For those of you unfamiliar with the hissy fit going on over at Digg the past couple weeks, I point you to Tamar Weinberg's handy recap. In a nut shell, Kevin Rose (Digg founder who really needs to be featured on this site) announced some algorithm changes on Digg, top diggers complained and planned a Digg boycott, Kevin and Jay Adelson (CEO of Digg) crappily addressed user complaints in a chat room, the top diggers were all "omg they acknowledge our existence," and all was well.
Or not. This new algorithm sucks. Supposedly, the algorithm is supposed to "get a more diverse number of people to Digg the stories on upcoming." It was also supposed to give new diggers or those of us who don't have "power accounts" a fighting chance to make it to the home page instead of the almighty, all powerful top diggers who freakin' dominate all the time. (I direct your attention to virtually any instance where some poor unknown sap gets submission blocked by a power digger who gets the exact same story on the home page because he has a legion of die-hard fans following his every move.)
The algorithm sounds promising, yet it's supremely lame. What took a digger like Tamar around 100 to 120 diggs to get to the home page (a number that had been steadily climbing the more popular she got) was now taking her well over 200. A less "powerful" but still successful (28% popular ratio) digger submitted a story titled "The 15 Greatest Spaceships of All Time" (clearly a diggworthy topic, if only for the nerdtastic discussion that will inevitably take place in the comments), and after 24 hours it had over 170 diggs and still hadn't made the home page. The comments made it seem like it wasn't getting hit with too many buries. Currently the post is dead at around 230 diggs, gathering dust and refusing to tip over to the home page.
Okay, what about unpopular diggers? Us lowly folks who read and comment but have never been successful in getting stories to the home page? Well, let's take my profile as an example. I've been a member of Digg since March 2006. I'm fairly good at leaving snarky comments that get a lot of thumbs on stories, but I've only submitted 8 stories to Digg, and none of them have hit popular. My best submission was a whopping 25 diggs. Clearly this algorithm change would benefit an Average Joe like me, right?
I submitted a picture to Digg earlier this week. I took the photo at a Brooks outlet store I went to over the weekend. Brooks is a running gear store, and they were having a big sale (2 for 1s, 50% off, etc). I saw this "deal" for "runderwear" (running underwear), laughed like a fool, and snapped a picture with my phone. I talked to some power diggers I know, and they suggested I submit the image to Digg myself because with the new algo change, I actually had a better chance at making the home page with fewer diggs than they would. I wrote up a decent enough title and description, submitted it to "offbeat sports," clearly a less popular category, and waited.
It got 72 diggs within 24 hours but didn't get promoted. I didn't game Digg for votes (only 8 people on my friends list dugg the story, and I didn't know most of the other folks), the comments in the thread weren't of the typical "This is lame, wtf" caliber, and, looking at my submission history, this story did far better than any story I had ever submitted. You'd think that the new algo would be friendly to a story that received over 70 diggs and was submitted by someone who had submitted less than 10 stories in the past two years, right? Guess not.
I don't know if this algo change is supposed to prevent gaming or what, but it really seems to be punishing both the hardcore Digg lovers who made the site into what it is today (e.g., Tamar and other power diggers) and more casual users like myself who see stories hitting the home page with between 30 and 250 diggs and wonder why their submission didn't make it. And honestly, isn't the whole point of having a "Friends" feature on Digg is so that your friends can see what you're digging and maybe digg the same story? Why would you then punish submitters and say, "Well, actually, you need to have more diverse votes."
I have a tolerate/hate relationship with Digg that has been veering steadily into the "hate" column. Unlike many other SEOs, I mostly use Digg as an entertainment medium. We don't have any clients with social media campaigns, and it's been a while since anything on SEOmoz has gained traction on Digg. I smile when I see Arrested Development references in the comments, roll my eyes when I see Family Guy references, and digg every Wednesday's Zero Punctuation review. When this entertainment site (I'll throw some quotation marks around the words news site, since it's kind of like a legit news site's dumber but more popular brother) makes a casual user like myself exasperated with things like B.S. algorithms, inexplicable user bans, spammy Shout features, and other changes of the numbskullery variety, I can only imagine how the top diggers and early adopters feel.
A word of advice to Digg (and to anyone with a website, really): don't piss off your users. They are what make your site what it is today. If we were to do something to alienate our community here, you guys would abandon ship and we'd be a nothing site. It doesn't matter if you're an Amazon.com, an SEOmoz, or a simple little knitting forum. Never, ever forget that without your users, your diehard fans, your community members, you are nothing. Listen to your users, roll out features they're clamoring for, make compromises here and there, politely turn down suggestions, do all of these things. Just acknowledge them. Make them understand that they're valued and that you owe your site's success to folks like them.
Can you dig(g) it? I hope so.
Digg's New Algorithm is The Suck
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The author's views are entirely his or her own (excluding the unlikely event of hypnosis) and may not always reflect the views of Moz.
I love each and everyone of you, but I am very very disappointed.
It is inconceivable to me that a conversation about "runderwear" has gone on this long without even one Scooby-Doo reference.
"Ruh Ohh, Shaggy craped his runderwear"
Come on people, step it up a notch, get with the program.
I'm reporting you for blatant thumbbait.
Pat - You thumbaiting cheap shit bastard! Thumbs up! Damn, you're good. And Jane - what the hell? 2 minutes later you respond. Jeez. You're all over it.
LOL...this is the best conversation ever because of this :
Rebecca : "Runderwear is made of that performance, sweat wicking fabric vs. soggy ol' cotton."
Pat : "Ruh Ohh, Shaggy craped his runderwear"
And finally the definition of "crape" :
Crape (an Anglicized version of the Fr. crêpe [1]) is a silk fabric of a gauzy texture, having a peculiar crisp or crimpy appearance.
It all makes sense, scoobydoo invented runderwear.
Dear Lord, I just involuntarily spit out a mouth full of bourbon.
I kneel before you, Pat.
Big Tequila -
I didn't know you were Catholic. I mean - maybe I'm mistaken, but to the best of my knowledge, Catholic's are the only ones that would actually say a prayer over a lost mouthful of bourbon.
How do I know, you ask? Well, let's see, where do I start.
My father - Joseph Thomas Maguire - 2 years in seminary, quit because he was screwing around with my mom, retied NYFD Lieutenant
Mother - Veronica Kelleher - raised in a convent with two sisters (one is a nun)
Sisters - Maureen Denise, Kathleen Patrice, Eileen Therese
Brother - Michael
So, there you have it. Irish Catholic, NY family - and we pray over spilt Bourbon as well.
Okay - where else can this conversation go?
Well, I believe in the strict separation of church and moz...but I can't say you're way off base there.
I went to a Catholic school and spent a good part of my youth convinced by the church pastor that I would be a priest when I grew up. Oh, I could tell you some stories...but I think those are better saved for dimly lit barrooms.
And I think spilt bourbon is a shame no matter who your chosen deity.
I just have to say, I just decided to read this post (I'm home alone at 10:30 on a Friday night...the sadness), and it really cheered me up. The post itself was pretty good, but what really did it for me was to see the discussion happening here in the comments regarding super athletic underwear. That's when you know you have something special - I love you guys. I'm man enough to admit it brought a tear to my eye.
I swear it wasn't the bourbon...
On a more serious note (you know; one that actually relates to the story :P ) I once had a story go hot (2155) from an account that had only ever submitted four stories. Three of them failed miserably. The second-most-dugg piece has 26 votes.
This said, I gamed the crap out of it. Out of the 70-or-so diggs it took to go hot, I knew about 30 of the people. I don't feel bad about that. I didn't know the other 2125 people.
Phenomenal, phenomenal rant. My favorite moz post to-date of 2008! :D Well-reasoned and hilarious.
Sorry to be unprofessional here but all this complaining about Digg's algorithm doesn't make much sense to me.
Disclaimer: No I'm not a digg power user, have a client that has been on the homepage over 40 times and have hit the homepage 30+ times with my own profile
Argument 1: Takes too many Digg's for the top users. So its taking 100-200+ diggs, and? They are still making the homepage a lot of the time, I think that it's obviously pissing off the power users because they want more stories to add to their count but it would piss off many more users if there was 3 people on the homepage every day
Argument 2: New users can't actually hit the homepage? RUBBISH. I had to start a new account due to login issues (have a new IP). 3 of the last 5 stories I submitted made the homepage.
Argument 3: Digg isn't listening to it's users
That's correct, and something I've complained about myself but I certainly don't think the algorithm sucks.This is just my opinion, I know Muhammad, Reg (maybe even Tamar) will disagree with me here but it's all my personal experience.
The moment the digg users forced the site owners to knowingly ignore a legal threat (that DVD numbers thing) I decided that it, and its users, would end up getting what it/they deserved eventually.
You're VERY right that one should always remember the users but people should also remember that democracy is basically Latin for mob rule.
Great post Rebecca,
As for the dirty underwear comments... Did anyone else hear that Microsoft is buying Yahoo?
Yes, and for some reason Rebecca chose to compare that to how she'd feel if she learned that my parents were getting divorced. It must be Really Weird Analogy Day in Becca-Land.
"Really Weird Analogy Day in Becca-Land"
Well, if you ever decide to do a regular Saturday post.
How bizarre. Here I am reading a rant and I'm actually enjoying it. Usually I hate rants - unless I can really relate. This one should have been the pits, being another "Digg rant" and all.
And it just struck me, not to blow smoke or anything, but you're a pretty effing good writer Rebecca. I mean, I know you know that, but seriously. That was a good read."Snarky comments, Average Joe, old lesbians link, numbskullery" - all in one post. Wow.
I think I'm gonna go digg your dirty runderwear. Nice job.
Haha, you're not the first person to refer to it as my dirty runderwear. It's not! It's not! :D
No, of course, I knew that. But I'm just curious, why are you selling your dirty runderwear?
And he even called it a nice job :)
Seriously tho... Digg... it's a soon to be irrelevant website - surely?
Sphunn here: https://sphinn.com/story/26446. I saw Rebecca speak @ SMX Social, so I had the good fortune reading this post "hearing" her voice. I hope that doesn't sound creepy :) .
Great post. You gotta' FIGHT for your algorithm.
Oh great! Now everyone in SEO gets a chance to take Rebecca's Dirty Runderwear for a Sphinn. What's this world coming to?!
Just to make it easier AimClear - Folks, you can Sphinn Rebecca's Dirty, Stinky, Used Runderwear here.
It's Friday. I should be at happy hour, yet here I am promoting Rebecca's dirty runderwear.
Rebecca - is this the reason you decided to do the triathalon thingy? So you can sell a pair of your celebrity blogger dirty runderwear every week?
I've heard so much of Digg recently and long efore that... Being a search marketer for a long time, I dared to join Digg just a few days ago and have failed to be active there. Most often I just can't make myself to comment... neither did I have time (and desire) to figure their algorithm...
Is the best way to describe my attitude to the place :)
Epic old lesbians take. And, yes, Digg made yet another disastrous product decision. Snarky submissions aside, the delay factor is such that it's an unusable news source.
This post is a great piece of writing. Very rarely am I so entertained by an SEO blog entry ..
" 'The 15 Greatest Spaceships of All Time' clearly a diggworthy topic, if only for the nerdtastic discussion that will inevitably take place in the comments)"
Not only does the new alogorithm suck, but, the fact that the Digg crew doesn't seem to care about it is ridiculous. Check out my blog post for my take on the story, but i just find Digg to be a sinking ship.
Don't be modest, Tony! Share a link. :)
https://tonyadam.com/blog/digg-revolt-diggs-dependancy-on-its-users-nears-addiction/
I think this is what Tony was talking about (Got the link from his profile)
To me Digg is just a narrow source of finding popular information. Reason being, no matter how digg worthy my content is, when it comes to using it as a marketing tool, I find it actually hard to get even any where near the homepage, as it is so much dominated by guys who are the member of 'let's dig each other' community. And I dont think I qualify to their membership.
So I Digg, only when I can't Google !
Interesting discussion. Any idea on how to get listed on the first page of Digg. :)
yes....digg is a very essential tool for me ........and it should be more favorable from users point of view :)
I've noticed a lot of contingency based on the amound of friends you have. That seems to raise your threshold pretty high regardless of your history of making stories go popular...which is complete bullshit mind you.
So the new power accounts are the week old accounts with no friends. Forget building up your power accounts. Just get new IPs and new accounts...GHEYY!
I totally agree that Digg is for my daily dose of entertainment!
After reading the complete post, i thought i would be seeing all digg supporting or against digg comments but Rebecca's runderwear has been more demanding lol ;)
btw this algo might really be helpful for people who usually are not that active in that site, but bad for those power diggers who have been adding good stories since a lot of time.
Dugg
It would be a brilliant mouthful of irony if we got this to frontpage.
I bet it won't.
Someone will need to explain to me the difference between regular underwear and running underwear.
No, I will not google it, I want someone here to explain it.
Runderwear is made of that performance, sweat wicking fabric vs. soggy ol' cotton. It's less likely to chafe and won't give you miserable soggy bottom syndrome.
Christ, what on earth is going on here?
What? He asked!
Jane,
I see you haven't taken Rebecca's stinky runderwear for a Sphinn yet. What's the matter - you too good for Rebecca's used runderwear?
Err... Well, since you asked so nicely...
Useful, but I would have added some time released capsules with fleas in them or something to help you keep up the pace.
"...less likely to chafe...miserable soggy bottom syndrome" ...this thread is starting to show some real potential if someone decides to run with it.
You know, many of us would just make the point be "I'm pissed off because of the time I've wasted on digg", but instead of the story being all about you, the moral is to take care of your users.
Pretty cool.
Couple of things, I have added the phrase "soggy bottom syndrome" to my vocabulary, thanks.
Second, I'm glad that the algorithm has changed. I'm getting a little overwhelmed with all the posts about "10 ways to get to the front page of digg", Google search
Terd.. I imagine Rand is loving the current change, based on his previous study of the top 100 digg users control 56% of Digg's Homepage content.
I love a good rant now and then, this one hit it spot on!
New algo does seem to screw over lots of legit users, but from their perspective - they gotta try something. Manipulating Digg is just such a big business, everyone wants in on it. I've seen some real crap content, crammed with ads on the front page.
And lots of digg's core users hate the SEO/Social-Media pros so much they'll probably welcome any change that's designed to combat them. They don't care much if one or two of their own posts gets buried. Let's face it, the people who care most about getting their posts to pg. 1 are the financially motivated ones. Lots of regular users probably don't give much of a crap if one of their posts gets buried.
So what is this post about ?
Digg's New Algorithm or Rebecca's dirty runderwear not being Digg ?
There is no algo, it is an even bigger scam then ever, a fairly new digger got 170 diggs the other day and never FP'd, where as a top digger - WebCure a digg friend of myne FP'd after 35 diggs. there is no algo it is just the stories that digg staff like on the homepage.
Gizmodo had 4 on the homepage at once the other day. This sucker is never off it: arstechnica.com
Smaller sites are totally being discriminated against.
I am starting a new bury brigade, PM me if you want to join.