Being nice doesn't have to mean you have an ulterior motive. But if it does, that's OK.
Ever since the Great Diet Coke Delivery that Charles made to my office, folks have been buzzing. I've watched the comments on Charles' YouMoz post regarding the whole adventure, and there are three schools of thought:
- I rewarded Charles with a link and mention because he did a really nice thing.
- Charles did a nice thing knowing it might result in a link and a mention.
- This is a savvy, cynical marketing 'stunt' that's worth repeating, and now SEOs the world over will be sending each other soft drinks.
I had no plans to comment on the whole discussion. I took the gesture at face value: A #1 with a strong dose of #2. It totally made my day, week and month.
But then I read a comment by Sha Menz that I found particularly telling:
Now I suppose anyone in the SEO world that receives a silly surprise in the mail from me is going to assume there is some sort of ulterior motive behind the gesture. :( Of course, that's just tough for me (and the people I will think twice about surprising in the future).
Is 'good' still 'good' when you do it expecting to be rewarded? I dunno. That's getting pretty deep for a bunch of marketing nerds. But here's why I wish everyone did more stuff like Charles, even if there is an ulterior motive:
Nice is nice
A genuinely 'nice', helpful act, performed with an ulterior motive, is just fine in the marketing world. That's called 'customer service' or 'networking' or 'being a mensch.' Zappos does it. Tiffany's does it. So does Virgin Airlines. It gets people talking. It also makes people happy.
If I can build my business and make people happy... wow. Just wow. That's a perfect marketing utopia. Read Guy Kawasaki's Enchantment if you want to learn just how perfect it can be.
Nice is currency
I'm not saying this cynically: Nice is a currency. It has value. That value declines if you overdo it. For example: The telephone customer service rep who keeps saying "I'm really sorry, I understand your frustration" after two hours' of frustrating troubleshooting. Yeah, I'm frustrated. You want to make me happy? Fix my cable!
Overuse reduces value.
Irrelevant niceness is spam
Send me a free pair of boxing gloves. You know what they are for me? Crap. So I remember you for sending me crap. AKA spam.
Those gloves might be the best on the market: State of the art boxing gloves that the best fighters would beg for. Doesn't matter. My only punches are verbal.
Send me a free pair of cycling gloves, when I already have three pairs? More crap.
These kinds of gifts fail, because I don't need them. If I don't need them, right then, then the chances I want them are pretty slim. And the odds that I'll appreciate the gift are slim, too.
Note that all of this assumes these gifts are sent to me from strangers. I'm not a completely ungrateful wretch. If a friend sent me boxing gloves, I might look at them strangely, but I'd still say 'thanks'.
Nice proves you listen
Most important, a truly 'nice' act proves you listen to me. The generic "I'm really sorry. I understand your frustration." fails because it's overused, and because the person saying it sounds like they're reading from a script. Which they are. They're not listening to me, at all. That reduces the niceness quotient to about zilch.
Charles showed up with Diet Coke. Just a short time after my panicked tweet. Clearly, he listened. He went out of his way, just a bit, to respond. Totally fantastic.
Nice is intrinsically rewarding
If you do a favor with an ulterior motive, don't whine if you get nothing in return. That's tacky. If the warm feeling you get from the favor itself (the intrinsic reward) isn't enough, then you shouldn't be taking action at all.
The extrinsic reward - the link, or the tip, or the new customer - is gravy. If you can't grasp that, stop.
Rules for genuine niceness
Go ahead and commit acts of kindness for strangers. Even if you do so expecting something in return. Just follow these rules:
- Be nice when appropriate. Don't slather it everywhere like cheap syrup on lousy pancakes.
- Do relevant nice things. Don't send crap to random people, or do favors no one wants.
- Listen first. The closer the match between the favor and the context, the more the recipient appreciates it. No match at all may mean you're a stalker.
- Do it for the intrinsic reward. Sure, expect something extrinsic. But ask yourself if the intrinsic reward (the warm glow you get) is enough. If it's not, you're making a mistake.
I'm a pretty cynical guy. But I do think marketing communications can make the world a far better place. One of the ways it can do that is by rewarding acts of kindness, good behavior, etc. informing the community. So be nice!
Oh Wow Ian. That was a surprise! :)
To be honest I thought long and hard about adding that comment because I didn't want to put a downer on Charles' post, but felt that the word "tactic" was featuring a little heavily in the comments.
Of course your assessment is spot on ... doing nice things can certainly bring rewards as a marketer and I have no problem with that as long as it is not ever based on any kind of deception.
From my own point of view, the primary motivation for doing nice things is fairly simple - it's really just bloody good FUN!
-Sha
It was a great, great comment, and it really got me thinking. The in/extrinisic discussion's been going on for a long time - I remember dicsussing it in Sociology, then Political Science, then Philosophy, in college mumblemumble years ago.
... what comes around...goes around. It's not rocket science. Happy new year x
Not just marketing tactic, it's a way of life. And when it's truly done without ulterior motives, that's ironically when it delivers the most in return. Many of my clients became my clients simply because I reached out and did something nice and unexpected to help them, and I did it without the expectation of anything in return other than knowing a new person.
I met Charles here in Seattle shortly after the diet Coke incident, and it was pretty clear that he really wasn't expecting all the things that ensued. Certainly a new connection and maybe a link eventually, but it was clear from the way he told the story that at the end of the day, he would have been happy knowing that he had made someone's day remarkable.
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For people that have trouble with being nice and conversational, don't feel bad, it's a skill, not something you're born with. Pick up a copy of "How To Win Friends & Influence People" (sounds spammy but it's an excellent book on relationship skills) and absorb every detail. Then practice it. And quit thinking about the links - truly buy in to the concept of being nice and giving for the sake of being a better person and it'll be a lot more effective.
I'm glad someone said "eventually" as the extrinsic reward may not be instant - and that's an important thing to remember.
Ian rewarded Charles pretty much instantly, but if he hadn't done, he might've done something for him further down the line, whether it's a link or tweet at a later date, or the passing of work, etc.
Do nice things expecting that they may not pay off at all, but if you must, expect that it might not be immediate. That should be the 'nice' marketer's philosophy.
"Is 'good' still 'good' when you do it expecting to be rewarded?"
Awesome question Ian. Here's how I've recently attacked this idea myself:
Just do awesome stuff for the hell of it. Do it because you want to do something outstanding, and don't do it expecting a reward, because once you do, you're doing it for the entirely wrong reason.
Recently I've been giving email shout outs to all of my active commentors on my blog to say "thanks". I've asked if any of them needed anything from me, whether it's an answer to a question or some advice.
I wasn't expecting anything in return, but I got something anyways. I got an offer to do link building for one of my readers that I highly respect, and even though I couldn't take him on, it was still awesome to know that people do reward the little things. The point is I wasn't expecting this, but it was a nice suprise. The awesome feeling I got was not from expecting it, but rather from not expecting it. Rewards aren't as great when you expect to get them.
You know why Charles was so pumped? He wasn't expecting anything more than a "thank you!".
I think once you get in the mindset of "I'm doing this so I can get something out of it", then you need rethink why you're doing it. I know we get caught up in what we might get in return (we are marketers of course), but you have to be a little more down to earth and understand these awesome stories like the one described above are not a 100% happens every time thing, but rather a nice treat for being awesome.
Would love to hear anyone's feedback on this!
Yup. And by the way, I really enjoyed telling the story, and using it as an example. It's been a blast.
I agree. The point of life (marketing, work, relationships) is not to get, but to give. If everyone had that mentality we probably wouldn't ever need to worry about getting, because everyone would be giving.
It's very easy to focus on the results of things, rather than what was given (or the work that was put in) before the result came about. If we focus more on the work we put into things we'll probably be much happier than we would if we fous on the results, because it's more likely that there won't be an immediate "result".
A great example of people being 'fake nice' are the comments left here on the SEOmoz blog.
Sorry to be a buzzkillington, but its true. I see the same people everyday commenting on how much they love the posts. Why? Is it just to show how much they value and love every blog post on SEOmoz? maybe, but its most likey down to the fact that they receive a little more attention after every comment they make, (the extrinsic reward).
Makes you think. Making 'friends' with others in the SEO community, can you really call them friends? or are they just all after some of that sweet extrinsic reward?
Nice comment!
(kidding)
I think you're 150% right, if that's possible. It drives me crazy to see folks posting totally superficial comments all over the web in hopes of accumulating links, or points, or something. That's not 'nice'. It's spam, or pollution, or whatever you want to call it.
I disagree. If somebody comments every blog post and finds it great - why not? It's his / her concern. There are more important issues to deal with like complaining regarding that. I never read a comment like: "This is a great post. Can you link to my website?" Then it's probably fake. And if building a relationship with commenting on blog posts is working some day - wow, than this is great. Good job! If it's not working - well the world is still turning. If I want to be part of the community and like the blog posts and I don't find the time to write more than 2 sentences - why not? Perhaps it's just nice.
@RedKing, I used to use the username MagentoWebDeveloper in hopes that someone on SEOMoz would need my services. I got several people needing my help. I had no shame promoting myself because I contribute a lot to the Q&A forums and I am a subscriber.
SEOmoz is a great way to know what's going on in the search world. It's not about SEO, it's about internet marketing. I don't think anyone here would be a real "friend", but SEOmoz is all I have b/c in my city (San Diego, California), it's not as if being an internet marketer is as popular as being an accountant. And the ones who are internet marketers who are on my level own their own companies.
I requested a feature for the SEOmoz webapp to become a little more like facebook whereby I can have "friends"; like a social SEOmoz, but only for subscribers. I wish that could happen so I can make some "real" SEO friends who I can have a stinking beer with! But for now all I have is SEOmoz.
Unfortunately, many might be commenting here on SEOmoz because they're trying to reach 200 MozPoints: the dofollow link on their profile. 'Niceness' for the extrinsic reward.
Fortunately, there's an easy way to detect those guys: those who stop commenting at 201 and never comment again. However, those who continue to comment are probably doing so because they genuinely want to (all other ulterior motives notwithstanding). :-)
How about simply doing the right things for the right reasons?
That's exactly what I'm talking about. The 'right reasons', though, can mean a lot of things. It's a big philosophical discussion that'll be going on long after we're all gone.
I think that the right reasons can include "This is a nice thing to do, plus this person may then know who I am," if the right thing really is 'right', and not some knee-jerk, semi-automated favor spam.
What a great post -- especially since it's a responce to an equally great post.
I particularly like point #4. The intrinsic value has to be enough reward. Otherwise, a nice act might not only fail as a marketing tactic, but it might backfire on whatever relationship you have (or want to develop).
Totally agree. I had a similar thought this morning about an apology. A family member apologized for "snapping" at me. When my response was "It's OK, I am kind of used to it", the apology was instantly rescinded. My first thought was "You weren't really sorry then". An apology or a nice action is only "good" when it is done regardless of a positive response by the other party.
I love this! Great breakdown of the "nice" factor.
I had done a sort of off-the-cuff, impromptu site audit a few months ago and one of the people involved with the site sent me a huge box of cookies. I didn't know at the time that she was CEO of a food company. She didn't know that I would tweet and FB about her generosity. Sometimes nice is just... NICE! This is why I love the SEO community - there are so many giving, genuinely nice people.
Exactly. And there's no reason whatsoever we can't reward nice gestures when we see 'em, either.
I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy now :)
Of course being nice is a marketing tactic. Not just on the web but in life. IMO life is all about marketing one way or another and a little sugar goes a long way.
Nothing wrong with rewarding nice behavior.
Giving someone a Diet Coke doesn't matter all that much as an item. It is the context and timing. That same context and timing is what ideas like Newsjacking from David Meerman Scott are all about. It isn't that we should now go around giving gifts to the right people at the right time, but rather look for opportunities that create a good story. The story isn't for anyone else, it is for you. It is so your life will be full of these stories where you take a chance and connect with other people. It isn't for the marketing, it isn't so you get a slew of links and traffic to your site. That is a huge side benefit that shouldn't be expected as already pointed out in the post. It is making an off-beat connection that is fun. Try reading Born to Run by Christopher McDougall. These runners go 100 miles plus but they do it for the fun of it. If you try to mimic the Chia Seed drink, the shoes, and their daily routine, you will improve your own running ability but miss the key part, the joy of running. When you run for the joy, the connections with other dedicated runners, you build upon stories that books are made of.
Hey Ian Lurie excellent post! I think you had given us the whole breaknown of nice , describing it's all important gestures which would really helped us a lot. I would like to give thanks for this amazing post that helps us to know more about the "nice gestures" & it can be used in different situations depending on the person to person.
Interesting take on it and I hadn't thought about in terms of being nice - but that is exactly whatg you need to be to make a business work. Business is all about gaining someone's trust and making them like you enough to do business with you, it's slightly trickier on the internet but overall it's still the same message - like me, trust me, you can do business with me.
I'm just glad you didn't title this "What is the RoI of Nice"!
In an industry that revolves around communication and where there is a genuine sense of community between practitioners, I feel there is a lot more value to being nice than just a warm fuzzy feeling on your insides. It goes to trust, it goes to reputation and to relationships, whether personal, professional or a bridge between the two.
All these comments about a "generic" topic like this prove that "be virtuous" in the Seo world is not a given!
In SEO Community, it is always can be called as information sharing. Real friends for information sharing.
There a more than enough comapnies that should read this article.
A lot of companies have employees who are 'nice' because they have to be, but do not really mean it.
Being nice work better then just holding on to 'Customer is King'.
ps. Dont know if 'customer is king' is used over the world. I know it is used in the Netherlands: 'Klant is Koning'
We have a slogan here. "Kill them with kindness." That's basically how Kleinpeter Photography was started, & how it has continued to be a successful photography studio 35+ years later. It's a philosophy we take into our marketing campaigns as well. It's often all about relationships, right?
I recently read the coke post so I was very glad to see you posted your response. I agree, be nice and don't do it for a reward.
Ulterior motives or not, being nice plays to everyone's satisfaction and happiness, such is human frailty. Having worked in different frontlines from sales to customer service, there is a fine line to be observed between intrinsically rewarding to playing Santa Claus - - - the degree of approriateness. Then one has to live with the results - some work, some don't.
I think that being nice is an excellent marketing tactic. We should be not only nice, but also very polite and well-brought-up
Being well brought up is a little outwith the individual's control!
Excellent post, and excellent conclusions. At the end fo the day, it's better to be nice with expectations than to be apathetic. But is is OK that we need guidelines for "being nice" these days?
Being nice is an act of kindness. There were nice comments and some are out of the line but i guess everyone's entitled of their own opinions whether it's nice or not. But overall this is a super nice post which explained a detailed kinds of nice on the seo world.:)
Totally wonderful post. A very similar, and in my opinion even better concept is used in this post. I agree with you “ Nice is currency” .And I think Nice is a one type of marketing tactics.
The diminishing returns of niceness is an interesting concept. Can it measured or charted like other metrics? lol No, I suppose you're right, the true vaue is in the determined in the heart.
Happy holidays, all.
I agree to most of this article, but... If I happen to know that you are into bicycling and send you a pair of bike gloves, you say the gift is "crap" because you already have several pairs. So am I supposed to conduct an inventory of your possessions before sending you what I think is a thoughtful gift based on the little I happen to know about you? Even if I had a dozen pairs of bike gloves and received another pair as a gift, I would still appreciate the effort. It's sad that it would do the opposite for you.
That may not have been the best example. I'd always appreciate someone trying to go the extra mile. But a little thought, and a little research, can turn a small gesture into something really memorable. That's what I'm getting at.
There's enough waste in the world. I hate to add to it.
Thanks Ian for this.
I sincerely believe that when we plant good seeds now and we will reap a harvest of good fruits either in the near or distant future. Like I said before, I am a firm believer that, true giving brings joy to one’s whole being. That in itself is already rewarding. :) Avoid anything evil because its consequence is evil and it’s unavoidable.
And I truly agree with you, that let's all be nice to one another, genuinely nice, because we all can make the world a better place.
Merry Christmas everyone!
"Irrelvant niceness is spam". There are few truer statements. And, if you really think about it, this statement could apply to everyday life. It's aweful "spammy" when people come up to you asking "How was your weekend" when they don't talk with you regularly--and clearly don't care. Irrelvant niceness.
If someone really cared, they'd ask "What did you do this weekend?" Simple word choice, but it makes a difference. As a link builder, I try to avoid overly nice or fake terminalolgy in my outreach emails--such as "Sincere Regards" or "Warm Regards." It's insincere and the favorite tactic of spammers trying to feign value.
This was a haphazard (half thoughtout) rant, but hopefully it makes sense. Thanks for adding clarity to my own thoughts :)
Great way to apply this idea of "Irrelevant Niceness" to link building Cleo!
I think you hit the nail on the head - either care, or don't care at all. There's no middle. Spammers go for the middle by saying "warm regards" (as you said), but no one would actually say this to someone they cared about. At the same time, it's showing they care a little bit, but only for what's in it for you (they're trying to be formal to get what they want). Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to get at.
Cool topic to discuss!
Kinda fits the currency idea, too. If, every time I go to buy groceries, the person at the register says "How are you?" in a neutral voice, and I answer "Fine thanks, and you?" in an equally neutral voice, and then they reply "Good thanks." that entire exchange starts to lose value. It's gone from genuinely caring to a hard-coded, near-Pavlovian response with no value.
So yeah, when someone I've never met, who calls me "Lan Lurie" and says they just linked to me, signs their e-mail with "Keep up the good work!" I question their motives and interest.
This comment is so good and full of intelligent. Your blog, [insert blog], is my favorite of all blogs. I read it when I buy Canadian Viagra at www.supercanadianviagraspam.com.
;)
The other day, the clerk at a Halloween store (I guess it was the other month) said "Were you able to find everything ok?" and, for once, I wasn't. I had had a terrible time finding some streamers that were high up on a shelf - I couldn't get an employee, they wouldn't let me use the ladder (someone came out to tell me not to use it but then didn't help me), and I had a toddler to juggle. So, I said "No" and started explaining what I needed. She immediately ignored me and went on as if I'd said "Yes". If you don't want to know, don't f-ing ask me. All that faux goodwill disappeared in an instant and I'll never go back to that store.
I think doing nice things for people you want a favor from is just piloite. It's more spammy to ask someone for a favor (ie a link) and not do anything nice for them. IMO, someone who takes the time to be courtious is more deserving of a favor.
I agree with your point ... Everything in a limit is always healthy and same implies to being nice! And as far as marketing tactics are concern it’s quite an old thing for people/companies to be extra sweet with their fellows/clients, I mean take coupons or special offers of Christmas as an example. Aren’t these gestures of being nice and making us like them more. And as far as that coke thing is concerned, those rude comments are just jealous because they didn’t get any of it ...lolz (just kidding no offence people). In short I loved your post it is very much useful :)
Good post. I think intent is huge. I like people engaging in community-centric, nice behavior. I understand ulterior motives are sometimes present, but hopefully, not the impetus for a nice act in the first place. For instance, if I'm dating a girl with a single friend, and my friend, being savvy about the single girl, suddenly wants to hang out with me a bit more than often, hoping to meet the single girl i the process, it's understandable. My friend just wants to meet someone and use me for some leverage.
However, if I build a lot of followers on Twitter, and a guy from high school I hardly spoke with, private messages me, whips out some half-baked memory of us from yesteryear, inserts a few smily faces and "ha ha"s, asking to market his pyramid scheme, my internalization and acquiesce to such a request will be very different.
Intent is often more tansparent than people with ulterior motives realize.
Nice is good but there is an error in this post describing nice with an ulterior motive. You say that's being a mensch. No, it's not. The mensch is exactly the opposite of your description.
The essence of the term mensch is someone who is nice without an ulterior motive. Otherwise, that person is not a mensch...just an ordinary self aggrandizer.
Being nice is a standout and says so much about character.
Actually, 'mensch' means 'a person with integrity'. But we can disagree on this one, I think :)
NIce comments on Nice Factors. Though the discusstion going on for quite sometime now.
this is kindoff old news. Go listen or read Gary Vaynerchucks stuff...
Nice
The reward for being nice is like the law of karma in action.
Being nice with an ulterior motive in mind is a deal not an act of kindness.
Too much of being nice or being nice with an ulterior motive will surely have its repercussions sooner or later.
I think it is beautifully portrayed in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Qc8ZbVcdHpg
Building the link of kindness.... How your good karma comes back to you.... True Link Building In Action
More than the action it is the intention that decides the result of the act.
Thanks for sharing this nice info with us.hoping more from u.