It was a balmy 85 degrees (30 C) on this late Friday afternoon as I arrived in the Dominican Republic's bustling capitol city of Santo Domingo to meet with and interview search marketing entrepreneur, blogger, and industry visionary, Mr. Hamlet Batista. With almost 10 million citizens, D.R. ranks number 82 in population among the 193 nations of the world. In quick fashion, Hamlet has established himself as a search industry "A-lister," due to the technical depth and visionary insight he has offered with article contributions and challenging, thought-provoking commentary on his personal blog as well as SEOmoz and other search industry community websites. While many readers recognize Hamlet as a frequent contributor and commenter on SEOmoz, what you may not know is that Hamlet is also the President & CEO of NEMedia, the developers of recently released SEO Automation Software, RankSense.
I originally contacted Hamlet requesting an interview to discuss his views on the current state of SEO Automation as well as where he felt the industry was headed. I ended up with more than I bargained for. Hamlet not only agreed to the interview, but also invited me to visit and tour his corporate offices in Santo Domingo and to spend the weekend as a personal guest at his sprawling, luxurious golf resort villa nestled in the tropical, Caribbean seaside resort of Casa de Campo.
The following is a partial transcript from our extensive interview; providing some brief insight into this soft spoken and humble, yet intensely focused and immensely successful businessman.
Enjoy!
Hamlet, first let me thank you for your generous offer to visit with you this weekend to learn more about your views on the search industry and particularly where you feel SEO automation is headed.
Thank you for visiting, Sean. I know you pushed a lot of things aside to make it happen and it's been great to have you here.
Hamlet, it wasn't until after we first spoke that I learned you were based in the Dominican Republic. As anyone who follows major league baseball knows, the Dominican Republic has a rich history of producing top quality professional baseball players such as Pedro Martinez, Vladimir Guerrero, Sammy Sosa, and the legendary Juan Marichal - just to name a few. But search industry executives? This is quite a surprise.
Yes. It does raise some eyebrows when we tell people we produce something other than great ball players. Dominican businesses are just starting to branch out into e-commerce, and with SEO/SEM our company is at least several years ahead of the local market. It is particularly funny when I have to explain our SEO software business to banks here.
But the Internet is an international market, and my entrepreneurial dream has always been about developing amazing software. I soon realized that my technical background was not enough to create a successful product. I needed to fund the development and I needed to learn to market it. I was fortunate enough to stumble upon affiliate marketing in my early years. It taught me so much about online marketing, while at the same time helping me to accumulate enough funds to create my software company. As you know, RankSense was developed during the course of more than three years.
As an affiliate, it didn't take long to realize that search engines were the best source of traffic and conversions. After several months doing PPC profitably, I decided to learn and experiment with organic search and SEO. The huge difference in returns between SEO and PPC made it essential to focus more time and effort on SEO and link building. I can say that I would not be anywhere near where I am today if I had stuck to PPC.
While doing SEO, it also became common practice for me to develop custom scripts and automate many of the repetitive tasks. Of course, I did hire smart people, too, as there are things like effective link building that require human interaction. I am immensely proud and very fortunate I was able to assemble the development team that works on RankSense.
So, if I understand correctly, your early successes in search were based primarily around pay per click (ppc) as an affiliate marketer. Is that correct?
That is correct. I have to thank Ken Envoy for his affiliate master course. I don't agree with some of the things I read (for instance, working on second-tier or third-tier PPC engines, as my tests proved their traffic is not very useful), but generally speaking I am glad that his book set me off in the right direction. As most things in business and life, you don't know for sure if something will work or not until you test it yourself. PPC teaches you a great deal and I suggest that every SEO should spend some time learning it. The biggest benefit is that it teaches you to focus on making money, not just on driving traffic to a website. You learn which traffic, ad copy, and landing pages convert versus that which is just taking up bandwidth. You also learn exactly which keywords are the most important.
When I started, I went after some of the most competitive keywords. I managed to get several of my sites ranking for Viagra, payday loans, mortgage, life insurance, and affiliate programs. Unfortunately, while advertisers pay between $5 to 15 dollars or more for those keywords, they are only profitable for the merchant that is directly selling the service or product; not so much for the affiliate. That is one of the reasons I expanded my business by creating my own network and recruiting affiliates.
Another thing I learned while competing for such competitive, high traffic keywords is that automation is key to scale and being successful. While my competitors were doing everything by hand or hiring countless staff to do the work, I spent time automating and improving the processes. This was the premise of my original goal of developing software, and it made perfect sense for me to write a more useful and easy-to-use SEO product.
After some extensive discussion on Hamlet's experiences and successes in PPC and Affiliate marketing, our conversation focused squarely on the hot and somewhat controverisal topic of SEO Automation.
Hamlet, yesterday I had the opportunity to meet with and talk to your development team in Santo Domingo and to gain some visibility into the current release and roadmap of your RankSense SEO Automation software. While I must admit I was impressed with what I saw, there seems to be both vocal advocates and equally vocal opponents of SEO Automation software. Bottom line - Do you really think SEO can be automated?
I think the problem is about semantics. When people mention SEO automation, many people think about a magical tool that automatically pushes any URL to the top of the rankings. Most people would love to see such a tool (including me), but unless you are talking about black-hat SEO tactics, that is definitely a topic for science fiction. SEO cannot be completely automated at this time.
That being said, what is wrong with trying to automate as much as possible? I am really surprised when I hear pessimists speak negatively about SEO automation. I am positive that not a single one of them can do their jobs without using at least one SEO tool. Think about keyword research, for example.
Automation is what man has been doing for the past few centuries. Progress has to do a lot with efficiency, and that is what SEO automation should be like, too.
So, if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that SEO can never really be fully automated; however, it is critical for SEOs, in order to remain competitive and to scale, to automate as many best-in-class SEO tasks as possible. Is that a fair statement?
Certainly. In order to remain competitive and service the increasing demand for SEO services you need to automate repetitive tasks. It also lowers the learning curve so that you can get new employees up to speed fast.
That’s a great point about the learning curve, especially when it comes to an SEO scaling their business. What are those trends that you feel will drive a broad based adoption of SEO Automation software?
I think the first one is the pressure to compete. If your competitor is doing it and you aren’t, you are going to be at a disadvantage. Another is the need to do more with less time and resources. SEO software like RankSense can be used as a training tool so that you learn while doing it, but experts can also use it in order to accomplish more in less time. It is a product that serves a broad range of needs.
Is RankSense a product for SEOs, Bloggers, Small or Large businesses? What segment/s does RankSense primarily target?
At this stage, we are primarily targeting small business owners, but the software is designed with integrated support for copywriters and most blogging platforms too. We also think it is very useful for SEM agencies and SEOs because they can do so much with it. We started working on an enterprise edition of the software with a client-server approach, multi-user support, and more powerful reporting. That edition will be targeted primarily at ad agencies and larger accounts.
Without discussing specific companies, it seems that some SEO software companies have achieved some limited success. Where do you think they are falling short?
We've looked at the SEMPO reports, and it is very interesting that SEO/SEM software companies command such a small piece of the pie. My bet is that they are not bringing enough value to the table or are too complex to use. Simply put, if the results are there, people will buy it. On the other hand, if people have to spend two weeks in training to use a piece of software, the adoption rate decreases significantly. Everybody wants a tool that they can use instantly and that delivers results. We always kept those two things in mind while developing RankSense.
As we both know, there are dozens of "SEO tools" on the market, whether they are web based or stand alone products. What makes RankSense unique? Does RankSense have any patented technology?
The biggest difference with RankSense is that it is more about making you a productive SEO than performing a specific SEO task. We focus on results, not only the process. I like to think about it like any productivity software—MS Office, Adobe’s Creative Suite, etc. These products give writers and artists the tools they need to create impressive things. RankSense does exactly that for SEO. It is not so much a single tool as it is a productivity platform to research, play with ideas, and implement SEO on your site. The results can be truly impressive.
On the usability end, RankSense has several innovations and patent pending processes that reduce or eliminate many of the technical aspects of SEO and, at the same time, offer a lot of convenience and simplicity as the software can make most decisions for you. It treats SEO as a single process from start to finish where all the tools cooperate and work together to help you optimize your pages. So RankSense will be particularly attractive to non-technical people that want to learn or perform SEO on their sites.
Of course, for experts it can behave like a more traditional toolbox with all the SEO-related tools at your fingertips. Maybe I designed that part a little for myself. ;-) I would say this is a higher level integrated SEO suite as opposed to the task specific tools on the market at the moment.
When did the RankSense product officially launch?
RankSense is already available for trial and purchase, but we have not officially launched the product yet. The plan is to do that at SMX West at the end of this month. We will have a booth (224) and we also plan to do a theater presentation on “The Future of SEO Automation.”
I understand RankSense has been more than three years in the making. Clearly, you have a significant investment in the software. As you introduce RankSense to the market, do you intend to continue funding the growth of the company internally?
Well, that was my original goal. However, development took far more time and money than I was expecting. I have made a lot of personal sacrifices to make this happen; my wife thinks I am crazy, of course! :- ) Moving forward, I will likely start looking for serious investors once the product has proven itself in the market and we have more realistic projections.”
Final question. Is there a way for SEOmoz readers and others in the SEO community test RankSense and see the product in action?
Sure. We are currently developing a new site and new video for the launch, but they can go to www.ranksense.com right now and download a full featured free trial. We also have an affiliate and partner program running for those that might be interested in earning commissions on sales of the RankSense software.
I'm sure many of the Mozzers will be interested in giving it a try and providing some feedback on their experience. Hamlet, once again I want to thank you and wish you continued success with RankSense!
It’s been my pleasure. Many thanks to you, Sean.
Sean Maguire is Managing Partner & Principal Consultant of 360SELL, Inc., a sales and marketing consulting firm headquartered in Austin, Texas. Full disclosure – 360Sell has provided consulting services to NEMedia.
@ Calamier - thanks for the Sphinn. Hamlet, like many successful executives I've met throughout my career is very humble about his own accomplishments. He's also one of the smartest individuals I've met. It was not surprising to see how dedicated and loyal his team is. They seem to have a great sense of pride in what they are doing.
@ Rand. I'm honored by the generous compliment and appreciate both the forum and audience you provide for people to learn here at SEOmoz. I know that Hamlet is excited to meet the SEOmoz team next week at SMX West. As for the "on location" interview, I'm sure you can appreciate it was a difficult decision agreeing to suffer through the tropical breezes in Casa de Campo! Hamlet is quite the generous host. :)
@ Lorisa. Thank you for the compliment. I was glad to be able to provide some insight into both the business and private life of Hamlet.
On a final note - a very special thanks to Rebecca, who pushed this article through despite the great deal of workload and pressure she is under in preparation of SMX West. Rebecca - you're a gem.
edited to tell Rebecca how awesome she is.
Sean, what is the NEMedia team like? How many, what positions, etc? Surely hamlet wouldn't mind if you divuldged such information :D
Edit : to second the "rebecca is awesome" point.
@ Calamier - I know that at one point, Hamlet had in excess of twenty NEMedia employees when they were in the "full blown" development stage. They currently have over 20,000 hours invested in the software.
Now that the product is being released, he has scaled back a bit, to about 5 or 6 full-time developers that are devoted exclusively to RankSense and I think he has about 15 or so NEMedia employees in total. He is currently in the process of planning to expand sales, marketing and operations in support of the launch.
Interestingly, he also has a few other business ventures, including a company called Nveevo that provides outsourced 24x7 online web support to a wide range of companies. They have a call center co-located at NEMedia's headquarters that provides this support in several different languages - including English, Spanish & German.
Needless to say, Hamlet is quite an enterprising individual.
"Surely hamlet wouldn't mind if you divuldged such information"
Not at all. Maybe I should publish a post introducing everybody working at Nemedia.
That would be awesome, Hamlet.
As the newest of the newbies in things Internet Business related, I feel hardly able to make a meaningful contribution here, but did want to just add that your site and something I read of Hamlet Batista's just this week encouraged me to get serious about educating myself in the opportunities out there. Even if I do not eventually enter the field, I have learned so much already that I can use in my 'other life' on the computer. Great stuff--far above my current needs most of it, but I'll just keep adding to my virtual library of facts. Thanks again to both of you. n.kateus www.ipowerdirect.net
Wow, Sean; you're travelling internationally to research YOUmoz posts now? I think you just raised the bar :)
I've enjoyed Hamlet's blog and it's great to see him in his natural habitat (although I'm jealous that it looks so much warmer than mine right now). I really enjoyed the comments about automation; there's a big difference between a magic wand and building tools to make our lives easier. SEO is getting more complex every day, and it's only natural that we should create better products to manage the process. Looking forward to seeing RankSense in action.
That was an awesome interview, thanks a lot, Sean and Hamlet. That's not my style to envy people but I do envy both of you - Sean for travelling and Hamlet for going to SMX :(
To the point - I heard about RankSense launch a bit earlier (thanks to Hamlet) and have been seriously planning to try it in action. I promise to share my thoughts either at YOUMoz or my own blog (or better both).
On a separate note, I think Hamlet has been doing such a great job sharing his ideas on SEO with all of us (both here and his blog) that we all should help him in announcing RankSense launch at our blogs. What do you think, Mozzers?
Absolutely fantastic interview, Sean. The in-person visit and thorough collection of screenshots and answers make this one of my all-time favorite posts on YOUmoz.
Hamlet - congrats on the launch of RankSense. I can't wait to see the demo at SMX West next week!
Sean - Thanks again for your visit and for the nice things you say about us.We are extremely excited about next week. At last, I will be able to show the world what we've been doing and meet in person the mozzers and the rest of the search marketing community that has been so good to me. Calamier - Thanks a lot for the Sphinn and your kind words.Rand - Thank you very much for your wishes. I wish you and SEOmoz the best in your launch of SEOmoz PRO at SMX. I hopewe can find some time to meet and talk. There are so many things I need to thank you for.Thanks, Lorisa.Noni - I am glad you found something useful on my blogDr. Pete - Thanks. One thing we miss here is the different seasons you have in other parts of the world. Here we have the sameweather the whole year!Thanks, Gab
Wow, i've always admired Hamlet Batista, but I never knew he had such successful ventures!
I vote for promotion to main blog!
Rand, Rebecca - Thanks you very much for the main blog promotion. You've been far too generous with me and I will never forget it. I can wait to meet you at SMX next week.
Ann, Sean, everybody - Thanks for the support. I will sleep less and post more in order to make it up to you.
Cheers
My pleasure, Hamlet. Sean clearly put a lot of work into this interview, and it's a very good one at that. Combine that with a lot of positive thumbs and comments and, well, promotion was a no-brainer. :)
Well, what can I say that hasn't already been said above? The fact that I've been increasingly intrigued by Hamlet's blogging and the RankSense software lately (downloaded a free trial just last week) makes this excellent YOUmoz post even more enticing to me.
I'd lavish Sean with compliments on his job well done here, but from the look of things above I think I'd better just add my own clap to the applause. Well done, sir.
As regards SEO automation, I think there are a lot of things that can/should be automated for the day-to-day tasks such as keyword research, checking on the number of indexed pages, keeping an eye on rankings, etc. As it is right now I use about a dozen or so tools to handle all of this - my hope for RankSense is that it'll allow me to do everything with from one central interface.
That said, I don't think we'll ever get to place where SEO will be completely automated. There is a very human element to SEO, especially when we begin to incorporate usability and driving conversions into our work.
Maybe we'll one day have software that can visually review a page, perform complex calculations based on human behavioral tendencies, evaluate the copy to determine the likelihood of persuasion for a given marketing persona and estimate how many conversions we're going to get...but that sounds pretty creepy to me. Thankfully, I think users adapt at such a rate that we'll never quite get there. If we do...well, we've all seen The Matrix...
Great interview, great pictures! Thanks for all your hard work, Sean and Hamlet. I second the "main blog" nomination!
Well done Sean.
Way to go above and beyond for the in-person interview.
You might have found a new niche among SEO bloggers - you can be the guy that travels to exotic locales to do the in-person interviews.
Of course I noticed you picked the Dominican Republic for this mid-winter interview and not some place like Montreal or even Seattle ;-)
And Hamlet - simply fantastic - thank you.
Wait, I want to be exotic locale traveler/interviewer! (Is there even such a position? Rand?)
"Why yes rebecca, there is, it falls under the duties of the seomoz CEO, so glad you asked..." - Rand
Damnit. Always a bridesmaid...
Ohhhh come on now, certainly there's some value in flying to and fro about the country 5-10 times a year for various SEM conferences? Quite a perk if you ask me :)
The operative word is "exotic," mind you...
Oh right...
Nothing really exotic about marketers is there :) Exotic marketing...what a concept...
@ Vin - Thanks. That's great. Maybe I could do "Lifestyles of The Rich and Famous SEO's!" I could be the Robin Leech of the SEO world -
"Web traffic wishes and Organic SERP dreams!"
@Noni - Welcome to SEOmoz
@Pete - It was great to get a break. I had been to D.R. several times in the past and Hamlet's invite came at a time that I could really use the break. I highly recommend the South Coast - especially where we were in La Romana, for a relaxing vacation. I'm looking to spend more time delving into RankSense myself.
@ Gab - Ya gotta do what ya gotta do! ;) I've been keeping up with your blog. You're doing some great things. Congrats. See you at SMX West.
@ Hamlet - I can't tell you what a pleasure it's been getting to know you. It amazed me to see how much you've accomplished over the last 5 or 6 years and I'm sure you have a great future ahead. Please also extend my thanks to your team, and particularly Harold - a tremendously talented developer. It was great meeting them all. See you at SMX!
@ Lindop - Thank you for the compliment. It may be grey and rainy in London - but it's still one of my favorite cities in the world! As for automation, as Hamlet said - you can't automate all of SEO, but if there are some elements that are essential and that can be done more quickly and automatically while freeing up your time for those activities that require human creativity, it only makes sense.
@k0k1man - Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Highly impressed Sean. Highly impressed!
I am jealous of your compliment from Rand . . . but he is dead on accurate. Best YOUmoz post ever!
This post is a great IRS justification too if they ever audit you. ;-)
Brent D. Payne
Great interview Sean, it's grey and rainy in England :( and even those few screenshots have changed my perception of what SEO automation can be - I previously had images of comment spamming, optimal keyword density metrics and link buying email templates :)
But the MS Office/ Adobe CS suite for SEO? That's something I simply have to try out. No mention of price here though.
Lindop
Very informative. Great sunday morning reading. Covers so much. Congratulations
I enjoyed the interview immensely. Thoughtful questions! What a great insight into future applications and possibilities for SEO. Can't wait to hear more as the product continues to evolve :O)
Thanks Sean. I'd be very interested to hear whether SEO professionals feel threatened by this kind of software?
Will it be another 'arrow in the quiver' for SEOs or will it pave the way for their extinction as webmasters and particularly small business owners decide that actually they can do their SEO in-house?
OK, OK- 'extinction' is a bit of an exaggeration, but could SEO automation at least streamline the numbers who are able to survive in the industry?
Personally I don't feel there's any substitute for constant research and creativity, and as Hamlet says in the interview you can't automate the entire SEO process. But I think it could have an effect of demistifying SEO and impact the side of the industry that relies on the preception of SEO as an impenetrable dark art...
In order to have a biz life where you’re gone most, if not all, of the time you need hire smart ....
kudos for this very informative piece, great interview!
I just downloaded free trial version,it is a awesom tools that ranksense can help me to improve the quality and relevance of my web page for the keywords and phrases that i desire.Wonderful!
I will have to visit your booth at SMX, Hamlet, and shake your hand. The good news is that I do not have to get a passport to meet you! I just have to make a 900 mile round-trip and crash at my cousin's apartment up in Mountain View. I've just an hour ago made the final decision that I'm going. Thanks to Natasha for suggesting to me that the trip is possible.
Oh the adventure! Santa Clara is exotic enough for me at this stage. I can't even imagine travelling to exotic locations, such as the Dominican Republic, for interviews.
I'll definitely have to drop by to check out Ranksense. Rand you can no-doubt expect me to hunt you down and shake your hand. All you other mozzers at SMX, I can't wait to meet you in person.
@ Ann - Thank you! Your idea of helping to promote RankSense by announcing from our individual blogs is very generous.
@ Rebecca - Thank you again.,,and again...and again.
@ Brent - Wow! Thank you. It's good to know that I can always use you as a reference in the event of an audit! ;)
@ Big Tequila - Mike - From on Long Islander to another - Thank you! Great comment. I wholeheartedly agree that SEO will never be completely automated. There's just too much dynamism and requirement of human creativity in achieving optimal results. Unless you could create software that consistently writes compelling original content and executes high value link strategies, just to name a couple of requirements, full SEO automation will never happen. That said, I subscribe fully to what Hamlet preaches and to what I suspect at the end of the day is the mindset of most, if not all SEO's. That tools and software have their place and to the extent that they can help us automate our processes, they free us up to focusing more of our time on higher level creative pursuits with our customers. What I think we are seeing in RankSense is an evolution of technology as the practice of SEO continues to mature.
Absolutely wonderful interview guys. Hamlet, just an FYI: on the ranksense "overview" page, the link (at the bottom of the page) to the trial download is broken... there is an extra "/" at the end. Just thought you should know :)
Thanks for the heads up, Burgo! I will make sure to get it fixed.
I just tried out the RankSense demo. As anyone else tried it? Didn't I get it, or you can only try the keyword discovery tool in the trial, is everything else pretty much deactivated?
tasks are activated as you make progress. Switch to classic mode for direct access. imtyping from phone.
thanks for your comments.
Felicidades Hamlet por el lanzamiento, should be great to visit you when I go back to Santo Domingo and learn from you!.