Depending on your industry, the more obvious and conversion-focused keywords you might target could be few and far between. With Google continuing to evolve, though, there's a whole host of other areas you might look: interest-based keywords. In today's Whiteboard Friday, Rand shows you how to find them.
For reference, here's a still of this week's whiteboard!
Video transcription
Howdy, Moz fans, and welcome to another edition of Whiteboard Friday. This week we're chatting about keyword targeting and specifically some of the challenges that happen when your keyword targeting list is rather small or hyper competitive and you need to broaden out. One of the great ways you can do that is actually by hacking the interests of the people who are performing those searches, or might perform those searches in the future, or might never perform those searches, but are actually interested in the product or service that you have to offer.
Classic, traditional keyword research is all about focusing on the product or service's purchase intent. Meaning, here's let's say Charles over here. Charles needs to better track his fitness. He knows that what he'd like to able to do is get some tools to track his fitness. Maybe he's looking at a Fitbit or something like that.
When we, doing marketing to Charles, have a fitness tracking product or a piece of software or a piece of hardware to offer him, we're thinking about terms like fitness tracking software, track weight loss, workout measurement, and monitor workout progress, very direct, very obvious kinds of search terms that are clearly going to lead Charles from his intent right over to our website.
This is perfect keyword targeting keyword research if you're doing paid search, because with paid search you need a return on that investment right away. You don't want to be bidding on keywords, generally speaking, that are not going to directly bring you sign-ups, conversions, potential costumers.
This is not so true, however, when it comes to SEO. A lot of times when folks look at their SEO campaigns, they go, "Man, the list of keywords that I could target that really say expressly I want a fitness tracking piece of software or a fitness tracking piece of hardware is not that long. Therefore, what else should I create? What other terms could I potentially go after?" That's where you want to do a little bit more of what social display and retargeting does, which is to think about reaching people based on their interests, their attributes, and the actions that they've taken.
If you go to Facebook and you do some ad targeting there, it's not based on, hey, Charles expressly did a search for fitness tracking software. But you can go and find all the people who've labeled fitness as an interest of theirs. You can then further refine by demographics and psychographics, job, location, income, and all these other attributes.
This is what you can do in, for example, Google's Display Planner as well. You can look at I want all the people who've read articles on MensHealth.com. Or you can get even more specific with some kinds of advertising and say, "I only want to advertise in front of people who looked at articles specifically on cross training, because we happen to know that maybe that's that best target group for us."
This is a very cool process too. But in SEO we can actually merge these two things. We can put them together, and a lot of smart SEOs do this. They combine these two practices in their keyword research and targeting. They find people who like fitness, and then they talk to them. They ask them questions. This can be implicit, explicit. This can be through surveys. This can be through interviews. You kind of sit down, and you're like, "Okay, that's really awesome. Can you tell me more about what inspired your love for fitness? Tell me about the content that you looked at prior to this. Tell me about books that you read, people that influenced you, all those kinds of things."
You're trying to gather that information, those subjects of interest. Not just fitness, but other things that they touch on. Content that they may have found or liked before learning that they wanted to track their fitness progress. Websites that they frequently visit. People and brands or accounts that they follow on social media. Who are their influencers?
We learn all this, and now we have kind of this topic set for pre-interest keyword research. Pre-interest, meaning, before the party is actually interested in the product or service or solution that we provide, what are they interested in? We can do keyword research and targeting based on those things.
What's awesome about this is it's like potentially much lower competition, earlier brand exposure, which means that all of our others efforts that are targeting them further down the funnel are likely to be more effective because they've already been exposed to our brand. They know us. Hopefully, they like us already.
This is huge for content marketing. Very rich content opportunities. Usually, content marketing opportunities and content creation opportunities that aren't just purely self-promotional either. You go and create content about this and you're a fitness tracking company, well, that's pretty typical. That's to be expected. It's going to be self-promotional whether it's explicitly promotional or not.
But this type of content is very different. This type of content is all about promoting a movement or promoting information about a topic that you know potentially your subjects will have interest in, in the future, and because of that it's much easier to promote and share without being perceived as prideful and self-promotional, which tamps down a lot of the sharing that you could get.
Instead of things like fitness tracking software, I'm going to get running trails, comparison of cross trainer sneakers, strength training exercises, healthy meals for muscle growth. Awesome.
This is really cool. This process is what you want to use in that keyword research and brainstorming. Start before you get bogged down into, hey, these are the only terms and phrases that we can target because these are the only things that express intent.
Sometimes this might cross over into PPC. Most of the time this is really useful for SEO and content creation.
All right, everyone, I look forward to seeing some tools, tactics, and tips from all of you in the comments. We'll catch you again next week for another edition of Whiteboard Friday. Take care.
Rand, great WBF! Just wanted to add some other great sources for interest-based keyword research that I've collected and used over the years.
Wikipedia -- Great for seeing long-tail keyword phrases, related topics, subjects broken down by logical subtopics, and more -- also good for inspiration for content
Google auto-complete and related searches -- An oldie but goodie
Metaglossary -- Provides long lists of related keywords for an inputed term
Amazon -- Read product descriptions, related categories, and more. Book search and "look inside" can be helpful. Amazon also has search suggestions like Google
eBay -- Search suggestions
Followerwonk / AllMyTweets / Tagcloud -- Scrape an influencer's tweets and bundle all the tweets into a word cloud to see relevant associated phrases. (Replace AllMyTweets with Screaming Frog to do the same for a person's website)
Soovle -- Pulls search suggestions from multiple search engines at once
Ubersuggest -- If you've never heard of this -- go to this site. Now.
Google Trends' Correlate Tool -- Sometimes relevant for seasonal terms or those that relate to real-world events
For more details on these techniques, here are links to articles I've collected on Search Engine Journal, Moz, Search Decoder, Search Engine Journal. Happy research, everyone!
Nice list. I have used ubersuggest in the past but now use keywordtool.io It is faster and more reliable.
If you haven't yet used either tool - they scrape Google Suggest for long tail variations.
Also (as no-one has mentioned it) Webmaster Tools is much neglected. Before searching externally, WT often gives suggestions for keywords that you already rank for but may not have relevant content.
Justin, that is a wonderful tool -- I just took a quick look. Thanks for giving everyone a great tip!
That's one thing I struggle with - understanding how/why some sites I work with rank for seemingly unrelated terms. I think over time their algo's will reduce the amount of related searches that rank. It's still pretty amazing what WMT will show you...
Thanks for the suggestions! I just spend 20min on ubersuggest.org and got a bunch of great new ideas for posts. Very cool tool.
You're welcome!
Never heard of Ubbersuggest before, it's fantastic tool, thanks for this amazing list Samuel Scott
Glad I could help!
Nice!
Adding 7 cool tools for keyword research: https://blog.hubspot.es/marketing/7-mejores-herrami...
I have never heard of ubbersuggest before so I checked but soon I found that keywordtool.io (one of my favourite keyword tool) is more effecient than ubbersuggest
Keyword snatcher / scrapebox is also great for mining a TON of keywords (though it won't give you any of the accompanying data) but at least scrapes all the major commerce marketplaces beyond just search engines, i.e. youtube, ebay, and amazon.
Many tools I didn't know were out there. Thanks for sharing. Can't wait to try them!
Samuel, this is a great list of resources. Thanks for your input, very much appreciated!
My pleasure!
https://ubersuggest.org/ gives best result.. +1
Wow! Thank you for providing so many other ideas, Samuel!
Hi Rand,
Nice post as always.
Any tips on how to handle keyword research in emerging markets where data from the usual sources is simply not available?
Cheers
Stephen
Google Suggest.
But I especially like forum scraping. Forums exist everywhere and about everything, and they are an incredible source for understanding keywords, slangs and interests.
Other source are the open Facebook groups (again, you can discover groups about almost everything).
Finally, asking directly to users in those markets using surveys and not forgetting to talk with people in the company that daily are in contact with the public.
I would add to this any previous client communication in emails, Contact form submissions or letters etc. These can be a great source of the language the client is using and the questions they are asking. Capturing this data is very interesting and can spark off new ideas.
You can copy huge swaths of text from scraped forums into the tag finder in GrepWords and extract any terms/phrases found that actually have traffic. However, you are right, in very nascent industries suggest will be your best bet as it reports searched phrases that aren't popular yet.
Hi Stephen - I'm just getting into the execution of a similar project in a B2B market.
I found that speaking with Sales teams to get a buyer profile built up worked pretty well - understanding the pain points and researching the 'ideal customers' on social media to spot trends across their interests.
If you don't have this (my data was quite limited), a few low spend, highly targeted campaigns worked pretty well, focusing on a minuscule segment.
Just my 2 cents :)
Hi Stephen!
Great question. I would like to add the use of Google Correlate. Is not very notorius but using it with Google Trends together it could help, knowing the trends of some keywords at the same time other keywords would be related (or not). What do you think?
Yup, Google Trends (all of it) and SERPs suggested searches are great, but can offer very few insights in emerging markets (if with emerging markets we mean totally new kind of products or service, hence needs people may not know to have).
Yep, one of my challenges is that in some markets it also seems some users do not really even use Google in the same way as I might. Branded search seems a lot higher for instance as I think traditional media drives this more than people doing research.
Thanks to all who posted above, some really nice ideas there.
This is good idea!
Google trends for sure. Also google news advance search set search for past 24hours or longer if needed
Hey Rand,
Thanks so much for the simple explanation on appropriateness of different targeting for different channels.
I often find myself answering questions on keyword targeting and content development once a manual action is revoked (not actually a service we offer, but happens nevertheless :-))
You just gave me a great resource to share with those people who are facing the prospect of having to do real marketing, sometimes for the first time.
Sha
OMG, nice post Rand. I'm actually doing a keyword research and the information is perfect for me right now. Thank you Rand :)
Quite interesting WBF & worth it! Thanks Rand. Loved your new hairstyle and T-shirt! :)
Being in front of your target audience and displaying a little bit of thought leadership early on in the buying cycle is always going to pay healthy dividends in a long term marketing campaign.
Working with the “big picture” in mind certainly has its advantages, unfortunately too many people are far more focused on instant or short term success.
Fantastic WBF as always Rand.
I do think thank brainstorming is the base of proper keyword research. I mean, if you would just put in the most obvious keywords into a tool like the google keyword tool or ubersuggest, you would only get the related keywords and miss a lot of other potential keywords that would mean something to your target market.
'Talking to customers' is often overlooked (often for budget reasons, to be fair), but you can get so much out of it.
We've been working on a healthcare project with several personas, and the market research highlighted new topics, keywords and even guided us on tone of voice - all for each segment of their market. That guided us on Information Architecture and subsequently, content strategies - and we wouldn't have had any of that without talking to real people.
Hi Rand, great post as always. The pre-interest keyword targeting is indeed a gold mine for SEO, Website developers and content marketers. Starting at the pre-interest keyword phase does take a bit of time and fact finding but the benefit to finding out other highly target keywords that an SEO can use for targeting and as well as content creation far out weighs the time requirement.
Thanks for sharing
Alex
Effective keyword research comes to researching, brainstorming and choosing a perfect keyword which is driving targeted audience to our website. Keyword research is all about how a visitor search for a particular product or service... Just need to know our Audience and think like they do.
Great WBF. I really like the concept of "pre-interest". It also does feel like a more natural way to converse with potential customers/clients. Its easy to see when you're being marketed to. Good marketing in the future will revolve around adding value in addition to selling the core product. It used to be enough to just produce a product and tell people about it. But now to reach customers you need to offer a larger package. I mean look at Nike and their running apps. Thats a perfect example of adding additional value to your core product. You don't need Nike shoes to use the apps but their now able to converse with many more potential customers in a natural way. Anyways.... nice post. :)
Such a great post Rand! This is something we always suggest to our clients as its great for building brand awareness and becoming the expert thought leader in your niche.
For example, we have a bedding client selling mattresses, pillows etc. The site now has a whole new section on sleeping tips with generic questions such as "how much sleep do I need" and "bad backs" which receives some great traffic and brand awareness.
This WBF rocks and hits home for me, because lately I have ran into many different clients that only have a few keywords that we could target for direct SEO exposure. Instead this approach of diving into what the readers may be interested in outside the few focused keywords provides a larger spectrum to cover for conversion, but more so content creation that can become useful and unique much easier.
I plan on bringing this up on my Monday meeting, and as always I will have to give props to WBF and the Moz crew. Please keep up the good work and helping us all be the best internet marketers around.
This a great approach which we try to use regularly. However we are often met by blank expressions on our clients faces when the content created doesn't have a direct sales feel to it. People are often very used to the PPC model of create/target these keywords and see what the return is. To be honest the challenge is ours to educate people that this is a great approach. We like it because it is is a sound, long term foundation on which to build a brand or website. It does take time though and I think a mind shift towards what is more like PR within the SEO world is required.
Our approach is a 2 pronged attack with budget at direct, specific PPC and budget at the less direct brand building.
There is also an issue of the pushy sales online...I think the average searcher is so much more aware of this these days and avoidance tactics are becoming part of their behaviour. We need to engage at a different level and I think this is what you are saying.
Anyway....good job Rand!!
Conclusion:
Do I understand correctly?
Yes, as SEO's we need to do a lot more on the broad spectrum of things and not just hammer people with "buy our product" or "why our product is great". As an example, for a Realtor website in LA you don't need to hammer "buy homes in LA" but you could target "top 5 things to do in LA" that may spark interest in readers to move there.
Keyword research is the very most important task a well rounded digital marketer must do at the beginning of every campaign. Targeting and using the keywords properly requires great amount of creativity and enthusiasm to try unexplored things. Although clients might be reluctant to undertake risky adventures one should create the proper discussion context to brainstorm new ideas and convince.
I like to use a graphic rich mind mapping tool to visualize ideas and link those ideas with live content examples (if any). When you heard the words "research" or "targeting" you always go: Where is my data? I need data!... Forget about the data at the beginning of any brainstorm session think creatively first. The refining process will take care of the rest.
Hi! You talk about "establish conversation" in order to gather some cool information but... ¿how can I create these conversations and where does it happens?
Thank you!
Great Post as always !
Great article Rand ! Thanks so much.
Samuel, thank you for share. Your comment helped me a lot.
Hi Stephen!
Great question. I would like to add the use of Google Correlate. Is not very notorius but using it with Google Trends together it could help, knowing the trends of some keywords at the same time other keywords would be related (or not). What do you think?
This is a great discussion topic, Rand! Sometimes it's hard to break out of the "PPC mindset" (e.g., only looking at terms directly related terms) when doing keyword research. For an e-commerce site, product reviews can provide a lot of insight into what the customer was looking for in a product.
Fantastic WBF as always, Rand. We've found survey data to be very useful in our cross-channel marketing. This data allows us to identify more audience touch points for our clients and keep those consumers engaged. Thanks again!
Great video Rand, totally agree with the points you raised, today's SEO is about focusing subjects which people like to talk about, its not about placements of keywords anymore but making something juicy and consumable.
Thanks for good suggestions,but here's you said paid kws are better rather than searches How could you explain on this?I need further detail.
May be my question is off topic, but I need to ask one thing. Does Moz allow to repost a piece of content that's extensively useful?
Do you mean reposting one of Moz's pieces of content, or submitting a piece of existing content to Moz?
Any ideas for generating ideas for a criminal defense attorney? Obviously, it's a bit broad to try to "find the interests" of such a broad base of customers. Such a great post! I always LOVE the whiteboard Friday's and pretty much everything I read from you guys. Thanks for being such a fantastic/interesting/fun to read resource!
You should start by understanding the customer by asking the attorney what type of client he had found himself working with. Let's assume there's at least two possible types of clients here: the offender and offender's relatives. The "intent” should be different between them.
Ideas: One thing that could help is to determine the attorney targeted geographic area. It is useful to know if he is working at state, city or county level. Either case a list of police stations, hospitals, courts, bail bond companies in his jurisdiction would help to identify the product and services associated with his area of expertise. Basically identify his network “of providers” and set an strategy to position himself as the best attorney in the network. Hope this helps ;)
That is great insight, Paul! We've written specifically for the relatives of our clients, but not as much as we should. That's a great idea. As for what type of client we're working with, it's so broad, because we are criminal defense lawyers - our clients and their relatives are all different types of people from every walk of life. We do have a list of courts and jails (offering helpful info on each jail that is difficult to find on the government website) in the area, as we work on a County and city level. Adding bail bond companies, hospitals, and other related providers is a fantastic idea. Thank you so much for the insight!
Great topic. If you can generate awareness via thought leadership content using these pre-interest keywords, you'll be top of mind when it comes time to buy. There's a good chance that you're naturally doing this anyway as a content marketer, but it's worthwhile to spend some time actually researching these keywords.
Rand the Moz Wizard strikes again!
I was actually discussing this very topic with a coworker yesterday. He has always put significant focus on customer intent/products and services rather than the underlying base work, and it is great to have someone back me up.
There are so many factors involved in content marketing and keyword targeting that it can be hard to make general rules, but I would ask you to bear with me and give it a try.
Have those who have tried this approach (or something similar) found that the ROI, traffic, conversions (whatever you are going for) has proven worth the work and research involved? What resources would you suggest I read over for more information?
I would love to get the content development team in our building moving in this direction but I need to be able to show that it can be worth it in the first place before I pitch it. Thanks for any and all tips ahead of time!
Doing a cohort analysis is a good way to find new keywords based on your audience interests.
You can also build an ideagraph to further expand your keywords list. It will also, most likely, help to diferentiate your site from competition.
wow.. this WBF was really great. Thanks Rand! Any tool suggestion for user intent keywords hacking?
I know its just an example but I think "strength training exercises" and "fitness diets" are some of the most competitive topics, more then the primary keywords you mentioned. :-)
To find topics I like to check google suggestions for question words + keyword (how, what, why, who, where,..). Often problems are discussed in forums so specifically searching for forums including some keywords helps also. In my opinion "accidents and safety" are also good content marketing topics. Many products have some kind of safety problems. Example: through the "Consumer Product Safety Commission" for example I found out that most accidents with snow blowers happen because they get clogged with wet snow and people put their hands inside to solve the problem, in the process breaking or loosing some fingers. So I wrote a long text explaining all possibilities how to prevent snow blower clogging and what to do if it happens.
Nice WBF Rand...Awesome Ideas for Keyword reasearch, realy the idea will work....... when we will reach all related people to our service, definitely we will increase our click through rate and we can rank our major & high competative Keywords....For that we have to give more and more information with different long tail keywords about our services....Then, we will reach our target cudstomers...Thanks A Lot...Rand for Nice WBF....
@Stelian Mezin Thanks!!!
I'm glad if it was useful. A good video if you're interested to know more about ideagraph:
The ideagraph - whiteboard friday
That's a really interesting idea. Expanding what your target audience could also associate your business with is actually a really interesting idea for link building as well.
Ehhh You get more traffic focusing on long tail. Most search google see haven't been seen in the last year. Indexing is very important. So is implementing things like Schema. Also there is alot of shades of grey when it comes to building links. I believe Negative Seo is going to be here and change the landscape again. I already see it happening.
Great SEO Tips here. Clearly someone who understands the industry (of which there are not as many as you'd think!). I feel you points are well laid out and you obviously have the industry in mind. Power to the SEO bod! Viva La SEO revolution!
If setup google analtics can give you info about intrests etc about your current users that can be used to come up with new ideas aswell. Also google has a beta out for adwords around gmail ads that is also usefull for research.
Love it when you hack the basics of SEO Rand, great post! Reminds me in a way of Ian's random affinities post https://moz.com/blog/growing-your-audience-with-random-affinities
Hey Rand,
Talk about perfect timing, our acquisition team is rolling out some new ads and we just had a meeting yesterday about digging deep into keyword research.
I was explaining this process (a little) about digging deeper into interest and demographics to find the appropriate keywords. I just watched your video and shared it with the team to help them better understand.
Happy Friday
@Gianluca great suggestions, thanks! forum scraping would be one of my favorites :) thanks for sharing!
Hi Eugenio! Just a quick note to let you know that you can reply to a particular comment -- there's a button on each one, and that'll keep your reply with the original comment. If you just post a new one, it can get lost in the mix, as these are sorted by the number of thumbs they have.
Cheers!
so if i want to target such keywords like "meeting venue in london" so this change into "meeting places where people engagements" like that. I think its the combination of trending and social media keywords phrase.
Great Post again ! I always put Keyword targeting on the top list.
Too good strategy to find keywords directly your business focused. That's What I'm Looking For Exactly.
Good Job for SEO the keywords are very important. Thanks for your article.
Great Post... Love the passion you showed on the subject.
Great post Rand! This is a subject which often comes up with our clients. Great to have a post to refer to now
Nice post !!! I Keyword research is always one of the best part in SEO.