So you want a career in SEO? Or maybe you already have an SEO role and it's time for a change. Well, I've been doing SEO for five years now and I can safely say that I've endured the pros and cons of almost every type of SEO career situation. So let me give you some insight on the good, bad, and ugly for all of them.
What's an SEOMoz post without graphics? I'm partial to the Mr. Men characters by Roger Hargreaves, I tend to use them in my presentations to bring what I'm talking about to life. So let's meet the key players:
Mr. Persnickety – This is me. This is you. This is the SEO. You know your stuff very well, you come with case studies and analytics to make your points but it is essentially your job to tell people who have gone as far as to win awards in their capability that they are doing everything wrong. You are oftentimes the conductor of a cacophonic symphony – that's why you wear a bowtie.
Little Miss Stubborn –Will be playing various members of the defensive Creative Team (Copywriter, Art Director, Creative Director, Graphic Designer). They are very stuck in their ways and instead of building for SEO they'd rather try to retrofit SEO and effectively placing a band-aid over the mouth of an active volcano.
Mr. Lazy – Will be playing the part of the Tech Department or the Web Developer who most likely knows the right way to do things but likes to take a shortcut instead because they think you don't know enough to push back when they say they can't do something. Note to non-technical SEOs: LEARN HOW TO BUILD A WEBSITE!
Mr. Nonsense – Will be playing the Account Manager. Depending on the agency these guys usually don't have any idea what you do. They sell based on what the client is asking for rather than what you can actually provide. By definition it is their job to make the client happy which means you will be responsible for unreasonable requests that keep you at work until 10PM. These are the people that will make your life very very hard.
Mr. Fussy – This is your boss. This guy typically knows just enough about everything to be annoying. He'll drop buzzwords of the day out of context like “siloing” and “canonical redirect” because he follows Bruce Clay's blog and has never touched a site before in his life. He will also complain to you about things like utilization.
Mr. Impossible – Will be playing the client. He wants you wave your magic SEO wand and make his thin ad copy based content rank #1 for highly competitive terms. He wants you to drive conversions with landing pages that were clearly not optimized for conversion. He wants exact projections of when he can expect rankings. He doesn't care if you emailed 10,000 people he only sees that you only got seven links. He wants to dominate every position in the SERPs – today and he wants it all for as close to free as possible. After all Organic Search is "free" traffic, right?
Note: If I've worked with you in the past and you think I'm using these characters to personify you -- you're right.
Now that we got our key players, let's talk about the playing fields.
Agencies have the highest allure for digital. They make me think of scenes from "Who's the Boss" where Angela Bower ran her own Ad agency with the constant shuffle of people busy making the world turn. They make me think of the off-the-wall Creative ideas scribbled on whiteboards and the brand rooms that house their realizations. They make me think of drinking beer at my desk, and brainstorming meetings that birth viral campaigns so successful your friends send them to you rather than you having to beg them to watch in order to get your views up.
As far as SEO, agencies allow you to make your SEO success real for your friends and family. Up until about a month or so ago I could say "hey man Google 'sweaters.' Yep, I helped make that happen" because I worked on Ralph Lauren and they were #1 for sweaters in location-agnostic searches in March and April. Sure I could have already said that for [insert small company you never heard of here] but to be involved in brands that everyone is aware of is next level. In short, agencies are cool.
I separate agencies into two types. There are boutique agencies where SEO is the main focus and there are other capabilities that they support to facilitate SEO. These agencies can have any type of client from small to enterprise. Then there's what I'm going to call fully featured digital agencies. These agencies have a large department for every different capability. They are generally full of very smart people, there is a constant pipeline of Fortune 500 business and companies like Google fill their lobbies with branded ping pong tables and sofas to thank them for continuing to pump money through Adwords.
Overall Pros of Agencies:
- People know their stuff – In an agency you are generally surrounded by people that are leaders in their field and are on the cutting edge of industry trends.
- Diversity of Client Portfolio – In an agency you are not tied to one niche or one type of client so it doesn't get boring and the things you learn from one client you can apply to another.
Overall Cons of Agencies:
- Employee Turnover – The average lifespan in my experience at agencies is about two years. This is because it's not hard to learn the next level's job and once you do it's not hard to convince another agency that you are worth more money. It's actually gotten so bad that holding companies have developed programs that allow you to bounce between agencies. So this is clearly not a con for an SEO's pocket however the work and client relationships do suffer.
- Live and Die by Business Development – Depending on how the agency is set up if a client does not renew then that means a bunch of employees are getting laid off or there are no new hires and the agency has to contract and everyone has to do double duty. Unless of course you are upper management then you are mostly safe until there is some sort of merger.
Boutique Agency
My boutique agency experience is interesting and as I look at billboards and SEPTA bus ads for a local SEO agency or I see agencies that use their TopSEOs.com ranking as a selling point, I wonder how many people at boutique agencies are having the same experiences. Typically boutique SEO agencies are just that. While they may fill in the other capabilities around SEO as needed such as presentation layer and back end web development, a lot of them just focus on SEO.
I got my start in SEO at a boutique agency in 2006 as a technical analyst (read: web monkey). The place I worked at had some talent but we were basically an SEO chop shop. The owner got into it early somehow and built it into something big enough where he drove a Mercedes SL350 and lived in penthouse apartment downtown. Our production team was seven people at its largest. We had three Account Managers, three Technical Analysts, and an Art Director and about 50 small to mid-level clients. Our sales team was 15 people cold calling companies on an autodialer that scraped WHOIS records.
We were effectively the Walmart of SEO promising results and timeframes that were unrealistic. They'd taught me all I knew about SEO so I had no idea; I just kept on with the keyword stuffing and the hundreds of quick links across the bottom of the page and the bold and italics on every instance of the keyword. I had no idea that not redirecting non-www to www could lead to a duplicate content issue. Our link-building consisted of me spending hours searching for [keyword] + add url and posting links to anything I could find. Needless to say we rarely (if ever) delivered; clients blew up our phone daily and my then-boss never answered the phone which ultimately led to credit card charge backs.
Ultimately my boss got fired and I became the boss and I actually delivered to the best of my ability. That is the say the work they'd taught me to do I actually got done for our clients. I stayed as late as 10pm sometimes, I let clients call me at home and I hacked Zen Cart to make it easier for the client to input products. I worked my behind off and in the end even though I didn't know that we were doing 1999 SEO in 2006 I did know that the owner wasn't about delivering quality results for the clients so I'd had enough. Guys like him give our industry a bad name.
Granted my experience is not indicative of the experience to be had at reputable boutique agencies like SEER Interactive or Portent Interactive, so let's distill (no pun) it down to pros and cons that you may find in both cases.
Pros of Boutique Agencies
- Familial Atmosphere– People are less about having an ego and more about getting the job done. It's essentially the startup "let's make it happen" ethos in which people are trying to pull their weight to build something successful. Your coworkers become more of a close-knit family that shares victories, has group lunches and pushes each other to be better.
- Agility – Boutique agencies have the ability to stop on a dime, fail fast and adopt early. Who do you think is already implementing Schema.org markup and complaining about the two seconds Google's +1 adds to page load time? I'm going to guess it isn't R/GA.
- Hands-On Approach – In my experience at larger SEO agencies we don't do any implementation which makes the process very annoying. However at the boutique agency we did all the implementations so we saw the results and could tweak as needed. I understand why but I sorely miss the ability to do that these days.
Cons of Boutique Agencies
- Clients Expect the World for $5 – Clients are generally smaller for boutique agencies and if they are not smaller they expect to pay your company less because you're smaller. Despite that they still expect performance at the speed of light for such a low rate. They believe since they are paying you that they own you and your "little agency."
- Team is Often Spread Thin – Your team is doing double duties because there are only five of you but there are a hundred clients to make sure your owner is making money. You're an account manager, copywriter, developer, and a short order cook. One of those balls you're juggling is going to fall. You should have juggled eggs instead so when they fall you finally have time to eat – multitasking!
- Lack of Clout – You're not going to be visited by the Google fairy with branded basketballs and throw rugs. You aren't running $50 million through Adwords monthly, so you don't have a Google rep that gives you the exact numbers from the internal Adwords keyword tool. You're a civilian on the battlefield but at least you're MacGyver.
Full-featured Digital Agency
This is the primetime. My full-featured digital agency experience has been a fast-paced roller coaster full of impressive successes and disheartening setbacks. It's truly a challenge of wills because you are dealing with your stereotypical digital prima donnas but it is very exciting work so it's worth it.
I moved to a big agency after an in-house gig and was quite surprised by the fact that we just wrote about SEO best practices rather than implemented them and that we did so many menial tasks by hand. Truthfully the job felt kind of intimidating because I was surrounded by people who really got the results for highly competitive terms. In my interview they asked me "what would you do if a client was targeting an impossibly competitive term like 'tv'?" and I said something to the effect of "tell them to pick an easier keyword." These were the guys that could rank #1 for "tv" so all I wanted to do was learn from them.
It was a great learning experience; there were all types of awesome resources, coworkers bringing back great info and tools from conferences, great training sessions, discounts and free offerings from all types of places. Many times when I'd sign up for an API or inquire about software people were very receptive and went out of their way to be helpful due to what was behind the @ symbol in my email. In short, it was an incredible experience and I learned a lot from leaders in the field. After seven months of jedi SEO training I landed a gig at another agency where I now lead SEO.
These days I have a ton of meetings internally and with clients and it's hard to wrangle other capabilities into doing what needs to be done but when things align properly, I'm accomplishing SEO the right way on the big agency level the right way – or at least my way. It's a lot of work but it's oh so rewarding!
Pros of Full-featured Digital Agencies
- Clientele – I like walking through the King of Prussia mall and being able to point at the different high end stores and say I do their SEO. The perks of working for these brands can be pretty incredible too; let's just say I don't pay retail for any home electronics or home appliances. The other cool thing from an SEO standpoint of working with big brands is that they generally already have a ton of links so you really get to see large scale ranking changes when you fix something simple.
- Work with Rockstars – Adamanatium sharpens adamantium. You're surrounded by very smart people who have mastered something that you haven't had time to. The information sharing and friendly competition is going to make you better at what you do at an exponential rate. I was obviously a good SEO before I got my first big agency job but I learned more in three months at that job than I'd learned in the three years prior. Ok that's an exaggeration, but I learned a lot, yo!
- Resources – You want training in Omniture? You want to go to MozCon? You need a million API calls monthly from the SEOMoz Site Intelligence API? You want search volume that's not to just three significant figures from Google? You want to go back to school? There's an app(lication) for that! Simply put, these guys generally have the resources to get you what you need to do what you want to do.
- They Treat You Like An Adult – That's the way one of the Senior Analysts put it when I was interviewing for my first big agency job. You can work from home whenever you want, you have beer at your desk regularly and it's ok to curse when you're mad. Just be at work when you're needed and get the job done.
- The Pay – My salary doubled when I moved from full-time in-house to full-time big agency.
Cons of Full-featured Digital Agencies
- Multi-Agency Involvement – This never works simply because it's never in one agency's interest to help the other. For example when one agency has Paid Search and another has Organic, Paid can always dial up the results with more money and then throw Organic under the bus. Or if one agency is building the site and another is preparing SEO recommendations, the building agency could just never implemented the recommendations and then the SEO agency gets the blame.
- Multi-capability involvement – Your Creative department hates you. Your Tech team hates you. Your Account team hates you. The Strategy & Analytics team gets along with you and you may never once talk to your Paid Search team. Why so much hate? Well you undermine everything that it is natural for them to do.
- Your Creative team is thinking about the "golden mean," gridded layouts, widows, orphans and color schemes. If you are a true inbound marketer you're thinking about conversions, bounce rates and eye-tracking as well as SEO. So when you say "Let's A/B test the CTAs to see what messaging and sizing drives better conversions" Creative hears "let's open up the door to ruining the beautiful design that I just put into my portfolio."
Your Developers or Technical team think you're a hack. Rightfully so, in my opinion there are too many SEOs that cannot build a website. In that regard developers are movie producers and you are a film critic.
Your Account team generally has no idea what you do, they just know you are responsible for making the team miss launch dates. They barely knew how to sell SEO to begin with and really had no idea what they got themselves into. These people often refer to SEO work as "SEO Optimizations" and ask you "will this domain name affect the SEO quality score?" Uhh....What?
Strategy & Analytics thinks, "Yay! Here's someone that will actually put our data and insights into play." These guys will be your best friends in the agency world. They'll be interested in what you're doing they'll even come up with reasons for things that are happening that you wouldn't think of. I love the Strategy guys if only because they know enough math to turn that AOL CTR data into progressive forecast models.
Paid Search looks down their nose at you and says "Oh, you do SEO? That's cool. Good luck with all that link building. I'll be over here doing marketing with ROI that you can accurately forecast." As we all know an integrated search approach is the best way to go especially to test landing pages and to make those Paid Search dollars work the hardest. Even still Paid and Organic Search rarely pow wow.
- No Direct Implementation – If your agency does do implementation it's most likely the web development or technical team that handles it. These guys don't want to be bothered. They assume that you don't understand what it takes to develop a website and that your knowledge of code is limited to whatever it is your favorite SEO tool told you to is out of whack. A lot of them even randomly know just enough about SEO to be dangerous to your cause. That is to say in 2003 they read a blog post or attended a panel discussion so they say things like "you worry about making sure the content has 4-7% keyword density, I'll worry about the code." I've learned that if I make a joke about multi-dimensional arrays in our first conversation they are a lot more open to me telling them to make changes to their JavaScript to account for Page Speed issues.
- Corporate BS – There are very few big agencies that are not owned by WPP, Publicis Groupe, or some other holding company. This is great for your salary and benefits but people are laser-focused on bottom lines and corporate politics. Your super duper boss (your boss's boss's boss) will worry more about utilization and productivity numbers rather than the initiative you put forth by building something that helps you work faster. If you can't navigate the high school clique archetype that is our world, a big agency may not be for you.
- SEO is an Afterthought – Aside from the fact that the other capabilities are not in your corner SEO is not the biggest money maker in the house. Typically SEO is sold in the SOW as the site being built with SEO best practices or if SEO has its own clients you're still not bringing in the money that a $10M site redesign is. That said you will most likely see the site as its going out the door and you will have trouble getting your optimizations in to the build. It will be up to you and your team to fight with Creative to make SEO work because people in the building aren't all that concerned with it. Creative is perfectly fine with building pretty cars with no engines and letting Media push it up a hill. Creative won't come running until the client is asking why their car is sliding back down the hill once Media is gone.
Let me be up front, I think in-house SEO is absolutely boring, so boring that when I did it I automated most of it while I focused more on deciphering Aesop Rock lyrics. However I also believe it's the most effective way for a company to accomplish its SEO goals. By definition in-house SEOs are experts in their niche and succeed because the effort is so focused.
Site Management
I worked for a company that did basement waterproofing, basement finishing, crawl space and foundation repair. We developed products and also had a lot of dealerships internationally so we developed and optimized the dealership sites for lead generation.
Yo, if I ever see another sump pump as long as I live....
Anyway, so I put the work we were doing in the shooting fish in a barrel category simply because we dominated a niche and focused on geotargeted keywords with very low competition. As you've probably guessed we were awesome at it. I was hired as the resident whiz kid because I had previous agency experience and before I bored myself out of it I'd offered a bunch of changes to their approach. We had to build a ton of sites that basically looked the same with different logos and color schemes and the biggest hold up was generally that our two copywriters would have to "scuff" up existing content, updating it for the service area. Truthfully, the copy was as good as it was going to get so what I did to speed this process up was have them write four versions of each page with the same number of sentences in such a way that sentence one in version A made sense with sentence two in version B and so on. I also had them leave in markers for towns, cities, states and dealer names. Then basically I wrote a script that randomized the lines and positions where it would place the variables, then it checked how close it was to previously generated versions and it wouldn't spit out copy unless it was 90% original. Not quite your typical content spinner and to date I haven't heard of that content getting penalized or not ranking #1.
It's probably pretty obvious that I went after generating sites and generating dynamic service area landing pages next because I was bored. I guess that is part of why in-house SEO works so well, you have to keep experimenting to keep yourself from losing your mind working on the same thing.
I learned a lot here too and worked with a lot of talented people, but I also learned I needed to work at a digital agency where innovation is expected and not looked at as risky voodoo.
Pros of Site Management
- Full Control – This can be the same setup as the full featured digital agency where your company has a bunch of different capabilities that handle different parts of the site. However being that the company is so invested in SEO you are most likely touching the site directly yourself or at least working directly with a development team that is forced to follow your direction. When I was in-house we were the "Web Team" and while we had an Art Director, Flash guy, a couple copywriters, a link builder and a PPC guy the rest of us were Web Specialists which meant we were responsible for building and optimizing the sites. This is the best place to be in because you can do anything as needed. There's no writing about what needs to be done, presenting it, and then hoping a third party implements it. It's done right the first time because YOU did it.
- Knowledge of Niche – This is why every company that is focusing on SEO should bring it in-house. When you optimize for one industry you really begin to master it, know the key players and the best ways to get links and develop content. The goals of the brand have been embedded into your DNA and it is easier for you to apply them to your overall efforts. Your universe is small but you are the master of it.
Cons of Site Management
- Scared of Risk – Brands generally don't understand SEO but they do understand the New York Times. As we all know SEO has a bad reputation for backfiring on big brands so they don't want to do anything that Bruce Clay wouldn't like. That said if you are someone that follows the blogs and is really up on the newest techniques you may get a lot of push back from your boss about applying any tactics that are not vetted by Mr. Clay. Sidebar: I'm sorry Bruce, you're probably great at what you do but your work has been the cited by the people that have caused me many headaches in my career so you tend to end up in a lot of my SEO punch lines. No hard feelings man.
- Company is Not Knowledgeable – Oftentimes when someone has the brilliant idea to build an in-house SEO team they don't fully understand that SEO is typically a long-term initiative. They also don't communicate it to the guys upstairs and further don't understand that Landing Page and Conversion Optimization are large parts of that process. So what happens is the people upstairs cleared your hiring and then they expect you to work magic on their failed websites in very short time periods. Basically the expectations are often not managed and you don't really have any control over it. Then your boss starts leaning on you because his boss has turned up the heat. Expect to have to educate the people above you when you get there.
Agency Management
Redundancy is certainly the American way because a lot of companies are hiring in-house SEOs and then subsequently hiring third party agencies to develop their SEO strategy, content and link profiles. I guess the point is for the company to have someone on their side that speaks the language and can verify the work. Good grief! If these companies just want to waste some money make all checks payable to Michael King, I always wanted to buy a Knight Rider car but only sit in it inside of a Mack truck.
I don't have any experience with being an in-house SEO that manages an agency relationship. I'd love to hear about some experiences in the comments below.
I imagine it's similar to my dealings with third party agencies in other roles though so that's what I'm going to base this set of pros and cons on.
Pros of Agency Management
- It's Easy – You have agencies laying out your strategy, you're just QAing it and making sure that it fits your brand guidelines and overseeing the implementation on your side. So it's basically reading some documents, passing them along then double checking if the work was done. I don't even understand why companies hire an SEO for this anyone that can read can do this.
Cons of Agency Management
- Condescension from the Agency – You're the in-house SEO, you couldn't possibly be on the cutting edge of things like an agency -- or so they think. You think the agency is pompous, the agency thinks you're stupid and getting in the way of the implementation of their strategy. They will blame any failures on you and take full credit for any victories. I know because I've seen it and I do it.
Those of us who have done anything on a freelance basis know that it's the most bipolar of them all. In this case I don't mean contracting for an agency as an employee without benefits; I mean working as an independent consultant.
I've done freelance work since I was a teenager in both web and software development (in fact I think Jamie Stevens and I did a freelance site together back in 1995) but lately it's been mostly about SEO for companies, other agencies and individuals. I've been a touring musician for about eight years so this was the ideal situation for me to supplement my income while on the road and clients have come in all shapes and sizes. Some were very cool, easygoing and helpful while others were absolutely insane, unrealistic and unreasonable.
A lot of clients tend to see SEO as a quick fix and don't understand all the moving parts so client education is absolutely paramount when you do freelance work. Then there are the people that don't believe you can do what you say and will often stand in the way of their own success. Sometimes clients come to you because they didn't like how the results of working with a boutique agency went and they think working with an individual is a better idea.
What I love most now about freelance is that is keeps me sharp. This is often the opportunity where I get to implement optimizations myself and test out the new ideas I'm having or that I'm hearing about on the SEO blogosphere.
Writing about SEO is mostly conjecture; my freelance work is what keeps my SEO skill set relevant.
Pros of Freelance SEO
- Freedom – You choose your clientele and make your own schedule. In an agency it's not your call whether to dump a problem client; at best you can get transferred to another account. When you do freelance you can avoid or fire problem clients.Obviously you and your client must agree on dates for deliverables but if all you do is freelance work then you get to wake up at 3pm and optimize whenever you feel like it. I've optimized whole sites on flights to Europe, got off the plane uploaded and then performed a concert. File under: awesome.
- Autonomy – You call the shots! Sure you have to work within the brand guidelines and client goals but aside from that there's no one dictating your strategy. When you have a great idea for link building or want to build a tool to take advantage of something that applies to the client's niche there is no boss telling you not to.
Cons of Freelance SEO
- Everyone wants a package deal – Before we even talk goals or keywords most potential freelance clients first just ask me how much would SEO cost for their site. The conversation usually ends at "it depends" but the fact of the matter is that it does depend on a variety of factors. While I know some industry leaders like Danny Dover (in "Search Engine Optimization Secrets") have suggested that SEO prices should be standardized based on the task with a multiplier applied based on experience, I strongly disagree. I price my work based on an hourly rate multiplied by the amount of hours I've scoped for the tasks or project. Even still people would much rather hear what my silver, gold, and platinum packages are. Man this ain't the car wash or McDonald's I can't get you the works for $15 or an Extra Value Optimization.
- Lack of Client Education – Typically freelance clientele is small businesses referred to you by a friend or even big business that doesn't want deal with the headaches of an agency. These people have heard the term SEO thrown around and their knowledge often stops at Meta tags. The biggest part of any freelance job in my experience is client education, I spend more time writing emails and making calls about what I'm doing and why than actually doing it. That's not to say that SEO education is not a big problem within agencies and amongst their clients as well, but you personally won't spend as much time educating clients in those roles.
- Ebb and Flow of Work – Peaks and valleys. Feast or famine. No matter how well you network it tends that you will have a time where you have too much on your plate followed by a time when you wonder when you're next job is coming in. Being that most of my freelance clients are small businesses, I've found it difficult on a freelance basis to get clients to sign on for continued optimizations. They typically want some sort of "one and done" situation or just a small amount of monthly link building. The best situation to get around this ebb and flow is to partner with a boutique web design shop that doesn't have SEO on staff and help them out.
I'm having too much fun with the Mr. Men meets Dilbert cartoons so I figured it might be a fun guessing game for me to post more memories and have people guess in the comments where they happened. I'll give you guys the answers after we get enough comments.
Obviously this comes from a bias lens and I've been around the block enough times to know I am the big agency type but I hope people find this insightful so they don't go into any of these scenarios blindly. Also keep in mind these are insights from my experience so you may go into any of these scenarios and never run into these problems. Just like anything in life, every opportunity is what you make of it.
I want to hear from you guys. Those of you with multiple experiences I'd like to know what scenario you think the best. Have I left out any glaring pros or cons? I especially want to hear from people who have worked in-house managing an agency relationship.
Thank you to all the people that I have worked with who can laugh at this post because they know they were awesome and they were nothing like the archetypes I have just described. Hope you guys have enjoyed my first post!
A couple months ago I started at an agency here in Arizona. Up until then I'd been doing freelance web design/development and SEO and was successful at it.
When it comes to SEO now, it's been a bit of a headache. The bigger clients, which I expected, are much more difficult to deal with in terms of SEO. I'm constanlty looking for opportunities for creating new content and how to spread that content around the web (social media, link building, etc). But, unlike my freelance days where the smaller clients gave me free range to do what I needed to do, the big clients keep me so restricted that all that ends up happening is missed opportunities.
Plus, the bigger clients that come with the agency tend, at least in my experience thus far, to have people that simply don't want to listen to what I'm trying to tell them. They're expectations are ridiculously high, and their rationale for how SEO should be impacting their business on a weekly basis is ludicrous.Â
Chris,
I whole heartedly agree with this! Bigger clients are all about brand guidelines or they just don't understand the benefit of creating content tangential to their ad copy.Â
For other people that are having this problem...
In this case client education is sooo important. You have to bring them case studies and analytics and get small wins until you can "iterate to great" as the cliché goes.Â
It's hard to get people to listen because they just don't understand the point. I'm sure you know but always be armed with data.
Thanks for your comment Chris!
Funny, witty and with awesome Mr Men cartoons. Love it!
A Vote to Promote!
Michael: A quick question for you then; if you were to start over as a complete SEO n00b where you start? Big Agency? Freelance...?
Hey Ed,
Wow, I'm jealous that you are already doing SEO at such a young age.Â
If I had it all to do over I'd start exactly where I did -- at a boutique agency. Simply because the hands-on approach is what made me as good as I am today. It's the same way I started in programming and web design with the bare essentials (I coded websites in Notepad until 2006). Working at a big agency is great but if I started here I would only truly understand SEO from an academic standpoint.
Thanks for reading man!
I liked the way you have presented the real scenario that being in SEO i know it's true. But one thing that i would like to ask you that how a technical knowledge can help in SEO.
Say i have a knowledge of php and html. Regarding their implementation, i do it for my own website. By as i arrives at my workplace, the same set of routine surrounds me. I bearly even find any way out where an SEO analyst needs a coding beside few general HTML codes as for others we have MR. Lazy.
So do you think that knowledge of coding can make one's SEO career grow well or if he get a chance then it is better to shift from SEO to ba someone like Mr. Lazy. Â
Nothing wrong with using Notepad ;)
 I think there's something extra you get from working in a team learning SEO too. Help is just over there, and happy to help - you're not trawling the net on your ownsome, or interrupting a huge agencies day-to-day schedule.
 Need more cartoons on SEOmoz me thinks!Â
SEO is an art, its noting to do with the brand company and all, its the individuals knowledge and the understanding of the SEO, one who can understand and sence the problem and tweak them accordingly.
"Funny because it's true" has never applied more to a blog post than this.Â
Absolutely hilarious!Â
You are now require to do these weekly :)
LOL Richard,
Yeah I was thinking I should start a blog of these comic strips. I could be the SEO Cartoonist haha.
I like it. I like it a lot. :P
Damn Ive been in every one of those scenarios #fml. Long but spot on (thats what she said)
If thats a pretty good approximation of the truth, how the hell do you escape that? I think of guys like SEOmoz and Distilled who have managed by a combo of smarts and hard work to escape the mire.
Whats your path to freedom?
Hey Stephen,
First off thanks for reading man. I've read a few of your posts and they were pretty awesome so I appreciate you checking out what I had to say (although it was long!).Â
I'm actually going to follow this post up with solutions to these pitfalls but in general it's about 2 things:
I'll expand on this in my next post sometime very soon!
Those two pieces of advice would make for a good blog post, themselves...
'50 new clients expect page 1 rankings next week!' is something i hear way too often!...650 clients later and I'm losing hair at a fast rate.
What a great post. Some very apt points!
I'm glad you conceded that it reads relatively agency-biased, because it did, but that didn't detract from its charm and insightfulness!
Glad you enjoyed it Martin!
Great post Mike! Â My company has been in constant growth over the past few years... and I've certainly been through many of the trials you outlined here.
My particular favorite, of course, is the "performance at the speed of light" for $5 option... LOL :) Â So true!!
-John
Thanks for reading John. As a founder of an agency I'm very curious to hear your perspective on things actually. You're a BAWSE so you may not see some of my issues the same way. What are the pros and cons of running your own shop?
How funny! As I was reading each character description, I could actually see my co-workers and bosses. I like it!
They all have great pros and cons, which I have experienced first hand. So my goal is to work my in house job, from an island in the bahamas. That would be perfect.
Thanks for the fun!
OMG, I laughed so hard. It's spot in in some cases! If you've been in IM/SEO for long enough you will definitely have experienced exactly these characters. And...if you ever worked at Bruce Clay, Inc. (I'm not sayin' - oh, yes, I am!) well... that was a good one too! Definitely worth the promotion from Youmoz for Michael King on this one!
Great post; so good I created an account to comment. :)
I'm an in-house guy, been so for years and have no plans on doing anything different. In the past I've managed up to 5 agencies (all boutique) at a time, and am currently managing one. The piece I see missing from this post (and the one I'd love to see in the future) are the character traits that best fit each SEO model. What common personailty traits do successful in-house folks have? How about agency? Where do the differences lie?
One of the comments pointed out the difficulty of working with creative/design/UX from an in-house SEO perspective, and having to convince others about the value. That's one of the parts of the job that I love the most! Finding a non-believer, and eventually (through time, relationship-building, analytics, etc.) converting them makes them your shining SEO star. For some, this might be terrible but for me (and I imagine, others like me) it's a welcome challenge.
Looking forward to the SEO personality post and honestly, high-quality stuff.
Wow Dan! Thanks for signing up to offer your insight. I definitely appreciate that.
I absolutely agree with you about what was missing. I agree so much that I'm working on the follow up that has all the answers but what I want to do is reach out to the community to get a ton of responses and data on everyone's experiences with the different issues and make it as exhaustive and comprehensive.
Look out for that soon.
Glad you enjoyed the post!
My favorite line: "Freelance: You're the Plumber in a Client's Pipe Dream."
I have many solopreneur friends who've attended "SEO Expert" seminars, and sadly there are a lot of plumbers who are laying that pipe dream down... What was that saying about "it always rolls downhill"?
LOL Can you tell I'm a lyricist? ;)
Thanks for reading Brian!
I love the "Tech thinks you're a hack" cartoon!
BTW, in my experience, just building a website doesn't really prepare you for working with developers. Most existing websites have HUGE sums of conditional logic, quirky rules and other reasons for the way they are which can make your simple proposals turn into monsters.
RE: Agency Management. As an in-house, I can see the utility of this approach. I prefer groups to individuals, because the sum of knowledge is always greater than one person. It prevents tunnel vision and working in a vacuum. Also, trivial things like link-building can be given to the agency. And, if one were to rely on agencies alone without anyone in-house, lots of bad advice gets passed around. I still speak with SEO vendors that talk in terms of keyword density.
Hey Jeremy,
First of all thanks for reading.
Secondly, I agree with you there but when I say learn to build a website in 2011 it means that you need to have a strong grasp on a lot of things not just HTML. At very least you need to understand HTML, CSS, JS, and .NET or PHP. That said, if you have that foundation you should at least be able to understand what is going on and when techs pushbacks are legit.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you have to say about in-house agency management but I also feel like this can be solved by having a GOOD agency that interfaces directly with your tech team.
Great comments man!
Good to see that some things are the same all over the world ;-)
I'm based in the Netherlands and have a small agency. I recognise the things said about inhouse vs agency and also see in the comments that small and big clients are the same in the whole world.
Regards,
Hans
https://www.online-marketing-alkmaar.nl
PS Â OMA = Grantma in Dutch so that explains the logo I guess
Beautiful insights of SEO world, Michael!
I think you did a great decision with the Mr. Men to illustrate this bunch of real world facts: no fiction at all, that's on screen all over this page's comments.
My last expectation from your post is that it may help a number of decision takers to understand how SEO works better and drive their ships and people into this mindset.
A few things I found viral apart of the post relevance itself:
Thanks for the time you dedicated to writting this, I had a nice time reading through.
A late thumbs up for Oli Gardner as well!
Nah, I'm more Infinity Gauntlet than Secret Wars but either way I was big comic book head when I was growing up.
Glad you enjoyed it and stay tuned for the next one!
Really interesting post. I've done the in-house and SEO chop shop roles and the latter was really really miserable - spending more time trying to soothe angry clients and explain why the owners were dodging their calls than I was doing SEO. The agency I work for now really doesn't fit into any of your categories above. We have a full digital offering - we do design, development and have an online marketing team with specialists in PPC, SEO and Social Media. We're not a massive company (around 30 of us) and our business development team is the smallest department in the company - but they bring in enough good quality work to keep the company growing constantly, everybody very busy and nobody fretting about their jobs.
Our whole offering is built around the fact that we have a full capability and that we work together between the departments so the designers know when to ask an SEO about whether something is search friendly, the developers understand how sites need to be built and they ask us if they're unsure about something - and on our part in means if we think there's a technical issue on a site we haven't built, we can call in a developer to assess it and find a way to fix it. We can also lean on our designers to help with the conversion optimisation and the usability on sites.
Our clients are not massive enough that we have Google turning up on our doorstep, but we do have some nice enterprise level clients.
We've actually got the best of both worlds - agency capabilties but without the internal issues; and the small SEO firm atmosphere without the downside off too many clients, not enough resources. Frankly, having worked in a small digital agency environment I can't say I'd want to go big and I certainly wouldn't go back in-house!
The place you work sounds like a unicorn sipping from the fountain of youth standing next to a pot of gold.
Thanks for reading!
Mike,Â
First off, great post. Â Having just gotten into the big agency world in the last year (and encourting the majority of those characters), it's nice to know that I (we) aren't alone in our trials and tribulations. With that being said, the opportunity to work with big brands is pretty awesome and I have learned a lot from the people around me. Like you, I was cruising around the mall with my wife saying "Yea, I do their SEO, no big deal." Â
The in-house gig, for me, wasn't as boring because that's where I cut my teeth. Â I was out there, more or less on my own, trying to absorb as much as I could. Â It was also a start up, Â and the pressure was on 24-7.Â
Either way, fantastic post. Â And congrats on the main page promotion!
First I was kind of discouraged because of the length of the post - but the theme itself and the great cartoons kept me go on reading! I had some laughs and can reproduce some scenes you described!
Great post!
Thanks for sticking it out and getting through it with me :)
Fantastic post!
Re: working at a large digital agency, did you find you were as "hands on" as you would have liked to have been, in terms of the SEO work you were doing for clients?
Good question Kieron,
In my big agency experience I have never been so hands-on where I am digging through code myself. How it works is we do the analysis, write up the recommendations and then send them over to the client or their implementing agency or to Tech & Creative if the build is handled in house. They do it or don't do it then we QA to make sure it was done or not done and then we tell them to fix things if they didn't do them right. There can be a legal review in there (definitely if it's pharma) and the client has to like the changes as well. After all of that is done you have to see how it does and then you rinse and repeat. This process is very long and drawn so you see how I miss just getting in and coding things myself.
In my first big agency job I wasn't hands-on as far as dictating strategy, I made suggestions and such but it wasn't my call. Now I call the shots for SEO except for when my boss (a really smart guy actually) vetoes me. He doesn't really shut my ideas down as much as he just makes me present them in phases so they are more digestible for all the different teams involved.
Thanks for reading man!
Pretty good and realistic. I ve been a freelancer and right now I am an in-house SEO. It kind of suck to sit all day in the firm, but on the positive side I am doing a lot of reading durng my free time and learning stuff. Thanks for the awesomeness :)
Very well written and thought out. I freelance now but experienced many of the same situations. Thanks
Full of awesoness post! I've been in the small dedicated agency side, the client side and the freelance side and I can related to a lot of that experiences.
Worth the read :-)
Thanks for sharing your real life experiences in the SEO industry throughout your career. i too started in an SEO chop shop, and tried to turn the company around. "Graduated" to a better firm, dabbled with freelance work and now am Director of SEO and PPC Operations at a web development firm!
These cartoons are just perfect. Great job!
I've only worked in one setting but it was interesting to learn about the others and their pros and cons. I really like where I am right now because I have so much freedom and can control implementation on sites. It would probably drive me crazy to create recommendations and then never see them implemented or implemented wrong.
Awesome post...very insightful!
The people who refer to SEO work as "SEO Optimizations" are the same people who call them "ATM Machines" :-)
I concur!
Great post Mike.
Was p!ssing myself at your cartoons, I'd love to see more of these with future posts!
Humorous, but also highlighting some of the home truths when carrying out SEO for clients or through an ageny.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I'll use the cartoons anytime it makes sense but I'm also toying with the idea of doing a daily blog of them because enough stuff happens at work to give me enough material.
This was excellent. Next time around can you do a podcast about SEO that showcases your rap skills, but applied to SEO? Like an SEO rap-rant of sorts. And I want to hear something that's hard, on the level of "hit em up"
There's already an "SEO Rapper" guy out there. I have considered doing a diss record/video and my friend Vanderslice already made a beat for it. I'm not sure if the SEO community is ready for that though ;)
Thanks for reading!
Hey Michael,
Really great post! This was an very enjoyable read. It information provided is very insightful.
I am currently working in-house managing an agency relationship. This is my first SEO experience, so I have nothing to compare it to. You were right on it being easy, but there is a lot more than reading documents and passing it along. I can relate to most of the insight you gave on in-house site management. I am the only in-house SEO specialist in my company, but we have three external agencies (oh boy): one for on-page recommendations/back-linking strategy, one for AdWords PPC campaign strategy, and one for social media + inbound marketing strategy.
I feel like I'm more of a consultant making sure all the agencies are on the right track and really doing what they say they are, but at the same time, I'm doing a lot of the same thing the agencies are already doing (and in most cases, we're on the same page, which is good). This might be because (like what you said about site management), it is boring. I spend a lot of time keeping myself busy by reading up on SEO and trying out different methods to see if something works better than another. I have a lot of control and while I sometimes need to write about what needs to be done, I can usually do it MYSELF right away.
It is enjoyable to be able to do the SEO implementations myself, but is bad when my company expects me to do a lot more with web developing once they see how much I know about that area (we also have an agency for web development and it is difficult to work with them). In terms of reading documents and passing them along, it is kind of funny, because at times (more often that I you would think), I would see ridiculous recommendations that are outdated or just outright-wrong, and I would have to correct the agency. Had my company not hired me, they would never catch the errors and implement something that is potential detrimental. Because I am still so involved while managing agency relations, I know a lot about the niche my company is in.
This is just my experience working in-house managing agency relationships. My company hires external agencies, but come to me first and weigh my decisions and thoughts more heavily.
That being said, it seems like I would enjoy it best at a digital agency. At times, I wish I have someone to talk about what I’m doing when I’m doing it. Ideally, I want to have some experience in each of the categories that you provided helpful insight on. It would be a really big learning experience. But I definitely want to end up working at a digital agency, surrounded with rockstars and the wanted resources.
I absolutely enjoyed reading your article!
Love this post! It makes me feel so validated in the neverending client unrealistic expectations.
Thanks for sharing your SEO origins. Not everybody is so honest and straightforward about how they got their start. I've always been a freelance SEO and would like to keep it that way, but I definitely see the value of working within an agency to learn from Jedi masters. I also laughed out loud when you mentioned the autodialer that scraped whois records, haha! Hilarous stuff.
This is greatly insightful!
thx and keep it coming!
Genius.
This was a great read. I see you put a lot of effort into it. I do work as an in-house SEO and agree it can get very boring but at the same time I allocate all my time to this 1 client which allows me to really research (and learn) the industry, it's keywords, competition and other aspects. It is like a have a personal relationship with my keywords and can detect the slightest change. By focusing so much time, I can catch patterns and tendencies fast.
It is not like I have to open a spreadsheet and remember where was I a week ago.
Sometimes this relationship can get quite freaky. I actually have nighmares of keyword A (which brings 30% of organic traffic) abandoning me and I am left in the gutter crying ;-)
I also do relate with lazy programmers and stuburn designers who reply to emails with techno mumbo jumbo BS instead of actually implementing changes.
The sad part of this is that they actually take more time trying to justify WHY NOT DO SOMETING then it would take to actually do it.
I am waiting for them to paste in the new analytics site speed function for over a month!!
Or how about a home page tile with 9 slides, totalling almost half a meg! That's another battle and I had to cut the "ticket system" red tape and send an email straight to the CEO titled "The O in SEO" where I reminded him that the "O" in SEO stands for optimization which means that I must aim for our websites to be the best as possible and not settle for average or good enough... Average won't impress investors or put us ahead of competition.
Anyways, it was a great read and I loved the graphics. Thank you
You, my good man, need a vacation.
Like I said, I believe in-house is the best way for a brand to go if only for the attention to detail. However at the same time working at an agency I get to see patterns for how multiple sites are affected by things like Panda and I can apply learnings.
I guess I just made the case for having in-house and an agency. Ha!
Great comment man, thanks for reading!
Thanks. I do need a vacation ;-) I guess I did not mention we also have an affiliate network, not really an SEO agency per say but we still get to see multiple cases and are able to compare tests and results.
BTW - I would love to see more strips, specially envolving the lazy techs or create a new character "The Vacationing SEO" . LOL
Once again Thank you, I did enjoy your post very much
Really good post! The characters and their descriptions at the beginning of the post really set my mood. The topic you wrote about is not only interesting (I am always keen to hear/read about other people's experience) but also entertaining.
I work at a small digital agency at the moment and what frustrates me sometimes is the fact that I always end up having a feeling of "how much more I could do if there were more hours in a day". Having a number of clients in a number of different niches I always think "oh, I wish I could dig into this project deeper" but there is only so much you can do in a day/week/month. I have never worked in-house but in my eyes doing SEO in-house would be the cure of this frustration...or at least that`s how I feel.
You said that you found in-house SEO to be boring. Is that because of the niche you were working in was not your interest? I guess basement waterproofing is not an exciting service to market. Do you think your perception of in-house SEO would have been different if you had previously worked in a niche that you actually have an interest in?
One more point I would like to make is something that you basically touched a little bit in your post saying that "The goals of the brand have been embedded into your DNA". I think one of the main things that differentiates in-house SEO and agency SEO is the following: Let`s think about what is the goal of an agency? An agency's main goals are to gain more and more clients, sell more services to each of these clients and convince them to increase their SEO budget in order for the agency to sustain its growth. In contrast to that, a brand`s aim is different. It could be to increase its role in relations to social responsibility or to promote a profitable and sustainable business activity that meets the customers needs. In both cases the goals are embedded into your DNA so if you work at agency side your goals are the same as the agency's and the same is true when working for a company so personally if I was a brand owner I would be skeptical about the quality of the service when using agency versus in-house. I would like to try what it is like doing SEO in-house and finally concentrate 100% on one account. After that I will probably be more equipped to decide which one I would prefer.
Thanks again for sharing your experience ;) really enjoyed reading it!
That's exactly it because I obviously love doing SEO otherwise I wouldn't have written a 15-page blog post LOL. The subject matter was quite mundane and that has painted my idea of what in-house SEO is. Now let's say I worked on something cool like SEO for Nintendo then I'd probably say "OMG IN-HOUSE SEO IS THE BEST EVER." I personally need a fast-paced environment with consistent challenge.
As far as the agency goals.... Yes, that is the goal of the agency but as an SEO that is not necesarilly my goal. Sure I do business development and that allows me to not only keep my job and ultimately hire more people but these things all serve the purpose of allowing me to deliver. Deliver on my role of creating business and then deliver on my goal of getting results. So basically I'm saying the feedback loop that you are describing does not take into account that there are actual people involved that like do to their job well.
Great comment, thanks for reading!
Awesome post.
Where did you find out so much about my life? ; )
i've had quite the same experience as you did with maybe one different thing: when you're in-house, you might have nearly complete control over the website and be able to get things done quickly. This is mostly the case in small companies or pure online players.
But if you're in-house in a big company, where SEO is a must have but won't change anything to the stock price, things might be slower and more complicated than you could ever imagine. You will face the exact same people you got in big agencies (dev, creative...) + the in-house brand people (marketing, communication) and some others that you didn't even know could have an impact on your SEO needs (security, legal, finance...).
Add to that the fact that once you've been in-house for a while (let's say 6 months), you're no longer seen as "the guy from the agency world" by your colleagues, boss, etc but just someone who's in-house and can't be as good as someone currently working in an agency (there comes the agency management).
Some asked in the comment where to start SEO.It's definitely in agencies (whatever the size) that you'll be able to learn SEO because you'll have the opportunity to talk to other SEOs and share problems and solutions.
To work in-house and succeed, you need to have some strong all-round SEO skills and some great communication skills because you'll need to convince some people to change the way they are used to work. And that can be quite a challenge.
Couldn't agree more that to work in-house, SEO skills should be up to snuff and be able to push, communicate well.
Start at agency with other SEOs, soak up as much knowledge & don't be afraid to push/question what you're learning or read. You and your colleagues will be better for it.
Super post Michael!
It really puts into context my own experiences. I've gone from in-house to boutique to full digital agency (currently) and though I "knew" SEO before the full agency, I truly didn't have the opportunity to flex my knowledge & skills until recently.
Like you (without exaggerating), what I've learned in the past several months out-way my first few years of SEO experience.
Time to share - sharing is fun...
With no prior experience, my SEO endeavor started when a past colleague (SEO "expert") needed an in-house junior SEO with promises to teach & learn a unique search discipline. I was hired because of my affiliate marketing experience, plus, I knew my way around a browser & the World Wide Web - WOOT!
Looking back now, our SEO initiatives were minimal at best without any real value. Ya, we did meta rewrites & optimized anchor text but my boss' SEO decree was get links; therefore, 90% of my time consisted of, like you, spending hours querying [keyword], contacting site from said query and getting a contextual link. Whenever I did try to ask my boss about trying/learning new techniques I was always told that upper management kept us on a tight lease & their directives were ours. I was new & green so I thought that was the nature of the business.
After 1 year in-house, my boss approached me to join their new boutique SEO shop with promises of flexibility, no constraints and really dive into SEO. Well, damn! Here's a real chance for me to dive into SEO properly. Not only will we have clients but we will also create our own portals to generate extra revenue and practice what we preach. So I jumped at the chance - and fell.
To keep it brief, the in-house inability/knowledge wasn't upper management. My boss' new micromanagement skill was probably their fear of showing what little, real SEO value they possessed to teach. Not to say they didn't know SEO but pigeonholed us to the same tactics as before.
With this new realization, I started to really teach myself & other boutique colleagues SEO's potential but I knew I had to be in a better environment, not only to improve but for my sanity. So I took my skills to the market and found a great place to share, learn & grow.
The End...
I'm generally not one to post/comment let alone rant (maybe there’s a takeaway here for someone), but your post rang true to my ears and hell, anyone that references Mr. Men AND in context spectacularly deserves kudos.
Again, great job!
Awesome post! It was a very lengthy read, with lots of information, but the humor allowed to stay engaged. I definitely will be looking for your posts in the future.
This might actually be the best thing I've read on here in a while - I think we've all met Mr Impossible!
Thanks for the post - it must have taken you ages to write!
See ya - I'm just off to speak to Mr Lazy.
iPullRank.. prize for the longest post ever! :)
I absolutely love this sentence, "viral campaigns so successful your friends send them to you rather than you having to beg them to"!
Cheers to a great post mate.
Psst, you've obvioulsy not seen the Noob Guide to Online Marketing. ;) (regarding the longest post ever)
I wouldn't even be mad right now if Kanye popped up right now and told me he was happy for me but Oli had the greatest post of all time.
Aww thanks guys :)
I love the style of your post - really entertaining, nice work.
It's funny, I've also done a post using Mr. Men which people might like:Â
https://unbounce.com/funny/mr-men-guide-to-landing-pages-and-conversion/
...and just like that Oli has killed me again *bows*
Oh yes, thanks Jennita, I remember that post by Oli, Guiness Book of Records material right there!
I actually left a comment on his post, "Wow, that was one serious article, I feel like I've just finished a book! Nice one Oli :)"
Haha
Excellent post, Mike. Keep it up.
I experienced the content generator in your in-house scenario first hand. I appreciated it as a productivity tool and also its efficiency on the SEO side... but... it made the writer part of me cringe. I think for certain companies, companies that are looking to fulfill an immeadiate need (My basement is leaking, I need someone now!), content (as a tool of persuation) is not king, SEO is king.
Where I'm going... I'd be curious to hear about your current relationship, or general thoughts on, SEO and content/long-term branding/company identity. What responsibility if any does SEO have to company brand?.. how do you (in practical terms) create sites that exhibit good SEO and have compelling content, or content that must fit mandated standards that are beyond your control?
I'm curious about your struggles/experiences in this area.
Perhaps you could add this to your list of next blog posts. You take requests?    Â
What up what up J-Z!
I can certainly respect that the writer side of you may not have liked the content generator but it fulfilled the purpose much more efficiently. I wouldn't suggest something like that as a strategy that should be replicated but in that case it was perfect because it freed up our copywriters to write copy for those dynamic city/town landing pages another -- the part where our optimizations at that point had be historically weaker. It was a function over form situation.
Your question is a great one. For steering a brand SEO kinda works the same way as Seth Godin's purple cow concept.
That is to say SEO should be built in from the ground up and help drive the brand to a certain degree. I'm not saying you MUST take all your direction from keyword research as a brand but think about it keyword research is basically crowdsourcing what it is people want. We are typically retrofitting SEO to the site but what if you gave the product a name based on keyword research? What if bands picked their names based on keyword research? What if Nike discovered via keyword research that a million people are searching for a certain colorway of Dunks that doesn't exist? Boom. Now you have a product that you can create that already has a built-in demand and there is the intersection of SEO and Branding.
So it's not really what responsibility does the SEO have to the brand, it's what responsibility does the brand have to SEO? There are many opportunities to think of it from the inside out rather than retrofitting it.
As far as my struggles, they are pretty typical. For example Fashion brands don't want a ton of copy, they want big pictures and Flash because that fits the brand identity. So basically you have to make compromises and find an intersection between brand guidelines and SEO best practices. That said for example our big fashion client was real particular about how they wanted us to do link building so in that case I suggested they build some sort of tool that allows you to build an outfit out of their clothes to attract links from tech and fashion blogs and allow people to share their outfit on their sites and social media similar to Nike ID. Not sure that ever made it to the client but the point is that restraints just make it so you have to come up with a creative solution. Challenges like that are what make SEO fun anyway.
And hell yes I take requests!
SEO research as predictor of brand vialbility before product launch. I like that. Seems obvious now that you've said it. Thanks for the response.
@ipullrank
So much truth. Search shouldn't be an afterthought, & neither should social; these two factors drive the bulk of new content discovery for a large part of the world... and this will just keep growing.Established brands should definitely be looking for missed opportunities in the "navigational" key term space, while leveraging Search level branding techniques such as branded Key Term bidding/content creation and Instant/Suggest optimization. Suggest also represents a great opportunities to leverage Search a a way to gain insight into the wisdom of the crowd... to see if you need to be making a new line of Dunks for example ;-).Brands looking to establish themselves should look at relationship building opportunities presented by the "informational" key term space, positioning themselves as an authoritative and trustworthy source of information.
@John
Content is definitely king; but there's only so many ways to skin a cat.When you've drilled it down to the hyper-local, long tail lander like the content-generator in question was designed for, you can still write powerful, effective copy in a dynamic way. It depends on how clever your copy-team is and how stiff the competition is for your particular niche.From what I've heard, the team in question was top notch and the strategy is still working for them.
man, I would give you 10 thumbs up for this post if I could, agreed, agreed, agreed. and agreed. I have worked as a freelancer, in a boutique agency and now a focused SEO agency, and my experience pretty much matches what you described here, only I could never come up with a post like this that will make me laugh and cry at the same time (crying being the part where I know exactly what you are talking about and I feel with your pain) . And yeah, don't you just love the clients when you are a freelance SEO and they ask you how much are your packages? ohhh, that kills me every time...
Thanks Zarko, it's good to know there are other people out there that feel my pain and that I'm not just crazy haha
Great work...............very good article..
Mike,
I enjoyed your post, especially since I've experienced three of these scenarios and I must admit that generally I think that you're spot on. Regardless, I learned a great deal in each situation and it has only helped me improve my skills. However, it would have been really helpful to read your post before those experiences; it would have saved at least some of my sanity.
Hey Bill,
Thanks for reading man...I know you're as busy as me so these long posts can be an investment hahaha.
Truthfully, it's better that I experienced all of these things because they taught me what not to do and helped me develop a skillset and a mindset that allows me to be creative with my tactics. Sanity is overrated anyway ;)
I thought I would comment on the section where you wanted to hear about people who have gone the in house route, and worked/managed an outsourced agency. I've been there dude! All the pro's and con's you mentioned were spot on, and then some :)
My project was to oversee the SEO Strategy for an agency from within a corporate travel company. As I had been working in the field (both in house for a private company and a private consultant for about 7 years at this time (this was about 4 years ago now) I came in to oversee the strategy put together by another agency.
I found only that what they had done or been doing for 3 months, was mostly all wrong, cut corners on simple implemtation and methods and missed so much I I had to get a grip and get the president's ear on this, and fast and can these guys or this ship was sinking and there was no coming up for air.
Thankfully, he was open to listen. I managed to get the agency out of the loop and let go (for what they were charging, I could have hired 2 other people/month) and get it all together with a whole new technica strategy. I took over the project as a private consultant and re-established the work, projects, timelines, etc.. got everything up so well, the division of the company with AMEX was sold to a private company after growing more than 35% in year total gross sales - all due to increases in natural traffic, and overall conversions, rankings, with MAJOR decreases in PPC spending by over 70% monthly. It was a full 13 months, but it was great kicking the other agency out the door!
They had no clue what was going on and the president just didn't know enough to make the call.
The president of that company was so impressed with the work I had done taking over so he could sell the company and retire, that had called me back just last week to look at consulting with some more start up's he was investing in.Â
I guess it all worked out in the end :)
Wow Rob! You really turned that around for them. That's an incredible story althought it does kinda prove my point... why do you need an agency and a good SEO in-house? Your good in-house guy can accomplish the same thing as the agency or one will very likely contradict the other and at the very least generate a lot of back and forth that slows down the project.
That's awesome man, I'm really impressed with the outcome of you taking over the Search business.
Thanks for joining the conversation man!
Thanks. I think it was more about structure and having a plan. They had the right ideas, but had no idea how to implement them on such a large scale. It really was a waste of money for the company to high the agency, and the "in-house" guy (me) was able to do the work needed, at a 3rd the cost in billing to help them get back on track. It also goes to point out the 'in-house' guy gets the lower end of the stick when it comes to "give me the world for 5$", but it aid off in the end, and I made some good connections with some very powerful people for return business and referrals on a consulting level. I was glad I could help out (this was also right during the US economic crunch of 08-09).. when TRavel was getting hit hard. They needed to really get their search volume up, PPC down (less money to Big G!) and start seeing some conversion and tracking. I was happy the president brought me on to consult (from another referral) and get them all straightened out!! Loved your article my friend!! LOL It was just perfect !
This is an amazing post!
I got lucky and moved to an SEO SaaS company after pondering in-house / agency side for a long time. They are polar opposites and would really struggle to say which I preferred.
VERY generally speaking I find agency SEO's usually have much sharper skills, get exposure to a much wider range of data / scenarios / troubleshooting and the experience can be extremely valuable.
Working in-house you can almost feel like a black sheep and like you're working against people.
The golden rule is you better be damn sure you like the organisation / people a lot to work in-house!
Thanks for reading Steve. Ahhhhh an SaaS company...that's one that I haven't done that I would love to do.
I'd actually say your golden rule applies to any job in any industry. If the culture doesn't fit you and your goals you should go somewhere else.
Most of our seo family members first studies some tips and basics individually and start their seo career with seo agency, will be absorbed as in house, later he will become a freelancer when he becomes self sufficient.
Get'em Mike! Great post!
I'm currently an in-house working with a third party agency (one mentioned in your post, in fact, and they're living up to their good reputation in my eyes), and previously worked for a niche-focused boutique agency. I'm not just a middleman here - I'm actively researching, link building and saying "Hey, what if we do X?" The agency knows that if they need something done, I can make it happen quickly. Likewise, if I need feedback on an idea, they can provide it. Most of the time, we're both on the same page so far as SEO philosophy goes.Â
While I miss having folks just over the cubicle wall to bounce ideas off of and brainstorm with and share articles with and debate tactics and whatnot, I appreciate that the agency can fill that role for me, albeit at a distance.Â
Also, when I want something done, and the agency agrees that it should be done, we can team up to present it to management with twice the authority, effectively ganging up on them to get it done. :-D
Thanks for the insight Rebecca!
Like I said I don't have any experience with this so I'm glad that you have showed us your perspective!
The strength in numbers aspect of it is awesome and I didn't think about that all because I'm used to client contacts being so disagreeable.
Great comment. Thank you so much!
Lovely post, and the cartoons are perfect and made me laugh a lot :).
But... let's start the discussion ;)
I'm a freelance SEO and at first I agree with the pros and cons you list: but they are almost to be referred to people who starts their career as freelance SEO or digital assets optimizator (SEO + Inbound marketing). And it is quite obvious, as to work as a freelance implies also a big amount of things that as in house or working in agency you don't have to think about: you are the agency.
Therefore, or you are an hiper organized kind of man/woman or inevitably you are going to suffer all the things you says... until you learn what's you way.Â
Freelancers tend to specialize. Take as example Alan Bleiweiss: he is a specialized kind of SEO (in forensic). Other specializes as link builders, others in local search. Just very few will become somehow a different kind of Web Marketing Consultant, become somehow a sort of conselours who are contracted usually by big companies to overlook the job of their in house web marketing (or just SEO) dpt.Â
Again, Alan could be taken as an example of this kind of "counselor", but it is due to his superb knowledge and expecific field of intervention.
To conclude: if you want to be an all disciplines kind of freelance, you risk to give poor service to your clients, or your clients are going to be very very little guys (with all my respect for them).
p.s.: I hope Alan will pardon me for using him as a model :)
Hey Gianluca,Â
First, thanks for reading! I know I keep typing that but this is my first post and SEOmoz is a community of smart people that all post great things so the response is overwhelming!Â
Now on to your comments. I agree that there can possibly be an overlap of pros and cons in the different career opportunities (I think that's what you were saying) however I'm speaking to my experience as to where they were more likely to occur.Â
As far as specializing I agree that people do specialize but I disagree that specializing is the only way. While many may be a jack of all trades, SEO is not so esoteric that it is not possible to be a master of all trades.Â
Hi :)
the fact you're talking from your experience is what makes your post so interesting.Â
The fact you experienced all the facets of the SEO profession... well, that makes this post so universal.
Personally, as I wrote in a YouMoz here last years, I am all for the Master of All Trades consultant model. What I was trying to say was that - especially at the beginning of a freelance career - it could be better to sell yourself in one specific field in order to not find yourself with too many things to do for clients that cannot pay you what really all those things would be worth paying.
It is a simple business model, that I found good in my case (I started just auditing SEO), and that helped me to build a) a reputation in my closer SEO community b) a faithfull number of clients that - to plain talk - are those ones that let me live my job without worrying too much of my daily economy and c) thanks to the previous point - to start extending the kind of services I am providing and the rightful hability to not sell off them because of $$ urgencies... and so to make my aspiration to a most robust and also self rewarding kind of consulting possible.
Well done King! Hilarious cartoons and fairly accurate portrayl. Thanks for the insight, this definitely outlines the different career paths for SEOs and the good, bad and downright ugly.Â
Thanks Fajr!Â
Wait what do you mean fairly accurate? ;)
Haha, nice comics, really enjoyed them. Your post confirmed that I wasn't the only one with this vision about the different types of SEO careers!
Great writing! I was all laughter in my office at the agency.. with almost no one around. A few straggling staff members lurking in the other agency departments! this was a classic read, and well written and told (with graphics!!) the Mr. Men were just the perfect touch to the sarcastic overtone :) Keep it up!
This is a great post! I love reading these comparisons, especially after moving to a consultancy after working in-house. You can run into all sorts of people in both places, and both have their wins and stresses. Thanks for spelling out your thoughts and for providing some entertainment along the way!
Fantastic post. I'm an in-house link builder and have no experience doing anything else so this was some really useful insight into how working as an SEO is overall.
I really enjoyed reading this, gives persepective from every angle..
Also, +1000 for the Aesop Rock reference.
Thanks for reading man. Although in hindsight I think linking to "9 to 5ers anthem" may have been more applicable than "Labor"
My favorite line; being a freelancer: "Man this ain't the car wash or McDonald's I can't get you the works for $15 or an Extra Value Optimization." Â True dat!
Fantastic post man, SEO client is always a headace of SEOz because they want results in two days lOl :p
Great post!
I love the choice of images, and your descriptions were spot on. Makes me flash back to our time at that boutique agency.
The funniest article EVER! Great cartoons and really good job of explaining how some kind of agencies work. Thanks.
I absolutely love this post. Everytime I wonder whether I made the right move to go freelance I read this.. ever thought about making a series of these comics?
Being a freelancer is sometimes hard, but at the end it is a lot of fun. It depends however what the client wants. An agency, which costs a lot of money, or a SEO Freelancer who can do the same job, and is cheaper
I always like to hear the journey of other SEO's out there. Â Helps to see what a career path we might have and the pros and cons of each level. Â
Enlightening article! I enjoy reading this post with those descriptive and colorful caricature.. haha
CRAP - I guess you can call me Little Miss Stubborn
You've been around since P* and the BBS days too. I won't call you anything but "awesome."
What a fantastic post!Â
I am currently an SEO Freelancer and I wholeheartedly agree with you. 90% of the prospects have no clue about SEO and want you to perform miracles on a measly budget. I don't have any experience with other types of SEO Careers so this post was very insightful.
I've considered joining a company in the past and always wondered how different it would be from an independant consultant.Â
Thanks for sharing.
This is some funny stuff right here. It's funny because I think we all wrestle with the idea that, there are better horizons on the way. The reality is, we are all playing a market. So I always say, just stay creative, keep yourself level, educated, and adopt this famous saying: "Good day okay, bad day okay"!Â
Nice Post! =)
very funny and interesting pictures work, i'll prefer in-house seo
As the commercial Internet space as evolved over the past two decades the businesses that exist to help others navigate the tricky waters have as well. Initially, traditional ad agencies were harassed by smaller and more nimble digital agencies who did all the ‘neat-o cool’ whiz bang Internet stuff. SEO, PPC and other acronyms helped to spawn the type of agency that focused their efforts directly where their traditional competition was weakest and they have benefited for many years through that strategy. Debates change with time!
Very Nice demonstration of problems and solutions liked it very much.
Great post, iPR. A lengthy but really worthwhile read, which had me laughing and nodding my head along with it. As someone who's gone from agency (small start-up) to in-house (big brand), back to agency and has dabbled with freelance throughout, I can heavily relate. I'm currently in a Mr. Nonsense (Account Manager) role, although hopefully I'm not as bad as him!
I'm even currently in the middle of - and experiencing - one of your cartoons (although I won't say which one)!
The funiest post I've been readed here.
"I don't have any experience with being an in-house SEO that manages an agency relationship."
The cartoon above that statement hits it right on the nose. I had to deal with two fresh out of college kids that gave my bosses a great dog and pony show complete with a slide projector presentation talking about how good it is to be in Google. They kept insisting on having me implement stuff that was 90's style SEO and wanted complete control of the website that I not only designed and built (with tons of complicated SQL Server backend coding), but here is the kicker - I had the website at NUMBER 1 for over 40 different relative local search keywords/phrases. Regardless, I was still supposed to "learn" from them.
I constantly fought all their ridiculous ideas and their contract was not renewed after the initial 6-months.
And the kicker - my bosses paid over $12K for this and got zilch from it. I'm no longer with them thank goodness and am freelancing now.
P.S. - I've been doing SEO since before it was called SEO (mid-90's - when Alta Vista was "da bomb"). I'm talking the days of when the keyword meta tag actually meant something LOL. I'm no expert though, I'm more design/development than SEO. :)
Yes Amen Brother, oh and by the way.... There was no Google then :)
i have read a few of your posts now and always love how entertaining they are while staying helpful and informative.Â
this was a pleasure to read and really inspired me - a lot of your experiences seem very similar to the ones that i have to deal with when it comes to managing client expectations, dealing with designers, bosses, developers(oh god..).the fact that you have come from a situation like i am in now to the one you are in now gives me more hope
plus the fact that you know and like aesop rock is pretty awesome - i rarely hear anyone talk about aesop rock and zelda!
i work in a boutique SEO agency and this was a great read michael, i had marked it read later when you first posted it and just got to it. As i read I noticed the nav bar on the side wasn't really moving, I wondering how long this could be so i scrolled down and saw the outpouring of feedback! You had lots of great responses as well.
I'd say for anyone in industry, this post is a much for therapeutic purposes as for insight into other POVs, so I thank you that. The Mr. Men were a great way to hold the reader's attention and make points. And that AesopRock track is a classic, haven't heard that one since it was new. Love your style, hope to see more post from you on here.
I've worked i house, at an agency, and am now independent, and found a lot to relate to here. Thanks for the great laugh in the middle of my day!
Thanks for insight - that was quite a long post and I read most of it, lol.
My past was in personal website development, then internet marketing for ecommerce, then in-house SEO and PPC for a lead generation company, then more personal sites, dabbling in some paidlance and some freelance (read SEO for family). Now I work for a boutique agency (not sure if Ayima is boutique or not...).
Essentially each type of SEO role is so dependant on the level of surrounding experience, budget, client size, company size, and industry type that its hard to stereotype a SEO role beyond one's own particular experience IMO. I personally learned a ton and had a great time working as an in-house. Although after a year it got too routine for my liking. Our agency works with pretty large budget clients. Here the challenges and technical problems get rather huge, although the downside is often the number of non-SEOs that will be involved in all decisions and the long lengths of time waiting for your client to finally implement your recommendations. Agency work benefits from the variety of clients. I dont have any experience working for an agency with hundreds of clients and a small staff. I typically am only engaged with a few clients at a time.
An excellent article. I have seen many of these situations and not just from an SEO standpoint.
Regarding an in-house SEO managing an agency:
My experience with this has been from the agency side, and I have to say that both situations are relevant.
In my case, the agency was hired to work, but the client wanted results faster and a second opinion. Naturally they hired an independant seo consultant.
This became a case of a serious difference of opinions, and lets just say the independant was not exactly up to speed. Many decisions countered our own, and as a result there was little (sometimes counter-productive) progress. What's an agency to do?
A case where the agency does know more than the in-house, may be as common as the opposite--two sides to every story.
Thanks for the Mr. Men cartoons!
Great Article. I am new to this site and am learning so much. I have been debating which way to go for my company - in-house or agency - and was wondering if anyone had a suggestion on where to find in-house/freelance SEO professionals? I work in a fun industry and really think it would be a great opportunity.
A place like SEOmoz is a great place to find SEO professionals of all kinds. As you can probably tell from the caliber of comments here... the community is top notch!
Hi Guys, I dont really see the potential in-house if you are not a huge company. For small comanies its obvious they need a specialist for a certain time working on their project and there is no reason to hire anybody fulltime.Â
I do believe that freelancers have a higer level of skills because they are more competitive and want to sell high quality and extended services.
That depends I guess. I think we are starting to see that people with just SEO skills are less in demand. To really stand out (and make in-house an even remotely decent investment), a person has to be an expert in something else and also know SEO well. I wouldn't hire an SEO person if that is all they had on their resume nowadays. You need to be a great content writer and SEO, or great at analytics and SEO, or great at conversion optimization and SEO, or... you get the idea.
I think you also have to be careful with freelancers as well. I've had multiple people in the past year come to me as a freelancer who were just terrible, but as it turns out they were not freelancers by choice but rather as victims of the economy (aka unemployed). I'd swear many of them just read an article on Yahoo that told them that freelance SEO was the way to go, so they figured they'd give it a shot without really knowing anything about it. I don't think you can say one is better than any other. Heck, many of the best SEO's out there are 'none of the above' because they aren't working for clients - they are working for themselves because clients/agencies/companies don't pay near what they can make on their own. Of course, you can't hire those folks away, so that is the catch-22.
This is a good post read it all =) Was getting some weird looks on the train to work wearing a suit and people seeing me looking at all these MR Men images hehe =)
But yes some great arguments for and aggainst each area (probably one of the best comparisons I have seen, ever). I have previously done work in Freelance, Botique Agency and then moved into two Global Roles.
I 100% agree with the comments about Global Agencys having bosses, bosses, bosses, boss hheh...It is even more crazy when the Big boss in the UK head quarters fires over a email to PR for your country wondering why they are not ranking for a keyword for the company sites (has happened to me in the past)
But yes I have also worked in global agencys under Havas Media and more recently under Aegis Media "Holdings" so I can realate 100% to your comments about the big brands.
Also I too have seen the Bruce Clay guides in action they do not do justice, it is funny how some companies act like Bruce Clay's words are as good as Googles. It is just the long term reputation they have built up. But I think most companies are waking up to the fact that other reputable companies around and business is moving.
Regards.
That's a good point about Bruce Clay. He's like the straight-laced SEO brand that a lot of people follow. He's very Captain America whereas someone like Aaron Wall is more like Professor X.
Thanks for reading James...and if they can't respect the Mr. Men... they aren't worthy to be in your presence!
Now, this was a great comparison!! professor X VS Captain America. !!Â
Fantastic post Mike! Extremely insightful and great use of Mr. Men! Please write more - a great read by a very talented optimizer!
Keep it up man and thanks for sharing!
Thanks Cyrus!
I know you saw some of your old coworkers in here LOL.
You know its been my experience when it comes to SEO that everyone knows they need/want it and nobody really knows what it is. The business world doesn't want to take seriously this little word called - patience. They want it all and they want it all right now.
So its nice when you flip a couple of levers and Google moves for them, but its not so nice when they only see modest movement in search ranking. Patience young patowan...
We are patient BUT the problem is - most of the SEO industry workers can't keep their promises... There is an always an estimated time frame for the project, there is fixed price that we are paying for the SEO on monthly base, and there is no project (from my experience) that was done on time or even close... I agreed that SEO may take time to see the result BUT please... estimate this time correctly....
Great post Mike! I think the world needs you on an SEO roadshow, in rap. And whatever those utilization wonks tell you, in the end they just want to make profit so show them the money and you'll get your projects.... I hope!!!!
Thanks man. I look forward to adding call and response to SEO conferences haha.
This article is, quite simply... brilliance! No actually it's better than brilliant, it's creative genius!
Loving Mr. Impossible, excellent character!!
If you think agency work is redundant.... Wow.
There are always pros and cons to every scenario. I would have thought that the ability to crack a new vertical as a plus to agency work. And thus agencies would have less redundancy. I am shocked by how many SEOs tell me how good I have it working in-house. But I can't lie... I do love being in-house. Fortunately my boss, the owner, gets it. So no corporate red tape. Beyond that, I have always struggled with the con of an agency not knowing my business the way I do. I think I saw a shirt once that said...
"I prefer to keep my SEO In-House, so I don't have to deal with the Out-House Crap."
...just a joke! Don't take it too seriously, in or out of the house. =)
Just awesome!!! Can't stop thinking of who my Mr.Fuzzy is...hahah...great post!!!
Great post, have only ever worked in online marketing as a freelancer so have no point of reference for anything else.
What I will say is if wanting to work freelance, much easier to get a steady client base of the back of web design companies who have clients, who once new site is live, want SEO, PPC Management or Social Media Optimisation as well.
I don't know if I read everything from your post or not but definitely loved your cartoons and read their views...
A lot of it comes down to personal taste. Do you like being in charge of a small team or would you rather be one foot soldier in the big agency's army? Would you rather focus on one task for one client or juggle a dozen responsabilites? Once you figure out how you like to work, you'll be better able to decide where you should work.
It's been awhile since I read a good post about SEO. Nice one!
Interesting read!
Have you actually stayed at one company in an SEO role more than 12 months?
Fantastic Post iPullRank!
Would like to show you a post on the same topic written by one of our SEO colleague regarding this subject where he pointed out some more interesting thoughts & shared his own experience of working inhouse vs agency vs freelance https://webspokn.com/2011/06/in-house-vs-agency-vs-freelance-seo/
This was some good humor therapy for a Friday afternoon when I really needed it. Â Thanks! Â Anyone else insert their clients faces in each of those comic strips?Â