I got a call today from Ryan with Internet Advancement (link condom applied). According to Ryan our client, Avatar Financial, needs help ranking in the search engines - the meta tags and code are preventing us from doing well. I tried asking Ryan how familiar he was with the SEO industry in general - my guess is that he's just a salesman with a set dialogue who didn't get his coffee this morning. Here's what he told me:
- Meta tags are the keys to getting rankings
- Internet Advancement will submit my site bi-monthly to the 16 major search engines
- Internet Advancement will also submit my site monthly to 8500 minor search engines
- Link popularity is not (as I had presumed) a measurement of the links around the web pointing to a given site/page, but a point system based on how many minor search engines list you - if you don't submit to these sites, you can drop out of the big engines, too.
Ryan became infuriated when I explained that MSN doesn't index the meta keywords tag (something they told me during my interview with them) and that Google and Yahoo! don't consider the meta tags when determining where to rank a site. He got so frothy and yelly (just coined that one) that I had to hang up and call back, but not before making sure Ryan knew just how well Avatar was ranking for all the major keywords.
On my call back, I spoke to a much more mild-mannered gentleman - Shawn. I asked Shawn (somewhat deviously) to explain how Internet Advancement's services work and what I could expect in terms of pricing, etc. His rundown:
- Internet Advancement would do keyword research to tell me what phrases would be most important to target
- They'd add the important meta tags to my site because "search engine ranking is based primarily on meta tags and link popularity"
- They'd get my link popularity "points" up by submitting me to 16 major and 8500 minor search engines (same time frame as before - bi-monthly for majors, monthly for minors)
- They warranty in writing that we would achieve top 10 results at 6 of the 15 major search engines, which include AOL, Netscape, DMOZ, Overture and Hotbot (he couldn't remember all of the others off the top of his head)
- The price plans range from $89.95 - $129.95 with a down payment of $1100-$3000 depending on how much work was needed upfront
It was only after I bid him a good afternoon that I checked the results at Google for "Internet Advancement."
Apparently, they've had scuffles with the Washington State Attorney General's Office, which were resolved in August of 2004 with a minor fine (100+ complaints and they got off with a slap on the wrist). There's some ridiculous denials in this thread on the subject as well as some further examples of their misdeeds and another WebProWorld thread here on the mess they leave with their customers. And to top off their hypocrisy, their own site doesn't have meta tags on it.
All in all, this is one of the most despicable players I've seen in the spam/scam SEO game. It disgusts me to think of the thousands of dollars companies are paying every day to these clowns to get services that carry no business or marketing value whatsoever. These guys are going on my big time sh-t list.
Note: I don't blame the salesmen who call up companies - it's their job and they're paid to do it. It would be ridiculous of me to ask them all to up and quit. The nefarious source of the disinformation script they're given, however, should get the Traffic-Power treatment.
As a long time and now former employee of this company, these complaints I've read are true.This company has stolen from so many people that its not funny. They have employed many unethical sales people, people who promise the moon and then quit .This company targets online business owners primarily owners who purchase SMC, Stores Online, Volusion and Internet Speedway websites.The majority of the sites cannot benefit from optimization as they are template based sites.One year ago, Internet Advancement brought Dwayne Walker in as CEO. Do your research on this guy....most of the companies that he has run are now out of business. Mr. Walker proceeded to wreck havoc with the company. He raised the prices for the programs, raised the monthly fees and lowered the services from Top-10 search engines placement on the major search engines to Top-25 placement on 50 search engines, portals, etc.Mr. Walker started a 'Content' department that sold overpriced 'comprehensive content' to existing clients that were already paying for an SEO program. He also started a 'Targeted Traffic' department that was supposed to bring in select buyers from relevant sites such as 'marthastewart.com', cbssports.com', 'cardomain.com' as well as pay-per-click advertising from Google and Yahoo. Also, the sales people were instructed to praise something named the 'Partner Network'. What is a partner network ? I found out that this is a group of websites that are owned by Mr. Walker himself !! Go to mypetvideos.com, one of the 'partner' sites. Mr. Walker is collecting advertising from trusting people and that money is going directly into his pocket as he owns not only this 'partner' site, but hundreds more. No one buys from these sites. The 'Targeted Traffic' clients are being ripped off bigtime.Stay away from this company
Yeah, it was great listening to the conversation from the other room. Rand's voice seemed to alternate between amusement and pity, meanwhile the salesman seemed to alternate between apeshit crazy and apeshit crazy.
A judgement was passed down by the WA Attorney General in January forcing these guys to cease selling any services related to SEO or Optimization of sites. It appears that they have stopped selling SEO (namely their accelerator programs) to customers they pitch, however the services remain on the site, wording hasn't changed and their SEO services page is still up. If you call and attempt to sign up for any of them, they won't sell it to you, due to the AG order.
They now pitch content and digital marketing services solely and will recommend those packages rather than the ones that basically built their business in the beginning (accelerator programs).
The fact that they cannot sell SEO hasn't stopped them in any way. As I write this, various companies continue to pop-up with strikingly similar business practices (the deceptive ones). These companies sound an aweful lot like the folks at Internet Advancement in y opinion, even some of the testimonials, examples and references are the same, just different services. My belief is that they are either ex-employees of Internet Advancement or are trying to replicate their business model in an attempt to get rich quick.
Keep in mind, the companies I list only appear to practice business in similar ways, nothing is proven, but as I said, the call pitches, testimonials and referrences are either the same or similar.
Here's a list, hopefully we can add to it so others are aware...
IEplexus.com - The NEW Internet Advancement.
EasyPlacetoShop.com - Ex-employee of Internet Advancement.
SEOwholesale.com - Ex-employee of Internet Advancement.
FutureRanking.com - Ex-employee of Internet Advancement.
I am sure there are more out there. These are a few of the newer ones and some not so new knock-offs. The company featured in this article not only ripped off thousands, but they also trained hundreds of motivated, sleazy people a way to make money without actually doing anything. it has, and will continue to reap havoc in our industry as long as it continues. These guys are only one company like this, I am sure there are others who start this cycle, not knowing how many will be affected by it. Not just the clients the service (which is bad enough), but also the industry, the peope in it, and the ability to open a new reputable company without having to jump through a bunch of FTC and merchant account company hoops.
EasyPlacetoShop is run by former IA employee Ricky Romano...be fore warned.
I got a cold call from one of the IA people Friday night. I do my best to try to check things out before I lay out my cash or cc.
I read randfish's comments on Saturday morning, June 16th 2007.
I did the "view source" on Internet Advancement's site and saw no meta tag "keywords" or "description".
Later Saturday, i did the same thing, but now those meta tags appeared on the "company" page and "clients" page.
Maybe they're trying to cover their tracks ... or, maybe they're trying to dampen the effects of the criticism on various blogs / sites.
I appreciate the feedback left here.
Phillip
JUST got off the phone with Kris from Internet Adancement. This guy should go the decaf route. The enteir time he was frothing and talking (Wall of sound), I was reading all your comments. Thanks to all you folks I don't know but value your opinion. My small little hobby website was ready to go international and explode given their services, or so he says...doggie shirts going international? Guess they could www.rudepooch.com Think we will introduce a new phrase for In. Adancement (Advancement of what neurosis?) -- Carpy
It looks like Internet Advancement is having legal issues again
Thanks Aaron - updated the post to reflect the new information. Much appreciated!
This company is unbelievable IMHO. They have been relentlessly cold-calling our company. When we have answered, half the time there is no one on the line. The rest of the 6,000 times they've called and/or left messages, we haven't responded. Finally, today, in a fit of rage I answered the phone and just said "we're not interested" and hung up. About two minutes later, we get an email from the salesperson admonishing us for being rude, unprofessional, and being unaware of all of the errors with our site. If that's not the pot calling the kettle black. I then responded telling them to never call or email us again and, of course, he emails back.
I have never been convinced there isn't anything these companies can do that you can't do yourself.
Hello my name is lori of www.stainedglassa2z.com
I received several calls from Joel of internetadvancement.net anyway he was very convincing and I was very close to going into business with his company because he sounded like he knew what he was talking about. Because it was a lot of money I was told to do more research and I thank my lucky stars I ran across your blog. I could have been one of those idiots because I am new to understanding what I need to add to get my business seen....make some money.
WELCOME ABOARD!
ProposalThis is not an actual agreement.
Congratulations! Here is your Internet Marketing Service Agreement. Please follow these simple instructions:
If you are activating your agreement electronically:
1.Click on "Activate Your Service Agreement" at the bottom of Exhibit A.2.Print a copy of this agreement for your records.
If you are faxing your agreement:
1.Sign the Service Agreement (Page 2 of this document).2.Complete and sign a Credit Card Authorization Form (provided by sales associate).3.Initial Exhibit A.4.Fax all pages of the Services Agreement and Credit Card Authorization Form TODAY to 800 211-3506 or 425-869-6620.
After doing so, please send your email to [email protected], containing your fifteen keywords for our research, AND a 35-word description of your website.
That's it! Thank you again for allowing us to serve your Internet marketing needs. We look forward to elevating your web presence! Please call us toll-free at 888-420-8988 whenever we may answer a question or otherwise be of service.
In Success,
Joel KawamotoTelephone: (425) [email protected]
STAINED GLASS A2Zwww.stainedglassa2z.com5837 Saddleridge RDRoanoke, VA 24018(540) [email protected]
ACC 4RF SERVICES AGREEMENT
This Internet Marketing Services Agreement (the “Agreement”) effective as of May 15, 2007 (Effective Launch Date) is entered into by Stained Glass A2Z (the “Client”), a company with offices located at the address above, and Internet Advancement (the “Company”), with offices located at 11601 Willows Road, Suite 101, in Redmond, Washington 98052. Internet Advancement owns and operates a page on the World Wide Web, www.internetadvancement.com, through which Internet marketing services are provided, and the Client operates a page on the World Wide Web, www.stainedglassa2z.com, through which goods are sold. By signing below, the parties agree to the provision and use of the Company’s services upon the terms and conditions set forth herein.
A. STANDARD TERMS AND CONDITIONS.This Agreement includes and incorporates by reference the Standard Terms and Conditions set forth on Exhibit A (attached) and any other exhibits or schedules attached to this Agreement.B. INTERNET ADVANCEMENT SERVICES TO BE PROVIDED:B1. Optimization of Client’s web page domain or URL shown above, creating new source coding which focuses on Client’s “Key Words” and “Key Word Phrases”.B2. Implementation of Internet Advancement’s proprietary technology and services specifically designed to target the Client’s “Key Words” and “Key Word Phrases.”B3. Submission of Client’s web page, domain or URL shown above to 5,000 search sites, directories and our partner network.B4. Premium listing on 4GreatBuys.com. Client’s web page domain or URL shown above will receive two category placements on 4GreatBuys.com. Each listing will include a 35-word description of the Client’s web page domain or URL shown above.B5. Prepare and send ranking reports to Client listing the Client’s web page, domain or URL’s highest rankings on the major search sites. An initial report will be generated once the initial keyword optimization is completed followed by a second report generated upon reaching 120 days from the effective date of this agreement. Following the initial 120 days, ranking reports will continue to be generated every 30 days for the length of this agreement. The major sites shall consist of the top 50 search engines, Internet sites, Internet Portals, Internet Networks and our partner network as determined monthly by Internet Advancement.B6. Upon receipt of this signed agreement and successful processing of the initial payment, Internet Advancement will provide targeted traffic to the Client’s website with an average of 150 visits per month over 120 days, or 600 visits total. Traffic shall be generated from the top 50 search engines, Internet sites, Internet Portals as well as Internet Advancements partner network including such sites as 4GreatBuys.com.C. Price of Services. (i) Client shall pay a total service and administrative fee of $3,200.00. This $3,200.00 fee shall be paid as follows: an initial payment of $800.00 will be processed on the effective date of this Agreement, followed by 3 equal consecutive monthly payments of $800.00. Each of these remaining 3 payments will be processed in successive monthly increments from the effective date of this Agreement. (ii) The usual monthly submission fee of $149.95 shall begin 120 days from the effective date of this agreement and continue every 30 days thereafter, until this Agreement is terminated. Client understands and agrees that all Warranties and claims made by Company in this Agreement or any of the attachments thereto are completely contingent upon Company's receipt of successful on time payments from Client. Furthermore, Client agrees and gives authorization to Company or its assignees to process all payments on the Client's credit card or bank account used for all payments specified herein, according to the terms of this Agreement.D. Term and Termination. This Agreement shall commence on the Effective Date and continue until terminated as provided in section 5 of the Terms and Conditions.E. This Agreement may not be amended except in writing signed by both parties. Company will not accept, and will not sign this agreement unless client confirms that its terms are the exclusive terms to which the parties are bound.
Exhibit A: Standard Terms and Conditions
1. CERTAIN DEFINITIONS.
1.1 Effective Date means the date that this Agreement is signed as set forth on page 1.
1.2 Major Sites shall consist of the top 50 search sites, Internet Sites, Internet Portals and our partner network as determined monthly by Internet Advancement.
1.3 Payment Date means the date the initial $800 payment is received by the Company.
1.4 Initial Set–Up Period means 30 days after the Effective Date during which time keywords are researched, optimized and provided to Client. This also includes the initial submission set-up.
2. OBLIGATIONS OF CLIENT.
2.1 Optimized Source Code. It is the sole responsibility of the Client to install the optimized keywords, keyword phrases and source code on said Client website. Client must install the keywords, keyword phrases and optimized source code within 30 days of the effective date of this agreement or any and all warranties and refunds made by Company shall be null and void. Any alterations to the keywords, keyword phrases and optimized source code by Client, any third party, such as a webmaster, hosting company, etc during the effective period of this agreement will also void the warranties and refunds associated with this agreement. It is also the sole responsibility of the Client to monitor said website to ensure the accurate and consistent placement of the keywords, keyword phrases and/or source code provided by the Company.
2.2 Keywords. Client shall not change the Key Words or Key Word Phrases once they have been optimized without the knowledge and approval of Company’s Keyword Department in writing. If the Key Words or Key Word Phrases are changed by Client without the written approval of Company, all warranties and potential refunds made by Company shall be null and void. If the Client would like the Company to change any keywords, keyword phrases, Meta tags, URL, source code or any other parameter of website after 30 days, Client will be charged a fee for each change. If the Client would like the Company to change any keywords, keyword phrases, Meta tags, URL, source code or any other parameter of website after 30 days, Client will be charged a fee for each change.
2.3 Payments. Client understands and agrees that all Warranties and claims made by Company or Client in this Agreement or any of the attachments thereto are completely contingent upon Company’s receipt of successful on time payments.
2.4 Contact Information. Client shall inform Company of any changes in contact information, such as email address and phone number(s).
3. WARRANTY.
3.1 Warranty.
Company warrants that Client will obtain at least a top 25 placement on any 4 of Client’s “Key Words” or “Key Word Phrases” (determined via Company’s Optimization of same) on any 7 of the top 50 search sites, top 50 Internet Portal or top 50 Internet Sites within 120 days of the effective date of this agreement. Client shall not perform or allow (e.g. by a webmaster or hosting company) any changes to Company's optimized keywords, keyword phrases or source code once it has been inserted into Client's web page specified herein, nor shall Client perform or allow any additional standard submissions of said web page to any search sites, nor shall Client perform or allow Company's optimized source code to be inserted into any web page other than the page specified in this agreement, without the prior knowledge and approval of Company. Client shall not fail to perform (or prevent Company from performing) correct insertion of all of Company's optimized source code into the web page specified herein. Any such actions on the part of Client as described in this Section of this agreement shall void this warranty. It is the sole responsibility of the client to monitor said website to ensure the accurate and consistent placement of the source code provided by the Company.
3.2 Warranty Disclaimer.
Except as stated in this section 3, each party disclaims all warranties, expressed or implied, including without limitation any and all warranties or merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, title and non-infringement with respect to any technology or services used in performance of this agreement. Neither party warrants that its web page(s) will operate error-free or without interruption.
Internet Advancement, Inc. does not and can not warranty hits, clicks, traffic or sales other than the 600 visitors to be provided during the first 120 days of this agreement, as stated in B6 (above). We cannot warranty that someone will click on your site.
3.3 REFUND POLICY
If Company fails to meet the warranty as set forth in section 3.1, Company shall notify Client by email after 120 days of effective date that the promised results have not been achieved, and that the customer is entitled to a refund of up to 50% of the cost of the service and administrative fees that client has paid. Of this 50% potential refund, 25% (half) shall be determined by the achievement or failure to achieve the warranted search engine rankings. The actual amount of refund for the warranted search engine rankings shall be prorated based upon the actual percentage of rankings delivered. The remaining 25% (other half) contingent upon achievement or failure to achieve the warranted traffic/visitors to the web site (as stated in Section B6). The actual amount of refund for the warranted traffic/visitors shall be prorated based upon the actual percentage of traffic delivered. Said request for refund shall terminate Company's duty to provide services. In order to receive refund, Client must request refund within 30 days of receipt of email from Company. Furthermore, Client is only eligible for refund if Client has met the requirements of Section 2 herein (known as “Obligations of Client”).
Client may ONLY request the refund by:Email: [email protected] by mail (Internet Advancement, c/o Cancellations, 11601 Willows Road, Suite 101, Redmond, WA 98052), or by fax 425-869-6620, within the initial 6 month term of this Agreement.
4. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY.
4.1. Limitation of Liability. In no event will the total liability (whether in contract, tort or otherwise) of the Company in connection with this agreement exceed 50 percent of the total amount paid by Client to Company. Such 50% liability shall be calculated based on 25% (half) determined by the achievement or failure to achieve the warranted search engine rankings. The actual amount of Refund for the warranted search engine rankings shall be prorated based upon the actual percentage of search engine rankings delivered. The remaining 25% (other half) contingent upon achievement or failure to achieve the warranted traffic/visitors to the web site (as stated in Section B6). Neither party will be liable to the other for consequential, incidental, special or exemplary damages, even if the party has been warned of the possibility of such damages. The parties understand that this agreement has been negotiated in light of these limitations, and that the terms of this agreement would not have been possible but for this limitation.
5. Term and Termination.
5.1 Term. This Agreement will remain in effect for 120 days from the Effective Date. Thereafter, this Agreement will continue on a month-to-month basis until terminated. After the initial 120 day term, Client may terminate this agreement using any of the methods described in section 3.3, as of the end of the month in which such notice is received by Company in writing. After the initial 120 day term, the Company may terminate this Agreement upon thirty (30) days written notice to Client. After the initial 120 day term, the Company may terminate this Agreement without written notice to Client.
5.2 Effects of Termination. This Agreement may not be terminated within the first 120 days. The provisions of Sections 3.2, 4 and 5 will survive any expiration or termination of this Agreement.
5.3 All delinquent accounts will be assessed a $50.00 processing fee.
6. General.
6.1 Governing Law. This Agreement will be governed by State of Washington in the event of conflicts between the parties.
6.2 Assignments. The Company may assign this Agreement without the Client’s prior written consent. Nevertheless, this Agreement may be assigned without consent to an assignee that has acquired substantially all of a party’s stock or assets relating to the activities described in this Agreement.
I've been thinking I should ask some friends to link to this post with "Internet Advancement" as the anchor text so they don't rank for their own name. I only see a few links pointing their way.
Hi randfish,
I was approached by Internet Advance and decide to check them out on the internet and found your article.
I am new to SEO. I have a new website opened this March. Network solution designed the site and is doing the SEO "Top ten garantee" for me.
Also read an article about aging rule on Google, is that still effective?
Network solution said that it takes about 10 months or may be less for my new site to show up on the 1 or 2 page. Do you know if this company is legit?
Do you or anyone out there who read this know any good SEO company that I can use because I do not have the time to research and do it myself.
Thank you
Wesor
I put a link to this on my blog! I'm all for this site beating theirs in the rankings for searches on Internet Advancement if it saves more unsuspecting small business owners like me from being cheated out of their hard-earned money!
I'm not sure exactly what your point is of bashing Internet Advancement without having experienced the product. But, fair enough. Let me ask this:
* How do you recommend that companies improve their rankings on search engine rankings?
* How do metatags work?
* How can the company improve its services?
Instead of focussing on the negative, give a few suggestions. They probably aren't going to go out of business anytime soon since they seem to have survived the lawsuit from 2004.
It's finally over!!!
Between Amex crediting me for the first $400.00 and the dispute I filed with Amex for the second $400.00 yesterday and my letter to the Attorney General in Washington, they are finally backing off...It pays to be persistent.
I received a letter of apology from Allan somebody or other saying they will refund my $800.00 and he is sorry about the way my account was handled...
Meanwhile, I reported my credit card as lost yesterday and had Amex send me a new one overnight so IA can't continue to charge me.
If anyone out there is reading this, IA will tell you that it is their competion writing these blogs...Don't believe it!!
kjj apetsworld.com
Well they got me to but it sounds like they got me worse than most of you. I went with the accelerator 4 program which has an initial set up of $2400. I said I couldn’t afford $2400 at the time and said thanks for calling. Then they called back about a month later and said they could break up the setup fee into 10 payments of $240 a month for 10 months. I got so fed up in February with internet advancement that I started my own SEO. I’ve been getting pretty good at it and got several 1st page rankings on msn and yahoo for both keywords that internet advancement had and some others. About 2 weeks ago I got an email saying that “they” had achieved my rankings. They now say that I’m not only, not entitled to my 50% refund but now I owe them the rest of the setup fee. Is this legal? Because I didn’t have my lawyer go through the contract now I’m getting screwed! Something has got to be done about this company. What can we do other than piss and moan on a forum? Has anyone challenged IA and gotten their refund? Has anyone gotten charged this “extra” setup fee after they canceled? What can I do? Help! Please email me suggestions.
I am still waiting to hear from American Express about the first $400.00 charge...I sent them all the documentation and email copies. So far, they have not billed my credit card for a second payment...I have advise Amex that if they do, I will cancel my card.
If I were you, I would write to the Attorney General in the State of Washington: Rob McKenna
800 Fifth Ave #2000 South Seattle, WA 98104-3188
I filed on line and have received a letter that they are investigating the complaint...If you also write, it will help everyone else as well.
Meanwhile, IA keeps calling me and sending me emails---I have blocked them and don't take their calls.
LaurnX,
New to the forum and just had to contribute after seeing the last post.
The same thing happened to me also yesterday 4/24 by the same guy ...Chris Burks. It seemed a bit suspicious so I decided to do a Google search on Internet Advancement to see what was out there on this company.
Intersesting that your Voicemail ("...website is fantastic, everything works very well, however, I wanted to make you aware of a couple communication errors I found...these are hindering your exposure online ....") I wouldn't have remembered what the first words of the conversation were, but after reading your post ...that cued it up for me exactly!! He must have been reading it from a script.
I certainly do need more traffic to my site and could certainly use some ranking at Google, but couldn't quite understand how Internet Advancement could get more traffic with submissions to thousands of small search engines with there "proprietary software". As well, he said link exchanges were not good and would only dilute and/or pull away sales from my site by allowing customers to link to competitor pages.
I'm a do-it-yourselfer business, as I can't afford a legit "or not" SEO service. Is there a step-by-step guide to successfully get some sort of google ranking. The site is on top of the aol, msn and yahoo engines for the specified keywords, but doesn't get ranked at google. It has been submitted to google for over a year and they are aware of the site, but it just doesn't rank for the keywords necessary to get traffic for the products.
Any help certainly appreciated.
There is a Book SEO for Dummies. It explains everything very well, but SEO work takes a lot of time and that is why good companies can command the rates they do. Personally, I don't have the time to do it myself. Good luck! KJJ
I think that I am idiot # 5001..... THEY GOT ME!! for the first $333 anyway. (first payment of three =$999) Please somebody help. Give me another option than to give these people any more money. I too am a new website owner, tring everything to get my site out there and get some traffic. The PPC route is killing me, more and more money and still nothing. There has to be a someone out there who can help with this type of thing that's not just tring to rip you off... I am loosing all faith..... Is it even possible for a new site to be noticed by the search engines?? I would really appreciate any help and/or direction you could give. www.survivalgearsource.com Thank you,
Christine
I'd check out www.seomoz.org/beginners.php
Get other sites to link to your site; Here is another good resource: https://www.ericward.com/articles/primer.html. Participate on blogs and forums, especially where you can have a link to your site.
Also, I don't understand your links page: https://www.survivalgearsource.com/links_se.html. None of those seem to be hyperlinked (unless I am missing something). Are any or all of those sites linking back to you? According to yahoo! site explorer they aren't, but that's not 100% accurate.
There's lots that can be done, so keep learning and find an honest someone to team with.
Sorry, I see where they've been linked, I was reading inside of the paragraph expecting a link. My apologies.
They got me too! Within 3 days of them starting work on my site I was so disatisfied that I emailed and faxed a cancellation. I didn't hear from anyone and even called my "laison" who referred me to another phone number. I am disputing the intial $400.00 charge with American Express. Finally 3 days later I received a phone call from Alan Anderson telling me that they would collect their money even if it was through a collection agency. I filed a complaint with the Attorney Generals office in the state of Washington.
Meantime, I went back to Monster Commerce who originally updated my site and contracted them to do monthly SEO maintenance...They have been really good to work with, it's just that they are expensive---2X what I A charges each month...but I guess you get what you pay for and I got garbage from Internet Advancement.
could someone help me get my refund from internet advancement. I got suckered into their scam. They made head tags for my site with keywords I was not happy with I contacted them and went over the keywords and came to an agreement to change the headtag they sent me the new headtags to put on my site and then a month or so later claimed that I changed the original headtags and that voided my waranty. I just got billed another $299.99 from them and just got off the phone arguing with them trying to cancel and get my refund or atleast not bill the $300 Bucks they had just billed 15 minutes earlier, the only awnser i can get is that they would review my request to cancel. I am really P__ off about this this is no way to do business! When I have a problem with a customer on my website, I resolve the matter immediately and refund as per their request. I think this gives all E . business's bad reputations
Hi, I am in the same situation. I just cancelled my credit card they have on file to keep them from billing me again. I am reading this stuff on a Sunday night so I am unable to call them right now. I am really worried now. Please tell me what your status is now with this company and your cancelling. It would be nice to talk to another victim.... Thanks.
Cheffy,
Why did you feel the need to repeat yourself in TWO different post comments anyway? I dont know about others here, but I comprehended what you said in your first comment without needing any repetition or reviewing in the second comment.
Comparing IA to Google is just silly, same as the person above who compares them to Microsoft. The closest IA will get to Microsoft is being next to them in Redmond. As for Google, they'll never come close. When I thing about the click fraud suit(s) I think about how many people use Adwords and how many lawsuits they have had regarding click fraud. When I do the numbers I see Adwords customers being a lot higher than the lowly customer base of 5000 at IA (probably more like 500,000). Now one lawsuit out of half a million users is pretty good plus all the other tools they provide. Now lets look at IA, they have 5000 users with one major lawsuit and several other 'smaller' suits and offer NO other tools or services. Seems like a no-brainer.
I am sure IA does do some things to help, but so could my 93 yr old grandma if she wanted to learn how. It is not really about whether they help people or not, or how many clients they have currently, it's about the strategies used and the means by which the rankings are achieved compared to the cost of services. For what they charge I see no 'real' value in the services which are basically just meta tags and submissions.
I hear all this talk about how many clients they have successfully ranked and how many they have, but have never seen an example of this. Does your site rank? Why not leave the url so we can see for ourselves?
I will tell you the same I told abby...Instead of covering up for your company try finding a new job where you don't have to waste your time doing this every time you get some bad press or someone posts on their blog. Your time could be much better spent actually helping people to rank higher or whatever it is you guys do over there.
For the record, bad news. They did the usual trying to convince me that things may get better, what if we try this, etc. Keep in mind, I've been working with them since July of 2006 and it's now Feb of 2007. This is 7 months and $1,300 later and... no results, no traffic, etc. And, their suggestion is, why not wait to see what the results are on March 22nd? Anyway... My experience is that IA is totally self-serving and anything but business partners. That's my experience. I regert ever working with them.
Another dissatisfied Internet Advancement customer:
Let me share my story. I signed on with these guys over a year ago. What attracted me was the fact that they guaranteed 10 (or was it 20 or 30, I can't remember) first page placements on the top 12 search engines. I figured, hey, guarantees are good.
I got caught though. I accepted their recommended keywords. I was too busy to spend much time on this. Lo and behold, when the first month's report came out I had more than 10 first page placements. Most were on 3rd tier search engines and search terms that are used about 3 times a year. So, I think they just selected a bunch of terms where I was already on the first page. NOTE TO SELF: next time you hire an SEO, get a "before" performance report.
But I'm a patient person. I figured I'd give Internet Advancement a chance to work some magic. Well, after more than a year, my search engine performance reports actually got worse. So, I called in Dec 2006 to cancel. They said, "Give us 3 more months and you'll see it get better. We won't charge you the $99 monthly fee during those 3 months." I figured, what the hell, it'll give me a chance to find another SEO. Well, now they charged me the $99 monthly fee again. So, I called to say it's still not good. They told me the wouldn't give me my $99 back because I didn't call to cancel again.
I recommend you stay away from Internet Advancement. I wasted thousands on them. Please don't make my mistake. And, just to make sure this blog comes up on relevent searches, here are a few search terms to load up:
Internet Advancement sucks
Intenet Advancement customer reviews
Internet Advancement feedback reports
Have a client with an ecommerce site who is not doing well on search engine results. They contracted the services of a "SEO firm"(guess who). And out of 18 keywords only two have done well in following: MSN, Yahoo, Ask.com, All the Web, Altavista, AOL, Excite, IWon, Looksmart, Lycos, Wisenut, Netscape and Search. On Google, no show. Having read the importance Google places on incoming links to boost Page Rank, got into Google’s webmaster tools to see what I could find out. Looking at “Pages with external links” section, saw that 6 pages within site had an average of 68 external links. When I checked each link, found that the majority were for “shopping directory” sites - that all looked the same but had different url’s. At the bottom of each page the typical About , Products, Contact Us links could be found and when clicked, all were linked at the same page being seen at the moment. Only found one page where one of these links pointed to a site selling shopping cart and Internet marketing tools. Having installed the Google toolbar in my Mozilla browser, each one of these external link sites had a PR o 0/10
This is a reply to f2007 - Yes! I know just the directories you're talking about! Internet Advancement added my site to those directories as well and when I called to cancel my agreement with them, I told them I wanted my link removed from those IMMEDIATELY because they were probably dragging me down in the rankings. Google doesn't even recognize them as backlinks for my site. When I pointed out to Scott Duncan (the latest of many Internet Advancement reps playing musical chairs with my account) that these directories of theirs all have a Google PR of 0, he went on and on about how Google's PR is exactly the same as Alexa's ranking system and it only tracks the number of times a person actually types in your business name in the Google search bar and how it doesn't have any impact at all, yadda, yadda. I couldn't believe my ears. I'm a small business owner, not an SEO expert, but I have learned quite a bit about SEO lately (particularly since I realized Internet Advancement had scammed me) and while I understand there is some debate out there now about the relevance of the Google Page Rank system, I do know it isn't what Alexa's doing. I also know that while it's true it may not matter anymore whether a site has a PR of 1 or 10, a site that still has a PR of 0 is a red flag because it could mean Google's caught on to them and is penalizing them.
I saw a link for one of my competitors listed in some of these Internet Advancement directories and this competitor has fantastic rankings in Google, so I was shocked to think they could possibly be a client of Internet Advancement's. But when I clicked on it, I got a 404 error or something. It was then that I realized my competitor is NOT a client of Internet Advancement's - IA is just trying to make it look that way. They're counting on clients like me seeing it and thinking, "Wow! My competitor has great rankings...Internet Advancement's services must really work!" I guess they count on nobody actually clicking the link.
My suggestion is to check the post from 7/31 I think where I wrote the info for the Attorney General's Office in Seattle, WA...they are investigating them now.
I just got a voicemail from these folks. What fuels MY rage is the fact that this guy (Chris) sounded as if he was calling from my ISP, in a first person manner, as if he had ownership of my site...saying, and I quote: "...website is fantastic, everything works very well, however, I wanted to make you aware of a couple communication errors I found...these are hindering your exposure online ...."
So... beware folks! What a way to ensnare potential customers, by making them think there are "errors" or mistakes with their websites...which comes off very much like they are somehow authorized or from your ISP reporting these alleged issues!
I thought something sounded fishy about it, so I looked up the name and found this post AT THE TOP OF THE SEARCH ENGINE no less, and came here first! Just had to comment about it!
OK! This is where I just HAD to register for seomoz.org so I could jump in and respond to abbyparkavenue - who obviously works for Internet Advancement or is sleeping with someone who does. Unlike most of the those posting here, I'm not an SEO / SEM professional. But I AM one of those "poor companies" most of the other contributors to this thread feel sorry for because I indeed got scammed by Internet Advancement.
I am a small business owner....very small. It's just me: A work-at-home mother of three with no employees, no stock holders, no capital...all the money invested in my business is being charged to credit cards and I'm still in the red.
After nearly a year of trying out several shopping cart providers and having loads of bad luck with them and their incompetence (that's a whole 'nother blog people), I finally settled on Volusion. After reloading all of my products, data, etc. for what seemed like the upteenth time, I started thinking about SEO and investing in professional services, when - lo and behold - before I even had a chance to research anyone, Internet Advancement called ME.
Yep. I got cold-called. And here's the best part: "Dave" said they got my name from Volusion. "Really?" I asked, "I thought Volusion had their own SEO services." I was told indeed they do, but that Volusion had come to realize that their own SEO services weren't very effective and, therefore, they had contracted with Internet Advancement on a "trial" basis to see if IA could do a better job with SEO/SEM for their clients. I was told IA had already optimized hundreds of Volusion sites with great success and they knew all the "ins and outs" of the Volusion software and how best to optimize the HTML. And even better than their superior knowledge of Volusion's HTML was their "exclusive, proprietary technology" (his exact words) that made their services far more effective than any other SEO company out there. Of course, he wouldn't reveal to me what this "proprietary technology" was because then everyone would know about it and his company would no longer have the advantage. I have since learned that Volusion has not, in any way shape or form, partnered with Internet Advancement. On the contrary, Volusion is trying to build a legal case against them for making such claims.
I can't believe what a fool I was. I don't know whether to break out in tears or break something. I feel like doing both. Looking back on it now there were so many warning signs that I ignored that I almost feel like I deserved to be scammed.
Warning flag #1: When I answered the phone, he asked for "Marilyn" - which isn't my name and doesn't even remotely sound like my name. As I stated before, I am the sole proprietor of my business and I have NO employees, so who knows where he got "Marilyn" from. He told me "Marilyn" was listed as the business owner on the referral information sheet Volusion had given him, which probably is true. IA is probably paying someone inside Volusion for lists of new their new clients.
Warning flag #2: I spent almost an entire day running every keyword phrase for SEO services I could think of in Google to see where how well IA had managed to get themselves ranked. But IA didn't rank at all. I tried out dozens of keyword phrases and Internet Advancement never came up in ANY of my searches. But "Dave" had a great response for this when he called me back a few days later to pitch again: "We intentionally do NOT optimize our own site because we'd get too many unqualified leads that way and we want to approach only those companies we are confident we can get ranked high in the major search engines" ( I don't remember now if I actually searched on "Internet Advancement" - if I had maybe I would have seen this blog and saved myself a lot of misery).
Warning flag #3: I went into their website and tried to find a business similar to mine in their list of "happy clients." I couldn't find one. So I asked Dave if he could refer me to a similar business/site/client. He put me on hold for several minutes while he asked around the office but eventually came back on the line and said that, while they had had success with many clients with similar businesses, all of those other clients wished to remain anonymous.
Initially, I was quoted a $2,400 set up fee. Plus, after the four month "set up" or "optimization" period, an additional $179 a month to continue submitting my site to all the search engines and keep me in various assorted directories so I would have link popularity. And, of course, that super stealthy "proprietary technology" would be updated as needed for that monthly fee. But, because they didn't already have any businesses in my category to use as a referral, they offered to take half off the set-up fee if I agreed to let them use me as a referral.
So, I've paid out $1,200 so far and next week, that $179 monthly fee will kick in (but I'm going to cancel before that happens, of course).
Warning flag #4: After I signed up and they did the keyword research and emailed me the metatags, they used one of the keyword phrases twice (I'm given a quota of how many keyword phrases I can optimize around, of course, so what the ?$@?!). And I found other typos as well. My confidence in them started to dwindle after that. I mean, how much can they really care about the success of my website when they can't even be bothered to proofread their own work. But by this time, though, I'd already signed the contract, so I was screwed.
They said it would take a maximum of 120 days to "obtain at least a top 25 placement on 3 of Client's 'Key Words' or 'Key Word Phrases' on at least 5 of the top 50 search sites."
So where does my site rank after 120 days? It doesn't. Not only am I not in the top 25 for ANY of my keyword phrases, my site does not come up on ANY page in ANY search engine for ANY of my keyword phrases. The only keyword phrase my site comes up for is my business name. Other than that, as far as the search engines are concerned, my site does not exist.
Out of frustration one day, I clicked "view source" from my browser to take a look at the HTML for my home page to see if I could figure out what and where this "proprietary technology" was. I couldn't find anything. Then I went into the administration area for the Volusion software and took a peek at the metatags IA entered there. In there, I found an area Volusion provides for "experienced SEO professionals" where they can override the template HTML. It's totally blank. I thought that was interesting. If Internet Advancement was indeed using "proprietary technology" wouldn't this be the perfect place to put it? And yet it remains empty.
In less than a week, the 120-day "deadline" for them to fulfill their promises is up. Yes, they supposedly have a "warranty" in place where I will get half my money back, but I am not holding my breath. I have the warranty in writing, but I'm sure they'll find some loophole. I haven't messed with their metatags but, knowing now how they do business, I'm sure they'll find some way to weasel out of this.
So it's too late for me. That's $1,200 of money wasted that I didn't have to begin with. I still don't exist in the search engines and my business is still in the red. But I hope this blog reaches other potential victims and prevents them from making the same mistake I did.
Let's get 'em! Google bomb anyone?
Man, I wish that was still as doable as it used to be...
Hi, I am a former IA employee. The supervisors HIDE facts from the emplyees, degrade them and attempt to get them FIREDif they ask too many questions. The employees who can not sucessfully sale these packages are shuffled off into an office next door, Keyword research department and submissions where nobody has had any training in any of this...These are commissioned jobs / sales. High pressure is promoted. And emmployees are hammered about staying on a script and not sounding human. VERY poor customer service and lack of concern for the customer. Personally I had some kind of Hippy alchohalic supervisor , with a nervous disorder , chain smoker, hoveringover my desk and all sorts of games were played with me when I asked questions about SEO and etc. They kept telling me I DO NOT NEED TO KNOW. Do not talk about hte attorney genearls office and the same supervisor retorted at meWHY IS YOUR CUSTOMER ASKING ABOUT THE WARRANTY!!!?? DOn't tell them about the warranty? WHO is going to purchase anything 500.00 or more without checking out warantees? ETC? Personally , I think the supervisor was doing one of the bosses and got herself a cush cush position where she did not have to be on the phones. And She is one of the sources of customer anger and miscomunication here.
Just an insider opinion here.
The sales crew are not specialist in seo. Some may have some background , others are any guy off the street.
to get this job, no resume was needed. All I had to do was answer about 5 questions, showing that I know hwat email and web addresses are ....
Hi Rand,I wanted to update your readers on our new settlement with Internet Advancement. The agreement prohibits the company from selling search-engine optimization services to new customers and it provides for consumer refunds. There's a deadline - so act soon.
See news release at www.atg.wa.gov/2008internetadv.aspx.Thanks,Kristin AlexanderMedia Relations ManagerWashington Attorney General's Office
Excellent! Thank you for posting this information.
Just received a letter...Hand addressed envelope from Internet Advancement regarding my entitlement to a full refund of set up fees and any monthly fees paid as part of an agreed upon settlement with the AG in Washington State...
Hopefully, IA has learned their lesson!
KJJ
Figuring i should throw a link on our site to this because i just got a call from these guys and i politely said not interetsted, no thanks. I'm so glad i told him to call me back when he called friday. So it gave me a chance to look this up and i like the fact your article appears higher than their web site.
I just got a voicemail from these people yesterday. The guy said pretty much the same things that are listed in other posts. It’s a very misleading message. They don’t identify themselves in the message, but I checked my site logs and figured out who they were. The thing is, I built the site myself and there is nothing wrong with it on the technical side regarding SEO.
He called the 1-800 phone number off my website and my website states the number is for customer use only, that really annoys me.Too bad I can’t upload the voicemail.
abby,
I would think you had something better to do than go around the Net covering up and explaining away all the bad press Internet Advancement gets. Obviously, by the wording in your post, you work for them. Here's why I think you work for Internet Advancement and not Microsoft.
How do you know how many clients they have ranking in the search engines if you do not work for them? Did you personally research and find ALL their clients and count them?
Christine Gregoire congratulated them because they settled and did not fight it in court. They got caught, they admitted it, she applauded because many people deny deny till the end.
Microsoft has not been sued for the same reasons and they do not provide the same service to people as Internet Advancement. I see no reason for this to be in your post, it doesnt relate.
It was really subtle how you added in the hype on the product, service and price. Even got the word honest in there. Crappy attempt at trying not to sound like you work there.
Why do you refer to them as "IA" and not Internet Advancement unless you work there. I didn't see any mention of the word IA in any of the article or comments. You sound very familiar with the company nicknames and lingo for NOT working there.
"i have done the research for HOURS on this subject and you cannot genreat over 500,000 submissions per month without their technology"
Who needs to submit that much? Who needs to submit at all? Submission are outdated and not needed, bots are the ones that provide the pages to be indexed not submitting. Through many links a site can generate many more visits from search engine bots than 500,000. So either you suck at research or you just made that up to sound knowledgeable.
"I work for Microsoft and i KNOW this."
Yeah right! lol
Again with the familiar lingo! How did you know to use the word "warantee" and not guarantee? Everyone else in the industry calls it a guarantee, but you chose to use the word warranty. Only employees of Internet Advancement use that word, and you didn't even spell it right. I have been pitched by many of them for many years on multiple sites I own. I remember a few years ago they used the word guarantee in their sales pitch, now they use warranty in the pitch. You seemed to know that too, wonder how?
People are just giving their opinion on a public article that was posted by Seattle Times. The posts here are peoples opinion about the information they have seen on a company. Sure they do not know all of the good things, but there are not that many to talk about in this case. Instead of covering up for your company try finding a new job where you don't have to waste your time doing this every time you get some bad press.
I am glad I decided to google this company's name. I've received voicemails from them with the same exact words I read here. They have called me several times regarding my website.
I appreciate the input!!!
Michele
Well, it has now been several weeks since IA emailed me and said they would refund my money (still showing as a dispute with AMEX)...I received a call from someone at IA that they needed to talk with me before they could put the credit through. Nope, I didn't fall for that one!
Within the past 3 weeks I have received a letter from the Attorney Generals office in WA saying that IA has agreed to refund my money, even thought they didn't do anything wrong etc. etc.
Since the email from IA and the letter from the AG's office, I have had 2 emails from IA about how they have met their obligation and delivered X number of hits to my site etc. etc...
They are so deep into their own scams they can't keep track...Meanwhile...Monster Commerce has been doing the SEO work since MAY, that IA is taking the credit for! I keep trying to block their emails and they keep getting through!
My saga continues...
American Express sent the charge back to them, so I have been credited for the first $400.00. My bookkeeper caught a second charge on my most recent statement today! Once again, I called Amex to dispute it.
Internet Advancement sucks
Intenet Advancement customer reviews
Internet Advancement feedback reports
Thanks Teluride for the tips!KJJ
Update... After reading all of your great info, I WAS able to get my $333 back from IA, They wern't to happy. I'm really glad I found you guys before I paid them any more!! Rand, I printed out the beginners guide to seo and will be reading that.. thanks!
Michael, the links are another thing I'm not sure about. That link service sort of came with the web site. (for 6 months anyway) They say they help get you links and make sure there are no dead links and things like that. So they were working? They are all supposed to be linked back to me. Is that a legit. way to do it??
I have another question as well... Has anyone ever used a SEO software like "web seo" they are supposed to crawl your site and tell you what the search engine sees and helps you optimize your site yourself.. I only ask because I have NO money and can't really afford to hire a firm. I've done everything on the site up until now and just wonder if it's possible to continue with the help of some software. Thanks guys, I look forward to hearing from you.
Christine
Wow! (slaps my own forehead) Now why didn't I think of that? You mean, I could have just thrown some meta tags on my sites, submitted monthly to thousands of minor search engines, and had great rankings! Wait, let me go advertise those services right now!
Sheesh. How about we create our own SEO firing squad, so we can just line these kinds of companies up, and blast them with paintball guns? Or better yet, make them all display a huge warning sign on their websites that brands them as idiots!
These guys call me all of the time. I give them my competitors phone number. lol... Maybe I should give them Rand's number and say that he contracts the work for my sites.
Google points at that Seattle Times article on the Google SEO page google.com/webmasters/seo.html
I tried buying an ad on that specific article, but the newspaper can only target ads to sections or keyword baskets like Google, etc. :(
>And to top off their hypocrisy, their own site doesn't have meta tags on it.
I have never understood when people don't practice what they sell. It takes all of 5 minutes to make unique page titles, etc...and you have to assume that if you are not doing that sort of stuff then you are going to lose some potential clients out of it.
I linked you up, and will likely donate to support your case if you get sued ;)
It was seriously hilarious listening to Rand talk with salesman Ryan, esp. watching his face. Great afternoon entertainment!
How much do they charge for these, so called, “services”? How does it compare to the industry average for actual SEO services?
Hey, Rand, you've seen my posts lately at cre8, right? I really think the number of scam companies is growing in the SEM world. These companies are really going very pro-active. What they do is exactly what you describe: they use search engines, type in keywords and call people up and start the usual BS. I really think we should do something. Like creating an organization or something to protect these poor companies who get ripped off everyday. ..
Good post Rand. To novices, sales people from these kinds of companies can sound very persuasive. Short-term, you’re certainly at a disadvantage in this business when you have morals.
Network Solutions is offering a similar type of warranty with their new custom SEO services.
They guarantee a "minimum number of top 10 placements across 13 search engines" within 10 months from completion date: AOL, AlltheWeb, AltaVista, AskJeeves, Google, Hotbot, IWon, Looksmart, Lycos, MSN, Netscape, Teoma, and Yahoo!.
The warranty wording is a little vague, but I have to assume they are not guaranteeing top 10 placements on each of the 13 engines.
Accordingly, I feel bad for the client that gets told they can't get their money back because they got top 10 placements on LookSmart. A common tactic among many of the “big” SEO companies (the ones who warehouse sales people).
What was that line from Tommy Boy… something about a guarantee fairy making you feel warm and fuzzy at night…
Well it kinda sucks its in our back yard but hopefully the AG will handle business.
Hello,
I also have a newer website that I launched last August, www.chanceyscharms.com. I am new to this whole thing and do have Internet Advancement as my SEO company.
With their services, I have achieved some hire rankings with key phrases in Google and Yahoo as well as other engines. Well I just recently received my ranking report and it was horrible. I fell out of Google all together (or at least not in the top 20 pages, when I was on the second page previously) and in many other engines I dissapeared. If I did not drop out, I dropped up to 80 slots. As you can imagine I was furious!
When I called IA, they were extremely defensive and I was appauled by their response to my concerns. I could not figure out why I had not seen a sale on my site in almost 3 weeks and now it was clear to me. I reminded them of the contract but technically the initial 3 month period was over.
My contract with IA is now up and is simply a month to month deal. I pay them $149 a month and I am not sure what for at this point.
My question is (if someone can answer this), if the meta tags have been applied and everything else looks good, does anyone know if they can go in and remove these if I cancel? I paid a setup fee of $500 with this company. My other question is if I stop using their services, and don't touch anything in my meta tags, will the website maintain without an SEO? I use a quick shopping cart program to make my site and they had to upload all of the meta tags and content from their end. I am not even sure how they did this.
I could save LOTS of money by not using this company any longer.
Anyone that has insights, PLEASE HELP ME!!!!
Sincerely,
Jason
Hi Jason,
As long as they can't login to your website's control panel, FTP, or domain host you'll be fine. If you're hosting with them, you'll obviously have problems. You'll need to make sure you have your website secure so that you're the only one that can access that information, i.e. if you shared it with IA in the past, change it before terminating. Make sure it works, then terminate.
As for the meta tags have very little value (overall) aside from the Title tag. I don't know of anyone that can provide you SEO services at $149/month, but for $49 per month you can become a Premium Member here, get access to all the tips and proper SEO information you'd need.
Good luck!
Great! Thanks for the info. Fortunately, I am not hosted with them. I am through GoDaddy.com
They did have my password and login info. I just changed the password.
Is that enough? Is there any other way they could access my content?
Thanks again for your info!
Jason
You'll want to make sure they're not on any email notifications so that they can't be sent a new User name and Password... At this point, I'd talk to GoDaddy about your situation--making sure IA can't access your site--and have them help you making sure that's the case.
I did just that! Thank you!
I also just filed a complaint with the BBB due to their inapproriate email after another to me. Extremely unprofessional and borderline harrassment.
I have never experienced anything like this. They told me to "take a deep breath and relax" in an email and thanked me for waisting their time. This is after payin them a total of $900 thus far. They also just told me that "my website will suffer". No joke, this was their response to me.
Wow......
Just as a warning, $900 is fairly cheap when it comes to SEO services, so you'll likely find some pretty shaky deals when you go that route. On the other hand, if you put that money into educating yourself it'll go a lot farther. If you like being hands on with your site that education can be a big help.
I just wanted to say that this post is Awesome. I have been talking with Internet Advancement and thought that they sounded like they were full of it and when I do some research, this is the first thing I come to. Thank you very much for putting this information out there.They have been trying to tell me that they are one of the "most trusted and reputable SEO's out there" I can't wait until they call back.
Thanks
I'm glad and upset that when I did a Google search for Internet Advancement, this blog came up. Glad that it may keep others from getting involved with IA, and upset that I did not see it before I signed the agreement with them. We are a new start up and they caught us at a particularly vulnerable moment. I had absolutely NO knowledge of SEO, but I worked 8 to 10 hours a day submitting my site, posting on blogs, started a blog, etc and got my site to page three on Yahoo for my biggest key word. Long story short, 14 days after their "experts" took over my site disappeared from Yahoo. It's been 100 days, my traffic is a third of what it was, and the ranking I had achieved dropped making me in worse shape than I was on my own. We have been going back and forth trying to get a refund. STAY AWAY FROM THIS COMPANY. Any suggestions appreciated.
"Scammed" here again. Well, Internet Advancement's time was up two weeks ago. I called then to cancel my agreement with them and request a refund. They said it would take 7-10 business days to "review" my account first. It's now been 12 business days and they will not return my phone calls or my emails. I'm so frustrated with this, I started my own blog: Rants of A Work-at-Home Mother. Check it out. So far, I only have my review of Internet Advancement, but I'll be adding to it regularly. I need some place to vent!
I received a follow up letter from the Attorney General's office in Seattle. They are investigating IA. Email Mary Beth with your complaint:
[email protected]
or write to them at:
Washington State Attorney General's office
800 5th Ave. Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98104-3188
ATT: Consumer Protection Investigator MaryBeth H.
Even though my saga is over and I was able to get my money back after filing a complaint with the AGs office, IA still emails me with ranking reports and they haven't done a thing on my site in months. Monster Commerce is doing my SEO work and IA is taking credit for it!
Darn it! I already filed a complaint earlier today with the AG. Well, hopefully, whoever received it will pass it on to this Mary Beth. Thanks, KJJ. I'm glad you got your money back finally! I put two more calls in to Internet Advancement again today, to two different people, and neither one called me back.
Like you, I'm still getting their reports. I've noticed I'm finally starting to show up on a couple lesser known search engines for two of my keywords, but these are still way down at position number 89 and one hundred and something. And I know even this teeny amount of progress is because of the hours and hours I've spent the last several weeks doing SEO myself on my site, and not what they've done for me!
One bit of SEO I still need to do is change my metatags, since further research into SEO has lead me to the conclusion that the ones they entered for me are probably getting me penalized for spamming, but I'm waiting to do that until I get a refund from them. Even though I canceled with them, I know if I change the tags now they'll try to use that as a reason to get out of giving me my money back.
Dear Scammed,
My suggestion is that you email Mary Beth and let her know you have filed a complaint so she can look for it.
It takes a lot of perserverence and if I were you, I would keep at it until you get your money back. That is what I did...I was relentless.
Have you changed your password so they can't access your site and mess it up any longer? That is what I did immediately.
KKJ
Anyone notice that when you Google “Internet Advancement” their site is showing up as an authority site? How annoying is that?
My Saga Ends:
Well it’s finally ended with IA. Looking back I should have tried to get all my money back. Instead I just said lets terminate the contract with no further payments. At first they said no way where they gunna do that but after letters to the Washington State Attorney General, Wisconsin Attorney General (my home state), The Better Business Burrow, and The Federal Trade Commission IA folded like a Frenchmen.
Moral of the story is if you feel like IA took advantage of you don’t just give up. Make your voice heard and they’ll give you what you want just to shut you up.
I agree Rand, clowns like these give the SEO community a black eye. I had an experience much in the same way with an SEO company in Chicago, which is what led me to start my own firm.
They had a business model nearly identical to the company mentioned in this post and had no intentions of doing anything other than so called meta tag optimization, submitting to Dmoz, used Web Position Gold to submit the site to a slew of 2nd rate search engines and had no idea of what link building was, much less how to actually engage the process.
I started back in the 90's as a consequence of starting a business. The things I learned then about ranking and relevance still leave many So called Seo's in the dust, since half of them are still stuck there as well.
They may as well grow a mullet and put on a hawaiian shirt with a flower print while there at it and tell us all that it's the latest fashion.
The point being, rankings like anything substantial take time to build, there are no shortcuts and if you do find some, they probably won't last long enough due to the constant updates in algorithms.
This is amazing! March of '07, a sales rep by the name of Ryan from a company called "Internet Advancement" called me at J&B Motor-Sport. I was working for J&B as a marketing professional. I simply designed their site and handled all of their marketing campaigns. I knew nothing of this Search Engine Optimization Ryan spoke of, but it sounded very interesting. It seemed powerful, and my thoughts were validated when he told me the price: $1,500 up front and about $90/month.I asked him if this was a large industry, because it seems like it would be, and he told me that they are the only company that has this sort of "technology". Of course I didn't believe that, so I asked him if it is hard to learn. He told me no. So I told him, "I have your info, I will give you a call soon!" I talked to the owner of J&B and told him the price, and he said no way. So I began to search for SEO on Google. Of course you all know what that does...I'm no dummy, I went to school for Info Systems Technology and I am obsessed with computers and information, so this was a huge deal for me! I began to study, and I started with Richard Jenkins' video tutorial on Lynda.com. I recommend it to any newbies who need a thorough, simple introduction.In his videos, he named priceless resources like SEOmoz, Bruce Clay, Sempo, Search Engine Land, and SERoundtable. I absorbed these resources and spent the last 6 months wallowing in this amazing profession.I feel disappointed that there are so many companies out there like Internet Advancement that take something beautiful and important like search and information, and abuse the prospects we would love to truly help.I may not be able to help a company in the field of search as much as a larger company that has been around longer, but I do understand the importance of being completely white hat in everythging I do.I love what you guys write about, and I will always see what you have to say.I do have an idea, I don't know if it exists yet, but we need to have some sort of blacklisting system that the top guys in SEO utilize to help keep the search industry clean of these kinds of businesses that give us all a bad name. We could also do something a lot like Andy Beal on the Marketing Pilgrim, sometimes he mentions an SEO firm that he thinks is good, honest, and deserves a boasting. I'm not sure if anything like this exists, and I don't care about accredidation if it doesn't, but I think it would help the businesses get ahead that should. I know SEOmoz does a very good job at blogging about the good and bad businesses in SEO. I think an even larger system, supported by all of us, that could be more visible to the eye of businesses not in the know of SEO, would be benneficial to all of us.If you guys do know of anything like what I've described, or if I am completely missing something here :), please shoot me an email: [email protected], thank you for doing a huge part to keep this industry clean. You guys are great!
sluz - that's why I called back - note the pricing I listed in the post. It's clearly less than most "real" SEO services, but still a lot of money to pay to get nothing in return.
Hey all, I recently started a marketing position where the previous person signed up for Internet Advancement. After researching the company it looks like I have inherited a major problem. My question to you all is Can the practises of IA actually HURT sales? Currently I am looking at a 80% decrease in sales in a matter of weeks. I realize the economy is shakey to say the least, but this is a huge drop. Any thoughts, or ideas?
eb08..I am a former employee of IA but have been in the e commerce industry for a long time, feel free to contact me at [email protected] and I'll be happy to give you the skinny on IA's practices in detail. This applies to anyone who is thinking about, or has hired IA to do their online marketing. I do recommend avoiding them.
We are a small Washington State based mineral makeup company that fell for this one. I hate to admit it!
We now go through Hubspot and are loving it! Their program has helped us integrate an seo plan that's actually working. We're still in the beginning stages but are already seeing movement. If you're a company that want's to control your own seo then I recommend HubSpot
Internet Advancement is no more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think they are down to three employees and they cannot sell internet marketing anymore. Now they are called IEplexus and offer something similar....scam as well though.
It's kind of amazing that after 2 1/2 years people are still adding comments here, it just shows that IA haven't changed their ways and there really isn't a lot anyone can do about it.
I'm comforted somewhat by the search results for "Internet Advancement", first is their website, but 2nd is this thread and 3rd refers to the attorney general sueing IA.
I would love to see some sort of association start up which allows value adding SEO companies to register and give people the knowlege they're not going to be ripped off and if they have a dispute the association can investigate and kick them out or do something.
hey guys, not sure who might read this or not but I have heard of this company in WA. My company Interactive ID does website design as well as incoporate SEO in our sites.
The key to getting good search engine ranking is not rocket science but does require some elbow grease here and there.
1. Compare you site to your competitors
2. How do you come up with the best key words, (Google this) the keyword search tool
3. use your search phrase as a header tag and make sure you get a good design company to make your header tags pretty by using CSS style sheets, also IMPORTANT, use your keyword in your meta title bar.
4. Make sure you have good density in your page.
5. most important, optimize each of your webpages and treat them as seperate files to the search engine
6. have your website links as text instead of images
7. submit a site map to google, this is like a road map of your website
8.Get other pages linking to your website that are relevant and has high page ranking.
There is some more involved but this is almost it in a nutshell. most companies getting a website doesn't realize this takes time to research, implement and write copy for your pages on your website.
hope this helps and please don't have a bad taste in your mouth in case you got burned. Not all companies are the same. If you hire a SEO firm, ask them to give you their clients names, their keywords and do some research yourself.
Hey guys,
I am very close to the small business community in Seattle and I have to say that there are a few companies that are extremely corrupt when it comes to SEO. I know many people that have gotten involved with them and lost, big time. I myself never made the order.
The main ones that call are Visible.net and FutureRanking (Future Ranking). I'm sure there are more, but these guys are big players and by that I mean scam artists. They may have decent technology, but their service pretty much equates to thievery. I believe one or both even have the attorney general (ag) all over them. All I know is that they are downsizing like crazy because they can't do business anymore! Mission complete!
there is a lot i seo scams out there I got a program from SEOmoz link and banner program the sales rep promised me traffic the would turn into sales. i never got traffic so i asked for my money back and they would not answer the phone or my emails Shame on you SEOmoz.com Give me a refund!!!
Hi all, I'm one of the victims that signed up for service with Ieplexus. During the 6 months that I used their service I saw no increase in search engine rankings and received many scammers on my blog site. They were in the process of opening a new office in Scottsdale, Az during this time. Since I live in Arizona I made a personal visit and met their sales person Carson Cummings and spoke with Jason on several occassions about problems that I had with their service. This morning I received an email from Jason Carter of Linkspanther.com, irronically located in Scottsdale, Az. So it would appear that the "mission is not complete", they just changed stripes.
I worked for Internet Advancement, and believe me you guys just think it meta tags?!? You obviously need to do more research then opening up a shi**y website that we have all seen there many times... And remember YOUR not the only one in the WORLD with a get rich quick website!
If your website, doesn't have enough content, keywords, links, every component besides pictures, then you may have a slim chance of getting on a major search engine, also if you would just leave the site alone besides adding products you would have a better chance of getting on a major search engine.
But because people are so freakin stupid when it comes to websites they change their words, they re-write content they change what we do every month soo they never get the proper rankings, Remember it takes TIME!
I think they are a bunch of scams but from the customers i've seen and how stupid they are I think the company and customers are about even to me.
50/50
I own a web site that had the misfortune of being contacted by Internet Advancement about a year ago. I take issue with markos28's comments ("people are so freakin stupid when it comes to websites they change their words, they re-write content they change what we do every month soo they never get the proper rankings, Remember it takes TIME!") I have left everything that Internet Advancement did to my site intact (I must admit due to ignorance on my part) from the day it was uploaded to today (that will soon change!). I knew that it took time to improve rankings but I was tired of spending a lot of money with Google adwords and I thought Internet Advancement could help. They promised to improve rankings for certain keywords but the only keywords that I achieve good rankings with are words that I was already getting good organic listings for anyway. Our traffic and sales have steadily declined since the "work" was done.
I was also told that I would be informed of the changes that would need to be made and that I would be able to approve of things being uploaded to my site. The first set of copy was not at all what I wanted on my site snce it was suggesting things that were not true. When they uploaded new content to my home page there were misspellings, capitalization and punctuation errors. I paid $1000 for this! I was astonished at this when Shawn (my sales rep) had told me during his pitch that their copywriters all had BA degrees in English. I can't imagine from what school!
I am just finding out about the law suits against Internet Advancement and I am wondering if I might have any recourse. I spend hours of time every week working on my site, adding content, updating my product pages and it seems all for naught when the changes Internet Advancement made to my site have caused a lot of problems for me.
I tend to agree with the others who have suggested that those who have posted to this thread under the guise of being a "happy customer" must work for Internet Advancement. I just want to add my voice to the others as a voice of warning to those who are trying to validate the claims that Internet Advancement makes before they enter into an agreement. I was naive and new to e-commerce when I hired Internet Advancement so their claims sounded like just what I needed. I know now that I could have done all that they did and more.
While time is money, if you really need help getting your site the presence you desire and you don't have a clue what you're doing find a reputable company. You will pay significantly more for their services but you will actually get what you pay for.
I so wish I had read this before I talked with them. My comapny and I spent 3000.00 with them and believed there promises. After 9 months we were not where they promised us to be, and asked for our refund as guaranteeed by there company. It took 3 more months of fighting with them and we only got 1000.00 of or investment back. They also got us banned from google by submiting us to many times which ruined or serach engine popularity. Is there anyone or caomapny out there that can be trusted to do this correctly?
Thanks
Billy
<a href="https://www.wegotsecurity.com">We Got Security, Inc</a>
TO: WE GOT SECURITY
Yeah you need to always research before you buy, they have contracts at IA thats why you only got 1000.00 because they still worked on your website. If you take your car to a mechanic and he messes up you still pay for the original product that was broken they pay for what they broke!
And if you don't know what your doing go and get a BEtty Crocker site through Yahoo or Go daddy. those people build and maintain websites.
Hi, I am new to this community, but I wanted to let everyone know that Internet Advancement has a new company and name IE Plexus. They are just as bogus as before only now with a new name and scam. They build people blogs (which anyone can do for free) then they write a "Press Release" that they put on this new blog and use ping o matic to submit it once. That's going to generate a lot of exposure! Come on. Then they write some lame bogus content still putting lots of emphasis on Meta Tags, and then submit to 200 directories per month. And for all of that they charge over $2,000 and then $60 per month. Oh yeah I talked to this one guy he owns a template site that can generate an HTML site map in his back office. As part of his $3,000 package they told him that they would build him a site map. Guess what he had, you guessed it that HTML site map that comes with the site. Not to mention it's and HTML site map! Those aren't accepted by the major search engines they have to be in XML or in a Feed. It is companies like these that are ruining our industry and they should be exposed for what they are, criminals and liars that take advantage of unknowing small business owners. It is horrible. The owners Earnest, Ken Committee, and Todd Wickam should all be in jail for fraud.
Just visit beyondsearch.com and review the clients that they list. All of them are owned by Dwayne Walker.
How someone has not pursecuted this guy for deceptive business practices is beyond my comprehension.
Will the Washington State Attorney Generals office please review this?
It is people like Mr. Walker who put a very bad spin on the whole SEO market.
Let's all not forget that the original owners of this company started this with their fraudulent business practices in the first place. E, K, and T, as I am sure you all know who they are by now, have taken the company back from Dwayne, but their business practices have not changed in the least bit. They may be selling under another name, but are not selling SEO services anymore to new clients. Give them a call, you will find out what they are doing now, and since the 3 original owners have taken over again, I recommned no one does business with them as they will never learn to conduct business in an ethical and moral manner. They are out to just take the money. They do not know how to properly train anyone to do the job correctly and are what you can basically call a chop shop, boiler room, etc....... They push their staff beyond reason for sales and that is the only thing they are concerned with is sales. They are not concerned whether they actually do a good job or not and are just like the majority of corrupt corporations running this country. DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THEM AT ALL.
I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you sooooooo much rickrsdm. I have been contacted several times by this company ieplexus. Telling me how close my site was to being great if only......... See, I've heard all this before (see posts above from last year) from internet advancement. When this guy called it had the same feel, the smooth fast talking "nice" guy. I talked to him for awhile to hear what he had to say, all exactly the same as rickrsdm's post above. At the end of the conversation he wanted to send me the "services agreement" to look over. Knowing what I know I came right hear to see if any of you good people knew anything about this company. I checked google for ieplexus and couldn't get anything but glowing reviews. Then a name struck me in one of the a_ _ sucking posts.... Carson....That's the one who got me the first time with IA. I KNEW IT.
Rand, you need to go and work your majic on their Google page, something like "ieplexus fuels my rage" People need to know that these people are back to their old tricks again under a new cover.
Thank you so much for helping me dodge this bullet successfully!!!
and you're right all the things they say they will do for you for $3000, we can all do ourselves for free or close to it.
You all are the best!! Thank you
C.
You are all correct. These guys are some of the most fraudulent business men that I have known. Let's face it folks. There are tons of corporations just like this that all they do is take your money and give you nothing back. They do have alot of success under their belt, but I can bet you that the non successul heavily outweighs the successes that they have. They are no longer allowed to sell seo services in the state of washington, period. But hey, as we all know how crooks actually work within the legal system, (lol) , no one is going to be able to stop them no matter what you do. They have been operating for over 6 years and still are in business, do you honestly think anyone has the power to shut them down? No, they will continue to wreck havoc on our industry, leaving in their trail the remnants of honest hard working people. I am sorry to say, they will never be stopped and really, there is nothing we can do about it except warn people thru this blog. Take a look at all the corrupt corporations in this country, it is appalling and is part of the problem with our economy, but no one seems to be able to stop them no matter what we do.
Rand, maybe you could find a way to pursue these type of businesses more on a hard core way, or give some us some advice as to how to get them shut down and thrown in jail, because the AG thing obviously has not done the job. What do you think? Oh, and why Dwayne Walker has not been taken care of is because he is a billionaire and cannot be touched. He is an ex Microsoft Executive, so that should tell you right there.
Sorry.
I hear these scams everyday. I often try to follow up on the call by inviting them to a web site which does SEO the right way and then ask them about it. Often they will move me to a supervisor who quickly realizes that he will get revealed if he press ahead and they politely end the call.
Everything Internet is a radio show that is heard on the BIZ Radio network 1110 AM in Houston and Dallas Ft. Worth.
We appreciate you blog.
I am an owner of stores online. I had an experience with one of the companies above mentioned, IEplexus at IEplexus.com. They wanted to get me setup with a custom business blog and then submit releases along with my news. I thought the price would be around a couple of hundren, but no, when I heard how much it was I said, thanks but NO thanks. While I was on the phone with them I googled their name and found some interesting claims, including this post. Apparently there are others who think ieplexus is also internet advancement.
IEplexus is on a site called RipOffReport as well.
https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/337/RipOff0337487.htm
https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/337/RipOff0337414.htm
Thank you so much for providing this resource to us all. I nearly got took and if it wasnt for proactive bloggers, search engines and other consumers we wouldn't know nearly as much as we are able to.
If you are with stores online and need help marketing use the onlinemerchantforum.com (where I first discovered the name ieplexus was related somehow to internet advancement).
https://www.onlinemerchantforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=489790
IEplexus.com IS Internet Advancement. Two of the owners of IA started it. Basically its the same scam. They take your $$$ and you get nothing. I don't think they offer any kind of a warranty this time, however. Don't waste your money. Rand should do a blog like this one on them.
I chuckled when I read this because I experienced the same conversation randfish did with IA. As they continue to mislead people (aka: highway robbery)legitimate SEO firms get their unhappy customers. In my case, they kept telling my client that if they bumped up to a higher monthly fee, their rankings would improve because they'd submit to even more search engines. It's all so ridiculous to us, but unsuspecting web site owners get burned everyday.
Geez... they must be calling everyone on the web! I wonder how many calls they make per day and how many jobs they sign up.
If their company was any good that they wouldn't have a bunch of people making phone calls.
I just wanted to let everyone know that I did do business with this company. I did not achieve the results that I was seeking. However, from what I can tell, they worked very diligently on my behalf. The communication and the customer service was great. And they stood by their warranty and refunded me half of the money that I gave them up front. Having been in sales and customer service for a number of years, I have to say that I believe that the effort expended over a few months time did warrant the fees charged. Also, the customers that I secured more than made up for my out of pocket costs. Further, I will continue to service those customers. Your blog was very helpful to me however and I actually used some of the concerns raised as I was determining whether or not to do business with them. When I felt that my concerns were adequately addressed and everything was properly disclosed in writing, I decided to proceed. As a very small webpreneur, I was looking for an economical way to grow my business. Earlier, I was eaten alive by PPC advertising and the click fraud that goes on there. Please note that I am not endorcing this company in anyway. I merely wanted to pass on my own personal experience. I really can't say anything negative about them. Also in response to the person that wanted to know if "telemarketing" should be unacceptable in this field. I would say "yes". I believe that every viable, legitmate business should have the right to market their product or service as long as they do it in a responsible, respectful manner.
Whew, dodged a bullet there. I was just contacted by 'Roscoe' at IA. I would have bought if I didn't have a research first policy. Looking at what he had me look at, it seemed like a great service. I went to Google, searched for 'Internet Advantage' (which, by the way you are to # 3 now) and found in # 2 the Seattle Times article to which was referred earlier, and this blog.
THANK GOD!!
I have a very small budget at the moment, as we are just starting out, and was wondering if any of you can give me suggestions as to what I SHOULD use or how I can get other sites to link to my site to improve my ranking. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If you can't make any specific recommendations on here, you can do so through my contact form: https://www.sonic-depot.com/contactus/contactf...
Please help. I don't want to fall into the trap of something like this only to get screwed.
BTW, if they are as good as they claim, why can't they offer a 100% money back GUARANTEE. A warranty is for a tangible product that can break, and if they are really as good as they say, they should be able to afford to lose the money to a customer here and there. 50% of $1,300 (which is what their price is now) is a lot of money for them to keep for not doing anything.
I used their service and was also "disappointed". After 7 months with legitimate keywords and a SEO'ed home page, they've delivered literally zero traffic. With this said, they have a page one ranking for several of my keywords on ask.com (which gets such limited traffic), two mirror sites of ask.com, and search.com (which also gets limited traffic) so they won't refund the other 50% of my $980 deposit. What's worse is that I spoke to them 2 months ago about the lack of results and they spoke of ammending this. They admitted that though they've "fulfilled their responsibility according to the contract", ask.com and search.com are not exactly top-trafficed search engines. For their honesty, I wanted to give them a chance. Two months later, they've charged me another $180 and... No traffic. The talk continues about being business partners, wanting to create a win-win situation, etc. and... I have zero traffic and I'm down $1,160. I say with zero fear of contradiction that my relationship with IA has not been win-win.
Anyone who posts on this site that IA's issues are from three years ago are straight-up lying. They're job is to drive traffic, I'm getting no traffic from their work, and they say they've fulfilled their responsisbilities and deserve the $1,160 they've garnered from me. Obviously I'm not so objective about this but... Their company seems less than up-and-up to me.
As a final comment, I'm still speaking with them so, who knows? Maybe they'll do the right thing. Maybe I'll jump to page one on google. Who knows? If they/I do, I'll post it. if they/I don't, I won't. In other words, in this case, no news is bad news.
Had a few of these puppies call me at the office: "Are you the person who deals with the company website?" The guys know when I've got one because my little eyes light up and it's speaker phone time...
I think the large majority of "SEO companies" are just like them and I suspect that firms like these are more common in Europe than in the United States.
Gilgul, Rand's link condom is perfectly intact. Yahoo shows the link in linkdomain: searches etc., but it doesn't pass reputation. (more info)
Hahaha they actually called us... and we almost took the bait 1 year ago... before we started doind seo...
What a bs.
Cheers to Rand for pointing that out :D
Internet Advancement used to create doorway pages with wacky URL's and then submit those pages to the "major & minor" search engines. They wanted us to resell their services and a split in profit and after much research we found out they were doing cloaking and doorway pages for their clients. We had to pass becasue we knew our clients would end up getting kicked out of Google. It was pretty bad.
I think abby works front desk for IA. (called a while back, "abby" answers phones).
Wow - good find rand.
I'm getting a little fed up with the "we'll get your site to rank in the top 3 results - within 24 hrs" line. It seems like I get emails every day promising me this type of achievement.
- I'm tempted to take a google banned domain and have one of these companies get me to the top results of "web hosting" withing 24hrs. :)
There is another post like this on Jason Hendricks blog about the same company calling him to optimize a site. Apparently he didnt talk to them, they left a message.
https://www.jasonhendricks.com/seo-advice/inte...
I was recently contacted by this company. I am glad this blog was available. You have saved me a lot of money. I still have a dilema. I am an affiliate marketer with a web portal that does not allow me access to the source code etc. Therefore, I don't know how the 'bots will find my site to eventually rank it since it looks like the other 100,000 affiliate sites. Am I doomed to rely on pay-per-click programs to get targeted traffic to my site? Is there no way to optimize it? I have to admit that what this company was offering sounded like an answer to my concerns. If anyone has any suggestions, I would welcome them. But again, thank you for having this forum.
Up to #6. Not bad for 4 days worth of optimization.
The reason they have over 5,000 clients is because there are approximately 5,000 idiots who paid good money for thier sub-par services.
If you want people to find your website on the top of google, the site has to be built with the search engines in mind.
Last that I heard, the Bill of Rights allows for free speech, and assembly. What's wrong with people getting together and talking about a company with a checkered past?
I think that there is a hole in your condom, Rand, your site is ranked at #2 here: https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=linkdomain:internetadvancement.co
May want to use some JS for that purpose...
I found this little brainwave on their front page.
"The higher your Search Engine Ranking, the more traffic you will generate."
Well congratulations. A stunning piece of detective work that Seargent Search Engine.
I wonder if they could push a v7n-site? ha ha! All I need is #1 on Google.... I don't need much :D
My mail spam filter is now about 30% SEO/SEM spam. I actually have "google" as a known spam word for my filter.
We had a discussion about IA back in the time of seochat: forums.seochat.com/seo-professionals -57/opinions-internet-advancement-21033.html
In the discussion their methods become quite clear too. It's funny, companies like that make it real easy to become "good" at SEO, you don't even need to perform anymore. Just don't do anything stupid...
Rand, I've been meaning to ask this question about URL structure and apologize ahead of time if it has already been discussed. If our goal is to rank this post #1 for "internet advancement" wouldn't it help to have the title in the URL as internet_advancement_fuels_my_rage instead of blogdetail.php?ID=815? Thoughts?
I believe that describing experiences accurately and presenting opinion constitutes free speech. I'm certainly making no allegations other than my own personal belief that their service provides no value (and that they need to tell their salespeople not to get so emotional on the phone).
But, Aaron - your support is greatly appreciated; thanks!
Rand, I got your back. I posted (and linked) at 14thC and also started a thread at SEO Refugee about this. Hopefully others will join in.
BTW - Great link bait (whish I'd thought of it!).
Good luck!
Linked. A blacklist gathering SEO scams would be a neat thing to do, but who would host and maintain it, and who would fund the legal team? Wishful thinking unfortunately ...
I notice how some comments find this humorous, and I can see why. But for those of us who spend a lot of time (time is money!) trying to re-educate potential and often skeptical clients, this is exactly the kind of disservice to the SEO sector that is so frustrating. More frustrating still is that Rand could probably have picked up the phone and had the same conversation with 2/3 of the SEO firms on the market...maybe more.
OK, rant aside, now I can admit that it was a humorous post. :-)
The economics of this is interesting.
Instead of poor SEO do something similar with quality SEO. Target portions of the market. Hire sales people to cold call. Offer quality SEO.
Similar strategy...just give them good work.
Dave
First, wow - I haven't posted here forever. The UI improvements are very slick.
Second, sorry I'm so late to the party, but I came across this post again (having read it a long time ago linked off of, I think, one of Aaron's regarding TP).
So to the meat:
I was reminded of Internet Advancement, because I happened to be on a call with them yesterday.
I'm going to be a little vague about the circumstances to protect the innocent, but let's say it was a little fact-finding tour. Fact-finding which dovetails with your comment, Dave.
Everybody in the room was pretty familiar with search marketing, and very familiar with cold-calling. I won't rehash all the IA commentary, but it was the same story they've been telling for years apparently.
It got me searching - searching got me here.
So here's the question to which I'd love to see some responses from those of you with more experience and knowledge:
If you're making an offer like Dave suggests - one which actually provides value and a real guarantee - is cold-calling so bad?
What if I call you, a small-business with limited web presence, and offer to double your relatively meager traffic?
If I believe I can do it, and I tell you how I'll do it, and it doesn't risk getting you banned, shunned or frowned upon AND I promise to give you all of your money back if I can't do what I say, is it inherently wrong to make that offer by way of a cold-call? What if the pricing is good enough that, if successful, it provides a return on investment?
I'm not trying to bait any links it's just that the commentary here fit my question du jour and I know the readership to be thoughtful.
Too often, the typical small business doesn't realize there are options beyond Google and Yahoo paid search. And since they're not out there searching for "economical seo", how do they find out?
If the offer is good, the tactics are sound and the guarantee a real guarantee is it OK for me to have somebody pick up the phone and cold-call to make the offer?
Or is telemarketing just an untouchable in this context? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Will
cold calling to solicit business is not the problem. It is the deceptive and intentionally deceptive way they mislead people with promises of top ranking. I had a friend who worked at Internet Advancement and he shared with me the cold call script and some of the techniques the top sales reps used to make over 10 k a month cold calling people with websites that never made any sales after the supposed seo help. Thye seem to target people with below average websites that are trying to sell a product and promise them the moon to close a deal. if they do get a ranking it is usually for a 4 or 5 word search phrase with little competition or search traffic. They should talk about how clients see specific increase in search engine driven traffice not meaningless ranking guarantees..
I see this post as the 7th result in Google for "Internet Advancement" so far... nice...
I highly recommend that you become a premium member of SEOmoz.org (the site you are on now) if you are having questions or problems with your SEO providers.
When you do, you will have access to just about everything you need to know to answer the questions that are probably going through your head.
One of the overlooked values of having access to the premium content offered by this site is that after learning some of the basics that are illustrated so well, it will be just about impossible for anyone to rip you off, or try to pull the wool over your eyes.
You will know better.
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Rmccarley, I can't do it and I doubt anyone on this planet would do:( Way too much scams and way too many greedy laywers out there ...
Sebastian - If you'll cover the legal, I'll build the site...
What throws me about this is the guy that has to explain to his customers why they aren't #1 for anything useful in any of the useful SEs. Doesn't there come a point where you think, "maybe there is more to this..."
I know, I know, it's money not ethics that motivates them. I just can't imagine living my life that way.
Well, sounds like no one here is actually doing their due diligence in research. With the exception of this blog, any references to internet advancement thru Google is dated back to 2004. Is that the best you guys can do? If you had done your research properly, you would have noted that IA has successfully ranked over 5,000 e-commerce sites in top 10 and top 20 rankings over the years. IA has a very high success rate, and yes, just like every other single SEO company in the world, IA does not get every single web site ranked, nor does IA profess to get every single web site ranked. NO company can rank every single web site. Get real,,DUHHHHHH. For the price that IA charges, $163.33 which got my site ranked in 108 days and very well indeed. That is cheap as far as I am concerned and very well worth the price. If you really want to talk about scams, how about concentrating your efforts towards Google themselves, who just settled a 90 million dollar lawsuit for pay per click fraud. Now there is the real scam. Every single search engine has some if not alot of pay per click fraud going on. How do you think Google makes it's money. Hellllloooooooooo.
ch
My dear cheffy; I don't believe I need to share your IP address in order to show folks where you might be coming from... Really now, there's no defending crooks like these and your attempts are going to earn you scorn, not praise.
It's also good to realize that every comment on this post helps to bring it freshness, relevance and more link prowess (as SEOmoz lists first those posts with the most recent comments in our tracker). If you knew SEO, you'd know that by commenting here, you're helping to build the value of the negative attention for your firm.
Brilliant, no?
Ata boy Rand...track those IP's...lol
"Brilliant, no?" YES!
i think that we all should have something better to do than to slander someone for doing their job. Obviously, they get paid well enough to do so and they would not have over 5,000 clients ranking in the search engines. I noticed that there are things that people neglected to look at in researching the bad things about a company such as theirs. FOR EXAMPLE,
why would Christine Gregoire congratulate them on handling that situation so well? How many times has Microsoft been sued? and look at how long they have been in business. There is a reason why they are still in business and haven NOT changed their name, its because they have an EXCELLENT PRODUCT and provide a good SERVICE.
I wish there were other SEO companies out there would offer better pricing such as IA has to offer and also keep their word. I mean i have done the research for HOURS on this subject and you cannot genreat over 500,000 submissions per month without their technology. it just WONT HAPPEN! I work for microsoft and i KNOW this. As well as the fact that they have a WRITTEN WARANTEE that state if they dont do what they say, they will give you 50% of your money put into it back. They are a good company to go through. You all should find something better to do with your time and what you may not realize is that what you are saying about a company such as theirs can get you sued!
What's a warantee? Is that like a manatee? Or a combined guarantee and warranty? Oh snap! We need to get one of those.
I have read all of your posts and noticed also that the last one was in february. I also noticed when putting IA thru Google that they came up number one, and also that the negative reports were all dated in 2004 , with the exception of this one. First of all , how about we get the true knowledge of someone actually involved with Internet Advancement. Anyone involved in SEO knows that there is no magical cure and no one program fits all nor does any single company in the world get all their clients on the first page of the search engines in the natural rankings. Obviously Ryan did not know what he was talking about nor did he do his due diligence in his research nor have any of you either. IA has successfully ranked thousands of e-commerce web sites over these many years as have many other companies as well. IA never projects itself as the only company doing SEO. IA is very successful because they do get results and have thousands of clients ranking on the first page of all the search engines, yes, google with thousands included. Good knowlegable sales consultants are hard to find, but so are good knowledgable clientele and bloggers. IA does not rip people off, but if you want to really talk about ripping people off , how about focusing your attention to Google themselves who just settled a 90 million dollar lawsuit for pay per click fraud. Yeah, and Google is on the up and up,,lol,, who are the fools now. As a matter of fact , most if not all search engines experience alot of pay per click fraud, and yet, you guys are sweating a legitimate company doing good for thousands of clients that are making money.
CH.
This is a bogus statement. I say the original Author has an axe to grind with the folks at IA. There are no employees with the names mentioned in the article. IA is a damned good company.
hehe.
Max, when there's only one statement being made, and it's false, you can say it's bogus. When it's 6 articles or so, collaborated notes, and nearly 200 complaints filed with the state Attorney General and you say it's bogus, you don't look so accurate.
Ok, so the truth in all this is here and I'll be straight and tell you all I do have an axe to grind. I know them inside out. When they started they really could gain some rankings for some clients, but here we are 6 years later and those same techniques have no real value. They continued with the same techniques regardless of client failure again and again. About 1 year ago they re-wrote their agreements to water down the warrantee and add "traffic". Traffic is provided by BeyondSearch.com which is owned by the same people. (Dwayne M Walker, Ken Committee and Ernest Villamore)(Todd Wickham is also an owner, but not active within the company because he screwed his partners) So, here we are with the new lawsuit which is legit (check out the wa state ag site). They have a court date in January and are expected to either setlle or go out of business. Everything is switching over to BeyondSearch.com so watch them closely. They share the same office in Kirkland, WA! The owners are all the same people with the same ethics. They sell traffic (Meghan Blanchard's dept) and optimized content (Dustin Twyman's dept) The content is ok, but nothing that can't be done yourself and the traffic is crap. I have yet to see any client that stated they saw a serious increase in sales. Hit's maybe, but these are not real visitors so there ya go. Watch out for BeyondSearch.com . Also might watch out for Captures.com and WebMarketingSource.com since they are built by the people InternetAdvancement cut loose over the last few years. Most of them are the same ones that got the first lawsuit started back in 2004.
The lawsuit is legit and is based on 60 AG complaints recently. It's a big hit since they settled in 04 and agreed to specific guidelines with AG, this being a violation and carries a bigger penalty. They once had 70 reps, now only about 20. 10 are SEO and the rest are split into Traffic and Content.
I may suggest a little research if your interested into the following people......
Dwayne M Walker (Persident and CEO), Todd Wickham(Previously the CEO), Ernest Villamore(CTO and founder), Ken Committee (Formerly the president, not sure on his title now, but he runs the sale division)and Dustin R Twyman.
So there is a little insight into their progress in the world.
Captures and WMS are in no way affiliated with IA. There have been individuals who have worked here who also used to be employed by IA, however the number is less than 10 in about 4 years in business for WMS. Their offices were right acrossed the street from us, so it would make sense that some of them would come over here after the way they were supposedly treated there, however we have had no issues with any of them during their time here, or they wouldn't be employed with us.
Captures has actually been registered as a business longer than IA. First as a sole proprietorship in 1998 during their freelance design days, then as a full corporation selling eCommerce solutions.
Kindly refrain from throwing others in the same boat as IA (their management is responsible for what has happened before and since 2004, not their sales reps), especially when you are not aware of all the details to begin with. I agree, you do have acurate information to provide (appearing to know more than the average person about this company), however much of it is through spite and hatred for whatever they apparently did to you. At least that's how it appears to me.
Don't get me wrong, I strongly dislike their ethical approach to the business, so I appreciate you spreading the word about them (here and at DP and the other forums you posted in), however I do have a problem with pointing fingers at others just because 'a few' employees may have worked there at one time. I know these two companies try very hard to do the right thing, otherwise I wouldn't work there myself and publicly state it in my Online profiles.
Every business gets complaints, it's what you do about them that sets the good ones apart. Seems IA hasn't done anything about theirs, that's why they are in the mess they are in, not because of the people who worked their under managers who should know better than to let the issues continue for so many years.
Not true. Ryan was terminated and now works for housevaules. Others recently left and also went to house values. I have no doubt you work there and I bet I know exactly who you are too! I've ready the articles and the legal documents, they all worked there at some point and many still do. Nice try at deception, but sorry there are no takers! You know the truth, now so do we.
(This is in response to Maxxindogg's comments above)
(edit from Rand - got some complaints about specific names and removed them to protect privacy)