UPDATE September 27, 2010: Response From RipOff Report Below
May It Please the Mozzers,
It is no secret that RipOff Report has been widely and universally accused of promulgating defamatory content and then extorting money from the victims of the very libel it publishes. This business model has made RipOff Report the subject of many lawsuits. In fact, I have at least seventeen listed in the Appendix at the end of this post.
Despite the ubiquitous outcry against RipOff Report, it appears to have survived most of the legal challenges unscathed, leaving it free to carry on business as usual. RipOff Report claims never to have lost a lawsuit.
Is it true that RipOff Report has never lost a lawsuit? Is this a failure of the legal system? Are the allegations unfounded? If there is truth in the allegations, then how is the system going wrong? Why can’t RipOff Report be held responsible for its conduct?
As promised, I want to spend Legal Monday digging into these issues. In order to accomplish this, we must take a trip together through RipOff Report’s sordid legal history. In doing so, we will gain a basic understanding of the following:
• Defamation
• The Communications Decency Act (42 USC Section 230)
• The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization’s Act (“RICO Act”)
• Extortion
Let’s get started!
Yes and no. It’s true that none of the cases against RipOff Report has gone to trial. I have created an appendix of cases at the end of this post that indicates the status of each case. There are a lot of reasons for why RipOff Report has "never lost a case."
First, RipOff Report has had pretty good success in getting cases alleging mere defamation dismissed immediately. We’ll see why this is so below.
Second, RipOff Report sometimes has failed to appear to defend a lawsuit against them. When this happens, a default judgment is entered against RipOff Report. For example, RipOff Report failed to respond to a lawsuit in Canada and another one in the Caribbean. Thus, it ‘lost’ those cases, but it doesn’t really count because RipOff Report just gave up and no one ever had to hold a trial.
Third, RipOff Report, like most civil defendants, has settled many cases. When a case settles, the terms of the settlement are not public and it never goes to trial. Thus, it’s very difficult to determine who “won” when the parties settled.
Finally, there are several cases still pending. It is too early to tell how these cases will come out.
II. Why Does RipOff Report Continually “Get Off the Hook” for Spreading Lies?
First, we do not know if RipOff Report has ”gotten off the hook.” Many cases have settled and the terms of those settlement agreements are unknown. It’s entirely possible that significant amounts of cash changed hands and we will never know about it.
For example, Hy Cite Corporation settled its lawsuit with RipOff Report and its negative reports are now out of the title tag and below the fold. (I won’t link to the page, but you know where to find it.) Thus, RipOff Report clearly compromised on that issue.
⇒ Isn't It Illegal to Spread Lies About Someone? What Exactly is Defamation?
In its most general form, defamation is a false statement of fact that is harmful to a person’s reputation. Defamation is defined by each state individually, so your local jurisdiction will have slight variations, but this is a pretty good general definition. For more information about defamation, check out the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
Many, many plaintiffs in the cases against RipOff Report below made the mistake of accusing RipOff Report of posting defamatory content.
⇒ How is Bringing a Defamation Case a Mistake? Isn’t That Exactly What RipOff Report is Accused of Doing?
Well, yes. But thanks to a law known as The Communications Decency Act (“CDA,” 47 USC 230), RipOff Report cannot be sued for posting defamatory content written solely by its users. It's a different story for content that it creates.
⇒ Is RipOff Report Exploiting Some Kind of Loop Hole?
Nope. Most of us benefit from the Communications Decency Act. It makes the Search Engines and Web 2.0 function. We want users to interact with our sites without having to worry about being sued over something a user did. Sooner or later, some crazy person is going to write something on your site and you are going to be so happy for the Communications Decency Act because you’re not responsible for the crazy person’s conduct.
⇒ Why I Love the Communications Decency Act: Don’t Blame the CDA for RipOff Report’s Success
I’m going to be honest here. As someone who is in charge of handling the legal issues for a website with vibrant conversations driven by user contributions, I am relieved that the CDA exists. Without the CDA, SEOmoz would either have to independently review and investigate the accuracy of every comment posted to the site, or simply refuse to have any third party content altogether. Goodbye comments! Goodbye member profiles! See you later, YOUmoz! SEOmoz as we know it would not exist if it weren’t for the CDA.
⇒ Website Owners Are 100% Responsible for Content That They Have Created
I am an employee and I am posting this content. Thus, SEOmoz is responsible for everything contained in this post. However, SEOmoz is not responsible for your comments. (phew!)
⇒ Website Owners Risk Losing Immunity When They Alter, Develop, Collaborate, or Change User-Generated Content
It makes intuitive sense that when a website owner starts to change user-generated content, he should no longer be allowed to throw up his hands and claim no responsibility for the content.
The unresolved question for courts is where the line is between creating and editing. A certain amount of editing (for spelling, grammar) would not cause a website owner to lose immunity. However, substantial edits that affect the meaning of the user-generated content may cause the website owner to lose immunity. Thus, SEOmoz could lose immunity from suit by soliciting, creating, developing, and over-zealously editing your comments.
Similarly, RipOff Report cannot be held liable for content created by its users. Strangers can write just about whatever they want on RipOff Report and so long as Magedson (the manager and alleged controller/operator of RipOff Report)3 does not interfere, he cannot be liable. However, what if he substantially alters user-generated complaints? Is he responsible for titles containing defamatory language?
⇒ How Much Does a Website Owner Have to Change a Third Party’s Content Before He Can Be Held Liable?
No one knows right now. The statute creates very broad protection for website owners. However, if a website owner does enough editing to change the meaning of user-generated content, then immunity may be lost. There are several big cases in the pipeline that may help define this boundary in the next year or two. In the meantime, if you want to know more, you can check out the CDA immunity provisions here.
⇒ If RipOff Report Writes the Negative, Defamatory Titles and Stuffs Them With Keywords, Is That Enough to Make Them Liable for Defamation?
Arguably, yes. There is no agreement on this right now. Several courts have stated that if the plaintiffs can get evidence that RipOff Report is drafting defamatory titles, then there is a viable defamation claim and no immunity. Thus, if you’re going to sue RipOff Report, it is very important to allege that the website created and/or substantially altered the meaning of the content.1 You need to allege facts that get you around the CDA immunity provisions in order to avoid being thrown out of Court.
There is more than just speculation that Magedson was involved in altering reports. The Declaration of Dickson Earl Woodard Deposition contains the sworn testimony of the Plaintiff's former employee2 and states repeatedly that Magedson drafted fake complaints and manipulated search engines:
Attorney: So what I've gathered from all of your testimony, Dickson,
is that Ed Magedson has indirectly told you that he is responsible for
making posts about companies. He will make these posts.
Mr. Woodard: Yes.
Attorney: And then he will manipulate the search engines; is that
true?
Mr. Woodard: No question about the search engines. That's where the money is made.
In his Response to Woodard's testimony, Magedson blames Woodard for making the fake complaints.
Magedson’s deposition also throws his credibility into doubt. Read excerpts of his testimony and determine for yourself whether he’s telling the truth when he states that he did not write the email asking a disgruntled employee to write an inflammatory post about his employer.
III. The New [old] Approach: Next Generation Plaintiffs Are Focusing on RICO Act Claims Based on Extortion, Rather Than Defamation
Because the CDA bars RipOff Report from liability for many civil suits, attorneys are shifting their focus. In addition to defamation, attorneys are suing RipOff Report for violations of the RICO Act. These next generation plaintiffs allege that RipOff Report’s conduct is extortion and amounts to racketeering.
⇒ What is the RICO Act?
The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act was designed to bust up organized crime like the mob. The Godfather, as everybody knows, never did his own dirty work. He had people to take care of his unlawful business. Thus, it was not easy for law enforcement to pin him with money laundering and murder because he wasn’t doing it himself. After years of mafia domination, the legislature wised up and finally made a law that made it illegal to be the head of an organization that conducts a pattern of unlawful activity. It didn’t matter anymore if the Godfather didn’t pull the trigger. Because he was in charge of the organization that made the murder happen, he could be found liable for a RICO Act violation.
Plaintiffs are now applying this same strategy to RipOff Report litigation.
⇒ The RICO Act is a Favorite with Plaintiffs Because it Allows for Punitive Damages
There is another brilliant thing about RICO Act claims that make them a very attractive avenue to plaintiffs’ attorneys: Punitive or treble damages. If you are found liable of a RICO Act claim and you extorted $50,000.00, the Judge can order you to pay three times that amount! Most civil lawsuits (like defamation, for example) only allow plaintiffs to recover the amount that they were actually damaged. The ability to recover punitive damages is what makes RICO so suave, my friend.
⇒ What Does a Plaintiff Have to Prove to Hold RipOff Report Liable for a RICO Act Violation?
The most common RICO claim makes it unlawful for a person to manipulate an enterprise for purposes of engaging in, concealing, or benefiting from a pattern of racketeering activity. In order to prove a “racketeering activity,” you must essentially prove a crime within a crime. Extortion can serve as a “racketeering activity” under the statute.
In the case of RipOff Report, a plaintiff must demonstrate that Magedson manipulated an enterprise (RipOffReport.com) for the purpose of engaging in a pattern of extortion.
Note: If you want to learn more about the RICO Act, I commend to your attention to Mr. Jeffrey Ernest Grell’s RICO Act in at Nutshell. It’s a thorough review and will tell you everything you want to know and more about RICO.
⇒ What is Extortion: When is it Wrong to Ask Someone for Money?
RipOff Report expressly states on its site that it is not engaging in extortionate conduct. This begs the question, what is extortion? Is paying someone tens of thousands of dollars in addition to a monthly fee to help you communicate with your angry clients the price of good PR, or extortion?
Generally, the term "extortion" means the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right. In other words, you are committing extortion if you are wrongfully threatening someone to give you money or property. But it’s not always easy to determine whether the use of force is “wrongful.”
The good news is that the courts have already determined that taking money from a person in order to prevent him from being defamed is extortion. As an example, here's a kooky and highly entertaining case involving the criminal underbelly of the Church of Scientology that's surprisingly on point.
Further, several courts have ruled that the facts alleged against RipOff Report could amount to extortion. The courts in Hy Cite and Cambridge Who’s Who ruled that the allegations in the plaintiffs’ Complaints could result in a finding of extortion against RipOff Report.
⇒ Does the CDA Grant Immunity from a RICO Act Claim as Well as a Defamation Claim?
The CDA grants immunity against more claims than just defamation. For example, the CDA has granted immunity from suits involving negligent misrepresentation, interference with business expectancy, breach of contract, intentional nuisance, violations of federal civil rights, and emotional distress. However, the CDA does not grant immunity for federal criminal law, intellectual property law, and electronic communications privacy law.
The issue over whether the CDA grants immunity from RICO Act claims has not been addressed by a court yet. So far, none of the RipOff Report rulings state that the CDA grants immunity from RICO charges. However, none of the courts have found that the CDA does not grant immunity, either.
The Hy Cite Court ruled, “Here, Defendants operate a website. Plaintiff alleges that Defendants create and solicit false and defamatory complaints against businesses, but will cease this conduct for a $50,000 fee and a $1,500 monthly retainer. Remedying the publication of false and defamatory complaints, which Defendants allegedly created and solicited, does not give Defendants the right to collect fees. Plaintiff has properly alleged threatened extortion.”
Thus, so far, courts are not bothered by the implications of the CDA on the RICO Act. I for one, hope it stays this way.
IV. Where RipOff Report Litigation Should Go from Here
The steady stream of lawsuits against RipOff Report have not slowed down and there is no indication that they will. Plaintiffs have become more sophisticated in order to avoid being kicked out of Court by the Communication Decency Act’s broad immunity provisions. Plaintiffs are being sure to plead that RipOff report was directly responsible for creating defamatory content, not just publishing it.
Because a lot of us have much to gain from a strong CDA, I hope that plaintiffs will continue to press the RICO/Extortion combo. This will direct the conversation away from the CDA and focus it on the extortion elements of the case. This is appropriate because this is what makes RipOff Report’s alleged conduct so reprehensible. If RipOff report were just providing a neutral and organic platform to publish good and bad comments about businesses, no one would be complaining.
What transforms this site from a consumer advocacy site to a menace (allegedly) is its aggressive violations of Google’s terms of service to increase its rankings, and concomitant demands for exorbitant fees to write a few rebuttal posts. It is not the defamatory nature of the posts that are the problem. After all, those are all over the web and probably always will be. The problem here is the apparent intent to damage a person or business’s reputation without regard to the truth of the matter, only to re-victimize the person or business by charging them exorbitant fees.
The legal theories have come a long way. A lot of cases are in aggressive investigation phases right now. I’m hoping that some plaintiff out there will take this case “all the way” so that the public can finally have full access to the evidence and testimony necessary to make a fair decision. If the allegations against RipOff Report are true, I believe the RICO Act is the best method for holding RipOff Report accountable.
Thank you for taking the time to read this Anatomy of a RipOff Report lawsuit. I hope you have found it interesting and useful. As always, I welcome your questions and comments. In particular, please let me know if you know of any cases that are not included in my Appendix below.
Very truly yours,
Sarah
Ottis v. Magedson—Filed October 18, 2007, in the Nebraska District Court under cause number 4:2007cv03251. Mr. Ottis is asserting both libel and RICO Claims. Case Pending.
Children of America v. Magedson—Filed February 2007, in Maricopa County Superior Court in Arizona under cause number CV 2007-003720. The Court ruled that CofA may have a claim against Magedson for creating and developing complaints and/or titles to complaints. The case is still pending. If anyone has further information about this case, please let me know.
Xcentric Ventures v. Stanley—Filed May 20, 2007, in Arizona’s District Court under cause number 2:2007cv00954. This is an unusual case because ROR is the Plaintiff. Further, one of the named defendants is The Defamation Action League. How cool does that sound? There are some very interesting documents in the docket here. My favorite is a police report filed by Magedson regarding threatening letters that he received. He drops the complaint once the police begin investigating. You be the judge: Does it sound like Magedson made the whole thing up? The case is still pending with discovery (disputes) active.
Global Royalties v Xcentric—Filed May 10, 2007, in Arizona’s District Court under cause number 2:2007cv00956. The case is still active and pending a decision by the 9th Circuit ruling on the Roommates case (which will interpret the CDA). UPDATE: The case was dismissed in February 2008. The District Court granted ROR's Motion to Dismiss, ruling that mere allegations that ROR encouraged third parties to create defamatory postings was not sufficient to get Global Royalties around the broad CDA immunity. Notably, the question of a RICO act violation was not before the Court. Instead, the Court ruled consistently with prior CDA cases stating that if a third party wrote the content, ROR is not liable for defamation. This is true even when the original poster of the defamatory content later admits that the statements are not true and asks ROR to remove them. The Court states, "Unless Congress amends the statute, it is legally (although perhaps not ethically) besides the point whether defendants refuse to remove the material, or how they might use it to their advantage." You can read the Court's entire Order here.
GW Equity v. Xcentric—Filed June 1, 2007, in Texas Northern District Court under cause number 3:2007cv00976. This one is the source of some great declarations by a former employee who throws Magedson under the proverbial bus. Magedson’s only retort is that the employee was lying and that it was actually the employee inventing these stories. The case includes a RICO claim. The case is still pending and discovery is active.
RSA v. Rip-OffReport.com—Filed April 23, 2007, in the New Jersey District Court under cause number 2:07cv01882-HAA-ES. RSA also sued Google in this case. That was a mistake. Case voluntarily Dismissed in August 2007. The report is still online and there is a rebuttal from the owner.
IGIA v. Xcentric—Filed January 2007, in the Southern District Court of New York under cause number 1:07-cv-00222-SAS-KNF. Complaint alleges RICO Act and Defamation claims. Default Judgment entered on December 20, 2007. The Defendant did not appear and defend the lawsuit.
Manchanda Law Offices v. Xcentric--Filed July 25, 2007, in the New York Southern District Court under cause number 1:2007cv06708. Originally failed to plead RICO, but amended the Complaint in October 2007 to include a RICO claim. The lawsuit was never served and was withdrawn by the Plaintiff in November 2007. The negative “reports” are still on Ripoff Report.
Magedson v. Sharp—Filed February 2007, in Maricopa County Arizona State Court under cause number CV2007-001968. The case is still pending. If anyone has further information about this case, please let me know.
Energy Automation Systems v. Xcentric Ventures—Filed November 2, 2006, in Tennessee’s Middle District Court under cause number 3:2006cv01079. Recently Settled.
Cambridge Who’s Who Publishing v. Xcentric—Filed December 11, 2006, in New York’s District Court under cause number 2:2006cv06590. Settled January 16, 2008.
Magedson v. Federated Financial Services—Filed October 2005, in Maricopa County Arizona under cause number CV2005-015552. Case dismissed December 2005. If anyone has further information about this case, please pass it on.
Hy Cite v. Badbusinessbureau.com—Filed December 11, 2004, in Arizona District Court under cause number 2:2004cv02856. The plaintiff amended its Complaint to include defamation, RICO Act claims, and trademark infringement. The Court dismissed the trademark associated claims, but ruled that the RICO Act claims and the claims that Magedson authored and/or edited defamatory statements can go forward. The case includes a thoughtful and well-written Order authored by Judge Earl H. Carroll going through the legal arguments and defenses. Surely, this well-reasoned order created the impetus necessary for the parties to settle in May 2007. Interestingly, Hy Cite is still listed on RipOffReport.com, but unlike other rebuttals to complaints, the rebuttal appears in the title and above the Complaint. I speculate that this could have been part of the settlement terms. [Note: Hy Cite originally filed in Wisconsin. However, that case was dismissed because the Wisconsin ruled that it didn’t have jurisdiction over RipOffReport.com et al.]
Whitney Information Network v. Xcentric—Filed January 27, 2004, in Florida’s Middle District Court under cause number 2:2004cv00047. This case is helpful for providing evidence that Magedson solicited reports designed to harass businesses. See document 158-2, which is an excerpt from a deposition with Magedson in which he discusses an email where he invites a disgruntled employee to “post something or part of the e-mail below? This would be great, and it would definitely piss them off!” UPDATE: This case is now dismissed. In February 2008, the District Court dismissed this case after Ripoff Report filed a Motion for Summary Judgment. The only claim before the Court was defamation. There was no RICO Act violation alleged in the Complaint. The Court ruled that RipOff Report cannot be held liable for defamation by having created the drop-down menu of descriptions (such as "scam" and "rip off") from which the person filing the report chooses to describe his or her report. In other words, drop down menus don't make you an author. The Court noted that Ed and other RipOff Report employees submitted signed statements indicating that they had never authored a report. The plaintiff did not submit any evidence that RipOff Report authored the reports at issue in the case. Thus, the Court held that the case was dismissed because there was no evidence that RipOff Report authored the reports at issue in this case. You can read the Court's Order here. Also, you can read Eric Goldman's summary here. While looking for the Court's order in this case, I found the transcript from Ed Magedson's deposition taken back in August 2007. I'm sorry it is broken up into many many pieces. I'm going to list them here for those who are interested. Parts 1-9 are the deposition and index; the remaining parts are exhibits. Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8, Part 9, Part 10, Part 11, Part 12, Part 13, Part 14, Part 15, Part 16, Part 17, Part 18, Part 19, Part 20, Part 21, Part 22, Part 23, Part 24, Part 25, Part 26, Part 27, Part 28, Part 29, Part 30
George S. May Intl v. Xcentric—Filed September 15, 2004, in Illinois District Court under cause number 1:2004cv06018. Agreed dismissal in February 2007.
Pritchard v. Magedson—Filed April 14, 2004, in the Western District of Pennsylvania under cause number 2:04-cv-00567-JFC. Case closed on Plaintiff’s Motion on May 2004.
Leavenbaum v. Xcentric—Filed October 2004, in Maricopa County Superior Court for the State of Arizona under cause number CV2004-020368. Case closed on October 2005 by an Order on Dismissal. If anyone has further information about this case, I am curious.
Alyon Technologies v Badbusinessbureau.com—Filed 2003 in the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court In the High Court of Justice Federation of Saint Christopher and Nevis Saint Christopher Circuit under claim number SKBHCV2003/052. Default Judgment entered on July 4, 2003 for $27,100,932.00 because the defendants failed to appear and defend themselves in the suit.
MCW v Badbusinessbureau.com—Filed December 2002, in the Northern District of Texas District Court under cause number 3:06cv0179. There is a valuable opinion from this unpublished case that states Magedson is not entitled CDA immunity to the extent that he is developing and creating “report titles, headings, and some of the defamatory messages posted on the websites.” Case closed and the report is still online with no rebuttal.
Magedson v Village Voice Media--Filed January 31, 2008, in Maricopa County State Court under cause number CV2008-002416. Unfortunately I don't have access to the Complaint that was filed. However, I imagine that Magedson is suing because of this article written in the Pheonix New Times News. Ironically, he may be suing the news paper for defamation-related claims. If anyone has a copy of this Complaint, please send me a copy. UPDATE: ROR write defensive letter about filing this case.
1 It was brought to my attention on March 21, 2008 by David Gingras, an attorney for RipOff Report, that this comment may "invite people to make knowingly false allegations." Although I don't think my article does this, I want to make sure that the reader understands I am not advocating dishonesty. Please do not make knowingly false allegations against any person or company at any time.
2 Previously, inaccurately reported as RipOff Report's former employee.
3 It was brought to my attention on March 28, 2008 by Maria Crimi Speth, another attorney for RipOff Report, that Ed Magedson is not the owner of RipOff Report. Xcentric Ventures is the legal owner of RipOff Report. Ed Magedson manages Xcentric. Many Complaints allege that he operates and controls Xcentric and RipOff Report.
I. INTRODUCTION
If you’re reading this page, chances are you’re looking for information about the website www.RipoffReport.com or its founder, consumer advocate Ed Magedson. Maybe you or someone you know has been reported on the site. Maybe you are seeking options for how you can respond to a report. Maybe you are an attorney doing research on the Ripoff Report’s litigation history, and you want to know why so many lawsuits have been brought against the site and why so many lawsuits have failed. Maybe you’re a person who just doesn’t like the Ripoff Report for some reason and you’re trying to connect with others who share your views.
Whoever you are, if you have just finished reading SEOmoz’s article about us you may feel you know more about the Ripoff Report than you did before. You may even feel you have gained some legal insight and factual knowledge that may help you effectively combat a Ripoff Report, whether in a court of law or in the court of public opinion. We have some important news for you—you’ve only heard half the story, and if you think the “Anatomy of a Ripoff Report Lawsuit” article was fair or balanced or insightful or accurate, you need to hear the Ripoff Report’s response before reaching that conclusion. Given the chorus of negative and sometimes hateful criticism directed at our site, we think you’ll be surprised when you hear what Ripoff Report has to say.
We know that the Ripoff Report is very polarizing; you either love it or you hate it. We know that no one likes to have negative things said about them. We get that. We know that many people would like to see the Ripoff Report disappear completely. We also know that millions of users visit our site each month and we know they feel it’s an incredibly valuable tool and a powerful resource. We also know that the Ripoff Report is frequently used by local, state, and federal law enforcement to locate victims of frauds, scams, and other illegal practices (we know this because we work with law enforcement on a regular basis and frequently receive letters of appreciation for those efforts).
We also understand that many people who visit this page have already made up their minds about the Ripoff Report. We realize that nothing we say here will ever change that. This response is not written for those of you who have already decided that the Ripoff Report is evil. Rather, this response is intended to provide all of you undecided folks out there with helpful, true, accurate, and complete information about the Ripoff Report so that you can reach an informed decision about whether to love us or hate us, whether to sue the site, whether to post a rebuttal to a complaint, or whether to respond in some other fashion (such as hiring an SEO company). Hopefully, once you hear OUR side of the story, you’ll be much better informed about these different options.
We absolutely recognize and respect the right of our critics to disagree with the way we operate. At the same time, conclusions about us (or anything else) shouldn’t be based on false, incomplete, or misleading information masquerading as fact. So, we invite you to listen to our side of the story and then decide for yourself who is telling the truth about the real Ripoff Report.
WHY HAS RIPOFF REPORT TAKEN SO LONG TO RESPOND?
Before we begin our response, it’s important to explain something about the timing of this action and the reasons behind it. As many visitors to this page may already know, back in 2009 the Ripoff Report filed a lawsuit against SEOmoz and Sarah Bird based on the “Anatomy of a Ripoff Report Lawsuit” article. A complete discussion of that case is beyond the scope of this response, but we want to share some basic details so that you understand the timing and context of this response.
Our Complaint (which you can read here) accused the article’s author, Ms. Bird, of making various false statements about the Ripoff Report in her article. In addition, it alleged that the article encouraged people to make false claims in lawsuits against the Ripoff Report such as claiming that we created defamatory material in reports when, in fact, we did not. For the record, Ms. Bird and SEOmoz disputes these claims and disagrees with our characterization of the article.
Ms. Bird and SEOmoz asked the court in Arizona to dismiss the Complaint on technical grounds—they argued that Arizona lacked personal jurisdiction over them. This is a fancy way of saying, “You can’t sue me in Arizona because I don’t live there and don’t have any ties or contacts there.” Among other things, this argument was based on Ms. Bird’s claim that she did not know the Ripoff Report was based in Arizona. If you’re interested, you can read SEOmoz’s Motion to Dismiss here, Ripoff Report’s response here, and SEOmoz’s reply here.
Our lawsuit against SEOmoz was filed on January 21, 2009, and the Motion to Dismiss was filed a few months later in May 2009. Eventually, we received an order (available here) granting SEOmoz’s Motion to Dismiss. In layman’s terms, this means that the judge dismissed our lawsuit because the court decided that it should have been filed in Washington State (where SEOmoz is based) rather than Arizona (where the Ripoff Report is based).
Now, for all you non-lawyers out there, it is important to understand that this type of ruling does NOT mean that we “lost” or that the court found in favor of SEOmoz on the merits of the case. Rather, the ruling merely addressed the location where the case should have been brought, not whether Ripoff Report’s claims were well-founded. In her ruling dismissing the case for lack of jurisdiction, the judge simply held that posting defamatory statements about another person on the Internet is not sufficient to expose the author to jurisdiction in the state where the plaintiff is located.
We decided to exercise our right to appeal the matter to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. During that process and because the courts are so congested, the appellate court routinely asks the parties to engage in settlement discussions to see if they can find an alternative solution to their dispute. In the course of these discussions, Ripoff Report made the decision to settle the case and forego our right to appeal. In exchange, SEOmoz agreed to publish this response explaining our side of the story.
Although we continue to believe that our lawsuit was valid and that certain statements in the SEOmoz article are false and defamatory, waiting up to two years for the appeal to be decided was not a realistic option for us. Instead of spending years in court, we hope to use this opportunity to educate the public about the REAL story—the one that SEOmoz never told you. Whether or not you agree with the law or with Ripoff Report’s policy decisions, we hope that you listen closely to what we have to say and then decide for yourself—is the “Anatomy of a Ripoff Report Lawsuit” an honest evaluation of the Ripoff Report, or is it simply another smear campaign? You be the judge.
II. PREFACE—THE #1 MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND
Although the truth isn’t always as exciting as fiction, we think that people reading this page should know the details that SEOmoz never bothered to tell you—such as what it’s really like to sue Ripoff Report and the risks plaintiffs may face when suing us. We will get to that in a minute, and we will also explain to you the inside background of Ed Magedson, the operation of the Ripoff Report, and even the real story about the federal RICO/racketeering law that the article suggests could be the future downfall of the Ripoff Report. (SPOILER ALERT—the article is completely wrong about RICO, and we’ll tell you exactly why).
Before we begin that discussion, it is essential to understand one crucial fact about Internet law, and yes, this is the part where we need to talk about the Communications Decency Act (or “CDA” for short). If you’re unhappy about something posted online, the CDA (which is a federal law that applies to any case brought anywhere in the United States) controls most types of claims you may have. If you misunderstand this law or refuse to accept what the CDA says, you’re going to have a very hard time understanding or agreeing with any of our remarks since much of what we say and do is based on the rules created by the CDA.
Now, the SEOmoz article gives some basic information about the CDA, so we don’t need to cover the law from scratch. However, when it comes to Internet posts, you just need to be aware that the law makes a very clear distinction between two parties:
A.) The “author” (meaning the person who actually wrote something posted online); and
B.) Everyone else (such as websites hosting the content)
Under the CDA, the author of something posted online is always responsible for the accuracy of his or her words. Although defamation claims are extremely complicated (particularly here in the United States) authors generally can be sued for what they say and they can be held accountable for any false statements they make. So, when an author creates a false and defamatory statement, you can always sue the author and recover any and all damages you can prove were caused by the untrue statement(s). The CDA does not affect your right to sue the author in any way, so if you’ve been unfairly criticized in an online post, you can take the author to court if you feel that’s the best option.
But what about everyone else? Can you sue other people besides the original author, such as the company hosting the website where the statements were posted? What about people who re-post material written by someone else? Do they share the same responsibility as the original author? Do they have any responsibility at all for the accuracy of the material?
As the article explains and as many, many courts have held, the general answer is NO—the CDA prohibits plaintiffs (this means the person who brings a lawsuit) from suing any third parties (like Ripoff Report) for material written by someone else. This is a very clear and basic rule, and this is the reason why Ripoff Report has been so successful in court. As a general rule and with only limited exceptions as explained below, we do NOT create reports and we do NOT change reports. Unfortunately, people lie about this all the time but the facts are the facts—we simply don’t write reports or change reports (except for clearly marked editorial comments/postings and other material as explained below). For that reason, you can sue the author who creates any false statement about you but you cannot blame Ripoff Report for providing the forum where such statements are posted. As the saying goes: “Don’t shoot the messenger… .” Ripoff Report is just the messenger of comments written by our users, and under the CDA, you can’t blame us for the content of someone else’s message.
This may sound unfair at first, but if you honestly stop and think about it, it’s not. Why not? Because consider what the Internet would look like without the CDA—websites would no longer permit visitors to post any material. Doing so would lead to unlimited liability for the website even if it didn’t create or alter (or even see) the offending content, so rather than taking the risk, websites would just block any/all content from visitors. Don’t think that’s such a big deal? Imagine the impact this would have on the amount of content available online. Here are just a few examples—
- Without the CDA, product reviews on Amazon.com and user feedback on eBay.com would no longer be allowed because one false comment by a user could result in these sites being dragged into court and sued for unlimited damages.
- Without the CDA, Facebook.com would not exist because the site would have to fact-check every posting made by all of its 500 million+ users.
- Without the CDA, Youtube.com would not exist because the site would be liable for any inaccurate statements made in a video posted to the site.
- Without the CDA, there would be no Twitter.com, Wikipedia.com, LinkedIn.com, Craigslist.com, Blogger.com … basically no sites that allow users to post material.
- Without the CDA, you wouldn’t be allowed to post comments about Ripoff Report on SEOmoz.org or any other site.
- Without the CDA, huge amounts of content on search engines like Google would vanish because search engines would be required to verify each comment made on the billions of pages they index or risk liability for anything inaccurate that appears on an indexed page.
Are you starting to get the picture? Without the CDA (which has only been around since 1996), the Internet would immediately revert back to something like what it was in the early 1990s—a bland, slow-moving, rarely-updated world with little new content, limited or no ability to post real-time comments, and virtually no way to quickly share thoughts and ideas with a broader audience. Is that really something you want to encourage? Despite all the criticism and uproar over it, the CDA makes the Internet much more vibrant, interesting, and useful. Make no mistake about it—if you take away the CDA, you take away many aspects of free speech that your fellow Americans have fought and died for. It’s that serious.
Now, Ripoff Report has heard the argument, “Yeah, well the CDA wasn’t intended to work this way…” or “Ripoff Report is exploiting a loophole in the law … .” This criticism is understandable to a degree, but what we don’t understand is this—what is so unique about Ripoff Report that we should be treated differently from any other site? Is it the fact that people use our site to post negative complaints? If that’s the standard, then surely SEOmoz should also be denied CDA immunity for the many angry comments posted about us on this page, right?
We anticipate that most people would respond to this with a few main arguments such as:
- Ripoff Report should be denied immunity because it allows anyone to post anything without any kind of verification no matter how harmful it might be;
- Ripoff Report should be denied immunity because it keeps reports on the site permanently and won’t remove something even if it’s later proven to be false;
- Ripoff Report should be denied immunity because it charges money to companies who want help dealing with negative reports.
OKAY—points noted. But aren’t one or more (or even all) of these arguments also applicable to many other websites that allows users to post comments? After all, to our knowledge, SEOmoz does nothing to confirm or verify any of the comments posted here. Does that mean that SEOmoz isn’t protected by the CDA? What about Google or Bing or Yahoo? They index and link to content without any verification, and they won’t remove anything simply because you ask them to. Should we exclude search engines from protection under the CDA? Of course, if there’s something negative about you at the top of their search results, search engines won’t take it down but they will happily accept your payment to run favorable advertisements to mitigate the negative information. Is that extortion?
Emotional arguments like these might make you feel better, but they usually are not helpful because they’re focused on a problem, not a solution. Maybe someday in the future our Congress will find a better solution to negative online speech in a way that doesn’t simultaneously destroy the right to free speech that we all enjoy, but until they do, the CDA is here to stay.
OTHER BASIC CDA RULES YOU NEED TO KNOW
Before we turn to the more specific parts of our response, it’s worth responding to and debunking a few legal myths about the CDA that seem to be circulating out there. Accepting these basic rules will hopefully help provide a better explanation for Ripoff Report’s protection under the law.
RULE #1—Creating or Editing SOME Content Does NOT Affect CDA Immunity As To OTHER Content
One of the most popular CDA myths goes something like this—Ed Magedson made changes to Report #123 on the site and therefore he has lost CDA immunity as to ALL reports on the site. Sounds good, right?
The problem with this is that Courts have been extremely clear in explaining that CDA immunity is not an “all or nothing” deal. In other words, a website can create (or change) some content without losing immunity as to any other content that it didn’t change; “It is not inconsistent … to be an interactive service provider and also an information content provider; the categories are not mutually exclusive. The critical issue is whether [the website] acted as an information content provider with respect to the information that … is false or misleading.” Gentry v. eBay, Inc., 99 Cal.App.4th 816, 833 note 11, 121 Cal.Rptr.2d 703, 717 note 11 (Cal. 4th App. Dist. 2002) (emphasis added).
So, what does this mean in plain language? It’s pretty simple—if Ed Magedson creates an entire report (say Report #123), he would absolutely be responsible for that entire report. Likewise, if someone else wrote Report #123 but Ed made significant changes to it that altered its meaning, he might be responsible for those changes but he is still protected by the CDA as to everything else that he did not create or change. So, unless you want to bring a lawsuit based on something you can prove was created or materially modified by Ed, then the CDA will still apply and will prevent you from suing Ed or Ripoff Report for something that someone else wrote. Courts have consistently agreed with this argument in cases involving the Ripoff Report. Some recent examples are Intellect Art Multimedia, Inc. v. Milewski, 2009 WL 2915273 (N.Y.Sup. 2009); Whitney Information Network, Inc. v. Xcentric Ventures, LLC, 2008 WL 450095 (M.D.Fla. 2008) and GW Equity, LLC v. Xcentric Ventures, LLC, 2009 WL 62173 (N.D.Tex. 2009).
RULE #2—Providing A List Of Categories Does NOT Affect CDA Immunity
If you have ever used Ripoff Report to create a post, you know that we offer a broad list of categories and topics that people can pick from to characterize their reports. Some of the categories are extremely generic such as “Automotive” or “Electronics”, while others are a bit more provocative such as “Outrageous & Popular Rip-Off”. We used to have a category called “Corrupt Companies” but we decided to delete that one in favor of some more neutral terms. As of September 2010, we now have more than 500 different categories and topics to choose from when submitting a report.
When creating a new report, an author is required to pick one category and one topic to describe their submission, but we do not tell authors which ones they should use. In addition, we do not move reports from one category to another. For those reasons, regardless of what category an author chooses to apply to a report, the CDA continues to protect us from liability based on an author’s category selection because merely providing a list of categories to choose from is “minor and passive participation in the development of content [that] will not defeat CDA immunity, which can even withstand more active participation.” Global Royalties, Ltd. v. Xcentric Ventures, LLC, 2007 WL 2949002, *3 (D.Ariz. 2007).
RULE #3—Ripoff Report’s Corporate Advocacy Program Does NOT Affect CDA Immunity
Later in this rebuttal we will talk in more detail about Ripoff Report’s “Corporate Advocacy Program” or “CAP” which is a paid service we offer to companies who want extra help (beyond the free options we offer) dealing with customer service issues. Some people who don’t like or don’t understand the program have called it a form of “extortion” and they have argued that the CAP program somehow causes Ripoff Report to lose its protection under the CDA. This argument is just plain wrong. In fact, this argument has been rejected by every court that has considered the issue, so don’t take our word for it. Here’s how a federal judge in Texas explained the impact our Corporate Advocacy Program has on our CDA immunity:
Defendants have a “Corporate Advocacy Program,” in which, for a fee, Defendants will investigate “rip-off reports” targeting a company and draft and post rebuttals to a negative report. The Court does not find this makes Defendants “information content providers” under the CDA. Plaintiff cites no case law demonstrating that such conduct bars CDA immunity, and has not demonstrated that the “Corporate Advocacy Program” has played any role in this case. Like other courts to consider this issue, this Court does not find the “Corporate Advocacy Program” prohibits Defendants from immunity under the CDA.
GW Equity, LLC v. Xcentric Ventures, LLC, 2009 WL 62173, * 13 (N.D.Tex. 2009) (emphasis added).
Now, if a federal judge has determined that the CAP program does not affect Ripoff Report’s immunity under the CDA, why do people keep repeating this myth? What purpose does this serve? Ironically, critics of the Ripoff Report seem to think that spreading misinformation like this somehow helps their position, but really the opposite is true—they just end up hurting themselves and anyone else who believes these lies by encouraging them to pursue lawsuits that have no chance of success. As explained later in this rebuttal, people who rely on the myths and lies about the Ripoff Report have consistently lost in court and have wasted huge amounts of their own time and money in the process. Although we do not expect our critics to take our word for it, the fact remains that our litigation track record proves that suing us (as opposed to the author) is not a smart way to respond to a report on our site. You can believe our critics who claim that we’re wrong, but unless a critic is willing to pay your legal bills, we wouldn’t recommend trusting their advice.
III. SPECIFIC COUNTERPOINTS
Background Of Ed Magedson & The Ripoff Report
Now that we’ve talked a little about the law, let’s discuss some facts. For all that’s been said and written about Ed Magedson and the Ripoff Report, it’s amazing how little of it is actually true. Well…it’s not really that amazing. A long time ago, one of Ed Magedson’s most outspoken critics vowed to do to Ed what he perceived Ed did to him—destroy his reputation. He made up and widely disseminated numerous lies. Those lies have been repeated over and over. Examples? Here’s a few: Ed is a wanted criminal and a fugitive in hiding (FALSE). Ed is a convicted felon (FALSE). The feds (FBI and FTC) are investigating Ed (FALSE). Ed has been criminally charged with activities like extortion/racketeering (FALSE). There’s a $20,000 reward for his capture and arrest (FALSE). The list of lies goes on and on. Isn’t it ironic that the same people who claim that Ripoff Report is “horrible” for spreading false information are doing exactly that?
Our critics also say that Google is “in bed with” Ripoff Report and that our “honeymoon with Google must stop”. This is baseless. The truth is this—Ripoff Report has no deal, no understanding and no relationship with Google. Virtually all of the garbage written about Ed Magedson is nothing but a groundless smear campaign undertaken by people who have complaints about them on www.RipoffReport.com or people who have an economic interest in generating fear about the Ripoff Report (such as SEO providers). Don’t believe that’s really the case? Here’s an easy way to check—if you see a page which slams Ripoff Report, see if you can determine who the author is (like most phonies, these folks usually don’t say who they are). If you can find an actual name, go search for it on Ripoff Report. We’ll bet you’ll find several reports which were posted long before the article which criticizes us. Apparently, these misguided individuals believe that they can discredit negative postings about them by attacking Ed Magedson, thereby making themselves look better.
History is filled with examples of this type of conduct. We all remember the 1995 murder trial of OJ Simpson which ended with OJ’s acquittal. Even though virtually everyone believed he was guilty, OJ was acquitted largely because of the credibility of one of the lead detectives on the case, Mark Fuhrman, who found a bloody glove on Simpson’s property. During the trial, Detective Fuhrman lied about his of racial epithets in the past, and Simpson’s lawyers hammered him for it, calling Fuhrman, “a genocidal racist, a perjurer, America's worst nightmare and the personification of evil.” Ouch. Even though all the other evidence of his guilt was overwhelming, OJ was acquitted largely because of the relentless attack on Detective Fuhrman. Although OJ used this tactic to “win” his case, was justice really served by doing so? Apparently our critics think so because they use the exact same strategy—attack the messenger to generate doubt about the message.
Ed Magedson is nothing like Detective Fuhrman, but his critics apparently feel they can use the same tricks that OJ and his lawyers did—spread awful lies about Ed Magedson and make people question Ed’s motives and credibility. This tactic worked for OJ, so why wouldn’t it work for anyone named in a Ripoff Report?
The answer to this is should be obvious—no matter what they say about him, Ed Magedson is not the person who writes each report on the Ripoff Report site. So, when people use OJ’s tactics and try to cover up a report by attacking Ed, this really accomplishes nothing.
Who Is Ed Magedson?
Okay, so if Ed Magedson isn’t the bad guy that everyone claims, then who is he? What’s the deal with those crazy mugshots you see plastered on various websites? Is he really a fugitive on the run from the law? Here’s the real story.
Ed is a lifelong consumer advocate who grew up in New York and who has been involved in a wide variety of businesses over the past 35 years. Among other things, Ed has been a real estate investor and developer, night club owner, publisher, author, and even a musician. In the 1970s, Ed started a small business—the “Flower Children”—that hired young hippies and senior citizens to sell flowers on street corners all across America. Eventually, the flower business grew into a nationwide operation with stores in more than 30 states. Based on his experience, Ed knows exactly what it’s like to be a hard-working entrepreneur, putting his heart and soul into starting and growing a business from the ground up.
For the last 20+ years, Ed has lived in the Phoenix, Arizona metropolitan area. Although he’s not willing to disclose his home address for obvious reasons, he is not in hiding and he’s not even difficult to reach. You can always feel free to email him ([email protected]) or just give him a call at (602) 359-4357 (follow the prompts and you’ll be connected to Ed). You can also send regular mail to Ed at PO Box 310, Tempe, AZ 85280.
Ed has always been a “people person”. He is an idealist who is passionate about fighting for civil rights and fighting against political corruption. Ed’s main focus is helping others and fighting to strengthen consumer’s rights, particularly in cases where the little guy (the average consumer) has been victimized by the big guy (large corporations, etc.). No matter what the problem is—poor customer service, dishonest salespeople, and fly-by-night scammers—Ed has spent the last 20 years helping consumers fight back by giving them a powerful forum to speak out and share their stories with others. That’s why he created the Ripoff Report website. Since the Ripoff Report was created in 1997, Ed has spent literally millions of dollars fighting to defend the First Amendment and to protect the free speech rights of the many millions of individuals who use the Ripoff Report website.
Now, about those mugshots and all of the anti-Ed sites posting them…here’s the truth. Nearly 40 years ago in the early 1970s, before the first personal computer was created, Ed was busted in Florida with a tiny amount of marijuana. Yes, that’s right—just like President Obama, President Clinton, and President George W. Bush, Ed has tried some pot. If you think this has anything to do with the accuracy of information appearing on the Ripoff Report in the year 2010, then you’re entitled to that opinion, but we don’t see the connection.
Also, in 1974 Ed was the victim of identity theft. Someone stole Ed’s checkbook and used it to pass several bogus checks. After some of those checks bounced, Ed was arrested and charged with passing the bad checks. The “mugshots” from this arrest are the ones you see all over the Internet on anti-Ripoff Report sites. However, as soon as the police realized that Ed wasn’t the one who wrote the checks, the case was dropped.
Now, does this sound like the background of a hardened criminal engaged in racketeering? We don’t think so, but apparently our critics feel that digging up and misrepresenting ancient dirt like this will somehow make people doubt the 600,000+ reports posted on our site. OJ Simpson might support this kind of smear campaign, but now that you have heard the truth do you really think you can trust all of those anti-ROR sites? We sure hope you’re smarter than that.
The REAL Story About How Ripoff Report Operates
Enough about Ed—let’s talk about the Ripoff Report site. It’s a little strange, but lots of people claim to be self-professed experts in how the Ripoff Report operates. Yet when you dig a little deeper and ask them whether they have ever actually tried to create a report themselves, their answer is almost always the same: “Uh, well, no.” Likewise, have they ever spoken to Ed Magedson? “Um, well, no.” Ever been part of the Corporate Advocacy Program? “No.” Ever spoken to anyone who was on the program? “No.”
This is really unfortunate because the process for how reports are created is hardly a secret—anyone is welcome to log into www.RipoffReport.com at any time and see for themselves how the process works. In short, the process is quick, easy, and free, and if you follow these steps, you’ll instantly see that our critics have grossly misrepresented the role we play in creating reports and their titles.
How Reports Are Created
Currently, reports on our site are created in a simple five-step process that includes the following:
STEP 1—Basic Info
The author is presented with blank forms asking for information about the person/company they want to report. The information requested includes the subject’s name, address, and phone number. Contrary to popular belief, we don’t “solicit” people to write reports about any specific company. Our users are literally given a blank slate to write about whomever or whatever they want.
STEP 2—Title & Category
The author creates a title for their report by entering text into four boxes which include the company’s name, a short description of what the report is about, the city and state where the company is located. As an author enters text into the four blank boxes, their text is combined into a one or two line title which is displayed in real time so the author sees the title exactly as it will appear on the site. The author is also required to pick a topic and category from a list of more than 500+ options to describe their report.
NOTE—Some people falsely suggest or imply that Ed Magedson or someone else at our site writes the titles to reports. SEOmoz’s article even asks a loaded “hypothetical” question—“If RipOff Report Writes the Negative, Defamatory Titles and Stuffs Them With Keywords, Is That Enough to Make Them Liable for Defamation?” That almost sounds like SEOmoz knows something you don’t, doesn’t it?
TO BE CLEAR—THIS IS 100% FALSE. RIPOFF REPORT DOES NOT CREATE TITLES TO REPORTS AND DOES NOT ‘STUFF’ TITLES WITH KEYWORDS. Like the text of reports themselves, report titles are written solely by the original user at the time they submit their report.
Don’t believe us? That’s fine—you can easily confirm this yourself by logging into the Ripoff Report and seeing exactly how the title creation process works. If you have any doubts about where report titles come from, please take five minutes and do this. When you do, you’ll see what we mean—every word in the title is supplied by the author, not by the Ripoff Report.
STEP 3—Write Your Report
In this step, the author is presented with a blank box into which they can type their report. Other than a few very generic suggestions (such as advising people not to write in ALL CAPS), Ripoff Report doesn’t offer any guidance about what the user should say.
STEP 4—Add Photos
Recently, we added a new option which allows users to attach photos to reports. This may be helpful for someone who wants to include a document such as an invoice or a receipt supporting their complaint. Companies can also use this feature during the rebuttal process to upload any proof that they have showing a report is false. Of course, Ripoff Report is fully compliant with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act or “DMCA”, and we will remove any infringing photos from a report if we receive a valid DMCA notice.
STEP 5—Submit Report
Once an author has created a title, typed their report, and attached any photos they may have, the last step is to click a box agreeing to our Terms of Service. Among other things, users must agree that their report is truthful and valid. Our terms also explain that we won’t remove reports upon request, so if anyone feels that they may want to delete a report in the future, they’re free to use another site.
The Review Process – What We Remove/Don’t Remove
Once a report is submitted, it doesn’t appear on the site immediately. Instead, all reports are held until they can be reviewed by one of our staff members who we call “content monitors”. The content monitors review every submission to the site in order to make sure the report is appropriate (reports may be rejected if they contain little or no useful substance). The content monitors will also remove any material that is illegal such as threats of violence, social security numbers, bank account information, or other personal details which could be used to commit identity theft. Ripoff Report maintains a strict set of written guidelines that each content monitor must follow during this process, and following a recent upgrade to our software, all changes are tracked and logged so there’s no dispute about what the user originally submitted versus the way the final version of the report looks.
For the record—Ed Magedson is NOT one of the content monitors and, in fact, Ed does not have access to the system where changes to reports are made by the staff of monitors. This is why claims accusing Ed of creating or altering reports are so easy to disprove—he doesn’t even have access to make any changes! So much for all those bogus claims of Ed tampering with reports.
Other than these policies, we generally do not investigate reports for accuracy. Why not? Three simple reasons.
First, we’re not legally required to do so and since it would be unfair to only investigate some things but not other things, as a general rule we let both sides say whatever they wish and we leave it to our readers to decide which party to believe. Second, even if we wanted to, it would be virtually impossible for us to even attempt to investigate everything submitted to the site. As of mid-2010, the Ripoff Report has more than 600,000 unique reports, and millions of responses/rebuttals to the report with up to 1,000 new submissions every day. Given this massive volume of information, we cannot and do not verify or confirm everything that our users post to the site (which is equally true of comments posted on SEOmoz.org and many other sites). Third, if someone approaches us and claims to have “solid proof” that a report is false, we have no way of evaluating how reliable that “proof” really is. Maybe it’s 100% legit and maybe it’s 100% phony, but whatever it is, we have no way to tell the difference. So, we allow companies to post free rebuttals showing their proof to anyone viewing the report. If the proof is really so compelling, then posting it in a rebuttal should be sufficient to negate the report.
Ripoff Report Does NOT Alter Reports
Because courts have consistently held that the Ripoff Report is entitled to protection under the CDA as long as we don’t create or substantively alter reports, people who don’t like the law have come up with an obvious way around this outcome—just lie and say that Ed Magedson wrote or altered the report! Easy way around the CDA, right? Wrong.
Putting aside the fact that lying is illegal and unethical, this strategy doesn’t work for a very basic reason—if you make an allegation like this in court, you need admissible evidence to support your claim. Don’t have any evidence? Maybe that’s OK when launching a flame war on a blog, but in a real court of law, if you don’t have evidence, you don’t have a case.
Unfortunately, the “Anatomy of a Ripoff Report Lawsuit” article incorrectly suggests (in bold text, no less): “There is more than just speculation that Magedson was involved in altering reports.” To support this, SEOmoz offers the “sworn testimony” of someone named Dickson Woodard and implies he was a “former employee”. This almost makes it sound like Mr. Woodward was a former employee of Ripoff Report and that he had inside knowledge about Ed Magedson creating or changing reports. Sounds like pretty powerful evidence…or is it? Let’s do some fact-checking and see how accurate and reliable this “evidence” really is.
First of all, who is Dickson Woodard? Did he really work for Ripoff Report as the article implies?
ANSWER—NO, Dickson Woodard never worked for Ripoff Report. Very much to the contrary, as explained in a letter he sent to us, Mr. Woodard worked for a company called GW Equity. This company sued Ripoff Report based on material that Mr. Woodard posted on our site. Do you think that may have given Mr. Woodard any motivation to make statements that exonerated him and incriminated Ed Magedson?
Here’s another important fact (and one not explained in the article)—before GW Equity sued Ripoff Report, it sued Mr. Woodard in a separate case claiming that he was the author of several harsh posts about GW Equity on Ripoff Report. How did Mr. Woodward initially respond to the lawsuit against him? Well, he did what most people do when they’re caught in a jam—they blame someone else. Mr. Woodard (who represented himself without a lawyer) tried to avoid responsibility by blaming Ed Magedson, claiming that Ed “modified” his reports. That’s what most people assume is the testimony quoted in the SEOmoz article, but as explained in a minute, that’s not what Mr. Woodard was actually talking about.
What’s also interesting is something else the article never mentioned—Ripoff Report was not a party to the original case between GW Equity and Mr. Woodard. Not only were we completely unaware of the case (because we weren’t involved in it), we were not present at his deposition so we didn’t have any chance to cross-examine Mr. Woodard and ask him to explain exactly how he knew that Ed altered reports. For that reason, after GW Equity sued us, the court determined (in a ruling you can read here) that Mr. Woodard’s testimony was NOT admissible evidence in our case since we were not present during his first deposition. Because Mr. Woodard’s testimony about Ed changing reports was ruled inadmissible, and because there was no other admissible evidence to support that claim, we won the case. This same outcome has also occurred in every other case where people have tried to use Mr. Woodard’s testimony against us, so the take-away is obvious—Mr. Woodard’s testimony as quoted in the article entirely inadmissible and useless in any lawsuit against us.
As for what he was talking about when he said that Ed changed reports, Mr. Woodard later submitted a sworn declaration in another case (Whitney Information Network, Inc. v. Xcentric Ventures) explaining that his prior deposition testimony in the GW Equity lawsuit (the stuff quoted by SEOmoz) was taken out-of-context and that when he said that Ed changed reports, was only referring to material that Ed Magedson posts about companies in the Corporate Advocacy Program. Mr. Woodard’s declaration plainly states that he has no personal knowledge about Ed changing reports other than as part of the Corporate Advocacy Program. For that reason, as the courts held in both the Whitney and GW Equity cases, Mr. Woodard’s testimony does not show that Ripoff Report has lost immunity under the CDA or that Ed Magedson alters reports about non-CAP members.
In sum, SEOmoz may feel that Mr. Woodard’s testimony shows there’s “more than just speculation” that Ed Magedson alters reports on our site, but two different federal judges have reviewed and rejected that claim.
What Is The Corporate Advocacy Program?
Enough talk about lawsuits. Let’s turn to the one aspect of the Ripoff Report that has generated the most controversy—our Corporate Advocacy Program. What is the CAP program? Who is the program for? Who is the program NOT for? Is the program extortion?
Let’s say you run a business and for whatever reason, you find that you have one complaint from an unhappy customer about you on Ripoff Report. How can you deal with this? For starters, most of the time all you have to do is simply file a rebuttal explaining your side of the story. Rebuttals are 100% free and when done correctly, a rebuttal can actually serve as a powerful form of free advertising.
How can you create an effective rebuttal? Well, here’s a great example from a company called OvernightMattress.com. As you can see, the company used our free rebuttal option as an opportunity to explain that it was listening to its customers and changing the company policy that generated the complaint. Anyone who reads this rebuttal should feel comfortable doing business with a company that shows that level of concern for customer service (and by the way - Ripoff Report has no relationship of any kind with this company). Perhaps OvernightMattress.com would prefer to see the report disappear, but in the mean time they really did a great job showing the world that they do care about providing great customer service, and they did this without paying a dime to Ripoff Report and without incurring any legal fees or court costs suing us.
But what if instead of having one complaint, you have 100 or more? And what if you have tried to fix the issues that have caused these complaints to occur, but you’re still being slammed by unhappy customers posting complaints on our site or any of the other copycat sites? What other options exist to help you deal with this?
Although you always have the option of filing free rebuttals to each report (which many companies will do), Ripoff Report’s CAP program may be able to help. So, what is CAP and how does it work?
It’s really not that complicated. In a nutshell, the CAP is a customer-service program in which Ripoff Report is hired to help assist companies who need help dealing with out-of-control complaints by angry customers. We work with our members and their customers to address existing complaints, to help prevent future complaints, and to proactively resolve any new complaints that might arise. The CAP program never involves removing reports, so it’s only useful to companies who really understand that they can’t solve customer complaints by sweeping them under the carpet.
When a company joins our CAP program, they enter into a detailed written contract with us explaining everything that the program involves. The first thing that we do is to prepare an email (drafted jointly with the new CAP member) which is sent to everyone who has posted a report about that member. This email announces that the company has joined our program and as part of doing so, we explain that they have made a commitment to fixing any issues which caused the customer to be unhappy in the first place. Our email outlines this commitment and explains that any customers with unresolved issues will be contacted by the company to make things right with them. This can include offering full refunds if appropriate.
Next, with the written permission of the CAP member, we update all existing reports to reflect that the member has joined our program and has made a commitment to complete customer satisfaction. Of course, existing reports are never, ever removed, but we want to inform people about the CAP member’s actions so we add an introduction to each report which talks about the company and the positive steps they have already made and the ones they have promised to make in the future. After our introduction, the original complaint remains on the site without any changes.
After joining our program, we expect that by working with us and with their customers to fix the problems which caused complaints in the past, our CAP members should see a dramatic reduction in unhappy customers filing complaints in the future. However, in the event a future complaint is submitted to our site about a CAP member, we will immediately intervene to get the member and the customer in touch with each other to see if the complaint can be resolved to the customer’s satisfaction. If so, we will give the customer an opportunity to withdraw their complaint. If the matter is not resolved, the complaint will be posted. Furthermore, we also work to resolve disputes on behalf of CAP members even with customers who haven’t tried to file a complaint yet. For instance, if someone emails us and inquires about whether they should do business with a CAP member, we can respond and explain all of the steps that the member has made to fix past problems and ensure that they aren’t repeated in the future.
Now, what happens if a CAP member fails to keep their commitments? Do we just allow them to continue paying us to stay in the program? Absolutely not. Although most of our CAP members have always lived up to their promises and have experienced sustained long-term benefits from the program, that’s unfortunately not always the case. Recently, a company involved in our program was accused of engaging in various kinds of unlawful activities. Even though they have not been found guilty of any wrongdoing, we immediately suspended that member from the program until such time as the accusations against them could be heard in court. We are hopeful that the charges against the member will be resolved in their favor, but if they are not, we obviously would not agree to continue providing our endorsement to them or to any company that is found to have violated the law.
IV. IS THE CAP PROGRAM EXTORTION? DOES RICO APPLY?
One of most disappointing and grossly misleading parts of SEOmoz’s article is the suggestion that by operating the CAP program, Ripoff Report may be engaged in “extortion” and/or racketeering in violation of the federal RICO laws. While we admit that we don’t know much about the author’s work history and qualifications, because we have successfully defended numerous cases accusing us of these kinds of claims, we would like to explain the law to you in a little more detail.
So, what is extortion and how come no one has ever succeeded in proving that Ripoff Report is committing extortion? What about RICO? If these claims are so great, why hasn’t anyone won such a case in the two+ years since this article was written? After all, more than 30+ lawsuits have been filed against the Ripoff Report over the years, so you would think that if we were engaged in extortion and racketeering, at least one court would have exposed that by now, right? Does SEOmoz really know something that 30+ judges and 30+ groups of highly educated and aggressive plaintiff’s attorneys don’t know? We don’t think so, and here’s why.
The article provides an accurate textbook definition of extortion which is familiar to any first-year law student—making a threat to engage in unlawful conduct (usually force or fear of force) in order to get someone to hand over money. In a typical case, this might involve the bad guy threatening his victim by saying, “Give me your money, or I will burn your house down.” Burning down another person’s house is illegal, so threatening to commit that unlawful act in order to get money from someone is extortion. This is very basic common sense.
On the other hand, not every kind of threat is extortion. For instance, if you fail to pay your bills on time, you might get a letter from a collection agency threatening to shut off your phone, disconnect your power, or even repossess your car unless you pay. Are those threats extortion?
Of course not, and the reason why is pretty simple—extortion generally can’t be based on a “threat” unless the threat is unlawful. Stealing someone’s car is unlawful, but if you fail to make your car payment, your bank probably has a lawful contractual right to repossess your car. Because the bank’s threat to repo the car isn’t unlawful, the bank can make that threat in order to pressure to into making your payment, and doing so simply isn’t extortion. There are literally dozens of cases which explain this type of general principle in RICO/extortion cases, but here are just a few recent examples:
- Sosa v. DirectTV, Inc., 437 F.3d 923, 939 (9th Cir. 2006) (RICO/extortion claims could not be based on demand for money to resolve threatened litigation because “inducing fear of economic loss could not in itself constitute extortion…. The use of the fear must be ‘wrongful’.”)
- Rothman v. Vedder Park Mgmt., 912 F.2d 315, 318 (9th Cir. 1990) (explaining that landlord’s threat to raise rent as to any tenant who refused to agree to new rental terms was not extortion and could not support a RICO claim because raising rent was not unlawful)
- All Direct Travel Services, Inc. v. Delta Airlines, Inc., 120 Fed.Appx. 673, 2005 WL 23420 (9th Cir. 2005) (RICO/extortion claims could not be based on airline’s threat to fire employees unless they paid certain disputed debts because, “it is not extortion to threaten economic harm when you have a legal right to engage in the activity you threaten.”)
- Cintas Corp. v. United Here, 601 F.Supp.2d 571 (S.D.N.Y. 2009) (RICO/extortion claims dismissed against defendant who created website containing damaging information criticizing the plaintiff in an effort to pressure plaintiff to allow defendant to create labor union because, “When a party does not have the right to pursue its business interests unchecked and receives a benefit [from defendant’s conduct], it cannot be the victim of extortion.”)
- American Computer Trust Leasing v. Jack Farrell Implement Co., 763 F.Supp. 1472 (D.Minn. 1991) (RICO/extortion claims could not be made against software company which threatened to deactivate software used by plaintiff unless they were paid because the threat was not unlawful or wrongful)
If you apply these principles to Ripoff Report and the CAP program, it is obvious why the program does not constitute extortion—by virtue of offering CAP, Ripoff Report is providing a 100% legal service that benefits our members. Just like any other business, it is not illegal for us to request payment for our services, nor is it illegal for us to decline to provide services for free. A car dealer is under no obligation to fix your broken transmission for free (assuming your car is out-of-warranty), so it’s not extortion for a dealer to demand money to provide that service to you.
Based on this, on July 19, 2010, a federal judge in Los Angeles issued a detailed, 53-page ruling explaining that our Corporate Advocacy Program is not extortion under California law because: “The offer to help Plaintiffs restore their reputation and facilitate resolution with the complainants in exchange for a fee does not constitute a threat under California Penal Code § 519.”
The fact that our service may help people who have been targets of Internet defamation does not change this. Obviously, infecting someone else’s computer with a virus is illegal, but that doesn’t mean that companies who sell anti-virus software are committing extortion simply because they charge money to help protect their customers from these illegal actions. Offering goods and services is not illegal, so asking for money to provide such services is not extortion. Just like an anti-virus company which does not create viruses, we are not the authors of the offending content, and we do not accept money to remove offending content. All we do is offer a program (in addition to other free alternatives) which we believe is extremely useful and valuable to companies who need our help improving their customer service.
Despite the massive amount of legal authority that supports our position, the SEOmoz article mentions a case called Kattar and suggests based on that one case that “courts have already determined that taking money from a person in order to prevent him from being defamed is extortion.” This nice sound bite seems at first like it might apply to Ripoff Report, but does it really? No. Here’s why.
First of all, the defendant in the Kattar case made threats of physical violence in an effort to obtain $100,000 from the victim. Because threats of violence are always illegal, using such a threat to obtain money easily qualified as extortion. This doesn’t apply to Ripoff Report for obvious reasons. We don’t make any threats, whether violent or non-violent.
Second, although the facts are somewhat complicated, in Kattar the defendant also made a threat to invent phony and damaging information and to provide it to a third party unless the victim paid up. The court found this threat was also extortion because inventing false information in this manner was unlawful, so demanding money to refrain from doing so amounted to extortion.
The SEOmoz article suggests that Ripoff Report’s conduct is somehow equivalent to the defendant in Kattar, but this overlooks an important fact—in Kattar, the defendant was the one who threatened to create the phony information if he wasn’t paid. In other words, the defendant was the author of the damaging information, and the defendant was the one demanding money to keep his mouth shut. Creating false information is unlawful (in most instances), and so when a person demands money to refrain from creating lies about the victim, this unlawful threat can qualify as extortion.
Ripoff Report simply does not do what the defendant did in Kattar. We do not create false information—PERIOD. Likewise, we do not demand or accept money to remove anything from our site—PERIOD. Even when a company joins our CAP program, existing reports are never removed, so there is no basis to compare us to the defendant in Kattar. Using the example about burning down a house, it might be extortion to threaten to burn down someone’s house if they don’t pay you, but it is not extortion for a company to sell you a sprinkler system that will help to extinguish a fire that someone else set.
We have a lawful right to extend our help to people who ask for it, and we have a lawful right to refuse to remove material posted by third parties. Neither of these things are unlawful, so offering a paid program which helps companies to work with their customers doesn’t qualify as extortion, even if negative speech created by a third party plays a role in the exchange.
While you may disagree with this view, if you work in the SEO industry you should be glad that it’s incorrect to say: “The good news is that the courts have already determined taking money from a person in order to prevent him from being defamed is extortion.” Honestly—isn’t that exactly what SEO companies do? They take money from people who are targets of defamation in order to help hide the hurtful information. If SEOmoz’s view of the law was correct, any SEO company that did this would be guilty of extortion. In all fairness, this statement would be technically correct if the article added a little more information such as: “taking money from a person in order to prevent him from being defamed is extortion if the person demanding the money is also the person who threatened to create the defamatory information.”
The simple fact is that Ripoff Report is NOT engaged in extortion, and every court that has ever considered the merits of a case against us has agreed with that position.
OTHER REASONS WHY RICO DOESN’T APPLY TO RIPOFF REPORT
One of the most astonishing statements in the SEOmoz article was the following:
As noted above, SEOmoz’s article suggests that demanding money to prevent someone from being defamed is extortion, and therefore by extension the federal racketeering law (RICO) might be a helpful way for people to shut down Ripoff Report. Unfortunately, this legal analysis is entirely wrong.
Why? Because RICO claims cannot be based on a single act of extortion or any other crime. These claims (which are exceptionally technically complex) require much, much more than that. Like what?
For starters, by definition a RICO claim has four required elements: 1.) conduct 2.) of an enterprise 3.) through a pattern 4.) of racketeering activity. See 18 U.S.C. § 1962; Sun Savings and Loan Ass'n v. Dierdorff, 825 F.2d 187, 191 (9th Cir. 1987). The phrase ‘pattern of racketeering activity’ is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 1961 requiring “at least two acts of racketeering activity … .” Of course, there are more than two reports on our site, but this doesn’t mean that RICO applies. Here’s why.
RICO DOESN’T APPLY TO DEFAMATION CASES
So, what about damages from false and defamatory posts? Can you collect damages under RICO for harm to your reputation? SEOmoz thinks so, but this view is legally wrong.
Again, because RICO was created in order to combat organized crime such as the Mafia, it is not a law of wide application. Instead, the law only applies to certain specific wrongful acts listed in the statute, only when there is a pattern of such acts, and only when that pattern has directly caused certain kinds of damage. For starters, here’s exactly what RICO’s main section says: “Any person injured in his business or property by reason of a violation of section 1962 of this chapter may sue therefore in any appropriate United States district court and shall recover threefold the damages he sustains … .” 18 U.S.C. § 1964(c). That sounds pretty broad, right? If your business was harmed by a false post on Ripoff Report, surely you should be able to sue under RICO, right?
No, because courts have already held that damage to a person’s reputation (such as might be caused by a defamatory posting) is not one of the narrow kinds of damages covered by RICO. This was the precise holding in Padilla Rodriguez v. Llorens Quiñones, 813 F.Supp. 924 (D.Puerto Rico 1993) which involved a dispute between the plaintiff (a superior court judge) and the defendant (a local district attorney). According to the complaint, the defendant devised a plan to destroy the plaintiff’s reputation so he could take over the plaintiff’s judgeship. The plan included a variety of attacks including the publication of defamatory statements accusing the judge of being “corrupt” and engaging in wrongdoing. Based on these events, the defendants sued for numerous claims including both defamation and RICO/extortion.
The district court held that RICO’s statutory text limits a plaintiff’s recovery to harm to their “business or property”. Because the primary harm alleged by the plaintiff was reputational, the court found that any such damages could not be recovered under RICO:
In endeavoring to determine whether an injury to reputation is an injury to business or property under Section 1964(c), or, alternatively, is more akin to personal injury, it is essential to keep in mind RICO’s specific purpose to thwart the criminal invasion and acquisition of legitimate business enterprises and property. The plaintiffs in this case are alleging nothing remotely resembling such an invasion or acquisition. The damages which they claim are no more than injuries which flow from the negative articles published by the newspaper defendants. Primary among these alleged damages is the plaintiffs’ loss of reputation.
Padilla Rodriguez, 813 F.Supp. at 928 (emphasis added).
Because reputational harm is simply not within the scope of the RICO statute, the court concluded, “damages relating to injury to reputation are personal injuries not recoverable under RICO.” Id. (emphasis added). As noted in the Padilla Rodriguez case, other courts have reached similar results. See Grogan v. Platt, 835 F.2d 844, 846 (11th Cir. 1988) (holding Congress did not intend to allow recovery under RICO for personal injury damages arising from wrongful death, assault and battery, and negligence); Bennett v. Centerpoint Bank, 761 F.Supp. 908, 916 (D.N.H.), aff'd without op., 953 F.2d 634 (1st Cir. 1991) (finding fear for one’s personal safety after receiving a threatening telephone call is not an injury to business or property as required by Section 1964(c)); Zimmerman v. HBO Affiliate Group, 834 F.2d 1163, 1169–70 (3rd Cir. 1987) (damages for emotional distress are not recoverable under RICO).
Put simply, if someone posts false information about you on the Ripoff Report, you can always file a lawsuit against the author and you can recover any and all damages the court awards you. However, damage to a person’s reputation is not actionable under the federal RICO statute, and such claims have consistently been dismissed in lawsuits against us. Unless SEOmoz is willing to pay your legal fees (plus the fees you would have to pay to Ripoff Report once you lose your case), we strongly caution everyone to seek an independent legal opinion from a RICO-qualified attorney before you assert such claims against us or against anyone else.
V. ANATOMY OF A REAL RIPOFF REPORT LAWSUIT
This might be surprising, but before the article was published do you know how many times SEOmoz contacted Ripoff Report for input on the article about how Ripoff Report lawsuits work? How about this—ZERO. Despite suggesting that the real goal was to help readers “dig into the issues,” prior to publishing the article the author never bothered to contact us and never bothered to ask us for any input or response to help her gain a better understanding about how Ripoff Report lawsuits work in the real world. Why not? Why would a person claim to be writing an investigatory article about a company’s litigation history and then fail to make any effort to contact the company or give an opportunity to respond before the article was published?
Since we do not believe the article accurately describes how a REAL lawsuit against Ripoff Report works, we’ll cover that briefly. We also want to explain the serious legal and financial consequences of bringing a lawsuit against Ripoff Report, so we will offer some insight into those points. We also want to set the record straight as to some of the additional factual errors contained in the article.
Let’s get started!
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SUE RIPOFF REPORT?
This is a pretty broad question, so we’ll respond somewhat generally. There are really only two main types of lawsuits brought against the Ripoff Report: 1.) Lawsuits that do NOT accuse us of creating the offending report, and 2.) Lawsuits which DO accuse us of creating the report.
Several years ago, the first type was the most common—we were frequently sued simply for acting as the “publisher” of a report written by someone else. In our experience, most people named in a Ripoff Report know exactly who the author is, and in the past, plaintiffs were pretty honest in their lawsuits against us. Thus, plaintiffs would sue us claiming that a false report written by ‘Dan Defendant’ (as an example) was posted on Ripoff Report, and the Complaint would allege that we were liable for republishing Dan’s post even if we did nothing to create or alter the report.
When a Complaint makes such a claim, courts will routinely dismiss them immediately because the CDA bars any liability for republication of material that a website did not create. One basic example of this was a federal case filed in Arizona called Global Royalties, Ltd. v. Xcentric Ventures, LLC, 2007 WL 2949002 (D.Ariz. 2007). In this case, the plaintiff was honest and did not accuse Ripoff Report of creating any part of the offensive post. Rather, the plaintiff knew exactly who the author was, and they had no reason to believe and no evidence to show that Ripoff Report had any involvement in creating or changing this report. Because the plaintiff was honest and did not accuse us of creating the report, the case was immediately dismissed for failure to state a claim based on the court’s determination that we were protected by the CDA.
After winning cases like this for several years, plaintiffs who were unhappy with the outcome decided to change their tactics and do what SEOmoz recommends: “if you’re going to sue RipOff Report, it is very important to allege that the website created and/or substantially altered the meaning of the content.” Making that allegation in a Complaint changes the case in a significant way—regardless of whether the allegations are true, a court faced with a motion to dismiss is required to assume the facts in the Complaint are true even if they’re not. So, when a plaintiff files a Complaint accusing us of creating or altering content, this generally means the case cannot be dismissed as quickly or easily as it would without such an allegation.
While that may sound great to enemies of the Ripoff Report, there’s a BIG problem with this strategy—it’s blatantly illegal and unethical to make false claims in a lawsuit, and as we explain in the next section, doing so will almost certainly get you and your lawyer into very, very big trouble. Moreover, as we said before, without admissible evidence to support your claim, it will only take about 60–90 days for the court to grant summary judgment in favor of Ripoff Report in most cases.
Put simply, if you believe that making false allegations against the Ripoff Report is going to help you prevail or help you to get revenge on us by dragging us into a long and expensive lawsuit, we’re sorry to tell you but that’s just not the case. If you accuse Ripoff Report or Ed Magedson of creating or changing content without evidence to support your claims, not only are you going to lose your case, at minimum you’re going to end up paying Ripoff Report’s costs and attorney’s fees.
VI. ANATOMY OF A RIPOFF REPORT COUNTERCLAIM
So let’s say you hate the CDA and want to take revenge on Ripoff Report by bringing a lawsuit accusing Ed Magedson of creating a report or a title about you even though you know that’s not the case. Because you won’t be able to prove your claims, the court will enter summary judgment against you. This is what happened in Whitney Information Network, Inc. v. Xcentric Ventures, LLC, 2008 WL 450095 (M.D.Fla. 2008). But what happens next? Do you simply get to walk away? No.
As we stated above, misusing the courts by pursuing a claim that you know is groundless is illegal and may subject both the plaintiff and his/her attorney to civil liability under Section 674 of the Restatement (Second) of Torts. What does this mean? Simple—if you bring a groundless lawsuit against Ripoff Report and lose, you can be sued in a new lawsuit filed in Arizona and you can be forced to pay all of Ripoff Report’s attorney’s fees and costs, plus any other damages caused by your actions. What sort of numbers are we talking about? While they will always vary based on the length and facts of the case, attorney’s fees in excess of $100,000 or more are certainly not uncommon.
Although this may sound harsh, Ripoff Report is unwilling to tolerate anyone who ignores the law or uses the court system as a weapon to file bogus lawsuits. For that reason, after the court granted summary judgment in our favor the lawsuit filed against us in Florida by Whitney Information Network, we took the extraordinary step of filing our own lawsuit against Whitney and its lawyers here in Arizona. A copy of the Complaint we filed in that case can be viewed here.
Word to the wise—if you bring a lawsuit against us which contains allegations that you know are false, you should be prepared to not only lose that case, but also to face a new lawsuit filed against you here in Arizona.
VII. HOW TO RESPOND TO A RIPOFF REPORT
So if you’re still reading at this point, you may be asking yourself—well, if I can’t sue Ripoff Report, what CAN I do to respond to a negative report about me? The honest answer is PLENTY! You have numerous options available to you, and if you follow a few simple steps, you should easily be able to reduce if not eliminate the effects of a negative Ripoff Report without having to spend a dime.
Here are just a few suggestions for anyone dealing with a negative post on our site—
TIP #1—Stay Calm
That’s easy for us to say, but trust us—after more than a decade of experience in both running the Ripoff Report and having more than our share of criticism, we understand that it’s human nature to be very upset when you see a negative online posting calling your business a ‘scam’ or accusing you of something you didn’t do. We don’t like people bashing us and we know how upset people can get when an anonymous poster threatens their economic livelihood.
Nevertheless, the #1 most important advice we can give you is this—don’t make any decisions when you’re upset. Wait until you’ve calmed down before making any decisions about what to do.
TIP #2—Get Good Advice
If you are the victim of a derogatory Internet post (whether on our site or somewhere else), you should immediately try to get advice from a local attorney who has knowledge and experience dealing with similar cases. This is especially true if the post is causing real, significant economic loss to you or your business. As we explained above, the CDA has no impact at all on your right to sue the author of any false Internet posting, but the law usually provides relatively short time limits to do so (often one year from the date of publication, regardless of when you learned of the posting). In addition, if a posting has been made anonymously finding an author may require sending subpoenas to third party ISPs who may not keep information for very long, so time is truly of the essence.
Unfortunately, Ripoff Report cannot simply hand over anonymous author information upon request, but if you have a legitimate claim we will be happy to help you get this information as promptly as possible. In fact, we have created a section on our site explaining exactly what you need to do in order to get author information from us.
If you don’t know a local attorney, we strongly recommend that you call the state bar in the state where you are located and ask if they have a lawyer referral service. Many times, these services can direct you to a local attorney who can meet with you for a reduced fee and give you advice on your options, but again, please make sure the person you meet with is knowledgeable and experienced in dealing with online defamation cases. This area of law has many unique rules that not all lawyers are familiar with, so you need to find someone who has handled previous Internet cases.
TIP #3—Always File a Rebuttal
It’s a common misconception that the WORST thing you can do in response to a report is to file a rebuttal. People spreading this myth seem to believe that rebuttals cause reports to appear higher in Google’s search results than they otherwise would, but we have never seen any evidence that would support that claim. On the contrary, even when a report has no rebuttals, it will often appear on the first page of Google, so leaving the complaint unanswered is generally a bad idea.
In our view, failing to post a rebuttal is really one of the biggest mistakes you can make. Regardless of how true or false a report may be, when you leave it unanswered you guarantee that anyone who finds the report will only hear half the story. Unless you agree with every word in a report, we think that filing a rebuttal is the BEST thing you can do, and it won’t cost you a dime. We already suggested you review this great example from a company called OvernightMattress.com, but just in case here are some additional suggestions for what makes a good rebuttal:
- Say sorry! No matter how much you disagree with what the author has written, it’s almost always better to begin with an apology. This defuses the situation and it shows you are concerned without making you look defensive. Even if you don’t believe in the saying “The Customer Is Always Right”, you should always assume that if someone took the time to complain about you, they’re probably looking for someone to say sorry to them…SO SAY IT!
- Offer to immediately fix the author’s complaint. This is a no-brainer, but it is something that many people overlook. If someone has written a legitimate complaint about you, then your best bet isn’t to hide the complaint. Rather, you should use that as an opportunity to shine. How? Easy—by offering to do whatever it takes to make the customer happy. If the complaint isn’t legitimate, you can always explain your side of the story, but in most cases, this may not help to impress other customers. NOTE: if a complaint is simply fake and wasn’t written by a real customer, there’s not much you can do to please the author, but by the same token your offer of a full refund or some additional remedy will make you look good but won’t cost you a dime since the fake author will never take you up on the offer.
- Provide positive info about your company. Again, no matter whether a report is true or false, because a Ripoff Report can appear on the first few pages of Google, a complaint about your company may be seen by lots of people. That being the case, why not use it as a free advertisement for your company? Your rebuttal can contain testimonials from satisfied customers, information about awards you have won, or other positive information that will draw customers to your door. What not get creative and say something like this: “We’re sorry that we had an unhappy customer write a complaint about us, but in order to prove that we’re a great company, we will offer 25% off any purchase if you print this page and bring it in—just tell us you saw us on the Ripoff Report!” This may seem a little unusual at first, but why not try it? What do you have to lose?
- Ask your happy customers to post rebuttals praising you. Another no-brainer. One of the most effective strategies we ever saw was a doctor who was criticized in a report. Rather than getting mad, the doctor told his patients about the report and asked them to post rebuttals sharing their opinions about him. Around 40+ rebuttals were filed by happy patients praising the doctor and giving him glowing reviews. No lawsuit was filed and the doctor never paid us a dime. Problem solved!
- Provide contact information so people can find you. If you’re going to write a rebuttal, we always suggest that you include your real name, phone number, and email address so that people can reach you if they need more information. Many people seem to use anonymous rebuttals, but in our experience it’s much more effective to put a name and a face on your business so that customers will feel safer trusting you with their business.
TIP #4—Be Cautious With Paid SEO Services
If you have been named in a Ripoff Report, you may receive solicitations from “report removal” services offering to help “restore your reputation”—in exchange for a fee. Some people incorrectly assume these emails have been sent by Ed Magedson or someone else associated with Ripoff Report. To be clear—Ripoff Report NEVER sends out emails soliciting anyone to pay money for report removal similar services.
These emails are usually sent by people offering SEO (search engine optimization) services. The general idea is that if you pay their fees, they will create lots of web pages and other material which will appear higher on Google than the Ripoff Report. Thus, the report on our site won’t be removed, but it will be bumped down so far on Google that most people won’t find it.
It is important that you do your homework and make sure the company you work with is reputable, and is able to provide the promised services. Make sure you know what you are getting into. For instance, ask if the results will continue after you are no longer making monthly payments, or if the results are only temporary. We have heard lots and lots of stories from people who paid hundreds or thousands of dollars to SEO companies only to find the results were temporary or otherwise ineffective, so please use caution when considering this option.
TIP #5—Get Super-Creative
We’re constantly on the lookout for people who have come up with useful suggestions for responding to reports and we want to give credit to one of the best examples we’ve seen: https://editweapon.com/rebuild-online-reputation/ As explained on this page, a company who was listed on Ripoff Report and other sites found that Google was adding the words “scam” and “complaints” as part of its auto-suggest feature.
FULL DISCLOSURE—this company did join our Corporate Advocacy Program, but they went even further than that. They actually purchased a domain name with the word “scam” following their name and they used it to create a page explaining why they were NOT a scam. Within just a few weeks, their “not a scam” website was ranked 7th on Google.
Now this process might not be right for every situation, but clearly you don’t need to join CAP in order to learn from this example. If someone has posted negative information about your business, it’s always a good idea to strike back with your own website(s) explaining your side of the story.
TIP #6—Consider Using Ripoff Report’s Arbitration Program
As a final suggestion, we want to explain that in response to demand for more options and solutions, we have recently created a new arbitration program which allows anyone to dispute the accuracy of a report in a fast, easy, and relatively inexpensive process. Our new program was modeled after the Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy, and it allows anyone named in a report to have the matter reviewed by an independent arbitrator who has contracted with Ripoff Report to provide this service.
How does the process work? In short, if you want to dispute a report you can file a short complaint with us identifying the report and explaining your side of the story. You will also need to provide evidence supporting your position. Once we receive the required information, we will forward this to the author who will have an opportunity to submit a response.
All materials are then reviewed by an independent third party arbitrator who will make a decision as to whether the report is accurate or not (one of our arbitrators is a retired judge from the Arizona Court of Appeals). Ripoff Report plays no role in the decision, and we will agree to honor the arbitrator’s decision. So what happens if a statement in a report is determined to be false? We will redact that statement from the report and post a copy of the arbitrator’s ruling showing that the dispute has been resolved in your favor.
What does this cost and how long does it take? Currently, the fee is $2,000 which covers the fees charged by the arbitrator and additional administrative expenses. In most cases, we expect that the arbitration process will take about 30 days from start to finish, depending on the availability of the arbitrator. Compare that with the average cost of a lawsuit (which can easily exceed $100,000) and the average time for a case to get to trial (which can be 1-2 years, not counting appeals).
How can you get more information about the program? Just send us an email at: [email protected] and we’ll send you the program rules, agreement, and the forms you need to complete the process.
VIII. CONCLUSION
As we said at the beginning of this rebuttal, Ripoff Report knows that many people out there are angry at us. We know that many of you don’t agree with our policies. We understand that some people even feel we’re operating outside the law. We hear those complaints loud and clear.
Rest assured, we’re constantly striving to listen to our critics, to adjust our practices when appropriate, and to do everything we can to stay within the bounds of the law while still giving our users a powerful forum to share their thoughts with the world. For the most part, we think many of the negative opinions about us are based on the rumors, lies, and half-truths being spread by crooked companies who are trying to trick people into thinking that Ripoff Report is evil. Don’t be fooled, and don’t believe everything you read online—even if it’s posted on our site.
Now that you have heard our side of the story, if you still disagree with what Ripoff Report does, we understand and respect that. Even if you still feel that Ripoff Report should be shut down, we hope this rebuttal has helped you to understand the drastic impact that changing the law would have on everyone’s right to free speech. Like the Internet itself, Ripoff Report is always evolving and changing, and we hope that in time, even our critics will understand the important role we play in fostering and promoting freedom of speech.
Sarah and all,
We find your posting column and information here to be very useful. Here is our short version of complaint, strategy and readiness to file against Mr.RipOffReport. End of last year we have approached RipOffReport to request removal of a false and slanderous remark as well as untrue comments. We find ourselves got stuck in a pond of garbage. For your information, our firm has been around for over 10 years and annual revenue gross over 5 Billion. Never once had any complaint by any customers that we did not resolve!! Our records are spotless and we are proud to stand behind our brand name. What is unique about this particular negative comment (and the only negative comment on the net) is the comment made by a friend of ex-customer. Who is not authorized on the account, nor did she provide any authorization from the ex-customer to speak on behalf of her. Sadly, we have provided evidence to RipOffReport to clear our name and state our position. We were rejected provided with an odd explanation from Mr. RipOffReport that is unlike any professional would act or say. Going through this experience we have learned that the owner of this particular site can be classified as to be a non-professional and someone who speaks and act like a street thug. Highly and most likely, someone we would love to challenge.
In his defense Mr. RipOffReport immediately forwarded us his ex-case findings provided with warnings as well as consequences in suing him and his firm. We found that action is rather amusing and we smell a trail of blood. Fear + Defensive = Weakness. At the end of our conversation, we have promised RipOffReport that we shall allocate three of our in-house counsels to review all past and pending cases as to strategize our defense against Mr. RipOffReport. We promised a lawsuit to Mr.RipOffReport and ended our conversation there.
From that period until now, while preparing for other cases we have had few lunches with several judges. In February, this discussion with issues of Law in governs IP, CDA & RICO Act and argument was discussed among and between those during our luncheon of 14. Needless to say, we were given few exciting moment as to understand how to position with our argument as well as patching the legal loop in our defense against Mr. RipOffReport. We are most sure and certain his counsel or “Mr. RipOffReport” will ask the court to throw out the complaint immediately. Mr. RipOffReport will have a surprise. What Mr. RipOffReport don’t know is our law record has been challenged over 68 times in 10 years period and never once we have lost any battle of our choice. Sara, sorry no settlement here. What we do not believe is “settlement” when we file complaint. We go after assets or to bleed defendant out of pocket on cost no less than 100,000 – 250,000 as minimum to max over 3 million in legal fees. In this particular case without giving out too much of our strategy, Today, we have hired an investigation firm to seek all Mr. RipOffReport’s asset by large. I am sure the rest of you know where we are getting at. You don’t prepare a battle without understanding your opponent’s wallet size and asset holdings; no asset will not discourage us; we shall file additional injunction.
Lastly, we are also preparing a class action in conjunction to our suit. I hope our story will give the rest of you a hope. Wish you all the best and if we are right, we will create a path for rest of you.
Can you hear me hollering over hear? I want to be sure that you remember me when you get the class action rolling. If you need a lead, I would love that, if you are not already the lead. I agree with every thing you have said, every single detail.
Pride, self indulgence and narcisism are part of the downfall. Plus, greed and just being a criminal. A long time ago, he could have had what he may have wanted if he would have played by some type of rule. He appears to have decided to let people get screwed, let people screw people and not consider information when it was provided to him. I know some similar sites who will take information when provided and act on it, and also who have had common sense when they see or smell something wrong with a report, they will remove it. No one has to ask them. But, seems like our boy has had prior employees admit to creating reports, so, he has some troubles.
If a person puts a report on that site and regrets it, they ought to be able to remove it. End of story. Especially if it is a personal one.
I want to be with you. Thank you, thank you.
The Amazing IPLaw!
Amen.
Please keep us updated in this thread.
More will come and ROR will fall.
ROR WILL FALL!
Hello IP Law,
I am being personally attacked on the rippor web site by an anonymous user. It is plain slender. How can I contact your law fiem to represent me? my e-mail is [email protected]
In celebration of The Communications Decency Act I'd just like to say the following: I think the folks at RipOff Report are a bunch filthy wankers.
j/k!
No need for the j/k!
Yeah, you're right, but when about to click "Add Comment" I had a vision of my company name on the front page of RipOffReport.com. . .I admit it was an irrational fear.
"...involving the criminal underbelly of the Church of Scientology, but it’s surprisingly on point."
No doubt, you're referring to Suri Cruise, the Satanic Spawn of L. Ron Hubbard. Just FYI - she's no longer underbelly.
Okay, that was both a lame and pathetic attempt at levity and a validation of your comment:
"SEOmoz is not responsible for your comments. (phew!)"
However, that does beg the question - Am I responsible for my own comments on boards such as this? If so, are there any blackhats out there that can recommend a good Automated Alias Generation Script? I've got some tracks to cover!
BTW - Absolutely astounding post. Legal Mondays has become a top favorite weekly.
Thanks for the comment seanmag!
And yes, we're all personally responsible for what we say online. But I don't think you have anything to worry about!
Best Regards,
Sarah
Here we are about to start the new year. I would like to wish you Sarah and all your subscribers a Happy New Year.
People like yourself who try to make a difference are few. Ed Magedson is responsible for a huge loss of business for my company since 2003. He is responsible for my and my company's reputation being comprimised and my good name being tarnished for as long as he will be allowed to perpetrate his extortion scam. Indeed, after my competition decided to slander and defame my company and myself on his site and the easy background check site which he is a partner with, Magedson offered me the removal of the defamation for $50,000 down and $5,000 a month. I refused to pay.
I have been explaining all this time, to potential clients that I am not a "drug addict"or "a child molestor" and am not organizing "tranvestite or gay parades" in my area. Although that last part might be fun!
I resent the harm which has been done to my company, my employees, my graduates and myself for all these years.
Thank you for your help.
Helene Goldnadel www.ezripofflawsuit.com
Hello Helene,
Your site is intereesting and I commend you for paying for a sponsered link on the search engines. (you might want to double check you links).
There is talk of a class action against Ripoff Report, what do you think of this? Can you head up something like this?
You can spend all the time you want blogging and complaining about Ed Magedson, but the point is that he will never stop unless he is sued and there is an order for the website to be removed, or the very least, the complaints pertaining to the plantiffs of the lawsuit be removed permanently. This is possible, but it will require a class action suite with hundreds, if not thousands of plantiffs. However this will not be a convential class action lawsuit, because Ed Magedson is not someone who has recoverable funds. There will be no damages received by plantiffs even if a judgement is attained. He already has judgements against him. So any lawyer who takes on the case will want a retainer. Since there are so many plantiffs the retainer will be small, approximately $1000 per plantiff. Isn't it worth $1000 to get this site removed? Heck, Ed will charge you at least that to give you his bogus "good standing." Ed has the site and he has the search engines but we have the numbers and we can gang up on him in a class action. We need to pool our resources, put up $1000 each and get this started. I would like to hear back from those who would tentatively agree to do such a thing? Who wants to go after Ripoff Report, who will put up a small fee to make it happen?
Hi Sarno49x
I just saw your response after all this time. Since you just posted this a month ago, I will let you know that I have spent thousands and thousands of dollars in attorneys' fees, detectives etc... Tying to locate magedson to sue him and understanding the Communication Decency joke, ten I looked and paid through the nose for optimization. Nothing worked so far. Even changing my company name only gave me two good years and the extortionist recently caught up with me and his defamation linked lurked up again on google.
Would I pay a thousand dollars to get rid of ripoffreport.com? Ha ha ha ahaha aha ! I probably spent 100 grand to date, throughout the years, hoping, fighting, hiring optimization companies etc... You see, the problem is that magedson spends a lot of his awaken time getting his defamation links about me and my business to rank up on google, because I was one of the first ones to put up a site.
Didn't even do it to go after the scumbag, I did it to try and protect my reputation and my business's, the best I could.
So yes, I would spend a grand. Are you kidding me? I would spend 10 grand. Class action plaintiffs, count me in!
Thanks,
Helene
The problem is Helene that we need to know who is taking the thousand bucks, that we have a reputable firm that is not hiding behind an email address asking for our information, all the stuff that we have to possibly take Ed and Google down. That is all that I have seen to date.
If there were a credible attorney out there who created contact with interested parties, gave us a way to make sure he is the real deal, check his back ground, license, etc., I think a lot of ppl would feel like you do. As of right now, nothing like that has happened.
Just fluff. Me personally, I did not have the money to try to fight and if I did participate in this battle, I would have to find the money.
Also, my understanding of class actions is that no money comes up front. If Google were to be part of this action, they do have very deep pockets. So, a really smart attorney would want to tie this together, as I think that is very much part and parcel of this whole thing. I would hesitate at an attorney who would want money up front for a class action. I do understand that Ed may not have a pot to piss in, but he just may have one as well. What do any of us REALLY know? Regardless of that, we know that Google has one.
I have spoken to at least two different lawyers who would take a case against ripoff report structured in such a manner. One suggested that he wanted no more then 100 plantiffs as any more would be too difficult to manage. Another stated that he would need someone to coordinate and manage the lawsuit. Lets keep looking. Ed is in Arizona, anyone in Arizona want a big case? Lets have a show of hands of people who want to sue ROR, also, perhaps a facebook page would be a good way to find people. I know the information about me is false and has cost me money. So lets here from an attorney who wants the case.
I have spoken to at least two different lawyers who would take a case against ripoff report structured in such a manner. One suggested that he wanted no more then 100 plantiffs as any more would be too difficult to manage. Another stated that he would need someone to coordinate and manage the lawsuit. Lets keep looking. Ed is in Arizona, anyone in Arizona want a big case? Lets have a show of hands of people who want to sue ROR, also, perhaps a facebook page would be a good way to find people. I know the information about me is false and has cost me money. So lets here from an attorney who wants the case.
Count me in.
Thank you Sarah. You're ability to synthesize a clear and compelling message is uncanny.
This company is a serious scam shop to say the least.
To those of you that have read the article, you would be doing consumers a favor by SPHINNING this story and helping to keep the truth of Ripoff Report at the top of the SERPs. Please take a minute to do so.
This company preys on both businesses and consumers through its aggressive extortionist tactics; all in the name of consumer advocacy.
Yeah, I am going to go out on a llimb here and say that allthough you are responsible for what you say on the internet, someone still has to prove it was you. From the standpoint of a web application that becomes extremely difficult. It would basically fall to whether we hold a person liable for losing their password or getting hacked. Cause really unless you run a full on packet trace, which even then is going to be hard, you have no clue where anything is coming from.
ATTENTION: NOTICE of Imminent Criminal complaint and nationwide solicitation on a Class Action law suit against ROR and GOOGLEHELP to bring down ROR-Google in a class action lawsuit, if you or your company have the next: 1.- Knows the identity of your ROR author. 2.- Been subject of extortion by same author, before date on report.3.- Witness list 4.- Proof of Ed Magedson acknowledge of your complaint.5.- Proof of Google acknowledge of your complaint.Contact us immediately at [email protected]ATTENTION SEO experts: If you have knowledge or suspect of:1.- GOOGLE rank manipulation by keeping damaging RORs far away from their premier advertisers.2.- Proof of ROR's SEO tactics violations on Google's terms of service.3.- Compile AdWords’ click fraud complaints, to make Google open its AdWords records to third-party auditing and establish a formal process for click fraud complaints.4.- Compile Google’s deception complaints in selling AdSense keyword ads.Contact us immediately at [email protected]
Hello to you and to all who are interested,
I have responded to this personally from a blog that I have asking for the name of this firm as the web site that they provided in my blog is invalid, and they are not responding.
Again, I would very much like to respond and participate in something of this nature but I would caution anyone from responding to this until you know who this party is. They have not been forthcoming to me in a personal email.
puelbla8, as we are all aware that the "other side" would love to know who we are, the other side would love to get the names and information of the group that would be interested in participating in a class action against Google and ROR, it would benefit us greatly for you to post who you are. That would be the responsible thing for you to do.
Friends in arms, I would caution you against providing your information until you know who this is. Sorry. They would not tell me who they were.
Hi Smitty: We are GoogleRORinJAil ... I will send you our information and our attorney's information via email, I will not post any of our information here, since that will increase the ranking of our ROR in Google, by you and many searching for that report, and we just recently got our ROR sent far on the 4-6 page, although in other computers (same city, and another one in another state) it shows in the First page still, so we are investigating why is that. (Google manipulation perhaps?)
Anyway, I hope that explain why we will not post our Identity here, besides that, we thought you were one of the "other side" LoL, seriously we just need to be very careful with this, I hope you understand. So here again is important that the people replying for the Class Action LS. Must have some kind of proof of the original writer of the ROR, it could be an email, a witness, a phone message, etc. In addition, you must send RoR and Google a complaint letter, explaining the extortion by that writer. Then keep copies to add to the LS. Here it is the guidelines:
ATTENTION: NOTICE of Imminent Criminal complaint and nationwide solicitation on a Class Action lawsuit against ROR and GOOGLEHELP to bring down ROR-Google in a class action lawsuit, if you or your company has the next:
Contact us immediately at [email protected] ATTENTION SEO experts: If you have knowledge or suspect of:
Contact us immediately at [email protected]
Wooooooo. Hooooooooo. It's great when you get someone who actually knows what they're talking about writing about this stuff... ;)
Agreed, it's nice to know this isn't coming from a nobody.
[Pssst. Hey mom! They think I'm somebody!!]
; )
oh and I had to blog about it at SEW too
https://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/080121-210330
That was the best post I have read on this blog and that is saying something...
Thank you
THIS IS A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:
Sphinn this story
Good to see that Marketing Pilgrim, SEOmoz and 97th Floor are currently ranking on the first page of Google (7, 9 & 10 respectively), for "Ripoff Report".
I suspect this column will be ranking for Ripoff report soon as well. Good job Sarah and hats off (or should I say whitehats on), to Rand for bringing the 97th floor article to a larger audience and to Sarah for continuing the charge!
This is SEO Best Practice - at its best!
As far as this article being accurate, yes, virtually everything she has explained is correct.
Our law firm, Dozier Internet Law, has represented some of the plaintiffs, either as lead or co-counsel, in the cases cited.
We have also represented many, many clients in asserting claims against RipOffReport, and many are resolved through negotiation. But, the day will surely come when one of the filed cases comes to trial and a significant monetary judgment and injunction is entered. Then the site will be gone for good, in all likelihood, or at least put at serious peril here in the US. Whether the owners take the site overseas to a country with which the US is not "in favor" and then try to hide behind the barriers of international law is another issue.
In the meantime, those without the means to pursue a lawsuit, which is extremely expensive, can be well served by embracing high quality SEO services and related reputation management tactics.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of other such sites out there, but they are just not quite as prominent, and their financial expectations for "internal reputation remediation" are not in the tens of thousands of dollars each month range, so they fly under the radar.
Well done, Sarah.
Thanks for your input and I'm sure the entire SEOmoz community would like to hear more about your experiences 'in the field' on future posts. Very best regards,
Sarah
My company has been victimized by Ripoff Report as well. A particularly viscious and underhanded competitor made fraudulent posts on the site. In fact in one case he took the name of a client who appears on my site giving a positive testimonial, then used that name to file a post on ripoff report. The client himself put up the rebuttal. But as everyone knows the rebuttals are difficult to find and after reading sometimes all a potential customer has to see is the negative post to click off and make a decision to not buy for your company. Ripoff Report is ruining a lot of good business.I have been around for over 20 years and have a triple A rating with the BBB.
I Here are my questions:
1. In my case the person whose name appeared on the report filed the rebuttal, he also contacted ROR and invited them to contact him and was willing to provide any proof necessary to demonstrate that he did not file the posting. In this case ROR has now been informed that the report is fraudulent. Is ROR obligated to investigate this? IF ROR is posting a complaint that is proven to be false, do they lose the protection of the law? Has there been any orders where by Ripoff Report has to disclose the email or IP address used to post the negative comment? Such information could he helpful in proving certain postings are false.
2. Why isn't there a firm in the United States pursuing a class action against ROR? The law suits are going away because the plantiffs are running out of money. I spoke to one plantiff who spent $300,000 suing ROR. Most companies cannot afford that. But a class action solves that problem. Can Google be named in a such a suit as well?
Counselor,
With some many victims and such flagrant disregard for the law, how can ROR continue and how is Google avoiding responsibility in the matter for maintaining a high ranking for the site. I am sure Google is a big enough fish for a class action suit and frankly ROR would be nothing without its Google ranking. The victims would be easy to find as their companies are named in the complaints. I cannot understand why no law firm has pursued such an action against ROR and Google. I am sure many of the victims would be willing to pony up a retainer to have this site removed for good.
IF ROR has indisputable knowledge that a complaint is fraudulent, that is, not filed by real customer, and keeps it on the site, is it still protected by the law?
You're all looking at this the wrong way. Don't worry about the Communications Decency Act which absolves them of responsibility for user generated comments. Worry about what they DO control.
Defamation, and in this case libel, is present, but it's not only in ROR's legally protected user generateed postings. It's also in the structure of their title tags, which on the search results is the most prominent piece of information (both in text size AND order of listing).
The name of their website implies fraudulent activity...a "rip off", if you will. They use auto generated URL's, so there is no printed association with the business there. Their title tags, however, which they have control over, HAVE TO NAME THE BUSINESS OR IT WON'T RANK.
In short, they are committing defamation by using the name of the business in conjunction with the name of their site in the title tag. It's no different than if I started a site called www.rapespuppies.com and used a title tag structure of (business name here) Rapes Puppies. It's obvious that regardless of my stated intentions, the damage is done as a result of something I had complete control over.
If you want to go class action, do it on the title tags. They will either have to change the name of the site to something non-libelous (which they won't do) or remove the target business' name from the tags (in which case they won't rank).
They certainly can't argue that placing a business' name next to the words "Rip Off", (whether merited or not and for all the world to see) isn't damaging. You might need intent to win monetary damages, but you don't need intent to get the desired result, which is to put ROR out of commission - and this is the way to do it.
Thanks Jack
Michelle
Last evening I was gong through Google's site and came across their Philosopy page and the "Ten Things Google Has Found To Be True" Of these ten, number's four and six stuck out to me like blaring lights:
4. Democracy on the web works.
Google works because it relies on the millions of individuals posting websites to determine which other sites offer content of value. Instead of relying on a group of editors or solely on the frequency with which certain terms appear, Google ranks every web page using a breakthrough technique called PageRank™. PageRank evaluates all of the sites linking to a web page and assigns them a value, based in part on the sites linking to them. By analyzing the full structure of the web, Google is able to determine which sites have been "voted" the best sources of information by those most interested in the information they offer. This technique actually improves as the web gets bigger, as each new site is another point of information and another vote to be counted.
It appears that somehow whatever site gets the most hits must be the one most people want to see. It appears to me also that the site that grows the fastest must fall into this royal status of most wanted. Therefore, Ed keeps all reports, rebuttals and comments to build his site, to keep us going back and worrying over all the shit on there that is not true regarding our businesses and selves. He does not care if we spend a lot of money. I would venture to say that the men that started Google would have a different take on this that the coporaton that runs it today. All of this falls into the same place. All the big fish are circling the smaller until they hope to be eaten and walk away rich. What eludes Ed is that he is selling poison. He could walk away rich were he to have any regard to human lives, psyches or hearts. Then he may would be creating a company that big brother would want to have. All the controversory without resolution, all the barking back at the hands that feed him, "Sue me, see if I care" may make him feel high, but it, in turn, will keep those that would want to be part of what he is trying to created, that will eventually make him rich, away. I don't think that Google, Amazon, any of the overwhelming success stories that have happened in the past five years EVER took this tack. They never said basically eff you. They remember what customer service really was. So, Google has gone to bed with the devil, it would seem. They need someone to set the alarm.
<<6. You can make money without doing evil.
Google is a business. The revenue the company generates is derived from offering its search technology to companies and from the sale of advertising displayed on Google and on other sites across the web. However, you may have never seen an ad on Google. That's because Google does not allow ads to be displayed on our results pages unless they're relevant to the results page on which they're shown. So, only certain searches produce sponsored links above or to the right of the results. Google firmly believes that ads can provide useful information if, and only if, they are relevant to what you wish to find.
Google has also proven that advertising can be effective without being flashy. Google does not accept pop-up advertising, which interferes with your ability to see the content you've requested. We've found that text ads (AdWords) that are relevant to the person reading them draw much higher clickthrough rates than ads appearing randomly. Google's maximization group works with advertisers to improve clickthrough rates over the life of a campaign, because high clickthrough rates are an indication that ads are relevant to a user's interests. Any advertiser, no matter how small or how large, can take advantage of this highly targeted medium, whether through our self-service advertising program that puts ads online within minutes, or with the assistance of a Google advertising representative.
Advertising on Google is always clearly identified as a "Sponsored Link." It is a core value for Google that there be no compromising of the integrity of our results. We never manipulate rankings to put our partners higher in our search results. No one can buy better PageRank. Our users trust Google's objectivity and no short-term gain could ever justify breaching that trust.
Thousands of advertisers use our Google AdWords program to promote their products; we believe AdWords is the largest program of its kind. In addition, thousands of web site managers take advantage of our Google AdSense program to deliver ads relevant to the content on their sites, improving their ability to generate revenue and enhancing the experience for their users.>>
How much more evil can they committ than by assisting Ed M in destoying individuals livlihood, businesses, marriages, reputations and so forth and while so doing NEVER removing the information. Regardless of the outcome. People, poor people like myself, are having to scrape and bow and beg to have personal information removed, information written when they were in the worst places in their lives, have scandalous, defamation in the title degrading you. There are revengeful mentally unbalanced people posting reports, and putting horrendous things on ROR. That could be dangersous. Full addresses. etc That any reputable company would even want to do business with these people is beyond my comprehension. If he does facilitate a resolution, that heading is still popping up in Google saying the same reumor or lie or where else it may. He still hurts people. He never helps. And as for the defamation, it is sickening. Outrageous and unheard of. If someone were to put on ROR that our president did something awful, I promise it would come off immediately. WE, the little people, have no power. And no one would pay 5000 to get it done, when actually it never is removed, just buried.
So is Google responding to this? What's the latest? I can't believe how a "black hat" company like this can cause so many companies to lose money. I've seen first hand where an upset sales guy from the company I work for got fired (or asked to leave) and then went to Ripoff Report and wrote up a juicy article that was full of crap!
Thanks to all of you who've contributed to the washing away of ROR.
ATTENTION! ATTENTION! ATTENTION!
Are You a Business or Individual Who Has Been HARMED by Ripoff Report and/or Google?
( Google was named in a recent ROR lawsuit in NY as well: https://www.scribd.com/doc/26578126/Seth-Greenky-v-Jeffrey-Joslin-Xcentric-Ventures-LLC-RipoffReport-com-COMPLAINT )
If so... now is our time to strike back! This is our chance!
This is the day we have been waiting for.
This is a "Call to Arms"!
The path has now been clearly laid out before us.
Above, you'll find the private investigator's video and comments. Here they are again:
Video: https://www.youtube.com/v/CIgDZRdBe08
Comments from Paladin PI: https://www.seomoz.org/blog/the-anatomy-of-a-ripoff-report-lawsuit#jtc108656
There are also more comments around that one in this thread.
Lawyers I think could help us and who I think you should contact NOW if you have been harmed:
Jared H. Beck & Elizabeth Lee Beck
https://www.beckandlee.com/jared.html
Harvard Law Graduate
email: [email protected]
email: [email protected]
305-789-0072
Greg Weston
https://www.westonfirm.com
emaill: [email protected]
858-488-1672
Jared, Elizabeth and Greg are the attorneys leading the charge in the class action lawsuit against Yelp. Yelp is described in the following manner here:
https://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-04-22/news/yelp-has-buckled-to-pressure-but-it-ain-t-enough/
"They're the modern-day Mafia. Maybe they're not holding a gun to my head, but they're playing the same game," says Taylor, who is also a plaintiff in the lawsuit. "It's too late for policy changes to help out. I just hope all this negative publicity finally tarnishes the company."
---> Sounds kind of like ROR, doesn't it?
This case against ROR is different, but similar things have/are being done by ROR and ROR is probably even in a WORSE position than Yelp.
If something is posted that is inaccurate about you or your company, don't you finally want JUSTICE? Do you not want to be EXTORTED by ROR? If so, I understand.
So, it is my opinion that you need to CONTACT THESE ATTORNEYS NOW:
Jared H. Beck & Elizabeth Lee Beck
https://www.beckandlee.com/jared.html
Harvard Law Graduate
email: [email protected]
email: [email protected]
305-789-0072
Greg Weston
https://www.westonfirm.com
emaill: [email protected]
858-488-1672
Put together a BRIEF statement as to who you are and how you have been harmed by ROR and/or Google so you appear to have your "head together". I understand you may be so angry, so get your thoughts together so that you make sense.
But, the bottom line is ROR has harmed a lot of people and there is a lot of evidence against them.
We have the video here from the private investigator and ALL OF THE OTHER LAWSUITS filed against ROR highlighted in this blog post and also on Wikipedia here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripoff_Report
Are ALL of these companies and individuals simply suing ROR with NO EVIDENCE? Of course NOT!
So, the time is NOW to take action. It is my suggestion that these attorneys can help us. I just get the feeling they can, because they did understand how Yelp was also harming others... so CONTACT THEM NOW if you have a valid claim:
Jared H. Beck & Elizabeth Lee Beck
https://www.beckandlee.com/jared.html
Harvard Law Graduate
email: [email protected]
email: [email protected]
305-789-0072
Greg Weston
https://www.westonfirm.com
emaill: [email protected]
858-488-1672
Also, ALERT OTHERS TO THIS PAGE - Businesses AND individuals who have sued ROR in the past, or who are unhappy with ROR now or who have CRAZY things written about them in ROR that are harming their business! Anyone angry, find them and show them this!
P.S. Now is our time! This is the moment we have been waiting for! The stars are aligned and everything is in place - we will WIN! If you have been harmed by ROR, take action NOW! ALERT YOUR FRIENDS or OTHER BUSINESSES of this NOW and take action yourself NOW!
Sarah,
Awesome write up. Perfect job at adding to the case we all need to build online to get Google's attention. Thanks for adding some lighter fluid to the fire.
This is such an informative post. I read through it once and immediately bookmarked it. This deserves to be read and reread.
I have to say, bringing Sarah on to share legal wisdom regarding all things web was one of the best strategic decisions for SEOmoz in all of 2007. . .and that's a bar set quite high with all of the other phenomenal additions.
So much of what we see at other blogs is, while very well-written, entertaining and informative in its own right, more often than not a lot of theoretical wax on a hypothetical piece of Google's algorithm or the venture of some unique ideas on business strategy. I love that stuff, I need that stuff, but I'm now realizing that there was a big hole out there that needed filling.
Thank you, Ms. Bird, for taking us all to school.
What an amazing addition you are to SEOmoz.
Rico Suave - giggle
Pat you back in Hawaii yet???
Aussie, yes, I am in Waikiki right now.
One the guys from my marketing department here moved there... if you are looking for help is is a great guy...
THANK YOU for giving me some props on that! Everyone is so excited about the law, which is great and all... but c'mon. Rico suave!?
Haha, it was a pretty sweet reference, thumbs up on that.
I think I was about ten when that video aired on MTV...and changed my life forever.
James,
Are you angry that I made an appearance at your trial last week? One of many. That the DA has great interest in what you and your master have been up to? In order for your diatribe to work I would have to be afraid. I am not. The people here don't care about me and/or the lies or truth you tell. They want Magedson's and his henchmen's head
What I find curious is that your relationship with ROR and Ed Magedson was never disclosed to the plaintiffs that sued. Danny Scalf was never disclosed and he has been Ed's Cyber Assassin for quite some time.
You claim I contacted you and asked you to lie about Ed. Again the recording of you leaving a message for me is also on my blog. I didn't know who you were otherwise you would have been in deposition in the ill advised insurance shakedown law suit Jaburg & Wilk filed and lost against me. I am on tape telling you just to tell the truth. In this case the truth is far worse that any lie told.
Do you think law enforcement hasn't figured this out? You guys do my job for me.
At my blog the recordings are there where you admit Ed gave you a script and told you go create logins so you could create posts and ad to others. You claimed Ed had you wire money to David Bedore using your ID so the money would not trace to him. You admit what some of us knew all along, David Bedore and Ed have a similar fondness for each other that you confess in public documents. No big deal, unless there is a problem with the age when that fondness began.
Danny Scalf under the name Frank Torelli created many stories too. There is 60 hours of recordings that I have of the "Secret Warrior", who left a trail a mile long of his skullduggery. Money changing hands. Offers to sell investigations to lawyers so they can pump up class action suits. Claims ROR is a not for profit so it will look good to the public and get grant money. Trying to get access to sensitive databases reserved for professional intelligence gathering organizations, including PIs, by telling them ROR was a debt collector. These databases have social security numbers, relatives, neighbors etc on them. Why would they want that?
You are also on recording saying you were instructed to go to Google and click on certain names that had a ROR post including mine. The other Blue World Pools which happens to be a CAP member now. The purpose you say was to rank the post higher in Goolge. Apparently that worked with Blue World Pools.
James while you may claim your indiscretions are a result of constant metheamphetamine use, I will remind you that sodomy is a still a crime in Arizona as is prostitution. You're on tape admitting that too. The DA is particularly interested in taking down guys already on Arizona Sex Offenders website for Molestation of a child. You serve no purpose in this life except to be someone's bitch in more ways than one.
For the right people, getting emails, bank records, cell phone records, texts etc is pretty easy. That's how I knew who you were. I was able to trace your drop cell phone to your mother, who bought it for you. Do you think your cell phone activity is secret? You text too much. You leave a trail.
I have a thought for the attorneys out there that have sued and lost or those thinking of suing. Do your homework instead of charging $300.00 an hour to flip paper. If you did that the outcome would have been much different because the truth was not told.
If you are a reporter, learn to investigate or at least vet your sources. Simply calling someone with an agenda and asking him if he thinks something is a scam is not journalism. Its lazy and stupid and you're being used as a tool.
Lastly James, it has not been missed by me that you have used key words and phrases in your post here. How many times have you done that on ROR?
Nice post Paladin.
Is there any way you can put some of this proof together and forward it to Google and get them banned? There is a way to report things to them, and if you email enough or find the right people to email to, you can get past the automated responses I would think. This is really what we need.
OK120, why don't you contact the NYTimes reporter who wrote about the eyeglases website (the links are in the post above) and ask him if he would investigate why ror reports are so visible in the SERPS unless they are about google employees.
Specifically, the alteration of Brin's name and this is the latest example:
https://www.highwick.com/privacy/smear-campaign/
The google employee is Will DeVries
What this is saying is that while the reputation of google employees should be protected the reputation of their users is not important.
TY. Key words, phrases, terminologies, repeats, etc. So transparent. Words spelled incorrectly, used incorrectly. If the same damn person is going to wear so many hats, get a ghost writer for God's sake.
Re: Keywords and phrases. You caught that as well, I see. The links as well.
Why the Ripoff Report is Ripe for Review The Ripoff Report and other online review properties have been engaging in questionable business practices, bringing consumer confidence in such resources into question and suggesting a need for a greater degree of regulation of consumer advocate sites. ShareThis Email PDF Print No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider. Los Angeles, CA (PRWEB) August 23, 2010
A recent court ruling cleared the Ripoff Report of extortion charges: Asia Economic Institute v. Xcentric Ventures LLC, 2:10-cv-01360-SVW-PJW (C.D. Cal. July 19, 2010), but the digital marketplace remains watchful and weary of Ripoff Report's business model.
Type a business name into a search engine and count the complaints that come up. As businesses continue to thrive (or fail) as a result of public opinion, the rise of social media has exponentially democratized the public review process and given new vigor to word of mouth advertising, referrals and especially complaints. All of this is well and good, assuming the sources are accurate, balanced, and genuine. But assumptions are not always correct, as entities like the ripoffreport.com and the Better Business Bureau (“BBB”) bring this burden of confidence into question.
Reputation management is big business. Most “Consumer Advocate” forums such as The Ripoff Report don’t check or regulate the accuracy of content, yet they actively promote the spread (and damage) that these unverified accusations might unleash.
On ripoffreport.com, it states: “Your Ripoff Report will be discovered by millions of consumers! Search engines will automatically discover most reports, meaning that within just a few days or weeks, your report may be found on search engines when consumers search, using key words relating to your Ripoff Report.” Granted that consumers are not always going to be satisfied and complains do occur from time to time, but when did it become ethical to encourage people to damage hard working businesses?
Obviously this business model is ripe for abuse, vendetta and even racketeering. The Ripoff Report and other similar sites require little more than a verified e-mail address before broadcasting a barrage of potentially damaging content across the web. Under the guise of consumer advocacy, these sites are just as likely to attract disgruntled employees, unethical competitors, or general havoc wreckers’ et al. As such, public good is better served though increased regulation of such websites.
Though numerous lawsuits have been filed against the Ripoff Report and CEO, Ed Magedson, these cases are typically settled for undisclosed conditions, or dropped entirely. This is largely due to the necessary but sweeping sanctions of Section 230(c)(1) of the Communications Decency Act, stating:
“No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.”
This can generally be interpreted to mean that webmasters will not be held liable for users’ posts submitted without any input or edits from the webmaster themselves, and hence cannot be sued for libel.
An excellent article outlining all of the above can be found here: https://www.seomoz.org/blog/the-anatomy-of-a-ripoff-report-lawsuit#jtc0 In reading, please note that the author was actually sued for her perfectly truthful and accurate report: Xcentric Ventures, LLC v. Bird, 2010 WL 447759 (D. Ariz. Feb. 3, 2010). Only recently did the case reach resolution – in her favor. The details can be found here: https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2010/02/ripoff_report_s.htm
Companies are built for the convenience of consumers, and all things fair, it’s the business that caters best that wins the spoils of rightful ROI. Unfortunately, Ripoff Report and other complaint boards don’t play fair. Legal victories for Ripoff Report are by and large un-applauded, even referenced (as quoted on Wikipedia) as “legally correct but morally troubling.” Despite heartfelt appeals from small business owners (see https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/related/ckcjc/reddit_can_you_please_help_me_for_five_years_i), the Rip-off Report continues to post and profit off the detriment of the over accused and under-represented.
It is not just the “mom and pop” companies that are in danger, as large companies pose as larger targets. Art dealing giant, Park West Gallery hosts a huge Rolodex of satisfied customers. The company is associated with well-respected and elite echelons of the art world – artists and critics alike. Common sense tells us that the company could not have thrived in the business for the past 40 years if this were not the case. However, a quick web query would cast major doubt in the mind of any consumer.
Complaints and misunderstandings are to be expected in the course of the business bustle. Weighted against the vast majority, complaints such as the ones levied against Park West are drops in a large bucket. Further investigation shows much activity on the part of the accused to satisfy each plaintiff – but these good deeds stay buried under a mountain of complains.
Broader categories suffer even more. The Tax Services category is a common service to every tax payer. Tax firms such as Progressive Tax Group effectively assist a multitude of taxpayers in need of professional representation, but a quick Google search puts the company’s reputation at risk. It’s important to note, that in total, the Ripoff Report hosts nine (9) complaints against Progressive Tax Group. Nine unverified complaints in the roster of what must be thousands of satisfied customers shouldn’t detract those in need of services from Progressive Tax Group. With the proliferation of the Internet gaining share in influencing purchase decisions, the propagation of nasty and unchecked claims through entities like the Ripoff Report are becoming more and more troublesome.
The Ripoff report is not the only open forum with questionable operating procedures. Other entities like the Complaints Board (www.complaintsboard.com) and even the BBB have been given too much legitimacy for too few reasons. The BBB, for example, holds itself out to be consumer and business friendly, however further research will show that the BBB takes payments in the form of membership/accreditation fees from businesses. This type of payment relationship opens the door for an immediate conflict of interest as the agency responsible for the “A to F” rating system is also taking payments from the rated businesses. Lastly, and most ironically, there are even complaints against the BBB filed with Ripoff Report!
A simple search into the history and credentials of these “advocate” organizations often reveal a questionable routine of private owners profiting from other’s businesses under the guise of digital unmediated “public outcry.” Quite simply, it isn’t fair. While Ripoff Report may have won the recent lawsuit brought against them on the charge of racketeering, it doesn’t excuse the business model from scrutiny – and a healthy dose of its own medicine: The Ripoff Report, as well as the BBB and other related entities are in serious need of review.
If your business has suffered a loss as a consequence of unfounded, inaccurate, or even fraudulent claims posted on review sites, email us at agentofthepress(at)gmail(dot)com as we would like to hear your story!
###
Fantastic post, Sarah! I love the fact that you are able to take complicated issues and explain them so clearly. That is a rare ability, yet one at which all the Mozzers seem to excel.
I hope something good comes of the recent posts about this company. (Namely, its downfall - at least in the SERPs!)
These are great points Rhodes85 and Smitty.
David Gingras, in my opinion, needs people to form a website where they allow any possible terrible anonymous comment - even complete lies - about him personally to really understand what a terrible thing ROR is.
I believe you out there should perhaps start one of these websites, and make sure it ranks #1 in Google for his name. ROR can be your template. Claim what they claim and hide your information on servers in Turkey.
Smitty, I would be ROR would be off of Google VERY quickly if people were to post about all of those people at Google right now and post that they are thieves, scam artists, child abusers - or anything else ROR attracts with its BS, anonymous spam system.
*IMPORTANT POINT: The reason ROR allows these spam, anonymous comments which are very harmful and can ruin companies and also individuals lives is the following:
- It allows them to make even more $$$ with what some would describe as their extortion business...or their "advocacy" program where you can "protect your company" from these lies and anonymous comments for thousands of dollars a month.
What a complete crock of shit. ROR should go down immediately.
I just reread the ROR website and noticed a few interesting things that should be pointed out.
under 'false reports' I found this:
'Suppose you just finished reading the long section about "So, you want to sue Ripoff Report?", and you realize that the law protects this website and, in most cases, does not allow you to sue the website's operators for the materials published here by users of the site. '
am I the only one that noticed the contradiction in that statement? the CDA both 'protects this site' and 'in most cases does not allow you to sue the website operators for materials published here by the users of the site'That is a blatant contradiction. Which is it then?
'Although our Terms of Service prohibit users from posting false information, we simply cannot serve as the judge or jury in disputes between two parties. '
In other words ROR violates its own terms of service agreement. If a person posts such a false report they have violated the TOS. That is grounds to band a person from any website. What exactly does ROR do to people that violate their TOS? Because clearly they leave reports on their site that are proven to violate their own TOS.
'If you think this is unfair, consider this -- everyone knows that Michael Jackson was accused many years ago of molesting a young boy (this was the first case, not the later one). While the police were investigating but before charges were filed, Michael Jackson reached a settlement with the boy which included a confidentiality provision that prevented the boy from talking about the case -- even to the police!'
It is illegal to include any clause in any contract that prohibits from cooperation WITH THE POLICE. The term 'obstruction of justice' comes to mind.
'Someone posted a report which violates Ripoff Report’s Terms of Service. Will you remove it?As explained on this page, although our Terms of Service prohibit users from posting false information, we simply cannot serve as the judge or jury in disputes between two parties.'
Not removing it would mean the ROR itself violates its own TOS agreement.
Take a look at RORs process for handing over the identity of a poster on their site:
'1.) Obtain a subpoena from an Arizona court (preferably the Maricopa County Superior Court in Phoenix) which describes the information you are requesting. You can send a copy to us at: [email protected] and [email protected] or you can fax a copy to us at: (480) 248-3196.
2.) As soon as you have your subpoena, you MUST post a notice as a rebuttal to each report for which you are seeking the author’s information. We will not do this for you, so please don’t ask. This notice must explain that you have initiated a court proceeding in an effort to learn the author’s identity and it should provide a case number and name/address of the court so that the author can appear and defend the case if necessary.'
Congratulations ROR, you just admitted - in writing, to violating US federal law. What you are saying here in plain english, is that a person must obtain a subpoena, send it to you and then post a rebuttal to whatever the complaint is on the site, before obtaining the information you are required to hand over BY COURT ORDER.This is blatantly illegal. Once you have been issued a subpeona you are required by federal law to comply with it and hand over the required information. You cannot require a person to post a rebuttal to get such information. I don't care what David or anyone else from ROR claims, this is outright illegal. It also would only go toward supporting such a false claim anyway. Which is exactly what the person would be trying to avoid.and providing case numbers, names and addresses in the rubuttal? are you kidding? that doesn't have to be posted for the person to defend themselves. The person would be informed of legal proceedings when the suit was filed.If ROR refused to comply with the subpeona because a person refused to post a rebuttal prior to obtaining the information, ROR would be prosecuted. Ask the DA in your state, they will tell you exactly the same thing. The subpeona is all that is needed. If ROR tried to pull this on me I would see to it the DA prosecuted them. I would also see to it their ISP and webhosts were contacted with court orders to have the site shut down for violating federal law (and thus violating the hosts and ISPs TOS) by refusing to adhere to the subpoena and using their website to support these actions.
Also, out of curiosity I was browsing ROR to see what complaints were made against random well known less reputable sites. I looked for reports from the flat earth society, facebook, stormfront and similar sites. Look what I found when I searched for reports on Stormfront: https://www.ripoffreport.com/bigots/donald-stephan-black/donald-stephan-black-jamie-ke-z7a62.htm
'Stormfront.org is what it says to be A front for stealing money and laundering monies of illegal racist operations. They are involved in child porn production . the money that they collect from unsuspecting individuals that member ship or donate .'
Gee, ROR is allowing postings of claims that people are using their sites to finance the production of child porn. That sounds like a hell of an accusation to me. ROR should not even have references to child porn on their site, and I would like to know what evidence ROR has to prove this and support allowing such a claim? As much as I despise Don Black, Stormfront and what it stands for I despise these kinds of accusations even more.
ROR has alot of explaining to do.
You might want to take a gander at this. I think changing the CDA is what's needed, but in the meantime, there may be an avenue for successful litigation through the way in which ROR presents their title tags. What they imply with their title tags is in their control, which isn't protected by the CDA (but seems like it would definitely qualify as slander). I think what this article is saying about Google is true as well.
Why do ripoff reports with the same age and linking structure to the main site have very different page rank?
Why do the majority of Google's big advertisers have no page rank on their ripoff reports?
Why do Google's big advertisers that do have ripoff reports with some page rank not rank accordingly (in line with the page rank associated with the page)?
You know that article says that MSN and Yahoo do not list ROR but they do. If you do a search with either of those engines, they do bring up ROR reports.
I haven’t seen David S Gingras the general counsel for Xcentric Ventures dba Rip Off Report in this forum posting in a few days. Perhaps he figured out that he was right, he couldn’t catch a break. What could have made him think anyone would be sympathetic to his ramblings? Did he have impaired judgment?David S Gingras general counsel to Xectenic Ventures dba Rip Off Report chose not to answer the last question posed, that being what public record exists in the courts about himself?Let me get this round table discussion going. The link herewith is a PDF filed by the Supreme Court. Goolge David S Gingras and this is what you get:
https://www.supreme.state.az.us/clerk/2008SBJudgments/SB080157D.pd
My question David S Gingras general counsel to Xcentric Ventures dba Rip Off Report, were you drunk when you posted in here and are you drunk now?
If people do this right, the first thing that comes up is your transgressions. And there is more isn’t there? Perhaps you are not that man any more but it won’t matter. Potential clients will see the man the Arizona Supreme Court wanted the world to see when they sent their decision to all the law publications. Eventually it might become difficult for you to attract clients for Jaburg and Wilk. No billable hours that is the lifes blood of your profession will not endear you to them. You might face an economic downturn. Just like some of the people your client Ed Magedson has chosen to profile.You can not protest loudly dear David S Gingras general counsel to Xcentric Ventures dba Rip Off Report. You have the choice as to whether you want him for a client of not.
So now that we have a healthy discussion started please join in and discuss the other matter that is in the courts so we can discuss that too and Jaburg and Wilks clients can become aware of what kind of lawyers are defending them.
DAVID S. GINGRAS
Bar No. 021097; File No. 06-2059
Supreme Court No. SB-08-0157-D/R
By Arizona Supreme Court judgment
and order dated Dec. 5, 2008,
David S. Gingras, 3200 N. Central
Ave., 20th Fl., Phoenix, AZ, was
suspended for 30 days. He was
placed on probation for two years
and is required to participate in the
State Bar’s Member Assistance
Program (MAP). He was also
assessed the costs and expenses of
the disciplinary proceedings. Mr.
Gingras was reinstated effective
Feb. 19, 2009.
Mr. Gingras was conditionally
admitted to the State Bar and
required to enter into a MAP contract.
The MAP contract specified
that Mr. Gingras was to completely
abstain from using alcohol, other
drugs, or any other mood-altering
or mind-altering chemicals for three
years. Mr. Gingras violated the
terms of the MAP contract and was
arrested for driving under the influence.
Mr. Gingras pled guilty to
driving while impaired to the slightest
degree.
Three aggravating factors were
found: dishonest or selfish motive,
refusal to acknowledge wrongful
nature of conduct and illegal conduct.
Seven mitigating factors were
found: absence of prior disciplinary
record, personal or emotional problems,
timely good-faith effort to
make restitution or to rectify consequences
of misconduct, full and free
disclosure to disciplinary board or
cooperative attitude toward proceedings,
character or reputation,
imposition of other penalties or
sanctions and remorse.
Mr. Gingras violated Rule 42,
ARIZ.R.S.CT., ER 8.4(b) and Rule 53(g), ARIZ.R.S.CT.
Any ones guess,
Honestly, I would prefer to debate the real issues rather than deal with personal attacks (which, of course, I can't respond to since, unlike me, you've decided to hide your real identity).
However, I couldn't have asked you for a bigger favor in terms of proving my points here. By childishly attacking me rather than responding to the issues, all that you have done is to prove what I already knew -- that you CAN'T respond to the issues. Why can't you respond? Because Ripoff Report is 100% legally right and you are 100% legally wrong, and you KNOW it. If that wasn't the case and if you actually had a legitimate position (you don’t) you'd gladly explain your legal points and leave it at that.
Instead, you are stuck on the wrong side of the law so you decide to throw dirt at me hoping that it makes you look better. Sorry, it doesn't make you right; it makes you a coward. And worse yet - you're a coward who doesn't even understand the law that you and your friends are disagreeing with. No wonder name calling is the best you can do; it’s apparently the only thing you can do.
Unfortunately for you, my DUI-related suspension (which arose from a speeding ticket in 2006) was only 30 days long and it ended long ago. That mistake was certainly regrettable but it isn't shocking – it’s a matter of public record that George W. Bush has one DUI conviction and former Vice President Chaney has two DUIs. While I don’t defend my conduct, I accepted responsibility for it and this event has zero impact on my status today. I remain in good standing with the Supreme Courts of both Arizona and California and all federal courts in both states.
That means that you can call me names, but it won’t deter me from continuing to use my legal skills to defend Ripoff Report against misguided folks such as yourself. Of course, defending Ripoff Report isn't very difficult when the best that people like you can do is to attack the messenger while completely failing to address the message. That's why you continue to lose and we continue to win.
Oh, one other thing -- while I'm sure you feel proud of yourself thinking that your comments might cause fewer clients to hire me, that's really not an issue. Clients and courts care only about results, not about the personal lives of the lawyers in the case. The Arizona Supreme Court's order has always been available on Google, and despite that clients still continue to hire me because I know the law extremely well, not because I'm perfect.
Anyway, I have another lengthy response to Rhodes85 that I plan to post soon. Unlike you, at least Rhodes is attempting to debate the facts and the law, though I respectfully think he’s incorrect about most of his conclusions. As always, if you or anyone else has any REAL arguments to present, I’ll be happy to respond to those as well.
~David Gingras
General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC
[email protected]
I would like for you to reply publically why you sent me a private email, that you got from ROR's records, indicating that you had a heart or that we could perhaps talk only to never respond to me again? I would like to know why you have caused me a great deal of upset and stress, have not responded to the three ensuing emails that I have sent to you, what the purpose of your private email to me was?
Also, I want to know if by my responding to him, from those on here who knows, he obtained anything from my email response that has allowed any "inroads" into my system, or anything of that sort, if there was anything to be gained by him emailing me, and getting me to respond because he certainly will not respond since.
I have been very very very upset.
Smitty,
I mentioned these people are scam artists in the opinion of many. They hide behind a lot of things. Notice, there are many things this ROR "David" hasn't addressed because he is really in on the scam, some would definitely say - perpetuating lies and BS. See all the past replies, its clear. Thats why they have no true owner and are hidden on Turkish servers and allow anonymous comments so they can extort money from people and businesses that don't like them.
All that I have to say to him at this point is that if he does not like his treatment on this site, with true information and if he is belittling anyone for not showing their TRUE identity, which he claims he did and he DID NOT, he had to be outted, well, welcome to our effing world. All the crap said about us has been by anonynomous chickenhearted idiots, and has been lies. Tough shit. This is the type of agenda he legally supports. Go back to the hell you create.
You have done pissed me off house counsel.
Smitty,
The reason I haven't responded to you is simple - I have not received any email replies from you.
I don't know if you were aware of this, but Ripoff Report has been under a DDOS attack for a couple of weeks. Since this is a federal crime, the FBI is investigating (seriously). Anyway, the attack has apparently also caused serious disruption to our email, so perhaps that's why none of your messages ever reached me.
If you want, please feel free to forward anything you sent to my alternate email: [email protected]. I will respond as soon as I get your message.
~David Gingras
General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC
[email protected]
Yes...doing his client in. I wonder if anyone has considered the possibility that the law firm has decided to get out before they too are held accountable? Perhaps the otherwise benign postings of Mr. General Counsel are really an attempt to discard the soon to be depleted golden goose by throwing him to the wolfs so the law firm appears to be doing their jobs but in reality are shucking a bad oyster.
"the law firm has decided to get out before they too are held accountable?"
What does that mean? Jaburg & Wilk continues to represent Ripoff Report, so if that's the "firm" you're talking about, they haven't gone anywhere.
As for discarding a soon to be depleted golden goose, this also makes no sense. Ripoff Report continues growing and doing better than ever.
~David Gingras
General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC
[email protected]
Why David I sense frustration and hurt from you. So far as addressing the issues, I think I just did. And you filed a rebuttal that will keep the chain going. Nothing I said was untrue and it forced you to respond. I am protected by the freedom of speech that you use so ferociously to protect the very anonymous posters on the Rip Off Report. I have never seen you call them a coward. However if you like for the princely sum of $5000.00 I will investigate you and declare that you are a wonderful chap regardless of what really exist out there, some of which you left out.It seems inconsistent to me that you would react this way but tells me that you are not in touch with the real issues, that being kindness, mercy and forgiveness. That somehow David S Gingras you feel the something legal makes it ethical in spite of the hurt and anger you display.I saw on another post out there someone has taken all your Facebook information including your sister’s information and that of your friends and posted it to include even your home address. That seems so unfair to me but I have to wonder, is your family proud of your work or do they wonder why…and did they or you for that matter invite Ed Magedson over for Thanksgiving? Why not?You posting here is nothing but damage control. It screams please don’t sue us because law suits are draining our life’s blood and sooner or later, win or lose we are going to take a torpedo that will do us in. Your motives here are not gallant or benevolent nor are you trying to teach. You are simply trying to dissuade the angry masses from messing with you. David please tell us what else about you exists in the courts. Perhaps you would like some mercy? Here is my thought on the matter. “Treat others like you would like to be treated” Isn’t Ed Magedson Rip Off of the Golden Rule.
That torpedo can't come soon enough. Some person or company must sue after all of the great golden nuggets of information and opportunity here in reading these posts. David is actually doing his client in. Maybe, indeed, he can't live with himself after all. His parents can't be proud. And to go to Law School for this? Hahahaha.
what he did to me alone is horrible. I cannot believe it.
what he did to me alone is horrible. I cannot believe it.
ok120,
Why wouldn't my parents be proud of me? Let's review my job -- I fight on a daily basis to defend the First Amendment rights of everyone (including you) to speak their minds. Do you have a problem with someone defending the Constitution?
Not only that, but I'm pleased to say that in my time as one of ROR's lawyers, I have never lost a single case. In fact, 2008-2009 brought four published federal court decisions in our favor and numerous unpublished state court decisions in our favor. I don't know many lawyers (or parents) who wouldn't be proud of that track record. Honestly, if ROR's position was so wrong, don't you think that at least ONE judge would have disagreed with us by now?
The reason you think my parents wouldn't be proud is because you have no understanding of the law or the truth. Sure, in the mixed-up fantasy world that you inhabit, ROR is evil. The problem is - your world is based on PURE FICTION. It's simply not true. Ripoff Report doesn't create fake reports and then charge money to remove them, and we don't sit around tinkering with reports to try to make them appear higher on Google. We don't have time for that nonsense. We run a website where people post comments...just like this site and a million others.
Let's just cut to the chase here -- I see two scenarios for you. In one scenario, someone posted something about you on ROR that you didn't like. Rather than being a man about it and dealing with the message, you decide to attack the messenger with a bunch of made-up crap trying to make yourself appear to be an innocent victim when you're clearly not.
The other scenario is that like SEOmoz, you're selling anti-ROR services, so it benefits you to try to make ROR look as bad as possible. By spreading fear like this, SEO companies make their services appear more valuable than they really are.
So which one is it?
~David Gingras
General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC
[email protected]
Wait, you said that you were the "general counsel" and as such, you do not try cases, so how did you not lose a single case in the period of time stipulated David? You are either a trial lawyer, or you are not. I am totally confused as to your role with the firm and what role you play as an employee of ROR.
When you did not hear back from me, did you not find that odd? And, of course you have the PM system here, which I posted that was now available to you David as I had not blocked, I had never unblocked it. I did not know that was an option. So, if you want to say something, please do so at this venue and I will look for it.
Some information for you, in light of your email, would be that Millie Plemmons husband has a brain tumor, quite large, which took him to Duke hosp for surgery. As I understand it he is not doing well. I cannot call to check but my guess would be that he is on borrowed time. I gave him much sorrow the last two years of his life. You could take some of it away.
If you PM me, I will repeat what I said to you in my email. I am not completely buying the story, I am sorry. ROR has given me no reason, to date, to believe that they care if I live or die. Indeed when I called them from the hospital in Feb of 2009 begging for consideration, passing only blood, they shooed me away like a fly and turned the volume up. Is this a bad employee who got pleasure from that? Is that Ed? You? I have no idea, but I will wait to see if you PM me. I do not know what has happened to your computer system, this Federal violation you are speaking of but I do know that something is wrong with mine. So, we can PM.
Smitty,
Your confusion about my role is understandable. I wear several hats.
To clear this up -- I only became ROR's General Counsel in July 2009. Prior to that I was one of its litigators at Jaburg & Wilk and I worked on most if not all of the recent cases against ROR in 2008-2009. So, it's accurate to say that have been both a trial lawyer for ROR and the site's General Counsel. Sorry if I didn't make that clear before.
Also, did I think it was odd when I didn't hear back from you? Yes, I did. However, you really didn't post anything else on here after I emailed you, so part of me started to question whether you were actually a real person or just someone pretending to be a real person. This remains to be seen, of course, but for now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. ;-)
Finally, as for the phone call, I don't answer ROR's phones, so it wasn't me that you spoke with. If you need to call me, my # was at the bottom of the email I sent to you.
~David Gingras
General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC
[email protected]
You're saying Ripoff Report doesn't create fake reports.
Then how come the infamous Sergey Brin report is now being permanently redirected with a 301 to the EXACT same article, but with a different name? I'm assuming only RoR staff has access to the site's backend, and only one of them could have implemented that 301 redirect. https://i.imgur.com/PG6p9.png
Did Soney Bonoi do the EXACT same thing as Sergey Brin in the same location with the same girls?
You're not defending the First Amendment rights for everyone, you're abusing the loopholes in the law.
ok120,
"Some person or company must sue after all of the great golden nuggets of information and opportunity here in reading these posts."
Do you really think that's smart advice?
If so, here's an interesting fact for you -- go find the lawsuit that Ripoff Report filed against SEOmoz and review the pleadings on PACER. As explained in that case, someone DID sue Ripoff Report based on the "great nuggets of information" posted here. In fact, not only did that plaintiff follow Sarah Bird's advice, he copied and pasted some of her suggested allegations into his Complaint in an effort to "get around" the CDA...just like Sarah recommended.
Wanna know how that one turned out? Since making knowingly false allegations in a lawsuit is illegal, we filed something called a "Special Motion to Strike" which asked the court to strike the Complaint and sanction the plaintiff by forcing him to pay all of our attorney's fees.
In order to respond to that type of motion you have to produce evidence showing that your claims are valid and not just made-up. Want to know what "evidence" this plaintiff produced?
Yup, you guessed it -- he literally printed a copy of Sarah Bird's "Anatomy of a Ripoff Report Lawsuit" and attached it to his brief. That was his "proof".
Do you think he won, or do you think he ended up paying our fees? I'll give you a hint -- he didn't win.
P.S. Unlike the lies you keep making up, every word I said above is true and is documented with court filings, etc.
~David Gingras
General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC
[email protected]
I am really confused. I hear/read what you are saying David. I also read/hear what you are NOT saying.
He did not win, but you did not say he paid your fees. You can ask/file for anything, that does not mean you get it. Ppl do need to be careful how they file, but the funny thing about all of this is that were the things on this site so completely false, and were they without any teeth, they would be gone.
Sarah was sued, we all know that, but this site is not gone. Unlike the ppl who post on ROR, she posted as herself here. Got sued. Do you find that a bit ironic David? You create a place for ppl to say MUCH worse things about others that have ever been said on here about ROR, Much worse, and most of them are untrue, but here is the difference, there is no legal justice. You are a champion of the law, you made your career choice one where mankind, consumers, entity's could seek legal recourse when they were wronged, but then you chose to work for a company that takes that right away from them.
Every person has a right to counsel, even the Charles Manson's of this world. Every lawyer decides how he feeds his family and pays for his Mercedes, should that be his choice of lifestyle. And, there is nothing wrong with that, you go to school, get a degree, and if you work hard, you are honest and play by the rules, hell yes, get a five bathroom house and live the life.
But for me David, I would have that line. You come here with your sharp teeth and your pontification and extol the rights of ROR, while trampling those of us who have been maimed, have lost our livelihoods maybe our families because of ROR. We cannot hire fine counsel like yourself and sue that person who did this to us because he is Mr. no one. You protect that, while thumping your chest over Ed's right to sue us, and ROR's right to do the same.
To me, I would have a difficult time picking the bones of the broken ppl who have been victims of ROR out of my teeth before I went to bed at night. To me, I could run ROR, I could see a place for it, but not straight across the board, Common sense has dictates. Say what you will, there are other boards of like kind who DO listen to reason, will look at what you bring to their attention and remove a report. I know this. They make judgement calls on unbalanced individuals. They check IP's to see if a nut is spamming after one person for revenge. It can be done.
Ed could most likely do all the above, have a lot less headache, be a lot richer, all the legal eagles he seems to have are not cheap, and have a lot less enemies. He seems to be a moving target, I would not want to be him. I do not hate him. I hate who he grew up to be, how he lost track of what matters in the world. You never know, maybe he will get sick like I have and things will look a different color to him one day. We can fight all day long and leave crap out, read between the lines, but at the end of it all, you gotta live with yourselves. Remember, I did this to myself. Me.
Smitty,
#1 -- I sent you a PM, so check your box.
#2 -- Let me address this comment from you:
"Sarah was sued, we all know that, but this site is not gone. Unlike the ppl who post on ROR, she posted as herself here. Got sued. Do you find that a bit ironic David? You create a place for ppl to say MUCH worse things about others that have ever been said on here about ROR, Much worse, and most of them are untrue, but here is the difference, there is no legal justice."
To answer your question, I don't think it is ironic that Sarah was sued. When people cross the line and say things that are untrue, there are consequences for this.
And, in fact, ROR is really no different. Do we create a place for people to speak out? OF COURSE. However, it's not correct to say that "there is no legal justice".
Just like with the ROR vs. SEOmoz lawsuit, anyone who posts anything false on ROR can be sued and can be held accountable for their actions. The only, repeat ONLY thing the law says you can't do is to hold ROR responsible for material posted by someone else.
That rule is not unfair. If the rule didn't exist (as Sarah correctly notes in her post), then blogs like this wouldn't exist at all. If websites could be held liable for speech posted by their users at 3am, well then websites wouldn't allow anything to be posted at all. That's a fact.
Would the world be a nicer place if there was no such thing as online speech? I don't know. Maybe yes, but maybe no. It surely would mean that people who really ARE being ripped off would have a lot less power to have their voices heard, and in my humble opinion, I don't think that's a good thing.
Do I like innocent people being hurt in the crossfire? Absolutely not. Do I want to help people whenever possible? Absolutely yes. But how do we do that without creating a rule that says no one is allow to post anything?
That's the hardest question to answer, and despite all their wisdom, Rhodes85 and ok120 haven't offered a single useful solution to that problem. Maybe if they did, we could all shake hands and be friends. Until then, all I can do is to continue trying to explain our side of the story to you guys.
~David Gingras
General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC
[email protected]
You miss my point. This is not about free speach, nor about being held responsible when you say something is not true that hurts another in one of many ways that have been discussed here. That is all absolute and I do not think that you would get an argument from a soul here that this is what American was founded on and what it is about. Where the problem lies, is in that when ppl are allowed this so called freedom of speech under an alias and as such are NOT held accountable. You, me anyone in this or any other country should have all rights to freedom of speech and also the consequences that come with that right. What ROR has taken from this equation is the consequences. That site is about removing fear of reprisal, and my spelling is subject due to the fact that my MS is cognitive so bear with me please. ROR removes any and all consequences from any individual for anything they say or do. It is akin to allowing ppl to commit crimes with no punishment forthcoming.
We here at this site are not about reducing, removing or limiting any freedoms that our forefathers fought for. But we are about our civil rights. See David, my reports, the ones that I rue and regret, are true. Go and read the report put on the site about me, Jan Martin Smith. I am not ashamed to put my name on here. As a matter of fact, should you read a few posts back you can see that I have put the name of the company that I had to close when I was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2004, so that it can be researched in the cororate listings in the state of which I reside. It is all there. Do not question if I am a real person. I am. But, back to my reports, they are all factual and true. I have emails from one of the mistresses that she sent to me within the last few months confirming that she had affairs with my husband over 15 years, off and on, that she always started them, he never called her, and she lays it all out. As for the report in my name, go read the rebuttals. The last affair that he had, she posts a rebuttal to the report apologizing for what she did to my life, stating everything that I have said is true. So, David, my reports are true, factual and I am in no fear of being sued. Never was. I was just crazed with the more heartbreak, pain and sorrow than I could relay and hope no one ever feels. When the dust settled, I knew I did not want that on there. For all the reasons that I have said.
Go and read all my posts if you doubt who I am, then go and look at the corporate records for the state of NC and see if I started my company in 1996, Jan, and closed it in 2004. I am real. I have nothing to hide but my shame. And, it is too late for that.
I did not come here and post right away because of the nature of our communication and what I had to say to you. I was waiting for a response.
So, what I have to say is that this site is a good site, because I am held responsible for what I say. Ror is not, because when I go there, I can say anything and no one will find out who I am to get to sue me. It is dirty and unclean.
It is indefensible in the fact that one person, just one, can take down a company. One person. I have a good friend who had a stalker who she had to spend close to 100,000. to get to stop harrassing her. In the process, her business suffered, her mental status suffered. This individual was diagnosed with severe mental illnesses. Guess what that person found? ROR. That person created over a hundred personas and destroyed her business. She moved to another country to do it. She is obsessed. And this is only one story. Another lady wrote a book about a similar situation. This is serious, it is not just small potatoes. It will end, either softly or hard, but David, it will end. I will go and read you PM.
Wow -- Maria was right -- you ARE Shawn Richeson.
Howdy all.
I read through all the posts here and there are a few things i'd like to add that I don't think have been considered yet.
'However ROR will not remove the posting even at the poster's direction.'
I saw that on the ROR site as well but the fact that they say that means they pretty much screwed themselves over. Why? federal copyright law. By law anyone who creates an original work (in this case the text of a ripoff report) automatically owns the copyright to that original work. They legally have full rights to it unless they sign over ownership to someone else. Which means they have the legal right to determine what is done with said post. You have the legal right to have a anything you posted removed at your request. If a site refuses then they violate federal copyright law and can be prosecuted for copyright violations for it. I've seen this happen on several websites in the past and ROR would be no different. Though this of course applies only to an ROR that you yourself write. Their only 'defense' to this would be if they attempted to claim that such postings were their property via a clause in their TOS agreement. Which would be worse for them becase to do so they would have to ownership and thus responsibility for every post on their site. Thus they could face legal action. Also that stuff about the 12 year olds info being posted (address, etc...) ROR could get in very serious trouble for that. There are several child protection laws which prohibit disclosing information that could be used to locate and harm a child. Such information is supposed to be removed from a submitted post. Also is anyone else aware that editing a persons post is also technically considered a violation of copyright law if done without the persons knowledge and consent? I'd look into that as well.
That being said going after Google and ROR directly will not work if you don't have the money to back it up. Lawsuits are not cheap. I suggest a simpler method that many people and companies use to prevent actions such as ROR is committing. Go after ROR's webhost and ISP. As you know they both have TOS agreements that govern their use. Part of those agreements is that a person using them cannot use them in any way that can be considered criminal, harmful or defamatory. What you have to do is go to the ISP or webhost with proof that an ROR about you is false and that they refuse to remove it and tell the host or ISP that you will hold them liable for their customers illegal use of their service to commit illegal acts. Most hosts and ISPs will take immediate action against the persons account for misuse of their service, in order to prevent legal liability on their end. This happens alot more frequently than you think. In short even if you couldn't get ROR directly in a lawsuit you can have their internet connection shut down or their host remove their website for breaching the hosts TOS agreement.
Great response. So do we know who that is? Having tried every thing in my power, reasoning, crying, begging to no avail, I am open to any consideration.
Who is their webhost and or ISP's?
I found a post on Ripoff report with the following passage. Below appears to be the ISP name of Ripoff Report. They are in Turkey and are probably there to avoid techniques like the one described above - unless, of course, anyone has any connections in Turkey:
Additionally, USMF will subpeona the records of ISP: ALKIM BASIN YAYIN ILETISIM LTD STI for any and all information related to the above referenced Action for the IP addresses recorded at 217.17.158.46 and/or 217.17.158.47 including, but not limited to any and all traffic reports and IP address information with regards to the incident which occured on 04/04/2009 at approximately 3:59:32 a.m. EST.
It seems David S Gingras is the general counsel for Xcentric Ventures. Perhaps Mr. General Counsel you can convince us of your identity by confirming the public record that exists in the courts regarding you. We can help you if you like but will allow you to explain it.
Additionally help us understand the Verified Safe program Rip Off Report has. John Beck is listed as verified safe yet the Federal Trade Commission has filed an action against him in 2009. In the suit there exists several consumer affidavits that must not have made it to Rip Off Report or maybe they have but they were hidden for a reason. Does that serve the public well?
Of course John Beck hasn't been found guilty in that case yet and maybe he is not. Maybe the FTC will get him to stop what Rip Off Report has not.
ED, you are a scam artist and a thief
You know, after having my name on this shitty little list for a few years, and seeing the effects on my business. I have a wonderful idea for all of you attemting to bring down this idiotic website that ED created.
A few days before your hearings, post a personal comment about the judge, anonomously of course, saying the judge has mental problems and that he screws his cats in the ear at midnight or something. Then make a report about the county itself, how they misappropropriate funds and all kinds of lies. As a matter of fact I could go on a spree and complain about every judicial circuit in America, I bet after finding Libelous and Slanderous posts like that, someone changes their tune. Bullshit is Bullshit and even though apparently no one is responsible for their own bullshit, eventually someone is just going to clean it up because they are tired of walking in it. No Judge in his right mind is going to allow anonomous slander like this happen to his person.
Get that introduced as evidence, found in your discovery phase and Im positive that a judge may finally understand how this is affecting people in the WRONG way.
Me, I was forced into bankruptcy because american express held a reserve account in the tune on 63, 000 from me, because I did TOO much business, I had originally told them I would do 20,000 a month, but my business grew fast as I was in demand and doing great work. I tried to keep the ball rolling and make good on my contracts, but in the end, the 63,000 hit on my company was just too much.
Now the 2 customers that were complaining, were correct in that they did not get their projects completed. Amex's reserve account hold caused me to not be able to fullfill a couple of contracts, but the flaming ROR caused me to file bankruptcy. Does that make me a rip-off artist? Does that make me a con-artist? Well thats what the reports say and the funniest thing about it is that if the customers had not made these false complaints and slander i may have been able to pull it out and do enough business to cover those losses over a period of time. But since the reports were there and there is nothing I can do about it, customers were leaving in droves and not buying because they see reports labeling me things that I am not.
While Ed may be holding on to the letter of the law, there are certain moral and ethical delimas that website owners will run into from time to time, and most of them find a way to deal with the problem and make its client base happy. Not ED. He is quite content with letting you rape me and me rape you under sudonyms and anonamous postings, all the while patting himself on the back for engaging the world in his self procalimed "consumer protection" racket. Get creative ED, get off of your fat lazy ass and make your website something to be proud of, instead of being such a hard headed prick. Sheep go to heaven, Goats go to hell.
Does that make me anything other than another american dream gone bad, due to the uncontrolable actions of a bigger corporation? Should I bleed for this customer, slice my wrists and end my life as a customer would have it?
the route I am taking is this. I filed bankruptcy for protection from my creditors. When the bankruptcy was finalized, those posts should come down as all collection activities and settlement of all claims against my company. These posts are an extention of the clients trying to get their money back, and have already been addressed by the bankrupcy court. Protection from creditor harrassment.
Forget it ED and former customer. This is America after all and I have the right to unbury myself from this nightmare that I did not create and have been living with for years. Your both liars, theives and scam artists yourself, in my humble opinion.
Amen to you and I have no idea what it will take to take his ass down. I am so sick of it all, sick of what it has done to so many people. You are correct, if reports were on here saying that the judge screwed cats he would be up in arms. But alas, it does not say that, and of course, any report that is on here about Ed is not found on a search. Yes, Ed, you are a waste of space and from the pictures I have seen it would not hurt you to take a bath and wash you hair too.
ROR is horrible. Something occurred to me the other night though and I wonder why it wouldn't work.
Let's start a non-profit membership for people wronged by ROR. For $5- $10 a month, we build a treasury. When we have gathered enough, let's put ROR in the scum neighborhood it is. Wholesale link buying from porn to Viagra to credit repair and so on. Make the link profile for ROR to look so spammy and atrocious, how could Google NOT penalize the domain? Heck, then we can even report the spam to make sure.
I am not even sure that I understand how that would work. I am just so down hearted with all of it. I do not have the money to fight this. Mine is all personal, not consumer and does no one any good at all, only causes pain. There is no reason for him to leave it on there, there is no reason for him to even allow personal shit on that shit if he is a "consumer advocate". I guarantee you that I could not put a BBB report up about my husbands mistresses. ROR is just pure sleeze, and it caught me at the most horrible, destroyed time in my life when my judgement was the worst. Really I had none. I hate ROR, I hate Ed M. and I hope only that he gets what he deserves someday for the pain that he has caused people personally, professonally and socially. He is an evil man with nothing redemptive about him that I can tell. I do not know how he lives with himself. He cannot be rich, he is bankrupt spiritually and morally for sure. He is hated by known associates and strangers far and wide. What a legacy to leave. He is a horrible human being for not taking the time to really consider what he has done to people's lives. There are so many unbalanced people out there using his venue to hurt other people, and I am not talking about my experience. Mine is peanuts compared to the people I have met through my experience. I created my hell, and cannot get out of it. There are people on here who have been so victimized by sick, unbalanced people. Ed could well be the facilitator for crimes as yet untold. It is so scary.
Here's an interesting site about Google's possibly ties to ROR I found:
https://ripoffpagerank.com
Ohhhhh, I like this site. I have to get ready to go to a dinner, but I like this one. I plan to get into the meat of it tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for the link. Very nice.
What happened to the URL : (
Hearsay…no this is direct testimony. If there is a doubt about the credibility of the interviewed party it should be known that she is listed in a Federal document as being a litigant in a suit that Maria Crimi Speth attempted to have taken to class action status. I would presume that she was credible then.
Also certain disclosures statements in another case support much of what they say. Not only that but also, other interviews with unrelated people support much of what was said.
Maria Crimi Speth filed a complaint on my private investigators license alleging many different things…outrageous things. Experienced detectives with the Department of Public Safety investigated the claims and found no merit to them, though they had interesting things to say about the business model of the Rip Off Report.
The video you viewed is part of a 48 minute interview and you haven’t seen what else has been said a portion of which is that the two parties were very clear that Ed Magedson, the “lawyer guy” tried to get them to say untrue things on the Rip Off Report.
What have I done? I turned everything over to Federal and state law enforcement. No wonder they write such bad things about me.
Sorry about the slow reply, my ISP was having problems.
'Why is ROR hosted in Turkey David with no clear-cut US presence?'
Simple. In case someone reports their actions to their host. That is the ONLY reason anybody registers their website with a company that doesn't necessarily adhere to US law.
'why was Sergey Brin's report changed David? '
A very good question. Notice it still hasn't been answered.
'Ripoff Report is operated by Xcentric Ventures, LLC which is an Arizona-based LLC'
That doesn't mean the website can't be hosted in another country. I'm Canadian and have websites based in Canada and the US. Whats your point?
'Simple -- because people lied to MSN and Yahoo about us, claiming Ripoff Report violates the law when, in fact, it doesn't.'
MSN and Yahoo do not just remove things because someone claimed something was illegal. They DO investigate first.
'We run a message board. People post comments there. Some comments are nice. Some comments are not nice. But since we don't write any of these comments, please don't blame the wall for the graffiti.'
You sir are a liar. ROR is NOT a message board. On a message board posts are made to the board automatically and can be edited and removed at the authors discretion. ROR allows people to submit reports to their staff, who review the 'claim' and decide whether they are going to allow it on their site or not. You see and know what is posted to the website before it is, therefore you DO have some responsibility for the level of 'graffiti' as you put it as well as control of what does and does not go onto the site. Don't believe me? Explain why posts about Ed were not put on the site.
'BTW: What's your full name and what state are you located in so we can look up your credentials as an attorney?'
I second that
'If you'd like to debate the actual issues rather than talking about who owns Xcentric Ventures (sorry, that's not relevant to this discussion)'
If it isn't relevant why are you avoiding the question?
'I'm not Ed and I don't pretend to understand every detail of his decision-making process'
And you're his lawyer...? What kind of lawyer says they don't try to understand why their clients make the decisions they have made - particularly when they may be getting in legal trouble for said decisions? That is a VERY strange statement you made there.
'why don't we take down reports when the AUTHOR asks us to (as opposed to someone else)? There are many policy reasons for this and it sounds like you have already heard some of them'
Policy statements don't mean anything. Federal law requires, repeat REQUIRES you to remove them at the authors request. This has nothing to do with the CDA, it is about copyright law - federal and international. I also noticed you didn't say a single word in reference to my having brought up the copyright aspects. You think people will not notice it if you don't bring it up? If outright avoiding things didn't work for my ex its certainly not going to work here for you.
'we never know if we're dealing with the real author or someone just claiming to be the author (and NO, it's not enough that the request is submitted by someone who knows your login/password)'
You are either lying or you have absolutely no idea whatsoever of what you are talking about. It is VERY simple to prove that the person that submitted the report is the same person asking to remove it. Its called checking their IP address. If its the same person the IPs for the original post and the removal message will match. This is undeniable fact. Unlike you this happens to be my field of expertise and I do know what I am talking about. Your excuse doesn't cut it. and notice you STILL didn't reply to my mention of copyright law in this post either.
'but it is exactly the same as the policy adopted by most courts which never delete case files and other public records, even when a defendant is found not guilty'
ROR is neither a Government agency nor a court of law. Comparing it to either is absurd. Furthemore, when a person if found guilty or not guilty it is via evidence (ie: PROOF) not hearsay (that you yourself just admitted could come from anyone at all) from random people on a website that may have a grudge or other reason to harm a persons character or their company. If you are comparing the proceedings of a court of law to the policies of ROR then you really have no idea what you are talking about. I would love to have heard your arguments in court.
'Your second question asks why we allow personal complaints if the site is supposed to be limited to consumer issues. Honestly Smitty, I will answer that question as best I can but I have to confess -- this is a strange question coming from you considering that you have said you posted four reports on ROR talking about your ex-husband and his cheating on you. Are those really consumer issues? If not, why are you attacking ROR for allowing the exact content you posted on there yourself? '
Nice dodge and character assassination attempt there. Smitty admitted those actions were a heat of the moment bad decision and that he regretted them. That still has no bearing on the fact that a site for business based complaints allows people to post unsubstantiated claims against anyone they wish to. Though i'm willing to bet if I were to try to post something about you or Ed right now it would not end up on the site. Hmm....I wonder why that is....
'Sure, this might not be 100% as good as taking the comments down completely, but it should be good enough for most purposes.'
Good enough for most purposes? Define 'most purposes' as you imply that it is not good enough. Who are you to decided what is or is not 'good enough' in regards to a person being able to defend themselves against slander?
'Look – I work for ROR and I have NO clue whether rebuttals make any difference in how our pages are ranked.'
Then why are you trying to tell people on here that you think the programmers at Google implemented things in such a way that pages would not be ranked higher based on the number of times they are accessed and posts are made to them? In fact they are. And it makes perfect sense to have it setup that way. Because the more people access a particular site the more popular it becomes and the higher it goes up in the rankings. The search engine is programmed to do just this very thing. and logically so. and before you tell me I don't know what i'm talking about I will say right now that I myself am a programmer and I happen to be speaking to one of the programmers at google while i'm writing this. He also happened to develop an older online game that i've played for a few years and we happened to be discussing his new purchase of it while I was writing this. If you don't believe such a person exists feel free to check Google employment records: his last name is Kirmse.
' My feeling is that Google is a damn smart group of folks and they have designed their algorithms in such a way that obvious trickery is completely disregarded.'
You know nothing about programming then. I can not think of any program that has ever been written where such 'obvious trickery' can be worked out. Programming is alot more complicated than you seem to think. and incidently the page ranking system is not trickery, its actually very logical. Its just the fact that it is being abused by ROR that is the problem.
'Plus, even if posting a rebuttal caused a Ripoff Report page to rank higher in Google, I still don’t think that’s a reason to leave a complaint unanswered. As someone who has read more than my share of these things, I will tell you that I have seen some EXTREMELY well-done rebuttals.'
It sounds like a good reason to leave it unanswered to me. Update the post by answering it and that only keeps the search engine listing updated and higher up. Which is what people here are trying to tell you. and so what if some rebuttals are extremely well done? Good for them. MOST are not. and MOST will cause more harm than good. Many people will not care what a rebuttal says something that claims to disprove the original claim. They just see something bad said about someone and the person trying to talk their way out of it. Let me put it this way: if you wanted to hire a babysitter for your kid and you came across an ROR post claiming that the babysitter was a pervert or something of that nature, with a rebuttal claiming the person was innocent...would you still hire said babysitter and leave your kid alone with them? I know I wouldn't.
'Actually – one final comment about your situation – we CAN and sometimes DO redact home addresses from reports when the facts make it clearly appropriate to do so.'
Sometimes do? You have no right under any circumstances to be allowing people to post HOME ADDRESSES for anyone on ROR. No matter what they are accused of. If you allow someones address to be posted and some nut sees it and goes to the persons house and harms them I guarantee you WILL be held legally responsible for that situation occuring. The only thing you do by this is put them in harm. So how do you justify doing it? What legitimate reason could you possibly have to be posting peoples home addresses on your site? Name the reasons.
'I gave you my email address and if you wanted to verify who I am, all you need to do is send me an email.'
Or you could just PM that information on here instead of having him email you. Why the insistance on email communication unless you really are trying to get information out of people?
'P.S. I note that although you keep calling me a "fraud" and a "rat", you have not bothered to send me an email which, if you did, I would respond to with my contact info proving that I am who I say I am. '
Again why do you need to have people email you to get this information? If anyone can email you and get it then there is no reason not to post it here for all to see. Or you could PM with said info. Your actions are very suspicious. Thats the kind of thing hackers do to find out peoples IP address or paypal account number.
'You STILL didn't answer my question -- when did I say that ROR doesn't change reports?'
You didn't have to. ROR website claims this. You claimed that ROR doesn't do anything illegal. Altering a persons post on any site without their knowledge and consent is in violation of several copyright laws. As a lawyer you yourself should be very much aware of this.
'the judges agreed that this does NOT affect our CDA immunity in any way'
Yes it does. In fact the CDA and federal law both specifically state it does. In order to have CDA protection a persons post must be THEIR POST. Not altered in any way. Therein raises another question: WHY are any posts being edited exactly?
Your own words make you sound alot like one of those shady, manipulative mafia lawyers that tries to pull every little trick to win an argument. The only problem is you aren't winning here.
Rhodes,
You make some good points here, sort of. I know you want me to answer questions such as “who owns Xcentric Ventures”, but as I said, this just isn’t relevant and it’s a waste of time for you and ok120 to keep repeating this. Why don’t you send me your bank account # and password…is that relevant? If you really want to know who owns Xcentric, try calling the Arizona Corporation Commission where Xcentric was incorporated; their website is https://www.cc.state.az.us/ and their phone number is: (800) 222-7000. I’m sure they will be happy to help. Alternatively, email Sarah Bird and ask her. She has clearly done a lot of homework on Ripoff Report, so surely she must know.
Now, as for the rest of your comments, let me try to answer the ones that aren’t just purely rhetorical…
Why are Xcentric’s servers located in Turkey? Of course, I have already said 10 times that they are NOT located there, but assuming they were, I have to finally cave in to the pressure and admit the truth – we put them in Turkey to protect them from YOU, Rhodes85. YOU! Whew! I feel so much better getting that off my chest finally!
Now, can we talk about stuff that REALLY matters? I’ll grab a few of your comments that I think merit an answer and give my response to each –
RHODES’ REMARKS:
“You sir are a liar. ROR is NOT a message board. On a message board posts are made to the board automatically and can be edited and removed at the authors discretion.”
RESPONSE:
I’m not a liar, Rhodes85. Except for the answer I gave about our reasons for putting the servers in Turkey (where they aren’t), everything else I said here is either 100% factually true or 100% my honest opinion.
Now, as for YOUR opinion that ROR isn’t like a message board, maybe ROR isn’t the exact type of message board that you would choose to create if you were brave enough to create one, but that does not change the fact that the Ripoff Report is a public BOARD where people post MESSAGES. Hence I think it is fair to say it is a “message board” as most folks would understand that term. As for the policies and rules of our board, we do not hide these from anyone; everyone who uses the site is permitted and expected to read them before they sign up. You don’t have to like them nor do you have to live with them. Just don’t post on ROR and you’ll be free to create any rules as you see fit.
RHODES’ REMARKS:
“Federal law requires, repeat REQUIRES you to remove them at the authors request. This has nothing to do with the CDA, it is about copyright law - federal and international. I also noticed you didn't say a single word in reference to my having brought up the copyright aspects. You think people will not notice it if you don't bring it up? If outright avoiding things didn't work for my ex its certainly not going to work here for you.”
RESPONSE:
Now we’re getting somewhere – this is actually a good point you’re making. But if you are right, how come not one single copyright infringement lawsuit has ever been brought against ROR? People have been amazingly creative when suing us (one person even claimed that Ripoff Report was a “defective product”), so why don’t you think anyone has thought to use copyright law?
Let’s go even farther and really analyze your example – let’s say you’re right and that anyone who posts something on ROR which we refuse to remove actually has the legal right under copyright law to have their post removed. If that was true, then any time we refused to remove a report at the author’s request, the author would be able to sue us for copyright infringement, right? Indeed, as a person who knows about copyright law, you surely must know that pursuant to 17 U.S.C. § 504(c) a court can award statutory damages of up to $150,000 for willful copyright infringement.
So, now that we’ve got that straight why don’t you try this route – post something on ROR and then ask us to remove it. If we don’t, then go ahead and sue us for copyright infringement. According to your theory, this should be an open-and-shut case and you could receive a judgment of as much as $150,000. That would be great, right?
Wrong. Why? Simple. Look at Section 6 of our Terms of Service. That provision grants ROR a license (read: permission to display) for each of the reports posted on our site. Of course, use of a work pursuant to a license is NOT copyright infringement, so ROR is not infringing anyone’s copyrights.
Aw, snap! Foiled again! That must mean that ROR is even more horrible than before….tricking our poor users into not reading our written Terms of Service which grant us a license to display their posts (which, bearing in mind, is EXACTLY what sites like YouTube, Facebook, and MySpace all do so that their users can’t post stuff on the site and then sue the site for infringing the very stuff the user posted).
One other comment on this – have you ever been interviewed by the media? If so, you’ll know this – no matter what you say to a reporter, once you open your mouth your comments may end up being used in a story that gets circulated far and wide. Even if you later regret what you said, under no circumstances can you force a reporter or the newspaper to retract a story which includes your quote just because you changed your mind later. And, get this – that’s true even if you lied to the report and made up a false story about someone else who then sues you.
RHODES’ REMARKS:
“It is VERY simple to prove that the person that submitted the report is the same person asking to remove it. Its called checking their IP address.”
RESPONSE:
There are two problems with this.
One – most of the author takedown requests we get are NOT made via the website (as in an update from the author). Most of them are in emails and we have no way of tracking the email’s IP address and then comparing it with the IP of the author at the time they originally posted their report to make sure they matched.
Two – do you really think that there’s only one IP address per person on this planet, or that one IP address can never be shared by two or more people in the same house, office, etc? Seriously?
Even if an “author” does login and post a request for removal of their report using the same IP address, this does NOT mean that we’re dealing with the same PERSON who wrote the original report; it just means we’re dealing with someone attached to the same modem/router where that request came from.
Look, I’ll freely admit that most of the time a matching IP probably does confirm that we’re dealing with the same person. However, even if that’s true, we still do not know what the author’s reason is for making the retraction request. Have they been threatened? (probably) Bullied? (likely) Have they been paid? (maybe) Whatever the reason may be, our rules are simple, clear and plain – we don’t take down reports. Anyone who doesn’t like that rule has a 100% effective way around it – DON’T POST ON OUR SITE!
RHODES’ REMARKS:
“[W]hen a person if found guilty or not guilty [in court] it is via evidence (ie: PROOF) not hearsay (that you yourself just admitted could come from anyone at all) from random people on a website that may have a grudge or other reason to harm a persons character or their company.”
RESPONSE:
Stick to your IT job, Rhodes85, because your legal naiveté is starting to show. Do you really think courts are infallible and that every jury verdict is always correct? Do you know who Orenthal James Simpson is? As for suggesting that courts only convict people based on proof rather than hearsay, have you ever heard of Guantanamo Bay? In fact, while you’re at it please do some reading on two things – grand juries and felony preliminary hearings – and focus on the question of whether hearsay is admissible in those proceedings (it is).
You’ve been watching too much Law & Order. I never said that ROR was identical to a court. What I said was merely this – our policy against deleting records is the same policy that many courts have. People file bogus lawsuits against Ripoff Report all the time and even after we PROVE the claims are false, do the courts delete the records? Nope. Even after we win a case, all of the documents remain part of our public record, even if it’s proven the allegations against us are 100% false.
RHODES’ REMARKS:
“You know nothing about programming then.”
RESPONSE:
You are 100% correct, but that’s OK since I’m not a programmer.
RHODES’ REMARKS:
“Many people will not care what a rebuttal says something that claims to disprove the original claim. They just see something bad said about someone and the person trying to talk their way out of it.”
RESPONSE:
Wait a second – so you’re saying that people are lazy and that they only spend a moment skimming a website, believe only the bad and dismiss anything good, even when it’s all posted anonymously? Seriously, is that what you think? Even if you’re right, is that somehow our fault?
I recently saw a comment about this sort of thing and I thought it was really well-said – “The Internet is a means of communication, not a source of truth.”
Amen.
Maybe you’re right. Maybe people do believe every page they stumble across, but I highly doubt it. Do you always believe every word you see online? I don’t. Sure, when I am buying a new product I like to read the reviews from other users, but even if one or two people say a product is crap, that doesn’t automatically mean I won’t give it a try.
Look Rhodes85, businesses such as Wal-Mart have abysmal public relations problems and if you wanted to search for online complaints about them, you would need about 1,000,000 years to read through them all. According to your logic, the presence of a single Ripoff Report about Wal-Mart would bring them to a swift end. Of course, that’s nonsense.
To be fair, I get the fact that a small business may be closer to the edge of financial disaster than Wal-Mart, and while no one really cares about a single complaint against Wal-Mart, this could actually have a devastating effect on a small mom-and-pop operation. I have to concede this is a valid point.
Still, what do you propose we do about this? Ban all online complaints? Oh, wait!! I know what you’re going to say – we don’t have to ban all complaints, we just need to be sure to take down the false ones, right? But who is going to make that distinction? And what about reports which contain only opinions, not facts? (As I have previously said, opinions can’t be false). Are we going to start having courts issue nationwide injunctions against people who speak their minds but are complete jerks in the process? If so, you better hurry up and type quickly Rhodes...
RHODES’ REMARKS:
“You have no right under any circumstances to be allowing people to post HOME ADDRESSES for anyone on ROR. No matter what they are accused of. If you allow someones address to be posted and some nut sees it and goes to the persons house and harms them I guarantee you WILL be held legally responsible for that situation occuring. The only thing you do by this is put them in harm. So how do you justify doing it?.”
RESPONSE:
Rhodes85 – CALM DOWN! I already said that we DO REMOVE home addresses when they are brought to our attention. Yes, I know you think that we have some psychic ability to know what addresses in our 500,000++ reports are business addresses and which are home addresses and thus we should never allow the home addresses to get posted in the first place, but that’s just not reality. Again, if someone asks us to remove a home address from a report, WE WILL GLADLY REMOVE IT. Are you going to apologize now?
RHODES’ REMARKS:
“Or you could just PM that information on here instead of having him email you. Why the insistance on email communication unless you really are trying to get information out of people?”
RESPONSE:
Until you mentioned it, I didn’t know that SEOmoz had PMs. If you look back through this thread or if you look at my profile, you will notice that I am new here and have only been posting stuff for a couple of days (and only on this thread). I didn’t realize that PMing was an option, hence I didn’t mention it.
Look, just get over the paranoia. I don’t need to trick someone into emailing me to find out who they are. As I already said, I know Smitty’s real name and info, but out of respect for her I’m not going to disclose that here. As for anyone else, don’t forget – Ripoff Report has already sued SEOmoz and Sarah Bird. If ROR wanted to get your name or sue you or anyone else posting comment on here, we would simply issue a subpoena to SEOmoz to get your IP address, email, etc., and we would have that information. Of course, that is not what I am here for and I have no interest in suing you for speaking your mind.
RHODES’ REMARKS:
“when did I say that ROR doesn't change reports?'
You didn't have to. ROR website claims this. You claimed that ROR doesn't do anything illegal. Altering a persons post on any site without their knowledge and consent is in violation of several copyright laws. As a lawyer you yourself should be very much aware of this.”
RESPONSE:
Our website doesn’t say we never change reports. In fact, I just reviewed the “Want to Sue Ripoff Report” section and guess what it says there: “Ripoff Report DOES make changes to reports only in limited circumstances when necessary to remove material that violates our guidelines (i.e., child pornography, clear threats of violence, etc.) …”
Anyway, since when is editing content illegal? Can you elaborate on that statement?
RHODES’ REMARKS:
'the judges agreed that this does NOT affect our CDA immunity in any way'
Yes it does. In fact the CDA and federal law both specifically state it does. In order to have CDA protection a persons post must be THEIR POST. Not altered in any way. Therein raises another question: WHY are any posts being edited exactly?”
RESPONSE:
Wanna quote to me the law that you claim says that editing content affects our CDA immunity? Here, allow me to help you….as the Ninth Circuit explained in Fair Housing Council of San Fernando Valley v. Roommates.com, LLC, 521 F.3d 1157, 1169 (9th Cir. 2008):
“A website operator who edits user-created content-such as by correcting spelling, removing obscenity or trimming for length-retains his [CDA] immunity for any illegality in the user-created content, provided that the edits are unrelated to the illegality.”
Of course, the Roommates case is widely considered the LEAST protective CDA decision in the past 10 years, and if that case specifically says that editing IS permitted, what’s your basis for saying that “the CDA and federal law” don’t allow editing? Please explain….
See, I’m a patient person but this is what really gets my goat – you don’t like the law, so rather than disagreeing with it openly and honestly, you just lie to people about what the law really says. There’s no excuse for this Rhodes. You can say that John McCain might have made a better president than Obama; that much is debatable. But you can’t honestly say that editing a post has any effect on CDA immunity; it does not.
And to answer the last part of your question – “why are any posts being edited exactly” – the answer is, as I have already said – we have policies against certain types of material….profanity, pornography, threats of violence (basically all your favorite things). We “edit” posts by removing those things. Even if we wanted to “trim for length” that would be fine, too, but that’s not really something we do.
RHODES’ REMARKS:
“Your own words make you sound alot like one of those shady, manipulative mafia lawyers that tries to pull every little trick to win an argument. The only problem is you aren't winning here.”
RESPONSE:
I don’t know how you can say this when between you and me, only one of us is being honest and here’s a hint – it’s not you.
Having said that, I don’t think this is an argument that either side can “win”. You either agree with the law or you don’t. While I respect your right to dislike the law, I do not recognize your right to spread lies here to make your position appear more sympathetic than it actually is.
Now, since I don’t think my efforts to spread the truth are much appreciated, I’ll make this my final posting here….unless Smitty has any questions for me, which she’s welcome to send via email or PM….her choice.
~David
[email protected]
“A website operator who edits user-created content-such as by correcting spelling, removing obscenity or trimming for length-retains his [CDA] immunity for any illegality in the user-created content, provided that the edits are unrelated to the illegality.”
Why did you edit the post about Sergey Brin? It is not for any of those reasons.
You are not an attorney. No attorney for a legitimate company does not disclose their full name and other information.
ROR is a shell game - hiding behind an "unknown" owner, hiding their servers in an "unkown" location.
The State of Arizona will not disclose the owner of the LLC if you call them. You have go to be kidding.
"David" you really thought you would come into a hornet's nest - on a post in which you SUED the poster - and try to prove an idiotic point? You're the biggest hypocrite in the world.
Your game is to allow any comment anyone could possibly dream up on your website and protect them by not revealing the IP address and information of the poster. You gladly go after and sue or threaten anyone who speaks poorly about ROR that you can identify.
Further, you are an "attorney in hiding" which means you aren't really an attorney at all. You went to law school for this?
The fact of the matter is that you are a fraud. ROR is a complete fraud as it pretends to be a website "for the consumer", but allows comments that are anonymous, and therefore probably harmful and untrue in many cases.
It then shapes itself as an authority site to "expose ripoffs" - which, again, are untrue in many cases. ROR is clearly aware of the damage it does or can do, again as evidenced by Sergey Brin's post being changed and his name altered - BTW, NOT in compliance with the CDA laws.
ROR has been banned by Yahoo and MSN for these reasons.
ROR will fail as a business and has a business model which hinges on being highly ranked by Google and built around many, many anonymous and false reports and is built upon fraud.
I could only give one thumbs up. Wanted to do a hundred!
The ripoffreport.com and Magdeson are the focus of a documentary upon which I am currently researching.
I am interested in hearing from anyone who has had experience with the site or Magdeson, either positive or negative. We originally started this project last year, but paused to await the outcome of several suits against Magdeson.
Any information would be helpful. Please contact Pete at [email protected]
or connect with us on facebook:https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Rip-Off-Report/117604812152
or blogger:https://ripoffreportdoc.blogspot.com/
Thank you & e-mail sent.
Michelle
This is great news. This is exactly what needs to happen. In fact, perhaps contact the news channels and shows specializing in rip-offs - I'm sure they'd love to pick this up and promote it. Find a company with money to hire a publicist and you can really get some action on this story. The publicist can get it some traction and have it look professional. Great work!
Hi
I have tried unsuccessfully to reply since you posted and I did send you an email immediately.
I would love to participate. He has my stuff on there used in a personal way, not for consumer edification. Ed M. needs to be profiled honestly to be shown for what he is doing, REALLY doing, and perhaps then someone who sees it will finally get it and stop this mess.
Lives are being ruined, people cannot make a living. He is extorting money. What else can one say?
'Why are Xcentric’s servers located in Turkey? Of course, I have already said 10 times that they are NOT located there, but assuming they were, I have to finally cave in to the pressure and admit the truth – we put them in Turkey to protect them from YOU, Rhodes85. YOU! Whew! I feel so much better getting that off my chest finally! '
First off the sarcasm makes you sound like an idiot. I seriously hope you don't do that in court. That aside IF the servers are not located in turkey (how come there seems to be evidence to the contrary...? No matter i'll run an IP trace sometime tomorrow) There is nothing to say ROR could not use a proxy to make it look like they were - a common tactic to avoid people getting reported to webhosts.
'Now, as for YOUR opinion that ROR isn’t like a message board, maybe ROR isn’t the exact type of message board that you would choose to create if you were brave enough to create one'
Actually I run several message boards. That aside it is not an opinion. ROR is not a PHP MySQL based forum software system and therefore does not fall under the definition of a message board. It is simply a website where a person can submit a report to staff, have it reviewed and posted. Message boards do not require intervention by staff and as I said the author has control over their own post.
'how come not one single copyright infringement lawsuit has ever been brought against ROR? People have been amazingly creative when suing us (one person even claimed that Ripoff Report was a “defective product”), so why don’t you think anyone has thought to use copyright law?'
Why haven't they? You would have to ask them why not.
'
So, now that we’ve got that straight why don’t you try this route – post something on ROR and then ask us to remove it. If we don’t, then go ahead and sue us for copyright infringement. According to your theory, this should be an open-and-shut case and you could receive a judgment of as much as $150,000. That would be great, right?
Wrong. Why? Simple. Look at Section 6 of our Terms of Service. That provision grants ROR a license (read: permission to display) for each of the reports posted on our site. Of course, use of a work pursuant to a license is NOT copyright infringement, so ROR is not infringing anyone’s copyrights.'
First it is not the money, it is the act of having it removed that is important. Second, regardless of how open and shut ANY case may appear, the opposing side always tries to find a way around it and thus it is never simple. You still need money and a lawyer to do it. Now as for the terms of service agreement....In reality just because you 'agree' to a TOS agreement does NOT mean it is enforcable, nor valid. MANY companies have had problems with this. SecondLife, Facebook, OSI, PayPal and dozens of others. Just because its in a 'contract' does not make it legal. Do the terms 'unlawful contract' and 'unconscionable clause' ring any bells? Clauses in any contract can be invalidated if they are deemed unlawful. PayPal found this out the hard way, as have many others. I have seen websites that had TOS agreements stating that the person could be 'sued for $1000' for 'making an unreasonable request' which would be decided 'at the website staffs discretion' Now do you really think that would hold up in court? I don't. Not for a second.
'is EXACTLY what sites like YouTube, Facebook, and MySpace all do so that their users can’t post stuff on the site and then sue the site for infringing the very stuff the user posted).'
You mean like the time Facebook was sued (and Facebook lost) because its TOS agreement stated that a user could deactivate but not delete their account permanently? Don't put too much faith in such TOS agreements.
'One other comment on this – have you ever been interviewed by the media? If so, you’ll know this – no matter what you say to a reporter, once you open your mouth your comments may end up being used in a story that gets circulated far and wide.'
Yes I have. and I am aware of that. However the media in question is not a website, things said to the media cannot be removed as they can on a website. That being said if the media tries to alter anything you told them they can also be prosecuted.
'One – most of the author takedown requests we get are NOT made via the website (as in an update from the author). Most of them are in emails and we have no way of tracking the email’s IP address and then comparing it with the IP of the author at the time they originally posted their report to make sure they matched.'
Yes you do. The email has a header file. That header file contains the IP address of the person sending the message. The person submitting anything via the website must have their IP recorded somewhere - and if you are going to claim the site is actually a message board (which it isn't) you would have to admit that it does record them (all submission based sites record IPs anyway) because all message boards have that function. I know how IP tracing works, I know how networks work, you can't tell me you have no way of positively identifying who is sending you messages.
'Two – do you really think that there’s only one IP address per person on this planet, or that one IP address can never be shared by two or more people in the same house, office, etc? Seriously?'
One IP address per computer, you can try rerouting it through a router, through a proxy, masking it or half a dozen other things but each computer only has a single IP address. highspeed connections are static, their IP does not change unless you cancel your account and get a new one. Dialup accounts have the first three sectors of the IP static and the last two drift and are different each time you logon. However both are easily tracable.
'Even if an “author” does login and post a request for removal of their report using the same IP address, this does NOT mean that we’re dealing with the same PERSON who wrote the original report; it just means we’re dealing with someone attached to the same modem/router where that request came from. '
Thats getting a tad paranoid. Using that logic how do you know anyone who ever contacts you via email is really who they claim to be. Unless someone really really really has it out for a person you're being unnecessarily paranoid.
'Look, I’ll freely admit that most of the time a matching IP probably does confirm that we’re dealing with the same person. However, even if that’s true, we still do not know what the author’s reason is for making the retraction request. Have they been threatened? (probably) Bullied? (likely) Have they been paid? (maybe) Whatever the reason may be, our rules are simple, clear and plain – we don’t take down reports. Anyone who doesn’t like that rule has a 100% effective way around it – DON’T POST ON OUR SITE!'
You are making some very serious assumptions there. It really isn't any of your business why a person would ask to have a post removed. (gee...maybe the company they posted about fixed everything and isn't as bad as they thought too....) I seriously doubt that companies are threatening their customers to remove negative posts about them.
'Stick to your IT job, Rhodes85, because your legal naiveté is starting to show. Do you really think courts are infallible and that every jury verdict is always correct? Do you know who Orenthal James Simpson is? As for suggesting that courts only convict people based on proof rather than hearsay, have you ever heard of Guantanamo Bay? In fact, while you’re at it please do some reading on two things – grand juries and felony preliminary hearings – and focus on the question of whether hearsay is admissible in those proceedings (it is). '
My job isn't IT. I run a company that develops commercial grade online games. Among other things. No, of courts are not infallable. OJ and Gitmo are not good examples of hearsay. There are alot of reasons things went the way they did with OJ - not the least of which was the fact that nobody on the jury really understood what the DNA evidence meant (remember it was a fairly new field and very few members of the general public knew much about it) and the defense used that to their advantage. And don't even get me started on Gitmo. That violates so many laws and conventions it would take an entire blog to go over. But I will say that Gitmo runs on the basis of MILITARY law. NOT civilian. That is a major difference in itself. But the point i'm trying to make with that statement was not that ROR is not a court of law and has no reason to base their actions or policies of a court of law. And incidently hearsay may be admissible in a grand jury and a felony perliminary hearing but that is not the actual court proceeding itself. It almost looks as if you tried to twist something around there.
'Wait a second – so you’re saying that people are lazy and that they only spend a moment skimming a website, believe only the bad and dismiss anything good, even when it’s all posted anonymously? Seriously, is that what you think? Even if you’re right, is that somehow our fault?'
No its not what I think. My point was that it is human nature to see something like that and generally think the worst. Or at the very least it casts doubt in their minds - regardless of what any rebuttal might say. Take the babysitter example I mentioned: In such a situation would there not be some doubt in your mind that the babysitter in question was in fact a pervert, regardless of what he or she might have said in their defense? I know it would be crossing my mind.
'Still, what do you propose we do about this? Ban all online complaints? Oh, wait!! I know what you’re going to say – we don’t have to ban all complaints, we just need to be sure to take down the false ones, right?'
No. I propose being reasonable. If a person has proof that such a claim is false and can provide that proof then there is no reason to keep that complaint up. There is also no need to have personal reports on such a site (you don't see people bitching out their wives on the BBB site do you?)
'Rhodes85 – CALM DOWN! I already said that we DO REMOVE home addresses when they are brought to our attention. Yes, I know you think that we have some psychic ability to know what addresses in our 500,000++ reports are business addresses and which are home addresses and thus we should never allow the home addresses to get posted in the first place, but that’s just not reality. Again, if someone asks us to remove a home address from a report, WE WILL GLADLY REMOVE IT. Are you going to apologize now?'
If you do when they are brought to your attention that is really not good enough. I doubt it would be for a court either. If you are either unable or unwilling to do what it takes to prevent such things from getting oto the site than don't run the site in the first place. Nobody says you have to run it. It is your responsibility to ensure that such info does not make it to the site.
'Look, just get over the paranoia. I don’t need to trick someone into emailing me to find out who they are. As I already said, I know Smitty’s real name and info, but out of respect for her I’m not going to disclose that here. As for anyone else, don’t forget – Ripoff Report has already sued SEOmoz and Sarah Bird. If ROR wanted to get your name or sue you or anyone else posting comment on here, we would simply issue a subpoena to SEOmoz to get your IP address, email, etc., and we would have that information. Of course, that is not what I am here for and I have no interest in suing you for speaking your mind.'
Yes you have sued Sarah and SEOmoz - and it doesn't look like it has been very successful to me. I am well aware a subpoena is all that is required to get such information. That doesn't mean there wasn't a less than legit reason for wanting people to email you. I'll concede the PM thing but something still sounds a bit iffy about that. Incidently as far as suing me goes.....That would be unwise, as I have pro bono access to a *very* good lawyer via a very good friends family. You wouldn't want that fight. and besides, you have no reason to do so anyway.
'Our website doesn’t say we never change reports. In fact, I just reviewed the “Want to Sue Ripoff Report” section and guess what it says there: “Ripoff Report DOES make changes to reports only in limited circumstances when necessary to remove material that violates our guidelines (i.e., child pornography, clear threats of violence, etc.) …”'
First, i'm not referring to removing such things as child porn. That should be automatic. I am referring to such things as editing reports content in ways that do not not involve removing violations of rules/threatening messages/etc.. Removing tos violations, porn and all that other stuff is not the same thing. and you know it.
'A website operator who edits user-created content-such as by correcting spelling, removing obscenity or trimming for length-retains his [CDA] immunity for any illegality in the user-created content, provided that the edits are unrelated to the illegality.”'
correcting spelling is not changing the meaning or intent of the message. Nor is it editing the message to suit any potential agenda the site may have. For example the sentence 'mary is not a slut' if edited to remove text so that it reads 'mary is a slut' clearly would change the meaning and thus breach a sites protection under the CDA. As would tailoring it to make a person look worse than the original message implied they were.
'See, I’m a patient person but this is what really gets my goat – you don’t like the law, so rather than disagreeing with it openly and honestly, you just lie to people about what the law really says.'
I'm not lying about anything. There are plenty of holes in the CDAs supposed protection. No protection is absolute. and you are aware that people were posting things on the internet long before the CDA came into effect right?
'But you can’t honestly say that editing a post has any effect on CDA immunity; it does not.'
Again that depends what you are editing. I'm not talking about a spelling mistake here.
'Why did you edit the post about Sergey Brin? It is not for any of those reasons.'
Again like he said you better answer that because it DOES violate the CDA protection.
Now I think that covers everything for the timebeing. If I missed anything its because i'm writing this at 4am and will address anything I might have missed in the morning.
"pro bono access to a *very* good lawyer via a very good friends family"
I hope you use it - on the offensive. This ROR fiasco needs to end. ROR and its fake attorney seems to have opened a lot of holes for itself to be taken down by posting on this thread, for more pissed off people and companies to find..
My biggest problem with ROR is that they will not respect the poster's wishes. We had a disgruntled customer that hastily posted inaccurate information about the transaction. We reconciled and he agreed to take down all postings. We have had no problem removing postings from other sites similar to ROR. However ROR will not remove the posting even at the poster's direction. What makes me more upset is that ROR says they keep the postings up forever under the pretext that this benefits everyone when in the end, it is only benefiting ROR by adding more advertising revenue to their pocket books.
I would absolutely love to join a class action lawsuit against them. I hope if this happens soon. It is amazing how ROR can sit back and profit off the clear defamation going on.
Absolutely!!! They site that the posting party may have been "coerced" by the entity they posted about. They cannot allow people to be bullied into asking to have the thing they posted removed.
Other reputable sites similar to this one does remove posts when they are contacted and it is proven that the post is bogus, not real, too. If you have something put on a site about you, a personal defamation, and you contact the site owner and show that it is a lie, and deal with them, they will remove it. Not good old Ed. The other sites ARE there for the consumer, Ed is there for the revenue created by the postings, and because he is a jackass, imo. I have no idea why any consumer sites would allow personal postings anyway. Keep it to business. Could I put a report on the BBB about John Doe having an affair? It is all so shitty. Ed is so shitty.
The Pueblo something person contacted me again, but still is not saying who the lawyer is for this so called class action. While I am interested in working in and with a class action, I am still perplexed why an attorney that wants to represent a class action wants to be anon? They usually put ads in newspapers around the country, and ads on TV. Does anyone else have a comment on this?
Smitty, did you ever find out any contact information for scamfound or InfoBot? Our attorneys have filed a subpoena with Domains By Proxy to get the site owner's information since they do not reply to inquiries through the website and provide no contact information whatsoever. While I agree Ed is nothing more than a criminal, at least there is contact information on ROR.
No, I asked and was not told. I have no idea who it is. Sorry.
But you were able to get the posting removed or not? I plan on notifying all the advertisers of this site about the type of business they are engaged in.
Which site are you referring to, Scamfound or ROR?
Were you able to get the posting off Scamfound?
Has anyone noticed a difference in how Google is indexing ROR pages? I no longer see the ROR posting when I search my company name. I have complained to Google directly as we spends $100ks with them.
No, it was not removed, but it was marked as a bogus scam and the link to ROR was removed. I have not noticed a change for the good with Google, but for the bad. As I begged and begged both Google and ROR to remove my posts and to removed me from the search engine, they stepped the game up. I am not sure who upped the game but now, if you search for the ppl who I put the posts on there about you also get the posts that were put on there about me as well. In other words, I put true posts on there about my spouses mistresses, who were supposed to be my friends, who broke my heart, and they were not like nasty, but factual. I begged ROR to remove them, they would not. I did it at a bad time in my life under bad judgement. One of the "women" put three horrible posts regarding me in there, using my full name, street address and full info, with defamation that is not true. So, now when someone googles any of these women, either Google or ROR makes sure that the reports in my name come up as well. So I am screwed both ways and this did not start happening until I begged and pleaded with both ROR and Google to help me, gave them the circumstances, etc. These are NOT consumer issues. And, this is all my fault and I will pay forever. It makes me physically sick.
And again, the "attorney" fails to respond:
"In the example you gave, Ripoff Report decided to change Sergey Brin's name because it deemed that post to be a hoax. Of course, taking someone's name OUT of a report does not in any way compromise our CDA immunity unless that somehow changes the meaning of what was said in a significant way. Taking Sergey Brin's name out (or changing it to a fictional name) does not change the report's meaning, so it is a non-issue. I guess the fictional character could sue, but since there is no such person, I don't think this is very likely."
Of course changing the name compromises CDA immunity because it changes the PERSON involved in the story which CHANGES the meaning of what was being said. You're smart, right David? Passed the Bar? This is obvious.
You can't give a report about a hurricane and change it to an earthquake and say it means the same thing. You can't tell a story about a woman named Fran, change it to Oprah and say it means the same thing. The peeople are different and you're obviously full of shit.
Yes, of course, I also have "hoax" reports talking about the most random, rediculous things you could think of that are OBVIOUSLY false and written in broken language, etc. So "deem them as hoaxes" as well. They are OBVIOUSLY offensive. That's why people are so angry. So change them as well.
Instead, you try to extort money from people with a scam you call an "advocacy program".
And these are lies?:
- Have a shell company with no "person" that owns the business and you will not disclose an owner
- Are hiding servers offshore in Turkey
- You've been banned from MSN and Yahoo
- You wouldn't disclose your full name in this thread of comments until you were "outed" even though you're an "attorney"
- You have said you were no longer going to post, and still are.
What is your litmus test to "deem something a hoax" and change the names involved WITHOUT extorting the person or company involved?
Bottom line is you do not have CDA immunity when you changed Sergey Brin's name - it is easy to see, it does change the meaning of the entry, and you should be sued, taken off Google and eliminated.
And my prediction is one, if not all, of these things will happen.
Oddly curious. David seems to weigh in a great deal on issues where other attorneys will not, at least in a public forum like this. I mean this is Sarah Bird Esq. forum and she doesn't even jump into comment. You will find that to be usual I think, but for some reason David Gingras Esq seems to have impulse control issues which may have caused his problems back in 1999.
What has become clear to me in this thread is that he has been "invited by others" albeit surreptisiously, to make comments and he just can't help himself, which does not help his client and effectively may make him a witness.
David you seem to be in a mood to talk. Could you tell us who Paulette Griffith is?
In preparing for a bar complaint and civil suit against Rip Off Report and its law firm, I conducted an 1 1/2 hour interview with the personal assistant of Ed Magedson. This person has never been disclosed previously.
One of the assertions of this person was that he was told directly by Ed Magedson to Google my name several times a week and then click on the Rip Off Report post that was created about me by one of Ed Magedson's agents. He was told specifically not to go into Rip Off Report rather to go to Google and click on it.
I believe I read in past depositions Ed Magedson claimed he didn't know how Google rankings worked. Why then would one of his agents specifically do this?
It was also revealed by this employee that he was told to create email accounts with Yahoo etc so that Ed Magedson could use them to get into blogs and posts about his targets. Its all on tape.
In an earlier post in this blog, Rip Off Report claimed Ed Magedson is not in hiding. Why then did Jaburg & Wilk set up a Delaware LLC using that name on the deed of trust for the house Ed Magedson lives in? Why did David Bedore change the Xcentric Ventures statutory agent from John Goodson, to Peter Busnack? Peter Busnack is not in the statutory agent business. He runs a desert survival school on Reevis Moutain, a barely accessible area of Arizona.
This link will provide you with a glimps into the relationship between John Goodson and Peter Busnack.
https://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/peter-bigfoots-beautiful-self-reliance-school-faces-a-future-thats-far-from-secure/Content?oid=1088114
Perhaps the attorneys and SEO folks that read this post can enlighen me as to why these events occured?
It should be understood that immediately after turning over information to me, this now ex-employee was visited by the Mesa police over a complaint filed by Ed Magedson. Additionally lawyers from Jaburg & Wilk have been diligently working on reaching out to him. What's all the fuss about?
Let me be clear, this ex-employee will be discredited by Jaburg & Wilk but they won't be able to explain away the evadence that comes from his statements. Why will he be discredited? Because he is on Arizona's Sex Offenders website for molesting a child and was released from prison a year ago. A 5 time felon that spent the last 7 years in prison. If he is so bad why even hire him in the first place unless his resume mentioned above is what you look for in an employee? I don't mention his name because he has enough challanges to get over. If not provided an opportunity to get past his past, he will certainly become part of the recitism rate of returning to prison.
There is a whole lot more to this then I have disclosed. Let's watch and see how they react, its is generally pretty predictable.
Jaburg & Wilk filed suit against me alledging several different things. The law suit closely mirrored the complaint they filed with The Department of Public Safety. DPS found no merit to the complaint. Judge Grant in Maricopa County Superior Court dismissed their case after 2 1/2 years of harrassment by them. The ex-employee admitted it was just to get money from my insurance company. Sounds right since they didn't even bother to get the disclosures, one of which was the video, prior to demanding my insurance company take part in a mediation. it wa san oh damn moment when they finally got those disclosures.
I am told by legal counsel in other suits that Jaburg & Wilk attorneys are wanting them to provide evidence against me where none exists. What is remarkable about this is that David Gingras in a deposition tried to get the plaintiffs in another case to admit I had put them up to a law suit when in fact I had never even communicated with that plaintiff. It was part of a settlement negotiation to turn over evidence also. Why do they want to shut me up so badly?
When discussing me at deposition, David S Gingras told them that I claim to be a PI and also a law enforcement officer. If you look at one of my posts on Rip Off Report you will see that same claim. The author of that post told me a long time ago that Ed Magedson had told him he had me on recording telling him I was a law enforcement officer. That person then went into Rip Off Report and posted the information. That assertion is not true and there is no tape of me claiming to be law enforcement, Magedson suckered him into doing his dirty work. Maybe it was just his general defense that he is paranoid.
They also like to throw a wide net claiming that people are conspiring against them. I have been linked to people I don't even know and have never spoken to, at least till that claim is made. Whats ironic about this is that people who would generally never meet or speak are thrown together by the very false assertions Rip Off Report and their law firm makes. People with nothing in common suddenly unite.
I would be wrong not to point out that Rip Off Report has publicly disavowed a video interview of two people that alledge Ed Magedson was trying to shake them down on what is called, The Put Put Video. In his rant on Rip Off Report and other sites, Ed Magedson has written scurrrilous items about the two people in the interview, witnesses that had their names mentioned and posted when I took great pains to protect them from that very thing.
After the video went to Youtube, private investigators started harrassing one of the interviewed parties telling him he had better change his story. The young woman in the video was painted as a liar by Maria Crimi Speth. Oddly this same young woman was a previous client of Maria Crimi Speth. She was going to be a litigant in a failed class action bid. I scratch my head on a couple of issues. If an attorney is going to represent her or use her testimony, she has to presume she is going to give an honest account. At what point did this young woman become a liar? When she made damaging statements about the fatted cow Maria Crimi Speth brought into Jaburg & Wilk?
In his rant Ed Magedson claimed he was told by his investigators that the video was doctored, rehersed and had several takes to get it right. Maria Crimi Speth deposed her own client, the young woman in the tape and discovered that in fact it was not. That the events seen on the video were shot one time with no rehersal or suggestions. I didn't even know the father was going to be there. There is a codec on the video, a time date stamp that is continuous.
This isn't a leval playing field folks. Legal counsel for Xcentric Ventures has his own issues that could prove to be embarressing. I have known about it for years but have chosen not to bring it to public's attention because while he and Ben Quail's moral compass may be broken, I presume he has parents who would be mortified at seeing the past brought out. I also don't second guess the courts. You will not see the same courtesy from them.
You want some of me? Bring it. I have a whole lot more I can throw out here.
The true story and possible conspiracy theory against Ed Magedson founder of Ripoffreport.com, of how John F. Brewington, lied in tandem with Shawn Richeson, Lisa Brodkin LA, CA. attorney Asia Economics Institute owned/operated by Raymond Mobrez and Ilianna Llaneras. Lied and falsified information through attempted bribery and coercion incorporated with all manner of trickery.
My name is James P Rogers. I was the Personal Assistant to the Editor- and founder www.Ripoffeport.com , (a popular consumer advocacy website). I am also the one that was taken advantage of, by both John F Brewington of Paladin P.I, which is also Paladin Investigations, who used Shawn Richeson AKA Shawn A Richeson of clickAnerds.com AKA computerNerds.com. There are an additional three more persons/individuals’ is which consist of, an attorney, (first introduced to me, by Brewington), in Los Angeles, California, by the name of Lisa Brodkin. Lisa Brodkin, represents two clients whose names are Illiana Llaneras and Raymond Mobrez and together they own and operate this business “Asia Economics”, which I have discovered through many rumors/opinions,(most them coming from John F. Brewington and Shawn Richeson) that simply put say they were laundering money for the Russian Mob. You be judge here. Just an opinion coming from a person who has listened to them all brag about getting away almost with it all. More about that later. I am telling my side and it is by no means a pretty tale but it will be the truth albeit, from a person who has nothing to gain by lying. So read below and gain a better understanding of the lengths that un-honest people will go to, to keep their illegal activities going.
This is my story, of how and why I came to be used by , John F Brewington, Shawn Richeson, Lisa Brodkin and Asia Economics, who were attempting to further fuel their misguided fanatical obsession, of going after ED Magedson founder of www.ripoffreport.com and is going to be a long one.
In the starting/telling of this, (event /story) I must immediately, bring out a truthful fact. Which is both John F Brewington and Shawn Richeson are both convicted felons. Yes, I myself am also We, (everyone of us), all have a past, “that we learned,(or did not learn), from.” I will get into more detail regarding this topic and others but, to gain a better understanding of what, (in my personal opinion), exactly started/made it necessary for this story to be told in, its fullness and entirety. A full ,(unchanged or edited) accounting will, “I feel” be unobtainable, let alone even offered, and I will so continue to name, John F. Brewington, Shawn Richeson, Raymond Mobrez & Illiana Llaneras, and their Attorney Lisa Brodkin as the story unravels below...
Before reading my story below, Take a look at this editorial Report that ED Magedson did about the Putt Putt Video. John F. Brewington would not allow ED Magedson or anyone else to post anything to claims he made on the bogus youtube video. Read the report and you be the judge. Report # 526430 or simply follow the this link, https://www.ripoffreport.com/internet/john-f-brewington-pa/john-f-brewington-paladin-inv-d9a79.htm
There things I doubt or have little to no faith in but, this self made youtube video entitled: Putt,Putt Video that John F. Brewington /Paladin PI. , created about ED Magedson/ripoffreport.com, accepting/taking money from a car dealer to remove ripoffrreports’ about them for $500 is false. When you read what he did to me and how he tried to get me to lie (while I was under the influence of a narcotic, methylphenidate, aka (Crystal Meth) and falsify information. I have John F. Brewington on tape, admitting that he knew, ( I was influenced by a narcotic and, not able to discern reality or real thought) that I was susceptible to be coerced in his plotted lies. In further reading my story, you will understand what a twisted and calculating/manipulative coward John F Brewington is. Not to mention, in my opinion, from my personal dealings with this man, he, John F Brewington is a sick twisted, fearfully in-closeted homosexual, (possible gay), himself. . I see why he has his so called offers to help people find their children. For the record, right up front, I am bi-sexual. John Brewington puts the moves on me. More on that and all about me (my full disclosure) in my story below.
Also, the Reports about Shawn Richeson a long time ago were checked out and the people who filed them were real – this was done by ED for FREE years ago. Shawn Richeson admits in emails and in (I believe in a deposition) that he himself filed at least 1 of the Rip-off Reports against himself in an effort to let people think he has government contracts.
Also in my story below is Attorney Lisa Brodkin. She and her clients associated with, “Asia Economic Institute”, AEI, WorldEcon: Raymond Mobrez and Ilianna Llaneras worked with John F Brewington. Mr. Mobrez admitted in a deposition that he had in the past talked with John F Brewington. No surprise about the claims made about ED, just like the Putt Putt youtube video. Lisa Brodkin’s clients from Asia Economic Institute, AEI, and WorldEcon: Raymond Mobrez And Iliana Llaneras both got caught lying. OK, I should say, they changed their entire story after filing sworn affidavits’ and in deposition, swearing under oath with all kinds of papers filed with the courts under oath, both these people totally recanted their story about ED. In my opinion, this was another John F Brewington attempt to try and destroy one he the kindest, caring and generous people I Know, ED Magedson. Both Raymond Mobrez And IIlana Llaneras said that ED Magedson extorted them for money. The wife Illiana submitted detailed notes as she was eves dropping on the calls Mr. Raymond Mobrez made to ED Magedson. They completely re-enacted their story when ED had all the conversations tape-recorded that matched the exact dates and times as the Mobrez phone bill. More on this, in my story below...
Readers can decide for themselves who they want to believe, like everything else on the Internet. And as ED would say, ...”Same goes for your local newspaper or TV News Stations”.
Also, the Reports about Shawn Richeson a long time ago were checked out and the people who filed them were real – this was done by ED for FREE years ago. Shawn Richeson admits in emails and in (I believe in a deposition) that he himself filed at least 1 of the Rip-off Reports against himself in an effort to let people think he has government contracts.
Also in my story below is Attorney Lisa Brodkin ?? She and her clients Asia Economic Institute, AEI, WorldEcon: Raymond Mobrez And Iliana Llaneras worked with John F Brewington. Mr Mobrae admitted in a deposition that he had in the past talked with John F Brewington. No surprise about the claims made about ED, just like the Putt Putt youtube video. Lisa Brodkin’s clients from Asia Economic Institute, AEI, WorldEcon: Raymond Mobrez And Iliana Llaneras both got caught lieing. OK, I should say, they changed their entire story after filing sworn affidavits’ and in deposition, swearing under oath with all kinds of papers filed with the courts under oath, both these people totally recanted their story about ED. In my opinion, this was another John F Brewington attempt to try and destroy one he the kindest, caring and generous people I Know, ED Magedson. Both Raymond Mobrez And Iliana Llaneras said that ED Magedson extorted them for money. The wife Ilana submitted detailed notes as she was eves-dropping on the calls Mr Mobrez made to ED Magedson. They completely reacted their story when ED had all the conversations tape recorded that matched the exact dates and times as the Mobrez phone bill. More on this in my story below.
Readers can decide for themselves who they want to believe, like everything else on the Internet. And as ED would say, ..same goes for your local newspaper or TV News Stations.
MY SIDE OF THE STORY YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD FROM JOHN BREWINGTON / PALADIN PI or SHAWN RICHESON of CLICK A NERD aka COMPUTER NERDS:
I was ED Magedson’s personal assistance for about the first 8 months of 2010.
Previously, about 8 years prior, ED and I were dating. Yes, Dating.
Then, ED and I kind of drifted apart because I fell into drugs. Crystal meth-anfedimene
ED won’t even spoke pot, he says that was a thing for him in the 70’s.. and to get him to have a drink, that will only happen over dinner.
It should also be known, that while I was working for ED, he help me go thru collage business courses. ED supported me mentally and gave me a great place to say while assisting him best I could, letting me do my school work. I padded with A’s and a few B’s???? And thanks to ED, ??????????
Mr Brewington sot me out by coming to my parents home in Mesa Arizona on or about in April of 2010 asking me if would be willing to give up info on ED Magedson to please call him. This was right after I fell off the wagon, so I did not let ED know about John Brewington’s visit to me. I had noticed his older big white pickup. John Brewington told me I could make thousands of dollars. When I repeated it to him and said, “I could make thousands of dollars” John Brewington responded with, “actually, you can make tens of thousands of dollars for the right information about ED” . He said he wanted me to talk with an attorney in Los Angeles, California, that they would pay me thousands for good information about ED. John Brewington said he already knew where ED lived that he did not need that info. I told Brewington that I was not interested and walked away from him. Truthfully, I wanted to take him up on his offer because I needed more money, money for my crystal meth habit.
About 2 months later, while on a crystal-meth binge, I needed money bad. I went looking for Brewington’s number. I could not find it so I went onto the Internet and ?????? emailed him/ called him????
So, our conversations stated – most of which I recorded. More than likely before Brewington started recording.
??????????????????
?????????????????
Brewington first wanted me to talk with Shawn Richeson. Brewington said he did not want ED’s address to be given to him by me, he wanted me to give that info to Shawn Richeson who would pay me money for information. Brewington also said ???????????
Brewington kept urging me to tell Richeson about any sexual encounters I had with ED. The more good stuff I would give to Richeson, the more money I would get from both Richeson and Brewington. Brewington promised if I would press charges against ED for sexual harassment that I would be rewarded in a big way. Through our different conversations as I will explain later in this story, Brewington was interested in me making up anything I can about sexual things ED did wrong. For the record, there was never anything ED did that was inproper – I kept telling Brewington that, but he kept on pressing every time he was on the phone with me and in person. That story below.
John Brewington also ??????????????????
So, Brewington ended up giving my phone # to Richeson. Shawn Richeson of ComputerNerds AKA clickAnerd. In my opinion, this guy is a sick demented person. If you’ve read this story on Rip-off Report: #526430
https://www.ripoffreport.com/internet/john-f-brewington-pa/john-f-brewington-paladin-inv-d9a79.htm
(The only thing Report # 526430 leaves out, is, no one mentions that Brewington has a criminal record and as he bragged to me, he did prison time and or knows many people from prison that will do anything for him. I need to re listen to that tape for more details.)
Shawn Richeson during the taping ????????????????????????????????????
Shawn Richeson promised me $500 per phone call interview – there were at least 3.
Shawn Richeson also changed at least one tape he put on the internet. I have the same calls. Shawn Richeson did as he has admittedly done in the past to ED Magedson, he altered the tapes.
I taped almost all my calls with Shawn Richeson. Everyone of them. On one of the tapes Shawn Richeson brags about him porking the next door neighbor that comes over to do work for him.
Once Brewington said to me he wanted me to make up stories about ED maybe doing sexual impropritiries, John Brewington wanted me to lie and say that ED Magedson created ripoffreports. Maybe I was coming in and out of my drug induced stupe, something told me to tape all my calls. I was realizing what a scumbag Brewing is. Just wait, you haven’t heard the worst yet.
As soon as I gave my interview Richeson posted it onto the Internet when he promised me, ED would not know about this for many months! In less than 1 hour it was up on the Internet – Richeson never paid me a dime.
Now that I gave ED’s address (a previous address) to Richeson, both John Brewington and Shawn Richeson started posting it on the Internet. They both told me ED would not know about this for a long time to come. I was thinking in my head that this would give me time to get more out of ED. Yes, I was being evil.
Brewington even admitted that Russians wanted ED’s address to kill him. This was after I had the interview with Richeson. I started to worry. His continual push for me to go to police and get ED charged with sexual harassment, this was starting to sound ledicrious. I wanted to tell Brewington, you cannot rape the willing. NO such thing ever happened, I kept telling Brewintton this, but, he kept pusing. Both Brewington and Richeson knew I was doped up. I admittied it to both of them from the beginning, but they did not care. I saw an email from Richeson that notifired the ripoffreport attorneys that he had the tapes of me and he admits right in the email to the attorneys that he, Shawn Richeson knew that I, James P Rogers was all doped up. But he failed to leave out that he and Brewington both offered me thousands of dollars to make up stores about ED.
In all realaity I gave them nothing. An recently old address that ED was renting along with ???? a few made of comments that were all false.
IN recent court papters Richeson and Lisa take something I said about ED wanting me to create different email address to post on blogs to defend what people were saying about him and Rip-off Report. I told them, that never came about, I never did that. And what these liars turned it into was, they said I said I posted on ripoffreport.com ! that never happen once and I never said that. Even that attorney who heard the same tape said that in her filings with the court. I will get to Attorney Lisa Bordkin???? later in this story.
over about a 3 week period Richeson kept calling me – telling me he sent the money to me but he must had done something wrong. Shawn – I have have it all on tape.
About a week after I talked with Richeson, John Brewington of Paladin PI contacted me and said he wanted me to do an internever with him. We met at the Bill Johnson’s steak house in Mesa Arizona on Main Street.
Right up front on the tape, John F Brewington of Paladin PI / Paladin Investigations admits that we was paying me an undisclosed amount of money. I thought I was getting $5,000 plus the money that Shawn Richeson never paid to me but, all I got was $2,600. About 1 wekk later John Brewington came to my home. He acted wired. He brought me a cheap bike. He then took me to Wal-Mart to get me a computer. He had promised me a real lap-top because at the time, ED would not let me have the company laptop he was letting me use. So, when we went to Wal-Mart all I got was a cheap note book. This was not anything I could use even for collage. I realized more, this was more John F Brewington lies. There were several times I figured Brewington was recording me when he said, “You know, we can’t pay you for your testimony” !! I knew this guy was a creep and a big liar. OK, I know, I’m on crystal-meth and did prison time, I am not forgetting that. But, as we all k now, that does not mean I am not telling the truth. So, the next thing that happened that fairthfull day when John F Brewington / Paladin PI took me to Wal-Mart . Here, John was being all kind to me making it look like he was just helping me. He directs me to put the computer in my house and to come back out and talk with him in his truck. A truck by the way that smelled like ??????? When I get back into the truck, Brewingotn has his zipper open. He grabs my hand and aske me if I would give him a blow job! I said, Brewington, are you out of your mind? Do you think because I am gay or bi-sexual that I will just make it with anyone! He then said, “well, you have had all those encounters with ED” I pushed him away, I told him he was fucking out of his mind. I also told him that is where that stange oder comes from. I told him to take a damn shower and I got out of his truck and never herd from him again except for one text I got from him that said, “seize the day”
I know John Brewington has it in his mind that NO ONE WILL BELIEVE JAMES because he ‘s Paladin PI. Brewington is like the priest who molests his flock, or like the Senitor from Midwest??? That voted againt Gays and got caught by police playing footzies in the men’s room at the airport.
Brewington and Richeson, please bring it on. I am anxious to see what you have to say to everyone.
John Brewington also contacted Lisa Brodkin, the attorney for Asia Economics. Talk about dishonest lawyers.
Lisa at one point said to me (I have it on recording) for me to load up a suit case. Lisa was referring to ED’s personal documents that I can steal from ED and bring to her in Calirforna . Lisa and her clients had purchased me several plain tickets.
???????????????????? This goes with paragraph above????????????????
Anyone thinking of hireing John F Brewington, best to check with DPS first. From what I am told by a visitor several weeks ago, Brewington is not liked by DPS and anyone wanting to hire him should first ask for a copy of his file, his PI file. You will not want this guy to even investigate who might have gotten your dog pregnet let alone ask him to testify. Brewingotn also lies under oath.
Anytime I told John Brewington all the good things ED Magedson did, Brewington would always find some comment to say “weel ED is doing this” or ED must be doing that”. Each time I told him, no, that’s not the way it is. I kept telling Brewington as time went on (over a 2 to 4 week period) that everything thing he claims about ED, and the things he wants me to make up about ED are all false.
When I explained to John Brewington that other copy-cat websites like PissedConsumer.com and Complaintsboard, and about 3 others that have become popular, all took (scraped) content from ripoffreport.com . Some settled with ED our of court paying a lot of money, Complaintsboard.com paid a large judgment thru the California court system. Anyone can look things like that up, just Google Xcentric V. Complaintsboard. Brewington just said it was a lie, that ED must have lied about it.
I explained to Brewington about ED’s project (ED says his last project) to save all dogs in the USA from ever getting put to sleep because they have no home, John Brewington did not want to hear about it. This is an ambitious project that I helped ED with doing a detailed business plan. This involves ED taking over large closed down shopping centers and doing some very innovative and creative things that is sure to work. ED is going to put more than $4 million dollars of his own money into the project which will be a 501 3 (c) non-profit business/organization.
I also explained to Brewington on how ED arranged for an air-conditioner for my family. ED did this because my mom had cancer and for over 2 years all my family had was a swamp cooler. ED and I were not even in touch for over 3 years. ED would call my family to see how they were doing. ED got a member of the Corporate Advocacy Program to get him an air-conditioner for wholesale. ED then, with the help of one of his many lawyers got someone from the LDS church to install the brand new air-conditioning unit on my parents home. This is how ED is with, (not only people he knows), but with people he does not know.
I told Brewington about how ED champions the Day Labor workers and helps them for Free. ED realized back in 1990 that the workers coming here from Mexico and South America were being taken advantage of by many of the white businesses. These businesses would work them (mostly illegal) and not pay them after working them for the day, many were worked for a full week, then threatened at the end of the week, that if they said something, they would get them deported. Many would be dropped off many miles away from home, throwing their bike out of the pick up along with the worker. Go to this link and read about what ED wrote many years ago about this. This problem still persists today. RipOffReport # ?????????????????????
John Brewington has an obsession to get ED. To find anyone he can that is mad about a ripoffreport being filed against them and trying to get them to lie about ED, just like he did with me, paying me to lie. Coaching me before he records me so I would get paid. I am sure that is exactly what he did with the youtube putt putt video . All John Brewington cares about is to find a way to stop ED and ripoffreport.com. John Brewington would keep prodding me to go to police and claim sexual harassment. I told Brewington you cannot harass the willing and our relationship was never that way. If anything when we first met, I was the aggressor.
John Brewington bragged to me on how he helped bring down ripoffreport about 2 years ago with DDoS attacks and that ED must have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to prove that and he lost. That comment Brewington made to me was probable the only thing that was true. ED did lose that case when he sued Brewington. I do know that ED is appealing that case as the Judge in the case ignored the law and the hard evidence. Then Brewington said that ED sued him because he knew I carried a lot of insurance. I asked Brewington, how would ED know that you had insurance? I never got an answer. I do know that ED had no way of knowing John Brewington and Paladin PI, Paladin Investigations had insurance. I would imagine that was a pleasant surprise when ED and his lawyers found out.
While I was investigating what John Brewington and Shawn Richeson had put on the internet about me, double crossing me, I found out that John Brewington has about 3 maybe 5 different judgements, large judgements listed against him. I remember Brewington said that ED has judgements against him, I told him I know about that judgment from a country in the West Indies , the island of Nevis. ED was never notified there was any case there, he was never notified. That same company ended up coming to New Jersey and suing ED, and they did not win. I know that ED has never lost a case when he has been sued. ED Magedson should be complimented and celebrated for all the work and money he put into protecting our 1st amendment when using the Internet. I Know ED Magedson will go down in history as a great man who championed the less fortunate (way before he started ripoffreport.com) and how he has helped millions of people ?????????
John Brewington says his next target is closing down compalintsboard, one of the money companies that ripped off all the content from ripoffreport.com as I explained above. Brewington braggs that he is friends with them, but he does not trust them. Compalintsboard is owned by people out of Latvia, somewhere in Europe.
John F Brewington in my opinion is a very decieetful man. Evey bad thing he says about ED, he is really talking about himself. I am sure when John Brewinton sees this he will be busy blogging and saying how I am a 5 time felon and on drugs. No John Brewington, I am not anymore. Hopefully this time around I will not fall off the wagon. How DPS, Department of Public Safety in Wrizona gave John Brewington (a felon) a PI license is scary. As ED said many times, that someone like this is in our court rooms testifying under oath about cases he might investigate for people who will only become victims because he is a pathaological liar as I have seen fist had. Yes, I have my past. But I have ttied to be a better person. Not one of my crimes from the past has anything to do with stealking or hurting anyone. Well, I take that back. Once when I was on drugs and being arrested, the officer was using excestive force on me, so I was charged with assaulting an office. A common false claim made by officers, many to get paid leave like they were hrut in my opinn. But, my Felonies were never about hrurting anyone. John Brewingtons crimes are. Anyone can contact the ARican Department of Safty and get a copy of John F Brewinton / Paladin PI file. I have heard ED give good advise to anyone hiring a PI. Always find out what is in their file. If you need them to testify and give you any kind of report, you need to have a PI that has a clean background. Most PI’s are retired cops or military people from what I am told. John Brewington is a PI who kept writing to the DPS board and talked his way in. In my pwn person opinon, John Brewington is a dishonest con-man. Anyone who has experienced him over the many eyars, knows, he is a liar. He is also a closeted gay man who is not man enough to admit his sexuality. As I know first had from what he tried to do to me as I explained at the beginning of my story.
For the record. ED Magedson enfadicly said to me, I should not say anything about my experience with both John Brewington and Shwan Richeson. ED said, everyone usually ends of getting what they have coming to them. Carma.
??need good quote from ED) saying)
Again, read Report #526430
https://www.ripoffreport.com/internet/john-f-brewington-pa/john-f-brewington-paladin-inv-d9a79.htm
To all the others who are par of the I HATE ED club
OMG James, you make my brain hurt, I am sorry. I cannot read all of that. And, that style of writing, all the more later ons, and so forth, you and David Gingrich write very much alike. Except where he went to school they learned to spell much better. I am not trying to incite or throw barbs.
I do not hate Ed. There have been times through this stressful time in my life that I have had a lot of anger toward him, the site and all involved but more with myself that all of them combined. I am the one who posted, they are my words, my actual property, perse, and I cannot get them removed. They are also personal and not consumer related at all. This is the area that he needs to clean up.
To tell you the truth? I would rather be most anyone I can think of other than your kind and generous friend Ed. I cannot imagine what it must feel like to awaken every morning to so much stress and to always feel like you have to hide in one way or the other. Personally, it would not be worth all this to me. I am just hoping that one day it will not be worth it to him, or to whoever is really running the show. I pray every night for a surge catastrophe that wipes all the files out, along with all of the backup files. Perhaps that would force him/them to start over and then he/they can do things the correct manner. Karma is a bitch, I can attest to that. It is either one way or the other. It really does not matter if Raymond or anyone else is on the up and up, if they are a criminal, have a felony past or not. He has to deal with his own, as do I and you for that matter. This is not a campaign for political office where a smear has to be put out on everyone so that we can decide who has the worst character. As long as that site is ruining lives, is not changed, my vote is in. As I have repeated time and again, there are legitimate reports on there. But, the bad ones take the confidence away. And there gas always been a way to tell which are and which are not. IP addys. If the same ones are used over and over to file reports, it ain't rocket science. Yes, there are ways around it, but the ppl who create personas to post over and over do so in a way that you can tell. They tend to use the same phrases, the same buzz words. They have atyle and so it is.
If you were maligned, used and or treated poorly, and it is because you were altered by meth, well, dude put that shit down. How does anyone say you get a pass? Stay clean, get your self right. Don't do anything to hurt other ppl, at the bequest of anyone.
And as for the spelling, I am horrible. I cannot see well and I have a progressive neurological disease that has robbed me of some skills. And, let me say this. I did email David and ask him if I do die, they did find a brain tumor as well, with my obituary in your hands, will you remove the reports? Would that satisfy any of you? Or if I get a terminal diagnosis as I am going through tests now, if my doctor sends a formal letter, would your generous friend consider making the last of my time better? Remember, I wrote them, they are personal, and I regret them more than you will ever know. So, what do you say? Could you put in a good word for me? I sure would appreciate it.
The article published on Augist 23, 2010 regarding RIP OFF REPORTS "questionable operating procedures," in my opinion, is spot on.
I would strongly encourage everyone on this site to write your story to: [email protected]
Below, please read:
p://www.prweb.com/releases/business-ethics/rip-off-report/prweb4400374.htm
An Ebay seller who came under Federal investigation for mail fraud for hundreds of victims (if not thousands) was uncovered and had his true identity and his "enforcer" wannabe mobster friend pasted all over the web, while the Feds confiscated his computers and started in earnest to go after him. Meanwhile, he already knew who turned him in, so the families of those people have had their identities ravaged on Rip Off Report, not because they ever did business, sold this man anything, or had any connection except the criminal case, but because Ed and his little attorney David (now) don't believe the families who are victims. Ripoffreport has posted phones, email, addresses, and allowed postings to contain offensive passages which promoted the attack, abuse and assault of the famillies who reported the crimes. Originally, hundreds of websites had the information, but removed it when contacted. Even the director of Myspace security and other high profile executives understood what took place and cooperated by blocking any further posts, and removing ALL data, attacks, and other information permanently. Craig'slist actually began litigation against anyone impersonating others. And turned over all the IPs, names and information to us. Others cooperated in that manner to give us what they knew about the ring of criminals doing this. There are only three sites that have not cooperated. One is down to one single post which should be removed soon. Another has been looking into the post and should cooperate. Then there is Ripoffreport. Ed actually wrote back a couple of times over the past nearly three years to tell the victims to read his rules. Well, Ed, David, and anyone else at ROR. We don't really care about your rules. We have had a family member approached at her home by two men intent on beating and raping her. We have had numerous ads for sex with children posted directing people to our families. We have been called every name in the book and had imbalanced people call, write and come to our homes. And why? Because ROR has allowed this promotion to occur. For doing our civic duty. We have begged, appealed and tried to even participate in this insane "program" to have the passages removed. Instead, we are told nothing, and this activity continues. So to ROR and its owners and helpers and attorneys let me say this: Whatever happens to our families at this point, will be reflected back at you - God has a way of doing this. If someone shows up again at my house to attack my wife, or at a relatives, or a clients, then I know karma will cause it to happen to your family as well. The law has not done its job. And you sick people at ROR have helped to torture innocent people. We've referred you to a federal magistrate, court orders, search warrants, government officials, with all the case information and you still ignore our requests. You have caused us all the grief you are going to. Your fate is in your hands now. You can delete the postings, or endure what we have whenever it happens. Everyone online can find David at his home too. Just as easy as finding ours. So David, word of advice. I don't really give a C**$&*% that you are a lawyer. It is meaningless when you defend this kind of sickness. Whatever argument you have to support your client's rights ends when his actions and website allow personal attacks and even encourage them. It would be one thing if we ever engaged in commerce or had something we sold to someone, but that isn't even the case. The posts are just a way to motivate attacks on our homes and person. I suggest you alter your removal policy immediately.
Wait by the river long enough and the body of your enemies will float by.
if they can do this maybe ror is next https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/10/20/judge-to-google-tell-nyer-who-harassed-her-online/
you can only tread water so long and shit does stop floating after awhile
Ed Magedson noticed. If you listen to the tapes of his ex-employee James you will hear him talk about how Ed brought in Marcus, a referal from his attorney to help him get the posts back up. James also admitted he was told to Google my name and others, then click on the Rip Off Report post so that the link would stay in good position on the front page.
How many companies became CAP members because of this activity?
Hey guys,
I am so enjoying this conversation and all of it makes sense. Paladin, I get what you are saying about the big picture too. I have a bone to pick with ROR, but it is so much more than that. The arrogance surrounding the operation of ROR, and the seeming illegal use of the CDA is so damn frustrating.
But, herein lies some of the problem. No attorneys really want to handle this. If one of us wants to fork out hundreds of thousands of bucks, yes and even then, you end up with sketchy attorneys. The thing that ROR has on their side is that they go after the attorneys and about half way through, the threat to attorneys, who are not big old power houses, starts to get to them and it tears them down. I see this happening over and over and for whatever reason, no judge has yet to really, really look at any case for what it is. I think that there is little doubt that there have been lines crossed as concerns the CDA law but I am beginning to feel about that law the way I feel about the state do not call list. Our state attorney general could care less. Supposedly, when you are solicited and you are on the do not call list and you turn them in, they are to investigate and you can be compensated. The same companies call over and over and over, you turn them in again and again, nothing happens. It is just bullshit. I feel the same way about the CDA law. It is like a restraining order that is not enforced. Not worth a crap.
Sooner or later I think this house of cards will fall, but what it will take I just do not know. I just want the laws changed and some politician or lawmaker to get a dose so that they understand. That is probably what it will take.
Until then, I wish and hope that a creative lawsuit will ensue just like you guys are talking about. Maybe a suit from another country will work, I don't. Here in America, we just don't seem to care about it. I just know that my report stays on page one, top of the page. And, it has to be manipulated to do that. There are two other ppl with my name who are very famous and brilliant and other sites of mine that trump that crap. There is no way it should be before them. Have at it, whoever does that. You are an idiot.
I spent half of the day yesterday reading this page. I found it after searching ROR for a company that is a known scam. Multiple DIFFERENT ex-employees have outed this company as a scam, yet when I checked ROR there was a BIG, BOLD paragraph saying ROR has investigated and it is a safe company to do business with. This was posted before all of the reports on this company. WTH? A personal friend, who is an ex-employee, told me about a man who lost his business to this scam and subsequently took his own life. How is ROR, the consumer advocate website, VOUCHING for this scam? Eager to know more, Google led me to this page. I already have trust and confidence in SEOmoz, so reading these comments have been an eye opener. I have found out that the scammers must have paid money to have ROR post that lie vouching for the scam. I have found that ROR has personal reports. I really don't understand a consumer website allowing reports about an individual. This must be high school again. Boy, am I glad I did not know they accepted personal reports during any of my personal issues. I could have ruined people's lives, and probably messed up my own. I used to respect ROR, now, not at all. If one report is false, how many others are false, too?
BTW, ROR now has arbitration in place -- for $2,000. Some of the $2,000 is for the arbiters' fees, and some is for program fees. I would be interested in knowing the breakdown. Hey, give me $1,500 to remove false stuff I wrote about you on my website. Sounds like a scam to me. ROR should charge people a nominal fee, say $5 to make a report. $5 is not going to hinder the report of someone who lost $$$ to a scammer, but it will hinder a vindictive SOB from making 500 false allegations about a company. Oh, and ROR should REMOVE personal reports. If it is a 'consumer advocacy' site, then let it stand as that. In my mind, ROR is tainted, and I can no longer believe anything posted there.
I too thought that ripoff report was 'legitimate' until defamatory matter was posted about me. I am not a business and this has ruined my life. I do not live in the USA and while I cannot litigate against ripoff report the law permits me to file proceedings against Google.
As soon as Google Inc were seved with the summons they removed some of the links to the defamatory matter on ripoff report in their search. I don't think they even told their own lawyers but y doing this they proved that their response to my notifications-that google could not remove links without the co-operation of the webmaster was a lie.
The matter is listed for its first court hearing next month. Ripoff report taunts non US victims on their website with the 2010 law that effectively prevents us from filing proceedings because the US courts will not enforce the judgement. However, Google has a presence in most nations and many of these, including mine, have defamation laws that impute liability on all organisations (and people) who communicate defamation. I have a reputation in my state that has been damaged and our courts have determined that unlike the US defamation occurs in the location in which the plaintiff lives, not where it is uploaded.
Of course it just takes one successfull non-US action to start the ball rolling and that has been commenced. The quetion is then raised of how long before Google realises that ripoff report is an embarrasment and a liability and pulls the plug?
Of course Google can remove links w/o notifying the webmaster of the site. Look up PANDA. That was when Google effectively destroyed thousands of 'link farms' (and quite a few they CLAIMED were link farms who weren't), all in one day. No notification, just poof and the sites were gone COMPLETELY off of a Google search. Not downgraded, not listed period. Like they didn't exist to Google.
I really like the idea of paying to post. It most certainly would keep it a lot more honest, but they would never do it. While they would make money, they would lose it too becaue without multiple reports, less ppl would be messed up, on the brink of ruin and willing to become their victims, buying into the CAP. That is their bread and butter. You pay that upfront fee and the monthly fees based on the number of reports on there about your company. I have no idea why. They do not contact the ppl who wrote the reports and negotiate with them, thereby creating more work. They just post some bullcrap about the company has seen the light and will be good boys and girls from now on and they are convinced that their wicked ways are in the past, my paraphrase. It is knee deep in BS. So, really, what does it mean if there are ten or fifty reports? A way to slaughter innocent ppl.
The topic of a class action lawsuit comes up frequently. I would welcome the opportunity to help organize one, provided we have grounds that will stick in court.
For instance, in my situation, the Rip Off Reports have damaged my business to such an extent that I can not obtain clients, and earn a living. AND when I apply for work, the Human Resource Directors Google search my name, and despite great references, I am immediately rejected. I believe ROR is in violation of the FAIR CREDIT ACT. Wouldn't this be sufficient grounds to terminate Rip OFF Report, on a Federal Level?
I'm open to suggestions. Ed Magedson is running out of money, he's "hiding" in an effort to avoid being served. I understand however that John Brewington with Paladin Investigations knows where is, and can help us find him and SERVE him, if we organize a class action suit.
WRITE A COMPLAINT TO THE ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE TODAY!
Here is an interesting portion of an affidavit filed by Edward Magedson in a California case. It seems his defense is that he just spoke without thinking and maligned someone under oath but after he reviewed his taped phone calls he relealized he was wrong and oh well.
This link is to an interesting story about wiretapping in California. So David S Gingras Esq., that's your defense stategy?
https://www.gannett.com/go/newswatch/2002/april/nw0405-8.htm
In paragraph 31 of the March 22 Affidavit, I testified among other things:
“During my phone conversations with Mr. Mobrez, he became very threatening towards
me, stating that he ‘had people in Arizona’ who could ‘find me’ which I interpreted as a
threat.” I repeated this same statement in another short affidavit filed in this matter on
April 5, 2010. At the time I made the allegations regarding Mr. Mobrez threatening me,
I believed those statements to be true.
4. As I explained in ¶ 4 of my April 5, 2010 Affidavit, I have received many
threats in the past. Many of these past threats have included statements similar to those
which I attributed to Mr. Mobrez – people sometimes state that they are going to try to
find me or my home which is a very serious safety concern to me.
5. I believed that Mr. Mobrez was one of the people who threatened me
because my email to Mr. Mobrez on July 24, 2009 said that I lived in California (which
was not true). I concluded that I probably made that statement to Mr. Mobrez in
response to a statement from him which threatened to find me in Arizona, or to have
someone else do so. This is why I thought that Mr. Mobrez made such threats.
6. After these affidavits were filed, I recalled that I had recordings of all of
my telephone conversations with Mr. Mobrez which had taken place approximately a
year earlier. I had not yet retrieved or listened to any of these recordings before my
affidavits were filed with the court.
7. At the request of my attorneys following the Court’s denial of our anti-
SLAPP motion on April 19, 2010, on April 20, 2010 I spent several hours conducting a
search of my records. I was able to eventually locate six recordings of calls and/or
voicemails from Raymond Mobrez to the main number for the Ripoff Report site; (602)
359-4357. The first time I listened to any of these recordings was on April 20, 2010. I
also provided copies of these calls to my counsel for the first time on that same day.
8. After listening to each of these recordings, I was surprised to find that they
do not contain any threats from Mr. Mobrez as outlined in my March 22 or April 5
Affidavits.
I was just wondering what was to happen if someone
would had used "ripoffreport" to file some reports against the judge,jury and attorneys in the greenkey managment lawsuit.
Perhaps some typically absurd ripoffreports against the judge,jury and other key elements in the trial would give them a correct insight about what is so wrong about the ROR scam operation and why it needs to be removed from the internet and its creator finally jailed where he belongs.
I was just wondering what was to happen if someone
would had used "ripoffreport" to file some reports against the judge,jury and attorneys in the greenkey managment lawsuit.
Perhaps some typically absurd ripoffreports against the judge,jury and other key elements in the trial would give them a correct insight about what is so wrong about the ROR scam operation and why it needs to be removed from the internet and its creator finally jailed where he belongs.
Both my professional and personal life have been hurt by false anonymous reports on Ripoff Report. These are serious false claims of sexual harassment. My full name, address, and phone number have been exposed, and I don't even have a busines, that's my personal information.
My family and co-workers have approached me, asking what was up with that stuff. No doubt in my mind it has costs me work (you Google people as part of a standard background check, very common).
Forget loopholes and he-said/she-said crap....HOW is this RIGHT?
And there is nothing I can do about it but respond to it? Why should I unwillingly be put in a position to defend myself against an anonymous person and a flase claim? If it was court and reality that would be one thing, but to be caught up in this false bullshit mess is a fn' joke.
Excuse it or point the finger anywhere you want, David, or who ever else from ROR comes by this, but you are scum that is just taking advantage of a loophole.
I will contribute in any way I can to take them down.
Welcome to hell. You may not have bought a ticket, but regardless, there is no way out, as of yet. There seems to be a new loophole also. I was made aware that there have been some emails going out from ROR to ppl offering some sort of recoupment of funds, or something of that nature, for a mere $500. Has anyone here received this email? I did see the email, I was not sent it myself, however.
I have some pressing and distressing personal issues right now and I am working on setting up a non profit org. so my time has been strewn all over, but that does not mean tha I have forgotten that my personal information has been plastered on the internet also.
One has to wonder, in light of the killing of the young woman who participated on the vampire website, and was murdered and burned recently, and they believe that she was murdered by someone from the site that she never met but only knew from the site, how Ed M. will deal with any similar situation should it crop up from a situation on ROR.
This is not a joke Ed. Ppl's personal information has been made available online and unbalanced ppl are participating on your site, very unbalanced. This will not end well. Then 60 minutes will be all over all of us who are begging for help. And, I will want to tell them to go get effed.
Dave responded to an email I sent him, but said I was "dead wrong" in my opinion I stated on this website. He called many of us who complain about ROR as a "dead-end group of folks who misunderstand the law".
Dave, we know that you are hiding behind a loophole with the law right now. Just because it's a "law", does not make it right. It's NOT. Laws change and evolve over time, and we are still in the process of the internet changing things. Your time is coming.
I can make the website, but it would do no good without proper marketing and lots of help. I do have access to thousands and thousands of people on social networking sites (large friend lists are good things) but we would have to go beyond that, well beyond that. Just complaining on here is lazy, though it has got their attention, and that is why they sent Dave to try and intimidate/clean it up, but we have to step up much further than on here.
News stations, political figures, damnit, just be loud in general. They want to hope that we just get frustrated and ignore it/hope that it goes away so their train of hate can keep rolling.
If I have to be the leader in this, I guess that's what I have to do. I know they know who I am and that they would come at me, but I'm not afraid and know I am doing nothing wrong. I would hope that it got to the point where I can talk to a judge. I feel that my case goes far beyond "he said/she said". You can't call someone a sexual predator and publish their information while the accuser just hides.
Contact whoever you can find that is an important person listed on ROR with bullshit... and bring them together.. eventually, it will change. You are not alone.
I think that we should on this thread now link to important people with rediculous accusations posted on ROR like judges, attorneys, celebrities, senators, etc. and bring them together on this thread... so start posting your links everyone.
I posted a link above to Sergey Brin from Google which ROR edited and removed his name. So, post yours. Lets bring hell upon ROR for being the scam artists they are and trying to ruin people's lives.
I just contacted all major news stations in Cleveland with my story. I will link to this page, share reports, and my emails with Dave. I will leave nothing unturned and twist no one's words. All I am doing is reporting the truth ;)
I know Dave reads this, but I don't care. The weasel has a job to do. He knows who I am and where I'm at. If ROR wants me to stop talking, remove my name from their website, simple as that. Treat people as you want to be treated.
I find it interesting, that Dave got an attitude toward me for venting about my situation and calling him "scum", but how different is that from what the false reports said about me and others? In fact, it far worse. You are one sad soul Dave. Practice what you preach.
For what it is worth, I did do that. I found all the ROR reports on Judges, Lawyers, Senators, Sherrifs, etc. All reports on ppl of any stature and importance. Then I had to weed through the "nutjobs", the ones where they said that the mayor had come to their house in a space ship, ummhmm. But, I did find some that were of import.
Then I contacted each and every one of those ppl, and I called them and I sent them an email telling them that there were reports about them on ROR that were defamatory in nature, untrue most likely, and that they needed to be aware of them and then that we want to change the laws that were allowing these reports to be posted.
I got one positive response and that was from a senator in CA. His PR adivisor was upset and wanted to get involved. She got the link and some of the others from this site who have been victimized along with myself, and me got pretty excited. She said that she wanted to do some investigations and she even insinuated that were this not to be her fight, or CA's fight, she may be able to get us to the right ppl to get something going. Then she become unavailable, not in the office, not responding to emails, etc.
That was 6-9 months ago. It can be done. You are going to have to find that ONE flame. that one person who will fricking stop long enough to hear you. Make your appeal compelling and concise and not crazy, we can rant on here. If any one of us can get before the right person, can get an audience, then choose the right person to do the audience. This is so important.
THE FAIR CREDIT REPORTING ACT
(f) The term “consumer reporting agency” means any person which, for monetary fees,
dues, or on a cooperative nonprofit basis, regularly engages in whole or in part in the
practice of assembling or evaluating consumer credit information or other
information on consumers for the purpose of furnishing consumer reports to third
parties, and which uses any means or facility of interstate commerce for the purpose
of preparing or furnishing consumer reports.
(c) The term “consumer” means an individual.
(d) Consumer Report
(1) In general. The term "consumer report" means any written, oral, or other communication of any information by a consumer reporting agency bearing on a
consumer's credit worthiness, credit standing, credit capacity, character, general
reputation, personal characteristics, or mode of living which is used or expected
to be used or collected in whole or in part for the purpose of serving as a factor in
establishing the consumer's eligibility for
(A) credit or insurance to be used primarily for personal, family, or household
purposes;
(B) employment purposes; or
(C) any other purpose authorized under section 604 [§ 1681b].
From my perspective, Rip Off Report is held to the standard of this law which is regulated by the FTC.
Terms such as Dead Beat are clearly meant to send a signal as to financial irresponsibilities. There is no doubt that employers make hiring decisions based upon social media and Rip Off Consumer Reports
While many of the posts are about businesses, the owner of the company is often included in the tags thus making it a consumer report.
The law is complicated and lawyers need to look at it and see if it fits their purposes.
Good point Barry, and one that I do not think has been brought up. Likewise if a person is said to be insane, or of poor moral character, they may not be suitable for credit nor employment thereby falling into the same categories you cited. This is huge as this touches on the personal reports that are posted on ROR. Hence another reason he needs to remove them, and why he is acting as anything accept what he says.
Wow! That's what I like to see! Some creative legal thinking!
Unfortunately, the hole in your theory is contained in your post: (c) The term “consumer” means an individual.
What this means is that commercial enterprises are statutorily exempted from taking advantage of the FCRA, and the courts have routinely and broadly extended this exemption.
Now, RoR does allow for complaints against individuals. And as you state, agents/officers of companies are often included in RoR complaints. Per complaints against individuals solely, your theory may hold water. But as far as complaints against individuals in their capacity as an agent/officer of a commercial enterprise, I doubt that you would get very far.
However, if I were a potential plaintiff, I would most certainly consider this avenue, even as I've nver thought of it before.
So kudos to you!
'As for your CDA-related quote above, you CONTINUE to misunderstand the law. What that quoted section means is that if a website operator takes user-generated content and then changes the meaning to something different, then the website loses CDA immunity as to those changes. In the example you gave, Ripoff Report decided to change Sergey Brin's name because it deemed that post to be a hoax. Of course, taking someone's name OUT of a report does not in any way compromise our CDA immunity unless that somehow changes the meaning of what was said in a significant way. Taking Sergey Brin's name out (or changing it to a fictional name) does not change the report's meaning, so it is a non-issue. I guess the fictional character could sue, but since there is no such person, I don't think this is very likely. '
Those actions by definition changed the meaning of the report. If you believed that report to be an outright fraud (as you claim) then why did you not simply remove the post altogether? If not why do you not change the names of other people who can prove their reports are false as well? Changing the persons name in this case DID change the meaning and intent of the report as it was no longer in reference to the person it orignally referred to but rather a person who does not actually exist. So tell me why you have reports about people that you freely admit do not even exist on your site then? You clearly know that report is false, because the person does not exist. Isn't filing a false report a violation of your own TOS agreement? Those actions caused ROR to violate its own TOS agreement and violate the CDA in the same report. It would be very interesting to see how a court would view this situation if it were to be brought up. Sooner or later that will be brought up in court. There is also the possibility of a person getting annoyed enough to file a human rights abuse claim against ROR. You never want to be on the wrong end of one of those.
You know, it all makes me so weary.
There is this law. The Communications Decency Act of 1996. It is quite clear in what would make ROR or any other site owner responsible for posts that they sponsor or allow on their site. What they can and cannot do. It does not take a rocket scientist to understand what you can and or cannot do to a report that would change the reports meaning or intent. If an individual wanted to post a report saying that GE ripped them off and ROR decided it was a hoax and changed the violater to RCA, that definately changes everything. This is not rocket science. House counsel, drop that arguement please on two premises. You are not allowed to determine what is or is not a hoax, and you are not allowed to change that important fact, the premise of the entire report, OK?
The report that was written about me is invalid, and is a hoax, but I am not a big shot with Google. So, ef me. That is the bottom line. How were you sure that it was really Brin who contacted you and told you the report was a hoax? Anyone could access Brin's computer, or his account, if he had one. Anyone could call from his phone, anyone could pretend to be him. Oh, wait, Brin did not write the article. So, Brin made a lot of noise about being defamed. Oh, ok, so, he got his way, got the report changed. See, you would have been MUCH smarter to just have removed the damn thing andn none of this would be known, right? ROR shot itself in the foot.
And, of course, I have never heard a word back from you regarding our emails outside of this venue. Thanks. So my anxiety remains forever. I just have to wait for some judge who wants to read the CDA and look at what has been going on with the site, and really look at the torn lives to put the site down. Close it. I am baffled as to why it is taking so long.
Immunity was lost a long time ago, according to the CDA and everyone knows it David. Everyone, even you. To keep bantering about Brin is like flicking a bugger back and forth, we all know what happened, what it means, and what a huge mistake ROR made. End of story.
I have heard you say that ROR is considering becoming a better site, a different site and maybe cleaning up. Well, get to it and stop the bleeding, ours and Eds. God, you only live once, how long does he want to play with the possibility of a stroke, heart attack, just all the anxiety and money he has spent? Ed, get real and get on with life, and find some nirvana, and stop hurting people...
Start with Danny Scalf aka Frank Torelli. You will see Trorelli was listed as assnt editor, reporter and all sorts of things for Ripoff Report. Here is al ink to a story how this Ripoff Report employee was allegedly wiretapping.
https://www.orlandoweekly.com/columns/story.asp?id=3211
You will also find him in Federal court as a defendant addressing some of this issues where he was creating content to smear other companies as an agent for Ripoff Report.
There are also interesting audio tapes out there.
Google Frank Torelli and you will see some of his Ripoff Report contributions.
Think they don't creat content?
I think that sounds great. But which attorney to choose to go to all this with? I wonder which will take the case or what type in what state..
I think that sounds great. But which attorney to choose to go to all this with? I wonder which will take the case or what type in what state..
Anyone with any thoughts on finding a class action attorney?
I saw on wikipedia a bunch of lawsuits filed against ROR in 2010. THANK GOD! These scammers need to be shut down.
Check it out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripoff_Report
Lets see...Xcentric Ventures attorneys fight ferociously to protect annonymous posters yet you want posters here to out themselves so you can systematicaly destroy them?
The Boston Tea Party was thrown by annonymous people.
Your gibberish is why Jaburg and Wilk don't want you as their spokesman and asked you to leave queitly.
My interpretation of what you are trying to do is misdirect. Ripoff Report had an expiration date on it the moment it was created. Win every suit but the money you spend to do so will send you to hell. The law of attrition, you will run out of money. That's why you spend so much time trying to talk people out of suing.
If ok120 was telling the truth, why would asking him to voluntarily "out" himself cause him to be destroyed? This makes no sense. If ok120 is really a victim rather than a liar, he would be shouting his name from the rooftops and showing us his proof so that people would see his story and know he was telling the truth. That will never happen, of course, because ok120 is a fraud trying to gain sympathy through lies. Everyone reading this page knows that.
As for me, how am I trying to misdirect anyone? By pointing out a new lawsuit that's almost exactly the type of class-action that people on here have been talking about for years? How could that be seen as anything other than helpful to your cause?
As for trying to talk people out of suing, I am doing that for three reasons.
First, the law is clear -- you cannot hold Ripoff Report responsible for what 3rd parties have written. You can sue the author all day long, but it's not Ripoff Report's fault if someone misuses our site and posts something inaccurate. Every single court that has looked at this issue has agreed with that argument, so explaining this to people is hardly misleading or inappropriate especially when so many people on here have deliberately misstated the law. I think we all benefit if we can all agree what the rules are.
Second, people do not seem to realize that by suing Ripoff Report they are only hurting themselves in the end. Lawsuits can cost $100,000--1,000,000+ and since the law protects Ripoff Report (and SEOmoz, etc.), these lawsuits do nothing but cost money to people who should be spending their funds on more constructive ventures. Oh, and don't forget -- if you sue Ripoff Report and lose, you're almost certainly going to end up paying our legal fees as well, so don't think you can carpet-bomb us out of existence with bogus lawsuits.
Third, there are LOTS of ways that people can deal with negative reports without paying Ripoff Report (or SEO crooks) a single dime. I'm not going to explain every one of them here, but just take a look at this example:
https://www.ripoffreport.com/bed-bath/overnightmattress-co/overnightmattress-com-over-nig-355ee.htm
This is a company who had a complaint and they dealt with it in a way that makes anyone reading the page see that they care about treating their customers right. This link is at the top of Google and rather than trying to hide it (like those in the SEO industry promise to do), this company wisely decided to use the complaint as an opportunity to shine, and they did this without paying anything to ROR and without wasting $100k in legal fees. Think about this -- sure, you don't want negative complaints on the first page of Google, but if they are already there why wouldn't you use that to your advantage like these guys did? Do you have any idea how valuable this publicity is for a company? Wouldn't you rather be on the first page of Google than be invisible?
Anyway, the bottom line is this -- the Yelp case that I mentioned is something that we're watching very closely. If the court says that Yelp's practices are illegal, we will stop and consider whether that requires us to make any changes to our practices, even though we don't do what Yelp is accused of doing.
As for claiming that I was "asked to leave quietly" from my job, what on Earth makes you think that? I still work with those guys on a daily basis. Don't believe me? Just check the court dockets on some of the new cases out there...
~David Gingras
General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC
[email protected]
I only have one thing to say. I have posted my name, my report, etc here and have hidden nothing. I have never been committed to a mental institution, I am not a whore. Everything in the report that is on ROR about me is a blatant lie and has harmed me immeasurably. Personal reports do not help anyone, they only serve as character assasination and defamation. ROR needs to take them all off. They are like a BAD version of The National Enquirer and they have caused me so much pain.
I have turned down offers to work with very pretigious organizations because of what comes up when my name is googled. I do not deserve that. And, that violates my civil rights. Under the American with Disabilities Act, and as a female over 40, it also violates me again. I do suffer from depression and I have multiple sclerosis and survive breast cancer. This report has the potential to disallow me employment, consideration for inclusion on boards that I have been invited to be part of, but turned down because of fear of discovery, etc. My civil rights are being harmed. This report is a lie.
David, explain to me how this is ok? I have my own issue with my illness, my bad judgement from my illness, which we have disscussed on and off this blog, but this is an entirely different issue. To allow this to continue to be broadcast under these circumstances does put ROR at risk, as they are allowing it. You know that I have recently accepted a directorship with a non-profit, and it is a very important job. Do I need to change my name, begin using my middle name, what do I need to do in order to successfully perform the job set before me, or should I, as I have for the past two years, turn this down and fall deeper into depression and lose my life even more. I have little left. This is the inhumanity of ROR. This is not an anger rant. It, along with my spouse, has destroyed my life. I have little left. And, cannot even start it over because this is who I am. This is what I do, David. What foundation, were they to google my name, as I am the Director of Outreach, would seriously consider our cause upon seeing that headline "Rip Off Report: Jan Martin Smith, Whore At Heart, Psychopath in Winston Salem, NC". They know that it is me instantly. And, it is a complete lie. Furthermore, the report has my street address in it, and there are only three houses on this street. So, I am at risk there. RoR says that they will change that. I would like that changed, I want my street name off of the report. And the city. Why should any of it be there? A crazy woman put it there.
Jan
David you know I find it very amusing that you constantly avoid one very important issue.
The fact that you allow people to post annonymously or use fake names.
That means one person could post numerous times under different names if they wanted to be vindictive.
Even if they posted once & they got their friends to each post once, that's just unacceptable in my opinion.
You "claim" that the ROR is there to help consumers be aware of terrible companies/businesses, yet you allow people to post lies, OR you allow people who aren't even customers of companies to post.
I even posted my rebuttle on the only post that was from a real customer & I provided his real name b/c he handn't & my real name was posted there.
Interestingly, you blocked his name from appearing, yet you jumped for joy to leave my name there. Yippeeee.
So explain to the public why you go out of your way to block the real names of people who are bashing companies? AND you allow people who are NOT customers to post lies, all the while bashing companies.
Whenever I post something negative about a company, I always provide a lot of detail (to me this is a sign of a real complaint) & I give my first real name, as I have nothing to hide.
Someone else on here already pointed out that other complaint sites don't allow this kind of lying flamming behavior, yet ROR seems to enjoy it since it hurts companies.
I'm also pretty sure other complaint sites moderate the posts, yet you say ROR is wayyyyy to busy for that. We both know that's BS. If they can take the time to be diligent in running an ethical site, so can ROR, unless they aren't ethical & have no integrity.
Then you still haven't given us a response to why you allow people to flame individuals. You got Jan's hopes up that you were going to remove her post & she took a leap of faith & gave you all of her info & you STILL strung her along.
That shows everyone on here reading this your true character.
You pretend to be all calm & mature about all of this, but I've been reading everything you say & you still avoid addressing those 2 very important issues that probably make up the majority of the complaints around ROR.
This shows me that you do NOT have consumers' best interests at heart at all. You just want more posts so you can make more money b/c the nastier the posts, the more readers you have & the more visitors that will flock which then generates more money for you. I have no problem with you making money, I DO have a problem with you spreading lies about people & companies & you are aiding & abetting these people who are lying about individuals & companies.
So at least have the decency to admit that is what your company is after instead of pretending like you are helping consumers b/c nothing could be further from the truth.
In all of this I've noticed a pattern that you are helping bring down innocent small businesses which directly affects the economy, b/c if they lose sales, then they spend less & their employees spend less or they are laid off.
I'm sure you don't care about the economy & I don't pressume you have anything to do with the bigger picture, but your company is contributing to the recession b/c people love to believe the worst in companies even if what's being posted isn't true & EVEN if there is a rebuttal.
There are enough companies out there that actually do cause a lot of problems for consumers - trying to bring down the ones who AREN'T just shows how mean spirited your company really is.
The law never addresses the moral compass of a person, so grand standing about the law doesn't prove anything. All it proves is that society is run by controlling mean spirited lawyers who make it hard for citizens to live in peace.
No offense to all the kind lawyers out there who actually care about society & the common man.
Oh David, David please don't be offended. I have been thinking about this today. It has dawned upon me that you're a second or third stringer because Magedson is running out of money and can't afford to pay real attorneys. Jaburg and Wilk needed to get rid of both of you becuase, well you're both liabilities now. An embarressment. What better way to mitigate their liablilities than to throw Magedson to you and let you take the blame when he crashes and burns?
What's the answer to Paulette Griffith? Why she is one of the ROR monitors of course. Wife to Joseph. Now your turn. Where does she live?
Removing content permanently and pushing content to page 20 are two different subjects. This site offers a wealth of information to help inform us on how to push down content utilizing your own resources without paying services to an outside organization. Noted again, the problem being if individuals search your name or business using key words that are in the title of the libelous report written, you will find your company or name right back on page 1, despite all efforts to push down the report. In my case, I have one stalker, who wrote content that was defamatory under anonymous names, and continues to copy and paste the same report over and over to avoid terms of her settlement agreement. This tactic keeps my name and business on top of the search engine. It's a full time job with full time pay to monitor and write press releases or build websites to defend your reputation when a stalker is actively writing daily on ROR, with no consequences to their actions. ROR General counselor claims the above isn't true. Why are so many "Reputation Defendor" type companies in business if this is not true? I welcome the opportunity to be in front of a judge to testify on this subject.
Second issue relating to my circumstance. My computer was hacked into by the stalker, and not only was I published on multiple sites, (all of them taken down except ROR) innocent family members and friends were also published on ROR, simply because of association. My niece, who is a minor, is published on ROR, and when googled, she will be synonymous with "scam." That's injustice. Why should she at 16 years of age have to hire a reputation defendor? Last I knew, we lived in the United States of America, where my constitutional rights as a citizen in the US is "innocent" until proven "guilty." Rip Off Report acts as jury and judge convicting people without facts or evidence. Even when we provide evidence supporting our innocence, the TRUE crime perpetrated by the mentally unstable, cyber-bullying stalker (in my case) has been committed. The damage is done.
My first ammendment rights are violated. I have successfully proven in court that the individual who wrote about me was writing defamatory statements with an intent to harm me indivudually as a person and business. With the verdict and judge ruling that was awarded to me, EVERY site owner blocked the stalker's IP address from writing on their site AND took down all defamatory comments except for ROR. GREED, MONEY and MORALLY BANKRUPT INDIVDUALS CONTROL RIP OFF.
I have written reports on Rip Off Report, that have gone unpublished. Many in fact pertaining to Ed. None have been published, therefor proving that this site violates the Communications Decency Act and DOES edit content.
I'd like to post an article on ROR, with my own "opinions" about the law firm that represents Ed, and include the general counselor, the receptionist, and interns in the article to warn people that they perform shady business practices and profit from victims. Let the people of the world know that Ed's attorney, in my opinion, represents one of the most unethical business owner's since Al Capone. Next, I'd like to find out how he would react to having not just one article written about him and his fellow associates on ROR, but daily "scam" reports similar to blog entries. Reports written on his whereabouts, reports written about their firm's clientele and next post his clientele on ROR as "Scams." The money dwindles out of the firms accounts one by one....and they can't take the reports down. It's obvious that if this firm, and individual represents ED & ROR, all of their clientele are SCAMS operating unethically too. I'd like to Post his vacation spots, every encounter he has, even his church (if he attends) as a deceptive church....he donates to the church with victim's money, it's a scam right? We must warn the public of anyone who associates with these disreputable individuals and prevent innocent people from being "Ripped Off," it's our duty. Let's next list his financial income, tax returns, net worth, assessment of his home and car, name his significant other (wife, ex wife or partner), children (if a factor), parents and pets, as individuals who profit hand somely by representing the most unscrupulous site owner in history. They have profited from all of us. WE pay for their houses, their cars, their income, and their livelihood. If I wrote these "opinions" on ROR about his general counselor, would it be published, or would it be edited? Or best question, would it be removed.
Listen David
To me your proactive approach for lawsuits (such as creating a webpage page under the term "ripoffreport lawsuits" ) in order to try and discourage any legal attempt against the mafia like website you represent only goes to reveal your weakness and fears.
All of us know that if its a matter of time until these lawsuits bankrupt you and your fellow companions.
Well i got some news for you,
in the background i and several other companies have banned together for a huge lawsuit against the company you so passionately represent. Unlike your previous pathetic efforts to settle outside of court every time the judgment showed sign of working against you this time around we are out to shut down your mob like operation including massive punitive damages to be paid .
Like i read in previous posts this website and concept had an expiry to them the moment they were born and that time has now come. I know that the survival of ripoffreport in the legal arena is like a small boat in rough seas , but mark my word that the waves you have experienced so far are nothing compared to the tsunami coming your way.
Do not bother contacting me, i read your comments here on this website and there is nothing you have to say that will change anything that is about to happen or is of any interest to me.
Seth
Thank you, Seth, for the post.
Please keep us updated if there is a place you'd like for others to join you, get more info, etc. Sounds excellent.
Again, I personally encourage those out there to contact the attorneys handling the class action lawsuit against Yelp if you have a valid claim. Maybe they can help us as Yelp seems to be similar to ROR:
Jared H. Beck & Elizabeth Lee Beck
https://www.beckandlee.com/jared.html
Harvard Law Graduate
email: [email protected]
email: [email protected]
305-789-0072
Greg Weston
https://www.westonfirm.com
emaill: [email protected]
858-488-1672
Fantastic post. Thanks so much for researching and clarifying the backstory. It's important to keep the heat on Ed and Google to force one of them to act. I don't see how this can be ignored by Google any longer.
If somebody succeeds in cutting off the head we will probably just expose more vile creatures that are better at staying anonymous and/or exploiting loopholes.
Great post, very informative. Let's hope that potential claimants will read this and know the correct lawsuit to file.
This is one of the best posts I have read on Seomoz, if accurate.
Great post.
:)
As a business that is getting slammed on the ROR I have worked hard, day and night, to get it pushed down for almost a year. It has been down, no new posts, for several months.
I have been both delighted and discouraged by seeing all of the recent post and articles about ROR and google. It sounds like there are people out there that know this is wrong. That gives me faith in people.
However, it's like there is a whole new industry being developed for people to "assist" in helping you with your ROR problem. Lately, in the last month, my name will move back up out of the blue, and a few days later a company out of no where wants to "assist" me specifically with my ROR problem.
All the talk seems to be bringing out more jerks. The same thing happens after a hurricane - vultures.
With the awful things they do with SEO in order to rank, combined with these questionable legal actions, I'm astounded that Google still allow them to rank at all. I'd have though they'd have followed MSN's lead by now...
Excellent post sarah
Speaking in general terms here as best I can so I can better understand "Section 230" - if you have a blog written about "The Evil Deeds of Company A" and you accept blog comments, but delete all the comments that are in defense of "Company A" or contrary to your opinion about "Company A" - Does that mean you forfeit your section 230 immunity? Both your post and the link you provided talk about editing comments and content but not completely deleting all opposing views...
Great question C!
Completely deleting entire comments does not eliminate section 230 immunity, even if you do so selectively according to view point!
So feel free to give the impression that everyone agrees with you on your website. That's what I do! [okay. No i don't. But I have fantasies about it.]
Very truly yours,
Sarah
There is one pending RoR case out there (Sarah can probably point out which one) that claims RoR is not eligible for CDA immunity because of how they coach commentors on how to make their post as damaging as possible and proactively frame the tone and nature of comments on thir site. Whether they write the words or not, RoR most certainly exercises heavy editorial influence on the language and intent of the conversation.
If I suggest to you that you could profit from writing something damaging about someone (with no regard to the truth of the matter), it sure as hell seems like that enticement should make me liable. When John Gotti said, "take care of him," nobody questioned the intent behind the statement.
Great post!
Quick question, if a website offers some kind of compensation for user participation (e.g. free ipod drawing, or free premium content for a certain level of participation) does the site lose immunity for user generated content? Where is the line drawn here?
Now that is a great question!
And it warrants a thorough answer. It requires a discussion about the legal implications of 'contests and giveaways.'
The short answer is, you've got to be very careful on how you're structuring contests and rewards. There are suprising pitfalls out there associated with giveaways etcs.
With your permission, I'd like to reserve the long answer for a proper post.
Thanks for the EXCELLENT question!
Yeah, I guess you can have my permission to hold your answer ;)
Wow.... can't wait to see this...should completely blow away everything I said
Reduced to its simplest form in terms of SEO, this is about a malevolent company using Google's SERPs to make a lot of money from companies who use or (worse) rely on Google for attracting business.
Google may feel that RipOff Report deserves to stay in its index because of the user generated content on the site. However, given RipOff Report's removal, legitimate comments and complaints will find their place on equally legitimate consumer advocacy services.
And to think that we always considered Microsoft to be the purveyor of evil :)
In many cases, lately the Asia Economic case in Califorina, Magedosn under oath claims no posts are removed, ever. Then this comes out along with some other things.
The judge in the Asia Economic case also made it clear that Magedson had violated California penal code for taping phone calls without the permission of the other party. Magedson refused to release the name of the third party vendor that does the taping. Maybe there are some othe recordings that he doesn't want to get out through subpoena.
Of course Mr. Hutcherson isn't above a little selling of his services but so what?
Hutcherson Law Submits Declaration on Ripoff Report Content Removal
Dallas, TX, July 28, 2010 --(PR.com)-- Kenton Hutcherson of Hutcherson Law submitted a declaration in United States District Court for the Central District of California stating that Xcentric Ventures, LLC, owner of RipoffReport.com, twice removed content pursuant to demands based upon an earlier settlement with one of Hutcherson’s clients."
This declaration is significant as it makes a matter of public record the fact that, even under the protections of the Communications Decency Act, all online content is subject to legal negotiation," stated Kenton Hutcherson, Founder of Hutcherson Law.
The Ripoff Report is a self-proclaimed “consumer advocacy” website that boasts that it enjoys legal immunity under Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act for defamatory statements posted by others on its website. Based upon this asserted immunity, Ripoff Report’s terms of service contain explicit policies stating that content will not be removed from the website even if the content’s creator requests it.
"The Communications Decency Act provides immunities that have been instrumental in the explosive growth of the Internet in this country," commented Kenton Hutcherson, Founder of Hutcherson Law. "Still, as with any broadly sculpted law, this Act does not provide absolute justice in all situations, and our legal system allows business owners and individuals alike to challenge it.
"On May 15, 2009, Kenton Hutcherson resolved a legal dispute between his client and Xcentric Ventures, LLC. As a part of the terms of the settlement agreement, Xcentric Ventures LLC agreed to prevent future submissions related to Hutcherson’s client from appearing on the Ripoff Report website.
After that settlement, however, an anonymous party submitted report number 510675 about Hutcherson’s client to the website. Contrary to the agreement, Ripoff Report published this report. On October 19, 2009, Hutcherson made a demand to remove this report to Xcentric Ventures, LLC. Shortly thereafter, Ripoff Report removed the disputed content.
Ripoff Report then removed a second report about Hutcherson’s same client, report number 540506, on December 28, 2009, in response to a similar demand made by Hutcherson. The declaration submitted by Hutcherson captures the facts related to the demands and the removal of the content.
Internet related disputes are complicated as the case law evolves almost as fast as the technologies on the Internet. This evolution has resulted in both the retooling of traditional law firms and the emergence of new firms of Internet lawyers like Hutcherson Law to meet the market demands of a growing number of plaintiffs and defendants in Internet related disputes.
Hutcherson Law is currently serving as lead counsel in a separate case against Xcentric Ventures, LLC and Edward Magedson, the manager of Xcentric Ventures, LLC and “EDitor” of Ripoff Report, in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Georgia. In that lawsuit, Hutcherson Law is challenging Xcentric Ventures and Edward Magedson’s assertion of immunity under the Communications Decency Act.
Founded in 2007, Hutcherson Law is a Texas-based law firm with deep experience in Internet-related law including online defamation litigation, copyright law, trademark law, and the interpretation of Internet laws including the Communications Decency Act and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act as it pertains to the needs of middle-market businesses. Hutcherson Law's client list includes businesses across the country in vertical markets including financial services, consulting, medicine, and law.
IMPORTANT NOTICE:
TO ANY AND ALL WHO WILL AND CAN ATTEND THIS SESSION, PLEASE DO SO. WHEN YOU GET THERE, SEE THE PLAINTIVES ATTORNEY Lisa Borodkin. FIRST CASE TO GET TO TRIAL, OFFICIAL TRIAL AUGUST.
RIPOFF REPORT HEARING - NOTE TO PUBLIC ACCESSAsia Economic Institute Vs. Xcentrix Ventures, Edward Magedson, “Ripoff Report” Monday, July 12, 2010 at 1:30 p.m. (PST) Judge Stephen V. Wilson - Court Room 6 312 North Spring Street, 2nd Floor Los Angeles, CA 90012Case Number:2:10-cv-01360-SVW-PJWMonday, July 12, 2010 at 1:30 p.m. (PST)
I am not the author, but I find this compelling and think you will as well, and it helps you get to the places you need to be to have your voice heard at a very critical time. I am unsure who wrote it, but think it is timely and important.
Dear fellow victim of RipoffReport.com.
Please don't keep your misery to yourself. Tell everyone you know of the harm that RipoffReport.com (ROR) has had on your life. Please contact your Congressman, Media, Federal Trade Commission (FTC), US Attorney General Eric Holder, FBI, your State Attorney General. Please be active and communicate with Authorities and most importantly other victims of Ripoff and encourage them to do the same. Moreover, we are collecting petitions to submit to the Google and Yahoo to De-list Ripoff since the site business model is Extortion (RICO Act) and their main business is to promote Defamation of innocent people and businesses. They proudly state on their website that they have been successful to have 550,000 reports against businesses and put at least 100,000 businesses out of business. They are backed by dishonest and hungry lawyers. We must act and put our energy and force collectively at the same time, but timely manner. If youa re able to volunteer, please contact me at the information below. By coming together on this matter, a change can occur. By speaking up, we may be able to prevent others from being harmed. Whether you've been harmed or you know someone who’s been harmed, If you really want to make a difference please write a letter and make a phone call. Last year, my personal life and business was wiped out by RipOffReport.com. We are not guilty of the false accusations made by unknown accusers. We lost our business, our good name and everything we have worked so hard for. People we employed have lost their jobs, the people we were eager to do business with now won't, they don't know what to think or believe. The odd thing is that this was all easily disproved. The man responsible is Ed Mageson of RipoffReport.com and his cohort hungry dishonest attorneys. He is not interested in truth or proof that these are false allegations. He wants money. Why? He says he'll post a message under the slander against us and put his seal of approval on it which is a small icon of a businessman with a halo above his head saying that we are a good company after all. You can imagine how insulting this is when we have done nothing wrong. He said, "Not even the Pope himself could remove these posts." Who is this man, a self-appointed authoritive? According to him, he is a 70's disgruntled street vendor. Our story is true and unfortunate, but not isolated as Ripoff boasts more than 550,000 people and companies harmed and counting. This Ripoff company clearly has a business model of Defamation and Extortion and this is just not right and should not be tolerated by anyone. We also hold our Government and Police Power accountable by not protecting innocent Citizens and tax-payers who pay their salaries and pensions, not Ripoff. We must tell our Government and Police power (also the Media), that they are not entitled to their hefty retirement since they were unwilling to aid and protect innocent citizens and businesses.They bear the duty to protect our civil rights.
By sharing this message with others, maybe You can help make a change and keep this from happening to other business owners and their families. Please be active ................ friends, family, co-workers and anyone and everyone you know. Tell them to pick up the phone or a pen and help make this Defamation and Extortion company (Ripoff) stop. If businesses are the "lifeblood of America", Ed Mageson and his Ripoffreport.com are Dracula draining our nations lifeblood. Your voice may be the lone voice to stop this madness. Won't you please try to help make a difference? We have nowhere else to turn. The very people you may be protecting may turn out to be others in your own family. Ed Mageson's website claims Billions of viewers. With more victims every day, there is no time to loose. Please help us.Please Make a call.Send an email.Write a letter.Forward this to a friend.Share this story.Protect yourself.Let your representatives know that this is not alright with you. Let them know it’s not okay to continue allowing businesses in America to be harmed especially in this terrible business climate. When businesses are gone who will pay the wages, perks and pensions of government? Who will hire employees if businesses are being harmed and driven out of business by a Ripoff company? Why won't our government step in to protect the people of America from those who are busily involved in Extortion and Defamation? Let them all know it’s time for a change in the law NOW. It may not help our situation but it can’t hurt and it may help someone else avoid what we’re going through.God Bless You for your help!Federal Trade Commission600 Pennsylvania Aveenue, NWWashington, DC 205801-877-382-4357https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/www.ftc.gov===========Contact Your Senator:(upper right hand corner of webpage)https://www.senate.gov=================Contact Your Congressional Representative:(Upper left hand corner of webpage)https://www.house.gov/==================Atty General Eric HolderU.S. Department of Justice950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NWWashington, DC 20530-0001 https://www.justice.gov/contact-us.htmlTo his office 202-514-2001Fax 1-202-307-6777
askdoj@usdoj.gov
You know, this board comes in waves and cycles, and to an extent I understand that. You cannot let this dominate your life, especially since you do not think anything is happening.
But something is happening. While ROR would have you believe that they have never lost a case, that is not true. It would be open to definition.
There have been a lot of settlements out of court. And they have a ton of hearings scheduled. What has been happening is that the ppl harmed are learning how to file against ROR and Ed. It is a matter of where you file, the way you file, ie: verbage, and which thing you go after. So, it is becoming clear that it will happen. And when it does the house of cards will collapse. No one would want to buy a company with so many lawsuits against it pending.
So, are you with us as a group or not? A window is perhaps getting ready to slam shut, and I hate being vague but it is an important one. There have been a lot of ppl wanting a class action. To whoever it matters, the lead complaintant gets a huge payout while the other compaintants get nothing so it makes sense that we hear ppl trying to start them all the time. And, the other problem is making all of our damages fall under the same thing. But, I am told a lawyer has been found that feels he can do it. I am not the lead complaintant, but you may well hear something about it in the near future. It is on contingency. When you see that, you can begin to believe there are internal rumblings concerning the strength of ROR. No attorney takes a contingency case without a fairly good guarantee of a win. So with all that said, Are you with us?
Not just in blog land, but in spirit and in fight? email me at [email protected] if you want to be put in contact with a person who is holding a door to your future possibly right now.
Hi Smitty,
Thanks for the insight. Is there a reason you cannot post more publicly? It may help you out a lot plus anyone can send and email pretending to be someone they're not, etc.
Thanks again.
Geez, ok120, if you are talking about me, I have been here forever and the reason is court related.
The best thing is do what is asked in my previous post. That will suffice. When the class action happens, if it does, then we will all be in touch.
Ok, I was directed by someone to send the previous note but let me just say this. If you all would do what was asked in the letter that I copied, but did not write, a couple posts back, that is what is needed. If the class action materializes, I will let you know.
I know how hard it is to trust anyone. I know that we all sleep with one eye open who are victims of ROR. But, you will have to do something if you want to get any kind of resolution. That is just the way it is. So, do those things, and if the class action is a reality, get on board.
Down with ROR forever and ever.
The article published on Augist 23, 2010 regarding RIP OFF REPORTS "questionable operating procedures," in my opinion, is spot on.
I would strongly encourage everyone on this site to write your story to: [email protected]
Below, please read:
p://www.prweb.com/releases/business-ethics/rip-off-report/prweb4400374.htm
IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT
IF YOU LIVE IN CALIFORNIA AND ARE A VICTIM, PLEASE JOIN AND HELP ON MONDAY AT THE HEARING. THIS HEARING WILL DETERMINE IF THIS CASE GETS TO TRIAL. IT IS THE FIRST ONE TO GET A TRIAL DATE. THE ISSUE IS EXTORTION AND RICO ACT VIOLATIONS. IF YOU WERE HARMED BY THE CAP PROGRAM, OFFERED THE CAP PROGRAM YOU ARE ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT. PLEASE PLEASE TAKE THIS TO HEART. PPL ARE FLYING IN FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. IF THE JUDGE SEES SOLIDARITY AND A LARGE NUMBER OF VICTIMS IT WILL GO A LONG WAY. YOU ALL WANT A CLASS ACTION, YOU ALL WANT TO FIGHT. GOD GUYS HERE IS YOUR CHANCE. COME IF YOU CAN DO IT BY HOOK OR CROOK, YOU WERE NEVER MORE NEEDED. WE CAN TAKE THIS SITE DOWN, BUT YOU HAVE TO HELP PLEASE. WHEN YOU ARRIVE, EARLY PLEASE, ASK FOR LISA BORODKIN, SHE IS LEAD COUNSEL.
IMPORTANT NOTICE:
TO ANY AND ALL WHO WILL AND CAN ATTEND THIS SESSION, PLEASE DO SO. WHEN YOU GET THERE, SEE THE PLAINTIVES ATTORNEY Lisa Borodkin. FIRST CASE TO GET TO TRIAL, OFFICIAL TRIAL AUGUST.
RIPOFF REPORT HEARING - NOTE TO PUBLIC ACCESSAsia Economic Institute Vs. Xcentrix Ventures, Edward Magedson, “Ripoff Report” Monday, July 12, 2010 at 1:30 p.m. (PST) Judge Stephen V. Wilson - Court Room 6 312 North Spring Street, 2nd Floor Los Angeles, CA 90012Case Number:2:10-cv-01360-SVW-PJWMonday, July 12, 2010 at 1:30 p.m. (PST)
This is exciting. I will most likely be there for sure. Everyone should come out.
I am so thrilled. Can you message me please? You cna do it here or at [email protected].
Come on ppl, this is your chance to take it down, don't wuss out!
Very well put Tina, my Louise!. While Asia Econ. went after ROR for extortion and that was denied, they are still in court, so, the fat lady has not sung yet.
Please send your story to the place Tina noted and also, the winds of change are shifting. Several Judges are taking notice of bloggers and other online posters who are destroying ppl's lives and how the site owners have been using the CDA to hide behind. In ROR's case, it seems to allow them to refuse to give up IP addys so that outside of posting a rebuttal to your defamatory report, the only other option is to join the CAP program, where they really make their living. Allowing a person to remain anonymous with unproven complaints is also being questioned. It is kind of like when you accuse someone of murder, you have to prove the murder, they do NOT have to prove they did not do it until trial. If you were taken to court for defamation, you have to prove what you said to be true. Also, if you have 100 reports on the site and all of them went back to one or two ip addys, that is solid proof of cyber bullying or stalking or defamation and guess what? Someone is going to jail. So, things are finally being heard. All of you monsters out there who have sharpened your teeth by harming someone that you hate with lies and inyendos, you day of reckoning is coming. You better have a good bank acct or insurance.
As I understand the CAP prog, you pay an upfront fee that is based on the number of reports that are currently on ROR, then you pay them a monthly amt forever to intercede and keep new reports from being posted. THey also code your existing report so that it will not be on the first page of Google.
However, as we were looking through CAP accts, we found one that evidently had stopped monthly payment or something because they had been dropped and all the benefits were lifted.
One thing that struck us as funny was that the CAP ppls reports original negative reports, in most instances, were gone and in their place a glowiing review of the company had been written and signed by Ed M. Followed by a CAP hard sell. Hmmmm...We had a hard time finding the angel icon also.
And we also wondered about the personal reports. No recourse for us. None. So, take the effing things down or create an extortion type program for us, k?
Also, another thing that you need to keep in mind is that sometimes the ppl posting are vicitims. Someone can post something in the heat of the moment and regret it. They own what they said, and they should be able to remove it. They become a victim of ROR at that time as well. There should be a huge red disclaimer warning you that you cannot change or alter this report or remove it. At least they could say you can only remove it in the next 48 hours or something like that. Humans make errors in judgement. The ppl who would change their mind are not the evil monsters who want to destroy lives, usually.
the end.
How does he make his money? Here is a posting from another web site. https://www.magedson.com/topic.php?id=8
This site has some pretty interesting information about Magedsons legal counsel.
I'm very surprised that nothing has been written about Magedson's early days on Long Island when he was a publisher of two different gay publications that I know of. The first was LIB, for Long Island Beat. It was smaller in size and competed against Parlee, which is still around. This is going back possibly as far as 30 years ago. The reputation I heard at that time was that he had threatened to burn an establishment if they didn't carry or advertise in his magazine. LIB didn't last. Then, an individual named Joe D'A (Joe was dishonest and a jerk but who knows, maybe he changed so I'm hiding his name) thought there was a need for a gay newspaper and launched the LI Connection. He soon found he had no experience in this and it showed, so he then felt it best to bring in someone with experience to help run it, so he found Magedson and made him a partner.
The two clashed and accrued debt. I can't recall if the paper came out weekly or biweekly. Finally the debt became so huge that D'A offered to give Magedson the publication if he would take on all the debt with it. Magedson agreed. Issues seemed to get bigger and bigger, until one day, employees showed up at the offices on East Carver St. in Huntington, NY to find the locks changed. They had been screwed out of salaries, you name it, but that was nothing compared to what Magedson had pulled with bar owners. He had gone to them offering unbelievable deals if they would pay for several months up front, cash. Many did, and he fled with it. Magedson had vanished completely from Long Island, word being that he was upstate NY putting the revenue he absconded with up his nose. This stunt was real ballsy, as many of the bar and disco owners on Long Island had rumored ties to the mafia. Lenny Kraft, for instance, owner of Starz in Deer Park, owed the mob money and was so terrified he blew his brains out.
That was the last I heard of Magedson until I recently discovered ripoffreport.
When I read the statement that Ripoff Report was allowed to put on this site I wanted to stand up, salute the flag and sing God Bless America. No...not really. I was being as disingenuous as they were. What I take away from this is the palpable stench of fear.
Leave it attorneys to churn fees by using over a 1000 words to say something they could have in 4, PLEASE...DON'T...SUE...US.
Ripoff Report is running out of money and is trying to mitigate their damages but me thinks too late. They have always beat the we will never settle and we have never lost a case drum but let's look at the real facts.
They had their Federal case with Sarah Bird dismissed and the appeals court dismissed as well. Sarah had her insurance company handle her issue. She didn't spend any money but Ripoff Report did. From where I sit, when you go into battle and you attack an enemy who sustains no losses but you do take casualties, it's a loss.
As part of negotiating settlements, Ripoff Reports makes it mandatory that the wording of it makes it appear that they have won. This is to make potential litigants afraid. Don't be fooled.
The arbitration forum they have now set up is also to mitigate damages. It allows an opportunity for them to get out without spending huge sums in legal fees. Still the attorneys get paid...on both sides. It puts a person in a position to prove they are innocent when it used to be a foregone conclusion that they were...that is till Ripoff Report said otherwise.
Verified Safe looks like a BBB knock off to me. Ripoff Report takes money to tell the community that they have investigated the company and found them to be a legitimate business. Sadly for the community, many of these companies have major issues in the courts. Who investigated and how does it serve the community to cover up the misdeeds of CAP members and verified safe?
Let me use fewer words to explain what Ripoff Reports legal counsel tried to. Suing is expensive emotionally and financially. For someone to sue without a just cause is dumb, kind of like the Xcentric Ventures vs Sarah Bird. But the courts are there to sort out issues that two normally reasonable people cannot agree to. The courts are an independent arbiter that gets in and settles the issues, in a civil manner.
Ripoff Report did not win this, they lost. Sarah Bird didn't beat them, they beat themselves and I think we are going to see a little more of that.
I also think that based upon recent internet postings, David Gingras' career is about to be short lived. Clients won't touch him with a 10 foot pole.
It is amazing that SeoMoz will delete a credible actual criminal history report from the Arizona state records that is completely factual and states things about David Gingras (ROR attorney) that he objects to people knowing about him, his past, his issues, whatever. That SEOMOZ will immediately delete any comments about David that are TRUE, and David calls and writes and this is done RIGHT AWAY. YET when innocent people are hurt by ROR have never done business with people attacking them, and are called the SAME things by people using Ripoffreport, oh that is sacred and protected and David will fight to protect it and assail anyone who even questions the content. He will sue innocents to add insult to injury. When you have no business, and you have done nothing, and some nut who is under Federal investigation comes after you for being a witness in a real case, there is absolutely nothing you can do to remove that information from Ripoffreport according to David. Yet here we are seeing other Ripoffreports disappear and get redacted. We even asked multiple times what we would have to PAY to remove the false claims which send a woman to bed in tears very often. ****Edited to remove threats**** *Note from SEOmoz: According to our Blog Policy, we do not permit personal attacks or harrasment or defamation on the Daily SEO Blog. Our goal is to make a wonderful community where ideas are shared and discussed freely. If SEOmoz were to allow threats and accusations about posters' personal lives, then we would be no better than other websites that encourage negative and fruitless argument. We encourage everyone to discuss their ideas and share their experience, but within the boundaries of our Blog Policy: No personal attacks or threats. Comments should add something to the discussion. We realize that people can disagree about what is a personal attack and what is a valuable addition to the discussion. Generally, we try and error on the side of civility and respect for everyone. Thank you for helping us make SEOmoz a place where everyone feels safe to express their ideas.
****Edited to remove threats****
*Note from SEOmoz: According to our Blog Policy, we do not permit personal attacks or harrasment or defamation on the Daily SEO Blog. Our goal is to make a wonderful community where ideas are shared and discussed freely. If SEOmoz were to allow threats and accusations about posters' personal lives, then we would be no better than other websites that encourage negative and fruitless argument. We encourage everyone to discuss their ideas and share their experience, but within the boundaries of our Blog Policy: No personal attacks or threats. Comments should add something to the discussion. We realize that people can disagree about what is a personal attack and what is a valuable addition to the discussion. Generally, we try and error on the side of civility and respect for everyone. Thank you for helping us make SEOmoz a place where everyone feels safe to express their ideas.
Thumbs up to Sarah.
Smitty, love ya, and emphathize but it's Sarah's blog. :-)
I have no idea what was posted, I have never threatened anyone. I do not know why you are responding to these posts Marla, they are over a year old, most of them. I have never claimed this blog as mine, why would you think that? I am not involved with this. I am very sick, what was MS is actually cidp and a brain tumor, and I am in the hospital a lot. There is no need to respond to my posts please. Good luck fighting with these guys. They do not care about anyone or thing. Plz do not respond to me, please. I want to put this as far in my rear view as I can. It upsets me so much. I had no idea this post had been deleted, I have never threatened anyone and you have no idea what this said. ROR has hurt a lot of ppl.
Thanks for this post. I hope it will affect things to come! More people should read this.
Ries
NPR did a story this morning about search engine suppression and they got an interview with Ed Magedson. Fast Eddy claims that the suppression business is a scam and it does not work and that it is an unscupulous business.
He did not mention the fact that several of his CAP members have past and current issues with law enforcement, civil litgations and FTC actions. He did not address that for $7,500.00 he will allow a CAP member to write their own press that he calls verified safe thus suppressing freedom of speech.
The case against Sarah Bird was dismissed in the appeals court. Ripoff Report has never lost a case? Losses are actually starting to build up but in their case, even if they win, they lose. The cost of doing business is paying his attorneys to keep him out of jail. Win or lose the attorneys are happy to spend every penney Magedson has to prove his point.
Hi
Yes, those companies who claim to keep you off of the front page of Google and all the rest are not worth the money, or the salt, they charge. They only bury your report and all that it takes to bring it back is another report, ppl looking you up, etc. In other words, activity. So, they say, we will keep track of it and take care of that. Ummm Hmmm. That is assuming they stay in business. As a stock broker I saw all the dot.coms come and go, nothing to back their legitimacy but air and the internet provides a great platform for hit it and run, dine and dash, etc.
It always strikes me as funny when Ed calls out another business. Now, here is what he should have done, oh wait, he did. That is why he hates these companies. They mess with the CAP program. Oh Yes. See, if you have ever read some of them, they are bizarre. I am not saying that the little halo is not on them, I just have not seen one with it,, or I am looking for it in the wrong place. And, if my memory is correct, on a lot of them, the bad report is gone and in it's place you find a glowing loving ass kissing review from Ed himself about the wonder and joy of this company, how they strive to always do the right thing, and gag adnauseum. And, then he puts a commercial in there for the CAP. Sometimes the bad reports have been below his bogus crap, but not always. So, when you do Google, you get that first line that says they are a company next to God.
And, he changes the number that is assigned to the report. As I understand it, all the reports have an assigned number and that number determines how you show up when you are searched on the engines. So, if I understand it, you go from a number that assigns you to page one to page 11 or something like that, unlikely to ever show up on a search.
But hold up, what if you stop paying the monthly CAP fee, cause you don't just pay a one time fee premised on how many reports are on ROR about you or your company. You also pay monthly to infinitum to keep new ones from going on, etc. Well, I found one of those. And, all the bad reports were pulled back to the top with a message that they were no longer part of the CAP program, etc. The only reason that could be is they got tired of paying the extortion monthly fees and so they became another casualty who paid a bunch of money for nothing.
I sometimes wonder if I commit suicide will they take my reports down? If I die, will they leave them up? What do you think? I am NOT involved in any ongoing cases against ROR. I am not a witness or involved by MY choice. You can only deal with so much. And I do not ever see any morals or ethics being developed by the owner of that site or the attorneys. It is what it is. The law will have to be changed. If they are shut down, others will pop up, but once one goes, the others will be easy to win.
So, fellow vicitims of Ed Magedson and lot, I am weary and tired and can find no peace with any of it. They lose every case because they are shiftless and continue to hurt ppl. They have NO victories. The lawyers over there can put fear in the lawyers of the victims by threatening to sue them, and get cases closed, whatever they want. Ed can act like a baffoon in court, deriding ppl for their appearance or negative attributes, yes, but he is a loser because he makes a living helping ppl hurt ppl and if and when those scales are ever balanced, I wish him luck. I hope that all those bottom feeders who are making a living off of him are there to bandage his psycological wounds when he finally deals with all of this. I hope. I feel really sorry for them all.
My question is where does he get all this money from?
Shakedowns and sell outs. He sells posters information to attorneys for a piece of the class action.
He also had his hands in the Bitter Buyer scam.
What is ironic is he sued complaintsboard.com and tried to get $150k. complaintsboard is in Latvia and did not respond so a default judgment for $60,000.00 was awarded, far less than $150k. However when they tried to collect they somehow ran up $66k in investigative fees.
There is a history of throwing fees against the wall to see if it sticks.
Whats really nutty is that Xcentric Ventures sued complaintsboard and pissed consumer for copyright infringement. It was alleged that both were taking complaints off ROR and adding them to their own site.
SEO companies then set up Goolge alerts so that they see the latest complaints and spam you urgent messages that you have a negative posting. They encourage you to join their suppression program.
Some of these SEO guys have a deal with some of the sites out there to remove negative postings. So some SEO guys are duplicating negative material on a person, spamming you and then working out a deal to remove what was posted. Many of the SEO guys are owned by the same people.
Ripoff Report has a deal with pissed consumer to remove offending material about them and or CAP members.
There is a new site call scamfound who is out of Vietnam. He takes the RSS feeds from Complaintsboard and adds them to his own site.
The SEO business is huge and getting bigger and its no wonder. New defamation sites are popping up all the time.
Shakedowns and sell outs. He sells posters information to attorneys for a piece of the class action.
He also had his hands in the Bitter Buyer scam.
What is ironic is he sued complaintsboard.com and tried to get $150k. complaintsboard is in Latvia and did not respond so a default judgment for $60,000.00 was awarded, far less than $150k. However when they tried to collect they somehow ran up $66k in investigative fees.
There is a history of throwing fees against the wall to see if it sticks.
Whats really nutty is that Xcentric Ventures sued complaintsboard and pissed consumer for copyright infringement. It was alleged that both were taking complaints off ROR and adding them to their own site.
SEO companies then set up Goolge alerts so that they see the latest complaints and spam you urgent messages that you have a negative posting. They encourage you to join their suppression program.
Some of these SEO guys have a deal with some of the sites out there to remove negative postings. So some SEO guys are duplicating negative material on a person, spamming you and then working out a deal to remove what was posted. Many of the SEO guys are owned by the same people.
Ripoff Report has a deal with pissed consumer to remove offending material about them and or CAP members.
There is a new site call scamfound who is out of Vietnam. He takes the RSS feeds from Complaintsboard and adds them to his own site.
The SEO business is huge and getting bigger and its no wonder. New defamation sites are popping up all the time.
This has been taken from a current case. For those of you that want to speak out against any of the parties here need to understand what you are facing. David S. Gingras seems to have a vested interest in the activities of Ripoff Report that go beyond representing his client. If you talk to others about this look for David Gingras and his associates to cut a deal to rat you out. Freedom of speach?
This case is also about the way Defendants silence dissenters through fear, intimidation, retaliation, threats and shame.
Defendants can no longer claim that all Reports are written by third parties. OnAugust 6, 2010 Defendants personally wrote and posted a Ripoff Report about awitness for his participation in this case.
The previously-unavailable Second Questionnaire confirms that even if Defendants content that the Reports do not generally “come down,” Defendants knowingly advertise that, for money (1) CAP investigations may result in a complete retraction of the Report; and (2) Defendant will alter the text and HTML code on Reports to change how it appears in Internet search engine results.
New evidence obtained for the first time after July 19, 2010 shows that not all HTML code for Reports is automatically generated. By express agreement, defendants manually redact, alter HTML and metatags for web pages aboutReports to influence Google search results under agreements for payment, eitherunder CAP or in settlements.
On July 16, 2010, Plaintiffs discovered that Reports have been removed or deactivated following a breach notice from a party who executed a $100,000 promissory note to Defendants.
Pursuant to a mutual settlement of claims and counter-claims between Defendants and the (redacted) parties, the latter agreed to pay Defendants $100,000, and Defendants agreed to inject a block of words beginning “Notice: This report is false and fake. .. .” into the beginning of the title of the three Reports about the settling party
Defendants’ counsel, David Gingras, admitted in a declaration first provided to Plaintiffs’counsel on July 14, 2010, that Defendants have redacted a subject’s name to remove it from search results (“redacting material from the site is much mor complicated than simply deleting a file”).
A website operator who edits user-created content-such as by correcting spelling, removing obscenity or trimming for length-retains his immunity for any illegality in the user-created content, provided that the edits are unrelated to the illegality. However, a website operator who edits in amanner that contributes to the alleged illegality-such as by removing the word “not” from a user's message reading “[Name] did not steal the artwork” in order to transform an innocent message into a libelous one-is directly involved in the alleged illegality and thus not immune.
Defendants offered on July 20, 2010 to redact Plaintiffs’ names from Rip-off Reports about them in exchange for payment of $35,000 or $50,000 and dismissal of claims. Plaintiffs now understand that Defendants will offer to redact names out of Reportsfor money, insert new text or disclaimers of the Reports, even if the Reports are not taken down and the moneyis characterized as attorneys’ fees.
When Mr. Magedson’s statement that “Reports happen to everyone” is combined with the fact that Defendants personally wrote and posted a Ripoff Report on August 6, 2010 (No. 629379) about witness Kenton Hutcherson in the category “Attorneys & Legal Services” for his testimony in this action (see discussion, below), Defendants’ statement that Ripoff Reports “happen” is morthan an observation – it is a threat.
David Gingras in Further Support of their Motion for Summary Judgment. DN-77at 19. Page 4 of the May 11, 2010 letter sets forth what appears to be Defendants“playbook” settlement demand: (1) dismissal; (2) a round number in attorneys’ fees (here, $25,000) and (3) incriminating evidence about Defendants’ “enemies.”
I have an idea on how to do some payback to ripoffreportand would like to get some advice from the SEO experts here.
I am aware of the google double content rule that makes google punish websites for double content,for example if i copy entire wikipedia pages to my website google will punish me for that with low rankings.so far if this is correct then my question is:
WHAT IFi start to copy the content of entire wikipedia pages into the ripoffreport complaints i want to remove from google. will that not cause google to lower the rankings of the specific ripoffreport(having it penalized for for double content).of course ED assmanson and his ripoff ghouls team will eventually remove the double content bogus comment but if each of usdoes this on the ripoffreports he finds offending he will have a lot of work , and each time they removewe can always add new copied content again.what do you guys think?
another blackhat idea add posts that send to a link that is for a blacklisted/spam containing sitewhich may cause google to penalize the webpage(and eventually the entire ripoffreport website).
any seo expert here can give more insights on this?
Hi,
Here is the problem with this.
If you go and put a report on ROR about Ed Magedson, it never gets posted to the site. Oh, it shows in your reports under your screen name, if you look at your account, they do not delete it, but they never, ever post it for anyone to see.
If they changed the name of the big head knocker at Google to protect his reputation, and Ed recently gave some outlandish reason why under oath in a deposition, your doubling up theory will not work. Google is in bed with them it seems, imo.
They make a lot of money because of Google and vice versa. So, no one will ever see and therefore ROR will not be breaking TOS. But wait, they DO already not follow TOS for Google.
Have you read Googles TOS, and have you read their philosophy? I encourage you to do so.
FYI, Ed is in court now and it is not looking so good. He is not being truthful. Says no one knows his addy at ROR ([email protected]) Anyone here ever had a problem seeing it right there on the site? Where it is published for us all?
Right now it is critical for all you dissenters who have wanted a lawsuit, to shut down the site, etc., to get active with the links I sent the other day and to contact your senators, congressmen, the FTC, etc.
I am going to cut and paste a letter that says this more eloquently than I can and points you to these places. all I can say is here is your chance. It is easy to come here and belly ache but now is the time. Please.
Good Summary Thelma!
My question has always been: What formal training has Ed Madgeson completed to entitle him to be OUR Judge, Jury, Investigator, Detective, Mediator and business expert?
Does he have a law degree? Police training? Formal investigative experience. Has he sat on business boards as a committe member and contributed by creating business prototypes?
Has ANY business EVER paid to be a CAP member and been decided by ED NOT to be in "TOTAL CUSTOMER SATISFACTION?" No. Everyone who pays, receives the CAP Seal of approval.
And if you don't pay, you're left to hire an attorney, paying $20K to file a suit in a futile effort to receive an IP post of an anonymous author on a rampage. Lawsuits are expensive, emotionally draining and time consuming. And guess what? If they know they can post again, without being caught, they will and DO on Rip Off Report.
That's the problem. As a victim, the laws should provide protection on both sides. As it stands today, we're helpless unless we have a large bank account.
It's critical to support the Bill, Smitty and I are proposing to congress. Connecting everyone together is the key to our success. Smitty and I are determined to champion this bill, and be the voice for every victim.
Great write up, Sarah! As an SEO for a leading national mortgage servicer, I know how difficult it is to monitor and control online reputation, much less knock down sites like ROR and ComplainstBoard in the SERPs.
Go RICO!!
Timothy Wagner, JD, MPH
So we have finally finished our outline to change the laws when it comes to annonymous defamatory posting.
We are calling on all busineses who wish to band together help get this bi-law passed.
Please contact me to get a copy of the outline.
youcanthidebehindtheinternet at gmail dot com
Thank you
Hey, can you contact me off site? message me here and I will give you my email. We are doing some of the same things, plus more and would love to band together.
Hi there,
I already e-mailed you & didn't get a response back.
TTYL
Michelle
Umm, yes you did and yes I did. We had several emails, I don't know why you think I did not respond. I did. Good luck. I just forgot who ep2002 was.
Ahhhh, I see you sent another. Sorry about that. I do not ever go to that addy and I did not recognize the seo name as it is different from the email and blah blah. I sent you a response and another email so I iwll not miss any of your emails going forward.
And an e-mail back to you : )
Hello all,
Ok, things are moving along and we need you all to go to this site that I am going to leave a link to, this is really important, and sign this petition.
Send your friends, your relatives. We need 1000 signers. We have under 400 right now, so please do this. You will be glad. Please do this.
https://gopetition.com/petitions/remove-rip-off-report-from-google.html
Also, please go to this site. Under the take action tab, there are three Google emails that you can use to show your displeasure with their relationship with ROR. I cited to them that their company philosophy stated at number 6 of 10 "to do no evil".
https://www.reportsripoff.com/contact.php
Well done. One question I have is whether anyone has taken the situation to their local prosecutor. Extortion/black mail is illegal and the fact that someone is doing it over the next net does not make it any less so. Civil lawsuits may take years, but a few criminal prosecutions would quickly bring things to a head. Get the right U.S. Attorney involved and watch the fireworks begin.
His testimony clears him in my mind. Just because the email says its from his email address doesn't mean it is. In php: mail('[email protected]','Post inflammatory content please','Do it now','From: Ed Magedson <[email protected]>');
Can you clarify what you're referring to Jonny?
Mr. Z,
I can't speak for Mr. Rash, but I believe he is referring to an excerpt of Magedson's testimony that I linked to in my post above.
In this part of the deposition, he is asked about an email written from [email protected] to a disgruntled employee. The email can be construed as soliciting inflammatory content. If the email is legitimate, it helps to build an argument that RoR shouldn't be able to benefit from CDA immunity.
The question is whether the email is legitimate. Magedson denies sending it and suggests that someone faked ("spoofed") his email account.
Only Ed knows the truth. The rest of us have to read the transcripts and make an independent judgment call about credibility.
Ahh I see. Makes sense. Of course it seems extremely obvious now that its been pointed out to me. :-P
Well in my "totally objective" opinion I'd call BS on Mr. M. But only time will truely tell.
I believe in that case, Ed later submitted corrective testimony that he did, in fact, send the emails in question.
A fantastic read, thank you, Sarah...
I do agree that we all have to thank CDA for the existance of user generated content as well as we also should thank DMCA for the existance of YOUTube, Flickr and the like... But still don't you think that the freedom web2.0 is granting us with makes it really easy for the offender to escape and really hard for the suferer to seek the justice?
BTW any chance to read some details on DMCA in your upcoming glamorous posts, Sarah? I would be interested to find out for example how DMCA and Berne copyright convention can coexist (as far as I can judge conflict each other)...
If you are a ripoffreport victim. if you have been personally harmed by this website please file a complaint at:
www.ic3.gov
Elmar of Beverly HIlls, CA January 14, 2010
We are a worldwide company. Three days ago we stumbled on a fraudulent report from Ripoffreport.com The judicial system in USA is not capable to deal with Magedson-types. Attorneys are stumped. FBI told us that they know of this thief, and recommended we filed with www.ic3.gov.
We advise all those victimized to do the same. Since our company does projects worldwide, and the report seems to have been posted in April 2009, we estimated potential losses at millions. The form on www.ic3.gov doesn't allow figures higher than 9,999,999. That is what we posted. Each business victimized should make a sensible assessment of potential loss due to damaged reputation, and file complaints at the site indicated above.
Eventually, if many enough victims file, and the amounts are scandalous, it is conceivable that a motion will be made somewhere in the USA to alter the existing legal framework that allows despicable individuals like Magedson to exist and operate. There is a need for young, energetic and creative attorneys to come up with an effective tool in this regard. We are searching. Are you?
Read more: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/ripoffreport.html#ixzz0nuDbMy4z
I'm not defending the tactics RipOffReport uses; I'm not a fan of extortion under any circumstances. But on looking over the list of cases, I thought I recognised one of the company names. I haven't been able to locate the blog post I recall, in which a blogger was threatened with drastic legal action for posting about her experience with a certain company, and her opinions of that company. But I Googled "Cambridge Who's Who", and most of the results I get suggest it was the company I was thinking of.
If indeed Cambridge Who's Who does half of what they're accused of in those links, then in that case at least, it seems to have been two buckets of slime battling it out with each other. I know nothing about any of the other companies listed. I do know many scammers are among the most aggressive at protecting their lucrative rackets by trying to twist the law to their advantage. So I wonder how many victims of RipOffReport deserved the anger directed against them in postings.
Anyone who has heard of Cambridge Who's Who may walk away from your post wondering if RipOffReport is being unfairly accused. (I'd already heard of them, and their tactics, too.) It might help the credibility of your remarks against RipOffReport if you also noted any hints of wrongdoing on the part of any of their opponents. I understand you're legally responsible for what you post, but pointing out the widespread nature of complaints against a company in Google search results surely doesn't count as defamation. Those results are facts. If the accounts those links lead to are lies, then it would be the posters of those accounts who would be liable.
Personally, I'd love to see RipOffReport shut down, replaced by an honest site that allowed the word to be spread about scammers. Surely there must be some fair mechanism to let those who have been ripped off have their say. (Company responses mean nothing - do you really think a scammer is going to come clean just because he's accused?) Once such a fair mechanism was established, I'd love to see the site that built it gain a place high in Google's rankings. Yes, it would ruin the reputations of some businesses - but as long as those were likely businesses that had done something to deserve it, that would be a good thing. After all, every scammer in a particular niche ruins the reputations of every legitimate business in that niche.
How do I find out more about how to file a lawsuit against Rip Off Report?
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/CIgDZRdBe08&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/CIgDZRdBe08&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
Here is a link because it didn't embed properly - grrrrreat report!
https://www.youtube.com/v/CIgDZRdBe08
Here are some facts. They tried to force that video down by filing an injunction and they lost.
David Gingras Esq, who has posted here in the past showed up as a witness. He said that as a result of the video, they would no longer easily dismiss assertions that that ED created content and as a result would be sued into bankruptcy.
In what they thought would counteract the video a post was created on ROR that discussed the honesty of the people testifying and of course the investigator who got them to talk. It was claimed they were all liars of course, that it was staged and they were actors.
In a brilliant legal move, the young woman on the video was deposed by Rip Off Report's legal team. She testified everything she and her father said in the video was true and much much more.
It also became clear that at one point she was the client of Maria Crimi Speth, Rip Off Reports legal counsel, who had called her a liar at one point. Perhaps that young womans veracity should have been established before she bacame a client but I suppose that since that case was dismissed in Federal court, there was no longer a need for her.
She also suggested that private investigators were trying to get her father to recant his statements. The investigator that filmed their statements did receive a call from that man asking for help because he was being threatened. This would not be the first time something like this has happened.
The investigative files will soon be available to the public, including the first part of the video. It is not suggested that this is cause to file a law suit and in fact the video disclaimer forbids the use of the video without consent of the owner. Look at it all you want. It's just my way of filing a rebuttle, somwthing the RIp Off Report encourages.
Thank you for your work. What do you recommend we do about this? (ROR)
The video isn't a cause of action for you to file a suit. You have to find the truth. Once you do that then you will have what you seek. Again...I haven't given anyone permission to use my work product. Yet.
One more thing.
If anyone has the information please post here as much information as you can about:
David Gingras General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC [email protected]
Any current Info and information about his past problems etc....
we feel that the public should know as much information as possible regarding this unethical attorney with a problematic past.
A website is planned to be created about "David Gingras" regarding his contribution and active role in the ripoffreport scam operation, So that after the ripoffreport site will be shut down his potential customers should be warned about who they are dealing with before hand when googling his name.
The following information was found online:
David Gingras, Esq.General CounselXcentric Ventures, LLChttps://www.ripoffreport.com/[email protected]PO BOX 310, Tempe, AZ 85280Tel.: (480) 668-3623 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (480) 668-3623 end_of_the_skype_highlightingFax: (480) 248-3196
David S Gingras lives at 4072 East Mountain Vista Drive, Phoenix, AZ 85048with his lovely blond wife. In a single family home with a pool. 3 bath, 1705 sf on a 4208 sf lot.His home has lost $100,000 in value. from a 2006 high of $370k to current $207KHis lawyer number for Bar complaints in Arizona is #021097He is also the lawyer of record for hollywoodsextapes.com and a site called thedirty.comHis sister is Kathy Gingras Hill. She is married to Cooper J. Hill.She has three beautiful children and is experiencing 'the happiest time in her life".
Here are all David S. Gingras facebook friends to write with information about David's wonderful support of the porn industry.
Adam Seymour KunzAdina RauchwergerJohns HopkinsAlvaro VictoriaAndy McDanielAnette BeebeAnna AbbateAnne SilverAnthony ChavezAri GoldenBen SmithBilly LesterBrian BleierChip MallariChrissy FoleyChristian SchlotterbeckChristine Sundquist AveyCooper J. HillCorey BirchCristin OlanderDan HulsizerDavid Carter CableDavid PaulingJones DayDominic JonesEd GingrasEd NewellEric BartlettEric GoldmanErica LeatonFred SmithGary JaburgGary L Parker JrGene Fauro PrattGreg LockwoodGretchen DePauwHarty BrownHayley SmithHope LemonsJ.R. HubbardJack GingrasJane ParkinJason TuretzkyJeff MennickJen ConnerJen Nye LudwigJennifer PhoenixJennifer Trent MillerJennifer ValentineJerry SimmonsJessica Jaramillo NoblesJim BurnettLeslie RogalUIllinoisLisa AysonLisa EsselsteinLisa Smith JustinLiz KirkpatrickLucky BreakMarc John RandazzaMaria Crimi SpethMark AlevizonMark McLarryMary Edwards LennonMary Gilman YaxColdwell Banker BainMatt BellMatt RobinsMichael MennickReno, NVMichaela SpillingMichele FlorianiMichele Morley EdemMichelle SavageMike PeadonMitchell ReichmanPhoenix, AZMolly McAlpineNik RichieOyd BunglePatrick Erin FogartyPatrick KnodlePeter NowellPiper Stern GillmanRachel BohlRima RhodeyRobyn SantucciSal AbbateSarah Bartlett MarquisSean PateT.C. WilliamsTara Kane RinderknechtTony MeciaTraci Schraufnagel LockeWilliam Fischbach
Mr. David S Gingras Firm/Organization: Gingras Law Office PLLC Mailing Address: 4072 E Mountain Vista DrPhoenix, AZ 85048 Telephone: 480-570-6157 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 480-570-6157 end_of_the_skype_highlighting Fax: 480-248-3196https://www.azbar.org/legalresources/MF_Detail.cfm?ID=153732&SearchPageOffset=0look up his suspension... alcohol, mood altering drugs?
06-2059 Disposition Summary David S. Gingras Bar No. 021097 File No. 06-2059 Supreme Court No. SB-08-0157-D/R By Arizona Supreme Court judgment and order dated December 5, 2008, David S. Gingras, 3200 N. Central Ave., 20th Fl., Phoenix, AZ was suspended for 30 days. He was placed on probation for two years and is required to participate in the State Bar’s Member Assistance Program (MAP). He was also assessed the costs and expenses of the disciplinary proceedings. Mr. Gingras was reinstated effective February 19, 2009. Mr. Gingras was conditionally admitted to the State Bar and required to enter into a MAP contract. The MAP contract specified that Mr. Gingras was to completely abstain from using alcohol, other drugs, or any other mood-altering or mind-altering chemicals for three years. Mr. Gingras violated the terms of the MAP contract and was arrested for driving under the influence. Mr. Gingras pled guilty to driving while impaired to the slightest degree. Three aggravating factors were found: dishonest or selfish motive, refusal to acknowledge wrongful nature of conduct and illegal conduct. Seven mitigating factors were found: absence of prior disciplinary record, personal or emotional problems, timely good-faith effort to make restitution or to rectify consequences of misconduct, full and free disclosure to disciplinary board or cooperative attitude toward proceedings, character or reputation, imposition of other penalties or sanctions and remorse. Mr. Gingras violated Rule 42, Ariz.R.Sup.Ct., ER 8.4(b) and Rule 53(g), Ariz.R.Sup.Ct.***************REINSTATEMENT SUMMARY****************David S. Gingras Bar No. 021097 File No. 06-2059 Supreme Court No. SB-08-0157-D/RBy Arizona Supreme Court judgment and order dated February 19, 2009, David S. Gingras, 3200 N. Central Ave., 20th Fl., Phoenix, AZ, was reinstated as a member of the State Bar.
Okay Sue, here is something that I need answered. I put four reports on there, all factual, but not consumer, personal. In a time of strife, I have cognitive MS, I begged ROR to remove them almost immed. Most ppl here already know, my spouse confessed to multiple affairs May of 08 with 13 years the latest with my best friend. We were married 37 yrs at the time. Three of the seven affairs were my friends. I was destroyed. Have no idea how I even found that site. I have enjoyed a long career as a stock broker, I have been a professional and this is NOT my lifestyle nor normal behavior. I have been disabled due to my MS since 2006. So, one of the women placed three reports about me on there six or so months later that are blatant retaliatory lies, two of which are gone. There is only one report remaining on there. But, if any of the three reports on the women are googled, for some reason, my report comes up with theirs. The fourth report is on my spouse. The biggest thing is I have grandchildren, I was not in my right mind when I did this, not thinking clearly, just in a unbelievable amount of pain.
The FBI thing. How would that work? Would I be the target? Are personal reports part of this consideration? One of the women lost her job, however the report was one sentence, and I am comfortable to say she is the author of the other reports. She has made noise about suing me. Upon her being able to get an attorney to get IP addys, her reports are lies, mine was not, and she would be at risk, not me. She says she is not the author, but she does admit to having an acct with ROR, for a report she put on there about a mortgage company, which is not on there. She is a pathalogical liar. My husband will be the star witness, and I can get the hotel records from their visit and she paid with a credit card.
Please tell me how this would work. I want ROR out of business as much as the next person, but I have nothing. There is nothing for anyone to take, to sue me to get. And, there are no lies in any reports nor long reports. Plus, I have begged, by phone and email, since I put them on to have them removed, within a month of them being put on. My mental status and decision making ability was not up to par. I can document all that with doctor reports. And, it is not consumer. Just bad, nasty gossip. It should not be there, they should not even allow it if they are indeed, "for the consumer". But that does not mean she may not try to hurt me. Can you shed light on how this process works? Do we go after ROR or the authors?
You would think that by now Google would have seen this ever growing lone blog post and realize they are on the wrong side of this and take action.
We know they are aware of it - even Matt Cutts has supported them - and ultimately this could hurt Google.
The FTC and their stance on blogs for pay in a turn around view, the push about antitrust and Google actions, the inclusion of Google in a suit against RoR and the general push back against RoR could see some changes coming.
Your one hope may lie with Google, but how are you going to PROVE that they are in bed with ROR? How? For some reason it keeps getting stated on here that MSN and several other search engines will not work with ROR and that is not true. They pick up ROR as well. One search engine will not give a live link nor the title line, it will only say that there is a report on this person available at ROR. But, by doing that, they are still sending ppl to ROR.
There has yet to be a judge, to my knowledge, that has cared one whit about this. Where are the civil liberties ppl? Where are the law makers who put this wonderful CDA law into effect? There was a strong contingency of that group who brought all these problems that we are dealing with up at the time this law was put together. They made noise about this, but no one listened.
Personally, I am so discouraged, I am just waiting for him to disappear from the face of the earth, he is broke and the site to do likewise. That is my only hope at this time. You cannot get money from something that has no money. And, how are you going to prove Google's involvement? You can prove that they are breaking their own terms of service. But, they also put reports from other places as well.
Look at the New York Lawsuit:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/26578126/Seth-Greenky-v-Jeffrey-Joslin-Xcentric-Ventures-LLC-RipoffReport-com-COMPLAINT
I read the lawsuits, but honestly, do you think that the struggling actor has 2 million dollars? or his co.? And, it appears he is hitting ROR once alone and the in tandem with Google.
First of all, he has no proof that the ROR was written by the actor without the IP addys and I am sure that he does not have them. I am shocked that a lawyer took that case. It also sounds like most of what was in the report maybe very well be true. What then?
It seems like a weak case to me. But, take someone like my friend who has a new report put on ROR against her company every single day, the person must get out of bed and a regimine 1. use bathroom.2. eat cereal 3. shower 4. dress 5. comb hair 6. post ROR report on so and so 7. drive to work. It is sickening.
Technically Google makes money from the adsense income they generate from RoR - they are content partners.
Even if they pass the FTC test - the symbiotic relationship and the lack of regard for the large documented feedback against RoR could be used in the antitrust case - Google clearly works in its own self interest and having such a large percentage of the market of listing web sites based on various defined filters should ultimately make them responsible for it.
I don't know, they make money off of so many, I think that they have the money to bring the best lawyers to court and I just don't think it would fly. I, personally, hold Google in the same regard as ROR, do believe that they are more than just passing business entities, especially since ROR changed the report with the big head knocker's name at Google on it.
One thing that would help is all the documentation that we have contacted Google over and over and begged them to stop carrying the cover line, expressing the losses of income, reputation, the lack of legitimacy of the persons writing the reports, etc. But, if you did it from their site, it is gobbled up by them. You need to do it from your own email or certified snail mail.
To make this thing work you need some excellent legal advise. A group of angry ppl, justifiably so, will not get this done. There has to be a head to the snake so that when it strikes it is lethal. Right now we are a potentially lethal snake with no head. And again guys, Ed has nothing left. No attorney is going to take this unless he wants a lot of publicity, a movie made about it because if this thing is done correctly, all exposed it could be huge. There is a type of extortion going on. They are now sending out emails or calling ppl who are on ROR and offering them 250. to bury their report or do the advocacy thing. ROR is doing that. That is a far cry from 5000 isn't it. They are broke.
Hey Smitty,
Post one of those emails and let us know how you found out about that.
Also, stay positive. The end is near. I guarantee it.
I personally never received it but I know someone who did, I will ask her to send it. I was shocked at how low the amt. was they asked of her. She is the one who has daily reports filed on her.
Good day everyone, I guess it's time for me to join in the discussion since I was recently featured on the Ripoff Report.
https://www.seoconsultants.com/ror/
I'm sure most of you know that I use the ROR on a regular basis when performing research so I can't really whine too much, that would be the proverbial pot calling the kettle black. :)
I am going to take the steps necessary to see this through to the end. I'm currently assembling a large collection of documents and maybe one smoking gun related to the Corporate Advocacy Program. I know of a company who is taking advantage of it who continue to rip folks off, on a fairly large scale. I have a few different approaches to take.
My goal is to take that ROR and turn it into a discussion piece for prospects and clients. Many know that I dabble a little in ORM from a brute force perspective, maybe I can apply that same technique in this instance. Researching...
Edward Lewis - ROR 603840
^ I now have a number.
P.S. I had no idea this discussion had grown this many legs, bravo!
Hey Ya'll,
Well, seems ole Ed and/or his attorneys, have cut a deal with Judge Alex. They are going to start working together to get their cases from ROR's list.
I beg you to go to https://judgealex.com/beontheshow/ and speak out against Judge Alex doing business with ROR. Tell him what ROR is, really, how they get their money, from the CAP program which is extortion imo. Stand up so that Ed and his attornies cannot make money off of anything else. As I understand it there may be other things. We have to stick together on this. There is a night train coming for them all. They have had us riding the cow cars long enough.
GO GO GO BO
I know that it must seem hollow and like it is taking forever when you do not hear from me and Tina. Trust me when I tell you there are reasons. Things, they are a happenin, and we are waitin to see how they play out. We still have out finger on the pulse and know some things and when the time is right will begin again. We love you all, we are united together.
I was never hired to do PI work Ok120. I am a consumer, that happens to be a PI that is offended at the Rip Off Report business model. I have never been paid a dime to investigate them. Something smelled bad to me and I followed my nose.
Solutions to what? Which Yelp case are you referring to? Which Yelp plaintiff attorneys? Are you just running with what Xcentric Ventures attorneys told you via a public forum? This is for more complicated.
I have investigated them for years and am in court with them now. Maybe you should leave it to me because I am not sure your solution and my solution are one and the same. I choose to let the courts decide by jury. Lets the chips fall where they may. At the end of the day there will be another to replace me. Maybe you?
Look at the video brother. I put myself out there for them to have at me and they have certainly given it their best shot.. What solution do you refer to? The freedon of speech solution? The extortion solution?
Some people on the Rip Off Report told the truth. Do you wish to hide that? No of course you don't. You would like the truth to be told. In order to do that you need to know what is the truth and what is a lie.
To my knowledge, the Yelp "issue" has not been entirely dismissed. The attorneys I refer to are the attorneys that brought the Yelp case forward which are:
Jared H. Beck & Elizabeth Lee Beck
https://www.beckandlee.com/jared.html
Harvard Law Graduate
email: [email protected]
email: [email protected]
305-789-0072
Greg Weston
https://www.westonfirm.com
emaill: [email protected]
858-488-1672
Above, I stated:
Jared, Elizabeth and Greg are the attorneys leading the charge in the class action lawsuit against Yelp. Yelp is described in the following manner here:
https://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-04-22/news/yelp-has-buckled-to-pressure-but-it-ain-t-enough/
"They're the modern-day Mafia. Maybe they're not holding a gun to my head, but they're playing the same game," says Taylor, who is also a plaintiff in the lawsuit. "It's too late for policy changes to help out. I just hope all this negative publicity finally tarnishes the company."
---> Sounds kind of like ROR, doesn't it?
There are a variety of unique ways which ROR are screwing people over, and I basically have cited specific people on a massive scale who have held Yelp to task (attorneys) and actually filed a class action lawsuit on behalf of many Plantiffs. The issue IS NOT dismissed.
Also, these same ACTUAL attorneys I can tell you ARE aware of the ROR situation. And it is NOT clear to me they are NOT interested in representing "us" as in ANYONE negatively affected by ROR at this point.
If you have any ACTUAL people who are willing to listen to this and help - in ANY regard - for ANY problem (extortion, etc.), please paste their names and phone number for us to contact and let us know how you think they can ACTUALLY help.
The solution is for ROR to be held to task as Yelp has. There is an article entitled "Attorneys Declare Victory over Yelp" as Yelp CHANGED their business practices as a result of this class action lawsuit. The attorneys I've cited have been quoted on national news and appeared on TV Shows. Trust me "dismissed" or not, it CHANGED Yelp.
https://techcrunch.com/2010/04/06/yelp-class-action/
ROR should and will have the same fate, or it will be bankrupt. However, we still need to create a fuss.
Again, actual solutions would be defined as the end of ROR screwing people and businesses over - period. That's obviously why there are hundreds of comments here and that's why you were likely hired to do PI work, yes? So that's the solution. If you have any ACTUAL solutions to help ACTUALLY stop them from screwing us over, that's what I mean - post them up.
For me it's about the lies of people who aren't even customers. How anyone can get 10 people to post something negative & ROR doesn't care & seems to encourage them.
When I posted the name of the only client who actually posted, ROR deleted it, yet they allowed these people to post my real name.
Will that be brought up in your court case at all?
Thanks
If Google has waived their own algorithmic rules for ROR because they favor it for an editorial reason, then doesn't Google waive their own protection under 47 USC 230? Perhpas RSA wasn't too far off.
Tina, Sue, and Smitty,
I recommend if you guys want to actually do something, you join me and actually contact attorneys who have a similar Class Action Lawsuit going against Yelp right now! Lets ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING that could make a difference aside from complaining.
I recommend contacting these attorneys - I think they may be able to help:
Jared H. Beck & Elizabeth Lee Beck
https://www.beckandlee.com/jared.html
Harvard Law Graduate
email: [email protected]
email: [email protected]
305-789-0072
Greg Weston
https://www.westonfirm.com
emaill: [email protected]
858-488-1672
The tide is turning against ROR. But, the more people and small and large companies that contact these attorneys, who are the ones again that have filed the class action lawsuit against Yelp, then the better chance we all have.
So go ahead - if you have a valid legal claim, it might be worth it to contact them NOW!
"Slander is equal in sin to murder, adultery, and idol worship combined."
https://www.hillel.org/about/news/2008/apr/lsj_lashonhara_07april2008.htm
God's relationship to a slanderer (, Ed):
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/practices/Ethics/Talk_and_Gossip/Types_of_Speech/Gossip_Rumors_and_Lashon_Hara.shtml
God's punishment to slanderers:
https://jasonbehar.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/04/tazriametzora_2.html
I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau late last night. This morning they have already emailed me back that they have closed the file and that they will use my complaint as "information" on the company but will not begin a formal complaint.
No, the BBB only works if the person or business that has a file against them responds and he has had so many hundreds to thousands against him that he ignores until they cannot take anymore. He contends that he is for the consumer but only if he is not the one that the consumer has a problem with.
No, the BBB only works if the person or business that has a file against them responds and he has had so many hundreds to thousands against him that he ignores until they cannot take anymore. He contends that he is for the consumer but only if he is not the one that the consumer has a problem with.
If you want to make a difference, and have your issues resolved, I recommend calling the attorneys I mentioned as they are handling the Yelp Class Action Lawsuit. NOTHING else has been shown so far to have any effect and you are just spinning your wheels. This is the BEST chance we have to justice. So call now. The more people and businesses call, the better chance we perhaps would have towards a class action suit and REAL change and the resolution of YOUR problems.
The case you are referring to has for the most part been dismissed because the defendant filed to move to the Northern District of California where another case exists and where the defendant is.
Reasonably they can choose to add to that existing case if the other plaintiff and courts agree or refile in that district.
You should consider getting a Pacer account so you can follow along and not just be lead by those with a disingenuous agenda.
In a class action there has to be a plaintiff. Who do you suggest that is? Someone has to pay the attorney fees. These guys aren't in it for benevolence, it's about a pay day. The attorneys don't care about you, they care about their cleint which means at the end of the day they will settle or whatever is in the best interest of their client.
This is not about principle to them. It's about dollars and cents. When the client has spent $50,000.00 in legal fees, it will become about dollars and cents to them too instead of principle. That's why everyone settles.
Yelp attorneys have nothing to do with Rip Off Report. Pay them and they will take an interest. They will spend every dollar you have to prove your point or not.
Money talks.
What will remain inportant here is that Yelp immediately changed the way they did things when sued. David S. Gingras Esq has made it clear that they are keenly interested in what the courts will decide about the extortion end of the claims suggesting that perhaps they will look at their business model if the courts find extortion existed in the Yelp suit.
How are the two related? It was alleged in Yelp that the negative complaints were placed at the top of the posts if the object of the post did not pay to become a customer. It was alleged that customers could pay to have their negative posts deleted or altered or moved from the top posting. It was alleged that the same complaint would show up in posts but under different names. It was claimed that sales reps for Yelp did this to force people to become customers. Is this the same business model for Rip Off Report? Not for me to say, it's for the courts.
I am not an attorney. Pull the complaint and read it.
The importance here is this extortion? The courts will decide. If they find that it is then you will see some real action take place.
Either way though, dodge 100 law suits bullets and thats good. It only takes one to kill you though.
Read the actions in the court action and have a real dialogue.
Paladin,
They Yelp attorneys - at least some - ARE aware of the ROR situation. And they have not indicated, to my knowledge, they are NOT interested in it.
When you have a better resolution, please share it.
However, I'm sure the Yelp case is not OVER. The Plantiffs for the ROR case are likely READING THIS NOW. Or will read it.
Again, if you have actual solutions, gladly I would love to hear them.
I received an interesting phone call from a woman that claims she is going to sue Maria Crimi Speth and file a bar complaint. She alleges that she was sent paperwork and was requested to send $1,500.00 to Maria Crimi Speth for an arbitration process.
She claims that if the arbitrator, a (retired judge) rules that the negative post is without merit, a statement of such will be placed above the negative post.
That's $1,500.00 for each post. I have to wonder who gets the money.
Many have seen the video at www.paladinpi.com and youtube. When it came out ED created a rip off report post that I was in league with several other people and that the video was rehearsed and orchistrated.
In later depositions it turned out that neither of the those claims are true. True doesn't seem to matter since David S Gingras chose to defame me in a deposition for a case I am not even involved in.
Perhaps he should have learned the lessons of Christopher Sharp.
FYI::
Judge To Google: Tell NYer Who Harassed Her OnlineCarla Franklin: I've Gone From Humiliated To Empowered
October 20, 2010 7:45 PM
Print Share 1
Google receives more than 200 million search queries a day, more than half of which come from outside the United States. Peak traffic hours to google.com are between 6 a.m. and noon PST, when more than 2,000 search queries are answered a second.
From kevinwshields
NEW YORK (CBS 2) – A New York woman who was harassed online is hoping her case will help put an end to anonymous cyber-bullying.
A judge on Tuesday ordered Google to release the names of the online attackers who made defaming comments about her.
Carla Franklin said she was humiliated when an anonymous cyber-bully posted unauthorized videos of her on YouTube, including offensive comments. The 34-year-old businesswoman fought back and won, reports CBS 2′s Hazel Sanchez.
“I’m feeling vindicated, I’m feeling victorious,” Franklin said. “I’m just so happy that I got my court order.”
Franklin was able to get the video and comments removed by Google-owned YouTube, but that wasn’t enough for her, so she sued Google to reveal the identity of her online offenders.
A Manhattan judge ruled in Franklin’s favor and ordered Google to reveal the names, addresses and phone numbers of the three tormentors, who used the following screen names: “joeboom08,” “jimmyjean008,” and “greyspector09.”
“It was a private matter that needed to be resolved. What was happening to me was unacceptable,” Franklin said. “There was an Internet shrine created for me on YouTube dedicated to Carla Franklin, containing information that could be used to trace me to my job or to my home.”
The information from Google still may not reveal who unleashed the online attack, however.
“Even if you know that there is an Internet Protocol address associated with some wrongdoing, finding out who that person is can be a very, very difficult challenge,” Internet attorney Joseph DeMarco said.
“My issue is not really with Google. My issue is with this person who is doing this,” Franklin said.
Despite the reality that Franklin may never know who her bully is, she said she’s hoping her case will help others who are harassed online.
“Go to the court, stand up for yourself, do not be afraid,” she said. “I was afraid initially. I’m not anymore.”
Franklin said the court order has left her feeling empowered.
Google has until Oct. 29 to give Franklin the information.
Carla's authorized statement has been published here:https://www.FreeSpeechV3.org
REBUTTALS: BAD BAD BAD... TO DAVID GINGRAS, ED MAGEDSON AND JAMES WHOEVER **************************DO NOT USE THE REUTTAL SYSTEM******************************
All three of you have thrown this wonderful way of defending yourselves on ROR into the arena time and again. How marvelous it is and why would any VICTIM of this scandalous site complain? Why we have this marvelous option at hand, we need to just run right in there and have our say and be done with it. You gave us the option, stop belly aching and man up, err, whatever we are.
Well to you all, and any other counsel that you employ or work with I say this. You screw us over for so doing. We have told you time and again that it puts us at the top of the Google search engine, is our experience, and let me emphasis, EXPERIENCE, not just stupid speak, ok? But here is another thing that it does.
YOU have used it to link any and every report where my name is used in a rebuttal to pull up that report along with my original report. In other words, you just screw me royally with your so called rebuttal system. There is one, hear me, ONE report with my name on it on your site. If any of certain three other names are googled, you pull my report up as well, and in some cases, my report is the dominant report and the name googled is the indented one, because my name is in the effing rebuttal. HOW ABOUT THAT FOR YOUR INGENIOUS REBUTTAL SYSTEM?
To any and all of you who would use that system, you are penalized for so doing. If indeed this is NOT so, then if you are disliked for speaking out in a forum such as this (David, Maria, Ed, is this freedom of speech as you scream about for your site?) then they consciously target you and manipulate your report to cause you additional harm and embarrassment, and oh yeah, CDA law violation? Ya think?
The rub is that sooner or later this will come out. Just on the outside chance this is not seen by one of the great minds listed, I will email you David. I want that link undone. More to come.
I have always been puzzled as to why the other owner of Rip-Off Report hasn't been called by plaintiff's counsel for deposition. Or why he is not named in suit as well. They have taken great pains to keep him out of it and there are reasons for that.
How did all those great lawyers miss this? What do all the lawyers think about the fact that employees and contractors were never disclosed. There is a reason for that too. There is a lot of creativity with several people out of Tupper Lake, NY and they are starting to spill their guts.
At my blog, https://www.paladinpi.com/blog/rip-off-report/rip-off-report/
I have put up a new recording, this time between Adam Kunz a Jaburg & Wilk attorney and Danny Scalf, Magedson's agent provocateur. Oddly Adam Kunz and Maria Crimi Speth are using emails that do not belong to Jaburg & Wilk.
Adam is discussing Pizza Hit with Danny Scalf. What you can see here is that he was posting on ROR about Pizza Hut.
https://www.ripoffreport.com/police/apache-junction-poli/sergeant-woody-haywood-apache-y34e8.htm
Danny Scalf aka Frank torelli was not a licensed investigator. He was not a process server. I read the public record for the Pizza Hut case and I don't beleive he was ever disclosed nor were any communications between him and the law firm or Magedson.
So I am asking myself, how many scurilous posts were created by Jaburg & Wilk and ROR agents for the purposes of creating a negative environment for plaintiffs and or defendants, the result of which may have been to get them to settle?
During the Georgae S May suit I saw David Gingras posting about them on Scam.com. is that ethical? Thats a question I will be taking to the bar association.
So you feel sorry for the attorneys?
No, I can be such a bleeding heart, or stupid. Hence, how I can to be here. I realize some of my online and or computer problems could be due to some of this, timing is perfect. It is hard for me to understand ppl, and just evil. Ppl wanting to hurt others, and nasty. what came from me when I found ROR was pure heart break and pain and I will never, ever be free of that. The retaliation report that was posted about me came from a black heart, a mean person who was not content to have torn my world apart, knowing I was sick, knowing that I was a good person, friend, mother and wife. I cannot say I am any of those now. I cannot say that I really exist much any longer. Just grasping at life.
I am surprised that someone hasn't gone after the client's and families of the lawyers and Ed Magedson. Posted about them is such a way that schools would not want the kids to attend. Clubs would not want them as members. Potential client's would not do business with them. Neighbors disturbed at who was living next door.
I suspect that the lawyers will become more known for their losses then their wins.
Outhemail, Indeed we have all that info, but will not stoop to that level as there are kids involved.
Notwithstanding, it is interesting that Adam Kunz's wife seems to have voluntarily and overtly taken her place in the trenches, she apparently runs a busines "Alpha Arms". Although there are no complaints against it on ROR, they have still elected to join the "Ripoff Report Verified Safe" program:
https://authorizedstatement.org/Ripoffreport-Verified-Enablers/Alpha-Arms-Gayle-Kunz-President-Phoenix-AZ.php
I would have thought Adam would have done all in his power to keep his family completely separate from his client's affairs, particularly the likes of Magedson.
Smitty,
I have taken a look at the spam emails coming from your AOL account and can see that it originates from a Yahoo account, specifically
[email protected]
Likely that his email account has been compromised and is being used to send spam with malware links.
Consider calling Yahoo. You can email me from a different email service and I will break down the email for you so you can provide the information to Yahoo.
Connect with me off the board here. Your guy appears to be Ciprian Nica from Romania. Google him.
Hey
I think that as much as I do not want to, I am just going to have to close that email acct. They used to copy me on them and I knew when they went out, but they stopped copying me. I waited for the Charlotte, NC office if the FBI to make up their minds if they were going to help or not. They have an office there for the cyber crimes unit. The agent was really nice but his boss did not take it on, no money lost. Never mind that when you start tracing back all the ip addys you will find them on the black lists as ones also being used for the Nigerian scams, FBI fake scams, etc. They just got back to me last week.
All of them initially trace to yahoo accts.,always a different one. I think that they may create accts for this purpose then delete them. I am not sure. Honestly not one company or faction has given a shit. What they are doing is spoofing. They never access my acct at all. I am not sure even closing it will matter. The FBI said the fix was to close it so they felt it had no priority but I am not sure that will stop it.
Oh, and check this. You know AOL will not talk to you unless you are a paying customer? Well, I get to them thru corporate, and they will, but, they will not allow anyone to use the details from the incoming email to officially trace down the offender. They said they own that information and the police or FBI would have to get their permission before they could work on the details from the senders email. But, they will not do a thing, of course.
I doubt this will affect any of us, but who knows how one thing can lead to another.
This is from one of the numerous newsletters I belong to...
"
Feds Officially Hit Google with a Monopoly Investigation
The Federal Trade Commission slammed Google with subpoenas last week, officially launching a formal investigation as to whether the internet giant has abused its search monopoly. The probe, which has the potential to reshape online advertising, is the most serious threat Google has faced in over 12 years. This probe is unique because it will examine fundamental issues relating to Google's core search-advertising business -- its biggest money maker and the one that most affects the PPC industry.
Let's be clear about what the law states. It is NOT illegal to have a monopoly. It is illegal, however, to abuse it. One issue the FTC may raise in this case is: do Google searches UNFAIRLY steer users to the company's own network of services and publishers at the expense of rival publishers? Many companies, including Expedia, Yelp, and CitySearch complain about the way Google ranks its own services in its "natural" search results, as well as the amount it charges them for placing ads -- an example of its market power to determine which businesses will either scale or fail.
1PlusV, a France-based vertical search company, sued Google yesterday in the Paris Commercial Court for $421 million, claiming its sites were "blacklisted" by Google, which led it to lose almost all its traffic. The company accused Google of manipulating “natural results” through (i) the artificial pushing up of Google’s own services to the first page of search results without giving internet users any chance to differentiate from real organic results and (ii) the discriminatory application of so-called “quality criteria” between competitors and its own services.
My take: Google cannot continue to use its dominance of the Search Results market to also dominate Search Syndication and Display. Google will have to play fair or else pull out of one of these markets, and the most likely market will be search syndication. In the long run, this is outstanding news, as Google's control over your business and revenue will finally come to an end. "
Interesting video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVwrVpPyo9c
the vide was removed when I checked the link
It was really hard for me to read a lot of what your video was pointing to b/c the images & text were so tiny & you went to fast in some places, but I got the jist of it.
Let us know if Google pulls your video. I'm sure the FTC would like to know if they pull it, although you are in AU, but the video is on their server which is in the US.
Thanks for your hard work.
EP2002
Your attorney friend is half right and half wrong. The law that covers debt collections is the fair debt collection practices act. it too is written for consumers and business are exempt. If a consumers rights have been violated there are some real issues.
The Fair Credit Reporting Act is the same. The minute the name of the person goes in to the post, it becomes a consumer issue. To go a little further. ROR is providing information to businesses IE law firms for them to file law suits. Those law suits include the individual and is based upon information gathered by ROR and to ROR.
Law suits by nature are filed with the expectation they will settle and the courts push that by demanded a settlement conference. Sometimes its cheaper to settle than to fight whether you did the deed or not.
If the information in the post is incorrect then it changes the scope of the litigation. If the posts are manipulated by ROR for the purposes of selling the information or forcing someone to join CAP then it becomes a real issue.
According to FCRA, ROR doesn't even have to charge money, they just have to provide the report to third parties. They do this in several ways, one by posting it on line. Two Magedson has side bars with the posters and tells them what to say in the post. Magedson will also release the information about a person (Consumer) as the mood strikes as he did with me.
In the Danny Scalf tapes you can hear him trying to sell information services about an individual to a law firm.
I'm going to wrap this up b/c I'm not paying him & to do any further research into this, he'll want to get paid.
I don't like it, but what can I do.
This is his closing...
"I disagree with (1) his assumption that the use of a individual person's name without more makes the FCRA applicable; and (2) that the information in the report constitutes "consumer credit information" as specifically defined in the FCRA; and (3) that a substantial part of ROR's business is marketing and providing the reports to law firms and other commercial interests. "
and
"
If he's right, every time ANYONE posts something derogatory about the business dealings or character of a named individual, the company/webhost publishing the page suddenly becomes a consumer reporting agency subject to the FCRA. Craziness. Every newspaper in the country could be deemed a credit bureau."
Uh oh, better be careful. you might end up ranking Seomoz for Scientolonutzy.
Some really good points to make note of. Some of the things that protect RoR protect us too. Hopefully someone will belly up to the bar and go ahead with a full fledged court case.
It will happen I think, it finally did with RIAA cases, people were bowing and scraping to them for the longest time and now finally there are a few that have decided to show some backbone. Some have actually won!
Great article!
My experience has been that consumer attorneys love violations that allow for attrorney fees. Where the statute may say the penalty is only $1,000.00 per violation, the attorney fees can so much more. Consumer attorneys will generally take the case on a contingency.
I would put it before the FTC first. If one looks at many of the posts, they will see that the name of the person is part of the tags and comes up in Google.
A judge in Illinois was very clear on a motion ruling that Magedson was trying to sell infomation on class actions for $800,000.00. For that kind of money does does it seem in the best interest of the comser reporting agency to make the post as scurilous as they can?
An associate of Magedsons created a post about me from false information Magedson gave him. The associate then posted that I was a conman. Does that seem like reporting my reputation and character as outlined in FCRA?
Clearly, all boundaries have been blurred, no one knows where to turn, there seems to be so much proof and so liitle ability to use it. I do not understand why any of the violators are still in business. Going way back to forever, there has seemed to be testimony from previous employees, even from Ed himself. I mean, from just a recent case Ed testified that no one had his email address, EDitor@ROR. I mean I saw that and scratched my head. It is all over the site. I do not understand any of this. That is why I just have more or less thrown up my hands. You have so much information, and others have brought forward so much, and then there have been those who have brought so much misguided information. It is so confusing.
One thing I can say for a certaintly, and I mean this sincerely, I would not want to be Ed M for any amount of money. I could not handle all the drama, confusion, constant court hearings, I understand that ppl threaten him so he tries to keep his where abouts secret. How many years has this been going on? He and I are about the same age, we both come from the same generation, love, peace and hair grease, and I cannot understand what he is getting from this. Just thinking back on this with you guys this much makes me almost physically ill. For all his bravado, he loves animals and there is another side to him. Most ppl who live his lifestyle have a difficult time maintaining a relationship that is nurturing and anyone who is under this much stress all the time would be difficult being with. So what is he getting from all of this? So much money has to go into legal expenses. Is he just turned on by the battles? I understand that he is not. He will not ultimately win the war, I truly believe that, and what he is losing along the way, for me, would not be worth it. It reminds me of that one frigging car that is so damn impatient behind you on the freeway. Riding your ass, you move over, and you are already almost ten miles over the limit. They fly by you, all huffing and puffing, their blood pressure raging. And when you get two miles down the road, you are beside them again. And you think, wtf did they accomplish? Nothing. We are here at the same time, but they will probably die young. And, that is Ed. He will end up at the same place, have so little joy in his life getting there, have hurt so many ppl and I think this will all haunt him one day, karma is a bitch, and end up at the same place and maybe die younger because of the stress. Why?????
I don't hate him any longer. I feel badly for him. He had trapped himself into a maze of hatred and disgust and pain. And the other players? David, when I saw him in LA, and then when I have seen him on Dr. Phil, I was surprised at the surprise on his face. I don't know, I think that he is in the middle of something here. I like him. And, he, like the rest, are all going to face something down the road. It may not be legal. I deal with my posts. I regret that so much. it is hard to live with regret. No amount of money fixes that.
Screw them...they made their choices. Normally i don't look to hold attorneys responsibile for the acts of the client. They are obliged to represent them and should not be vilified. However...when you break the rules...the rules no longer exist. I am not the guy that you want to be in the same playpen with if the rules are gone.
I have been thinking about turning in my PI license because my job is just about done and I don't need anyone looking over my shoulder for the next round.
Magedson forgets that the whole world does not bow to the CDA. He publishes horrible offensive and defamatory material about non-US citizens (as well as businesses). This is a big mistake because private individuals have nothing to do with consumers so he can't hide behind the 'helping consumers' crap.
This is not freedom of speech. It is profiting from cruelty.
Hell send them to me, I have all kinds of things to add that will be coming out in print anyway. Might as well get started
Before everyone pulls out your wankers, google your name or business name.
It appears that Google lowered the SERP on ripoffreport.com.
I pulled up the ripoffreport.com sitemap and do not see any change in the architecture of the site, thus it has to be Google doing it.
It may be premature but it looks like Google may be leading the charge against any company that would dare to fuck with Googles empire.
Ed has been shitting on Google for years and now its payback time from Google in the form of SERP lowering.
OMG,
I stand corrected. Google has completely de listed ripoff report.
If you attempt to Google "Ripoff Report", it returns wiki and few others but not the actual website ripoffreport.com
I just talked with Maria Speth, the Attorney that represents ROR.
She claims that she has no knowledge of whats going on with the ROR delisting.
She said she thinks that they re being hacked but the website www.ripoffreport.com is online and all of the functionality is working.
I think its fair to conclude that Goggle has had enough of ROR's shit.
If anyone hears anything more on this subject, I am interested in what has happened.
Please call me (254) 291-4696 and ask for Shawn.
Maybe this is permanent and a serious problem has been solved by the mighty Google.
Wow, you are right!
Has anyone checked Yahoo & Bing?
Do you think it will last????
ROR is back online.
Here is the update:
https://searchengineland.com/ripoff-report-not-banned-but-removes-itself-from-googles-index-89000
I'm curious.
Since they were delisted (even if it was only for a few hours), is their PR still the same?
Any chance our pages have been pushed past pages 1, 2, 3, etc.?
Did anyone find out WHO went into their webmaster tools & did this?
Clearly it had to be someone on our side, as it's not that easy to delete yourself from a SE. There are a few steps involved.
Ripoff Report's case against Lisa Borodkin is not over....not by a long shot.
What happened before was the judge dismissed ROR's lawsuit against Ms. Borodkin -- but NOT because he "found" or "determined" that she did nothing wrong. In no way was she "exonerated". Instead, the judge simply said that ROR's Complaint did not include enough facts to demonstrate a valid claim.
This type of ruling might sound like a victory, but its not. This type of dismissal does not automatically end a case unless there are no additional facts that can be added. The prior California lawsuit that Borodkin is being sued for pursuing was extremely long and complicated, and ROR's original Complaint against Borodkin was never intended to include every fact and every detail of what she or the other defendants did wrong. Like all Complaints, it was merely a "summary" of the case.
For whatever reason, the judge felt the summary was too short and did not contain enough detail. Of course, Complaints can also be dismissed when they are too long, so ROR really can't be blamed for trying to keep things simple.
In any event, this issue has been resolved by ROR requesting permission to file an Amended Complaint that contains more facts explaining what Ms. Borodkin allegedly did wrong. If this request is granted, then Ms. Borodkin will be back in the case just as if the original dismissal never occurred. If the request is denied, then the matter will be appealed to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.
If you want to read ROR's proposed Amended Complaint against Ms. Borodkin, a copy is available here:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/117181690/Xcentric-v-Lisa-Borodkin-Proposed-Second-Amended-Complaint
RipOffReport.com Fails In Motion for Leave to Amend Lawsuit Against Attorney Lisa J. Borodkin Source: Rexxfield Internet Law WatchJudge Denies Ed Magedson's Xcentric Ventures, L.L.C., DBA RipOffReport.com attempt to modify lawsuit complaint.
Ruling issued on the same day that ROR stated:
https://www.prweb.com/releases/Ed-Magedson-fails/RipOffReport-lawsuit/prweb10277355.htm
ROR will allow anyone to anonymously write anything they want about any individual. This makes a perfect forum for a person who just plain hates someone else for whatever reason, to try to destroy them online!
A poster. giving no identity and no corroborating evidence whatsoever can call another person a child molester, a rapist or even a murderer. then they can include that innocent persons full name, full address and phone number! They can even add a picture!! This is horrible!! How can this be going on and no one is doing anything about it? When you type your name into google and the first thing that comes up is terrible lies about you it really does crush you mentally and I believe that eventually it will hurt you in reality too! The fact that this is real and is aloud to happen is just amazing to me!!
BEWARE of the Ripoff Report Verified Safe Program
If you are considering joining the Ripoff Report Verified Safe Program, take notice that the Ripoff Report Revolt Boycott team takes a dim view of anyone who aids and finances Ed Magedson and the appalling business practices of his Ripoffreport.com
If you do join the program, you will be added to this transparency list:
Bad to Worse: The consequences of supporting Ripoffreport.com’s Appalling Business Practices through “Ripoff Report Verified Safe” pay offs.
Dear Ripoff Report Revolutionaries,
Dr. Duffy and myself are very please to report that overnight, Google AdSense and Tribal Fusion both appear to have blocked all ads from appearing on RipOffReport.com globally. This is in addition to the other Ad giant, Casale Media, who pulled their Ads last week.
Visit www.ripoffreport.com for your self and delight in all the empty white spaces that previously displayed advertisements (before Ed Magedson changes the format). The only remaining ads are for direct advertisers, and a few low value get rich schemes etc.
We have published a video explaining the victory here:
Ripoff Report Boycott Victory Video Explanation
In a recent Forbes article by Adam Tanner (cc'd) Ripoffreport owner, Ed Magedson explained that he used to make most money from advertising, but now:
"In the past Ripoff Report made its money through advertising, but in the last few months has stepped up efforts to sell its 'corporate advocacy program.' Criticized firms pay from $5,500 to more than a hundred thousand dollars to prove that they have changed their ways in customer service. Then the site injects a new headline and lengthy text above the original complaint. 'This is really how I make my money,' Magedson says."
Now that our righteous rebellion has cut off advertising, we are doubling our efforts to dissuade victims of ripoffreport from submitting to the Ed Magedson shakedown. You may be aware of our early activities on this from here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=ripoff+report+verified (click the result "Ripoff Report Verified - Authorized Statement" or "BEWARE of the Ripoff Report Verified Safe Program Bad For People")
It is our hope that through education, all advertisers, and victims who pay Ed Magedson to suppress complaints are "feeding the pig". As such, even though they were previously victims, they will be redesigned as emotional terrorists, just like Ed, because they support his antisocial impact on the community:
https://www.google.com/search?q=ed+magedson+emotional+terorist
Please join or follow us:
https://twitter.com/RipOffReportVic
https://www.facebook.com/RipOffReportRevolt
https://ripoffreport-victims-unite.org/
Regards,
Michael Roberts
www.authorizedstatement.org
Internet Victim's Advocate, Forensic Analyst and Litigation Support Consultant
Licensed Private Investigator # 3589109
Journalist # A 10450 LAPC
www.rexxfield.com
Support this bill, this is EXACTLY what we need - https://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/york-senate-bill-seeks-end-anonymous-internet-posting-162549128.html
Absolutely ep2002, this bill is the way forward in the US. This is amazing news and I am so pleased. It is a great start to address cyberbullying.
I received a positive decision from the court today Briefly, during 2011 we wanted Google to file a defence (which they had been avoiding) and they wanted my claim struck out. After argument in December 2011 the defendants had to submit a defence. I mention this because it appears to be a way in which media companies like Google can 'deep pocket' ordinary plaintiffs-they drag it out.
The hearing in April was about costs. I was awarded 95% of my costs between July 2011 and April 2012. Google did not believe that my case would make it past the first few months but I am still hanging in there.
We are now into the interlocutory processes before trial. Ripoff Report uses Google analytics (even though they do not adhere to the Google TOS) so Google will have ror data. In particular, the defendants have argued in court that the defamation was only viewed by me. This contradicts their own data on the google AdWords tool search.
Great job Aussie! You are a hero.
If you can, please ask your attorneys what can be done for those who'd like to file a lawsuit also in Australia. If we are listed at google.com.au but not citizens of Australia, I would think it does not matter, and we would be able to file a similar case, yes? They would know.
But if other people can follow suit in your country, it would definitely turn up the heat.
I spoke with them and it is very difficult because our defamtion laws as interpreted by the High Court in Dow Jones v Gutnick say that a person can sue in the place in which they have a reputation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_Jones_%26_Co._Inc._v_Gutnick
I guess it depends on the sort of business-i.e. whether it is global or local.
This is why I can sue here even though the website is based in the US, I could not sue ror because of jurisdictional issues but given that ror puts Australian ads on the defamatory webpages, my case against Google AU is significantly strengthened. The only viable defence is truth and the evidence does not exist.
Some victims of ror have indicated that they may be willing to supply affidavits and evidence for the trial. I can say that Google removed the ror links from 2 other Aussies after I filed upon a removal request which proves that they can and will remove links easily.
I will be submitting the evidence of ror changing Brin's name and redacting the name of the Google policy counsel at the trial. Google have been treating this case as a small irritation that will go away with legal smoke and mirrors.
I note ror's comment. Their attempt to sell their grubby service of 'arbitration' or 'corporate advocacy' on a thread in which so many have opened up about the decimation to their life caused by the publication of false material that is indexed at the top of Google is not only really tacky, but also smacks of desperation.
Great work Aussie.
I wonder, can you ask your attorneys about individuals under Australian law being global citizens? Therefore their reputation would be at risk in Australia as well with false reports posted about them. This is true, as they can be pulled up on google.com.au and therefore they are available in Australia.
If we can start an avalanche of legal activity in Australia, that would be excellent with standing. We need to apply more pressure.
I will ask them but at this point the legal framework is developing here as in other places. I do know that some other AU victims are waiting on the outcome of my case before they issue proceedings against Google over ror. Also Google UK spent a really long time reading the page on ror and all the links on my blog last week and I suspect that a few UK victims have lawyered up with the new defamation laws.
I think that the cyberbullying bills in the US have a real chance of providing an avenue for redress against ror.
Not that this will help us, but FYI - https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/technology/google-antitrust-inquiry-advances.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120427
A big surprise from Bing. I knew that the ror links were on Bing and Yahoo but I couldn't prove they had been found (my former employer found them on Google) until their existence was recently brought up in one of the court hearings.
I sent subsequently notified Bing and asked them to remove the links...and they did including all those links to directories. They were gone within days of the receipt of my notification.
Because yahoo is powered by Bing the links have also gone from Yahoo. I have to say that this is surprising because I was expecting it to be ignored.
You may actually succeed where others have failed.
Australian Law - (Modeled From English Law)
A defamatory statement is presumed to be false unless the defendant can prove its truth.
A private individual must only prove negligence (not using due care) to collect compensatory damages.
Section 230 of the CDA is not recognized in Australia, and ROR would be liable as a publisher in Australia.
International boundaries cloud the issue a bit.
If ROR is treated as a publisher of an untruthful posting and can become liable for damages cause in your Country, I would think out of an abundance in caution Google may just deindex the post.
Thus if the post is deindexed from Google, no one ever goes to look on ROR for anything unless they are doing an investigation.
A clever Australian Attorney should look at this for a pretty lucrative business opportunity.
A person or corporation that has interests and business relationships in Australia could easily invoke that Courts jurisdiction and drag ROR into a real boxing match on their turf.
I would love to track your case. Does your Court system have a public access portal?
Hi Shawn,
The documents are on record in the court but we don't have an internet access portal. However, I am happy to keep you updated. I found your email on the internet and will mail you after the hearing on Tuesday. It is a directions hearing but my lawyers are going to push for a trial asap.
Both Google and Ror would be liable here because the test for accessorial conduct (and here anyone who particpates in the communication of defamtion is an accessory) is favourable to plaintiffs. Moreover companies with more than 10 employees cannot sue for defamation so I can say what I like about Google :) supporting a website like ror.
Re the juridiction issues/boundaries you may be interested in this case: Gutnick v Down Jones. In 2002 our High Court determined that defamtion occurs where it is communicated, not where it is uploaded.
This is a very good review of this case and the issues pertaining to jurisdiction:
https://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/MULR/2003/21.html
I will be in touch :)
Slander and Libel laws, make allot more sense under Australian law or (English law)
I am for free speech and free press but not when a publisher or interactive web site can profit by simply not removing a known untruthful comment and then shaking down a victim of it.
The CDA was never intended to accomplish that, and Jaburg and Wilk have masterfully exploited the glitch in the law.
You can’t really knock them for it but the law is evolving in the USA and Australia will probably set the precedence in your case.
Getting permission for Maria Speth or David Gingras to practice in Australian Courts may not even be possible.
This of course means that hiring local counsel will be the only option for ROR.
This will level the playing field.
Good luck on your hearing and yes please send me a transcript if its not too much trouble.
Take Care
Shawn Richeson
(254) 291-4696
Hello to Everybody!
My name is Ahmed Ben Kebil. and I am also listed on ripoffreport.com.
I indeed won a court case against the operators of ripoffreport.com, namely Xcentric Ventures LLC, in Switzerland.
More info, court decisions, at: https://www.ahmedbenkebil.com
EPs legal friend is right, consumer is a person. Just look at the post James Rogers linked to in his rant above. How many posts have the name of the person in them? Click on the links. Some are reports, some will have recordings.
https://www.paladinpi.com/blog/rip-off-report/rip-off-report/
Anywho...
https://www2.orlandoweekly.com/columns/story.asp?id=3211
https://www.ripoffreport.com/modeling-agencies/trans-continental-ta/trans-continental-talent-emplo-2dfd7.htm
https://www.ripoffreport.com/pizza-take-out/pizza-hut/pizza-hut-restaurant-employee-43fz4.htm
Court records show that Magedsons neighbor John Unger wrote the Pizza Hut story. The same records show Ed was to get a commission on any settlement. The videos out there show Unger did writing for Magedson and Magedson admitted as much at a hearing.
Steven Michael Papi is a lawyer in Pennsylvania. He was posting as an investigative reporter and Ed copped to it in court. Papi was in control of Bad Business Bureaus mail box in Media PA.
https://www.paladinpi.com/blog/rip-off-report/danny-scalf/
https://www.ripoffreport.com/internet-services/go-daddy-software-go/godaddy-com-ripoff-scams-8-95-6pp2f.htm
In court records Danny Scalf admits to being Frank Torelli. Snippits of his conversations in the link about will help you.
Again...the pretext is to appear as if they are a news organization. Do reporters offer to sell the investigations to lawyers? Do reporters offer to facilitate law suits?
Hi EP and Paladin,
EP that is too bad. But, thank you for checking.
Paladin... well I feel bad you had to go through all of this. I understand the long-term big picture which is that when it is shown that ROR modified and created reports, their immunity is gone and they will be sued into bankruptcy. That'd be fine with me. Because you already said you had proof, right? I wonder where new plantiffs can get links to it - on your website, right? And they can just subpoena the same people who gave you the info, right?
Quicker and easier is simply to get them delisted from Google. What do you have that proves they are clicking on links in Google or other unnatrual ways to artificially pump up Google rankings? Anything to do with search engine rankings. Google does not allow that. And no Google rankings = no extortion business and no ROR. Either way, it accomplishes the same thing. Best to hit it from all angles.
I understand you cannot say its your purpose, but your findings are your findings, right? Google might as well know the truth, along with everyone else.
Has anyone else noticed that the rankings for Ripoff Report pages have dropped in the search results recently?
Google has lowered ROR's SERP. They finally caught on to the scam and became proactive. ROR will naturally derank to page 3 by January 2011. We all need to send Google a Christmas card and thank them. Better late than never!
But, there is a reason and it is not to be a good little company. We have been begging and threatening and bringing the problem to Google/Yahoos attention for quite some time and they have turned a deaf ear. Did not care and for my money have been in bed with ROR. Their attorneys getting wind of a foul smell? This does not deserve a Christmas card, at least not from me for all the hell they have put us all through. I cannot tell you how many times I have written them, to no avail, not even a response. So, IF they are dropping ROR's status, it is to benefit them in some way, not us. They have had ample opportunities to do this, and only now are choosing to when the proverbial shit is getting ready to hit the fan.
One of Googles leaders/higher ups or leading officers or whoever is the one who got his damn name removed from a report that said something about children or something? I have not seen this, so I cannot testify nor give a name, but, do trust, they are not the good guys, IMO. They are in this chest deep.
I am not sure where or why you think this is so. I do not see any change in Google's relationship with ROR. So, either you are thinking that somethng changed from one report, or someone told you this, or this is planted, and I am not trying to offend you.
But FYI, whatever the case may be, there has been no change there. As best as I can tell, Google and ROR are still up to their eyeballs in this in the same manner as they have been, whatever that mey be. Innocent, ahem, or on purpose. There is no change.
this posted twice, but I could not erase the second one, so How You Doin?
Did anyone see David Gingras on Dr. Phil? He was there with his client, Nix, owner of dirty.com. Nix is married to Shauna Lamas, who has been the target of a lot of internet lies and garbage and she was not happy. When she married him, she did not know what he did. His site is like a gossip site to talk about and defame ppl who are not famous. Smear smear smear. He is proud of it. One person on there had someone post on Dirty that she was a transvestite and her life had been ruined. It is a hate fest, ruin ppls life fest site. Horrible. This Nix guy is as heartless and gutless as you could ever imagine. He makes Ed look like a saint, and when the lady asked him how he will feel when someone kills themselves, he said he did not care, would not bother him. Horrible. And old David was in there, representing someone WORSE that Ed...so I guess this is to be his career? Whats up with that David? Did not have enough shit on you? Not disgraced enough?
Thanks for the comment Smitty. My phone is a voice over IP system that will reject any caller that has no caller ID.
Just unblock your caller ID with *82 then dial (602) 910-4026.
Please keep in mind that I record every call and if you are in a 2 party state, I grant you permission to record as well.
I am not a cop, I am not a spy, I can not stand Ed Magedson or his lawyers and I am out to nail their asses to the wall.
With that in mind, call away !
I have a general question about Rip-Off Reports. I'm a professor and had a former student post a very nasty report about me. She threw just about everything she could at me. Really terrible stuff, because she performed poorly in my course. I've written ROR about it, and they have only replied with personal insults, and by this I mean calling me an idiot, saying that I "deserved" the report, although they hadn't read it, etc. The student has in the meantime been expelled for defaming me in the reports (which was only the final straw in her harassment and intimidation of other faculty member, which resulted in restraining orders), and in her hearing she admitted they weren't true.
Anyway, it is clear from this blog that I cannot sue ROR for defamation, but I'm wondering if there is any legal distinction to be made between reports about companies/products and reports about individuals? I am not a company, students are not consumers (although many people unfortunately speak in those terms these days), and the report about me is simply abusive. Is there anyway that a "consumer" site can be liable for posting reports that aren't about companies and consumers? If not, could one post about anything and anyone? Are citizens "consumers" who can post on Rip-Off Report about Mayors, Governors, Presidents, etc.? Is there any legal line to be drawn? There are online venues for students to complain about professors and courses and there are mechanisms for students to challenge their grades (two options this particular student didn't take). The reason we have these other avenues is because it is reasonably and generally believed that education, particularly public education, is qualitatively different from the private market. Has this been at all recognized in law in a way that could help me?
Thanks for your thoughts and I really appreciate this blog.
Unfortunately, even though ROR represents itself as being a consumer site, it posts personal non-consumer reports. And while it sings it's own praises regarding the wonderful Consumer Advocacy Program to save your soul on the site, it is not available to the individual, only to companies. And, to take this a step further, if YOU wrote a report and after the fact, decided you wish that you had not for any number of reasons, it was not true, it was only for revenge, you were in emotional pain, whatever the reason, as the author you cannot get it taken down.
No one on the site has any rights except Ed Magedson and his legal staff, and probably his friends. No one. You can post a report about Ed, or any one of his legal staff, it can be completely true, but you will never see if come up on a search, Google or directly on the site. But, you may see it in your account as a report you have written. They do break the CDA law controlling and or deleting what they please. And I have read recently that one of their counsel had a report about them, derived from legal docs, put on another similar site, and hell was raised until it was removed from that site.
Still and yet, they make their money from defamation of the character of any person or business that they can. Until a judge in this country, wants to really get off their duff and really put their teeth into this problem, we are stuck. We need a law change, or a law added to the books. The CDA law of 1996 was written with too broad of a brush. And, we are paying the price.
I read an article a couple days ago that was written by a man who is in his 70's that had a bio put into Wikipedia that was a horrific lie about him. He had lived a life of renown and had been a man who actually was for our rights and liberties, and then he got to get a dose of cyber defamation that he did not deserve. When he contacted the owner of Wikipedia, he was told that they had no idea who wrote it. Ahem. Ok, we all know that everyone who posts on any site has an IP addy, and to make a long story short, he spent a lot of money, like some of us have, to try to get to it.
Professor, you have no idea how many ppl on ROR have lost their homes, businesses and standing in the community due to lies. Some had no options, some refused to be forced to pay to join CAP, Rico anyone? And so here we are. Sooner or later, heads will roll.
Me? I am not well. There is so much I want to do, so many ppl to organize to do it. We are all frustrated and holding our breath, waiting on the one, the big one, that case that will blow the doors off of it all, and put all the players who are capitalizing on this crime out of business. These ppl who write these things are the same ppl who spread rumors in grade school and high school. From bathroom stalls to cyber walls, thank you Tina. Never ending. Bullies, cyber bullies. I cannot wait to have a piece of you. I cannot wait. And, we will. One day.
Wish I had something better to say. ROR does not care if you live or die. Only if you are a business and will pay them a fee for every report on their site and then a monthly amount forever to keep it cleaned up and a glowing report about you from Ed, who will never have met you, made sure you fixed a problem, spoken to anyone, etc. He just wants your money.
Unfortunately, even though ROR represents itself as being a consumer site, it posts personal non-consumer reports. And while it sings it's own praises regarding the wonderful Consumer Advocacy Program to save your soul on the site, it is not available to the individual, only to companies. And, to take this a step further, if YOU wrote a report and after the fact, decided you wish that you had not for any number of reasons, it was not true, it was only for revenge, you were in emotional pain, whatever the reason, as the author you cannot get it taken down.
No one on the site has any rights except Ed Magedson and his legal staff, and probably his friends. No one. You can post a report about Ed, or any one of his legal staff, it can be completely true, but you will never see if come up on a search, Google or directly on the site. But, you may see it in your account as a report you have written. They do break the CDA law controlling and or deleting what they please. And I have read recently that one of their counsel had a report about them, derived from legal docs, put on another similar site, and hell was raised until it was removed from that site.
Still and yet, they make their money from defamation of the character of any person or business that they can. Until a judge in this country, wants to really get off their duff and really put their teeth into this problem, we are stuck. We need a law change, or a law added to the books. The CDA law of 1996 was written with too broad of a brush. And, we are paying the price.
I read an article a couple days ago that was written by a man who is in his 70's that had a bio put into Wikipedia that was a horrific lie about him. He had lived a life of renown and had been a man who actually was for our rights and liberties, and then he got to get a dose of cyber defamation that he did not deserve. When he contacted the owner of Wikipedia, he was told that they had no idea who wrote it. Ahem. Ok, we all know that everyone who posts on any site has an IP addy, and to make a long story short, he spent a lot of money, like some of us have, to try to get to it.
Professor, you have no idea how many ppl on ROR have lost their homes, businesses and standing in the community due to lies. Some had no options, some refused to be forced to pay to join CAP, Rico anyone? And so here we are. Sooner or later, heads will roll.
Me? I am not well. There is so much I want to do, so many ppl to organize to do it. We are all frustrated and holding our breath, waiting on the one, the big one, that case that will blow the doors off of it all, and put all the players who are capitalizing on this crime out of business. These ppl who write these things are the same ppl who spread rumors in grade school and high school. From bathroom stalls to cyber walls, thank you Tina. Never ending. Bullies, cyber bullies. I cannot wait to have a piece of you. I cannot wait. And, we will. One day.
Wish I had something better to say. ROR does not care if you live or die. Only if you are a business and will pay them a fee for every report on their site and then a monthly amount forever to keep it cleaned up and a glowing report about you from Ed, who will never have met you, made sure you fixed a problem, spoken to anyone, etc. He just wants your money.
It looks like ripoff reports have stopped appearing in Google searches. This has been going on for several days. They simply don't appear, although other pages from ripoff report do appear such as their directory where you can do a search. Has anyone else noticed this? Has Google decided that ROR should no longer appear n their search results?
Yes,
Google has taken a pro active step to illiminate online defamation and black mail / extortion web sites like RipoffReport.com.
Since 2004, my primary keyphrase "click a nerd" had a a ripoff report show up in the top 3 search results.
About a week ago it was gone.
My SEO experts tell me it is all Google.
Msn/Bing and Yahoo have been doing it a few years and have been slowly accumulating the Pay Per Click (PPC) revenue.
One would assume that Google is starting to feel the crunch.
I have noticed that even the cache results empty faster for ROR.
I am not sure which Google you two are searching but it is still actively bringing up ror reports for me. I put several ppls names in there that I know have reports in their Google search engine and they were still there, first thing that came up, page one. So, I am not sure why you are not seeing your reports, it may have to do with ROR ranking you lower and therefore you are pushed back to page 3 or something. But, it is still carrying them, same as ever. Sorry guys, Google has not gotten a heart, or a worry, or changed anything. They are still actively allowing ROR in their search engine.
Clear your history, reboot your browswer and try again.
Or, if you use IE normally, use Firefox instead.
If it's still showing up, make sure you're logged out of Google (it keeps a history separate from browswers if you don't have private browsing set up).
The reports on ripoff report now have a note at the bottom that says:
this report was posted on Ripoff Report on….and is a permanent record located here:….Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permittion of Ripoff Report.
If someone registered their name as a trademark, service mark or whatever couldn’t they then sue the website?
Paladin Investigations is in possession of 60 hours of audio recording between a Rip Off Report employee and various others including Ed Magedson. The recordings have been transcripted but the audio is so much more fun.
If you are intereasted in knowing about The Real Rip Off Report, email [email protected] and I will send an index of the recordings. In a short period of time the audio will be uploaded for all to hear.
Very Interesting read - thank you.
Hopefully, some of these cases will go all the way and set a precedent.
Smitty,
That is most excellent.
Who were these people you found?
What we need to do is write a lot of articles using these people's names in this thread so that it ranks highly for their names.
So when these powerful -businesses- OR people search to find out how to sue ripoff report and put their name in Google, they will find this thread.
Or we can also use this thread as a collective effort to pool together people.
But the best thing to do when you find someone, senator or whatever, is post the information here with name, etc. No matter if they have a crazy report or not.
The problems with ROR cannot be tolerated.
BTW Smitty is that Senators report still on ROR? What are the names of the people you found?
I will have to do some research, but what I did was to go on ROR and search by Senator, Governor, Sherrif, Judge, etc. There was a new site too, one that was feeding off of ROR, I cannot remember it's name, they were linking everyone to ROR, I think that it was a for hire to remove the report site, and that place was a lot easier to search. The thing is just do your searches on ROR by high ranking official titles, and I am sure that there are a lot more since I last did my searches. My good hit was a senator from CA. They were in Washington at the time, and I called Washington, that was where I made my contact. One of the problems was it was right before Thanksgiving, then Christmas and the advisor or PR lady had a personal crisis as well. She was super nice and under different circumstances, I think she would have gone further with me. It is going to be a matter of the right person, and timing.
My recommendation is to post their names here - anyone reading this - so that they find themselves in this thread and read this thread.. so that more may be aware of this movement.
To further on with Paladin's coment,
https://www.clickanerd.com/customer/roland/savefiles/RICO_Complaint[1].pdf
Some good reading, we are gaining ground, it isn't all just ROR, good times.
To ripoffreport.com, I'd like to say: Fellas, if you're trying to reach the undecided (as you said) you need to figure out how to do it in 500 words or less, because only a lawyer would read that entire response. I made it through more than most before I gave up (which was about the time you ended the law lecture). This was a communication FAIL. You should have hired someone who could have advised you on how to structure that response so people could go right to the part they wanted (a table of contents with on-page anchors would have been good). As it stands, few people will take the time to read it, which mostly made it a waste of your time.
Can you share what you are talking about? A link or something? Anytime Ed gets to pontificate, he takes the long road. He is so full of frustration that "we" do not go away. And, ppl become addicted to upset and anger and trouble. I think if this all became resolved it would be like he hit a damn wall. He would not know what to do with himself. Like cancer patients who are so involved in their treatment, going for regular chemo and radiation weekly, then spending the in between time being so sick, reading, trying to eat right (did you know that fresh fruits and veggies are NOT a good ideo when you are on chemo? They still have small amounts of bacteria from the earth and air that normal ppl have no problem with but chemo kills your resistance to, so you need to cook everything that you eat). When you stop being so involved, researching, it is like you fall down the rabbit hole. Most docs recommend that you take a vacation or something. Oh, and Ed, I have to have biopsies on both breats, seeing the surgeon this month. Even though I had bilateral mastectomies in Feb 2004, I had a tram flab reconstruct and you always still have some tissue left. If you have a recurrence, it is in the scars usually, or chest wall. Have masses in both sides in the scars. Thanks for the fucking stress.
December 28, 2010, Florida Court Case Giordano vs. Excentric Ventures is a LANDMARK CASE. To the best of my search abilities, it DOES appear that Rip Off Report REMOVED all defamatory posts regarding Giordano from their website. I will try to copy and paste the court ruling.
This "response" that ROR posted up above Ms. Bird's blog post is filled with BS and propaganda. ROR DOES CHANGE REPORTS. In fact, their attorney basically acknowledges it in the comments here. They changed Sergey Brin's report (co-founder of Google) which said he was messing with a 16 year old girl. I gave a link to it above. They changed his name and changed the title. They are full of shit, and trust me, there are people like Shawn who know the "holes" in their BS operation. Don't let this "response" fool you posted above - they ARE full of shit, and will be taken down.
Hey Shawn,
How's your case going? I emailed you as I am trying to get my "pages" ranked above my BS ripoff reports. But I don't think you got my email.
Hello last poster,
Judge Neil Wake dismissed ROR's case against me.
Additionally, the Judge was unwilling to allow me to procede against the lawyers for witness tampering and witness intimidation.
In order to be actionable, I would have to prove they intimidated me and I was damaged in excess of $75,000.00
I would never be able to prove either.
It does seem clear that the Judge is getting a bit sick of their shit.
The file frivilous claims against anyone that toys with their empire and hope that they can runup your Attorneys fees and beat you down.
I was fortunate enough to not incur Attorney's fees and was able to fend them off.
As far are your ROR showing up so strongly in the Google search results, I would advise that you continue to draft postive blogs about your business and backlink.
As time goes on, they will outrank ROR and shove them off the 1st page.
You don't want to keep getting in Magedsons face because he pays people to write reviews and click on them.
This is a never ending cycle of events and unless you want to keep writing and blogging to outdo his damages, you are better off just waiting for the Courts to put a muzzle on him.
Incidently, that time is on the horizon.
For those to busy to read I will help you.
On the front page of ROR you will find this:
"Ripoff Report® is a worldwide consumer reporting Web site and publication"
The FCRA says this:
(f) The term “consumer reporting agency” means any person which, for monetary fees, dues,
or on a cooperative nonprofit basis, regularly engages in whole or in part in the practice
of assembling or evaluating consumer credit information or other information on
consumers for the purpose of furnishing consumer reports to third parties, and which uses
any means or facility of interstate commerce for the purpose of preparing or furnishing
and this
(d) Consumer Report(1) In general. The term “consumer report” means any written, oral, or othercommunication of any information by a consumer reporting agency bearing on aconsumer's credit worthiness, credit standing, credit capacity, character, generalreputation, personal characteristics, or mode of living which is used or expected to be
You have a right to know what is on your report and who provided that information. You have the right to dispute the validity of the report and the consumer reporting agency has the obligation to confirm the report or delete it.
I am reviewing Hipaa laws now to establish whether that law was violated for the posting of medical conditions such as Herpes, mental illness etc.
Hi Paladin,
Wow you have had to go through a lot for this! Obviously, you would agree, ROR is a crooked and unlawful organization. Your findings prove this, right? So, they should be removed from Google, correct? We agree with you.
So, what are the specficis you have (sworn testimony, etc. - or anything at all) that serve as proof that ROR manipulates Google listings? Google will ban them and their business will disappear. Therefore, you win.
With all your effort and hardship, it is clear unfortunately it HAS become your fight.
I feel for you. Everyone here does - even if they aren't posting it.
What you are doing is both courageous and admirable!
You hold the key. Its what no company has been able to accomplish by suing ROR. You have proof that ROR has been manipulating search results in Google and it is impossible for Google to ignore that.
Do you happen to have that all put together in some sort of order? Just those aspects? That would be great!
Take care.
What I would do and will do is send a certified letter to ROR stating that you dispute the validity of a report. They are obliged to verify it and if they can't, it has to be removed. If they refuse to do so you send a complaint to the attorney general and the FTC siting the FCRA violations. They will do the work for you.
The penalties for violations are not severe however it does provide for attorney fees which is manna to a consumer attorney who would take it on contigency. I am not an attorney but have been tested on the FCRA by several states as a process for licensing.
Jaburg & Wilk will disagree as is their right. If my theory is right this could cause some problems for them, which of course is not my goal.
So far as agreeing with you I don't know that I do. Manipulating search search engines is a broad term. So far as ROR being crooked and unlawful is for a judge to decide, not me. I want the courts to have enough information to make a decision.
Again my aim is not to shut down ROR or delist them, its to allow the people their day in court. David Gingras was the most helpful in all of this when he said at a hearing for the videos out there, If it is discovered that posts are created by ROR, agents or employees, it would give cause to have their boiler plate MSJ to dismiss thrown out because it removes their CDA immunity. He claimed ROR would be sued into bankruptcy.
Does that also serve your purpose? You seem rather focused on the Goolge thing. I think you are wasting your time and missing the big picture.
I was really hoping we had something here, so I passed this along to my legal guy & he said (I didn't understand most of it)... (wish I had better news)
"The main problem is that FCRA targets "consumers" which are basically defined as "not businesses." ROR compiles reports ABOUT businesses FOR consumers, not ABOUT consumers FOR businesses. The author of the post then confounds ROR's claim they are a "consumer reporting" website with similar (though absolutely not analogous meaning) language in the FCRA to make his/her point. Classic post hoc ergo prompter hoc logical fallacy. Like the title of the magazine "Consumer Reports" - these are reports TO consumers not reports ON consumers. Same words, big difference... Consumer Reports isn't subject to the FCRA just because "CR" is in their name."
I have long been of the opinion that ROR is a consumer reporting agency as defined under the Fair Credit Reporting Act, (FCRA).
Here is a link: https://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcradoc.pdf
Here is a section:
(d) Consumer Report(1) In general. The term "consumer report" means any written, oral, or othercommunication of any information by a consumer reporting agency bearing on aconsumer's credit worthiness, credit standing, credit capacity, character, generalreputation, personal characteristics, or mode of living which is used or expected to be used
Here is another link that might show you what role social media plays in hiring people or giving credit. The Federal Trade Commission regualtes the FCRA as does the AG:
https://ftc.gov/os/closings/110509socialintelligenceletter.pdf
Does anyone here think that decision about hiring, credit etc are decided by what is on ROR or does it even matter because they clearly are a reporting agency. As such they have a responsibilty to ensure the information provided is truthful.
Just some ideas for you.
Hi Paladin,
I'm not sure I understand to be honest. Why get all of that information which you could present to Google and NOT present it? Its a lot of effort to go through. If you don't want to present it to Google, could you post links and proof of manipulation by ROR so people can report it to Google?
Its strange to make all this great effort, post to this thread, etc. and then not follow through and report your findings to Google, especially after being threatened, etc. - right? Why not finish the job?
In other notes, found this post today:
https://searchengineland.com/how-to-remove-ripoff-reports-from-google-not-just-bury-them-65173
Apparently you can get a court order and remove reports from Google's index. The problem is if you have anonymous postings on ROR - which all of the ones against me are. Then you have to subpoena ROR and get the identity and then serve the poster, apparently.
Wondering if anyone can find a country or jurisdiction where you can get a court order WITHOUT having to do this - against anonymous posters that Google would honor.
Any thoughts anyone?
PS watch the scammer ROR in the comments trying to promote their $2k extorition program and saying its much better than getting a court order LOL.
The answer is not a short or easy one. First I don't have the same agenda that others have. Taking ROR down is not my goal. Removing posts is not my goal. Locking up criminals is my goal.
I have taken great pains not to take sides in the litigations that have occurred because I have noticed that in some cases the ones that scream the loudest have a reason to hide their activities from the public. Sometimes I will get involved when I know lies will be told or if it furthers my own goal.
A case in point is a recent litigation that I would never have gotten involved in where it not for David Gingras being creative with the truth about me in a deposition. Do that and you get my attention which is not what you want for your client. I also have a thing about being pushed around. Threaten to go nuclear on me and you can expect me to fire the first shot. Childish I know but I hate bullies.
Also OK120...I was the one sued for $500,000.00 and had to go through 17 hours of deposition and endure lies, perjury and harassment at their hands. While they lost, they have appealed which is not the brightest thing they could have done but hey, I want Magedson on a witness stand so it may further my goal. They have a 3% chance of overturning the judge's ruling to dismiss. I am the one that has to stand front and center, toe to toe with these guys while you all can remain in the background.
No offense, I don't know who you are and want to keep it that way, for your protection. While you get the benefit of the doubt with me, it is possible that some of the people in here are not nice people and I just don't want to help them remove items that may serve the public's interest. I don't want to be judge and jury. I want the judge and jury to do that with a little help from me.
So what do you want? I have turned over a great deal to law enforcement and still have a lot more to go. I can help you on your journey to discovery by pointing the way and you can draw your own conclusions and present them in any way that you wish. It's all going to be published anyway so I can help you along. I don't have a client so I can do anything I want with this.
Anyone here that wants to do the discovery themselves ask me to point the way and I will. Set up an email that you think won't lead back to you and ask me for information. Hushmail is good. Do not make threats to harm another and don't break the law as I am obliged to turn you in and I have access to stuff that would make you lose sleep at night.
You want the journey? Start at my blog here https://www.paladinpi.com/blog/rip-off-report/danny-scalf/ and here https://www.paladinpi.com/blog/rip-off-report/rip-off-report/. Listen to the tapes. When you're done come back for more.
Herein lies the rub, there are legitimate reports on ROR. You just do not know when to swallow the meat and spit out the bone and the reason why is the lack of oversight.
And the personal reports. They affect the credibility. The site could do good were they to redo the model and their credo. Good for you. How horrible for countless thousands of innocents.
Could ripoff management be charged for criminal harassment in Canada, for posts they refuse to remove, that are not delisted by google.ca ? https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/fv-vf/pub/har/part1.html
This is your fight, why depend on me? Do the work, get the facts, go to law enforcement. Google will not help you. You have to pull the weed out by the root or it will grow back.
During my journey on this I have communicated with many if not most of the operators of these sites. Some are organized crime. Some are SEO guys that put up a sites simply to make money removing the posts created by others. The problem is bigger than ROR. Its the people behind the scenes.
Get the facts and present them to the Attorneys General. You can't just operate on rumor and inuendo.
Well, if you did not go to the link, just think on this:
***Edited by SEOmoz to remove Ed's Home Address and Cell Phone***
I did not post it, just came across it and thought there were some of you wanting to make service on EM, so here you go. It is not like Rocket Science. I mean, come on, he has ALL MY INFORMATION. He allowed my complete address, city and state to be posted on sleeze report.com, so what goes around, comes around. Yeah, I don't get death threats every day, but you know what? I have not destroyed hundreds to thousands of ppls lives. And, I am not strong arming that many again out of a monthly check to save their standing. Cyber Bullying at it's best.
Enjoy.
SEOmoz Note: It is part of our Blog policy to respect people's right to privacy (I'm talking about ethical rights, not necessarily legal rights), whether or not we agree with them. It's hard to balance the interests between sharing accurate information that will be genuinely useful to others, and invading someone's personal sense of safety and privacy. Bottom line: We'd feel bad if people shared our home addresses without our permission, so we've used that ethical yardstick to draw the line here. We hope you can appreciate the ethical dilemma and respect our decision not to publish Ed's home address cell phone number.
Hello,
My company has just been victimized by Ripoff report and I found this site.
After reading this post and many of the comments it seems that RR's defense is dependent on the fact that it never edits content or removes posts.
So every victim of RR should add a note in every rebuttal that exposes the RR fraud. Then if RR removes or edits it, it will be obvious and provable that they are perpetrating extortion.
So something to the effect of "I'm not sure if I need to respond to this ripoff report. I had never heard of ripoff report until they contacted me seeking a payment to hide this report. In my web research I've discovered that many RR posts are fraudulent and unfounded and RR has been and is currently the subject of many lawsuits for posting false ripoff claims and then offering to remove or hide the reports for a very large fee and recurring monthly fees. So for all I know this ripoff post was created by the Ripoff Report site for the purpose of charging me to hide the post."
Of course all victims would need to keep a record of their rebuttal so that when RR does edit or delete them, there is proof the RR is running an extortion racket.
I'm not sure if it's better to rebut or ignore, but if I rebut I will most likely add the note above. Would love to have feedback on others' thoughts about this.
Did he approach you for money?
I rebutt & there inlies the question...
Should a company defend itself (unless of course the allegations are true), or should we just ignore the lies.
I've tried to get a clear cut answer from Public Relations people & one said to ignore it, the other didn't really give me an answer.
I don't believe in hiding & I feel that if a person/company does hide, it just further proves gult.
On the other had I've found that even if you rebutt, people who naturally believe the worst in others believe what's written, so it doesn't matter what one says.
It's a good topic for discussion.
Michelle
Thanks for the reply. I had never heard of ripoff report. Shortly after a RR was posted filled with falsehoods, I received an email seeking a payment for the service of burrying the RR so it comes up low in the search results. I did some investigation and found this thread and several others like it.
I hope you kept the e-mail.
I wonder why he decides to contact some companies & not others.
Michelle
Here are the muckity muck at Google. Wanna do some research to see if there are reports on therm? We already know that Brins report was changed, right? We already know that reports on ROR against Ed do not show up in Google, or in ROR searches. Can you explain this to us David" Should we do searches of the powers that be over the court systems that have had dealings with cases involving ROR complaints? And their families names?
Corporate Information Google Management
Board of Directors
Operating Committee
Key executives by function:
Engineering
Products
Sales
Legal
Finance
Business Operations
Google.org
Operating Committee Eric Schmidt, Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer Larry Page, Co-Founder & President, Products Sergey Brin, Co-Founder & President, Technology Nikesh Arora, President, Global Sales Operations and Business Development Laszlo Bock, Vice President, People Operations Shona L. Brown, Senior Vice President, Business Operations, Google Inc. W. M. Coughran, Jr., Senior Vice President, Engineering David C. Drummond, Senior Vice President, Corporate Development and Chief Legal Officer Alan Eustace, Senior Vice President, Engineering & Research Urs Hölzle, Senior Vice President, Operations & Google Fellow Jeff Huber, Senior Vice President, Engineering Omid Kordestani, Senior Advisor, Office of the CEO and Founders Patrick Pichette, Senior Vice President & Chief Financial Officer Jonathan Rosenberg, Senior Vice President, Product Management Rachel Whetstone, Vice President, Public Policy and Communications Susan Wojcicki, Vice President, Product Management Key executives by function:
Engineering
Products
Sales
Legal
Finance
Business Operations
Google.org
Ok, I have a IPetition prepared and ready to post, but before I do, would like to see what you guys think and get some feed back. From here it would create something to present to Stern or 60 minutes or someone else. I did send an email to Dateline last week. Keep in mind that I have MS that is cognitive and if you see a missing word, a wrong word used, tell me. I can proof something ten time and miss it, that is why I am disabled. I had to stop my work life, I was a financial planner. Executive functions as I knew them just were not flowing. But, with extra effort, they are there. So, if you see me say something that does not flow, like Stevie Nicks, "read between my lines".
So, tell me what you think:
We, as consumers, would like to state our concerns with the website known as "RIPOFF Report".com and the lack of verification of information that is reported on the site as well as the authentencity of the author. As a result of this practice, many reports have been posted that have served to harm individual's careers, personal lives and businesses.
ROR takes a stance that it refuses to remove any report from it's site, stating that as a recourse it offers the "rebuttal" process, whereby the person or entity reported about may share their side of the story. They also allow consumers to post their comments to the report to either support the consumer or the report. ROR does not allow rebuttals in many cases by the persons or businesses who have been harmed by the reports, and also may not post many of the consumer comments that would support the wronged person or entity.
As a result, people have lost customers, jobs and their standing in the community, and in some cases have been caused emotional harm. The site offers corporate assistance for a price, but nothing for the individual. However, it seems questionable to have to pay the site that has caused you harm to repair that harm.
If you have experienced harm from this site, monetarily, emotionally, physically or in any way, please feel free to share it.
Also, please go and contact Google and ask them to no longer do business with this company to protect you and your reputation. It is their choice to include them in their search engine.
There is a business out there that offers recourse for people who have been wronged by a corporation. It is called the Better Business Bureau and has worked very well for years. It does not seek to slander a company or person, it does not cause a person to lose their job from a revenge report that is not true, it does not cause a person to feel like committing suicide because someone has been called a whore or said to have committed horrific crimes or acts which are untrue. These reports on ROR, as ROR is conducted today, will never go away and I believe over half of them, if not more, are lies. All to the detriment of people. I personally am slandered on the site and it has caused me horrible pain.
ROR and Ed Magedson need to be stopped. Join us in our fight. We plan to continue forward. The site is akin to a bully that you have no power over. Lets take the power back and our civil rights. Lets stop him from hiding behind a law, the Communication Decency Act, that was created to allow us freedom, to do this to us.
Also, if you see something that is reported in the sense that this site is there to help consumers, feel free to contact that reporter and share your experience so that the true face of this site is shown. There are surely some people who may have been helped by the site but the mounting numbers of people who have been harmed by the seeming negligence of verification of information and validation of individuals making these accusations is growing fast.
I think it sounds great. You know, the strange thing about this fight is that for some of us we do not want to come out "publicly" on the internet with our true identities because it will just spark more fuel and catch more flack.
So, somehow there has to be a system or something developed where people are actually making things happen that may make a difference.
I suppose first we need to identify what will actually work and what is worth trying. I think media attention is good. However, it would be helpful to get influential people or larger companies connected with us smaller businesses / single people affected.
Sites like this: https://www.ezripofflawsuit.com/ and this https://bad-business-rip-off.net/ seem to involve companies who are PO'd. This MD looks PO'd https://leonardladomd.com/victim_of_ripoff_report
So, basically we could first get a list of people somehow or companies who are PO'd with ROR. Perhaps a website can be created and we can list this people / companies. And the companies that want to remain anonymous can remain anonymous and just be described as a "large company in Texas that manufactures XXX", etc.
And once this list is made, there should be an action plan in place perhaps. This could involve everyone contributing to a publicist, contacting an attorney(s), contacting media, contacting government officials, contacting Google, contacting SEO professionals, etc.
So, after we identify all the target channels to hit, we need to identify how exactly to go about it. And then actually do it instead of just bitching about it. Somehow - if we can figure out an anonymous way. Or, the people/companies who don't need to be anonymous - they can be at the forefront.
We need to figure out things and then get organized and actually do it.
I agree with the negligence and I agree with Smitty. Bottom line is ROR is bullshit. And no one they can hire to "plant" comments in here is going to make it work. They are going down.
Actually, I think that you can create a petition for that very thing, ppl can remain anonymous while being able to voice their experience and so forth, while sharing who they are with the petition creator or attorney who wants to see how many ppl would be willing to come forward should a lot of ppl support an action or an official in office be willing to take this to a higher level of government.
The petition creator cannot be anonymous, but they can be another name. Take on another persona, if you will. It is sad to have to do that but they are doing so many underhanded things and coming after innocent ppl who can hardly or barely afford counsel until most of us are walking a thin line between what is the truth, an opinion and an out and out lie. They seem to not care at all. However, the ipetition allows you to enact your rights under the CDA as well as it allows him to hide behind them and break them.
Would someone who is in legal on here comment please so that we can get this rolling? The sooner the better. No time like when the iron is hot and this is a hot bed all over it seems at the present. I think that he knew from the get that he would be lucky to keep this up. He is trampling all over other ppl's civil rights, imo. IMO. There you go.
As an example of how Ripoff Report benefits from MISUSE because of their policy never to remove "reports", here is an example of it being used by one business to secretely attack another via a HIDDEN link. This is just one of many examples I've seen.
Go to https://www.timbradbury.com and scroll all the way down to the bottom. Mouse over underneath the copyright text. You'll notice black link text on a black background. The link text is "O'Connor Photography" and it links to a Ripoff Report about O'Connor Photography. Since this is a hidden link (a Google no-no), it's not much of a stretch to postulate that the"report" was made by someone connected with TimBradBury.com .
It's widely known that because RipoffReport will never remove reports (only extort businesses with their "Corporate Advocacy Program"), that businesses EASILY use that to hurt competitors by posting fake reports.
O'Connor photography has been notified this, so the hidden link example mentioned above may not last long.
It's simple to get complaints removed.
Do tell. Well, share this with all of us who are not able to do this, not with attorney's, with plea's, begging, threatening, etc. I have even spent two hospital stays over this, it has destroyed my peace of mind, I do not even want to sign on to my computer anymore. I do not enjoy my online world now. So, if you have the magic key, I would love for you to share it. My life has been altered for the worse and no one at Google, nor ROR could care less, they keep right on tripping. I beg you to give us your knowledge, as do tons of others here who have hired detectives, and attorneys, and who are waiting on that one judge who will really read what is going on, who will really take to heart what the CDA has done to so many people's lives, ablilities to make a living and has allowed so many cyber bullies and unbalanced ppl to get away with.
Still waiting on your simple solution to this nightmare that we are all living. Where are you superman or superwoman?
Apparently it is not so simple. People like this should be banned from posting on here.
I agree but then it would be censored. They are just good old shitsticks. Like to stir, or they own one of those "companies" that claim to get your report removed, when all they do is bury it in Google. It can be so brought back to the first page with activity.
The only answer, for the long term, is to change the law, or to revise it. For the immediate fix, is to shut ROR down and there are so many violations of the CDA with that site, it boggles ones mind as to why a judge has not done so. It is going to take someone who cares. I have a senators ear. But, will I be able to keep it?
I will be more then happy to join the cause in any way possible. I think it is fair to have people voice their frustrations about me or my company, however I dont think it is fair the way RIPOFFREPORT.com makes it reach the top of the page in search results on google.
I also have a serious problem with the fact that they don't erase the information if a problem is cleared up.
This is by far one of the worst uses of the internet.
I was a victim of ripoffreport in 2007. I posted a LEGITIMATE complaint about a company (small business) and then one of their employees posted a FAKE post about me. The individual admits in posts on the site that they posted the fake post out of revenge. I contacted ROR because I thought they were a legitimate CONSUMER site; I had actually DONATED money to them. Anyway, they never got back to me and ignored my requests to remove the FAKE posts. Anyway, 2 years later, the post is still #1 in spite of press releases, blog postings, social networking, etc..
I have pretty much given up, but I have a little hope left. GW EQUITY recently took a deposition of Ed Magedson and his staff and it was disclosed that they are indeed editing and rejecting posts. THey were ordered to STOP, while the lawsuit is pending, editing content. I have a feeling this case will end up going to the US Supreme Court and ROR will eventually be found liable to for the libelous postings they perpetuate on their site. In the meantime, these are some things you can do:
1. Google petition to get rid of ripoffreport
https://www.gopetition.com/petitions/remove-rip-off-report-from-google/signatures.html
2. Report the ROR site and Ed Magedson to the IRS. If he is participating in RICO activity or exhortion, the IRS will prosecute for failure to report income. Go to irs.gov and do a search on reporting an individual for tax fraud. You can do it anonymously.
3. Don't respond to any ROR reports about yourself of business; this only allows MAGEDSON and his bunch to link your name to more google search reports. The same person posted another post about me and it disappeared from google because I did not respond. Under NO circumstances should someone respond to the ROR, Magedson will 1) request a bribe after you do and 2) it will cause it to keep coming up in Google.
My God, you are right! I thought if I bugged them, maybe they would remove my report. Story being, I placed five on there, one on my husband, then four on his mistresses, all true, none just nasty business, I was in horrible pain, these women were supossed to be my friends. I regretted it immediately and begged them to removed them. He made a confession and I did not have good judgement and I am ill. Of course they did not.
So this is my second lesson. My first is do not post rebuttals. That keeps it on the board. If you do post them, do not put the names of any report that you have already put on the board, in my case the name of the other mistresses. One of the mistresses put three revenge reports that were horrific nasty lies on there about me, and when I rebutted, I put all three mistresses names in there.
I thought if I begged and begged them maybe they would eventually take them off, especially since that bogus class action suite notice wanted to know if you had proof that you had asked them or Google to remove reports and they would not, I wanted to keep that trail going. What has happened, if you Google any of those mistresses names, MY Name comes up now. MY FUCKING name.
So that is why. Initially there were three reports. There were no rebuttals to two of them and my name on those two was different and they are totally gone.
So what you are saying it true. I have hurt myself. I hate Ed Magedson, I hate his guts, I hate his staff, they have no morals, hearts and something bad has to come down. Thank you for your information. Thank you so much.
What he is saying is true. Do not post rebuttals. Do not write to them. If they cared about humanity at all, they would not have allowed the site to be. My stress level right now is through the roof. When I email them they send me back emails about how this is protecting consumers. All about my husbands affairs and lies about me being committed to mental institutions and being a whore a heart. God.
I will go to the ipetition and sign. I will go to Washington and stand with you, as will some other ppl. We have something hopefully in the works now. I am not sure who you are, trust issues are paramount since I think that Ed is infiltrating these sites to try to get information. But, you can email me at [email protected]
I have a blog here as well.
https://stopinternetdefamation.blogspot.com/
Already signed it way back. What are you planning to do with it>
sent this to sarah
in the following post there's a reference to sergey brin, one of the google founders, having a post about him on ripoff report.
https://www.97thfloor.com/blog/public-spam-report-google-your-honeymoon-with-rip-off-report-has-to-stop/
however, if you notice in the comments, readers have stated the original ripoff report has been edited to contain the name of "soney bonoi" not sergey brin. it's my view that once ripoff reports edits content they may lose some cda protections. when you consider the #1 google search result for "sergey brin california" shows the edited post containing the content referencing soney bonoi, rather than sergey brin, there's an appearance that there's some collusion between google and ripoff report. perhaps a rico claim here? at least some discover could be required here, hopefully.
here's the link to google's search result:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sergey+brin+california&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t
would love to know your thoughts.
Ok, so I might be 4 years late, but I only just discovered that RoR has in fact removed the original Sergey Brin complaints, and is redirecting to the new complaint (Soney Bonoi) with a 301. You can check it on urivalet.com or see the screenshot here: https://i.imgur.com/PG6p9.png
According to this article -https://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/online-activities-covered-section-230 , they do lose some protection for substantially altering the meaning of the content (changing someones name completely seems pretty substantial in this case).
Ripoff Report is SO dodgy. Ripping off people and small business owners all in the name of freedom of speech.
I've approached the Google removals team, and they have been very helpful by removing false reports that were posted about my company. I'd love to see Google step up and completely remove them from the index if RoR doesn't comply with something such as proof that the reports that are posted are infact true and not malicious attacks on companies.
Hi there,
What did you say to Google to get them to remove lies? They wouldn't do it for us when we asked & they certainly wouldn't do it with their blogspot. Save if we went to court & had to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to try & prove we AREN'T a scam & a fraud.
A friend passed this along to me... Although I doubt any affected businesses will come forward for an interview- for fear of more aggressive retaliation (myself included)- maybe an SEO company or two would be willing to be interviewed for this.
Summary: Rip Off Report
Category: Business & Finance
Name: Keith Yaskin
Email: [email protected]
Title: Reporter
Media Outlet/Publication: Fox Television in Phoenix
Anonymous? No
Specific Geographic Region? No
Region:
Deadline: 6:00 PM MOUNTAIN - August 30
Query:
"I'm working on a story about a controversial website called the
RipOffReport. Some people argue the site allows upset consumers to
fight back against companies. Others argue the site allows unproven
posts that unfairly hurt businesses. I'm looking to interview
someone who is interested in talking about this website. Thank you.
See the link below for the Keith Yaskin story on RipOff Report featuring our company and telling of how RipOff Report is the real rip off here.
https://www.myfoxphoenix.com/myfox/pages/InsideFox/Detail?contentId=7363759&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=5.7.1
While I'm glad they made it to the TV, I didn't really feel the report clearly showed that he's getting people to lie or that he's extorting money. It sort of left me feeling like "what can he do, people complain all the time, it's not his fault."
And then it says that the company should post a rebuttal, yet everyone says NOT too b/c then that page shows up higher in the SEs. I made the mistake of posting a rebuttal, not once, but a few times because like a lot of people on here, we don't even know who these people are, most are either competitors, or could be fraudsters themselves lying to make us legit businesses look bad.
I just had a client purchase from me, get his product & then blackmail me that if I didn't give him a refund, he would post that I'm a scam & fraud all over the net.
He will go on my own personal blog outing him as a fraudster, but like that PI said, he goes on there to see if the company is there before even making a purchase.
It's all sad really. All I can do, is hope that clients will read about Rip Off Report & see that they are the scammers, or use their common sense after reading my very positive testimonials.
Thanks
Michelle
Consumers are scammers too. consumers these day are so sensitive to online buys, the very minute they do not get what they have ordered, they start finding ways to screw you over, then they start making claims of company scams, then they misuse resources like ROR, maybe to hold a companies rep hostage.
ROR is not to blame for the consumer rip off mess, consumers are responsible, you are responsible every time you mention his website, you are responsible every time you make a complaint on his site, true or not, we are responsible for making ROR what it is today...and ROR is just taking advantage of that.
You simply just do not know what companies are legit complaints compared to false complaints, I can understand why ROR does not want to police this, it can be a lot of work since we the consumer are making this website bigger and bigger.
https://www.LetsRipOffConsumers.com
Help us Help Others.
Edited to remove link.
It goes even further than that..
I just had someone from a forum (I had posted my hiring ad seeking graphic web designers) respond to my post looking for independent contractors to hire. He posted back & placed the ROR link where a client & even non clients lied about me not returning calls, e-mails, that my product is useless, etc.
After that, everyone stopped responding to my hiring ad, even after I said if you are going to judge a company by people lying, then we can't help you.
So it goes way beyond losing sales now, it's also losing people we may wish to hire.
I have no qualms about posting fraudulent clients on one of my blogs. Fraud is fraud, whether it's from a company or a client. No one action is any better or worse then the other.
Do you know that around (I don't have the exact number) 75% of all credit card fraud is done by actual clients/customers & they moronically call it "friendly fraud". What is soooo friendly about someone commiting fraud?
That means that the credit card wasn't stolen, the charge was made, the client received their product or service, or someone within the family used it, then they call the credit card company, lie about either receiving the product or service, or that it didn't work, or something, & Visa & MasterCard does a chargeback against the company.
This company is now charged a chargeback fee, plus of course they lose the money for the sale.
Then they lose their product or the value of their product, they lose hours for the service (if it was a service they are selling) & they lose minutes or hours for servicing the client in the first place when the order was made, & there is NOTHING they can do about it.
Visa allows you to rebutt the chargeback, but if the client then rebutts that rebuttal, that's it, the client wins.
Visa & MasterCard don't care, they make TONS of money on chargeback fees AND, the not only that, the company risks losing their merchant account altogther because if it happens too many times & the company isn't producing enough sales, the bank will pull their merchant account.
AND, it's even worse online.
Visa, Mastercard & the banks are soooo backwards, that since the Internet came into existance, they haven't done a thing about protecting companies online who sell non tangible products even though at least 50% (it's probably more) of all sales online are for non tangible products such as services, graphic design, programming, e-books, software, dating sites, & the list goes on.
They don't recognize these as being "REAL" products even though they are, so they side with the consumer.
SO, there's where a ton of your fraud comes from, NOT the companies. Yes companies rip people off, but there are a TON more consumers than there are companies.
Consumers know how to play the game now & they commit fraud every single day & the banks, Visa & Mastercard support them.
Michelle
Why can't a software engineer design software to intervene and lawfully tamper with Google's results? They'd become millionaires! So you'd pay a one time fee to have your business removed from RipOff Report cheaply, but it would be through Google's search results, not ROR.
Another issue I wanted to bring up is these scavenger companies looking to feast on the bare bones of victims of ROR. I tried one of them a few months ago,"Reputation Armor." They advertise being able to remove ROR postings, then later tell you only to move it down in Google by creating loads of content.
After paying an on-line bank draft of $1,000 there was non-performance and a lot of lies from a couple of con artists. Like Ed, they enjoyed sadistically feasting over victimizing and traumatizing people. I was able to get my bank to issue a credit apparently due to their company's already tainted reputation. My bank forewarned this company could take an unlimited amount of my account at any time in the future so I had to close the account.
Reputation Armor has several complaints on ComplaintsBoard.com. Their small operation gives no full names and rents a UPS virtual office.
So, there are offshoots of the ROR extortion making money as well. I admit, I posted a few things on ROR a while back and deeply regret it. It's like a post board from hell.
Hello
Im a new user, I come to this post every now and then to see if progress has been made on this issue. I've decided to tell my story about my RO Report:
I am a freelancer working from home in the fashion industry. A few years ago I had a client who I would describe as mentally unstable demand a refund for work I completed for her. Her reasons for a refund were ungrounded by definition of all my peers and collegues - I checked with many sources and asked a few collegues whether they would refund for the reasons given and they in all cases said no. So I refused. The client wasnt happy with that at all and started making harrassing phone calls and emails. I threatened to call the police. Didnt hear from her again.
Then about 8 months later I google my name and find a flaming statement on me and my partner on ripoffreport.com, with my full address listed as well as some seriously disturbing accusations and words. To be fair - everyone who has seen this has remarked that the words say more about the poster than me and that its pretty obvious that the report is written by someone who probably has some serious issues themselves, judging by the choice of words and the overall tone. But - its been an unbelievable shame and embarrassment for me. I cant express or describe how violated I feel every time I come across this. And the fact that my home address is readily available online whenever someone should google my name makes me feel like I have no privacy or sense of security at all. Im a single woman living alone, my name highly uncommon. Although my home address is also my business address I do believe it should be my choice whether that is made public or not.
The clients husband has tried to remove the report, but as most people know who know ROR - they wont let him. I have contacted ROR many times because of this and they have never replied. I think they know Im not likely to be able to cough up thousands of dollars to "make this go away".
I am a very private person, so I dont feel that saturating the internet with sites and information about me in order to push the ROR report down on the list - is a solution for me.
I decided to tell my story on here for those who are still in doubt and think ROR might be a good service. Personally I have a good experience with the Better Business Bureau, and am all for that. But ROR is a whole different thing. You wont know, until you experience it firstand, how victimized you will feel once someone decides to lie and taint your reputation online just out of spite. And although Im sure there are a handful of legitimate complaints on ROR, having been through my experience I wouldnt touch this site with a ten foot pole.
If anyone out there is starting a class action or trying to do something constructive about this to the benefit of other victims and to improve the laws that so far are not protecting us - please contact me. I want this to go away and I want justice. I have no interest in using the same sleezy methods against ROR that they practice themselves.
Everyone just continue to ask this joker "David" the following valid questions - which he refuses to answer:
1) If you don't change reports, why was Sergey Brin's report changed David? Why did you change his name in that report? It WAS definitely changed and you DEFINITELY changed it. And you DEFINITELY just purposefully dodged the question.
2) Who - what person - owns Xcentric Ventures, LLC?
3) Why are your servers located in Turkey? You'll claim you don't know - you're not a "Tech Guy" or something.. but you and I both know the reason.
4) You're DEFINITELY here to sue people. You've already done so with the author of this thread. You're out of your mind. BTW: What's your full name and what state are you located in so we can look up your credentials as an attorney?
methinks that house counsel just may be the same person as the class action lawsuit attorney. Hmmm...I have never seen more attorneys crop up who were more anonymous in my life, have you? Just a first name in a crowd. How many Davids do you know? I wonder how many Davids live in AZ? Oh heck, how many who are attorneys? Oh, heck, how many are paralegals? Oh heck, how many live with Ed M.? Oh, heck, how many are on Ed M's payroll? Oh heck, how many times has Ed M. pretended his name was David? Gee, this could go one forever.
Smitty,
I gave you my email address and if you wanted to verify who I am, all you need to do is send me an email. If I was a class action lawyer seeking to bring a case AGAINST Ripoff Report, I doubt I'd be able to have [email protected] as my address. If you want to send me an email I'll immediately write back to you and if it helps, I'll even include my direct phone #.
~David
[email protected]
I am going to go against what I said and respond to you. Just because you are [email protected] does not mean you are an attorney or anyone of any importance. Ok? Everyone who works there, or anyone that the webmaster or whoever oversees the accts can assign a person an account at ripoff. So, that is weak.
No, my pleadings are legitimate, they are rational, and the responses of yourself, ROR, are illogical, unethical and regardless of your rules, without heart or humanity. I am sick. I will go back to this time and again. When my MS was diagnosed, in the beginning they thought that I had a brain tumor on my brain stem, and you probably do not know the importance of that but that is an inoperable area. As it turned out, MS was a blessing. To know that I may need a device to walk, motivate, may no longer be able to swallow, etc. yes, David that is what I awake to every single day of my life. As it stands now, I struggle with word find, memory, could never retrain for a job, had to lose all my professional license. It would be akin to you losing your ability to practice law, to losing your degree that you worked so hard to attain and then maintain. That happened to me. To have your brain become compromised and then see the changes and lose yourself in the process, you have no idea. Studies have shown that ppl with my type of MS have an inability to control anger, to let go of it and express in improperly. I attended a seminar last evening where this was discussed again. So I am also a victim of my disease.
I would like for you to explain to us here who you say are not factual, and you have come to set the record straight, well tell us why the reports that are placed on ROR against Ed by consumers are not showing in Google searches, or in site searches on ROR? I myself have one on ROR against him. Oh, it is still there, in my account, but you will not find it on a search, and never on google. Now, does that sound like an unbiased, uninvolved management of a board as is stipulated by the CDA in order to keep it as a place that he just offers a wall for graffiti, as you put it, but does not erase it, or add to it? Hmmmm?
He has broken so many of the laws of the CDA, he is no longer protected by the CDA. Right? Can you dig that David? Help me with this. The points made by OK120, where there is proof of changed names, can you address that? That is in direct violation of the CDA, he is no longer just a graffiti wall, but a censor, a blackboard eraser where it suits him. Right? Can you help me with that information? I am just a woman out her in American trying to understand how this all has happened, and too, you said because I was not in the CAP program we would not discuss it, why not? I think that if a report on that site is not suitable for your magnificent CAP program, it ought not be allowed to be on the site. You are not be fair, not offering the same service to us all. You are causing harm to some without recourse but not to all. But what about the CAP? Hasn't that been interesting??? How about all the documentation that has been showing up regarding how that mess has been handled?
And, I hate to say this, but David you do not even know what you are talking about. Yahoo, Lycos and MSN and Bing all still bring up ROR reports, I am sad to say. I went and ran some tests. They are still working with your slimy site. See, you do not even know what you are talking about. As HOUSE COUNSEL, wouldn't you know this?
What a stinking, rotten, out of control mess. I hate ROR and all that it stands for. It is ruining ppls lives, businesses.
Address to me the fact that let's say I want to start a printing company and run it primarily on the Internet, no, lets say I want to sell ink cartridges. And, there is a very successful company, ABC, that I want to run out of business. I can create as many personas as I please and post report after report about them stating I did not get my product, the product was defective, customer service was awful and on and on. ABC is dumbfounded and on matter the amount of rebuttal that they or their customers put on there, when googled, the bad lead in line shows up. End of story. So, then I start my company, Boos Ink and make all these promises, maybe cut the price a tad at the beginning, cite how much better we are with links to the ROR reports, you will close down ABC and there is not one thing ABC can do. They cannot prove who did it, and there are destroyed. David, this is happening, I have a personal friend who has dealt with this and is doing so right now. But her multiple persona person is a stalker. A judge forced the stalker to cease and desist, and jail time I think but, this person moved to another country and found you. Well, well, well. And, my friend changed the name of the company and it is a matter of time.
This is the reality David. Whose civil rights, David. Whose.
David:
1) If you don't change reports, why was Sergey Brin's report changed David? Why did you change his name in that report? It WAS definitely changed and you DEFINITELY changed it. And you DEFINITELY just purposefully dodged the question. 2) Who - what person - owns Xcentric Ventures, LLC? 3) Why are your servers located in Turkey? You'll claim you don't know - you're not a "Tech Guy" or something.. but you and I both know the reason. 4) You're DEFINITELY here to sue people. You've already done so with the author of this thread. You're out of your mind. BTW: What's your full name and what state are you located in so we can look up your credentials as an attorney?
David is not an attorney. David could very well be a scam artist. In fact, some might argue that David is a criminal.
If you have any anonymous, horrible comments to post here about David and ROR, feel free to post them.
ROR actually has built itself on horrible, anonymous comments that aim to destroy businesses and people.
So, why not give them some of their own medicine?
Some might continue to spread the rumor that David is a child molestor.
Others might continue to discuss that David stole $100,000 is a quite the crooked businessman.
You really never know with him. But, you might as well fill up 500,000 pages of comments with these things if you have experienced them, or if you think they are true... because, that's what ROR is built on.
ROR is obviously not a message board. It is a fraud.
And my legal argument would be that ROR is indeed defrauding people and businesses all around the world. Again, I pose these questions:
1) If you don't change reports, why was Sergey Brin's report changed David? Why did you change his name in that report? It WAS definitely changed and you DEFINITELY changed it. And you DEFINITELY just purposefully dodged the question. 2) Who - what person - owns Xcentric Ventures, LLC? 3) Why are your servers located in Turkey? You'll claim you don't know - you're not a "Tech Guy" or something.. but you and I both know the reason. 4) You're DEFINITELY here to sue people. You've already done so with the author of this thread. You're out of your mind. BTW: What's your full name and what state are you located in so we can look up your credentials as an attorney?
... If it looks like a rat, smells like a rat, and ACTS like a rat. It's a RAT.
What kind of "attorney" doesn't post their full name and contact information. That's not an attorney.
My name is Matt Montgomery and I'm the general counsel for ROR. Email me at [email protected]. I'm also the general counsel for the Planet Mars.
If ROR is a legitimate business, WHO OWNS IT - WHAT PERSON? If you are a legitimate attorney WHO ARE YOU?
If your argument is that you don't edit posts WHY DID YOU EDIT THE POST OF THE GOOGLE FOUNDER SERGEY BRIN from 2008?
David, you really should have the entire Internet arrive on this thread and post more and more and more true or false, anonymous reports on all of the people who may have been "ripped off" by yourself. They should be nasty reports and they should ruin your business and they should harm you as a person. That's what should be done, because you are a fraud, and this is the kind of thing your fraudulent website ROR encourages.
ok120,
"If you don't change reports, why was Sergey Brin's report changed David?"
When did I say that ROR never changes reports? I don't recall saying that....
~David
[email protected]
P.S. I note that although you keep calling me a "fraud" and a "rat", you have not bothered to send me an email which, if you did, I would respond to with my contact info proving that I am who I say I am.
Respond to all questions.
Ripoff Report now admits publicly to modifying reports as you have denied in the past.
Good, hopefully somebody can use this in a court case. How about addressing all of the other points.
NOBODY should email this "attorney" and create a papertrail with these thieves at ROR.
Why not publicly state who you are? Any attorney does this. They are not hard to find.
No attorney for a major, legitimate company hides behind a fake name.
That's because ROR is not a legitimate company. Who is the owner? What person?
Why are the servers in Turkey? To hide, of course so the information cannot be easily accessed.
Why did you modify the report for Sergey Brin and not other reports? You now change reports and names in reports all of a sudden? When did this start?
ROR is a fraud. ROR looks like a rat, smells a rat, acts like a rat - with a mysterious faceless presence - no "owner" except a shell LLC, servers in Turkey, and perpetuating fraud on the internet by allowing people to anonymously talk about how they are "ripped off" even if it is completely false.
You can post any anonymous report on Ripoff Report and because Ripoff Report is a fraud, it will appear like a legitimate complaint and harm people and businesses as it shows up near the top of Google. This is of course why it was removed from MSN and Yahoo. Not for any other reason. This is why all people are upset, obviously.
Again, I call for everyone anonymously to post their stories here about how David and others may have harmed your children, stole from you, or whatever else is true or false - because that's what ROR does and is. A place calling for people to lie... in a hands-off, bullshit "shell game".
Don't email this "counsel" who will have no problem suing you, like they constantly are doing - going after everyone who "lies" about them they identify, but gladly hiding the identities of the thousands and thousands who use their fraudulent website to report "ripoffs".
I think someone should start a website allowing users like us to post any old truth or lie about "David" and the scam artists at ROR. Just a huge website that gets David's full contact information and whoever else is involved with ROR and so everyone can anonymously post anything they want about them - even if its false - so it shows up in Google as the #1 result.
Come on David, post your information publicly so we can give you a solid #1 ranking in Google and ruin your life.
I can't wait for that to happen.
Whoever does get David's contact information, feel free to post it here.
ok120,
You STILL didn't answer my question -- when did I say that ROR doesn't change reports?
I've reviewed all my comments on here and don't see anything that could be confused as saying that we don't change reports. In fact, if you had read any of the court decisions in our favor, you'd see the judges talking about ROR's admission that it DOES sometimes edit reports. Of course, in each of those instances, the judges agreed that this does NOT affect our CDA immunity in any way.
~David
[email protected]
P.S. I have no idea why you keep threating to "ruin" my life. All I am doing is talking here; same as you. By acting in this way, all you're doing is demonstrating why people on your side of the issue are not taken very seriously.
You sued the author of this post. You're full of shit.
NOBODY should email this "attorney" and create a papertrail with these thieves at ROR.
Why not publicly state who you are? Any attorney does this. They are not hard to find.
No attorney for a major, legitimate company hides behind a fake name.
That's because ROR is not a legitimate company. Who is the owner? What person?
Why are the servers in Turkey? To hide, of course so the information cannot be easily accessed.
Why did you modify the report for Sergey Brin and not other reports? You now change reports and names in reports all of a sudden? When did this start?
ROR is a fraud. ROR looks like a rat, smells a rat, acts like a rat - with a mysterious faceless presence - no "owner" except a shell LLC, servers in Turkey, and perpetuating fraud on the internet by allowing people to anonymously talk about how they are "ripped off" even if it is completely false.
You can post any anonymous report on Ripoff Report and because Ripoff Report is a fraud, it will appear like a legitimate complaint and harm people and businesses as it shows up near the top of Google. This is of course why it was removed from MSN and Yahoo. Not for any other reason. This is why all people are upset, obviously.
Again, I call for everyone anonymously to post their stories here about how David and others may have harmed your children, stole from you, or whatever else is true or false - because that's what ROR does and is. A place calling for people to lie... in a hands-off, bullshit "shell game".
Don't email this "counsel" who will have no problem suing you, like they constantly are doing - going after everyone who "lies" about them they identify, but gladly hiding the identities of the thousands and thousands who use their fraudulent website to report "ripoffs".
I think someone should start a website allowing users like us to post any old truth or lie about "David" and the scam artists at ROR. Just a huge website that gets David's full contact information and whoever else is involved with ROR and so everyone can anonymously post anything they want about them - even if its false - so it shows up in Google as the #1 result.
Come on David, post your information publicly so we can give you a solid #1 ranking in Google and ruin your life.
I can't wait for that to happen.
Whoever does get David's contact information, feel free to post it here.
You are just pinning on one question, avoiding all the others, and think that you are looking smart, coming out really well. Why would anyone threaten to post things and ruin your life? Because that is what has been allowed to happen to hundreds of ppl on ROR.
Ppl on our side have not had the chance to be heard. WE have not had the right representation, the one senator or high ranking official who we can get to care has not been found. This will blow up, I promise you. I do not know how long or when. Just like Craig's list did.
There are some dangerous ppl lurking on ROR, posting things and there is a hot mess simmering just beneath the surface. Why do you think Ed stays on the move or is impossible to find to serve? He knows that he probably is not safe. You do not destroy ppls lives to the measure that he has allowed to happen to line your pockets and not develop some enemies and some of them are not nice ppl like you are talking to here. Some of them are grinding their teeth. And, they will only do that for so long.
So, you keep this shit in court, you find loop holes, pay off judges, if that has happened, I am not saying it has, I am saying this happens other places sometimes. Whatever is going on, you keep at it. It will NOT last. The number of angry ppl worldwide is growing so fast, and we are finding each other. Do you not think that we may have an underground? Think about that House Counsel Dave. When the strike comes in a legal sense, gird yourself well. K?
Now Ed is suing SEOMoz and Sarah Bird? Hahahaha. What a bunch of trash. Well, I hope SEOMoz now comes back to these comments and instructs us how to band together to stop this nonsense. Right now Ed is trying to bully companies and people he can bully with less money. However, there are people right now being assembled and companies being notified with more money than Ed. And all attorneys and politicians and CEOs, etc. - they are being notified of this scam. And eventually Ed and his crappy LLC will be taken down. I guarantee it will happen. Because Ed does NOT have more money than all of the companies his scam has harmed.
Mark my words, the wrong people are pissed off about ROR now. And this thread will give birth to the end of ROR. Its existence serves as the beginning of the end. The lawsuit filed by ROR and Ed against Seomoz and Sarah Bird also is a step in the wrong direction for ROR.
ROR is a scam and should be eliminated. Google needs to be contacted and questioned as to its relationsihp with ROR. Google needs to understand that it is going to be playing on the wrong side of this game.
The end is near! The end is near! Keep contacting any important person or large company affected negatively by the scam that is ROR. Alert them as to what can be done! This is a scam. Alert anyone with a lot of money, and point them to this thread or any of the other websites out there telling the TRUTH about Ed and ROR.
It must be shut down!
I would suggest to anyone NOT to contact an attorney for ROR who will undoubtedly use any communication against you if you are not prepared.
"David" should likely churn this case for all its worth, but in the end ROR will fall. There is too much anti-ROR public sentiment. In the meantime, David can get paid - in my opinion, that's what this is about for him.
ROR goes after anything that is Anti-ROR with a vengence... which is why, even after suing SEOmoz - which is laughable - David still is now showing up in the comments section here. Because he sees that now he cannot fight this thread, even though he is trying desperately to get it removed.
Once more Senators, Judges, Mayors, Attorneys, Doctors, etc. get wind of this ROR fiasco, it will come down. It must.
Someone mentioned somewhere they wanted to post rediculous things randomly on ROR about all of the most important people they could think of so that they would rank high in ROR for absolutely incorrect accusations. These important people will not stand for this, but ROR will let you post this if you want to take advantage of ROR's strange, high rankings in Google and you feel that these "important people" have wronged you, or you simply feel like posting false things about them anonymously on the internet.
Why is ROR hosted in Turkey David with no clear-cut US presence? Sure, they have a right to be, but why is ROR hiding from the people that want answers?
Why was ROR removed from MSN and Yahoo's Search listings David?
ROR is quite simply considered by most to be the scum of the internet. This thread confirms that, and even in your own comment you basically acknowledge that this is true.
Standing behind "upopular loopholes in law" is likely not a good long-term legal strategy, although it can make attorneys fairly wealthy.
If you don't change reports, why was Sergey Brin's report changed David? Why did you change his name in that report? Very interesting, indeed. You better convince "Xcentric" you're really doing a good thing here and milk as much cash as possible because there is no winning this one long-term.
ok120,
I don't know what you mean when you say that I "will undoubtedly use any communication against you if you are not prepared." HUH? I am not here to sue anyone, nor do I want to scare anyone. I just want to add a little balance to this very unbalanced discussion.
A few other things:
1.) Ripoff Report does not "desperately" want to remove this thread. This thread has been here for years, and that’s not going to change. You guys have the same First Amendment rights we do, so please speak onward. However, sooooooo much of what is posted here is either 100% false or 99% misleading, so my only goal is to help those who haven't already made up their minds to see there are two sides to the story. Got a problem with that?
2.) "Why is ROR hosted in Turkey David with no clear-cut US presence?" Um, we're not based or hosted in Turkey. Ripoff Report is operated by Xcentric Ventures, LLC which is an Arizona-based LLC in good standing with the Arizona corporation commission. We're easy to find if you know where to look.
3.) "Why was ROR removed from MSN and Yahoo's Search listings"?
Simple -- because people lied to MSN and Yahoo about us, claiming Ripoff Report violates the law when, in fact, it doesn't. Look -- you can call us "scum" if you want, but I think this says more about you than it does about us.
We run a message board. People post comments there. Some comments are nice. Some comments are not nice. But since we don't write any of these comments, please don't blame the wall for the graffiti.
Oh, one last thing, I can see that paying attention to accuracy isn't really all that important to you, but let me comment on this:
""David" should likely churn this case for all its worth, but in the end ROR will fall. There is too much anti-ROR public sentiment. In the meantime, David can get paid - in my opinion, that's what this is about for him."
I am Ripoff Report's General Counsel, not its litigation counsel, so I no longer have anything to do with the lawsuit against SEOmoz. As General Counsel, I am not paid to bill hours, so really, this isn't about getting paid. Anyway, please continue pitching slow-and-down-the-middle comments like that and I'll correct them as best I can.
~David
[email protected]
Right, you still get paid, either way.
ROR is not the "good guy".
Here's a question for you David: why not simply disallow anonymous comments on your site? What's the downside for you there? Your response is likely to be that there is no "need to" and that other "message boards" don't. But, really, why not do that - and it will take ALL of the heat off of you. You still want some heat on you - or you want to hide behind the "law" for some reason... what makes it so beneficial for you to have this heat on you? Just for more indexed pages in a search engine that will eventually remove you (Google) after more and more heat builds. What's the downside to not allowing anonymous complaints? There is none.
BTW: You will end up actually hurting your company by getting involved with this thread and attempting this cover-up. Nice work.
I can't wait for your BS response. Lets hear this BS, because its BS and its coming... I know it is. And it says more about YOU then us... the hundreds and thousands that want ROR taken down. You can try to belittle people and companies who want you taken down, but it will only add fuel to the fire. Try to speak down to us - try to talk trash, put your "spin" on things. That'll do you a lot of good. =)
You're getting paid now for damage control. That's what you're on this thread to do. 99% to 100% lies?
Ok answer this:
If you don't change reports, why was Sergey Brin's report changed David? Why did you change his name in that report? It WAS definitely changed and you DEFINITELY changed it. And you DEFINITELY just purposefully dodged the question.
Answer this:
Who - what person - owns Xcentric Ventures, LLC?
Why will you not answer those questions? You and I both know why.
You claim me to be spitting inaccuracies, but then, you're an attorney. You get paid to tell people what they are saying is inaccurate and then give your own inaccurate side of the story.
Why are your servers located in Turkey? You'll claim you don't know - you're not a "Tech Guy" or something.. but you and I both know the reason.
You're suing SEOMoz and you're trying to play "nice guy" customer service agent in this thread... HAHAAHA.. you have to be kidding.
You're DEFINITELY here to sue people. You've already done so with the author of this thread. You're out of your mind.
BTW: What's your full name and what state are you located in so we can look up your credentials as an attorney?
You think MSN and Yahoo are going to listen to "people who lied to them" and remove a site from its rankings? They are huge companies and wouldn't do so without go reason. That's an insane response. They removed ROR because it is trash.
You'll "correct them". No, you really should "correct" your business model and advise your client - the mysterious wizard of oz who owns ROR - to do so immediately, because it will not work out for them at the end of the day. That's for certain.
ok120,
Why not disallow anonymous comments? If we did that, where would friendly folks like you post your comments without providing your real identity?
Look, as I already said I'm here to try to improve the dialogue between Ripoff Report and its critics. Given what you have said (calling me "scum", "insane" and "out of my mind") it's pretty clear that responding to you won't do much good in that regard. You've obviously got your own agenda, and nothing I say will change that, so please don't feel too bad if I ignore your future remarks. Unlike me, you're not being honest about who you are and what that agenda is, but hey, it's a free country, right?
If you'd like to debate the actual issues rather than talking about who owns Xcentric Ventures (sorry, that's not relevant to this discussion) or some obscure post from 2005 (which was long before my time), then I'll respond. Until then, you can continue misleading people as so many others before you have tried (and failed) to do.
~David
[email protected]
You're out of your mind. Answer the following:
If you don't change reports, why was Sergey Brin's report changed David? Why did you change his name in that report? It WAS definitely changed and you DEFINITELY changed it. And you DEFINITELY just purposefully dodged the question.
Who - what person - owns Xcentric Ventures, LLC?
Why are your servers located in Turkey? You'll claim you don't know - you're not a "Tech Guy" or something.. but you and I both know the reason.
You're DEFINITELY here to sue people. You've already done so with the author of this thread. You're out of your mind.
BTW: What's your full name and what state are you located in so we can look up your credentials as an attorney?
Oh, I see, saying you are "David" is revealing who you are. Right. I see you loud and clear. You are so unanonymous. Right. And, who owns Xcentric Ventures is relevant and whether it is or not, why not tell? You have an agenda House Counsel Dave.
Improve Dialouge. dying laughing ova heah.
No new comments in a while, so here is something you can sink your teeth into, if you are so inclined. Those who are in favor of taking ROR to task, as well as Google, and also are interested in what may be happening in regard to the CDA law, and the fact that it is under review, there is a new site that I encourage you to visit.
There is a pettition on the site that is available, of which you can remain anonymous if you desire, and still tell your story. This petition is directed to Google, and their seeming lack of concern with their participation in furthering ROR's blatant disregard of the civil rights of the individuals that have defamation reports on the ROR site. You get the opportunity to tell Google how it has affected you, or how you feel about it affecting anyone period, how you feel about a site that allows unsubstantiated reports that are ruining people's businesses and lives to continue to operate.
Also, there is information about ROR that you may find interesting. This is NOT my site, I am only sharing a link with you, but I am thrilled to see it in place. I do know that several of the larger media outlets that matter are investigating ROR and what is happening now, asking for interviews of ppl like myself. Thus far, only Ed has had a say in the media. It will certainly be a horse of a different color when Oprah or 60 minutes can document the destruction of lives and possible life threatening issues that are going on inside ROR. So, with that said, here is the link.
https://www.reportsripoff.com/take_action.php
Nothing that hurts so many people can go on in that manner forever. Nothing. The people will rally and they will find one another and lawyers will learn what way to enter lawsuits. It takes ONE suit to set a precedent. And, then the floodgates may well be opened. The CDA, with it broad brush, allowed too many loop holes, but remember, that can work both ways. I think that the other loop is about to be pulled.
Please support these efforts. It takes every one of us. Share it with others you know. And, it may be a good idea to begin telling fortune 500 companies who are being maligned on ROR that they are being done so. They have deep pockets. And, they won't be happy with a harlequin of a man who seems to think that he can twist the law, or hide behind it and not care what he does to our lives, homes, businesses in the processes. Did he really think that we would just lay down? Did you really Ed?
And, why ever allow personal reports. Why. That does not fall into the corporate bullying crap in any way. Let the personal ones come off, but no, he wants to make his site BIG and be the biggest dog on Google. Shame on Google. Remember that code of Ethics that I copied from their website? They are full of shit.
Want the truth? Here is just some of it.
https://www.paladinpi.com/content.php?id=21
There is a whole lot more the world needs to know.
Ok, with that interview what can be done? It is still hearsay, of a sort. And, with what the world needs to know, if you have it, what would you like to do with it? What are you doing with it?
There comes a time in everyones life that they are faced with an opportunity to do something, to right something and if you have what it would take to take this man down, do it.
Response from RipoffReport.com: Failed blackmail plot – trying to get Rip-off Report to remove postings. The video in the "paladinpi" link above, which we are calling the “Putt Putt Video,” contains deliberately orchestrated lies. Ed Magedson never offered to remove reports from RipoffReport.com for $500.00, or any amount of money. And, RipoffReport never authorized anyone to change the content of reports, period. Note: The “star” of this videotape told investigators that John Brewington did 3 different takes to make the video the way he wanted it. The maker of the Putt Putt Video is John Brewington, a private investigator from Arizona. He has done business under John F. Brewington and JFB Acquisitions. Mr. Brewington openly admits that he posted this video to retaliate against the editor of RipoffReport.com, Ed Magedson, because Mr. Magedson informed the Arizona Department of Public Safety that the Mr. Brewington committed perjury to a federal judge. “Now it is my turn,” stated Mr. Brewington. This video is carefully produced in an attempt to injure RipoffReport.com with falsehoods. We feel it is essential to expose falsehoods of this video and bring the truth to light so that the public will not be misled. The maker of the videotape, John Brewington John Brewington calls himself a “paladin” a knightly or heroic champion. He also states that he is the “managing member” of Paladin Investigations. Managing member is the term for the person in charge of a limited liability company or “LLC”. But “Paladin Investigations” is not a limited liability company, it is only a trade name for J&S Trust. And, we believe that John Brewington is the only person who works for J&S Trust. John Brewington testified under oath in deposition that he spent “hundreds” of hours investigating Ed Magedson without ever being paid by anyone. When asked, “you’re obsessed?” he responded, “someone accused me of being obsessed, yes.” Ed Magedson and his company sued Mr. Brewington last year (2008) for defaming Mr. Magedson and assisting a third party in a plan to attack and take down RipoffReport.com. The beginning of the Putt Putt Video reflects that it is “supplemental to the interview we were having.” The Putt Putt Video is only a small part of a longer interview. Mr. Brewington paused the camera in between the long interview and the shorter video – perhaps to rehearse or get straight what he wanted the people on the video to say. During the video, Mr. Brewington guides the two people in the video by rephrasing and spinning their statements, leading them to say what Mr. Brewington wants them to say. They readily agree with his spin.
The Putt Putt Video starts from a very biased viewpoint. John Brewington’s website explains that he produced the video to retaliate against Ed Magedson and Ripoffreport.com. It states that Ed Magedson’s counsel filed a complaint on his private investigator’s license, and “Now it’s my turn.” This is posted on the webpage just below where this videotape was first posted. Ed Magedson’s complaint was filed with the Arizona Department of Public Safety (“DPS”), the regulatory agency that licenses private investigators. It notified DPS that John Brewington lied to a federal judge about Mr. Magedson. Mr. Brewington was refusing to answer questions regarding the identity of Ed Magedson’s neighbors that he interviewed. Mr. Brewington told the federal judge that he did not want to answer because he thought identifying the neighbors would put them “at risk.” While under oath, he told the judge, “All of the neighbors have expressed great fear, both physically and from being defamed on the Internet, if their information is disclosed.” Mr. Brewington was ordered to disclose the information. Three months later, Mr. Brewington stated the following under oath:
Q: “But is it your testimony that [name of neighbor withheld] told you that she had great fear of Ed’s physical – including physical harm, that she could be physically harmed?
A: No. I don’t think anyone ever indicated physical harm.
Q: So none of the neighbors you spoke with told you that they feared physical harm as a result from Ed?
A: Correct. Tony Agerone The videotape features a man named Tony Agerone, who claims that he witnessed Ed Magedson offering to remove a posting about Putt Putt car lot on Rip-off Report for $500.
The statement is ludicrous. Ripoff Report has battled dozens of very expensive lawsuits to protect its right NOT to remove reports. These dozens of lawsuits could have been avoided if RipoffReport.com would agree to remove reports. It is absurd to think that Ed Magedson would offer to remove a report for $500.
Tony Agerone later denied knowing the Putt Putt car lot or Lloyd Jorgeson. He did admit that Brewington coached him on what to say in the video. Police records reveal Tony Agerone’s history of involvement in criminal activities, including: · 2000 - assault and disorderly conduct· 2001 - two counts of endangerment· 2002 – assault· 2004 - theft of means in connection with the theft of a boat· 2004 - disorderly conduct· 2005 - false reporting to law enforcement (he falsely reported that Jay Silvers’ wife who is mentioned in the Putt Putt video hit him with her vehicle)· 2005 - threatening and intimidation· 2007 - false reporting to law officers Krysta Agerone
The woman in the videotape is Krysta Agerone, Tony Agerone’s daughter. She claims that two people, John Unger and Matt Mott, edited the content of postings on Ripoff Report.com. That statement is fabricated. Matt Mott is the father of Ms. Agerone’s child and has sole custody. Also, John Unger has had no involvement with or access to the Ripoff Report since 2003, and is completely removed from contact. John Brewington’s own website posts a link to an order of protection that Mr. Unger sought against Mr. Magedson back in 2003. Texas Small Business Owner Shawn Richeson Shawn Richeson of Computer Nerds and Click a Nerd in Killeen Texas is not in the Putt Putt Video, but he and Mr. Brewington have tried to use it against RipoffReport.com. Ripoff Report.com first became aware of the Putt Putt Video when Shawn Richeson, the owner of an online business operating in Texas, sent a link to the lawyers for Ripoff Report.com. Richeson’s email essentially threatened to post the videotape if Ripoff Report.com did not take down postings on the website about Richeson and his business Computer Nerds and Click a Nerd. RipoffReport.com does not cave in to blackmail and extortion, and instead informed Mr. Richeson that the video was false, and then Ripoff Report began an investigation to uncover the hidden identities of the actors in the video tape, and get to the bottom of the plot. Previously, Richeson admitted to posting an altered audiotape of Ed Magedson online, and completely fabricating a story about the FBI raiding his computers. He also has a criminal record. In 1997, Richeson received two convictions for deceptive business practices. Both convictions were misdemeanors. He pled guilty and was fined $500. In 1995, Richeson was charged with felony theft which involved money and a computer. Those charges were dropped because he made restitution and he pled guilty in another related case. In 2000, Richeson was convicted of felony theft involving 25 computer systems. He received a six month state jail sentence and a $10,000 fine (plus court fees and restitution). However, whether Richeson is a hardened criminal or just a small time crook, it is clear that he and John Brewington are working together. As soon as Mr. Richeson learned that Ripoff Report.com was investigating the origin of the videotape, Mr. Brewington sent an email to our investigator with four little words. “Welcome to the game,” said Mr. Brewington. UPDATES TO COME
Glad to see your dicotomy of a lawsuit. You briefly touched on the violation of Google policies, but has anyone initiated a lawsuit about the tactics of rip off report and how their method of rebuttals actually boosts their ranking on Google and other search engines? When comanies actually file a rebuttal, this re-indexes that particular page with another reference of their company name and actually boosts that particular page's ranking in the search engines.
So maybe the approach should not be towards defemation, but that the current method of rebuttals actually hurts the company rather than helps them. Additionally, if the company files a rebuttal, the complaint is still posted at the top and the rebuttal is below that, so it continues to drag a customers through reading past complaints before they can see how the company responded to the complaint.
Personally, I work with a company that handles about 500,000 inbound calls per month to our call center and get about 1 - 2 postings in rip off report per month and it makes us appear to be a horrible company.
In an email complaint to them in 2006, here is a direct quote from Ed since he handled our complaint directly:
"... We also offer a paid service where we can make your comments come first, and we can add something permanent and positive to the title along with a review after interviewing your company on the charges made against you, changes you made and what we now know about your company, ..maybe with a commitment of refund, satisfaction and a special e-mail address for consumers to get special help!... Like we say on our home page, ... just because a company is listed on Rip-off Report, does NOT mean you should NOT deal with that company or individual. Quite the contrary, ... now as a consumer you know what to look out for, ..as an educated consumer is your best customer. ... Remember, all companies or individuals will get complaints, ... how those businesses or individuals handle those complaints separates good business from bad businesses."Is that not extortion since they will manipulate their format if we pay them?
Hi Everyone,
Tina , I feel for you and everyone, and I hope this site is going to do something and make a difference, Smitty ,I would like to see, Complaintsboard's Name listed in your petition, as I know from this site and my own investigation, it's the same owner's of ROR and a few other sites. Like many others on this site, I have been consumed by this, and can not believe How this had been allowed to go on. I know the Answer, Someone is making Alot of Money off these sites. Again on the back's of Hard working people. Something has to be done SOON. Smitty I will be looking for you too add complaintsboard's name to your petition. Thanking you in advance.
Thanks
I am having a problem with iPetitions. They cannot get me signed in to check the internal items, like while you cannot see any information, I, as the creator should be able to see and edit all. I cannot edit the petition. There is a problem with the system. We have been going round and round for two days. I may have to switch petition sites. I am sorry for that. If I do, I will need you guys to sign again, but I only have five signs anyway. I need more support than that. No one can see who you are but ME. You are not putting yourself at risk. The information would be handed over to a person in congress or a lawyer. If no one is willing to support the effort, why bother?
Really? I had no idea it was the same owner, are you sure?
My question is, how do they make money. Can someone please explain that to me. They have a few banneres floating around, but not tons & we know not everyone gives them money to be removed.
Michelle
I am not so sure that they are the same owner. They are definately cut from the same clothe.
If the people who post the reports were forced to give a legitimate name, date and time the event happened and details, then it would allow the entire thing to flow in a different direction. And, it would allow the accused to sue the hell out of anyone who place defamation or libel on the board. That, then, would stop the shit that is going on.
When I read Ed Magedsons interview with Phoenix New Times, his arrogance and happiness with himself, and the fact that this appears to all be a game to him, struck me in the face. He is very possibly one of the most evil people I have come across if he indeed is as he came across in that interview. I, too, am an old hippie and he does not come from that school of thought nor from the Golden Rule. Nada. We are puppets on a string.
But, if he has any sense, he has to know that all it is going to take is one well organized group before congress with WELL documented information as to how these sites have affected business and lives and this will change.
So, you have to keep records to substiate what you are saying, not guess. You need to make hard copies of the reports made against you, copies of any correspondence you have had with the sites trying to make sense of the report, or prove them wrong, and copies of anyone trying to get you to "join" their corp. thingy and pay money to "help" the situation.
These are massively important. Some states allow you to record conversations by phone as long as only one party is aware of the recording. You need to find out what your jurisdiction allows. In my state, I can record anyone who calls me and use it, it is ok because it is allow in my state. As long as one party speaking on the call is aware of the recording. And that would be me.
We can no longer complain. We have to now get smart, and work. This will take a smart, united front. I will continue to go through the maze of organizations until I get to the right places that I can get us in front of. YOU HAVE TO BE THERE WITH ME. If I stand there with my proverbial dick in my hand and no one there, it will be bad. Sorry for the comparison, but that is the way it is. I am a fighter, but do not hang me out to dry. Fight with me or say you will not NOW. There is power in people. What Steve Miller wants to and is trying to do in Fl can be done ten times better with ten thousand people.
ARE YOU WITH ME????? Remember that I have cognitive MS and if I misspell a word, the grammar is incorrect or you strain to understand something, try a little harder. When I send something that matters, I will redo it over and over for any of those problems, but right now, I am firing off to you without looking for those things. So please forgive. The brain is intact, but sometimes, a salt shaker is not a salt shaker.
I have to be clear here that I don't feel that all complaints or stories of a sitatuion is considered slander or libel.
I have my own review blog for companies, another one for independent contractors & even one for consumers who commit chargebacks which is credit card fraud.
I feel I have every right to tell others my experiences.
I don't hide who I am, & I tell the complete story from my point of view. That's why I'm very long winded, I always make sure I cover all the facts.
In turn, if anyone wants to post, I will insist on their real name & address & phone number just to be fiair. That doesn't mean I'd give it out to the entire world, but I want to make sure they are a real person.
My point is, I do feel that something is needed online, the difference is, something that is fair & not competitors lying, disgruntled employees or contractors lying, or mean spirited people out to get others, etc.
I have the right to my opinion & I don't just put anyone on my blogs, it has to be something that is very clearly mistreatment & I feel others should be forewarned. It's up to them if they wish to purchase from that company, or hire that independent contractor & as far as consumers committing fraud, well, no one seems to care about this issue & it's a big one, just ask any small company who's experienced it or lost their merchant account because of it.
I do search online before I purchase & I would want others to warn me of experiences they had with a company where the product/service or customer service was not of quality.
Just wanted to be clear on my point of view here. I've already had people (independent contractors) retaliate calling me a scammer because they didn't like what I had to say about them, & when it comes to the companies, you should hear the names I am called, but really I'm sick of people getting away with what they do.
People have never had to be held accountable before. I mean prior to the Internet, consumers couldn't compare one company to another, search to see if someone they were about to hire had been a low level worker b/c companies aren't allowed to tell the truth about their previous employees, etc.
Now you can, & I feel that's important.
Michelle
Those that need to know will know what to do with this information. You friend Tina is a victim. The Tina in the post is a pseudonym used to disguise the real identity.
Think about how you feel over these posts. People loose self esteem, their ego is bruised. They become paranoid and loose sleep over what their neighbors, family or co-workers will think. It gets worst as others pile on with the post. At some point in time you might consider paying to make it go away. Join the CAP or pay SEO guys to push it back.
Many individuals can’t afford to pay either and have to suffer the consequences. But business can pay. Say they choose to sue the cost will be at $100,000.00 and more. The post is costing them revenue everyday. They are spending money every day in legal costs. Oddly there are more posts being adding to the already existing ones. The pressure is on. At what point do you crack and cave in?
The Rip Off Report is a law suit conduit. We have already seen that his own attorney is the recipient of some cases. As we see in public record Magedson was due to get a commission and his attorney knew it. We have seen that he tried to get people to lie and to post inaccurate information on the Rip Off Report.
In George S May vs Xcentric Ventures, LLC Opinion and Order by Charles R. Norgle, District Judge. “Discovery has reveled that the Defendant (Xcentric Ventures) sought to enter into a business relationship with the Chicago law firm of Blim & Edelson,LLC (Blim). Blim holds itself out as a law firm which “prosecutes class actions throughout the United States on behalf of consumers. Defendant attempted to negotiate a fee of $800,000.00 per year for this service.
So you make a commission for law suits. You get people to post inaccurate information. You go out and solicit statements from witnesses and potential litigants claiming to be an attorney and in violation of state statutes. The only way you will get paid is if the case wins. Does anyone see a conflict here? There is more law firms involved. Each state code of ethics has clear direction as to referrals and compensation. Even my license forbids me from taking a fee to refer clients to attorneys.
Here is a comparison. I work fraud cases every day. My insurance clients never tell me to find a cause to refuse a claim and in fact I never know what the result of my investigation will be as I have no decision making in the results. My job is to get the truth.
Sometimes on the surface a claim looks like fraud but my experience tells me there is more to it. I uncover every possibility and discover that there were plausible explanations to every question. If I worked on a commission, would there be an incentive for me to find the truth when the surface appears to support fraud? No. I would have an incentive to support my client turning down a claim.
Additionally my reports are discoverable meaning counsel can request them and if I lie, all credibility is lost not just on that case but all cases. Do you think once an attorney discovers his investigator has lied that attorney is obliged to notify the court or withdraw the case? What if the investigator was caught lying but opposing counsel can’t serve him for deposition or the other attorney won’t cooperate in serving for deposition because the testimony of the lying investigator implodes the case and the attorney is working on a contingency, which means all the work has gone to hell and there is no payday.
Do you think these attorneys know this? Do you think they know the power the negative post’s has on people and to further add more to the post or create of negative social media content puts the opposing side in a position to surrender more quickly?
What is sickening to me is that this is on the same par as the cyber bullying so much in the fore front in the media. On a personal level, I am not considered as vulnerable as a teenager so if I were to commit suicide over the false reports that were posted on the site that are so defamatory to me as a human being, to my moral character, etc., would it even matter?
It is akin to one and the same. I have been bullied by an anonymous person, lies have been perpetrated and it has affected me horribly. And at a time in my life when I am barely able to hold on. And by a person who had already brought a great deal of pain to my life. But, because I am not under 18, this is ok?
If ROR were truly a site for consumer issues, Ed should take personal postings OFF.
By the way, I should again note that Google did get ROR to change Larry and Sergey's names in the Report about one of the Google founders trying to mess with an underage girl in a coffee shop. So, Google acknowledges then that it is a harmful site... yet they leave it up for other businesses to get harmed? Why were the names in that report changed - but no other reports have been changed?
Do research on this scenario. I've read about it elsewhere. Can't place it. But, I've seen the actual report - it's still up - with the name's changed.
Here is someone who apparently works in collusion rip-off report. From what I have heard, he actually partners with Ed Madgeson. The company he worked for is run down to the ground too. They tried fighting multiple reports against them but failed miserable.
The man behind the reports was a salesman for them and to their surprise, they found that he was heavily involved in cyber terrorism, cyber extortion and was mentally deranged as can be seen from the reports. He was immediately terminated but is still tormenting them. He also had a collection agency background.
Having lost a lot of credibility clients and investors due to the reports, they tried changed the name of their business because there was no way to remove the offending reports. Their business was literally bust. But the new name also found its way into rip off report. All of it was the activity of one man named Richard Ackerman. He has filed reports on 5 different companies and tried extorting money from them.
And the company he was working for is again down to the ground having lost quite a couple of lucrative deals in the past month alone because of these reports. The CEO of this company is a good friend of mine and is devastated, but still going strong because of solid support from existing clients who are referring the company to friends. He has lost all the millions he has invested over the past 3 years.
CHECK THIS OUT: The CEO's Father is a well renowned scientist and is known worldwide for his contribution in the filed of fermentation technology, microbiology and biochemistry. He has written books on these which are a part of the syllabus in the universities of the US. He was the only scientist in 20 years to receive the post of an Emeritus scientist which is rarely given. TODAY HIS NAME IS IN MULTIPLE RIP OFF REPORTS AS A CHEATER, CRIMINAL, LIAR even though he is not a part of the company reported. Same with our CEO's wife. She has also been reported as a liar, cheater, criminal and husband beater.
One way to get to Ed Madgeson is through Richard. We would do anything to join a group which would bring down rip-off report.com He had one proudly mentioned to our CEO that he was a close partner and associate of Ed Madgeson of rip-off report and that if he brough Ed any clients who would pay up the extortion amount, he would get 40% of that amount.
Richard now puts up reports on people who he thinks he can rip money off easily...then he works with Ed to ensure that they are always in the 3rd or 4th position on google. Then 2 - 3 weeks later, after the victims have realized that they are losing business and going down the drain with their business which they struggled to build, he attacks them with demands for money with unrealistic reasons and statements with absolutely no substance. He keeps calling the, mailing the, harassing their wives and family at odd hours, uses very very vulgar language and torments them to death. And he promises and assures them that he will get the reports off the site if he is paid.
Now, Who is being harassed, tormented and extorted by Richard Akerman
VICTIM 1
https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/223/RipOff0223263.htm
Extortion amount: $50,000 upfront and $1500 per month to keep the reports off the site.
VICTIM 2
https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff244535.htm
Extortion amount: $57,000 upfront as a one time fee.
He tortured and tormented this man and his wife with vulgar phone calls till he became so disgusted that he had to leave working on his business and hire a lawfirm to counter Richards extortion demands. Richard associated him with the mafia, called him a gangster, kept telling him that the feds were after him. And what does this man do - He runs a top class company dealing with home appliances.
Here is a copy of communication with this victim...
This letter is in regards to Mr. Richard Ackerman. I am now aware that Mr.Ackerman is no longer a sales representative for your company. It has come to my attention that Metatran Technologies, realtimemeister.com, and Real Time LLC. the companies owned by Mr. Ackerman are no longer associated with your company. You have told me that Mr. Ackerman was only a sales rep in the US for your company and not a consultant. You also mentioned that he was terminated for abusive language, and cyber extortion towards customers. You also mentioned that Mr. Ackerman never paid you any money towards the website creation of Appliances Buy Phone, Inc. The monies were given to Mr Ackerman in Sept of 2006. Mr.Ackerman took the American Express deposit paid to him of 8000.00 which was supposed to be a deposit towards the project for his own use. Please respond to my email as soon as possibe for us to begin legal action against Mr.Ackerman.Thank you, S
Dear R,
Thank you for your fast reply. I am sorry for accusing you and your company of fraud and misrepresentation. Richard left me no choice but to believe you were heading for bankruptcy. It is terrible when someone like Richard represents your company since he is a reflection of you and your company. The reason he looked at other companies to sell me was his message about new management, and you about to lose millions in capital. Egocart would not even do business with Richard. He never gave them any money either. N of egocart told me he sounded desparate he called her countless times and emailed her till she cut him off. I can not believe that your company is not going after Richard for slandering you. He has done enormous harm to your companies reputation. I will not pay him a cent. Richard has an offer on the table, and if I was Richard I would take it fast and forget my telephone number and email. S
Original copies of this communication can be obtained for legal use.
VICTIM 3
https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff214184.htm
Extortion amount: $10,000 upfront as a one time fee.
See how this guy is pleading that he is innocent and has children and that no one should believe the report. He started losing a lot of business because of the report.
VICTIM 4
https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff190913.htm
Extortion amount - An unbelievable $100,000 as a one time fee.
This VICTIM FILED A CASE AGAINST RICHARD, HAD RICHARD JAILED AND ARRESTED, IS FIGHTING HIM IN COURT.
victim 5
This is the same company he used to work with earlier, this time with a higher extortion amount
https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/317/RipOff0317839.htm
Extortion amount: THIS TIME IT IS 85,000 AS A ONE TIME FEE with a threat that he will not give up damaging them till they pay him.
FROM WHAT I KNOW, THIS COMPANY WILL NOT PAY A SINGLE CENT TO RICHARD. They are tired.
Richards address and all contact details can be obtained very easily. In fact there is a suit against him now and he has to appear in court and can be easily nailed along with all the evidence. We can get to Ed through Richard. Moreover, all the victims mentioned above will join in to nail Richard and Ed and their Rip off report site which has cause devastating damage to hundreds of innocent victims.
Voice recordings of Richard Akerman trying to extort money, threatening to put up more stuff on ROR ( His favourite dialogue is - In just a few minutes, I am going to press the Submit button on the Rip Off Report site. What happened earlier is nothing compared to what is going to happen now.) He has also threatened on tape that if we give the evidence to any attorneys, law firms, cops or any of the other victims, he would put up many more reports and cause more damage.
See how the ROR site gives WEASELS the power to hurt others. Richard is 55 years old, divorced 3 times, owes a lot of money to his ex-wives and is flat broke. One of the victims did an asset check to see if he could be sued for damages and Richard has nothing at all. He lives on food coupons provided by the Government and rides a broken down bicycle. None of the victims mentioned above paid him as far as I know. I can say so because their reports are still on page 1 of Google.
Something has to be done about ROR.
[Edited by SEOmoz to remove link]
Inair you are an idiot to post this information from Lonsane. We have documents to prove the 25,000 or so my Parents sent to India for which we got nothing. I have evidence of $15000 in commissions WE EVEN PAID FOR LONSANE'S TELEPHONE BILLS! WE PAID FOR HIS PAYROLL AND HE KEPT THE FUNDS STEALING FROM THE STAFFERS.
You have zero common decency to post this garbage without checking the sources. Check this one out. Remember Lonsane is a drunk a liar and a cheat and that will never change. He will stab you in the back just like he did to me.
WE NEVER ASKED ANYONE ESPECIALLY LONSANE TO PAY ANY MONEYS TO US FOR ANY REMOVAL OF ANY POSTING EVERY SINGLE POSTING MY FIRM DID ON ROR IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE THAT IS WHY NOBODY EVER SUED US -- THEY CANNOT.
I WAS NOT MARRIED THREE TIMES, MY CRIMINAL RECORD IS 100% CLEAN AND LONSANE IS A THIEF WHO AFTER POSTING THE LIES ON HIS SITE CAME TO ME TO ASK ME IF I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN WORKING WITH HIM! CAN YOU IMAGINE?
Provide me with an email address and I will send you evidence of how Lonsane robbed us.
**********************************
this guy called us at 1:43 AM to make death threats after telling us to creat a site and then telling us we tried to rob him!
Lonsane was involved every step of the way and he is a coward who hides behind his "board" and his "teams of attorneys" all bogus nonsense.
**********************************
ProductWizard. com Date: Oct 4, 2006 11:39 AMSubject: Re: FW: ISSUES WITH THE WEBSTORETo: Richard at Real Time I should forward all these email to your boss so she can put you under control like last time you sissy. Come one keep sending them so I can forward them to her and show her how you really conduct business.HE STATED 'You remember you [sic. I] said':In my faith if you let someone off who did you harm they inherit your sins. So no I am not suing you thieving liar and cheat. Heaven will take care of your sick mind and you will soon be dead anyway so who cares right?! A man your age with heart disease because you are filled with hate and anger and that is what in the end will kill you and spare your wife and kids your sick presence. Hoping to hear the good new soon ... HE THEN SAID: YOU DUMB F**K, I never had it it is just the fact that you are like a leach and to get you from riding my ass for so long (which I am sure is a dream for you) I lied to you. Sucks doesn't it. I will see you in hell my bitch, in hell. Richie boy, I always win, don't forget that. Send that to your lawyer you worthless piece of s**t.On 10/4/06, ProductWizard. com wrote: Richard when are you going to sue me today tomorrow you are all words and I put you to shame you pussy, so ad you conartist. Your words mean nothing and you are nothing go back to living in your shack while I live in my posh neighborhood. You speak like a conartist as I so easily proved. Please send me the papers to be sued, so I can counter sue you and take all of the measily money you have ************************************SO TO ANYONE WANTING TO DO BUSINESS WITH PRODUCT WIZARD -- THE KNIFE CONNECTION OR ANY OTHER BUSINESS OWNED BY THIS LOUSE BE CAREFUL!RichardRego Park, New YorkU.S.A.
************************************
https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/380/RipOff0380676.htm
Now before you post more lies about me and my firm have the decency to check your sources. I see a lot of weasels here complaining about ROR when most of the posts are from individuals that were robbed by companies even as large as AT&T.
If you are not brave enough to contact me and discuss this provide your email address or a telephone and I will straighten you out on all this. One time we saved Lonsane's domain name which had gone down and without us the stores on his server would have been shut. We also had to intercede with his server hosting firm because Lonsane did not pay them for months. They shut down the client sites and we had to scramble to pay up.
I am physically disabled due to the incessant hours working for Lonsane while he stole my fees and my family's moneys.
This site is actually posting false information without checking it out.
Richard
[email protected]
First off, I was under the impression that hits do NOT count in elevating a PR. Unless something has changed, I was taught kws matter & backlinks matter, NOT hits.
I wasn't sure if you or the text you copied said that more people click on AdWord ads, but I believe that to be false.
After occasionally asking clients off & on for years, most people think the ads on the right side (AdWords) are spam & they prefer to click on the organic results (the ads on the left side.)
Michelle
Hits would be my term. I guess to me, following the formula put forth, links to pages, etc, creates more hits, therefore hits would be my term, not theres. If you are directed to other pages, you have create hits and more hits, etc.
As for all the information that I show in italics, it is cut and pasted directly from Google's Philosopy page and the "Ten Things Google Has Found To Be True. None of that is changed, that is directly from Google's Philosophy.
It is time for the rubber to meet the road!
So step #1 is coming up with a method of bringing together the victims who want to join the lawsuit.
There are thousands of companies mentioned on ROR and I cannot imagine any who would not want a negative posting removed. If each company made a small contribution then you would have more than enough for a retainer. But first and foremost, we have to find a method of gathering the names and contact information of the victims. ROR actually makes this quite easy, by perusing their site you get your list. But contact must be made and they must opt in. These victims have been burned by ROR and are going to be suspicious, so it has to be handled correctly.
Step #2, finding the facilitator. Smitty is very active on this site, perhaps you want to take charge of this and be the one who gathers the names.
Step #3, find an attorney. Think of all the potential future business clients you can get from taking the case.
Sara you got all of this going, can you comment please?
There are a couple ways to gather names. If you harvest them from the ROR site, you have to be careful as it has been rumored that he has made up companies to build his site. Another way, legally, would be to post in major newspapers a notice that you are seeking individuals and companies who feel that they have been harmed or wronged by information that has been posted to the site and give them a way to contact you. The third way is the blind iPetition. I can start that one today.
With a group pulled together, a list of names of people who are willing to stand together against the injustice that is being done to companies and individuals while allowing Ed to hide behind this law, may bring a lawyer out who would want the case and also a new law into affect to disallow this type of behavior. Maintain our law, but hold responsible the "Eds" of the world for allowing information to be posted that they have not verified before posting it.
Also, common sense should dictate some things. A report with a heading "Linda Stone is a Slut and Bitch Who Stole My Cat and had sex with a Jellyfish". should NEVER be allowed on any site. (I do not know a Linda Stone, so I am not referring to a person known to me, living or dead, just made up a name. I apologize in advance should one exist who may be offended by my choice of made up name)
So Linda, who is a school teacher and is embarrassed to death, calls, emails ROR and is, of course, ignored. She files rebuttal after rebuttal, which makes this report more alive than ever, and due to Googles rules, on front page forever. This creates companies that guarantee to remove you from ROR, but they do not. They bury you on page four on Google. That is not a guarantee, is it? You could become activated again should someone post comments or the like.
I am typing from the hospital today. The end result of all of this for me is that I started passing blood, I cannot eat or sleep. I have begged them and begged them. I sent them the phone number to the hospital, my room number, etc. In their rules, ROR, it says if a lie is put in their data base about you to send an email to Editior explaining it, and why, and it would be reviewed and subject to removal. They did not remove it and the report about me is as poorly written, and as ridiculous as the one cited. But, it has torn me to pieces. It is written like a four year old wrote it. Says I call my wonderful daughters whores, that I am constantly commited, I am a psychopath, and on and on. I cannot even breathe.
I put the reports that started all this on the site out of pain and I want them off. They were personal. They were not about any corporation or business. This has almost destroyed me. I can never tell any of you. I am really barely hanging on. I am so disappointed in the lack of human touch in Google or in ROR. Surely Ed has someone in his life that he loves or cares about, as someone in Google should. I just want OUT. I made a mistake and it is killing me. Literally.
Ok, just a note that not everyone on ROR is innocent. I'm sure there are companies who do rip off consumers.
Michelle
Smitty,
Some of the SEO guys out there are setting up mirrors of Rip Off Report posts because their stock in trade is to sanitize the reputation of those that are really bothered by the posts. They hope you are so concerned by your post you will hire them to push back the bad post.
Ironically Ed Magedson had complained that SEO terrorists are out to get him but look at the front page of Google for Rip Off Report. SEO advertisements and sites have pushed back The Real Rip Off Report story done by Sarah Fenske, the story that Ed Magedson absolutely hates. Look at the Google sponsored links at the side, all SEO reputation sanitizers.
That is awful. The whole thing is too horrible. I am too naive, stupid, dumb. I was the perfect wife for a serial adulterer, I must have idiot tattooed all over me.
This David Gingras character is a real scumbag.
- "I am not a liar." FACT: Well, to begin with, you've said you're not going to post here any more, you tried to hide your identity... and yet you still are posting your bullshit - so you obviously ARE a liar.
Here are some facts:
- FACT: ROR is not protected under the CDA. They changed the name of Sergey Brin.
Chagnging it did NOT meet the following test:
“A website operator who edits user-created content-such as by correcting spelling, removing obscenity or trimming for length-retains his [CDA] immunity for any illegality in the user-created content, provided that the edits are unrelated to the illegality.”
How is it possible that Larry and Sergey (spelling) have had their names changed on their ROR? What did the Google attorneys "work out" with ROR? Their negative reports are changed, but others are not?
- FACT: ROR is a shell game - hiding behind an "unknown" owner, hiding their servers in an "unkown" location.
- FACT: ROR has been BANNED by MSN and Yahoo because it is complete BULLSHIT.
So, I encourage all: SUE RIPOFF REPORT SUE RIPOFF REPORT SUE RIPOFF REPORT. And, also SUE David Gingras as well, the crooked attorney perpetuating the internet's largest extortion scheme.
hey, ok120, could you unblock your pm so that I can send you a message?
ok120,
I said I wasn't going to post anything further, but then you guys "outted" me and I felt compelled to respond to that. Oh, I also needed to let Smitty know about my PM I sent, so I think it's a little unfair to call me a liar just because I posted more stuff.
As for your CDA-related quote above, you CONTINUE to misunderstand the law. What that quoted section means is that if a website operator takes user-generated content and then changes the meaning to something different, then the website loses CDA immunity as to those changes.
In the example you gave, Ripoff Report decided to change Sergey Brin's name because it deemed that post to be a hoax. Of course, taking someone's name OUT of a report does not in any way compromise our CDA immunity unless that somehow changes the meaning of what was said in a significant way. Taking Sergey Brin's name out (or changing it to a fictional name) does not change the report's meaning, so it is a non-issue. I guess the fictional character could sue, but since there is no such person, I don't think this is very likely.
I don't know why you think this is so shocking. What does it prove? That we sometimes edit reports? Well, here's a news flash Sherlock -- OF COURSE WE OCCASIONALLY EDIT REPORTS! If you had read ANY of the judge's decisions in any of the cases Sarah talks about above (some of which are even linked in the footnotes), you would know that this is something Ripoff Report has always openly admitted, and not once has a judge ever found that this caused us to lose CDA immunity. Why not? SIMPLE -- because we don't make substantive changes...we don't take nice reports and turn them into negative ones. We make simple editorial revisions including removing material that we deem offensive such as profanity, pornography, etc. In addition, we also remove certain types of copyrighted material as we are required to do under the DMCA.
So, now that I have admitted (for the 20th time) that ROR does occasionally change reports, are you still going to call me a liar? Like I have already said, there's no question that between you and me, one of us is a liar and one is not. I think by now anyone reading these exchanges has a pretty good idea of which one is which...
David the report about me is a hoax, can you change my name please?
This is complete bullshit:
"In the example you gave, Ripoff Report decided to change Sergey Brin's name because it deemed that post to be a hoax. Of course, taking someone's name OUT of a report does not in any way compromise our CDA immunity unless that somehow changes the meaning of what was said in a significant way. Taking Sergey Brin's name out (or changing it to a fictional name) does not change the report's meaning, so it is a non-issue. I guess the fictional character could sue, but since there is no such person, I don't think this is very likely."
Of course changing the name compromises CDA immunity because it changes the PERSON involved in the story which CHANGES the meaning of what was being said. You're smart, right David? Passed the Bar? This is obvious.
You can't give a report about a hurricane and change it to an earthquake and say it means the same thing. You can't tell a story about a woman named Fran, change it to Oprah and say it means the same thing. The peeople are different and you're obviously full of shit.
Yes, of course, I also have "hoax" reports talking about the most random, rediculous things you could think of that are OBVIOUSLY false and written in broken language, etc. So "deem them as hoaxes" as well. They are OBVIOUSLY offensive. That's why people are so angry. So change them as well.
Instead, you try to extort money from people with a scam you call an "advocacy program".
And these are lies?:
- Have a shell company with no "person" that owns the business and you will not disclose an owner
- Are hiding servers offshore in Turkey
- You've been banned from MSN and Yahoo
- You wouldn't disclose your full name in this thread of comments until you were "outed" even though you're an "attorney"
- You have said you were no longer going to post, and still are.
What is your litmus test to "deem something a hoax" and change the names involved WITHOUT extorting the person or company involved?
Bottom line is you do not have CDA immunity when you changed Sergey Brin's name - it is easy to see, it does change the meaning of the entry, and you should be sued, taken off Google and eliminated.
And my prediction is one, if not all, of these things will happen.
ok120,
Not a single prediction you have ever made on this page has come true. In fact, I don't think that anyone who is still reading this page believes a single word you say. You just make stuff up, spew your garbage, and then pat yourself on the back. You're really a pretty disappointing adversary. There's no substance or logic to any of your words...it's like arguing with a child.
For my part, I am going to try and help Smitty if I can, but otherwise, I think my work is done here.
~David Gingras
General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC
[email protected]
You're a piece of trash.
This is complete bullshit:
"In the example you gave, Ripoff Report decided to change Sergey Brin's name because it deemed that post to be a hoax. Of course, taking someone's name OUT of a report does not in any way compromise our CDA immunity unless that somehow changes the meaning of what was said in a significant way. Taking Sergey Brin's name out (or changing it to a fictional name) does not change the report's meaning, so it is a non-issue. I guess the fictional character could sue, but since there is no such person, I don't think this is very likely."
Of course changing the name compromises CDA immunity because it changes the PERSON involved in the story which CHANGES the meaning of what was being said. You're smart, right David? Passed the Bar? This is obvious.
You can't give a report about a hurricane and change it to an earthquake and say it means the same thing. You can't tell a story about a woman named Fran, change it to Oprah and say it means the same thing. The peeople are different and you're obviously full of shit.
Yes, of course, I also have "hoax" reports talking about the most random, rediculous things you could think of that are OBVIOUSLY false and written in broken language, etc. So "deem them as hoaxes" as well. They are OBVIOUSLY offensive. That's why people are so angry. So change them as well.
Instead, you try to extort money from people with a scam you call an "advocacy program".
And these are lies?:
- Have a shell company with no "person" that owns the business and you will not disclose an owner
- Are hiding servers offshore in Turkey
- You've been banned from MSN and Yahoo
- You wouldn't disclose your full name in this thread of comments until you were "outed" even though you're an "attorney"
- You have said you were no longer going to post, and still are.
What is your litmus test to "deem something a hoax" and change the names involved WITHOUT extorting the person or company involved?
Bottom line is you do not have CDA immunity when you changed Sergey Brin's name - it is easy to see, it does change the meaning of the entry, and you should be sued, taken off Google and eliminated.
And my prediction is one, if not all, of these things will happen.
....
Watch it happen. You have far more people gunning for you than me.
Enjoy...
David, I have to respond to that!
Changing the name of the accused CERTAINLY 'changes the meaning of the report'!
Imagine a news report about me breaking into a house. The reporter knows me so changes my name to some dead person's. It's no longer a 'report' but fiction. TOTALLY 'changes the nature of the report'.
Now, if the reporter changes my name and SAYS SO, to anonymize it to protect me from possibly false allegations, the report remains unchanged as a report. The anonymous name becomes a part of the report instead of mine. Otherwise it's a LIE by the reporter his/herself!
I have no legal training, just a high school graduate but you certainly don't want me on any jury you're trying to convince.
Something, I have Noticed, TRY IT!!!
After Googling several other companies names with the word Complaints, or Ripoff after them, I was AMAZED at just How many Large companies are also being Slandered by these SOB's. Someone should Email them all to jump on Board. after all I'm sure they have more resources than the smaller guy. I think this type of thing is alot BIGGER than most of us Realize. WHERE are the YOUNG ATTORNEYS looking for their BIG PAYDAY. THIS IS IT!!!. It has ALL the MARKINGS of the BIG ONE.. Also PR people, are you sleeping!!! Would Love some feedback on this one.
There is one thing that we have to consider too, I don't think that Ed has a pot to pee in. It may be hard to get an attorney to take a class action. It would have to be proven he has anything worth going after. From all accounts, he is pretty broke. I think law change is what this is going to take, not breaking Ed. He is already broke. He just walks with a swagger.
One other thing we may have down the pipe, is that if the names of the authors are finally released, people who have been harmed may be able to go after these low life, chicken hearted, rat faced ppl who have been very happy to promote lies in the shadows. When the light is on them, they may not have a corner to scurry to like the cock roaches they are. There just may be some pay days down the road.
To me that's not too helpful. Nobody cares if the poster has been convicted of defamation. All they still see is the headline on Google search. To me that's the real problem.
If the site gets closed down, so will the heading in Google, the defamation. If the law gets changed, sites like that cannot allow this to happen in the future. THat is our goal. But, ppl who have experience loss and damages deserve to know who has done this to them too.
OK, I found this group: Save The Internet
https://savetheinternet.com/?JServSessionIdr006=stld0t4l13.app43b
Who are fighting for internet freedom, and I joined them. I created a blog site that I want you all to go and join please:
Consumers Against Defamation On The Internet
https://stopinternetdefamation.blogspot.com/
I joined the save the internet ppl to bring awareness to them regarding the fight we have on our hands. All is not peachy keen for freedom here, the CDA needs a second look. So, I am gonna fight, are you with me?
ARE
[[REDACTED]]
I can't tell if you are just spamming your site to get a link, or you really were a victim of the Rip Off Report.
That begs the question why you didn't give us the URL of the site you mentioned, since babysitting has nothing to do with cyber abuse.
[[REDACTED]]
[[REDACTED]]
2 things:
1. Just people clicking on a link does NOT raise a site within the SEs. Never has, probably never will.
2. The laws have to be changed. Cyber stalking & cyber bullying runs rampad online.
The police can't do a thing b/c they are swamped. I was told this years ago, so I'm sure the numbers are even worse now.
Millions of women are stalked online every year & are frightened to death.
Probably more than that are bullied. I'm bulled often on some forums that are run by people from only one specific type of country. On yahoo groups I'm bullied all the time by really nasty people, but I have no choice but to be on this Yahoo group for reasons I won't disclose.
The people who create the laws don't care. They aren't the types to even go online, they probably don't even know how to search anything in the search engines, let alone talk to people online unless it's thru e-mail.
The only time anyone seems to care is if it's a LARGE corporation that got hacked. When it concerns money & a corporation that has a lot of power (watch the doc "The Corporation", it's disgusting), they care.
They don't care about the mom & pop companies, or even the small to medium companies. They certainly don't care about the small online companies b/c they just don't care about what's happening to people period & when it comes to the Internet they are soooo ignorant, you'd think the Internet just launched last year. They also have no respect for the Internet, many still claiming it's a toy people use. Just stupidity.
That's my opinion.
Cyber stalking & cyber bullying didn't just start a few days ago, I was stalked by 2 different people (one a female) & also e-mail bombed back in 2000. 11 years later & there's no more laws out there than there were before.
Oops, I take that back. The fantastic NEW laws they put in place were the ones that affected affiliates, so now tons of affiliates have lost their way to make money. When it comes to taking money from people, just watch how fast the laws get passed.
There are tons of sites that show how bad this epidemic is, but for some reason, no one gives a shit.
Actually there was a case last month I think it was & the judge ruled that b/c her stalker didn't do it in person, it really WASN'T stalking, so he was free to go & stalk someone else.
These judges are complete morons.
In fact it's MUCH easier for people to stalk online than it is off. Once you allow people to get away with a crime, they realize they can do it over & over again. People who would never actually ever stalked before face to face, but maybe thought about it before, can do it so easily now.
Someone needs to start stalking & bullying these judge's daughters & see how fast they change their tune.
I love the Internet, but society is letting nasty people get away with murder just b/c it's done online. ROR is just one more example.
End of my rant LOL, you got me started.
Well my lawsuit against Google over Ripoff Report finally hit the media yesterday. I did EVERYTHING I could to avoid it getting this far but at the end of the day I am NOT going to be bullied out of my right to work.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/google-being-sued-over-ripoff-site/story-e6frgakx-1226200582207
https://www.smartcompany.com.au/legal/20111121-another-australian-sues-google-over-nasty-comments-posted-online.html
It is not surprsing that my blog traffic spiked.
https://drjaniceduffy.com/
From a legal perspective we are in court next month for 'argument' (rather than just 'mentions'.
Although a precedent was established in the High court with respect to liability for defamation (i.e. that it occurs in the place it was downloaded and in which the person has a reputation) there is not yet a precedent with respect to online liability. Obviously there is a real need for it but I just wish I was not the plaintiff :).
I intend to post updates on the blog.
Complaintsboard.com - I have reported the copying of posts to google. Do a site search and google and see how many copy complaints "Judy Stottmeister" has posted. All from different cities and states. Its terrible. "site:www.complaintsboard.com Judy Stottmeister"
This is not the only fake user to post copied complaints, I am sure there are hundreds more.
I am going to spend a lot of time here to explain what has been missed by the greatest legal minds. Sara had asked earlier if ROR not having lost a case was a fault of the legal system. Its not the legal system, its the lawyers. I have a saying that I don't know if its original to me, "I will spend every dime you have to prove my point".
For lawyer its "I will spend every dime you have to prove your point". From my point of view they have spent a great deal of time trying to reinventt the same broken wheel that being defamation from ROR.
In one of my ROR posts you will see me accused of being in league with Steve Miller. Without spending needless time on this, that information is false. Where did it come from?
Robert Paisola is a ciminal convicted of various crimes, much of it to do with stealing. Ideas, websites, money whatever appeals to him.
In an attempt to ingratiate himself to Magedson and steal RORs business model Paisola told Magedson he was a journelist and wanted to do a story about him. Always being an opportunist Magedson gave him a story and it was about Steve Miller who at the time was Magedson main antagonist. Paisola didn't know Miller or have an interest in him. Magedson uses others to further his agenda so it looks like he has clean hands.
In my case he told some of the same lies and added more to them including impersonating law enforcement. Both of the people he spread that libel butter on went to ROR and posted what he told them, which is what he wanted. Of course they didn't use their real names but I have known who they are because they told me.
He even goes further by filing false police reports and getting his meth addicted "firends" to add affidavits and create and edit posts. It all part of fear. Being investigated by the police can be unnerving even if you are innocent. Could cause a less dedicated person to say, "Hey, I don't want any part of this". However the police know what he's up to. Seeing your name in an unflattering fashion is also unnerving. Do you think all this will prompt you to settle a law suit, join CAP or just go away. For most but not me.
So ROR is set up by Magedson and his moneys to solicit comments from comsumers. They even create posts, try to get the medias attention and law enforcement. They then go to attorneys and sell the information for class action suits. Magedson has admitted before he helps consumers write the posts or headings. He has denied ROR creates or edits but that lie is way over with.
In George S May you will see he is trying to sell litigants for $800,000.00 a year.
There are organizations that act as legal referal companies. The General Bar, The National List and others. The purpose they serve is to find attorneys that fit the purpose of the case. There are criteria that forwarders need to meet according to the Arizona Bar Association and other states. Arizona defers to the American Bar Assocaition rules for forwarders, here is a link to the rules.
https://apps.americanbar.org/legalservices/lris/modelrules.html
ROR does not fit this profile. It may not be a problem for him, it could certainly be a problem for attorneys that use ROR as a referal source. Why?
Because in Pizza Hut you will see that Magedson was trying to shakedown Pizza Hut and threatened to do many things including get it to a law firm for suit if they didn't cooperate. The disclosures of the case show he admitted to trying to get witnesses to lie. The video also says the parties thought he was trying to get them to say things that weren't true.
Eventually it did go to an attorney, Maria Crimi Speth. The young woman in the video, deposition and Magedson's cruel post ,was a client of Speth in the Pizza Hut action. From the video she didn't really seem to have a cause of action. The deposition showed she didn't even seem to know her lawyer. That case was dismissed by the courts.
Whats the problem? Well there is action by the bar and Arizona Supreme court against attorneys that do not meet with clients at the initial interview. It appears that happened here and more than once. Also if you are filing suits based upon the actions of a biased thrid party that has a self interest in the outcome, there are plenty of problems. In this case one of the clients was to pay Magedson 50% of the settlement, Speth was to take 30% leaving 20% for the "victim" out of which would come expences.
As an investigator I would never do anything on a contengency because it can bias the outcome. Pull out the information, provide it to attorneys and let them do what they have to do.
Magedson was out getting statements and affidavits and handling them over to lawyers. Suits were filed based upon that. Magedson was to recieve a commission. Leagally he had no permissible purpose to do any of this. When the opposing party tried to depose him, Speth would not cooperate.
If you listen to Danny Scalfs recording on my blog, you will see thats what he was doing. Attorneys are not allowed to split fees with non attorneys. Scalf is trying to get attorneys to buy their investigations and legal support services and suggested they could go around the split fee isue by having the attorney make a donation or pay up front. Is that a problem? ROR has no legal right to investigate. Yes they try to claim they are journelists but that just a front to get around the system. They are a consumer reporting agency.
Now we get to the heart of it. Forget the word credit. Consumer reporting agencies produce reports that are supplied to the public, as such they are regualted by the Fair Credit Reporting Act. ROR is nothing more than a source for generating those reports. Those reports and the contact information for the posters are sold to attorneys.
The law states that if the information used "could" result in a negative impact. That means being turned down for jobs, fired, sued, etc. The law is created to provide recourse to consumers who are effected by the material in their file.
So in my case, two people using alsias' wrote posts that have no truth to them. Well three if you count Eds. Under the law I have a right to dispute the validity of the post and ask that it is verified. I also have the right to know who the poster is so I can clarify the issues with them.
ROR is responsible to investigate the posts within a prescibed period of time that a dispute has been received by them. If they can't verify the content is true, then it must be removed. There are other interesting items in the law and before you or attorneys that have screwed things up so far say anything, read the damn law.
This is perfect. For those who have been lied about they can now have this fixed. For those that been doing things they shouldn't, it can stay on there.
In some cases there will be a temptation to say, hey this guy was arrested 25 years ago and therefore he is a Con-artist or deadbeat and we won't remove it. Nope. The law covers the event in dispute and not the total.
So you start exposing The Real Rip Off Report, suddenly you get threatening emails. Negative posts all over the place and sued.
It is not a good idea to file false or frivolous law suits for the purposes of shakeing down insurance companies. It is not a good idea to file a false claim on ones license. It's not a good idea to suborn the perjury of others. Its really a bad idea to make it personal with someone who has the resolve to set things right.
I have disputed items posted about me with ROR and will provide the template for others to do the same. I am in the planning stages for filing law suits for violations to the FCRA and will be looking for others who will want to join.
If you are someone that has been sued by an attorney that was referred by ROR, I would like to know. If you have had any adverse act as a result of a consumer report supllied by ROR, I would like to know.
My name is John Brwington and I approve this message.
I have got my blog on the web and have linked to your website. Let me know if that is a problem. We are going through the pre-trial processes and in defamation cases they are pretty intense and take time.
Google haven't lodged a defence yet but legal opinion is that the defamation posted on ror is 'serious'.
Google know about Ripoff Report but it will be awhile before we know how much they are protecting them.
Hi Shawn J.
Well we were in court today and the Judge set a date for argument over the imputations. My lawyers listed 31 in their action and defamation matters typically go through interlocutory processes to determine if these hold up. I reiterate that I am NOT a business. I was actually a consumer who unwittingly posted on ror about a ripoff and after Ed gave my login details to the company they were able to find links to my online professional activities and create reports that stated I committed crimes against them. I have an unusual name and profession so it was easy to identify me in a internet search from the details provided by the mongrel.
In Australia the defendant has to provide evidence to the truth and so even if Ed passes on the IP numbers of the employees that posted the reports to Google they cannot find any evidence that I committed crimes against the company because it does not exist. To be clear I was not an employee of the company, just someone who thought ror was legit and posted about a ripoff…a consumer who they destoyed...and yes i explained all this in the many email to Ed and their attornies but they were never answered. Ed is right. I cannot sue them but I can sue Google and I am!!!
Thanks to the way that ripoff report spreads its poison about consumers who report in good faith, the internet the imputations are pretty clear in words like ripoff, scam, fraud etc in a search for my name on google. So there is prima facie defamation. Still there has to be legal argument because that is the way the law works.
Sorry about the typos and spelling/grammar errors but I cry every time I write these posts. Madedson is a heartless mongrel. I was a CONSUMER who posted in good faith about a ripoff. One of the comments on one of the ror reports that posted my phone number said for everyone to 'harass her' . They did!
I pleaded with ror and Google to remove the links because of my employment. I did not want to sue. I just wanted them removed. They both either ignored or refused my pleas and so i have no choice but to fight back.
I apologize for the delay in response.
We have been doing a proposal for a US Government computer helpdesk contract and I have been inundated with last minute details.
I really feel for your situation.
At first, I thought you were a damaged business in Australia.
Now I understand your plight.
Yes, I would be happy to talk with you.
My direct line is: (602) 910-4026
You may get a call from one of my technicians thinking you are a client looking for computer help.
If so, please just ask for Shawn Richeson and they will send it to me immediately and I will call you right back.
Incidentally, what is the time difference between Killeen Texas and your location in Australia?
This way I can plan around your call.
Take Care
Shawn
Hey, no discounting damaged businesss LOL, us small companie have feelings too & we rely upon sales to put a roof over our head & food in our stomach : )
They are around 12-14 hours ahead, depending on your time zone.
I would like to post some other contact details:
My skype name is: thetopnerd
My direct line is (602) 910-4026
Shawn A. Richeson
1906 Twilight Drive
Killeen, Texas 76543
[email protected]
I have a very important question.
I made my first post to ROR because I was extremely upset and getting screwed over by several different private investigators whom ultimately costs me the loss of some critical electronic information pertenant to a case I was involved in.
That first posting I made contains only my allegations but stated that there were tie-ins between that group of people and others I hadn't posted about yet.
When it came time for me to make my second post about this other group of investigators I decided to make sure that I would be able to incorporate into my RipOffReport, the actual evidence documents in support of my claims, especially since I hadn't offered any evidence in my first post which is this one:https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/224/RipOff0224694.htm
So now attempting to file a report on Steven Thomas Moffenbier/Jerry Thomas two individuals advertising themselves as California private investigators but are unlicensed, I wanted to make sure that the evidence I have to prove this would appear with the report. This evidence consists of court documents, audio files left on my voice mail, a cancelled check, FedEx delivery receipts, etc.
I have made several attempts to post the additional information by utilizing the UPDATE button on the ROR website. The website allows me to click on the UPDATE button and then to enter my information which consists of the original ROR # and the URL to my suppplemental page. I'm then allow to submit this information at the click of another button where I receive
"Thank you for your comments... Your UPDATE will be posted just after midnight, Pacific Time. If you have identified yourself incorrectly under the wrong category, used insulting or foul language, or have provided incorrect contact information, your UPDATE will not be posted!."
This is the original report:https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/368/RipOff0368351.htm
This is the webpage I made to supplement the original report: https://stalkinginterventionsinc.org/RipoffReportmoffenbier.aspx
I have a series of screenshots showing me filing in the UPDATE boxes on screen and receiving the verification of my submission
While I haven't posted these screen shots yet, I will post them in the next week or so along with my correspondence with ED.
It would seem to me that preventing the UPDATE of a report so that it contains ALL pertinenet and current data, including information that could show the issue as "resolved" could be viewed as "editing".
If anyone has any ideas about this, please let me know. Thanks.
So when I decided
Well knowing that the PI industry can be VERY shaddy, if one did have a very negative experience, I feel those types of posts should be written up.
Are you saying Ed stopped you from updating your original post?
There inlies the question, when is it ok to edit someone's post & not edit someone's post.
Someone has to be the moderator.
As much work as it is to investigate these things, I think the owner has a moral responsibility to investigate, or at least wait until they have received 2-3 complaints about any one given company before they allow the posts to go through.
I will eventually want to find legitimate PIs, so I feel it's to my benefit if you post your terrible experiences, so long as they are legit & aren't bogus which is what was done to me & my company when non clients lied & posted saying I was a scam.
Thanks & Happy New Year!!! : )
Michelle
Well this is interesting. I've been trying to update the Moffenbier report for several months now and none of the UPDATES appear, but a posting I made recently to a report entitled "Labor Ready, Inc. Violations of Title VII, Sarbanes-Oxley, RICO?..." have appeared.
I also have additional documents to add to the Frank Coonis Report but haven't tried to UPDATE that one yet.
In my email correspondence with ED I sent him screen shots of the computer showing that his site was accepting my submissions but that they never would appear "after midnight" as promised. I asked him to show me screenshots of what he was seeing since he insisted the reports were being updated, but he never has done so. I haven't received anything (confirmation, responses, etc.) from RipOffReport after submitting or attempting to submit new postings in months.
I found the following on the Citizen's Media Law Project Web Site regarding exceptions to CDA 230 immunity:
"Lately, however, some appellate courts have been willing to limit CDA 230's immunity. This has primarily involved two types of activities by online publishers:
....
"So what are the practical things you can take away from this guide? Here are five:
I"ll let you know when I've updated the information on the PIs. I have evidence to substantiate everything I've ever said about them.
ROR screens and edits their postings. They DO censor.... they censor out content that is not negative.
I tried to post three times and three times they emailed me back saying my postings were not appropriate!!! First I tried to post a positive complaint. Then I tried to post a complaint about the anonymous user who made up stuff about me. Finally I tried to post a complaint about ROR. Of course they censored thosed complaints out of their system.
YET THEY claim not to censor anything. It's a lie. The fact that they prevented me from clearing my name through my own posts... interfering with my reputation repair .... is that not illegal?
THey did the same thing to me. Would not post my negative posts regarding the fact that they would not allow me to post to repair my reputation, and they will not post any consumer comments to any of the reports against me from me as a rebuttal, or my friends and family. Yes, that is interference, censorship and editing, imo.
Ture Martin, but understand even if you try & rebuttal it doesn't help, the surfer NEVER (I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule) reads below the initial post that is negative.
Ed Magedson is desparate for the world to see a post he created on Rip Off Report about me and witnesses in a law suit that Ed lost. Ed claims blackmail. As soon as he and his attorneys muttered the words I sent it to law enforcement but I just can't get anyone to investigate me.
Here is the post:
https://www.ripoffreport.com/internet/john-f-brewington-pa/john-f-brewington-paladin-inv-d9a79.htm
Everyone in the world should read this 6 or 7 times to get the full meaning here. Then they should go to the link that has the deposition of the young lady in the video Ed rants about. You can find that here:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/65264759
I find her grace and courage inspiring.
I thought you were showing us a recent post. Isn't the date on that from '09?
Have you been arrested that many times for those crimes?
I have been uploading documents to Scribd and will share a few here. Otherwise you can go to Scribd and look for paladinpi in the author section.
Here you will find some interesting reading. Daniel "Danny" Scalf declares that he works for Rip Off Report as a fact checker. WHAT????? Sometimes though he is an investigative journalist sometimes a forensic investigator. All of its BS. Its claimed he is a ghost writier for Rip Off Revenge and gets 40% of the revenue. He is posting on ROR for the purposes of selling law suits and investigations.
Danny has never been disclosed by the law firm, a point I made to the bar association.
You additionaly see here a transcript between Scalf and another party that is threatening to release tapes and other material. Danny indicated this would implicate Ed...I have the recordings and some other nasty items. He's right...it does implicate him
https://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/64724594?access_key=key-c1b2xmu754sq9n8xx56
Arrest? There would have to be vality to the claims for that to happen. Law enforcement refers to them as "That Group".
I was reading earlier comments on this blog and I noticed that the Ripoff Report attorney Gringas said if consumers do not want reports to be a permanent record they shouldn't post them in the first place and this is stated on the website.
I wonder if he will answer the question of why it does not state on the website that Madgeson passes on the details of consumers who post complaints on his website in good faith to the companies about which they complain?
Why doesn't warn people that by posting about 'ripoffs' consumers run the risk that the employees of these shady companies will retaliate with such vile 'reports' that the consumers lose their jobs and will have to endure harassment?
The website says:
Ripoff Report treats all victims as a confidential source…
So how does he explain passing on details of consumers without their permission?
The mongrel says on his website:
Other sites CLAIM to help consumers. The truth is they really only care about one thing -- themselves.
This should read that he only cares about one thing – himself
He says: ED will stand and fight – FOR YOU! Protecting the consumer…
ummm nope, he exposes the consumer to harassment and the complete decimation of their life but gee, he doesn’t say that on his website.
Read the garbage he wrote recently on this post: August 9th, 2011 | Ripoff Report disappears from Google index! De-listing causes SEO & Reputation industry to quake with fear….he says 'and it is the only review site that I know of that doesn't cave to bullying by businesses who want to hide negative information and that protects anonymous authors'.
Um....nope, he exposes anonymous authors to defamation and harassment. I wonder how much he got paid for passing on my details, $50, $100? There was absolutely no other way that my phone number could have been known by the people who posted the ror reports unless Magedson gave it to them from my login details at ror...none!!! I am hoping that when all this eventually comes out on the internet it will serve to warn consumers of the risks they face by posting on Ripoff Report. After all, ror does taunt non-US victims but they did not take into account that a non US consumer valued her career and reputation enough to sue Google.
Hey IA...your email is bouncing back. I want to provide you with some interesting material. In fact if you go to:
https://www.paladinpi.com/blog/rip-off-report/danny-scalf/
You will see in red "Friendly Remnder" This is a PDF document provided tome by Ed Magedsons former legal counsel. It might load slow so be patient, its worth it. I frankly don't know what to think of it, maybe you have an opinion? I know who sent it.
A, I PMed you to ask you a question, & got no response.
Did you receive my PM?
Thanks
Sorry I missed the pm - it seems that messages aren't shown when i login here so i must remember to check them. I have replied.
deleted repeated post
Wow Paladinpi, This ripoff report ' investigative reporter' wrote on one comment:
You arrogant SOB. You don't work WITH me... you work FOR me. You are my servant
and
Once you are notified of abuse, you must take action
So why is it that ror states that they didn't have the resources to investigate reports before the 'arbitration' program..was this Torelli guy a paid investigator?
He states in a comment (on behalf of ripoff report) that companies have to take action once they are notified of abuse so why didn't they take action when I notified them that I was being harassed as a result of the publication of my wrk phone number?
Ok I get it...you don't have to answer...the mongrel doesn't care about consumers...unless they pay for arbitration...is that right?
Frank Torelli is an alias for Daniel (Danny) Scalf. Why is he using an alias? Guess. Why was he never disclosed in any law suit? Guess. Is Torelli/Scalf a paid investigator? He lives in Arizona and the statues read that he has to be licensed as a PI to investigate. There are exceptions like a journelists for example which is what they try to pretend to get around the statute. He even discribes himself as a journelist in the posts, however in court papers he clearly claims to be a forensic investigator and provides information to Rip Off Report.
Danny claims to be many things even retired a federal law enforcement though in spite of never having been certified in any state. I guess its his "CIA" days. This part I find pretty funny since one of the claims Magedson and his proxies used on me was to say I made a claim of being a law enforcement officer both on the phone and confusingly in person when it was alleged I showed up at his house, an event that never occured. There is no doubt he fancies himself a spy. This master spy recorded himself violating several laws and acting as Magedsons stooge.
These recordings have been a real source of concern for all parties. In Danny Scalfs divorce, he received $65,000.00 from a mysterious benefactor that did not wish to be disclosed. The attorney it was being funneled through had some curious explanations for it. That same attorney used to be the registered agent for Xcentric Ventures. I will be putting it before the bar association soon enough.
So again is Danny a paid investigator? Well again he claims to be a journelist in the recording but you can hear him clearly trying to sell information to attorneys. Do legitimate journelists do that? He is clearly trying to sell investigative and litigation support to attorneys based upon information he is digging up on ROR. When an attorney tells him it is against the ethics rules of his states to split fees, the attorney is told he can make a donation or pay up front. Trying to find a way around the system. In the George May federal suit, a judge pointed out that Magedson was tring to sell class action suits to lawyers there for $800,000.00 a month. He also pointed out that a ROR had received "donations" from attorneys there.
So what? Well its against the rules. Why? Well in the Pizza Hut case you can see from disclosures that Magedson is threatening them that if they don't reach a settlement he will get them sued, send out flyer that could not be proved where they came from, picket the place so their income would dry up. Also in the disclosures he is saying that he tried to get people to lie.
To Lie? Wait a minute. This is a litigation support person. He is trying to put witnesses together, get affidavtis etc and he is trying to get witnesses to lie? Why?
Well because in that case he was to receive a commission on any settlement. It was in his best interest. Thats why the rules are what they are. Not suprisingly, Jaburg & Wilk handled that case. They also tried to file a class action that got kicked out.
That Pizza Hut is on the front page of ROR. The poster was Magedsons neighbor.
So in review you can hear Danny Scalf telling people they are a not for profit. No that is not true according to IRS rules. They say it is to project a fitting image. Why is that important?
Well if you can get people to post on ROR, then you have something to sell to attorneys.
Does it have to be true? Most law suits settle, they don't reach trial. If you have insurance like I do, they are not usually keen on shelling out lots of money on a law suits defense when its cheaper to settle. Its called a nuisance value. What is the dollar figure it will take to make this go away?
There have been claims that Magedson has some experience with this and those claims can be heard in the video I have out there. He has not been arrested or convicted and is innocent of all things till that happens.
By the way one of the myths ROR has written about themselves is that they never create false posts. Really? James P Rogers was nice enough to bring one to the readers attention here.
After the video came out Magedson sent investigators to Florida to interview one of the parties in the video. He claims in the post about me that they admitted that the video was rehersed and had muliple takes. etc. The investigators were not licensed in Florida so that act was illegal. Any way...Maria Crimi Speth diposes the young woman in the video and she was pretty clear, there was no rehersal beofre or during the shoot. The camera ran continuously except for one time when it was shut off because I was finished. The witnesses had more to add so I turned I back on.
The man in the video called me and claims he was being threatened by PIs and needed help. They told him he had better change his story. In the post about me you can see Magedson talking about them in an unflattering way. He used their names as key words in the ROR post. These were witnesses in a suit that Jaburg & Wilk filed and lost against me.
Not so coincidently, Aylon who got a foreign judgment againt ROR, received emails threatening the families of one of the principles for filing the suit. The email said that bad things would happen if they didn't come clean about their activites and they had to pay ROR $10,000.00. I now know who sent that email.
So with this little diatribe can you understand the real business model of ROR? Does it answer your question as to whether Danny Scalf is a paid investigator?
Get me an email address and I will send you some emails he was sending out, I got one when I was a witness in a ROR suit.
Had to walk the dog he was driving me nuts...I want you to think about something.
Many if not most of you do not have real close law enforcement friends or associates. I have plenty from all walks of life. Feds, local, retired, active. I even know spys and have for years through military connections. One was used to set up corporations in the Bush's food for oil plan. Company name was Trident. You figure it out.
I have never in my life ever heard anyone admit to being a CIA case officer. Ever. Even if they are just an asset...a contractor...this is not something you want to admit to and for so many reasons. Case in point, Valerie Plame
Scalf complains that he lost contracts because his ex-wifes outed him. Why on earth would any intelligence service want someone that taped themselves saying these things? They aren't an asset, they are a liability.
The only people I know that have made the spy claim are liars. They have self esteem issues.
Speaking of liars...here's an interesting tidbit. James P Rogers claimed that Magedson has many dummy computers in the event one has to be handed over. He also claims he was told by Maria Crimi Speth that if anything happens to Ed Magedson that James was to bring those computers to her? Why? Maybe hes lying. Maybe there is another explanation.
Allegedly there are also drop phones in the name of his contractors. Why. And debit/credit cards.
Here is a question that will never be fully answered. What do I have that they don't know about?
I got the issues fixed. Here is the link:
https://www.paladinpi.com/blog/rip-off-report/danny-scalf/
Alyon email. Click on it and enjoy. Shout your opinion even if your voice shakes.
Interesting reading
I never thought about it but the person who post the reports against me put my street address on the report. That is against policy, isn't it? My God, I never thought of that.
Also, to add to my orig. comment, I spent my career as a stock broker, and owned an investment Company, I am not crazy but this individual claims that I have been committed over and over when I have never been committed nor am I crazy. If you read her reports, it is clear she is unstable. And if you read the comments from my supporters, it is clear she is a liar. I just wanted to add that.
Does ROR do this for any particular reason, is this a game, or do they think they are generating some kind of traffic, or what the hell?
"Ed Magedson founded the Rip-off Report 11 years ago. He said he doesn't write the headlines or monitor the content, except for profanity and personal data. He said his staff only verifies the complainants' real names, which are kept confidential, and verifies that they have an actual email address."
A class action lawsuit should be filed against MAGEDSON for willful negligence. Negligence “can be generally defined as conduct that is culpable because it falls short of what a reasonable person would do to protect another individual from foreseeable risks of harm.” RIPOFFREPORT’s process of ascertaining the identity of a POSTER by checking that the POSTER uses a valid email address is simply and purely inadequate. Any reasonable person knows that a valid email address specially of a free email account can not ascertain the identity of the person posting in ripoffreport.
This inadequate process used by Magedson is what results to so many diffamatory postings in RIPOFFREPORT which in most cases are untrue and does not allow the harmed party to know the person that posted the diffamatory material and makes it almost impossible for the harmed party to obtain justice against the person that slandered him or her.
If the identities of these people that slander businesses or other people are adequately ascertained and also posted then the slandered party can defend itself and fight back appropriately, instead of being harmed like this by MAGEDSON's RIPOFFREPORT.
Thanks for the info. I did try two things.
I filed a report with the AZ Attorney General's office for damages due to exacerbation of my MS. They will not allow me to post any rebuttals to the defamatory reports, nor will they post consumer comments. There are three reports on the site against me. The poster created two persona's. The internal staff have the one report that they allowed rebuttals and a few but not all consumer comments to post to, to pull up when you search for two of the women that are named in the rebuttal as possible ppl who may have posted the reports. But not the third. What I think that they did was attach the post to the person who, for whatever reason, did use her own information on her profile in one of her persona's, realize they should not have then to create confusion, attached it to another. And for what it is worth, she is the person imo that wrote the horrible things.
I am fairly sure who did the reports as her spouse told me that "we put the email address in and it said it would send the password" so when he said that, I knew that she had created an acct. It will not recognize you at all if you do not have an account with the email addy you put in there to retrieve a lost password. It says "no account associated with that email address" or something to that affect. She got to the email and deleted the response and told him it never came. He knows it was her.
All the activity caused my report to hit page one on a Google search of my name. I appealed it to Google and it is gone.
Secondly, I filed a report for the hell of it against Ed and of course it is not showing. It is showing that it is there under "my reports" but you will never see it.
The AZ Attorney General's office took the stance that it is a personal issue and directed me to the yellow pages. I suppose since I did not make a purchase as a loss, I see their point. My damages are that they caused me damages of a medical nature, doctors bills, etc., and great mental anguish. And, truthfully, I am still not sleeping and even while typing this, I am crying. This has affected me horribly.
This man, this man who is feeding off of the pain of individuals, or the malcontent of others, or the revenge of disturbed people is a horrible human being. He is destroying businesses, carrers, people's names, etc. I am taken to the brink with this. At the time that I posted my reports regarding my spouses adultery, I was not thinking clearly. I was in a whirlpool of pain, grief and disbelief. These women were my friends of many years, and this was my husband of 37. My regret for ever finding the site has no end. I have a 16 year old grandson who, if he were to EVER find the reports, would be affected more than I can say, and it is only myself that I have to blame. He has never had a father in his life and his grandfather is that figure to him, and this father thing is big for him right now.
So, I carry the guilt of the reports, the anxiety of the reports, the pain of what was said about me and not being able to rebut it, as do my children, who all want to write consumer comments and cannot.
The site is a scourge and I do not know how I found it. My life feels destroyed at this minute in time, this little space in the universe, there is just too much crammed in here.
Who I am is a person who would not harm anyone usually. I guess that is why being betrayed so badly has hit me so hard. How in the hell did I find that God Awful Site?
It's simple. Out of the 300,000+ complaints, we find companies that are the victims and are currently running Google Adwords campaigns. We organize a protest in the form of pausing our Google Adwords campaigns. If we on average pay Google $100/day, and we get 10,000 companies to join in, that will cost Google $1 million plus a day in lost ad revenue. They'll be more likely to listen then! Feel free to contact me at egekhter [at] gmail .
Ripoff reports scans their postings
I've tried to post three timees and I got an email from them rejecting my postings (I tried to post a complaint about ROR itself, then I tried to post a complaint about the person who posted false information about me, and finally I tried to post a positive note).
Thus it is clear that they monitor what goes on their site. Thus I have a question:
So how is it that postings that are clearly inappropirate make it on? Their site clearly states it is for US only... yet they have Canadian provinces in the State pulldown menu? They post complaints from outside of US?
Why do postings with personal info details get on (as I see from the complaints on this site)?
Can this not be used against ROR in a court of law?
Why don't the victims unite and pursue a class action against ROR?
Most people complain that ROR keeps sticking to the top of the Google results. HOWEVER….. if a ROR is posted about a company that spends huge amounts of money on Google advertising, somehow their ROR ends up on page 6. In an experiment, company A spends no money on Google. A ROR is #3 in Google results, while a positive comment on an advertising page is listed as #4. For company B (that spends 50K per month on Google), ROR is far back on the page 6, while a positive comment on an advertising page (like for company A) is 4 pages ahead. THUS Why is it that the ROR vs positive ad page order is reversed when in both cases identical sites (with presumed identical google trust rankings) have a different order?????
VERY interesting.
I can no longer advertise with AdWords (they deleted my kws & not b/c I was doing anything wrong), & now when you search my company name with USA, the ROR is #1. Even without the USA after the company name the ROR is like 3rd or 5th down.
Are there no lawyers out there willing to do this?
To help contribute, I'm willing to pay my legal guy to find us a lawyer, but ONLY if we have enough participants who are willing.
It seems a lot of people on here are complaining, but aren't serious about this.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they are just too busy, but we have to start somewhere.
Thanks
Michelle
I would contribute to a class action. Who else is on board. How about an attorney who wants to step up and take on these guys, make a lot of money and a name for themselves.
Martin, you're absolutely correct.
Check out Blue Nile's ROR...WAYYYY back in the rankings. Of course, Blue Nile is one of the few companies Google uses to do all their testing on new Adwords options because they spend a metric ton of money on Adwords. In fact, Google allowed them to test one new Adwords display option that offered a dropdown of their products relevant to the search during the holiday season (2008). In case you didn't know, most jewelers do 40% of their annual business in November and December.
Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but anyone who thinks Google isn't manipulating the rankings for their own special interests is living in fantasy world. In reality, the fact that ROR seems to be used to promote some businesses by lack of it's presence while damaging others plus Google's allowed violation of their own terms of service by ROR leads me to question whether ROR and Google aren't working toward the same interests (in "cahoots", as the old timers say).
I'm all for consumers airing their grievences, and I know it's often justified. What confuses me, though, is why Google is making it so terribly easy for so many businesses that don't deserve a ROR listing to be irreparably damaged when other SE's won't give ROR the time of day. Google needs to understand that because of the PR leverage allowed Rip Off Report, ANY listing can damage businesses:
A) whether the complaint is merited or unmerited, which are two widely disparaging scenarios for which ROR will damage the company either way, and
B) whether the complaint represents 1 out of 10 business transactions or 1 out of 1 million business transactions for a company. These are also two widely disparaging scenarios, the latter of which would be a great customer service record for any company, but again, ROR will damage the company either way.
Google is not without responsibility for Rip Off Report in the same way that YSM and MSN are being responsible by downplaying its ability to harm innocent businesses. I'm not saying all businesses are in the right by any means, just that passing judgement on an entire company is a lot like passing judgement on a defendant in a criminal proceeding...I'd rather let 100 guilty go free than wrongfully convict 1. An ROR in the search results will cause most people to instantly pass a bad judgement toward a company by the mere fact that it's there - and that fact is the key to putting a stop to this crap (see my post below).
Not to go "Sally Struthers" in my commentary, but good and decent people's livelihoods are being adversely affected by ROR, and that's simply not right. Whether a sole proprietor, small business owner or employee of a larger company laid off because of reduced sales due to unjustified ROR's, those who are truly undeserving of negative press have been wronged - and no matter how many bad deals ROR has saved for consumers, it doesn't make it right. We have protections in place for consumers, but who's stepping up to the plate to protect the people who pay their salaries?
Do you think that it is time to take our concerns to the higher ups? The board of directos? They HATE hearing this mess, do not want to mess with it, and would not like any of it. Also, the guys who started Google, were just regular guys,how would they feel? Can you imagine someone getting a kick back lower down at google, in cahoots with someone else, to run this crap? There may be so much more here than meets the eye, guys. Something could be busted wide open. Once in the know, also, head may roll. This could become a huge scandal.
How do we know the founders of Google don't know what it going on? We don't.
Can you try & find the list of Google's board of directors & their phone numbers or e-mail addresses?
Michelle
Please Please Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Add me to any Class action Lawsuit, against Complaintsboard.com
I cannot believe That with all these businesses Literally being totally Ruined by unfounded posts ,and most of the time by a COMPETITOR, that Google would allow these entities to continue, They are FLOURISHING on the Backs of Hard working American Businesses. I mean without Google they are out of business. As we all know how hard it is to be in Business today, we certainly can't afford to even loose 1 customer due to false information. What don't they understand that by perpertrating such Business practices that they are actually stunting there own growth. Why has this not been reported to the Attorney General.
I say GO after the BIG KAHONNA, with the Biggest POCKET. who without them These RIP OFF ARTISTS could not exist..
It's a shame I'm almost afraid to post this in fear of retribution. How crazy is that. I thought I was only to fear 3 things in life. GOD,Death and Taxes, but now I'm fearing complaintsboard, and google. It's trully been a tough year, and this is so tiring, for my Family. We have worked so hard to build our Business Always with Honesty and Integrity, as our benchmark. It's funny that complaintsboards tag line is " We the People for the People" WOW
You aren't the only one who fears Google. I started to hear stories about a year ago & was shocked that they have that much power they will just pull a website so it no longer shows up in SEO even.
I did lose all faith in them after that, & I used to love them before.
That goes beyond manopolization, that's being control freaks.
We as human beings should have the right to complain about things we don't like & not fear the consequences.
Michelle
As a new observer to the RippOffReports debate, I would appreciate some help regarding finding a truly reputable resource for reporting bad lawyers. Is there any help "out there" for those who don't know the next step in dealing with having been ripped off by a real estate attorney in VA.
Sure, my attorney is comfortable and taking time to address the issues; and he isn't the one really facing my Applachain hillbilly neighbors. This is as unbelievable as any of the other ripoff stories; and yes you may see me as a participating drama queen. I prefer expediancy,thank you.
I will simply say I am packing as I write that my neighbors have done everything uncivil (short of actually beating me as they offered) before launching the appropriate actions to get me to move.
What should I do other than move in with friends; and turn what was a home for me to mind my own (massage therapy) business into a pig farm. The magic carpet has been ripped out from under my feet; and that I am still standing is an amazing testimony to "A Course In Miracles". Where do I report on line; so that it may save others from a simliar apparently useless struggle.
You are important,
Amazedatthemaze
I am not sure this is the correct place to try to find what you are looking for . I would think that the bar association in your state or jurisdiciton would be one place to look. You are not saying if your civil rights are being violated and if so, the ACLU is another source. But, at this site, we are struggling against a tyrant who started a site that is destroying businesses, lives and careers.
Are we not fighting the same issues for the right place to report one's deepest wounds? Yes, I have lost that.. the money, the business, the home, the investment, and lots of dignity.
I am one of those likely to feel so small as to want to report to the"reporter"; as it appears I might actually have no other voice that can be heard. It is people like me that may be lured to a site like ROR out of frustrated abandonment.
In my diligence to be a good person, I do the research; and read these blogs to make sure ROR is not a scam too. Maybe the simple fact is that I need help understanding where a better place might be.
In order to avoid ROR; many seek a good alternative site to go with reports. That's what people who have been ripped off feel.
From the bottom of the totem pole,
amazedatthemaze
Fighting lawyers is hard work & very scary.
Many years ago when I had a lot more money, I had numerous lawyers steal from me & of course lie about it.
No matter what I did, they were believed over me & I never got my money back & only spent more to fight.
Unfortunately humans' society is made up of laws to keep us sheep (not me of course LOL) inline.
So if humans feel they have to have laws b/c they aren't smart enough to be civil without them, then there will ALWAYS be lawyers & corruption.
To fight a lawyer with another lawyer is like spending money after money just to get the original money back.
Over here (not sure what you have over there), the Law Society of Upper Canada is run by lawyers, so the lawyers police the lawyers & guess who ends up winning in the end.
It's all very one sided, but hey, this is the society humans have built for themselves.
If I were you I'd just move & find an area where you know you won't have the same issues.
Holistic services & hillbillys don't sound like they would match to me.
Alternatively, maybe try & find a legal clinic & see what they say.
I wish you all the best
Michelle
Thank you for the graciousness of your responses. There is a great calm place inside each of us; and its given some room to breath when people stay focused and respond with their hearts.
Thank you all,
amazed at you
Please understand, you are welcome to post, I hope that you did not think that I was saying to not post here. Far from it. I am trying to help you get to the place that you can get help.
If you are in the states, you would turn to the bar association to make a report regarding your attorney and any wrong doing and they would investigate. I would make noise with any legislative people as well. Also, a lot of local news people have portions of their broadcasts that they dedicate to subjects like this, where local citizens feel that they have been taken advantage of by a local company, and that company will be put on the news. I still stand by the BBB, no company likes to have a negative comment in there if they are legit. And, again, if you are talking civil rights, that is a horse of a different color, lol.
There are places to turn that can send you in the right direction if you have any recourse, and one of these would surely help.
ROR allows ppl a place to vent, but also lie and defame and they never remove the lie or defamation. They do not check the source, the person who posted the report, etc. They have done a lot of damage to a lot of people personally, to a lot of people's careers and to a lot of businesses who have had even their competitors put reports on their site that are not true.
Good luck. We need attorneys so badly and it hurts when one takes advantage of someone or does a piss poor job. I have had it happen to me as well.
What you write does help me more than you know. I have thought about the way to report the facts without harming another; to alert people that there might be some poor business happening is actually what might keep some from doing bad business.
The very idea that there might be a good watchdog out there keeps some people scurrying. If we all had access to that new voice anaylsis hightech that can alert us to, less people would risk lying. If they thought there was a great site like ROR claims to be; they might think again about what they do and it's effects.
I realize this experience of feeling the effects in my body has allowed me the chance to see a different way of seeing things. Already I have changed my confidence level by listening to good advice from you, others, and my beloved Course in Miracles.
Thanks again,
amazed
First of the week, I am going to contact some of the places and ppl that have been brought to my attention here, and some key newspapers across the country, online soucrced papers and off, and start some type of campaign to try and do something. I am going to create an email so that anyone who wants to help can do so, and an iPetition so that names can start coming in to support the issue, with stories. These ppl can remain anonymous and tell their story. The stories must be told. We have to get this to the right people. We need to know how people have been harmed, how they have been contacted or if so by ROR or it's affiliates, what was offered, to change any verbage, to remove a report for money, etc. It has to stop and only with us banded together will that happen. Ed can just come and kill me. I don't care anymore. He is killing my life slowly as it is, and I can stop washing my hair and drive an old car too.
So. soon as I get it together first of the week, I will post. If you need to contact me before, let me know and I will create the email sooner.
Here's to all the hell we all have suffered for no reason at all. Never should have had to. Never.
I'm 100% on board and will support whatever is necessary to stop ROR. Class action is imeprative. I posted this article on ROR today, we'll see if it appears. Many of my court documents and press reports have been omitted, while Jane Doe and Lupe Alsidez continue to write, and repost to keep TNT at the top of search engines. I've copied Sullivan & Ward on this artricle, and the Oprah show.
First of all, I only wrote the truth about how you tried to cheat me and my wife, technically I was cheated because I NEVER got paid for the work I did for your so called reputable company, and I HAD stopped writing about your sorry ass, I have better things to do with my time than to waste them on YOU, but you insist on still writing things about me on the internet, well, BITCH, you woke the sleeping giant, because now I AM going to continue writing about you and letting the whole world know what an evil crook you are, and I personally will make sure that you are put out of business and stop cheating and lying to people.
actually, this is the best way, so you can read the intro
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RipOffReportVictimsUnited/index.html
Question...
I want to know if we are also going to take on Google b/c of how it seems Google is allowing this site to flourish especially with sites that don't use their AdWords.
I know it's a huge undertaking, but I would be interested to hear (find out, by building a survey) how many site owners have had issues with Google, & I don't mean just w/ ROR, but in general.
Once a survey is up & running, I can post it around on MBs.
I personally use Surbey Gizmo & they do have a free account - https://www.surveygizmo.com/?ap=24669
If you need the extra features I can create a survey using my account.
Let me know.
Thanks
Michelle
Well, look what I found. Get over there...
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RipOffReportVictimsUnited/
Please.
I filled that out, & I just lost another sale that cost me money (I had to refund the person so it cost me around $40 both times in merchant account fees) b/c they found the ROR about my company & I wasn't about to argue with them about it.
Michelle
I am so sorry. I hope that we get somewhere. I don't know any other way to try to get everyone to one place. fingers crossed.
This site has been a tremendous source of information. My business is 100% Internet driven, titled TNT MGMT. I have successfully built a solid business reputation and have worked tirelessly to achieve the highest standards of ethics for 15 years without 1 single BBB report until ROR.
My company name, business reputation, personal name, home address, staff and family members have been drug through the depths of hell for 2 years.
Two law firms, Bob Holliday at Sullivan and Ward located in Des Moines Iowa and Mark Azman at Johnson & Condon located in Minneapolis MN have been instrumental in stopping (1) out of (5) of the anonymous attackers as of November 2008. It took 1 year of extensive research, a team of legal experts, hundreds of thousands of hours collecting data and capturing all communications and cooperation from media outlets such as Charter Communications, Comcast and above all, money.
Our company stalker penned under "Jane Doe" wrote extensively on ROR, Craig's List, Complaints Board, Event Speak, Job Vent and The Des Moines Register Blogs beginning in 2007. She attracted a mob of people rallying her efforts against me, Tina Norris and My business TNT MGMT. This 20 year old student from Farmington MN reportedly enjoys antagonizing companies. I was not the first. She made a conscious decision to cyber-bully me, and stalk my company while interfering DAILY with client efforts. Her goal was to to shut me down by utilizing ROR, for fun.
Both firms representing TNT MGMT were unable to reach anyone at ROR or Complaints Board. Craig's List Legal Department did respond, however did not cooperate with providing assistance in blocking her IP address or monitoring her libelous comments as we requested. The owner of Event Speak, James Trivlis took down 80% of the threads, blocked her IP address, and monitored her activity. Not being able to communicate with ROR or Complaints Board my counselors advised filing suit against the student, and her mother.
Both firms subpoenaed Event Speak, Comcast, and Charter who in turn provided her IP address. It was not an exact match. She was tapping into her neighbor's wireless routers, which then categorized her into Internet theft and criminal charges. Our next step was to involve the FBI, and a computer forensic expert from Rockwell Collins. She made one mistake in May of 2008 by posting 12 defamatory comments about TNT MGMT on Craig's List from her mother's computer. Charter provided the IP address and this time it matched.
Sullivan & Ward immediately filed an injunction ordering "Jane Doe" to provide her identity. On July 23, 2008, Polk County Court Judge Overum overturned Jane Doe's request to remain anonymous, along with her "motion to quash" and ordered that her identity be revealed. We learned her name, address and that was enought to file a civil suit in MN.
The end result culminated in the MN courts, November of 2008 with a permanent restraining order against the Farmington MN student, and a settlement. Suffice to say the monetary damages, anxiety, panic attacks, fear, relationship adversities, embarrassment, and humiliation far exceeded the settlement. We now have 4 more "John Doe's," "Jane Doe's," or "Anonymous in Des Moines" to stop, trained by Farmington Student that are writing on ROR and I am completely out of money.
How do we change the laws to protect business owners? Is there a way to lobby legislature to prevent sites from harboring individuals under anonymous profiles, or from creating multiple profiles who's sole motive is to create harm against people such as myself and staff?
I would be willing to help organize a class actiion suit against the individuals and ROR, Complaints Board, and Craig's List. Tina Norris
Tina I feel for you.
I hope you are feeling better.
Michelle
I am trying to get a list of ppl together with the petition so that we can perhaps get to someone in the legislature or an attorney who would take on a class action. Something has to be done. But, we have to find each other. We are spread out over hell and back. This is the only way I know to start it. There is so much warranted paranoia.
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RipOffReportVictimsUnited/signatures-1.html
I think the major thing to do is combine efforts. There are many individual cases of people/businesses getting screwed. But, nothing will be done until we combine forces or one person/business is strong enough to break thru.
I had an untrue posting on ripoffreport.com a few weeks ago. I have spent countless hours reading, researching and thinking about how the law or Google would do the right thing and help me. But from what I can see, there is no cost effective help once someone lies about you on ripoffreports. So can anyone tell me, if you have been unfairly harmed by ripoffreport, what can you do?
I read in another blog that maybe everyone that is harmed by ripoff should post an anonymous posting about the executives at Google and/or the Attorney General of Arizona. Maybe if it happens to them often enough they will start to do something about it.
They said you can’t claim that Eric Schmid - CEO, Sergey Brin - President, Larry Page - President, Nikesh Arora - President, Laszlo Bock - VP or Shona Brown – VP did anything illegal, but if you read anything questionable about them or if someone tells you something questionable about them, post it on ripoff. Let’s see if they like it coming up on the first page of Google every time their friends or family searches for their name.
These people have a lot of power, but for some reason they will not do the right thing. Perhaps if it happens to them they will take some corrective action for all of us.
Interesting idea, what do you think?
Hi Bob
It won't work. What you will find will happen is that you will never see it post. You can post things about any of the main players like Ed or David and it never shows up. If you look at your account on ROR after you make such a post, or try to, it will show in your account that you made the post, but if you run a search of the persons name, it will not come up in the search. They invalidate it. So, it will not work.
As for saying that they did something illegal, according to how they use CDA law, it should not matter. They are not giving any information out, they are not removing a post or providing the names of the posting entity even if you have a court order. My good friend had a court order, a restraining order against a person who had created tons of cyber posts that were lies and was ordered to stop and the person making the posts still tried to post. When my friend presented the court papers to every other site on the web, they removed the posts and banned the person from participating except ROR. End of the story is that the cyber stalker, who is not mentally well, caused my friend to lose her home and company. The ends to which the person used ROR are sickening.
So, it does not matter what is posted as best I can tell. And, if you post about someone they do not want a post on there about, you will never see it come up in a search.
Can we learn anything from this https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/ripoffreport.com was someone paid too [ Sites Linking In ] post messages in all linking sites? Upstream Downstream google traffic is interesting.
I am into online reputation management, and my company does have clients who are listed on ripoffreport without any real reason/sense, only to squeeze money out of them. Sometimes the pure fact that other people find them listed there cancelles their deals, businesses. It's terrible and devastating the same time for respected business men.
I find ridiculous that the ripoffreport onsite SEO optimizations don't bring up an alarm at Google. Those pages really have it all: keyword stuffing, spamming, paid backlinks, etc.
We had sites delisted from Google for much-much less.
I am by no means a SEO expert (very far from it) but it appears that Google do know about Ripoff Report but thus far refuse to do anything about it. However, it seems that it has been lower in the SERPs lately so hopefully it is on its way out.
Google actually removed my blog from the SERPs as soon as they discovered it. No, lol...this is not paranoia. I signed up with Google AdSense just to see what would happen and they removed my site from the SERPs for my name.
Interestingly, my site has been picked up by a lot of other sites and these entries rank in the SERPs. Plus of course the media and my Google blogger profile (which leads to the blog) is ranked.
And of course Google put AU ads on the defamatory webpages on ror. I have documented all the ads in screenshots.
Something really strange happened with my blog. I started it in early October 2011. Soon after I loaded a lot of the information the blog was showing on the first page of Google for my name SERPS. Then the stats showed Google visiting at a rate that was creepy. The blog suddenly disappeared from the SERPS. I was 100% sure that it was censored by Google because it was still showing at or near the top of the SERPS on Bing and Yahoo (where it has remained). The blog did not return to the SERS on Google.
A couple of days ago I 'had a go' at that Cutts guy for supporting ripoff report on a blog (and used my real name). I said he did not have a soul. I meant it!!! I also said that Google had censored the blog because it was critical of the company for supporting ror and because I was suing them over that grubby little website.
I know my blog comment was read due to the timing of the comments. Suddenly my blog started ranking at or near the top of page 1 of the SERPs on Google. I have been checking and documenting my name and result rankings regularly because we need the information for the trial. It could not be found two days ago and this morning I checked again and it is still on page 1.
It is not like Cutts did me any favours. Rather I think the fact that my blog was suddenly indexed in a search fpr my name after I complained on twitter/a seo blog was concerned with the fact that Google wantedto avoid the public embarrassment of censoring results because of a litigation.
Update on my case:
We had a victory today. Google have been ordered to file a defence. They applied for a strike out and we applied for them to file a defence. We only lost one minor point noted in their in their submission and that was we had to strike out 2 words - 'substantially similar'. .
Last week I wrote on another SEO blog (in which the Cutts guy was engaged in a debate about human raters) that Google had censored me by removing my blog from the SERPS for my name. It appears that after I applied for AdSense (as an experiment) my blog was removed from the Google index or ranked so far down that it did not show up in a search for my name. At that time (after October 28th 2011) my blog was not indexed in a Google or Google AU search for my name. However, it was at. or near the top of a search for my name on Yahoo and Bing. My blog data clearly shows that my removal/demotion from the Google index occurred AFTER I applied for a Google AdSense account.
This proves that Google does what Google wants with respect to the rank and content of its search results. The evidence from Foundem had proven that they remove/demote websites at will. but it actually happened to me.
I just wanted the defamatory links removed so I could work and get on with my life. why is this so difficult? The answer is because Google does what Google wishes and anyone who challenges them are crushed by their dominant financial power.
I have a smart and experienced legal team who are not in it for the money. They are 'real' lawyers. They have previously taken a case against a newspaper to our High Court and won. The plaintiff, like me, had lost his job due to the defamation. They have restored my faith in humanity just a little bit. This case took 7 long years to reach a conclusion that set law in AU (and was favourable to the plaintiff).
But, the world has changed since 1998 and I do not know if I will survive this. I WILL try to hang in there but it appears that Google are trying to break me before we get to trial. Maybe they will succeed. My career was worth EVERYTHING to me and the thought that such a powerfull company would want to take it away rather than spend a couple minutes fixing the problem is incomprehensible.
This judgement from the Florida Supreme court says it all about that grubby little website:
https://www.citizen.org/documents/Giordano-v-Romeo-Dismissal-order.pdf
The paragraph is (p. 4).
The business practices of Xcentric, as presented by the evidence before this Court, are appalling. Xcentric appears to pride itself on having created a forum for defamation. No checks are in place to ensure that only reliable information is publicized. Xcentric retains no general counsel to determine whether its users are availing themselves of its services for the purpose of tortious or illegal conduct. Even when, as here, a user regrets what she has posted and takes every effort to retract it, Xcentric refuses to allow it. Moreover, Xcentric insists in its brief that its policy is never to remove a post. It will not entertain any scenario in which, despite the clear damage that a defamatory or illegal post would continue to cause so long as it remains on the website, Xcentric would remove an offending post
Hi Aussie,
What Case # and county was that case from or how can people look it up? I think your post got cutoff with the whole judgement. But do you happen to know what actually happened then in that case and what it means for others in the USA or in specific states like Florida? Sounds interesting... thanks. And great work on your case in Australia!
I just posted a reply and am not sure it was posted. I will try again:
Here is the link to the case:
https://www.3dca.flcourts.org/Opinions/3D11-0707.pdf
In my case, the date has passed for Google to lodge an appeal to the December court orders for them to submit a defence. the court has ordered that they have file a defence by February 29th 2012.
There is no truth to the defamatory allegations (and hence, no evidence) so it is going to be interesting to see what type of defence they argue.
BTW, I hope the above judgements are causing Ripoff Report some anxious moments.
repeated post removed
"SOLUTION TO ROR: REMOVE PERSONAL REPORTS FROM A SITE 'FOR CONSUMERS' OK?"
I have been very quiet, and ill. I have lived with hope and tried to ignore ROR and live my life. Most of the time it works. The fact that my reports were initially put there by myself, then I begged them to take them down, that they are NOT consumer related, but rather personal and in fact, very, very personal, has caused my life to be upside down. The fact that I was not stable but rather in a state of shock and pain when I posted them, such as I can never describe, and would never in ten million years have been involved with this type of site or thing but that it was due to irrational thinking, sleep deprivation, a sense of injustice and I thought I could take it down, has destroyed me in so many ways.
I pray for all of you that something changes. I hope that someone somewhere will open their eyes and say, "Hey, I can do this, have this site, even bulldoze ppl for money, and keep it real, but not screw innocent ppl". Because, that is what a discerning, ethical person would do. That is what some other site owners do and it does not affect their CDA status.
The reports put on there about me would not have gone on there if I could have gotten the others down that I put on there when I begged. Which was pretty much right after I put them on there. The reports I put on there were horrible, but true. I was not worried about being sued. I put my name all over them in rebuttals, creating another issue, as did my defenders. The ones put on there about me are lies, defamatory and revenge, and juvenile, but none of this was done by sharp, well thought out minds. Personal reports are thus. And, as long as mine is on there with my frantic scribbling's, some lunatic or person in a similar situation finds it, and four years later, has something to say, never really reading the report, opening it all back up.
So, I watch your posts, and it makes me feel emotional and upset because as one very smart man asked me, if we change the law, what would the new law be? And, I did not have an answer. How would we sheriff it, how would it look? That is a really good question for all. As long as ROR is sued, and in court, the law is ignored and that law is the things that allows it and sites like it to stay online.
If you do some research, when all this came to bear, there were dissenters in the "writing" of this law who saw this coming. They are mostly dead, but their legacy, their words are not. This is the great west, the un pioneered frontier. Freedom of speech should not extend to slander and destruction of lives. One of the ppl who I wrote of lost their job, so she says and she is not an honest person, she is a liar, but nonetheless, she says so. The report is the truth, very short and a fact. What made it worse were the rebuttals. Rebuttals are the devils playground.
ROR may tell you that rebuttals are your recourse to take up your cause but my experience has been all that they do are to make you more searchable, as ppl put names in the rebuttals. They keep you higher in the hit list too. So, do not post them. They have become the bane of my existence.
Good luck guys. Since I posted those shitty things in May of 2008, I have been dx with ischemic colitis, brain tumor and now I have a fatal heart rhythm due to an electrical issue to a beautiful heart, no plumbing issues. I have a device implanted that has a defibrillator on it that will be like a mule kicks me in the chest when it goes off. How is that for stress? And, I have given up hope. I have none. I hope that you prevail in New Z, if nothing else, maybe it will start some type of dialog that will change things. I just do not know. I do not hate anyone, not even the women. I just want peace.
I have an issue with ROR in that I filed a report, a true one and the person against whom it was file then filed three very nasty lies, serious allegations against me. All my family and friends tried to post comments and so forth, and only one of the reports would take any comments or my rebuttal. The other two will not take a rebuttal from me, nor any consumer comments. Plus, at least ten other comments were given that did not show up any where at all.
To add to all that, they took the only report that did allow my rebuttal and some consumer comments and moved it under the persons name. To be more clear, there were three reports from myself, three women had affairs with my spouse. He is on there as well. They put the one report under two of the women's name so that when you search their names, the report about me comes up as well.
What in the hell are they doing? They will not allow a rebuttal on the other two from me, so I cannot repair my reputation as they promise. I asked last year soon after posting the reports to remove them, we were not a corporation, I was just a woman in the middle of a horrible amount of pain. These women were supposed to be my friends.
When it comes to personal issues, it should be handled differently. Would you not have a lawsuit with them as they are allowing these reports to be there with horrible defamations against my character but will not post my rebuttals or allow me to have a say? The new reports, the three one of these women posted, are under mental health and suspicious activity and one says it is a rant, not a ROR. So, how is that ok?
Is ROR not responsible to me to allow me to file a rebuttal if they allow her to file a revenge report with horrible lies? Now I have to pay a fortune for an attorney to get this fixed?
I filed mine while in a great deal of pain an grief. I have a lot of regret. But this person who filed theirs is just evil with no remorse.
Oh, and I am in remission from breast cancer and I have MS. This entire ordeal, the ignoring me, refusing to file my rebuttals, have exacerbated my MS tremendously. So, I am suffering medically, and have damages from their negligence.
I had three postings rejected. I attempted to clear my name through three postings and received an email from them saying that they were inappropriate postings and should be submitted as rebuttals instead. I don't want to do a rebuttal because it only freshens up the complaint page and goes to the bottom where nobody sees it. I want to do it my way and I was prevented. THEY interfered in my attempt to clear my name. Is that not something a lawyer can exploit? Any lawyer reading this who thinks they can take a crack at this, don't hesitate to contact me.
Why would there be a class action suit? Magedson is protected by the CDA until it is proven that he wrote your information or edited it. He certainly has taken some literary license by having his acquaintances post for him but not on every post.
If you can show that you have been damaged directly as a result of Magedson posting or editing then take it to the Arizona Attorney General Office or file suit. You can get a complaint form right on line.
Should you need further help then hire a professional to do a background check on you and or your company. You can post the results and/or send them to whomever you choose. Hire a professional to do what Magedson has been doing, investigate the subject of the post.
If you have negative issues out there it will come out…if not it too will come out. It could read something like:
XXXXX Detectives has been hired to conduct a background investigation on Rip Off Report and XXXXXX (client). There is significant public record in state and Federal court that names Rip Off Report and its manager Ed Magedson as defendant. Those claims range from Extortion to Trademark infringement. It is important to understand that our legal system provides innocence until proven otherwise even for the subjects of this investigation. We are happy to report that no negative information has been found in state of Federal courts of either a civil or criminal nature for the (client).
There can be no doubt that there are malicious individuals IE competitors, ex-wives, neighbors etc that seek to harm the reputation of others for their own gain by posting items of a dubious nature in websites that are designed to appear that they are consumer oriented. One should take great care in making judgments based upon the writings in these websites and the agendas intended.
Pay $1,000.00 to have a background check on your self and undo what has been done. Yes it is insult to injury…but the truth needs to be told preferably by an unbiased professional.
Now who could complain about the truth being told? The investigation is either good or bad, you can't pay to have it doctored.
Magedson does not investigate the source of the report, nor does he investigate the subject of the post. In certain cases he has knowledge of the fraudulent posting and they remained on the site. The Arizona State Attorney General does nothing in these matters and claims it is does not fall under their jurisdiction. They refer to the Federal Trade Commission. As for filing suit, I have spoken to someone who spent $300,000 and three years pursuing ED. Most small businesses cannot afford such a case. He is also judgement proof, so what is the upside of a suit?
What do you mean, hire a detective, for what, to place it in the rebuttal? The rebuttals are useless, they are hidden well beneath the complaint after advertisements.
A fraudulent posting is tantamount to slander, who is responsible is the issue that is in question. If Ed truly investigated the postings, then he would have no issue in turning over the name or IP address of the source when that posting was obviously fraudulent.
I wonder what detectives investigated Ed, it seems you are using this forum to bolster the reputation of Ed Magedson and ROR by conviently finding a way to include the findings of detectives that he hired.
Sara,
Thank you for a brilliant article. I am a priciple of a business in Los Angeles whose reputation is being smeared by these scam artists. We are a consulting firm in the financial services industry that has been in business for 26 years. Our clients include professional athletes, political figures and prominate business people yet, about four years ago the fine folks at ROR decided that consumers needed to be "warned" about my company. They even posted complaints from people who admit in their comments they ARE NOT clients and have never paid us a dime.
Since this all began they have cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars in new business. Like countless other business owners, I consider these losses to be a badge of courage because I refuse to be extorted and will not pay them $50,000 to "clear" my name. Having said that, my employees are also getting fed up with having to constantly explain why we are on ROR. As such, I would love to fight back against them so perhaps you could entertain a couple of questions.
1. Do you know of any class actions pending against ROR? If so, I would definately consider joining one.
2. Since Google appears to be aware of ROR's activities and does nothing about it, are they potentially liable? Has anyone sued Google as part of their complaint against ROR?
3. ROR is good at getting in front of local news cameras and getting the newspeople to call them "consumer advocates". I just saw a report on them on L.A.s local FOX station. Do you know of any investigative reports by "John Stossel type" journalists who have reported on the ROR scam artists? Everytime I see one of these reports in the future I am going to make a formal complaint to the station/newspaper and reference your posting. I would suggest others who have been harmed by ROR do the same as we cannot allow them to build any credibility.
Thanks for taking the time to read through this. I would greatly appreciate any guidance on this matter. My blood is starting to boil as I think about these crooks so I need to end here.
ROR is quite possibly the worst website ever created and is definitely "evil".
My prediction is that it will eventually be taken down and eliminated. It is only a matter of time. Google should do as MSN and Yahoo have done and eliminate it from the SERPS. That is the actual way I believe people can be happy in the short term.
I would say enough people have been negatively affected that people should start to actually protest at Google HQ in Mountain View. Also, all advertisers that appear (if any) should be contacted and protested.
I would argue that enough money can be put together by all the people and companies that have been negatively affected by ROR that it can be taken down and eliminated. People just need to unify.
Perhaps a complaint website should be started that just lists complaints about ROR - so people can come together, pool resources, contact their legislators together and apply serious pressure.
How is it possible that Larry and Sergey (spelling) have had their names changed on their ROR? What did the Google attorneys "work out" with ROR? Their negative reports are changed, but others are not?
I have reports about me "molesting turkeys" and all kinds of idiotic things on ROR. Having wild parties with zebras in the street and in an office. You name it.. its there. Some morons just decided to post all kinds of things. Claiming the most ridiculous, but harmful as well, things you can imagine. This is mixed in with serious allegations that are completely fabricated. Must be an employee of one of our companies that was upset when laid off - who knows.
Bottom line is that trash appears #1 and #2 in Google for my name and one of our companies and it is unacceptable. It actually makes me very angry.
ROR needs to be eliminated and we need to take action.
Here are a couple comments on comments I have:
"3. ROR is good at getting in front of local news cameras and getting the newspeople to call them "consumer advocates". I just saw a report on them on L.A.s local FOX station. Do you know of any investigative reports by "John Stossel type" journalists who have reported on the ROR scam artists? Everytime I see one of these reports in the future I am going to make a formal complaint to the station/newspaper and reference your posting. I would suggest others who have been harmed by ROR do the same as we cannot allow them to build any credibility."
I would say the thing to do is contact any state Senators, Attorney, or Representatives and other political figures that may be targeted by some ROR spam. Also, perhaps even consider radio personalities like Howard Stern who relentlessly trash things until they are gone. He has his own news dog called Steve Langford that blows the whistle on things.
Also, this is very important - if you could please address this:
"All the activity caused my report to hit page one on a Google search of my name. I appealed it to Google and it is gone."
Please please please tell us how exactly you successfully APPEALED to Google and got this removed?!?! This is amazing and needs to be discussed.
Thanks so much!
I agree ok120, I know that more recently I have been losing sales as well as potential team members too. Don't forget about those. People who work online tend to believe everything they read.
There already are blogs of people who have posted their experienced & frankly I don't know why no one cares about banding together.
The 2 (someone started a new one on me) ROR's on my company are like 3rd down on the list & #1 when you enter in my company name & USA.
I'm surprised no attorney has started a class action yet.
Thank you
Michelle
Well Michelle, I know one reason is because ROR attorneys threaten to sue every website that is formed. We are safe talking here because we are making comments and we are not associated with seomoz.
ROR argues that they are using the same... tactic... with ROR - they are not responsible for the comments.
However, where they are Evil is that they are perpetuating a perception of "evil" when it comes to innocent people. Innocent people have their lives ruined because any idiot can have ridiculous things rank #1 in Google. And then they extort people to try to get money for removing/editing/whatever they do to the reports.
ROR is an extortion scheme - bottom line. And that will be its downfall.
I'm not sure why Google is allowing an extortion scheme to take over its SERPS. Perhaps every one of us should extort ROR in the same way?
I know lets pool our resources in SEO to out-rank ROR and then everyone who has been hurt by ROR can leave comments - under "safe harbor" - and we will only remove them if huge sums of money are paid. This will be for "managing" ROR's reputation.
I think we should use this thread to unify and pool resources and take this website down. I'm not sure where to start, but I know this will happen.
It'd be quite interesting to really push Google to address why an extortion scheme is so high up in their SERPS? And why were their owners names changed on the RORs talking about Larry and Sergey.
Very strange.
I feel bad for Michelle and everyone else. But, nothing will happen until people pool together with enough might and money to actually dwarf ROR and even show the people making the laws how ROR is/will ruin their lives as well. And other businesses with money as well. Any single individual or company can be instantly ruined with ROR. Period. Politicians, attorneys, anyone.
The thing about ROR is that people need to know more about the fact that this type of thing exists. It needs to become a joke - because it IS a joke. Right now people see it and most think it is ALARMING and TRUE. That's the problem. Perhaps a publicist should be hired by a New Mexico LLC that is owned anonymously to spread the truth about ROR. And everyone can contribute to this fund.
The truth needs to be revealed. People need to understand that this website is harmful and a joke, and the RORs perhaps will not have affect.
This will also negatively affect Google and their shareholders. The shareholders should know about it, too. Google needs to be put under pressure and this is either with bad press or by hurting advertising dollars.
Is it possible Google is associated with an extortion scheme? Their ads are on the ROR home page. Are they involved? Are they in it together?
Targeting Google in my opinion is not the right thing to do. Suing Magedson for defamation is also not the right thing to do. A Class Action against Magedson for his willful negligence, I believe is what should happen. So, if we can all find a lawyer that would represent us in this case, then let's do it!
Like I said in my previous post, someone can pretend to be someone else and have a valid email account. And if this someone posts extremely defamatory personal information, let's say about Mr. Obama in RipoffReport, according to CDA, Magedson is not liable. But I suppose that if the identity of the poster is truly ascertained and posted in the slanderous posting, then there would not be such a proliferation of these slander and lies in ROR.
ROR is negligent in their method of ascertaining the identity of the posters in ROR. This, I believe, is Magedson's downfall.
BUT, Google is their bread and butter. Without Google, they are dead in the water. No one could find them without Google.
The majority of the ppl who end up there did so because they googled a person or business and found rip off.
Google needs to be pressured. They are getting paid, that is their interest, but if public outcry becomes more important or bigger than that pay day, they will stop their relationship, but we have to make noise. I am all for the noise. Lot's of it.
And, we can make noise and hope some attorney hears it and wants to get his name out there and will take this on. I, unfortunately, cannot afford a retainer to get one on board, and to get the class action, someone is going to have to believe in our cause and that is going to come after we make the noise. Calling, writing, news stations, shows, etc. It makes a huge difference.
I spoke with one attorney and his comment was, "well, in todays economy, none of us are wanting to do pro bono or class actions" and I told him that if I ever had a "bigun" I would not want to use him. You have to give back sometime big boy.
I hear you about suing old thick glasses but we have to bring this to the attention of everyone. Make noise. Then, take him on. However from what I hear, he does not have a pot to pee in.
I have another comment. We all know that they never, ever, ever remove reports, right? umm hmm.
Okay, who owns this company who supposedly "guarantees" they can get it removed for a mere $5000 or more? Has anyone given any thought to that?
I have had thoughts about what a sweet deal it would be to start another company that could offer that guarantee, or even the companies that "bury" your report beneath tons of other sites and web things, and collect money regarding a site you started that refused to ever remove all this stuff?
I am just saying, I am sure this never happens, right? But, does anyone have access to say, information that shows corporations and the relationships to and so on. You can sometimes dig deep and find some snuff. That would be the mother lode.
Well, it appears that I spoke too soon. They did take it down. It was gone....for like 5 or 6 days. I guess that Google read my appeal and decided to remove it manually. But, I guess, also, that they have a "crawler" or something similar that goes weekly or so and sifts through the sites they allow to use their search engines and there the damn thing is again today.
I look every day and today it was back. So, I thought, well, I can do the same effing thing every single week. Or, I can appeal to Google through the removal process. See, ROR allowed my street address to be put on all the three reports, along with my city and state. That, along with my name, puts me at risk. So, I am appealing to them through the process to remove me from the process. That means that they say to ROR, Hey,, she says.... and then we will see what ROR has to say. I asked them also to reconsider using ROR as they were destroying ppl's careers, businesses and lives.
I will help anyone get this together, will contact Howard Stern, will fly to NY will do whatever you guys want. I will do anything to get them shut down. I have spent all our money on my illnesses. But, I fly free, and have credit cards to pay for a hotel room. And, as a former executive, I can make a good case, I am comfortable with making any kind of public appearance or speech, albeit a bit rusty. But suffice it to say, I am upset as I have ever been.
And shame on you for molesting turkeys. That is so insane. I had to giggle on that one, but it goes to show that they are so damn disreputable. I can start a web petition to have them investigated or for people to sign and share their experiences to get to Stern or someone in legislature.
Give me some ideas. I have had some success doing some other of these things. The MS ppl wanted to get me involved with the NC chapter to lobby in Washington, and I was not ready to talk about it, but I am all over this. Just call it.
I am in great hate with Ed.
TO DAVID GINGRAS, ED MAGEDSON
I have a question for you. Some time back you had a movement toward the way that your report would read on the Google search engine. As I understood it, the search engine report tag line was supposed to NOT read to embarrass us as ppl, but rather to just allow individuals access to the information that there was a report on ROR.
What happened to this? I saw this new method maybe for a couple weeks then it was business as usual, smarmy, nasty "mary screwed a chicken" headers. Why.
I put something together today that I had not thought of previously.
Last year after a confrontation with one of the people that I had placed a report on ROR about regarding my spouses adultery, her spouse mentioned that he was going to hire a private detective.
I had someone following me, and someone sitting outside my house. It is the same time that she put the three reports about me on the site. Someone also was sitting outside my home on several occasions.
ROR allowed my street name, city and state on her reports. They put me at risk. I did file a police report. What can I do about that? Anything? I did not put it all together. When I filed a report, a cop came to our house, etc. it stopped. And, I called her husband and asked if he had anything to do with it, and he said no.
I knew NOTHING about the reports at that time. I did not find them until two weeks ago. even though she had already put them out there.
It really has nothing to do with your account. They infect other computers and use them has slaves to send out the spam. They changed the return address in the slave to the IP address of the Romanian. The only way to stop it is to have the slave shut down or go back in and change the return to address back to the original. Yahoo is notorious for being vulnerable to intrusions.
The FBI isn't going to help you. Some years I ago I had a lengthy dialouge with an agent here. He was very clear that they can't stop the spammers.
What’s up with ROR ?
I took a peak at PACER, and noticed the number of lawsuits against ROR is really drying up.
Not exactly sure what that means, but one could conclude that ROR must be reinventing themselves.
Being in Court has to be a real drain on resources and emotional energy.
Maybe Ed finally struck a balance with his new arbitration program?
When Adam Kunz proposed the idea to me last December, I have to admit I was intrigued, but I still remain skeptical.
The policy of not removing a report, unless ROR and Jaburg and Wilk profit, will always be a source of annoyance and aggravation.
I have been watching this situation since 2004, since I become involved.
The only thing that scares ROR and Jaburg and Wilk, is having their own clients prominently displayed on the internet in a bad light.
Ed would benefit by focusing energy on his arbitration idea and resist the temptation to become vindictive.
Those are my latest thoughts !!!
It is like I have said to David Gingras, who when you speak with him is not a bad person, just someone involved in a situation that is feeding his family and is not dealing with his ethics (if it bothers you, don't look at it) ROR could become a hero, so to speak, instead of the villian, in this situation, and make money. The lawyers, however, will lose money. If Ed could grasp this, he would be very smart.
If Ed revamped his site, got a really good attorney who was satisfied to take care of business, make a good living and get rid of the sharks, the lawyer could even be one of the existing ones, he would be rich and stop looking over his shoulder, after a spell. He has already destroyed so many ppl's lives that were innocent it will take a while for them to move on. And, just like there are unbalance ppl who have perpetrated this crime against the innocent ppl, there are ppl who are not well balanced now who lost everything. It is a shame. If he would have dealt with this long ago, he would be at peace and rich. And that is the truth. He had a concept, and a good plan. He just got caught up in ego, stubborness and probably bad counsel. I wonder what his lawyers homes and lifestyles look like? That is another thing he should think about, and/or the attorneys pasts. Why are they with him and not somewhere else?
I know that some of the attorneys who have taken these cases have seemed, uh, not so successful. They pontificate about their education but they have no offices, weird business cards, etc. Some of them. And, those attorneys milked the ppl who were burned by ROR until the water got hot for them. They hunted things in the fine details to bring up to sue for, but when in front of judges did not have answers, were embarrasing. There were some things I could answer. So, some of these players are not the top notch in their fields. I cannot speak to Ed's folks. I know nothing about them except that they have to be making a lot of money. While he cannot be making a lot, he has to move around a lot for safety, they do not move around to the best of my knowledge.
Ed's name was taken off of the paper work as legal owner a while back for what reason? Did the lawyers buy him out or what happened? He is listed as manager only now and is wishy washy as to how he is paid. Annually, or what? But on the site he still calls himself owner and founder. He needs to make those two things agree.
It is sad all the way around. IMO no one is winning, and a lot of innocent ppl have paid a high price. My shit is nothing. I feel like a spectator at a gladiator event watching ppl sent to a slaughter, and the attorneys are making the decisions. Ed is the figure head, the king, and I am not so sure if he makes these decisions or they let him think that he does.
The arbitration, well, the new headings on the reports as they came up on Google lasted about a day too. They were not supposed to say what was in your report, right? Did not work that way. And just because my name is mentioned in other reports, when those ppl are googled, my report comes up too. They did that on purpose. Because of these posts, I am sure. Childish, unprofessional and if the site ever gets really investigated, it wiill come to light and I will be in line with my hand out. That is unnessesary humiliation and should not happen. The reports are not about me. It is part of the rebuttal sytem. So much for that James. You rebut, you get punished. The rebuttal allowed me to get pulled up ten times more. What about that James,. Ed and David? You crucified me for that. Is that the way that is supposed to work???
Thank you sooooo much Sarah! Rip off Report is ruining my reputation and I am forced to spend $6,000 on Reputation Management Services to burry my report under pages of poinless websites about me and my company.
Hopeful one day there will be retribution!
Who is John Gault?
I am not a lawyer. has anyone thought of filing a class action lawsuit agaist them in Canada? criminal harasment is a crime in Canada.
has anyone tried this issue in any court anywhere?
Shocks the conscience is a phrase used as a legal standard in the United States and Canada. An action is understood to "shock the conscience" if it is perceived as manifestly and grossly unjust, typically by a judge.
BEFORE A HEARING OFFICER OFTHE SUPREME COURT OF ARIZONA STATE BAR OF ARIZONA
DAVIDS. GINGRAS, Bar N0. 821097 RESPONDENT
ORDER
The State Bar has asked for a clarification of this Hearing Report regarding the mention of a Censure and a suspension. There is an error in the Report. The intent is to recommend a 30 day suspension, not a Censure. The Report is hereby amended in delete the recommendation of a censure
3200 North Central], Suite 2000
Phoenix, AZ 85012-2440
IN THE MATTER OF A MEMBER
File No. 06-2059
DAVID S. GINGRAS,
HEARING OFFICER’S REPORT
Bar No. 021 097 )
PROCEDURAL HISTORY
Probable cause was found in this matter on April 23, 2007. After an Initial Case Management Conference, held on August 27, 2007, the matter was set for final hearing on October 9, 2007.
A final hearing was continued to December 20, 2007. The matter was not settled and the first day of a contested final hearing was held on December 20, 2007. Because of availability of witness problems, the completion of the final hearing was not held until March 2008.
FINDINGS OF FACT
Factual Summary
This case involves a Conditional Admittee to the Bar who, for reasons of problems in
his past, was required to undergo random biological fluid testing and completely
abstain from the consumption of alcohol for a period of three years.
After Respondent signed a contract Respondent consumed alcohol. After a period of compliance, at Respondents request, his MAP Contract was modified in April, 2006, to eliminate the requirement of biological fluid testing. On November 2.6, 2006, Respondent was arrested for Driving Under the Influence (DUI).
COUNT ONE
This case has a somewhat long and convoluted past, but it is necessary to go into some of the details in order to understand the arguments that are being made today. Respondent contends that because of the history of the case, he reasonably believed that when his MAP Contract was modified in April, 2006, deleting the requirement that he was subject to random biological fluid testing, it also removed the requirement that he be totally abstinent firom alcohol. The State Bar points out that the written modification does not say that the abstinence clause is removed and that the Director of the MAP program, Hal Nevitt, and the person that did Respondent’s evaluation, Dr. Sucher, both state that Respondent was not given permission to drink.
Respondent applied to be admitted to the Arizona State Bar on December 5, 2001. While his application was pending, Respondent met with the MAP Medical Director, Dr. Michael Sucher, on December 16, 2002. After that meeting, it was Respondents belief that Dr. Sucher would not be recommending participation in MAP or any abstinence or monitoring. Dr. Sucher wrote a report dated December 16, 2002, that indeed did conclude that Respondent’s alcohol abuse was in the past and that he did not require monitoring by the State Bar.
Dr. Sucher changed his conclusion. On February 3, 2003, Dr. Sucher wrote to the MAP Director recommending that Respondent be placed in MAP for one year “regarding his history of alcohol abuse...” and that abstinence should be required of Respondent.
Prior to the August 15, 2003, Formal Hearing (specific date uncertain), Respondent and his attorney, David Derickson, met with Dr. Sucher to discuss the reasons why Dr. Sucher changed his recommendation. On August l5, 2003, Dr. Sucher sent an email to the Chairman of the Committee stating: “I committed {to Respondent] that I would review his progress at six months to determine whether the abstinence would be modified.” David Derickson testified that Dr. Sucher told him and Respondent at the meeting that monitoring and abstinence were tied together, that you couldn’t have one without the other.
Afier the Formal Hearing, on September 12, 2003, the Committee recommended that Respondent be conditionally admitted for a period of three years. The letter specifically stated that Respondent must enter into a MAP Contract incorporating Dr. Sucher’s recommendation (requiring abstinence). The Committee, specifically stated in its letter to Respondent: “Your use of alcohol appears to be a contributing factor to some of your past criminal arrests and charges”.
If you agree to conditional admission, you will need to formally establish your commitment to continue free of conduct that could lead to criminal arrests and charges. Further, the Committee is concerned with your candor in completing important documents such as your law school application and with your behavior, attitude, and conduct in communicating with members of the comrnittee. If you agree to conditional admission, you will need to formally establish your commitment to change your behavior for your own benefit and for the benefit of the public. On September 16, 2003, Respondent agreed to the terms of the September l2, 2003, letter from the Committee.
On November 4, 2003, the Arizona Supreme Court notified the Committee on Character and Fitness that they did not agree with the Committee’s recommendation
and that Respondent’s application for admission was denied.
On September 23, 2004, the Court, by a 3 to 2 margin, ordered that Respondent be admitted under the conditions set forth in the Committee’s letter to Respondent dated September 12, 2003, for a period of 3 years.
In the letter advising Respondent that he would be conditionally admitted, it was made clear that his admission was conditional and pursuant to the recommendations of the MAP program (abstinence) and attached a copy of the Contract
Respondent was conditionally admitted on October 21, 2004.The MAP Contract specified that Respondent was to completely abstain from using alcohol, other drugs, or any other mood altering or mind altering chemicals, for three years. The MAP Contract also specified that Respondent was to participate in random biological fluid testing.
The MAP Contract also specified that Respondent make and attend appointments with Brenda Garrett, R.N., M.C. for monitoring compliance with the agreement.
On December 31-January 1, 2005, Respondent drank some champagne at a New Year's Party. Respondent did not report this alcohol consumption to Dr. Sucher when he met with Dr. Sucher on January 18, 2005.
Respondent met with Dr. Sucher four times in 2005 and once in January 2006 toward the aim of getting a good evaluation that would result in having the testing and abstinence removed from his MAP Contract. On February 2, 2006, Ms. Miller sent a Memorandum in response to Mr. Nevitt's memo stating: “In response to your February 1, 200d, memo, I will agree that Mr.Gingras may stop the random biological fluid testing requirement and the meetings with Brenda Garrett. However, he must still comply with all other terms of his MAP Contract, in particular IB” (IB is the total abstinence provision).
The addendum itself did not reflect the removal of any terms from Respondent's MAP Contract, it only included additional terms. The Addendum also stated: “This addendum does not alter any other provisions of the original [MAP] agreement or the letter dated February 3, 2006."
Dr. Sucher testified that he never told Respondent that he could drink alcohol as a result of the changes to his MAP Contract. Dr. Sucher also testified that Respondent wanted out of the biological fluid testing because of the cost of the testing (See Transcript of Final Hearing).
Respondent’s previous attorney, Maria Speth, testified that when she interviewed Dr. Sucher at the start of these Disciplinary proceedings, he told her that his recollection was that Respondent could drink after the modification of his Hal Nevitt, Director of MAP, testified that he personally spoke to Respondent after the February 3, 2005, letter from the Bar and the modification to the MAP Contract and personally admonished Respondent that he could not drink alcohol and, according to Mr. Nevitt, Respondent acknowledged it
Mr. Nevitt also testified that after receiving the DUI, when he confronted Respondent, Respondent admitted that no one ever told him that he could drink. According to Hal Nevitt, in this conversation on November 29, 2006, Respondent admitted that there was nothing in the modification to the MAP Contract that said that he could drink.
Respondent thereafter drank alcohol on a social basis up until the time of his arrest on November 26, 2006. On November 26, 2006, Respondent was arrested for driving under the influence (“DUI”).
On December 26, 2006, Respondent pled guilty to driving while impaired. Respondent was sentenced to 10 days in jail, all but 24 hours of which would be suspended upon the completion of court ordered alcohol screening, education or treatment and he was ordered to pay costs and fines of $1,700.
Dr. Sucher and Hal Nevitt both testified that they did not tell Respondent that he could drink alcohol.
Analysis of Facts
Dr. Sucher and Hal Nevitt testified that they never gave Respondent permission to drink. Hal Nevitt testified that at the time of the change in the contract, he reiterated to Respondent that he could not drink and Respondent acknowledged that to him at the time.
.
The parties spent many hours arguing over whether Respondent was alcohol
dependent or an alcohol abuser. This Hearing Officer is not convinced that Respondent is alcohol dependent, but something more troubling lurks beneath the surface of Respondends personality. Simply put, Respondent in the past has seen things the way he wants to, interprets things the way he wants and, when faced with something he doesn’t like, sometimes
resentment and defiance take over.
Several points influence this Hearing Officer’s decision regarding Whether Respondenfs interpretation of the modification to his Contract was reasonable. First, it is the impression of this Hearing Officer that Respondent never fully accepted the restrictions on his admission imposed on him by the Supreme Court. Respondent does not think he is addicted to alcohol and this drove his persistent efforts to get the restriction lifted. More importantly, Respondent felt that the Committee was wrong in concluding that he needed abstinence and monitoring and further does not like being told what to do. When he was, it then became his mission to change the order.As a result of this, Respondent saw and interpreted what he wanted to see.
The second point is Respondent’s history up to the point of the “misunderstanding”. Backing up and reviewing Respondent’s history shows that Respondent does not come to these proceedings without having been put on notice that his honesty was in question and that he was going to be held to a high standard of compliance and scrutiny.
The Committee on Character and Fitness expressed concerns about Respondent’s
candor and was concerned about his “behavior, attitude and conduct in your communications with this Committee.”. The Supreme Court initially rejected Respondents admission but later, by a three to two margin, narrowly approved his conditional admission. Respondent drank alcohol after signing his MAP Contract agreeing that he would not do so
While Respondent’s conduct was not knowing, it certainly was negligent. Was Respondent’s misinterpretation reasonable‘? This does not exonerate the Respondent. He still negligently violated the terms of his conditional admission by consuming alcohol, and also knowingly drove a car after becoming impaired by alcohol.
CONCLUSIONS OF LAW
The Amended Complaint in this matter alleges that Respondent violated Rule 42 Ariz- R.Sup.C‘t.; ER 8.4 (b) committing a criminal act that reflects adversely on a lawyer’s honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects; and Rule 53(g)Violating a condition of admission. The ‘Hearing Officer finds that the State Bar has proven by clear and convincing evidence that Respondent violated these Rules.
ABA STANDARDS
ABA Standard 3.0 provides that four criteria should be considered: (1) the duty violated; (2) the lawyer’s state of mind; (3) the actual or potential injury caused by the lawyer’s misconduct; (4) the existence of aggravating and mitigating factors.
Suspension is generally appropriate when a lawyer knowingly engages in criminal conduct...that seriously adversely reflects on the lawyer’s fitness to practice.” While the commentary notes that “... a lawyer should be professionally answerable only for offenses that indicate lack of those characteristics relevant to law practice,”.
Although Respondent only has two DUI’s over a I0 year span, he was on conditional admission because of concerns about his alcohol/criminal history. His knowing violation of the terms of his conditional admission in getting a DUI shows at least “indifference to [his] legal obligation.”
So basically what these posts say is that 'David' the ror lawyer who said that I was dishonest and a liar is someone who only had his lawyer application accepted on a appeal with a slim margin and subject to a prohibition which he broke by committing a crime, has spent time in jail for this crime, was alleged to have committed offences against a minor (the most heinous of all crimes).
So, THIS' David' person is the one writing on behalf of ror and accusing victims of lying & crying all over the internet because they dared to become upset at the loss of their occupation due to the mongrel and his grubby little website?---- oooopppps :),
.
While you guys keep carrying on about irrelevant garbage, Ripoff Report keeps winning and winning and winning....
In yet another example, just this week a federal court in New York issued a 64-page (!) ruling in favor of Ripoff Report which found, among other things, that even if Ed Magedson creates titles to reports (as Sarah Bird falsely suggested), the CDA would still apply and would still protect him as long as he did not change the meaning of the original author’s report text.
The case was Seldon v. Magedson, Case No. 11-cv-6218 (S.D.N.Y July 10, 2012) and you can read the decision here:
https://scr.bi/P2W1hg
As this latest example shows, since Ms. Bird wrote her “Anatomy of A Ripoff Report Lawsuit” more than four years ago, every single theory and argument she presented has -- without exception -- been considered and then ultimately REJECTED by the courts. Think about that -- not one single point that Sarah made has been proven correct....NOT ONE.
Here's the deal -- in this case the plaintiff (Seldon) is in New York and he sued Ripoff Report and Ed Magedson in federal court in NY. The general gist of his claims was as follows -- he alleged that a third party posted several false reports about him on ROR, and he claims that he called Ed Magedson and asked him to take the reports down. Mr. Seldon further alleged that during these phone calls, Ed agreed to investigate the posts and then remove them if they could not be substantiated. In return, Seldon says he promised to compensate Ed by giving him some websites that Seldon owned but wasn't using.
After Ed failed to remove the posts, Seldon sued in New York for breach of contract and defamation. We moved to dismiss for lack of personal jurisdiction and in a decision issued on July 10, the federal magistrate judge agreed that the facts in the Complaint were not sufficient to establish personal jurisdiction in New York.
But the judge didn’t stop there.
Rather, in his ruling the magistrate judge also talks a lot about the CDA (we raised this as an alternative reason for dismissal)....and THIS is the part that is important. The judge held that even if Ripoff Report staff created titles to reports about Seldon using words such as "Sexual Pervert" (that was only of the examples), this was still editorial conduct which is protected by the CDA.
Once again, Sarah Bird’s view is rejected by the courts.
NOTE -- anyone who has ever spent 5 minutes on www.ripoffreport.com knows that titles are created by the users of the site. They are not created by Ed and not by ROR staff; you can easily verify this yourself just by walking through the report submission process - there's a page in that process where users are presented with a BLANK BOX for them to enter their report’s title. Still not enough proof for you? Fine, just try creating a report and compare the title that YOU created with the final version that appears on the site.
Despite this, plaintiffs like Mr. Seldon have formed the mistaken idea that they can avoid the CDA simply by claiming (falsely) that Ripoff Report itself created the title to a defamatory report even though they know this isn't true. Wonder where he got that idea? From this page? Well, as this ruling shows, that argument just isn't sufficient to defeat the CDA.
Once again, everyone is free to form their own opinions about whether the CDA is a good law or whether we need to change it....keeping in mind -- if you want to change it, you must first propose a new law that is BETTER than what we have now. However, as time has proven over and over again, every single person who has followed Ms. Bird’s encouragement and sued Ripoff Report with silly theories of “racketeering” or with false claims that “Ed created the title therefore the CDA doesn’t apply".....EVERY SINGLE ONE of these suits have been fought, argued, and LOST.
Isn’t it time to find a better way?
P.S. If you think this post seems to contain some animosity towards Sarah Bird, you’re right....it does. This isn’t personal....it’s just sad that Ms. Bird has given such bad advice which has harmed so many people with apparently no regard for those she hurts. And we’re not talking about harm caused to ROR....we’re talking about the desperate people who foolishly trusted Sarah’s advice only to find their lives destroyed as a result.
If Sarah really cared about helping people with accurate information, don’t you think it’s time for her to come forward and admit her mistakes? Wouldn't that be the right thing to do?
*crickets*
Ripoff report wrote:
“See my point? Bullies only have as much power as youallow them to take....so don't give them any”.
Yet, on their website they write:
“Google can easily find any needle in the haystack. So if your business receives a negative complaint or review online, it is forever cached into search engines. If you care about your reputation, you must do something about it, or it will negatively affect your ability to land new customers”.
So does this mean that Ripoff Report should be free to bully people and only the ones who can or will pay should care about their reputation?
It was interesting to note that ror refers directly to Google with respect to how the search results will look after they are paid via the CAP or arbitration. This is great information for my case because I have elected not to sue Yahoo or Bing and this point was brought up by the defendants. I only realised the value of this direct reference to Google as a result of looking on the website for the above quote so once again ror has provided assistance to my case.
Jaburg & Wilk should start providing criminal defense work as they are uniquely qualified having David Gingras in the fold. If you ever get pulled over with a 16 year old in one hand and a highball in another, he is the guy to go to.
DAVID S. GINGRAS: ATTORNEY FOR RIPOFF REPORT
Bar No. 021097; File No. 06-2059
Supreme Court No. SB-08-0157-D/R
By Arizona Supreme Court judgment and order dated Dec. 5, 2008,
David S. Gingras, 3200 N. CentralAve., 20th Fl., Phoenix, AZ, was suspended for 30 days. He was placed on probation for two years and is required to participate in the State Bar’s Member Assistance Program (MAP). He was also assessed the costs and expenses of the disciplinary proceedings. Mr.Gingras was reinstated effective Feb. 19, 2009.
Mr. Gingras was conditionally admitted to the State Bar and required to enter into a MAP contract. The MAP contract specified that Mr. Gingras was to completely abstain from using alcohol, other drugs, or any other mood-altering or mind-altering chemicals for three years. Mr. Gingras violated the terms of the MAP contract and was arrested for driving under the influence.
Mr. Gingras pled guilty to driving while impaired to the slightest degree. Three aggravating factors were found: dishonest or selfish motive, refusal to acknowledge wrongful nature of conduct and illegal conduct.
Seven mitigating factors were found: absence of prior disciplinary record, personal or emotional problems, timely good-faith effort to make restitution or to rectify consequences of misconduct, full and free disclosure to disciplinary board or cooperative attitude toward proceedings, character or reputation, imposition of other penalties or sanctions and remorse.
Mr. Gingras violated Rule 42, ARIZ.R.S.CT., ER 8.4(b) and Rule 53(g), ARIZ.R.S.CT.
David Gingras also had a case for a sex offense.
Charge: SEXUAL CONDUCT WITH MINOR
Case Number: S-0700-CR-1999093685
Title: Category: Criminal
Court: Maricopa County Superior Filing Date: 07/29/1999
Judge: Disposition Date: 12/01/1999
Verify all info above with court: https://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/publicaccess/caselookup.aspx
Conditional Admission. An applicant who currently satisfies eligibility requirements for admission to practice law, including fitness requirements, and who possesses the requisite good moral character required for admission, may be conditionally admitted to the practice of law if the applicant demonstrates recent successful rehabilitation from chemical dependency or successful treatment for mental or other illness, or from any other condition this Court deems appropriate, that has caused conduct that would otherwise have rendered the applicant currently unfit to practice law. The [Admissions Authority] shall recommend appropriate conditions that the applicant to the bar must comply with during the period of conditional admission.
Conditional admission is intended to act as a “safety net” to increase the likelihood of the conditional lawyer’s continuing fitness—not as a method of achieving fitness. The conditional admissions process is particularly useful when dealing with recent recovery from or treatment for chemical abuse, dependency, or mental illness since it recognizes the importance of rehabilitation from dependency or treatment of a condition that resulted in previous conduct or behavior that, if unaddressed, would have rendered an applicant unfit, avoids denial of admission because rehabilitation or treatment is recent, encourages applicants not to delay getting help they need, and provides continuing assurances of fitness. A jurisdiction may also provide for conditional admission in cases involving rehabilitation from other misconduct or unfitness that concerns admissions authorities that does not result from chemical abuse, addiction or mental or other illness, such as neglect of financial responsibilities.
https://apps.americanbar.org/legalservices/colap/downloads/model_rule_on_conditional_admission_aug2009.pdf
Gingras, David S.
12/05/08
DC No. 06-2059
SB-08-0157-D
(By Judgment)
As a conditional admittee, Respondent violated terms of his probation contract. Respondent was required to submit to random biological testing and abstain from alcohol for three years. In December 2006, Respondent pled guilty to driving while impaired.
ER 8.4(b) and Rule 53(g)
https://www.azcourts.gov/attorneydiscipline/DisciplinaryCasesMatrix/2008DisciplinaryCasesMatrix.aspx
Order
https://www.azcourts.gov/Portals/36/2008_scanned/JOandOrders/GingrasJO.pdf
1. I looked at the records of the urls from ror that I have kept. On September 26th 2011 my lawyers sent Google a list of 55 urls created from 6 reports on ror. As of yesterday there are 126 urls attached to my name and that is easy to verify. Ripoff Report is lying but this is irrelevant because I do not have to convince anyone but the Australian judge and I have it all documented.
2. Ripoff Report’s business model was described as 'appalling' by a US judge. See pg 4 on this legal decision:
https://www.gopetition.com/petitions/remove-rip-off-report-from-google/signatures.html
3. The exorbitant costs of the corporate advocacy program were entered into evidence in this US case:
https://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/cacdce/2:2010cv01360/465955/96/5.html
4. Google was a defendant in this US case against Ripoff Report:
https://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-jersey/njdce/2:2007cv01882/201664/1/
This means for non-US litigants that Google cannot argue ror is an unknown website.
5. Let me be quite clear about defamation laws in Australia: Any organisation that participates in the communication of defamation can be sued. This derives from an old English case but there are two High Court cases that set precedents:
Dow Jones v Gutnick set the precedent that a plaintiff is defamed in the jurisdiction in which they live rather than the jurisdiction in which the material was uploaded:
https://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/HCA/2002/56.html
According to the decision in Thompson v Australian Capital Television, even though it was not the original producer of the defamatory material the defendant knew that the nature of the TV show could contain defamatory material and had the ability to prevent its broadcast (and hence the defamation)
https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/HCA/1996/38.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=title(thompson%20and%20australian%20capital%20television%20)
6. Google puts Australian advertisements on the defamatory webpages and earns revenue (through AdSense and shared approx 65/35 with the webmaster). .
7. Ripoff Report has hurt so many people. Read the comments attached to the 570+ signatures on this petition and ask yourself are we all dishonest (mouse over’ view’ next to each comment)?
https://www.gopetition.com/petitions/remove-rip-off-report-from-google/signatures.html
8. Finally, before I filed proceeding ror reports ranked at the top of a search for my name. I started a blog because I knew that the media would write about the case (because I am suing Google and the media are sent case lists) and I wanted to get the facts online because Google did not remove the defamatory material.
I would have preferred for it all to go away quietly but that was not the case. My blog (which ror states is evidence of my apparent' lying') is all referenced. It now ranks at the top of a search for my name. However, when it was first posted online Google removed it from their index a few days after I applied for AdSense. Of course, I was not going to put Google ads on it but the dashboard ip numbers showed a lot of vists from Google and then it was removed from their index. I have this all documented. My blog was only put back into the Google index after I publically complained of censorship in a discussion in which Cutts was participating. Suddenly the next morning the blog was back in the Google index.
The defamation is still indexed but my blog has collated all the evidence about ror and this is referenced. From the little that I know about the technical aspects of SEO this is a combination of popularity (website visits) and the fact that ror has taken a dive in the Google SERPs.
Some people feel that complaining about ROR and lying about the facts will somehow help their situation. They are wrong. Years and years of history have confirmed that complaining about ROR is useless.
For anyone looking for a REAL solution to address a false report, read this page: https://www.ripoffreport.com/arbitration.aspx
Is this the perfect solution? No, but at least it's a step in the right direction.
That's not a solution in my opinion. And what is the consequence for you in terms of your lying about the facts for years on this thread? Complaining about ROR is not useless. The movie industry did a pretty good job of shutting down file sharing websites in the US. You've already basically been banned on Yahoo/Bing/MSN. The heat is on. Just trying to see how much money you can extract before you are forced to change, right?
If you are employed by ROR please allow me to tell you my story. I have recently found that there is a ROR written about me saying that I am a sex offender! it is obvious to anyone reading it, especially to the people who run your site that this is a hideous attempt at humor and meant to do nothing but demoralize me online. It is totally ficticious and completely made up! I am almost certain that it was posted by an ex employee who embezzled 1000s of dollars from our clients and was convicted in court of the offense. Yes, i did yell at him and i was rude to him but I had good reason to be upset. he caused me alot of greif. then he goes on your site and posts these horrible lies about me, includes my full name, my address, correct phone number and there is nothing i can do about it short of spending a bunch of money to beg you to remove these obvious lies. how can this be right?? if you were to read the paragraph it would be obvious to you that this is totally ridiculous but still it is there. second or third on Google! How can anyone defend this??
doing some research i found this , just curious who wrote it or comments from people here on it ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripoff_Report#Lawsuits_against_competing_sites
The proposed changes to the UL defamtion laws offer a real chance for redress for victims of websites that profit from the publication of defamtory material as well as websites owners that refuse to take down false and/or defamatory material:
https://www.digitalspy.com.au/media/news/a386738/internet-trolls-targeted-in-defamation-shakeup.html
Interestingly since the bill was first debated in the UK parliament Google UK spent about 15 minutes downloading the information on ror from links on my blog page and that information is regularly downloaded by law firms - especially in Canada, the UK and Australia.
Hopefully this means that links to ror about UK individuals and companies will be removed quickly upon request. Links to ror reports about two Australians were quietly removed from google after I filed proceedings after they sent a removal request to Google.
The dominos have started to fall outside the US. Ripoff Report can flap and bleat about freedom of speech but without google they are nothing.
Ripoff Report has recently created around 50 + more links to the defamation about me. They really should read up on defamation law because this has created a new cause of action againt Google and/or increased aggravated damages. Why? because we do not have a single publication rule and Google have admitted they can block specific terms and domains.
Ms. Duffy,
Why are you so dishonest? You continue posting false information such as your statement that "Ripoff Report has recently created around 30 more links to the defamation...." This statement is totally false, you know it's totally false, and yet you seem to have no hesitation about LYING in this manner while crying in court about how unfairly YOU have been treated?
Liars never win and winners never lie. So which one are you? Actually, you have already demonstrated the answer to that.
And by the way, the only person who has used the word "taunt" on this page is you. In nine (9) separate posts you have slammed ROR for "taunting" people by explaining the law to them; i.e., "Ripoff report taunts non US victims on their website with the 2010 law that effectively prevents us from filing proceedings because the US courts will not enforce the judgement."
Since when is telling people the truth about the law equivalent to "taunting" them? Would you prefer that we LIE to people like you do? A lot of people don't understand the law in this area, so we have done our best to explain the law to them clearly and accurately. This is not to "taunt" them; it's to educate them. No one benefits from ignorance of or misstatements about the law, so we do our best to explain the law to people in order to help them understand why suing ROR is generally such a bad idea.
What would you prefer? That we mislead people as so many others have done (including SEOmoz) into thinking that suing ROR will help their situation, even though we know it won't? Ma'am, if that's what you think then you are either intentionally cruel or hopelessly dishonest
It is no secret that ROR has been sued perhaps 50 times or more over the last 10 years (obviously our "taunts" haven't been 100% effective at stopping all lawsuits). How many of those cases ended well for the plaintiff? ZERO. How many of those people do you later regretted spending huge amounts of money paying their lawyers for filing a case that was thrown out of court? (100%?) Given that you clearly have no understanding of the law, why would you encourage people to make the same terrible mistake? Do you have no concern for their well-being? Apparently not.
You are welcome to criticize ROR and Google all you want. It is ironic, however, that between you and the "mongrel", you are clearly the less honest one.
Oh, since you seem to think it's OK to heap blame on Google for something which was not their fault, I honestly hope that Google decides to do the right thing and simply withdraw its services from all Aussies. Instead of providing a hugely valuable service that benefits all Australians, I hope that Google.com.au is replaced with a page that says: "Thanks to the efforts of Janice Duffy, Google is no longer available to any Australians. If you would like to thank Ms. Duffy for taking this service away from you, please email her at [email protected] to let her know what you think."
P.S. Google has never contacted ROR for any evidence in your case against them, but I certainly hope they do as we have lots to share with them. Despite your claims of losing your job because of the ROR posts, you seem to have forgotten that you emailed us on multiple different occasions with conflicting stories about why you were unable to work -- in one email, you claimed to have had an accident, then you said you had been ill, and then you said that you had undergone "validated psychiatric tests that conclude [you] have no personality of conduct disorders but [are] suffering major clinical depression and have an anxiety disorder due to the conflict with [your] employer." So which one was true?
If Google would like any of this correspondence, please let us know and we will be happy to provide copies.
Ripoff Report Privacy Policy,
We respect your privacy. This is why we have taken the time to disclose our information collection practices and our privacy policy. Please take the time to review this document.
Collecting information provides specific benefits to our website visitors and by providing this information, our staff can contact you regarding your report for verification or follow-up if necessary.
We collect information for the following purpose(s):
Verifying reports
Website and system administration
Research and development
Preserving social history as governed by existing law or policy
Users filing a Ripoff Report or rebuttal may opt-in if they would be willing to be contacted by the media, a consumer advocate, lawyer, or government authority to help further their cause or to help with an investigation against the business or individual
Who has access to the information we collect?
Ourselves - Unless you opt-in as mentioned above, information is only shared with the operators of this website.
Of the information we do collect, we do not provide our visitors with access to information we collect.
If you believe that our website has collected incorrect information or if you would like to dispute any information, please contact us using the address at the top of this page.
Ummm …liar, liar pants on fire ….. the mail address that I used to register with ripoff report and that is disclosed in your comment is ‘information that you collect’ is it not?
You are idiots! You have validated that you received my requests to remove the material. This is very helpfull to prove that I did, in fact, try to get the defamatory material removed from Ripoff Report before I sent removal requests to Google.
In fact, I think this effectively squashes one of their arguments. I will spell it out for you! They are trying to argue that I filed for money and did not try to get the website (ror) to remove the defamation as they suggest. Until now I could not prove that you had received my distressed emails. For the purposes of defamation law in Australia it is enough that I tried to get ror to remove it.
Ripoff Report destroys innocent people and then attacks those who stand up to them. I have an email sent to a business owner in which Ed states he will make sure the report(s) have a 'feature page'. This is on the person’s website and he is happy to pass on any information on a CD:
https://www.bwieland.com/ror_policy.htm
The reality is that there is ample evidence of your 'appalling' businesses practices. I have simply collated it on my blog. You are preaching in the wrong place if you expect any readers to believe that I am the liar and you are the innocent victims here.
As for Google withdrawing from AU …lol..this is a ridiculous statement. I don't think that is going to happen anytime soon...lol.. because they make too much money from advertising....pleasssee ......lol
Ripoff report is so hated by so many and with good reason. You are nasty people and you are pissed because there is nothing you can do to stop me by using litigation as you have with others in the US. So do your worst because there is no evidence that I ripped off anyone, committed fraud or stalked, hacked or engaged in scams and that is the bottom line as far as our defamation law is concerned and that is the only law that really matters for my case. I have made this clear from the outset - that my situation is different because of our laws and continued to emphasise this.
Thank you once again for the verification of my argument that I did try to get the material removed from ror in 2008 (and again in 2009). It really has been very helpful to my case.
oh and about the 30+ new urls. When I filed proceedings in February 2011 ror had created between 50 and 58 links to 6 ror reports that are the subject of the claim
There are now 126 separate links...I don't know much about the tech aspects of SEO but it is easy to find out how many links ror has created to a name or business by doing a site search on the ror domain (open the advanced search link t the bottom put the google, type in the search term and then and then put the ripoff report domain name in the box half way down -'narrow your search results by site or domain
The current 126 separate links to 6 ror reports show several snippets dated 2012-this is more than 3 and a half years after the ror reports wer posted and years after any comments or rebuttals were filed...but I don't have to convince anyone but the judge and all I have to do is press print..
Google has lost a landmark defamation case in Australia. Unlike the UK case mentioned by Ripoff Report (which will be appealed in December), and other similar cases this was a FULL defamation trial rather than a strikeout or summary judgement. Google lost and they are now publishers under Australian law.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/man-wins-defamation-case-against-google-over-images-published-online/story-e6frfro0-1226507563956
The legal tide is turning and we will be setting a trial date in December.
Great info Aussie. Anyone out there who can start to put together how people in the US will be able to use this to their advantage, please let us know. For example, if we also show up in Australian search results, can we also sue in Australia? I would hope so. Thanks so much and good work Aussie.
Something is very much amiss. In the recent settlement between Children of America and Xcentric Ventures an agreement clearly took place…or did it. There seems to be some disagreement of the terms. It is clear that a check was presented to Xcentric. Go to the posts for Children of America…if you can find them and you will see a change in the way Ed Magedson has acquiesced. In the past you would have seen the plaintiff joined the Consumer Advocacy Program and that Ed Magedsons “investigations” showed them to be righteous dudes. Now however the first thing you see is a commercial written for Children of American by Children of America. The negative post has been placed at the bottom.
Why I wonder? Maybe for no reason. Maybe Magedson’s puppet masters have decided that the former SOP for CAP was legally questionable and they have been called on it by authorities.
Wait a minute. I saw some of Ed Magedsons commercials for the CAP program. He claims after he does his “investigation” you will be glad there is a post about you. “No Kidding”! Clearly if you are on page 1 of Google for being a sodomite but Ed Magedson says he checked you out are you’re a-ok and the posters are liars, the value of his statements could have merit. However if your Rip Off Report post doesn’t come up till page 6, what value is it when searchers lose attention at page 2.
So if your post is on page 6 it would seem that there is no magic taking place and there is little value to a thumbs up from the Edster. Another Plaintiff G W Equity doesn’t come up till page 4. What’s the deal? Why are they losing their ranking and if it isn’t on page 1 is there a break in the price for letting me write nice things about me? A sliding scale as puppet master numero uno likes to call it.
Most importantly it seems clear from the settlement and the change in the way they get posted and indexed it seems, there may be reason to doubt the validity of the scurrilous claims made about Children of America in the first place Were they a bad company? Are they a good company? How many other posts on Rip Off Report should be looked at the same way? Why all of them of course, and I approve this message.
Now this is odd and may need some professional help from the SEO giants among us to explain.
A civil action styled Children of America v Xcentric Ventures (ROR) just settled out. It seems things are all not well though. A check has been given to ROR for a clear quid pro quo. It was asked that ROR not cash the check and ROR responds that they have complied with the settlement.
Google Children of America and the ROR post comes up on page 6. Look at the post. The first thing that comes up is the commercial written by Children of America about themselves and the post shows up at the bottom.
So have the title tags been changed?
This seems a little odd to me and while it may be claimed that Rip Off Report has not lost this case, did they win it?
What is also clear to me is...suing works. All that sabre rattling from the ED is just him saying...don't sue me...don't sue me.
www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/235/RipOff0235661.htm
Here's an excerpt from email from ROR:
"NOTE: If your posting is going to include serious allegations, criminal or otherwise, you should support your Posting with the appropriate supporting documentation. Absent such documentation/information your Posting may be rejected and/or you may receive another e-mail that asks for more information or further explanation."
I have a libel (ridiculous post accusing me being a criminal) from soemeone clearly a fake and I suspect someone. Now I am sure 199% that Ed Magedson has NO such documentation yet he allowed his anonymous user to libel o me.
PLUS, I am in Europe, although I used to live in the USA.
I am completely opposite of a criminal and totally don't deserve that post, probably coming from a competitor, a criminal who I exposed or someone I suspect and most likely that was he, that started from a simple fight of words.
Ed Magedson is ignoring my request for substantial documents to ask the poster or to remove the libelous "report".
My hands are tied since I am not in the USA, yet how can one country libel everyone else and get away with it?
Any ideas how I can resolve this?
NOTE: If your posting is going to include serious allegations, criminal or otherwise, you should support your Posting with the appropriate supporting documentation. Absent such documentation/information your Posting may be rejected and/or you may receive another e-mail that asks for more information or further explanation.
it would be nice if you could remove the link (links) on this article to the R OFF R site... no need to pass this site any link juice! just a thought
Sarah Bird ESQ. did a great job but she lost me when she implied that ROR was violating Google's terms of service. I was kind of hoping that Sarah (or anyone else ) could explain how you get to that conclusion?
Google has to pay $200,000 plus interest to Michael Trkulja :). It will be interesting to see how many non US victims of ror who have had their removal requests refused now lawyer up :).
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/12/google_australia_defmation_case/
Earlier this week, after attorney Lisa Borodkin filed a motion for sanctions against RipOffReport.com owner Ed Magedson and his attorney David Gringas for allegedly "asserting frivolous claims against her for an improper purpose," United States District Judge G. Murray Snow dismissed the case against Borodkin.
https://www.sfgate.com/business/prweb/article/Attorney-Lisa-Borodkin-Prevails-in-4040608.php#ixzz2CTf5fepz
This is the motion filed by Brodokin for sanctions against Magedson:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/110381758/Sanctions-against-Ed-Magedson
Note that in section D: The Demand (p. 10), in an email to Ms Brodkin Magedson asked for a $100,000 to drop the case. Magedson wrote:
Benefit to you, you would not have to go thru a long court battle. This amount will be much less than what I will be suing for. This is one court battle I will be looking forward to. I will be on a mission to get courts to punish lawyers like you and Blackert. What you did is disgusting, despicable and unforgivable. Courts need to start coming down on lawyers like you as well as prosecutors for misconduct. . . .What I am offering you will get you to avoid a long drawn out legal battle and will only make you look worse than you already do. You can also start focusing on looking for a job instead of a legal battle.You would also need to start, immediately paying on that judgment,$10,000 down and $5,000 a month. If not, I will see you in court.
This is the ror response to the motions for sanctions:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/111819543/Ripoff-Report-s-Response-to-Lisa-Borodkin-s-Motion-for-Rule-11-Sanctions
The Australian case has set a legal precedent in non US countries with respect to defamation litigation against search engines, ISPs, website owners etc and the judge dismissed Ripoff Report’s case. It has been a good week.
Had not checked this forum in a while.
It would appear that Lisa B. is making some progress in the balance over information v extortion.
looks like ROR is reinventing itself.
Hi Shawn,
Thank you for your post. Could you expand on what you meant? Who is Lisa B. and what is she doing and how can it help?
Also how is ROR reinventing itself and any way for us to get stuff removed now to your knowledge that wasn't available before?
Lisa B. = Lisa Borodkin
She is a Harvard graduate and a very tenacious attorney.
ROR has a whole new look and fundamentally functions the same but Google is treating it differently.
ROR is for all intents and purposes, still an extortion business model that encourages users to put inflammatory content up.
Ed and his lawyers analyze the shakedown value of the content put up by the author.
If it looks profitable, Ed has his surrogates use a proxy, create fake user accounts and pump up the content freshness in order that Google re index it and it stays at the top of the search results.
HERE IS WHAT CHANGED IN THE GAME
---------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming you can find the author of the ROR posting, you simply file suit, get a judgment and an order of injunction in any State or Federal Court having jurisdiction over the poster / author.
After that, you contact Google legal with a copy of the injunction and Court Order and they will deindex the post.
It costs around $400 for do it yourself - pro se.
It will cost around $2500.00 using a knowledgeable attorney.
Lisa is just such an attorney.
I am one of Lisa's biggest fans!
Hi Shawn,
Thank you so very much for this information. Especially at the holiday season, we appreciate getting such news!
I have 2 scenarios which perhaps you can help us with as I did hear about the way to get google to remove the results w/ a court order, but they present interesting challenges.
#1) You can't find the posters - can you file a lawusit against Jane or John Doe and publish something in the newspaper, for example, in order to get a court order that way? If it varies state by state any idea how to find out if we can in our state?
#2) In the case of the user "Smitty" I think in this thread, if someone posts a negative report about themselves - not a comment, but a report - for whatever reason, to lessen the blow, etc. or who knows - what to do then? Possibly again through Jane or John Doe lawsuit?
#3) Possible to get a court order in another country? For example in the US perhaps Jane Doe lawsuit like this isn't possible, but what about, for example, India?
Finally, I was wondering if you did indeed have any more insight or even a short tutorial on how to do this yourself for people in terms of the actual court documents to file, things to do, etc. - obviously it will vary, but an idea. It would be such a great service to the community, I don't think you know how many people it would help that have been hurt! It would be such an honor!
Thank you!!!
The issue I have found is when the posters were clearly already lying about whatever they are posting & went to protect themselves by either:
a) hiding behind a proxy before posting
b) writing the post from a public computer so you can't track them.
Either way it becomes a dead end so you can't track them.
I'm not necessarily talking about ROR, but even on sites where the poster created their own blog & are then protected by let's say Google.
Google protects all blogspot blogs & will fight tooth & nail to even provide the IP address. That's been my experience.
I only deal with known posters on verifiable good businesses that have been unfairly attacked online.
This puts me in the position of Judge and Jury, but it makes sure that I don't end up creating more societal problems then I eliminate.
As far as John Doe's, I am not convinced they actually have a negative impact on a legitimate business.
The public is getting smarter at spotting fake and self serving BS.
A former John Doe AKA Kevin Sianez, ending up digging his own grave on ROR and is looking at doing many years in prison.
As far as John Doe's, I am sure procedurally that all you do is file a suit against a john doe then name ROR in rem.
Hi Shawn,
I understand.
When you said name ROR in "rem" do you mean "remarks" I assume?
When ROR sends a motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim I assume it is denied?
Also, here is a great question - what do you think about Statute of Limitations in John Doe cases? If the report was filed in 2007, for example, and a 4 year SOL exists, but lets say I found out about it in 2010, would the SOL not be in effect?
Thanks very much Shawn..
BTW when you say you work with certain companies, what is it you do and how do we contact you? SEO?
With these answers to my questions above, you're helping a lot of people who monitor this thread. We appreciate it.
Also another important note regarding statute of limitations...
if the respondent has NO CHANCE to respond (John Doe) and we are certain they won't challenge it, is it possible to get around the Statute of Limitations that way? Or will ROR or the Judge strike it down on Statute of Limitations issues?
In mortgages, etc. for example - the banks still will sue and it's up to the defendant to prove they're out of the statute of limitations I believe.
Also, I wonder if one way to get around the statute of limitations is to file in another country with more years and give the court order to Google there. If they remove from Google India will they remove from google.com?
In rem (Latin, power about or against "the thing"[1]) is a legal term describing the power a court may exercise over property (either real or personal) or a "status" against a person over whom the court does not have "in personam jurisdiction". Jurisdiction in rem assumes the property or status is the primary object of the action, rather than personal liabilities not necessarily associated with the property
One more thing ROR does. They do NOT allow any positive posts.
Go test it, get someone who knows you aren't the person depicted in the post to post something positive or something that will contradict the post & it won't be approved.
I'm a consumer who posted a complaint against a company on ripoffreport.com, and now I'm worried that this company can take legal action against me - the consumer who posted the scathing complaint. The report I posted shows up in all search engines, and this certainly must have hurt the company's business. I posted this same report on other consumer advocate websites as well, but all the other sites allowed me to remove the report.
I was a hotheaded consumer and ignorant of any legal repercussions that may occur. The company was acting in good faith, but I felt that they continued to be wrong. What I posted I felt to be the truth, but I feel that I over reacted.
I don't want to put a link to the actual report for fear of further damage, but I'll paste the text here with non-identifying elements. I'm most concerned about the title which is a scathing accusation even though I felt this to be true at the time. Any comments or advice is appreciated. I don't see much about company's suing their customers who post complaints against them on these types of websites. Perhaps this doesn't occur much. Please let me know if you think I should be worried. Here is the original report with updates I added a few days later
X COMPANY Scams People Into Picking Illegitimate Movers From Their Website By Listing Fraudulent Reviews
UPDATE *UPDATE ..X COMPANY redeems themselves entirely and is now recommended
X COMPANY provides a list of movers (and other general helpers) on their website from which you can pick from and pay for in advance. This list includes what are supposed to be reviews from previous customers for each mover or helper.I picked Y HELPER based on what I thought were rave reviews from previous customers. As it turns out, I have every reason to believe that many reviews listed on X COMPANY are fraudulent and that X COMPANY condones unethical and illegal behavior from their movers for their own financial benefit.First of all, my own negative review of Y HELPER which I posted after receiving their services was edited by someone else several hours later and completely rewritten to be positive. I notified X COMPANY about this, and they refunded the money I paid to them in advance (but not the money I was forced to pay Y HELPER) with the explanation that Y HELPER had infiltrated my account via a security leak - namely that they obtained the last four digits of my credit card number to identify themselves as me.As it turns out, X COMPANY has complete control over the reviews on their site. I rewrote my negative review again, and this time it was deleted. I rewrote it a 3rd time. The 3rd time my review was kept negative but the text was replaced with text cut and pasted from an earlier email which I sent to X COMPANY with my original complaint - certainly not what I wanted to say in my review.I have witnessed other reviews on X COMPANY being changed or deleted. I have every reason to believe that X COMPANY manipulates reviews to make them misrepresentative of their actual movers.X COMPANY still maintains a relationship with Y HELPER even though they agree that I was 'ripped off', and any negative review that I post for Y HELPER either gets rewritten or deleted.This fact is confirmed by the fact that Y HELPER did such a poor job, they could never be representative of the reviews that they have for themselves on X COMPANY.X COMPANY continues to keep their reviews positive, and it's proven that X COMPANY can change or delete a review at their own will.
X COMPANY REDEEMS THEMSELVES!
Horray for X COMPANY! X COMPANY has redeemed themselves by dropping Y HELPER from their website. I'm glad to see that they care enough about their services to make this change. I hope that in the future X COMPANY will allow the reviews of their movers to occur naturally and not try so hard to make their movers look perfect.
X COMPANY redeems themselves entirely and is now recommended.
The company X COMPANY has resolved the issue in good faith after this report was filed. They dropped Y HELPER from their list of helpers, and they contacted me to let me know. They put pressure on Y HELPER to refund my money, and they were successful. I am confident that the company has permanently resolved the problem for me and all customers going forward, and although I believe that I did nothing wrong by using ripoffreport.com to file a complaint, I feel that the permanent nature of this report is no longer what I wish for this company, and the company has redeemed themselves to the point where they deserve to have this negative publicity completley removed. I believe that they will operate in good faith and sound judgement going forward. Since they've redeemed themselves so well, I would not hesitate to use them again.I've been allowed to remove this same report on other consumer advocate websited with this explanation, but ripoffreport.com does not remove any reports - which I disagree with, but they're radical.
Hi there,
What I still don't understand, is how your reviews were being edited/deleted even after you told them they were.
Sounds fishy to me.
I mean yes I think they should have control over reviews, but unless they have a personal relationship with the moving company, why would they bother deleting or editing a negative review when that's their job, to be impartial.
Michelle
My reviews were in fact being edited or deleted by X COMPANY after I reported this to them.
I tried to repost my negative review of the loaders at least a couple of more times. X COMPANY either deleted it - or replaced it with pasted text from an email I sent to them (which contained a seperate complaint about the loaders) - but not what I wanted to say in my review however. They kept my review negative, but they wouldn't allow me to say what actually happened. Then, they kept the loaders listed as helpers with a positive rating for three weeks. I felt that this was misleading to consumers, so I posted on ripoffreport what you see above.
I posted an honest opinion of what I felt to be true about this company, and it has basis, but I'm worried that this company is now angry and may try to make me liable. They resolved the issue after the complaint was posted, so I feel that they saw the report which made them fix things.
I posted the report without any legal advice, and now I feel that I'm just as much of a victim as anyone else. I didn't realize that I was being coerced into submitting specific tags and keywords designed to come up first in a Google search and that I was being coached by ripoffreport to maximize the effect. Also, when you fill out the complaint form, it says that it won't post your first and last name, but alas, there is my first name posted right on the report at the end.
Brilliant and very informative post, thanks a lot!
How did this case end up? (The original one - RipOff vs SEOMoz)
The Arizona Legislature has passed a bill which makes it an offence to harass via the internet. HB 2549 "[p]rohibits using any electronic or digital device, instead of a telephone, with the intent to terrify, intimidate, threaten, harass, annoy or offend a person." More information can be obtained here:
https://www.vote4vic.com/index.cfm/article_58.htm
So how does that fit with publishing false, defamatory racist and vile material on ror?
Today the Full Bench of the Federal Court in Australia ruled that Google was guilty of deceptive trade practices. The interesting part is that they deemed Google to be a publisher. The judgment states:
"What appears on Google's web page is Google's response to the user's query,"
"That it happens to headline a keyword chosen by the advertiser does not make it any less Google's response.
"It is an error to conclude that Google has not engaged in the conduct of publishing the sponsored links because it has not adopted or endorsed the message conveyed by its response to the user's query."
So now we have it enshrined in law that Google is a publisher. This is the judgment:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/87734261/document2012-04-02-163941
I don't know how that would work in a legal sense because we don't have jurisdictional contraints like the US. Maybe it might be the time for US victims of this grubby website to call Arizona. It is worth a try!
Ripoff Report does remove material.
I also think I found a couple of examples of Ripoff Report removing posts from its website. I documented them. Anyone who wants the links can contact me through my blog;
https://drjaniceduffy.com/
Another media story, published today links ripoff report and google in a negative way:
https://www.smartcompany.com.au/information-technology/049155-the-faceless-internet-giants.html
How did this case end up?
The latest media about Google and Ripoff Report:
https://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-in-the-gun-as-cyber-hate-victims-fight-back-20120401-1w6nf.html
Hopefully some more non US victims will sue Google.
Hope you can get that picked up by a US paper/site.
Interested Aussie --
The funny thing is that even without the CDA, you will still lose. Don't agree? Consider this...
It's a well-known fact that the United Kingdom is one of the most pro-plainitff, pro-lawsuit, anti-free speech places on Earth, and yet Google just won a case there which was basically identical to yours:
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=48894&c=1
When will people learn to STOP BLAMING GOOGLE for everything? If someone posts a lie about you, then you should sue the author. Blaming Google for indexing billions of web pages is something only a fool would do.
I am aware of the Eady judgements and, it appears that the Tamiz decision will be appealed. Yet, in the Davidson v Habeeb judgement Google was indicated as a publisher. Moreover, as all of the UK, the issue is evidence specific and based upon the circumstances of the case.
The case mentioned by Ripoff report is not identical to my mine.
Under Australian Defamation law prior knowledge is a critical fact. The defence of innocent dissemination states:
(1) It is a defence to the publication of defamatory matter if the defendant proves that:
(a) the defendant published the matter merely in the capacity, or as an employee or agent, of a subordinate distributer, and
(b) the defendant neither knew, nor ought reasonably to have known, that the matter was defamatory, and
(c) the defendant’s lack of knowledge was not due to any negligence on the part of the defendant.
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), a person is a "subordinate distributor" of defamatory matter if the person:
(a) was not the first or primary distributor of the matter, and
(b) was not the author or originator of the matter, and
(c) (c) did not have any capacity to exercise editorial control over the content of the matter (or over the publication of the matter) before it was first published.
Google certainly know about Ripoff Report. Apart from all the complaints over the years, they were co-defendants in the GMI case. I certainly notified them on numerous occasions. Google did remove the links to some Australians allegedly defamed on Ripoff Report – just not mine. I have it all documented.
It appears their removal policy is based upon their perception of who will be able to sue Google.
Two-decades ago, most people thought the anonymity of the online world would cause an epidemic of dishonesty, just as they thought it would lead to geeky social isolation. Then came along social networking and the Internet turned not only social but surprisingly honest as detailed in Matt Ridley in the Wall Street Journal - https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204795304577221164189123608.html?mod=WSJ_Tech_TECHEDITORSPICKS_2 The anonymity of sites allows for more honesty.
Yahoo just lost a major landmark case in Australia for failing to remove defamatory search results:
https://scv2.webcentral.com.au/judgments/pdfs/T0088.pdf#page=1&navpanes=0&toolbar=1&scrollbar=1&pagemode=none
Last year Google lost in Italy for failing to remove a defamatory autocomplete:
https://www.stateofsearch.com/google-loses-autocomplete-case-italy/
In 2011 Google lost a defamation case for associating the name of a French with the word ‘scam:
https://www.glenwoodfin.com/reputation-management/google-ranks-the-word-scam-high-in-seo-and-loses-lawsuit/
In 2010 Google lost a defamation cases in France:
https://www.newmedianow.co.uk/2010/09/29/google-loses-defamation-case-in-france/
I expect in the very near future the search engines are going to be very wary of indexing websites that do not remove defamatory material and index the names of individuals and companies in words like scam, ripoff etc.
Ripoff Report:
You really should learn to stop twisting facts. The two cases in the UK were NOT basically identical to my case. In BOTH of these cases the material was removed prior to filing proceedings.
In the 2009 case the plaintiff sued over some snippets that remained online for approximately three weeks after the material was removed.
https://www.5rb.com/docs/Metropolitan%20v%20Google%20EadyJ%2016%20July%202009.pdf
In the recent case Google contacted the publishers of the blog and it was removed. The litigation concerned the lag in time between the plaintiff's contact to Google and the removal of the material - a matter of a few weeks.
According to Judge Eady:
A letter of claim was sent on 29 June to Google UK Ltd, which was received on 5 July.
On 14 August the article and all the comments were removed by the blogger himself. Mr Tamiz was accordingly notified by Google Inc the following day.
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2012/449.html
Google removed some links to the defamatory material published on your grubby little website AFTER they were served with proceedings. However we all know you that you create urls that are many times the number of 'reports'. The links still remain on Google and have destroyed my life.
Ripoff Report admits that it will not remove material even if it is false. You taunt non-US victims with the libel tourism law. Google knows that you publish false and defamatory material. We have no recourse but to fight back against Google.
I know that the defamatory statements are false as are false, offensive and defamatory statements about many people on that website. Hopefully if enough cases are filed outside the US Google might get sick of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend actions caused by Ripoff Report.
Ripoff Report quickly redacted the name of Will DeVries, Privacy Policy Counsel for Google from a Ripoff Report alleging he is a pedophile and con artist. The report alleged that Will DeVries “always talks about how important privacy is to him and that's because he doesn't want people he works with to know this about him. He is a child molester!”
https://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com.au/2011/10/good-to-know.html
Before his surname was redacted the Ripoff Report contained allegations that Will DeVries did in fact molest a woman’s son.
This redaction happened within a day of the article on this blog:
https://www.highwick.com/privacy/smear-campaign/
But they forgot to take his name out of the url
https://www.ripoffreport.com/sex-offenders/will-devries/will-devries-will-devries-is-7c254.htm
It shows up in a search for ‘will devries google sex offender’
Maybe Ripoff Report left it in the url because they don’t like to be pressured by big bad Google.
Ripoff Report will not redact similar allegations about Us citizens unless they are paid and ignore non-US citizens. Look at all the allegations of sex offences against children on Ripoff Report and tell me they are all true. Why are these people not in prison now?
repeated post removed
While of course I want him to win, how will his case be any different in the eyes of the sleazy court system that allows them to get away with this?
I believe the law has to change first before any court can do anything, right?
I couldn't see the details, only the names unless I wasn't clicking properly.
ep2002: you can ask on the blog and he will reply
https://badforpeople.org/david-vs-googliath/
Not every country loves the CDA and, in fact, in the UK and the EU the lawmakers are going tough on Google for privacy violations and drafting proposals that order the search engines to remove material upon request.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17523020
https://www.zdnet.com/blog/london/eu-to-decide-on-google-antitrust-case-after-easter/3726
https://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/security/2012/02/22/eu-puts-google-straight-on-right-to-be-forgotten-40095097/
I wonder what would happen if a US company hurt by ror just moved its hosting company offshore to a country that adheres to the EU directives? For example, they could theoretically get the ror reports removed from Google.
Michael Roberts (who is suing the ror editor personally and is therefore not barred by section 230) has created a Facebook page:
Join The RipOffReport Revolution ("Occupy Search"?) RipOffReport.com has a very loud voice, and it is enabled by Google and other advertisers on RipOffReport website. If we revolt against search engines that give high rankings to such low value speech, we can make a difference.
There are different approaches to a protest like this where so much money is at stake. For example, a RipOffReport Revolutionary Activists could click on the GOOGLE AdWords® listed onRipOffReport.com pages, then when arriving at the advertiser's website, email them (or complete the contact form) and let them know that the ad-click was a protest and that the advertiser is going to receive lots of advertising bills from other protesters unless they specifically request to be removed from display ads on RipOffReport.com websites.
Be sure to include the link to the AdWords account dispute instructions so they can request removal from RoR website.We need to make predatory websites toxic to the online advertising community. When there is no corporate conscience to dictate online practices, only the bottom line will make a difference.https://www.facebook.com/pages/RipoffReport-revolt/112645615535216
Can you give us the link to the dispute instructions.
Thanks
They are on this FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Join-The-RipOffReport-Revolt/112645615535216
repeated comment deleted
my post has been blocked for some reason: have you thought of this issue?
Shocks the conscience is a phrase used as a legal standard in the United States and Canada. An action is understood to "shock the conscience" if it is perceived as manifestly and grossly unjust, typically by a judge.
i found this through google search.
According to my blog dashboard Ed's lawyers spent quite a long time (approximatly 15 minutes) reading the page on Ripoff Report:
https://drjaniceduffy.com/consumer-websites/ripoff-report/#.T4toE6s7jd4
This page has been getting visits from quite a few non US law firms over the past couple of months.
Given their litigious approach towards anyone who stands up against the mongrel I would be worried if I was in the US. But I am not!!
Ripoff Report taunt non-US individuals and businesses with the fact that they have no assets outside the US and therefore victims have no recourse against ror using its Google position and the CDA to ruin their lives. I take the same approach: Ripoff Report cannot sue me because I have no assets in the US and Google cannot sue me because under our law companies with more than 10 employees cannot sue for defamation.
It appears that Ripoff Report has taken a hit with the last Google panda update. I am sure that Ed is madly bashing the keyboard trying to keep the links to the defamatory material at the top of the SERPs for my name (his usual trick). If this is the case he is shooting Google in the foot!
Since the media stories about the case were published my blog traffic has increased significantly. Interestingly, a lot of visits are from law firms - some in the US but most are law firms from canada, UK, AU and NZ. The visits are aimed at finding information on ror because that blog page gets all the hits.I only ever wanted this to all go away - like all his victims. However, at least now by going public the work I have put into my case is accessible to others. My blog also comes is ranked on the first Google page or two for the search terms 'ripoff report defamation' and google ripoff report defamation and also in a search for 'google defamation'.
Ripoff Report failed to mention was in both the UK cases that the defamation was removed within a couple of months and the plaintiffs sued over the time period between notification and removal. My removal requests were refused although I note that since I filed proceedings other non US victims have found google will remove the urls to ror.
Also, it is far less of a stretch to impute responsibility on Google for a notorious website like Ripoff Report than a blog or small website. This applies under the defamation laws of many EU countries as well as the UK and AU.
I think it was Foucault who said that you cannot overthrow the dominant system but it is possible to destabilise it from pockets of revolutionary activity at it weakest points.
If push comes to shove I bet ror will be quietly relegated to the outer limits of cyberspace if it causes google too much embarrassment.
Maybe Magedson got just too cocky with his taunts to non-US victims. Maybe he should have been smarter or grown a soul (a spine wouldn't have gone amiss either). Time will tell.
A step in the right direction, since ROR is here apparently wanting "suggestions" is to have the junk reports removed. This means if someone doesn't have the desire to actually confirm they wrote a real report with an arbitrator and doesn't respond to the request, that report is removed FREE OF CHARGE. That will take care of some of the "spam" and be a good will gesture in the right direction. As it stands someone can write anything and it ranks highly in google for your name. But if you move away from being a spam-friendly organazation and towards BBB-style, this would add legitimacy and you wouldn't have so many people suing you. How much more money could you make if ALL businesses liked you instead of paying enormous legal bills and having so many hate you?
Anyone who reads this page on a regular basis knows that ok120 has posted a LOT of angry comments here….comments attacking ROR and demanding that the law be changed. These comments might sound appealing to some of you, but there’s a lot to this story that ok120 isn’t telling you. Let’s fill in a few blanks…
First of all, ok120’s real name is Nicholas “U”. Nicholas is upset because in 2008 someone posted several complaints about him and his real estate business on the Ripoff Report site. To our knowledge, Nicholas never sued the author(s) of these posts. However, Florida (where he is located) only has a two-year statute of limitations for defamation claims.
As such, even if the CDA was repealed tomorrow, Nicholas would not be allowed to pursue legal action or collect any damages for these posts because his claims have long since expired under Florida law. Does that mean that Florida law is “appalling”? (Keep in mind, despite labeling our business practices “appalling” the Florida court system had no trouble allowing baby-killer Casey Anthony to get away with murder – apparently killing your baby and dumping her body in a swamp so you can go out drinking and partying is acceptable conduct in Florida).
Anyway, Nicholas recently contacted us and demanded to know, as he has repeatedly asked on this page, why ROR changed the name of Google’s co-founder, Sergey Brin after someone posted a report accusing Mr. Brin of various misconduct. This question has been asked and answered so many times it’s sort of like continuing to question Obama’s birth certificate – isn’t there anything more important to discuss? (Nicholas also said he was a Republican running for U.S. Congress, so maybe there actually isn’t anything more important to him).
Well, just to set the record straight – as many people know, back in 2010 there was a lawsuit filed against ROR by a company known as the Asia Economic Institute. Many people on this board gleefully celebrated the fact that this lawsuit would be the very first case EVER against ROR to be set for trial. How exciting! How wonderful!
Not so fast. As it turned out, the plaintiffs in the Asia case lied about the facts of the case. Just as Sarah Bird encouraged people to do, they falsely accused ROR of demanding money to remove their reports and they sued ROR for racketeering/extortion/RICO. After they were caught lying under oath, the case went down in flames and the former plaintiffs and their lawyers have now been sued by ROR in federal court in Arizona. If you’re interested in the status of that case, you can view portions of the court docket here:
https://dockets.justia.com/docket/arizona/azdce/2:2011cv01426/629799/
However, before the first Asia case ended, the plaintiffs deposed Ed Magedson three separate times. During one of those depositions on June 8, 2010 they asked Ed about the report in which the name of Sergey Brin was changed to Soney Bonoi. Like Nicholas, the Asia lawyers thought this was somehow an important issue.
Rather than objecting, refusing to answer, or trying to cover anything up, Ed answered the question and he explained exactly what happened and why it was done. Of course, this information was (and is) totally irrelevant to the question of CDA immunity and it did not prevent the Asia lawsuit from being thrown out of court.
So, if Nicholas or anyone else still wants to know more about the Sergey Brin/Soney Bonoi issue or if you want to read Ed Magedson’s sworn deposition testimony about this, all you need to do is contact Daniel F. Blackert -- he is the California lawyer who filed the Asia lawsuit on behalf of the plaintiffs, and he has a copy of Ed’s deposition. You can find Mr. Blackert’s contact information on the State Bar of California website here:
https://members.calbar.ca.gov/fal/Member/Detail/255021
NOTE – as of May 21, 2012, the address listed for Mr. Blackert is a homeless shelter called the Midnight Mission on San Pedro Street in Los Angeles. Just another sad example of what happens to people who decide to follow the advice offered by Sarah Bird more than four years ago – “I hope that plaintiffs will continue to press the RICO/Extortion combo. This will direct the conversation away from the CDA and focus it on the extortion elements of the case. This is appropriate because this is what makes RipOff Report’s alleged conduct so reprehensible… .”
First of all, I am not whoever you are claiming I am. Nice detective work and weird deflection. BTW, who are you?
Secondly, you admit there are a lot of people who don't understand the issue.
Finally, it doesn't actually address your horrid business model and the reason you are getting sued over and over and over and over and over and over again now does it?
You think "ok120" is the only one angry? LOL. Read these comments. Read the lawsuits. Why don't you stop dancing around the issue... you think they are all out of malice with no foundation? Of course not, that's why you are bothering to reply - because you know they have merit and you will keep getting sued over and over and over and over again.
Why are you content being an operation that supports spam? Why not embrace a business model where you win with businesses and consumers? You would make more money. Illogical.
One other thing....many people on this site have suggested changing the CDA to require websites to remove material if they receive "notice" that a post is false. That might sound like a great idea at first, but the people promoting this change have clearly never run a website that allows 3rd party content.
To help people understand why ROR doesn't remove material after "notice", we have posted a lengthy explanation using an example from an actual removal request:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/94079445/Anatomy-of-a-Ripoff-Report-Removal-Request
The bottom line is that Ripoff Report IS willing to listen to any/all reasonable suggestions for improving our site. Of course, because many (if not all) of our "haters" are just trying to get negative information about them removed from our site, the discussion of often focused solely on permenent removal of posts either based on notice from the company/person targeted in the post, a removal request from the author, or a court order which says that something in a post is false. ALL of these suggestions sound good at first, but ALL of them suffer from major flaws which render them unworkable.
At the end of the day, there is nothing wrong with proposing a change in the law. However, any change we make must be better than the law we currently have. That's what most people don't understand, and until they do, this debate is going to keep going in circles.
Several points:
So you can try to shift the blame & cry that it takes too much work to screen every post, but that is your JOB (or it should be) b/c you decided to run this site.
I would have no problem with someone saying something about me IF I knew who that person was & could tell MY side of the story, but we all know that the people who lie about what happened in a story are NEVER telling the truth.
Whenever I review a company or independent contractor online, I ALWAYS sign my name. I don't hide my identity b/c what I say is the truth as I see it.
Oh & you DID edit one of my rebuttles to a lie from a former client who is an actual fraudster (I think he's still in jail) & took out his REAL name.
Now explain to everyone here why it's OKAY for a poster/reporter to post my FULL REAL name, but when I rebutted & posted HIS real name, you deleted it/blocked it out.
And you call yourself impartial? LOL Yeh RIGHT!
It is no secret that Rexxfield and other reputation management companies has been widely and universally accused of promulgating defamatory content and then extorting money from the victims of the very libel it publishes.
Why is your Reputation being destroyed and what can you do about it?
Fox News exposed two of the fear based public relations campaigns that would help them sell their services: "I would love to run an underground campaign that says, 'Google is trying to destroy your reputation," an executive on the call is heard saying. "I like the idea of, the more dangerous it is, and giving people the scare tactic of, the more exposure you have...the faster it is for your enemies to attack you."
Parents," the executive continued. "Send them a picture of their kid with a gun in his mouth -- Google did it. 'Little Johnny is going to commit Google-Cide. Can you stop it?" Rexxfield aka badforpeople.org and the largest players in online Reputation Management began to create demand by fear based marketing techniques such as Goolge-Cide and an SQL injection code that allowed them to delete content from private servers / blogs and alter the search results of Google, Bing and Yahoo.
If you have had an email or phone call alerting you to something negative posted about you, but declined 'Reputation Management' but within weeks it climbed to the first two-pages of Google, chances are the company calling you is utilizing the illicit SQL hacking code.
The manipulation of the search results of Goolge was to lead for a big pay day via GOOGLE Class action lawsuit. Michael Roberts of Rexxfield continually tried to get me to work with him as a researcher :
Subject: Goolge suit
From: Michael Roberts [redacted]
Date: Fri, Oct 28, 2011 8:13PM
To: Darren Meade [email protected]
" I have attorneys ready to go on Goolge pro bono, top guys very smart. May become class action.
You are welcome to join as you have good cause. There are some big corps who want to participate and may fund the case, including researchers. You OCD with my butterfly brain evangelism would be a good contact as long as emotions can be kept under control."
Michael Roberts of Rexxfield is alleged to have tried to extort Ripoff Report over the SQL illicit code.
In my opinion it would seem Goolge also did not allow Rexxfield to extort him and now he is trying to cause harm because he was refuted and cast the blame for Google-Cide unto the vary entities he tried to extort.
The link to the Fox News story and also my own are available here :https://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/01/20/google-cide-online-reputation-managers-can-wipe-from-web/
https://www.ripoffreport.com/organized-crime/google-cide-exposed/google-cide-exposed-by-the-man-01cd6.htm
In closing, Roberts and his partner Adam Stuart Zuckerman created an algorithm which will map out your entire social network if you visit any web property that they own such as Rexxfield or BadforPeople, be cautious.
I think that Ripoff Report has banned me from commenting on their Facebook page and removed all my comments. I thought that they believed in freedom of speech. Apparently it does not extend to providing true facts about Ripoff Report. I took dated screenshots of everything I wrote so I can prove they removed it.
A new article on my case has been published.
https://www.civilination.org/blog/defamation-victim-janice-duffy-phd-says-online-complaint-sites-can-ruin-peoples-lives/
This organisation, https://www.civilination.org/ is US based and has the mission to ‘foster an online culture where every person can freely participate in a democratic, open rational and truth-based exchange of ideas and information, without fear or threat of being the target of unwarranted abuse, harassment or lies’.
I was honoured that CiviliNation published my interview. They are very proactive in advocacy and education about civil discourse and have experienced and influential people on their boards:
Directors: https://www.civilination.org/about/board-of-directors
Advisors: https://www.civilination.org/about/board-of-advisors
A link to my interview was tweeted by Jimmy Wales (founder of Wikipedia and Director of CiviliNation) to his 6 million followers.
Ripoff Report's charges for the corporate advocacy program range from $7.500 to $20,500 upfront plus monthly fees. These are documented evidence in a US case (the attachment 5 is on this link):
https://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/cacdce/2:2010cv01360/465955/96/5.html
A recent judgment in Florida that described the appalling business practices of Ripoff Report including their failure to remove material even if requested by the authors and even if proven false (p.4):
https://www.3dca.flcourts.org/Opinions/3D11-0707.pdf
An Australian man is also suing Google for defamation. He won against Yahoo in March 2012 over the same material. I am unsure when his trial will start but as far as I can ascertain it is soon.
https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/vic/VSC/2012/88.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=trkulja
Great job InterestedAussie! You are a HERO!
Let me ask you this... why couldn't a US Citizen sue ROR in a foreign country? Seems my information internationally harms me just the way it does in the US. So maybe I feel business interests are hurt in Australia because my name is being drug through the mud from faulty Google Search results. By the way - this is TRUE. If someone google me ANYWHERE they see false info.
What do you say or your attorneys say about this?
Hi ok120,
I am not a hero - just an Australian fighting to get back her right to work. It took me 11 years of studying (while working full time hours) to get my degrees and I will not let anyone take that away from me without a fight. I have worked long hours for the past 2 years trying to deal with this and am finally making headway. I just wanted the defamation removed out of view so I could work. I did not want it to go public but it has and I have to deal with it somehow.
Google did not appeal the December judgment ordering them to file a defence and are now late in filing a response to our request for further particulars.
To answer your question, case law says that the person has a right to sue in the jurisdiction in which they have a reputation. This is a very good overview of the case:
https://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/MurUEJL/2004/26.html
So I don't know how that would apply. I do know that some victims in the US are lobbying politicans and since Google is under the spotlight with the FTC this might be a good time to join with them.
The direction the UK and EU appear to be adopting with respect to regulating the internet is very promising. A group in the UK, KwikChex recently took Tripadvisor to court over unsubstantiated reviews. The point is that the businesses found an organising body to take on their case. I think that would be a valuable approach in the US.
There is a consumer group in the US that is very powerfull and very critical of Google. The person to contact is John Simpson. https://insidegoogle.com/. Why not contact him and explain that because of ror’s high page rank on Google consumers are being given misleading information because companies pay to be ‘verified safe’. I have provided some examples on my blog. The most salient example that I found is Storesonline. This company was prosecuted successfully by our ACCC on three occasions while they were ‘verified safe’ and they have been the defendant in a number of class action cases in the US. This company targets lower income people and, according to our ACCC engages in misleading trade practices. In other words they rip off innocent people. Given ror’s position on Google the question to ask is what is the impact upon consumers? Are they being provided with false information by ror and Google?
Simpson has the ear of congress and actually flew to the EU to give evidence in the anti-trust case against Google. You would need to prepare a briefing for him because he is probably busy but I wonder if he could have a word in the right FTC ears? You never know until you try and although governments and the law are now addressing these issues unfortunately the wheels move slowly and the US has the CDA. Believe me it is far better to get support in high places than to try and litigate. It is not easy to fight one of the most powerfull companies in the world and do it alone as I was at the start of this case.
Never in my life have I encountered such evil as is associated with Ripoff Report. I have read about victims who watched a family business of 30 years standing fall into bankruptcy because of ror and someone who buried their brother because this mongrel destroyed his life.
I have received contacts on my blog from people who have been decimated by Ripoff Report. Some of these people are individuals who have never been in business in their life. Yet, Ripoff Report has destroyed their reputation and livelihood and there is nothing they can do because they are in the US. It is soul destroying to read how people have fought for years just to get back what is rightfully theirs-the right to work!
I can't offer any answers. I wish that there were some answers for US victims. He can't stop me with litigation like he has with other people who have stood up to him.
Magedson taunted non-US victims with the libel tourism law on his website. He takes pleasure in the fact that US laws seemingly made you untouchable. Maybe so, but one of us upped and sued Google. That came out of left field!
I despise you and your perverted use of the doctrine of freedom of speech to fill your pockets at the expense of hard working people and small businesses. Moreover you HURT consumers by verifying safe businesses that are repeatedly investigated, prosecuted and sued for deceptive trade practices. Take for example, Storesonline. Our ACCC successfully prosecuted that company 3 times while you were reassuring unsuspecting consumers that it was safe.
The verb ‘despise' is an extremely strong sentiment for someone like me to feel let alone express. Yet it does not come from my own situation but because of all the pain you have caused people and businesses.
Magedson suggested that he couldn't understand how I had lost my career over posts on Ripoff Report. Only a psychopath would fail to admit damage that he/she has inflicted. Ripoff Report is profiting from destroying innocent people. This is evident by exorbitant costs of the Corporate Advocacy Program (up to $20,500 plus a monthly fee) and the $2,000 'arbitration fee'.
The weird thing is I would have paid it to have the material redacted rather than sue Google. But he did not even bother to reply to my inquiries about it. I guess he thought that I was insignificant and not worth even an email. My career meant everything to me and he took it away. I was really close to ending it all in 2009.
Magedson is well aware that the authors are in the US and I am in Australia so this was yet another attempt to try and 'whitewash' of the issues. The laws that protect him also protect me, but not Google.
Late last year he created another link to the defamation. We know that he exacts revenge on those who challenge him by creating more defamatory posts or making sure that the existing material remains at the top of Google and he tried that in my case.
I am angry but not only for myself. I am angry for all the victims that cannot get justice and those who he has taunted and hurt by increasing the defamation and aggressive litigation.
Nothing.
Ok "Thomas" go back and collect payment from Ed. LOL. You've got to be kidding me. You're a complete lunatic and obviously on the ROR payroll. There is absolutely NOTHING positive about a website which was basically banned by MSN/Yahoo where someone could post that you "Thomas" were a child molester, it ranks #1 in Google for your name .. and there would be NOTHING you could do about it... UNLESS your name is Sergey Brin.
Then you can have your name changed in the report, because you're the founder of Google. Other than that, you're screwed.
So "Thomas" you better hope someone doesn't get ticked off at you and create false reports about you. What would you do then? Pay the extortion artists at ROR to "add something" to your report saying it was false? LOL. You'd be satisfied with that? Give me a break. YOU'RE a joke. And ROR will go down.
It's interesting to me that people who don't have things written about them online in a VERY negative light (not just talking about maybe a negative review, but people claiming you are a fraud, scam, sex offender, child molester, you rip your customers off, you beat women, etc.) shouldn't be judging others.
Thomas if you have very negative things written about you online & you are Mr. perfect & don't get upset, then please show us all these posts about you & how you refrained from defending yourself.
Granted, from what I know of men, maybe there are tons of men who have things written about them & they don't react (men like to hide their feelings & usually don't give a damm unless it's a jealous feeling about their partner), but women aren't created that way. Women are MUCH more sensitive when lies are spread about them.
Some people who don't react may not do so b/c some of the things written are true. I know for me since they aren't true, I care. And yes, if I knew who the person was who is out to get me & my company, I would do everything in my power to bring them down.
But alas, the laws allow people to libel others online & get away with it. They allow them to hide behind proxies & VPNs & they don't question things when the person gives either a fake name or avoids giving a name altogether.
I for one NEVER post a review about a company or IC without giving my first name. I don't exaggerate what happened & I don't lie, but that's just me & I know I'm the minority.
Unfortunately a lot of angry sad vicious people online finally have an outlet to hurt others without being held accountable.
Before when someone wanted to hurt you, they'd have to actually verbally face to face or on the phone spread a rumor that was an outright lie. Eventually the person who was being defamed would find out about it & most times the name of the person who started the lie would come to light. Not always, but eventually one could trace it back.
That was the ONLY way one could defame someone b/c most newspapers won't allow you to write something that could potentially defame someone in print. I know, I once tried to warn people about someone who scammed me & the paper wouldn't take the ad.
NOW & for years now the Internet is the playground for all the liars out there. They don't have to bypass the editorial department to print something that is a lie, they just go onto ROR or start a blog & spread the lies all the while getting away with it.
Many will suggest you go after them via the court system.
Unless you have tons of money to burn & you live in the same country as them, that's next to near impossible to do. Also, even if you go through the court system & they allow you to get the IP address of the person who libeled you, if the person was a criminal type person (most of them are), the chances of their IP address being hidden behind a proxy or VPN is very very high. Or they can go to a public library, University or Internet cafe & register the account & blog & write away. This is obviously a way to avoid detection which is a sign of a criminial type. And this doesn't mean this person has ever been convicted of a crime, it just means their behavior shows they have something to hide b/c they know what they are doing is wrong.
I'll repeate again & again, the laws need to be changed. NOT the free speach laws, but the laws that allow these sites to post lies about other breathing human beings. These sites that hide behind the "it's NOT me, I didn't write the darn thing.". Even Google falls into that category b/c they have blogspot & a lot of people use blogspot to write libelous blogs & Google won't do a thing to stop them.
Why does a newspaper offline care so much whether I place an ad that may cause the paper harm, but online sites aren't held to the same standards?
After I brainstormed changing the laws with someone so it's fair all around, here's what we came up with...
We HAVE to stop making it so easy for people to libel people & companies via the net.
Again, I have nothing against people reviewing companies or independent contrators onilne, but ONLY if they are real reviews that explain exactly what happened & they don't go around calling people names & accusing them of things that clearly have nothing to do with the incident that happened.
About 1-1 1/2 years ago one of the governing bodies in the US took it upon themselves to stop online companies from ONLY posting positive testimonials. They said that you had to post all the testimonials, not just the good ones & you couldn't edit the testimonials.
What I find shocking, is that clearly the people who create these laws care more about making sure companies don't proclaim their product is great without the proclamation being balanced, but I haven't heard ONE WORD about these same governing bodies trying to protect people & companies online from vicious liars out to bring people pain.
Interesting
You know ep2002 if the post by Thomas was written at the instigation of Ed it will provide evidence that the material is defamatory. Google are trying to argue that it is not defamatory or capable of affecting my reputation. They have not pleaded a defence of truth and therefore very few other defences are open to them. I have documented it and sent it to my lawyers.
Thomas, I did not write most of what was attributed to me on Ripoff Report. I was a consumer who posted on Ripoff Report in good faith and used my correct information in the login. My mobile number was posted on the reports and it was unlisted. I did put it in the login information to ripoff Report along with my address because, at the time I did not know about their businesses practices.
One of the reports supposedly written by me says I have dylexia. I guess that this was used as a way of accounting for the different writing styles of the posts attributed to me. I do not have dysexia.
Ed has admitted that he passes on consumer details and I am not the only one who has been the the subject of revenge because I posted on that website in good faith.
I created my blog because the material was not removed and I knew it would hit the media because the courts had given permission to the newspaper to view the files.
I can prove that Google removed my blog and put it back and prior to that the blog stats showed multiple visit from google in the IP log files.
People such as yourself are the reason I took action. Google have not pleaded truth in their defence and yes, although taking action was not what I wanted (in fact I notified Google for 18 months before I filed proceedings) it makes me feel better to litigate when i read posts by people such as yourself who make judgments without a knowledge of the facts..
One request Thomas: You wrote" You have also posted many comments on this page which seem to just be made-up stories. Spreading lies and gossip to gain sympathy?" Could you please indicate which comments were 'made-up' stories? I would like you to be specific because you have (perhaps unwittingly) used the same tactic as Ripoff Report has used on others that challenge them - attempt to further damage their reputation.
If you refer to the ‘made-up stories’ I am happy to point out the evidence to support them. In the first instance I refer you to this deposition in which Ed admits to passing on information about consumers:
https://www.reportsripoff.com/pdf/miniscript.pdf
And this court case in which the judge referred to evidence in discovery that Ripoff Report tried to sell lists of consumers to class action attorneys for $800,000.
https://www.citmedialaw.org/sites/citmedialaw.org/files/2005-08-05-Magedson's%20Motion%20to%20Dismiss%20for%20Lack%20of%20Jurisdiction.pdf (p 7).
Also read comments on this petition in which consumers who posted on Ripoff Report state that their details were provided to the subject of their reports:
https://www.gopetition.com/petitions/remove-rip-off-report-from-google/signatures.html
In fact, if you read all of the comments a true picture emerges of Ripoff Report. This was summarised by a judge recently (p. 4).
https://www.3dca.flcourts.org/Opinions/3D11-0707.pdf
Upon further reflection about your post it does seem that you are Ed or one of his cronies because his response to critics is to further damage their reputation.
However, everything I wrote about Ripoff Report and Google is backed up with evidence so if I have written something which is ‘made-up’ I will indeed admit it and issue a retraction.
I await your response detailing the ‘made-up’ stories.
One of Google’s main defences has been that no-one other than myself has viewed the defamation. As I said they did not plead truth but they did plead that the material was not viewed by anyone and it is not defamatory. You have provided further evidence that it has (and can) be viewed and associated with my name on the internet. I appreciate that you referred to the defamatory paragraph in your post because there therefore cannot be any question that it was viewed and re-communicated.
I do suspect that you may have been paid by Magedson or under his influence. But if we assume that you are an independent person (as you are trying to make the readers believe) who has viewed and re-communicated the defamation this proves my point. In fact, six of the 31 imputations that we have listed in our court action are repeated in the paragraph in this post.
Thomas' posting wreaks of sock puppeteering for Ed Magedson the owner RipOffReport.com. This of course is not new to him, he currently (or recently) has Darren Meade working to throw his scrutineers under the bus (like me). For more information of Ed Magedson's creation of “independent outcries” against his detractors, and watch dogs may wish to visit the website I recently established to expose some of his practices:
https://badforpeople.org/ripoffreport-revolt/
Respectfully submitted,
Michael Roberts
Thanks for the above post.
Well, you know Thomas, our nation is built on something that you cannot understand- a fair go for everyone. You know what, at the end of the day Magedson might just hasten his own demise from Google. After all his website is almost obsolete and replaced by Google places. The stupid irony is that both Google and Ripoff Report could have made this case all go away quietly by removing the defamation. I did not go public until 9 months after we filed proceedings and I would have been just as happy to get on with my life.
Clearly Magedson thought he could treat us Aussies like his US victims. My case will be a long fight and it will be, unfortunately, it very public. Hopefully, in the end Google will look for someone to blame and that will be Ripoff Report!. He will become what he tried to make of me and other innocent consumers: collateral damage.
G'day,
If you have 9 min. to spare, would you watch this video on Google's love affair with RipOffReport.com and let me know what you think? If you agree with it, please pass it on to your followers?
If you are a SEO practicioner:
My company does not provide SEO services anymore, and we are not really a ORM company either. We simply track down the bad guys, and provide litigation support and forensic support for attorneys in the middle of defamation lawsuits. As such, you can comfortably embed the video in your pages if you'd like to use it to help your potential clients understand the problem.
https://youtu.be/tMTCCT_NtBk
Cheers,
Michael
www.BadForPeople.org
MY NAME IS DARREN MEADE, AND I AM A DEAD MAN. Or so I was told when I refused to go along with a so-called "reputation management" company's plan to use weapons-grade hacking technology to help fraudsters, quacks, and other scumbags avoid being exposed online.
Imagine: You're a successful cosmetic surgeon and a patient dies in your care. It's a terrible tragedy, but you've got to move on. Two years later, complaints about you begin to surface on the consumer advocacy websites, charges that you've never been accredited as a plastic surgeon, hold no surgical designation, and have no hospital privileges—all of which are true, culminating in the State medical board finding you "incompetent," displaying "disgraceful, dishonorable or unprofessional" conduct in your care of five different patients, including the 32-year-old mother you left dying in your recovery room while you went out to dinner. The downward spiral accelerates when the information hits RipoffReport.com, and consequently, page 1 of Google.What's a quack to do? If you're —the real-life Toronto physician thumbnailed above—you contract with Michael Roberts and the "reputation management specialists" at Rexxfield & Think Basis who offer you a way to not just bury bad press on the search engines, but make it disappear completely. As in abracadabra. Presto. How do I know this? We'll get to that later. The bigger question is, how is it even possible? In geek-speak, it's called a SQL injection hack. This particular variety was created to do a number of things, including the de-indexing (hiding) of specific pages from search engines.So with the click of a button, the meddlesome Ripoff Reports Dr. Yazdanfar blamed for a 50% drop in revenue were gone. At a price tag of $18,000, the magic show didn't come cheap, but the truth was far more expensive. For consumers, it's an frontal assault on our First Amendment right to speak the truth; for companies like Rexxfield, it's a veritable gold mine. A forensic audit of RipoffReport.com confirmed thousands of individual reports were removed by SQL injection attacks. Were all of them crooks with deep pockets Dr. Yazdanfar? Perhaps not, but even the conservative math is staggering. No matter how you slice it, there is a long line of people who will pay handsomely for their own private kill-switch on Internet free speech. Even so, every good arms dealer knows if the market isn't big enough (and it never is), you have to create new ones. Rexxfield has a plan for that, using automated technology to generate defamatory content about individuals and corporations that value their reputations—the bigger the better. We're talking about a whole new strain of WMDs—weapons of mass defamation. Think about it: What if allegations of pedophilia were to pop up the next time you Google your name? Or obscene stories about your wife or your daughter? When we're talking about the potential ruin of your career, your marriage, or your child's future, money is no object—and these predators know it. When the time is right, you'll get an email and it'll be Rexxfield to the rescue—antidote in one hand, anthrax in the other.
FOX NEWS WROTE : "Listen to the audio recording for yourself here -
In an audiotape obtained by FoxNews.com of a meeting that included Roberts, Meade and others, those present are heard discussing a public relations fear campaign that would help them sell their services to worried parents.
“I would love to run an underground campaign that says, ‘Google is trying to destroy your reputation,’” an executive on the call is heard saying. “I like the idea of, ‘the more popular you are, the more dangerous it is,’ and giving people the scare tactic of, ‘the more exposure you have … the faster it is for your enemies to attack you.’”
“I think there’s a whole other campaign where we can break the parents,” the executive continued. “Send them a picture of their kid with a gun in his mouth -- Google did it. ‘Little Johnny is going to commit Google-cide. Can you stop it?’”
Read more: https://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/01/20/google-cide-online-reputation-managers-can-wipe-from-web/#ixzz1uEfxn41T
https://www.ripoffreport.com/organized-crime/google-cide-exposed/google-cide-exposed-by-the-man-01cd6.htm
The Audio Recording in the Link Above will take 60-90 seconds to play.
Look, I know I can't expect you to take my word for all this, partly because the Rexxfield gang have already made good on their first threat to destroy my reputation online. Go ahead—Google my name. It's mud if you don't already know me. But unfortunately for these guys, their death threats aren't the only thing I have on tape. I also have over 20 additional hours of recordings—all consensual—that tie the entire operation together. They're now hosted offshore, beyond the reach of Zuckerman's goon attorneys, backed with detailed instructions in the event of my untimely demise. THIS IS A CALL FOR HELP. I am literally putting my life on the line to expose not just another Internet scam, but a threat against the very fabric of our society: The right to speak the truth and be heard. Rexxfield is censoring the Internet to create business for it's multiple Reputation Management store-fronts.I only hope someone hears me—before it's too late.
Rexxfield and Michael Roberts is Michael of BadforPeople.org
Think Basis pays a 30% commission to all SEO work Rexxfield refers. In my opinion you embed his video onto your site and he will refer them for SEO to Think Basis.
He is also harvesting data of anyone visiting his website.
Rexxfield developed a marketing plan that included: (1) selecting targeted persons and companies who would be concerned about their online reputation, (2) intentionally posting negative and disturbing information of the internet about the target, (3) and contacting those targets to sell them the Rexxfield product to fix the damage that Rexxfield itself had caused itself. For example, in one recorded meeting they are heard discussing the proposed marketing strategy of sending the parents of "Little Johnny" a fabriacted picture of Little Johnny with a gun in his mouth. See Fox News.
Rexxfield operatives discussed taking list and having an auto-bot place the names onto Ripoff Report to create more customers for the SQL hacking code removal.
Rexxfield wanted to destroy the business model of Ripoff Report and take over the space.
Rexxfield began to manipulate search results with the SQL hacking code for wealthy clients to cover up medical malpractice deaths and tamper with juries.
Rexxfield began to manipulate search results to create false data for a class action lawsuit they plan to file against Google.
Darren Meade works for Ed Magedson of RipOffReport,com. A comprehensive response to his allegations against me are located here:
Response to Darren M Meade
And a 60-Minutes show about my ex-wife's murder conviction and who Magedson & Meade are trying to help get released to torment me, is located here:
60-Minutes- Tracey Richter, the Murderer Ed Magedson is helping.
A 30 second video where Darren Meade reveals his character in his own words, he is describing his last smear campaign victim.
For anyone who is interested in "tracking down the bad guys", you do NOT need to pay a third party consultant for this.
If you have been targeted by a false report and you want to pursue legal action against the author it is NOT NECESSARY to pay someone like "Michael" to help you....at least with respect to obtaining IP address and other information from us.
Contrary to popular myth, Ripoff Report DOES NOT condone the misuse of our site by anyone who posts false statements of fact. For that reason, we have tried to make it as easy as possible to issue a subpoena for information about the identity of the authors of reports. Although there are some necessary hurdles that must be cleared first, the process is not that complicated and anyone with a valid claim should have no trouble meeting the applicable standards.
For instructions on how to serve a subpoena on us, you can visit this link which explains our policies and procedures (which we will be updating soon in an effort to make the process even easier):
https://www.ripoffreport.com/ConsumersSayThankYou/FalseReport.aspx
As you can tell from the 745 comments here and the numerous international lawsuits against you.. we have tracked down the bad guy... its YOU.
1. Most victims want the material removed because that is the only way to mitigate the damage. As Ripoff Report have proven it is pointless trying to litigate to get justice in the US.
2. Ripoff Report taunts non-US users with the US libel tourism law so it knows that non-US victims cannot take legal action against the original authors.
3. Ed admitted in a deposition that he provides information about consumers and several victims have discovered he sold off their information to the subject of the complaints. I think Ripoff Report provided information to the defendants in my case (who did not have a court order). Either Ripoff Report or the defendants did not comply with the correct legal procedure. My guess is both. This is not surprising.
4. Refusing to remove false material IS condoning the publication of false statements of fact!
5. A post was published by the original authors of the defamation urging people to harass me. This happened and I BEGGED Ripoff Report and its attorneys to at least remove my phone number. I did not receive a reply from either and I was hospitalised from stress. I recovered but it took awhile. I have medical reports from that period which we will admit into evidence. They did not bother to comply with their statements that they do not condone harassment why would anyone believe Ripoff Report would comply with a subpoena from a non-US court. We have no choice but to sue Google. By the way search engine data shows that 97% of visitors to Ripoff Report get there from Google domains.
6. I really think that Ripoff Report made a REALLY big mistake by publishing defamatory and false material on non-US victims and I am not actually referring to my case or Michael's case. I will post about this as soon as I can but maybe some action will occur soon that will be the final nail in the coffin.
Ripoffreport said:
"we have tried to make it as easy as possible to issue a subpoena for information about the identity of the authors of reports."
Really Ed? (or is your agent Darren Meade posting in your behalf?)
Then why must a victims file an action in your back yard in order to subpoena said information, per the link you posted above:
"Obtain a subpoena from an Arizona court (preferably the Maricopa County Superior Court in Phoenix)"
Why don't you simply honor subpoenaes from any juristiction form which you derive GOOGLE AdWords® revenue? Because you know most victims can't affort the legal costs.
You may have fooled plenty of hack journalists in the past into thinking you are a champion of the community, but the jig is up, but as you say on your website,
"Don't let them [YOU] get away with it.® Let the truth be known!™"
Are you worried yet Ed?
VIDEO: Why Google Loves Defamation & Displays It On Page 1... Especially RipOffReport.com
BadForPeople.org Join the RipOffReport Revolt
Sincerely,
Michael Roberts
Mr. Roberts,
I am not Darren Meade and I'm not Ed. I understand that you have your own agenda, and like everyone else, you are entitled to your own opinion (though you are not entitled your own facts). I am not here to debate the validity of your opinion, but I do feel that it’s important to provide accurate facts to those who need reliable information.
With that in mind, you asked a direct question -- "Then why must a victims [sic] file an action in your back yard in order to subpoena said information, per the link you posted above”.
Here’s my direct answer.
First of all, although we strongly prefer to receive an Arizona subpoena issued by an Arizona court, depending on the circumstances we MAY choose to voluntarily accept a subpoena from another jurisdiction. The reason for this is NOT as nefarious as you might think.
Here’s the issue – some parties who send us subpoenas clearly have legitimate claims (assuming the reports at issue are false). On the other hand, some parties who send us subpoenas clearly do NOT have legitimate claims (I will be posting more about this shortly).
Each time we receive a subpoena, we perform an initial review which looks at several different factors to determine if we think the plaintiff appears to have a legitimate claim. If the answer is YES, then our policy is generally to notify the author of the subpoena and request that they respond with evidence to support their statements. If the author does not respond, then we usually WILL HONOR the subpoena even if it’s not from an Arizona court. This is the same policy used by most major websites.
However, we sometimes receive subpoenas which are clearly NOT seeking information for legitimate reasons. The most common example would be where the report involved contains nothing but the author’s opinions. In a free society like the United States, no matter how rude or offensive they may be, opinions are protected speech regardless of whether they are positive or negative. We also often see subpoenas which relate to extremely old reports for which the applicable statute of limitations has expired. And, believe it or not, we also sometimes receive subpoenas which relate to reports that are demonstrably 100% true (again, I will explain more about this issue shortly).
So, imagine for a moment that we receive a subpoena which is obviously improper for whatever reason, and imagine that this subpoena was issued by a court outside of Arizona. Despite being based solely in Arizona, this means that if we wanted to contest the subpoena, Xcentric would be required to spend thousands of dollars hiring outside counsel in the jurisdiction where the subpoena was issued. Of course, even if we fight the subpoena and the court concludes that it was unlawful, the law would not permit us to recover the costs/fees we spent fighting the bogus subpoena.
This is why we strongly prefer (but do not necessarily require) an Arizona subpoena. Because Xcentric is an Arizona-based company and has a legal department in Arizona, this means we can, when necessary, dispute subpoenas in the Arizona courts quickly and inexpensively. Is that unfair? You are entitled to that view if you wish, but keep in mind – under Arizona’s rules if we fight a subpoena without a legitimate basis, we could be ordered to pay the plaintiff’s legal fees. Thus far, that’s never happened. I think that suggests that when we choose to fight a subpoena, we normally have a solid basis for doing so.
Oh, and one final point – legally (unless we are willing to comply voluntarily, as we often do) a plaintiff who wants to obtain records from Arizona must obtain an Arizona subpoena to do so. This same rule applies in all 50 states, so it is hardly unfair for us to ask people to comply with the law in this manner.
What I find amazing is that you will go to such legnths to keep all posts up & running whether they are true or not & that you will give the poster the benefit of the doubt in all cases. Why don't you require proof from the poster before allowing the post to go live????
Then you make the person or company being defamed spent money, time & energy to prove the posts are false & even then you don't believe them when they went to such lengths & provided you with a subpoena.
It is clear to me that you feel you are god like & have the right to strike down everyone you automatically feel is doing something wrong.
It also feels to me that you think (you, Ed & whomever else works at ROR) you guys are the only nice ultruisitic people in this world & everyone else has done something nasty & deserves to be strung up like a witch & burned at the stake.
I've dealt with other complaint sites & I've NEVER gotten the feeling that they think they are better than everyone else & that everyone is automatically guilty until they prove their innocence.
Very interesting psychopath you guys have.
While you may have started out trying to do the right thing, you long since crossed that line years ago & considering you seem to relish in people's pain, I doubt you ever intended to do the "right thing."
Your response illustrates the error in your philosphy -- Ripoff Report is JUST A FORUM. We run the site but we don't create the content posted there. You mistakenly ignore this fact, and you make no distinction between the forum and the content. As a result everything else you say is wrong.
We don't create reports. We don't fact check reports. Yet you are proceeding as if everything posted on the site was written by US. This is why your logic is so wrong. The mere fact that we're trying to get people to understand this distinction doesn't mean we're "arrogant" about it; we're just telling them how it really is. Why do you have such a problem with that? Should we continue to give people false hope (as many on this site have done?)
The way that ROR is operated is no different than SEOmoz. Does Sarah Bird "require proof" from all you guys before allowing you to post here? Of course not. If she did, only a handful of the 700+ comments on this page would have made the cut. Hell, Sarah Bird didn't even fact check her own article...so if that's a crime, send her to jail.
Do you see the point? You are blaming the messenger for the content of the message which someone else created. In this way, you are directing your anger and frustration at the WRONG PARTY. Seriously. Stop and think about that.
And of course you're right that ROR is evil because sometimes people have to spend money dealing with a report -- either because they choose to participate in our arbitration program or because they decide to use the courts instead. Do you think that courts are free? Are lawyers free? Do you work for free?
It's time to stop polluting the world with these misguided views. It would be great if the world was always perfect and fair. But it's not, and pretending otherwise helps no one.
YES -- inaccurate information being posted online IS a serious problem and YES we need to find a solution that strikes the correct balance between offering relief to victims of false statements while ensuring that truthful information is not removed. Think that's easy? Think again. Instead of finding a better solution, you choose to place so much anger and attention on attacking the forum host. That has never worked in the past, and it will never work in the future.
Megaupload and rapidshare and other sites like that were "just a forum" of sorts and talk to the FBI about what happened to the owners of those sites. Your time is coming. Napster was "just a forum". Your argument is bullshit and that is why you're going to get your ass sued continuously until you go out of business and that's why you are bothering to post on this thread. You know this thread threatens your "business".
There is also reasons why you do not answer various points brought up in this thread:
-> Why did you change Sergey Brin's name in his report? What deal did you make with Google as its the only search engine where you actually show up. Answer the question.
-> Address all the lawsuits pending. None of them have any validitly? So they are all just upset enough to spend thousands and thousands for no reason? You think they want to sue you just out of malice? No they are suing you because your "business" is complete horse-shit and its the same reason why you're not going to last.
Ripoff Report!
The imputations in our case, derived from your website (and others that linked to it) say that I was a ripoff, fraud, hacked computers and stalked etc. These are false so the defendants can gather and trace evidence but the reality is that they are not true. Even you admit that you publish false material. Honestly, I don't think even the defendants believe they are are true because they have not pleaded truth as a defence.
Our defamation laws are different to the US and any organisation that participates in the transmission of defamatory matter is liable. I pleaded with you to remove them. I was harrassessed and threatened because you published my phone number and identification details. I begged you to at least remove those. You did not even respond to my emails or phone calls.
I was a consumer on your website. I posted in good faith, albeit, naively. I BEGGED you to remove the material. This was before I was aware that you sell off the details of people who register on your website.
Note that the judge in this case, George S May International accepted discovery that you tried to sell lists of consumers to class action attorneys for $800,000 per year (see p. 4).
https://www.paladinpi.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Selling-law-suits.pdf
As you point out on your website, it is pointless suing you. I just wanted the defamatory and false material removed and to get on with my life. It was a last resort but filing action against Google, under our laws, was the only option.
Thank you for your kind words Smithy. I am so very sorry that you have been hurt by these monsters - Ripoff Report and Google!
How completely, totally wonderful! And, I am so glad for the comments of you both. No, a consumer reports site should NOT have personal reports. Individuals cannot even make them money. We do not qualify for the CAP and I cannot see how we would qualify for the new arbitration program. And if we did, then how would that work? Even at the BBB, who I have no love for, if the complaint is proven to have no basis, it is taken off. If it is shown to be for defamatory purposes only they do not accept it, and you cannot go there and put a hundred complaints. They govern that. But they do not have clean hands either. If a company has a bad rating or is beginning to get one, they can bring the rating up by joining the BBB.
And yes, ppl as human beings do things in crisis' that they regret, they hurt themselves and others, they react to information that they learn is not true, or they retaliate for things that they are angry about or that they are jealous over. Personal reports are only for bathroom stalls, not cyber walls of a consumer advocacy site. ROR is a joke.
I hope that you win, I hope that you bust their asses wide open. If just one case somewhere would get through. I wish that one huge law firm would take this on, I don't think they would be scared off by the tactics used, afraid that they, themselves, were going to be sued by the ROR team, if that is what is happening, me not knowing that is what is going on for sure and such.
We need a champion, a hero who will be willing to go all the way. A judge who will take this on and really look at it. How can one man, or company break so many laws and even the law that they hide behind and get away with it, for years? And what an eye opener for you, huh? That has been our premise all along. If you see a company that you KNOW is exactly what has been reported, and you know that they had to have joined the CAP to get the rave review from Ed at the beginning of their reports, all they did was buy out of the reports, nothing changed. It is fraud. Did Ed negotiate with the person that committed suicide? Did he negotiate with anyone? For the money that the CAP charges, isn't that what is supposed to be done, or does Ed call them to the principals office and chide them, they write 100 times on the chalk board, I will be a good company, and that covers it? it is bullshit.
I, personally, have given up hope, I am sorry to say. This has taken a huge toll on me. I was not well when this all started and my health has deteriorated. I had to leave it be. It still is a big deal. So much so, I do not want to be online. I have had my email spoofed, and it appears that I am constantly sending out viruses, I have contacted the FBI. I filed two reports with no response, so I called them. They are making a decision as to whether they will take it on or not. This started, strangely, when I was going to help as a witness for a plaintive in their suit against ROR, and I am sure it has nothing to do with that. I am just saying. I cannot stop the emails. But, if the FBI takes this on, I am full steam ahead to take them down. They have used this virus to destroy several of my friends computers. Now, everyone knows not to click on the hyperlink. But, not in the beginning.
Happy wrangling. I am rooting for you all.
Opinions on this??????
Arizona Revised Statutes 13-3004
Sending threatening or anonymous letter; classification:
A person who knowingly sends or delivers to another a letter or writing, whether subscribed or not, threatening to accuse him or another of a crime, or to expose or publish his failings or infirmities, and a writer or sender of an anonymous letter or writing calculated to create distrust of another or tending to impute honesty, drunkenness or any crime or infirmity to the receiver of the letter or any other person is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor.
https://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=2072&page=4
I have found a rip off report for my business and the customer location listed does not match any previous customers and the report is 2 sentences long. Which I have came to believe that it was a competitor posting this due to our website being the dominant one in the industry. I have contacted Rip off Report several times and have heard nothing back from them. There has to be something I can do about this without breaking the law. If I have to I will start a petition to remove this website period. I'm also willing to fund a google campaign >$12K to get the signatures. Let me know if something like that is legal and info on how to go about it. Thanks Jason
Well I'll sign the petition (let me know if you want to know the petition software I use), but $12k for AdWords? That seems a bit excessive, what kws are you planning on using?
You really think Google would take them down just b/c of a petition?
Michelle
I will sign it jason we have seven reports on our company not one is from a client!!!
And now they are duplicating the site into the complaintsboard.com and ozripoff.com
Filthy way to conduct business we were in contact with the ripoffreport and they made promises of removing illegal defamatory content etc
then all of a sudden another three reports appeared on our company...
I have an idea on how to do some payback to ripoffreportand would like to get some advice from the SEO experts here.
I am aware of the google double content rule that makes google punish websites for double content,for example if i copy entire wikipedia pages to my website google will punish me for that with low rankings.so far if this is correct then my question is:
WHAT IFi start to copy the content of entire wikipedia pages into the ripoffreport complaints i want to remove from google. will that not cause google to lower the rankings of the specific ripoffreport(having it penalized for for double content).of course ED assmanson and his ripoff ghouls team will eventually remove the double content bogus comment but if each of usdoes this on the ripoffreports he finds offending he will have a lot of work , and each time they removewe can always add new copied content again.what do you guys think?
another blackhat idea add posts that send to a link that is for a blacklisted/spam containing sitewhich may cause google to penalize the webpage(and eventually the entire ripoffreport website).
any seo expert here can give more insights on this?
Has anyone heard of these guys? I was told NOTHING can remove what's online, so I don't know how these guys can do this... (they contacted me)
If you are tired of losing business due to anegative link, we can help - usually in less than a week.We have reasonable and realistic rates, posted on our website.We look forward to working with you.Contact us via phone, email, or chat online.Phone - 877-553-9066Email - [email protected]Web - https://shmli.com/7rbdBest 2U in 2010The Team at Reputation GuyRepairing Online Reputations Since 2007
Hmm, looks like the line breaks didn't work.
Also they say they can't disclose who they have helped b/c it wouldn't be fair to them, but you would think the companies would WANT to advertise that they are finally free of the ROR crap.
Michelle
There you go Michelle. It is the same thing with the Class Action ppl who do not want their names known. Imagine an attorney who is bringing a class action but wants to remain silent in the process. That makes no sense at all. A class action lawsuit has commercials on TV, articles in all the major newspapers, online on the sites most frequented. There has to be teeth to bring a suit. So, when someone comes a fishing to find out what you have and what you know and how the perpetrator has handled your complaint, did they respond, how did they respond, did you keep that information, etc., why you gonna tell that secret person goin "pssst" from the closet? I ain't. Come into the light, reverend Baker.
As far as I know, all that they can do is "build" you a pile of searchable items so that if and when you are googled, your ROR report is buried so deep, it will seem to be gone. As far as I know, it does not go away. If that is true, all it would take is some nasty tweaking by your enemy, some rebutting, the original report maker adding to the report, etc, to get it to the front of the pile, Having it searched over and over, may do it as well, since it's popularity may be linked to it's "hits". Tip toe to this. Any time there are horrors like ROR, there are ppl who spring up with solutions but I do not know of any true solutions short of changing the law, shutting down ROR, getting a judge to sit still long enough to really get the impact of the nastiness of this site, how many lives and businesses have been destroyed, and then take it to task.
I do not think it will matter to anyone until they are affected. And that is sad but true. I saw a report on a CA senator. I contacted his office and initially they were really interested in helping but are dodging me like the plague now. I am hoping they will still help. It is going to take a personal experience with this man, this site, before anyone cares.
There are reports on ROR about Judges, Lawyers, people in positions of power. I have sent them emails, but what if we all did that? Sheriffs, policemen, politicians. Search the site for reports that are slanderous to them. Not the ones that think that Judge No Good is an alien from Mars. There is a lot of them. But the really important ones that would make the individuals stand up and take notice. Everyone is saying: "What can I do". It is a start.
Congressmen. Senators. Mayors. Governors. Doctors. Policemen, and Firemen, their Chiefs and Sheriffs. GO. You can search easier on that new scam site.
Don't trust them, they're scam artists. Reputation Armor nearly stole $1,000 for non performance stating the same claim. They can't do it, period. Reputation Defender is the most reputable company, but they have super limitations as well.
Consumers should also beware, that even telling the truth could result in lawsuit threats...my wife used to sell sex toys from this what we thought was a pretty good sex toy company. I found that some of their junk toys were not made by them, but in fact nothing more then wholesale junk toys that they just added to their collection, well, I put our experiences online about this company, and it was all true, I got constant emails from their reps, and I was notified by two attorneys that If I did not remove the website, then I would be sued...I was presured by my wife to remove the website.
never be afraid to stand up to the truth, and even if it is the truth does not protect you from a lawsuit. A company that has money, can easily write off a few thousand dollars to take you to court. they can easily bankrupt and attempt to discredit you.
Whoever has the bigger lawyer will most likely win.
bravo!!!!!!
California, similarly weigh in favor of transfer. For the reasons set
forth herein, the Court finds that Defendant has clearly established that
for the convenience of the parties and witnesses, and in the interests of
justice, this action should be transferred to the Northern District of
California.
The case you are referring to: Cats and Dogs Animal Hospital, Inc. -v- YELP!, Inc
was closed 05/03/2010
Maybe it will hit the Northern District
California, similarly weigh in favor of transfer. For the reasons set
forth herein, the Court finds that Defendant has clearly established that
for the convenience of the parties and witnesses, and in the interests of
justice, this action should be transferred to the Northern District of
California.
The case you are referring to: Cats and Dogs Animal Hospital, Inc. -v- YELP!, Inc
was closed 05/03/2010
Maybe it will hit the Northern District
Trust me, the case against Yelp is not "closed". Also please see following comments:
The solution is for ROR to be held to task as Yelp has. There is an article entitled "Attorneys Declare Victory over Yelp" as Yelp CHANGED their business practices as a result of this class action lawsuit. The attorneys I've cited have been quoted on national news and appeared on TV Shows. Trust me "dismissed" or not, it CHANGED Yelp.
https://techcrunch.com/2010/04/06/yelp-class-action/
ROR should and will have the same fate, or it will be bankrupt. However, we still need to create a fuss.
Again, actual solutions would be defined as the end of ROR screwing people and businesses over - period. That's obviously why there are hundreds of comments here and that's why you were likely hired to do PI work, yes? So that's the solution. If you have any ACTUAL solutions to help ACTUALLY stop them from screwing us over, that's what I mean - post them up.
Trust me, the case against Yelp is not "closed". Also please see following comments:
The solution is for ROR to be held to task as Yelp has. There is an
article entitled "Attorneys Declare Victory over Yelp" as Yelp CHANGED
their business practices as a result of this class action lawsuit. The
attorneys I've cited have been quoted on national news and appeared on
TV Shows. Trust me "dismissed" or not, it CHANGED Yelp.
https://techcrunch.com/2010/04/06/yelp-class-action/
ROR should and will have the same fate, or it will be bankrupt.
However, we still need to create a fuss.
Again, actual solutions
would be defined as the end of ROR screwing people and businesses over -
period. That's obviously why there are hundreds of comments here and
that's why you were likely hired to do PI work, yes? So that's the
solution. If you have any ACTUAL solutions to help ACTUALLY stop them
from screwing us over, that's what I mean - post them up.
Ok, the deal for Class Actions is that there is one lead plantiff, who doles out funds, but he also gets the lions share of any return as well. There are attorneys who will take a class action with little money up front if they have a slam dunk, because it will be a big money pay out. The problem for ROR is that it has been sued so many times and I am not aware of any great losses, maybe some settlements, but you cannot squeeze blood from a turnip. Ed has to be broke. My understanding is he is close to bankruptcy. We see Class Action as a wonderful alternative but in actuality, Ed has nothing to go after. If he were AT&T, that would be a horse of a different color. Any attorney who would take this will want a huge upfront payment and I do not have it. Do you, any of you, or do we collectively? I have yet to see a rally for that on this or any other site.
Unfortunately. I think most ppl are waiting out his run, because he is on the run. He cannot do this indefinately. He is broke. And, his health is being greatly affected. Standing on his principles, which are no principles at all, will be the demise of him. Had he been willing to listen to his lawyers, fellow constituents, the ppl who are being unfairly wronged with proof that the posts were lies and done the right thing, he may have had a gold mine on his hands. But instead, he clenched his jaw, and said no, and acted like a child and it will be the end of him. He lost his humanity somewhere along the way. I don't know why. I almost feel badly for him, this is so far out of control. One of my friends who has been affected has reports put on ROR about her or her company every single day with fake personas. Every single day. The reports are ridiculous. There is nothing reputable about ROR or the way it has been allowed to be run.
I know that Ed reads these and all I can say to you Ed is you have one life and you are not living anymore. You are dodging bullets and you live in fear for your life. How in the world is this worth that to you? How. Turn the switch off. Start something that is positive and you can enjoy, this is NOT it. We are the same age, you and I, and we both were hippies at the same time. I see you. I don't understand you. This is not something that you can possibly believe in deep inside your heart. You are lost.
I
Don't forget about Google's possible involvement. A recent case in New York against ROR also named Google as a defendant ($11 Million Dollar Suit). And they do have $.
I completely agree. SOmeone who I am sure I dont know posted this wrong and misleading thing about me and I have no way of contacting them to remove it.. This is ridiculous! https://www.ripoffreport.com/realtors/anna-kulbinski/anna-kulbinski-overrepresen-c6543.htm Simply not true.
A word to the wise, do not rebut it, do not react to it, do not google it. Do not get your friends and cohorts to rebut it. Leave it alone and it may just wash away. I don't know. It may fall onto page five of Google. It MAY. But if you respond to it, it will for sure never go away. Ever. Of that I am absolutely sure.
Hi all,
Great post but may as well start another one on complaintsboard.com also run by Xcentric. They are now inviting people to slander our company using text cut and paste from the ripoffreport site. Completely contradicts the privacy policy. Ed Magedson and Xcentric must really hate the world. ripoffreport xcentric complaintsboard.com ed magedson or whoever is behind it have almost succeeded in turning our business into a pile of rubble by misleading all clients who look for our website on google. Is there any way anyone knows of or any companies who will take a case against the ripoffreport xcentric or complaintsboard.com for free? we have no money left...
Or an address to visit where i might meet a representative of these sites/ companies in person? I would have to save for the airfares by getting a job at macdonalds first of course...
Sarah already pointed out that censoring peoples views and opinions completely (i.e. deleting or not allowing opposing comments) on a site which is comprised of user generated content does not cause them to lose section 230 immunity, I can see how they've gone so long without major penalties and/or a solid lawsuit pulled against them.
Devious/Dirty as it is, you can't argue, it's an interesting business model.
Hello everyone,
There is a new site that may have great intentions to be a place for people to go and find/report scams but they have made a huge mistake. They are linking back to and using reports from ROR, which invalidates their reports. At least one poster on there, InfoBot is doing this. InfoBot may be the owner or person who started the site, they have posted like thousands of scams in a very short period of time which invalidates it as well. No one knows of that many scams personally that fast.
Needless to say, they put my ROR on there and they did not have to do that. What a personal revenge defamation report that says that I am mentally ill and should be in a hospital, which is filed under mental health, has to do with a scam site, is beyond me and again, invalidates the site.
So, here is a link.
https://www.scamfound.com/
You may be able to find some help there, but be careful, they are not showing very good judgement to date. Discrement, guys, discernment. Where has good common sense gone? Oh yeah, it went away when people no longer had to sign their effing names. This reminds me of Halloween. At Halloween parties ppl seem to let their hair down a lot more, the mask just let's them feel more at east. I guess the no name thing brings the worst out in ppl. They will just do anything they want to, all their morals, all legalities, all that good junk that makes us a decent society just goes out the window. Just screw whoever you can. Yeah buddy and shit howdy.
quote from one of Ed Magedson’s admirers.
“I personally read the two-day deposition (conducted by Magedson's lawyers) of the dishonorable "private investigator" who had boasted of putting the New Times reporter up to her incredible "story." It was evident even to me that the naive reporter never questioned the veracity or motive of her source. That P.I. Brewington, the source, had been hired by two other men named Russo and Stanley who were running a scam operation by charging companies a monthly fee to clean up their reputations on the internet. Thus Magedson the messenger became a target of this unholy triumvirate. P.I. Brewington's repeatedly dishonest and unprofessional conduct violated many state statutes and he may have had his then newly issued license revoked by now.”
So “Tina” you personally read the deposition I gave as a non party in a lawsuit? How did you do that? The deposition is not a readily available document. It’s not in Pacer and it isn’t down at the Federal court house. It sits in three places, Mike Dana Esq. office, I know him and he didn't let you read it. The court reporter and they didn’t let you read it, Jaburg and Wilk…bingo! What office were you sitting in?
If you actually read the deposition you would know that I have never been hired by anyone to investigate Ed Magedson. Another interesting point “Tina” is that Maria Crimi Speth filed a complaint on my PI license alleging lots of stuff. How would you know that? While it is public record, one would not know about it by calling DPS. You either have to do a public records request, which was not done or you have to be sitting there at Jaburg and Wilk because they were the only parties that knew. Of course DPS detectives investigated and found no merit to the claims so here I am still a licensed PI with no complaints on my record.
But speaking of the complaint and Jaburg and Wilk here’s another delicious morsal. Another quote.
“If you find it too difficult to research the chameleon Brewington himself -- he's even lied under oath to a federal judge -- try investigating the real "work" of some of his direct associates.”The only claim that I lied under oath to a Federal judge came from…wait for it…wait for it…wait for it…Jaburg and Wilk. An again DPS found no merit.To shed a little light on that subject, the lying claim stems from the same deposition as discussed above. I was tying to protect neighbors of Magedson that I interviewed and told the judge that they were fearful. Maria Crimi Speth claims I lied but since you are so good at looking into public record maybe you saw that Maria Crimi Speths own client and Ed Magedson neighbor filed an order of protection against him, alleging many things including…wait for it…wait for it…wait for it…extortion, a word you guys really hate.
Two things you hate…the word extortion and The Real Rip Off Report.
Maybe everyone needs to put their finger in that wound.One last thing girls…why haven’t you mentioned the email I received that threatened me that if I didn’t turn evidence against the two you discuss above, that unpleasant things would happen? That email I sent to the judge, the FBI and DPS and it is public record.You also didn’t mention the Alyon email that claims if Rip Off Report isn’t paid $10,000.00 for their legal fees bad things would happen.Your attempts to coherse me into compliance isn’t going to work. We know who you are, the state bar will know who you are.
I am assumming here that some type of personal communication is happening between yourself and some of Ed's people in such a way that we are all witnesses because this is not making a lot of sense to me. And, this Tina you are referring to, is not my friend Tina who has been destroyed by the efforts of some unbalanced individuals who have placed reports on ROR, but rather someone who is in the employee of ROR. Would that be about right?
None of your posts have opened any new windows to the world of ROR insanity for me, at least me. I would like to understand if you are providing information or offering assistance or as I stated at the beginning making a statement for other eyes to see that will be witnessed by all.
Whatever the case may be, this is picking the scab off of a painful wound that I cannot change or fix, so it would be nice to know what your purpose is in these posts.
Southeast Tennessee is nice this time of year. But so are so many other places. Hard to choose where to vacation. Any suggestions from the attorney at the heart of all this ROR mess? Report removal seems simpler than first thought. I guess you just have to have the right legal basis. What does one have to do to get the right legal basis to get ROR to react or respond hmmm?
Hi Paladin,
I'm not sure I understand to be honest. Why get all of that information which you could present to Google and NOT present it? Its a lot of effort to go through. If you don't want to present it to Google, could you post links and proof of manipulation by ROR so people can report it to Google?
Its strange to make all this great effort, post to this thread, etc. and then not follow through and report your findings to Google, especially after being threatened, etc. - right? Why not finish the job?
In other notes, found this post today:
https://searchengineland.com/how-to-remove-ripoff-reports-from-google-not-just-bury-them-65173
Apparently you can get a court order and remove reports from Google's index. The problem is if you have anonymous postings on ROR - which all of the ones against me are. Then you have to subpoena ROR and get the identity and then serve the poster, apparently.
Wondering if anyone can find a country or jurisdiction where you can get a court order WITHOUT having to do this - against anonymous posters that Google would honor.
Any thoughts anyone?
PS watch the scammer ROR in the comments trying to promote their $2k extorition program and saying its much better than getting a court order LOL.
It's simple. Out of the 300,000+ complaints, we find companies that are the victims and are currently running Google Adwords campaigns. We organize a protest in the form of pausing our Google Adwords campaigns. If we on average pay Google $100/day, and we get 10,000 companies to join in, that will cost Google $1 million plus a day in lost ad revenue. They'll be more likely to listen then! Feel free to contact me at egekhter [at] gmail .
Hi Mike,
Just to verify what I think is true, the email that you received was from a reputation defender type company, not from Ed. M or ROR, correct?
Thank you to all our CA friends for yesterday. Talk to you soon.
Smitty
Yes, I have one, please remove the reports that I posted on ROR. You know who I am, you have freely admitted. I have begged for this to be done, I am not being coerced, no one is paying me, I did this when I was at the most desperate time in my life, close to taking my own life. I am not well, I am dealing with illness and this has not helped me to deal with my health. As a matter of fact, one of the mistresses of my husband posted a rebuttal to the report that was placed on ROR in her own name, owning all that she has done to me, as she was supposed to be my best friend, she had this affair with him for 13 years. She freely admitted it, begged my forgiveness and said that all that I said about her was the truth and she wanted me to find peace, she had ruined my life. So, with that said, I beg you to remove the reports. We are trying to rebuild our life, and regardless of what you think, for the rest of my life no matter if it is 5 years or 20, if anyone googles my name, it will come up and say these horrible things that are lies about me. I do not deserve this, I have suffered enough. Trust me I have paid tenfold.
So, House Counsel Dave. I beg you, take the reports down. Give the one mistresses husband peace before he dies, he has a brain tumor now, give me peace I have grown grand children, and a grandson who has no father, my husband is his father figure. I live with the fact that he does not need to see the crap that I put on that site and the one bad report that I put on there, the worst one, was on my husband. ON the women, I was generous. '
That is all. The end.
GOOGLES TERMS OF SERVIES, directly from their page under Corporate Information: Check out number 6
Our PhilosophyTen things we know to be true
"The perfect search engine," says co-founder Larry Page, "would understand exactly what you mean and give back exactly what you want." When Google began, you would have been pleasantly surprised to enter a search query and immediately find the right answer. Google became successful precisely because we were better and faster at finding the right answer than other search engines at the time.
But technology has come a long way since then, and the face of the web has changed. Recognizing that search is a problem that will never be solved, we continue to push the limits of existing technology to provide a fast, accurate and easy-to-use service that anyone seeking information can access, whether they're at a desk in Boston or on a phone in Bangkok. We've also taken the lessons we've learned from search to tackle even more challenges.
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We know your time is valuable, so when you're seeking an answer on the web you want it right away – and we aim to please. We may be the only people in the world who can say our goal is to have people leave our homepage as quickly as possible. By shaving excess bits and bytes from our pages and increasing the efficiency of our serving environment, we've broken our own speed records many times over, so that the average response time on a search result is a fraction of a second. We keep speed in mind with each new product we release, whether it's a mobile application or Google Chrome, a browser designed to be fast enough for the modern web. And we continue to work on making it all go even faster.
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I just wanted to point out how dirty ROR is. Several months ago I tried to post a ROR on Ed Magedson (himself). Knowing that it wouldn't be posted, I mainly just wanted Ed to answer questions of extortion and being a felon. Well, it must have struck a nerve with Ed, because he wrote me back at my personal email address claiming "no extortion" that he was not a "felon" and more. It was obvious that he was very angry with me. Shortly after, there was a report made on ME! The report was made by a man that many believe is ED on ROR (or at least someone that Ed allows to make false reports) The man that made a report on me has made at least 20-30 reports on ROR. I've never met the man that made the report (other than corresponding with him on ROR), and his report on me claimed that I was a bad, abusive, and disgusting parent, because I discused my experience of my son being abused with another mother on ROR (my discussion gave NO personal info!!). What makes the report that was made on me so wrong, is that ROR posted my personal info..that only ROR had when I registered, and also gave readers tips on how to locate me, and even find pictures of my son!!!! Ed permitted this to be posted. I tried several times to contact Ed, to ask why he would let this be posted. I wouldn't care so much if it was just me, but it includes a report with info on a 12 year old boy...my son doesn't deserve this! In another email, I was told the report would be removed if I join some advocacy program, that had a fee, and I couldn't afford that. The email was signed RipOffReport Staff. How is this not extortion? I truly believe in my heart, that Ed was behind this report, because of the little argument we had. I have no proof. I will never be able to prove that Ed did this, but BELIEVE me when I say, Ed/his staff had access to the info posted. Now any time you Google my name the headline that states my town, name, and disgusting, abusive parent pops up! I did nothing to deserve this, and especially my son!!! So please, everyone on here, BE CAREFUL who you upset! The report made next, may be on YOU!
This is all a great story. In fact I a sure business week would be interested. You can go on their site and suggest a story.
sarno have you checked your sources on this before making childish comments?
Magedson is a felon because he smokes weed, just like over 50 million Americans including the President's half-brother in Africa.
It is sad that the Internet provides a forum for those who speak and write without thinking at all.
Have you checked ROR and seen the kind of reports there? Here begin with this one on Raj Lonsane a crook, drunk who took 25,000 from my Parents, $15,000 from me in fees and commissions while I kept him in business and $39,000 from a Jay Hadari in Canada.
Have fun with the tomes of postings from staffers, clients and us.
https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/380/RipOff0380676.htm
https://www.ripoffreport.com/searchresults.asp?q5=lonsane&Search=Search&q1=ALL&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0&submit2=Search%21
It is an outrage that people would put down the only way for the little guy to ram thieving liars. Do you know of a better place to post material when someone or a large company steals or hurts you?!
Richard
[email protected]
I do. The BBB. I know that my husband's mistress cannot post at the BBB that I have been committed to a mental hospital ten times, when I have not. I know that she cannot post there that I call my beautiful daughters whores. I know that a mentally unstable young woman cannot post there lies that my friend does not pay her employees. I know that no one can post there that a renowed business man lures teen boys to hotel rooms. And, most of all, anyone who puts anything there has to give their REAL name and cannot hide behind a chicken shit, bullshit anonymous, made up name.
So, when sites like ROR has ppl put their REAL names on their works of art, their tomes of complaints, and comes out from under their rocks with their convicted complaints, then ROR becomes legitimate. Long as unstable people know that they can come to ROR and be anonymous and say any god damn thing that they want, run their competitors out of business, screw their neighbor over because they don't like them, create ten persona's because they have a terrible mental disorder, a judge has told them they are not allowed to ever contact a person in any way again, and they find ROR and now they can torture this person with these personas, then ROR is not a legitimate site doing any good for anyone. We cannot find out who they are without a zillion dollars, and the reports do not go away.
This site is not by consumers for consumers. It is allowing a segment of consumers to stick it to other consumers who are helpless to do a damn thing about it. But, that will not stay the same.
This party is coming to the end.
If your "dream" was to be for the poor, hapless individuals who AT&T treated badly to be able to fuss about it and get results? this site failed miserably. Someone would have had to have intervened, remember the rules of the CDA? This site drew in the underbelly of society. There should not even BE a personal agenda to this site if we are talking about consumers issues. That is just pure salatiousness. Just good old Star Magazine reporting. And, the credibility of this site is gone.
Now you have a bunch of ppl afraid to put their names on their posts because they believe that there is a posse of ppl that are just waiting to post crap about them on ROR and ruin them. And Google, MSN and Yahoo, for whatever reason, still allows them to be part of their search engine. Hurt Ed's feelings? Give me a break. I don't care if he smokes pot. I wish he smoked more. Mellow the hell out. He asked for this. The vicitims of this shit did NOT.
Employers still do searches before they hire. Did you know that? How about your old girl friend posts something about you that prevents that employer from considering you, she does like three personas? You don't think it is happening? You are wrong. Employees are being FIRED from ROR reports. And I personally know of several internet companies that have had to close, that were doing a great job before this mess, and this crap has put them out of business, thanks to one individual.
So, you are in the wrong fucking place if you think you are going to come here and preach to us about that damn site. OK? Do we think some of the things are true? Sure, but Ed Magedson's seemingly cockiness from his interview in the Phoenix New Times, seeming to treat this like a game to the demise of these good people, has taken the legitimacy away. Do I want to shut him down. Lord no. I want to change the law. If in the progress some rocks are overturned showing some "collusions", well that is his problem. He could have done this a different way. He thumped his chest, greased back his hair and gave his tarzan yell. Why not open the board, then forget about it. Not say all the damn bravado. He seems confused to me. Kind Bud? I dunno.
...I forgot to add that I'm a 30 year old mother that is home alone most of the time, and now I have to worry about some crackpots that know my location due to this report. A FALSE report at that! Let alone the reaction of my son, if he or his friends ever find the report. You don't need any proof or anything to back up the claims made on ROR. Basically ANYONE can post ANYTHING they want! The report also requested someone call the police so that I could be arrested and that my son be taken away...Someone needs to stop this website and for God sake, what will it take for Google to stop putting ROR on the top of page one..I was told this was actually illegal the way ROR accomplishes this...is that true?
Well crap like exposing the personal info of a child and putting out false information out on you isn't legal. I'd talk to a lawyer about this. Its ridiculous!
I wish it was that simple. At the very moment I read the report on my son and I, the first thought in my head was to get a lawyer. I'm an MT, I make good money...but not enough to support my kids AND get a lawyer. Basically, the same reason why I can't pay Ed Magedson...I simply can't afford it. On top of the fact that Ed claims not to have wrote it. I would have to sue the man that actually made the report (I believe is actually Ed/staff of ROR) but no proof, and the name that posted my report is for sure an alias. So I have no way of truly tracking the person who wrote it. I feel Ed is extremely wrong for even posting a report with personal information on it (especially a child). I wish I could sue him for that, but I thinks he's protected by some sort of legal loophole. I really feel helpless when it comes to geting Justice.
It is illegal and prosecutable to post personal information about a child w/o a parent's consent under The Children's Internet Protection Act. It doesn't matter if ROR did the post or not, legally they HAVE to either not publish it their case (since they have admitted to having moniters for their site who SHOULD be legally aware of protecting children's information ) or take it down immediately upon being informed of it's presence if comments/posts aren't monitered except after the fact.
If you have contacted ROR, immediately send your state's attorney EVERY communication you have had with them, highlighting or noting the ones directly impacting your son.
Because it's a prosecutable offense, the state's attorney can and will get the true identity of the original poster and the identies of anyone who assisted him/her in this unlawful act.
I recommend that you find the truth for yourself. It's all there in public record. No doubt my investigative files will be subpoenaed again and I will be compelled to turn them over just as I have in the past. Of course every day brings more "stuff".
They have and will continue to malign me in an effort to distract from what the truth is. I don't think there is anything interesting about me, just what I know.
My observation is that the attorneys on the other side of the Rip Off Report are keenly interested in flipping paper for $300.00 an hour but not in getting to what is really going on, my own attorneys excluded.
Journelist's don't don't want to dry up their source no matter how dubious it is.
I recommend you find the truth, not my truth, yours.
I think personally people should band together and get an attorney to take this on contingency who wouldn't mind a whole lot of cash. I am guessing this should be an Arizona or Florida attorney. Anyone else who can comment should but lets get this moving.
The article was neally interesting and on point. I have become the victim of people I have never met or done business with. Thier relatives told them the wrong information, and yet they were allowed to post accusing statements about my company on the ripoff site. This led to a giant fiasco with my regular (happy) clients. Is there a class action suit against them in which I can participate?
The article states the following: "If RipOff report were just providing a neutral and organic platform to publish good and bad comments about businesses, no one would be complaining."
I have to take issue with this sentiment. In what the author indirectly refers to as the "first generation cases," the plaintiffs were essentially complaining about just such a platform. The early defamation cases per se complained about a "neutral and organic platform to publish good and bad comments about business." (please read on before giving me the inevitable "thumbs down")
This is not to say that RoR was such a platform, but there was little to no evidence showing otherwise, hence the multitude of summary judgments wherein RoR prevailed under the CDA because it was found to be such a platform.
These early plaintiffs saw negative informtation posted about them and filed lawsuits prior to verifying that RoR was anything other than a neutral and organic forum. Then, confident but ill-informed, they used the discovery process to try to determine whether their case theories were viable.
And it's not like we're talking about small companies facing a dot-com giant in some sort of mini-plaintiff vs. mega-defendant battle. In its infancy, and according to Ed Magedson's detractors, RoR had only the hobo finances of a failed real estate investor, with a penchant for marijuana, with numerous unsatisfied judgments, and who had to move back in with his retired parents at the age of 50 or so. The plaintiffs, on the other hand, were by and large fairly wealthy corporations. Nonetheless, summary judgment was awarded in the majority of the U.S. cases.
In the end, the U.S. courts decided that the defamation theories were not viable per the CDA because it could not be shown that RoR or its agents created or substantially manipulated content, thereby inherently determining that the complaints against RoR represented, precisely, that which the author describes as something nobody would complain about.
I'm sure that the consumers of SEO/reputation management firms know full well that old adage "any publicity is good publicity" is garbage. But if you've ever woken up in the middle of the night with the TV still on, and if you have an inkling of consumer sense, then you know full well that there are plenty of scam operations out there. But to think that these companies would not try to shut down a threatening enterprise merely because it is "neutral and organic" is either quite naive or quite disingenuous.
Notice the scam doctor.. err.. "attorney" has been silent and ROR goes on.. continuing to rip people off... what a shame..
If this posts twice, I apologize, I selected something at the bottom and wanted to pull my hair out while I jumped through a ring of fire.
ahem. so, as I said before, General Counsel said he was going away, so I guess he made good on his promise but he also said that he was going to interact with me away from thie venue, which he did not, only one email with no conclusion.
So, there you go.
"but he also said that he was going to interact with me away from thie venue, which he did not, only one email with no conclusion."
Exactly... more lies. He tries to come into this thread and do what exactly? Just stirs up the hornets nest and looks like a complete idiot.
Sue the hell out of ROR whoever reads this... keep suing them. They will fold.
The founder of ROR is now claiming that he is being Defamed by Internet Terrorists in the SEO community. This is laughable since he does not think anyone else should be protected from defamation on HIS site.
Using a business model that would make Al Capone envious, Mr. Magedson is able to demand big money from businesses to have unmoderated "third party"posts removed. And it is Al Capone who just may show us how to deal with ROR's alledged 'extortion.'
No doubt Capone meant well when he began his 'enterprises.' It wasn't always a friendly world for Italian immigrants and many probably considered Capone a benefactor. But there came a time when Capone was organizing criminal activities and hurting innocent people. He never was directly involved in the protection rackets or other criminal activities. The law, he felt, could not touch him.
Enter Chicago business leader Frank Loesch, who founded and lead the Chicago Crime Commission. Enduring threats to his life and the lives of his family, Loesch tirelessly worked to bring down the crimilal activities of Capone. The RICO statutes were not written yet, so Loesch faced an uphill battle.
Finally Al Capone was tried and convicted. Remember, he was not directly chargeable and there were no RICO laws then. So what was the crime that was finally pinned on Al Capone? Income tax evasion!
An attorney might be able to tell you whether there is now enough for a class action where as before there was not.
Thanks Paladinpi,
If anyone out there has any insight on:
1) What we should put together to present to an attorney who could help with a class action lawsuit and
2) What attorney to contact or where or how to find the appropriate attorney
Please do feel free to post ideas here!
Lets do this!
I have my legal helper (ex attorney) who can help find us an attorney, but I can't pay for him to do the work. I already do a lot of pro bono work. We'd have to chip in to have him find us the right person.
If you are interested, you can PM me & I'll ask him how many hours he thinks it would take him to find us the right person.
He can also probably tell us what we need to gather to start something.
Michelle
The video isn't a cause of action for you to file a suit. You have to find the truth. Once you do that then you will have what you seek. Again...I haven't given anyone permission to use my work product. Yet.
Our legal team was able to get data removed from Rip off Report.
Are you willing to discuss how you did so? Was it a cease and desist that did the work, or did you reach a settlement with them?
Anything you can tell us would help future victims fight scum like RoR.
:-)
Legal matters we will not discuss
can you please tell me how you got your info removed from rip off. this guy is a real jerk and i really want to fix my reputation
Hi, the methodology can not be discussed on this public thread but please free free to contact us for a confidential assessment.
How do we contact you???
Lazworld may be describing a different kind of magic sauce, and his may be perfectly legitimate. But aside from lazworld, be careful of ambiguous claims. Again, Lazworld aside (which may be talking about something perfectly legitimate), I'd normally get skeptical when a word like "methodology" is used in place of the word "strategy". If the methodology was as direct and effective as the one described at https://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/01/20/google-cide-online-reputation-managers-can-wipe-from-web/ it's a good time to pause and realize what you're doing.
Good article. Explains ground well-trod.
I have spoken with Magedson personally on behalf of a client regarding a negative (and totally false) post on ROR. He actually told me he would be willing to edit the TITLE of the post about my client. That could have taken him out of the exclusions of the CDA and subjected ROR to liability.
Unfortunately, it would have been too cost-prohibitive to take him down. And Magedson apparently makes enough money to fight.
In my opinion (to avoid libel), he's a nutjob, with entitlement mentality, and an "untouchability complex."
His site has suffered the same fate as, say, Marxism: a good idea in theory, but wholly corrupt in practice.
I don't necessarily want to see the site go down, but I would like to see the business model move toward something more vetted, and less extortionate. Like, a lot.
I have what I hope isn't a stupid question... why isn't anyone going after the people posting to the site? Not the people legitimately scorned by bad businesses, but the ones falsifying information.
There has been a lot of discussion on this board (and others) about 2 legal options: suing ROR or suing Google. Suing Google seems futile to me for two reasons:
-they have obviously deeper pockets than what we and all of our clients combined would put towards this
-whether or not the pages this site puts out are relevant for the search terms "<product>" or "<company>" feels subjective and I doubt that any court wants to tackle rules of relevancy within search engines. If Google's sense of fair play doesn't call them into action, a lawsuit would stiffen their defense of it.
Also, my guess is that Google sees Live and Yahoo's non-participation as an opportunity to be the only one showing this "relevant" content to their customers.
The hurdles of suing ROR have already been detailed ad nausium in this thread- a worthy but challenging cause...
For the articles that are strongly believed to be falsified (either by ROR directly or an industry competitor), why couldn't we take a play out of Viacom's playbook and get a court order for the account information including IP addresses of the posters?
I would see two possible outcomes- both bad for ROR:
- Industry competitors that took advantage of this medium to post false information could be held accountable by the people whose reputatations were harmed
- If there were evidence of ROR actually creating these posts or knowingly allowing false posts- a more traditional class action suite could be put together by those affected that I'd bet would shut them down.
Just wondering why the unanonymous partner in these crimes aren't being considered.
Great post, thank you.
I too have been called a scammer, liar, criminal etc. because I had one mean spirited client get upset because I was 5 minutes late calling him.
He even got his friend to post about me & my company.
Now others have posted negative things about me, people who I don't even know giving fake names so there's no way to even rebut what they say other than to say the same thing over & over again which makes me sound stupid.
This has harmed my company, I get asked about it every so often, & there's even people posting the URLs about me on another blog.
We never know how many people don't ask & just run away in fear.
I have not been asked for money from Ed, I wouldn't have any to give him even if he asked, I'm a very small company.
Why isn't anyone doing a class action?
I know our stories are all different, but there must be several who have similar stories so we can call join together.
Thanks
Michelle
Dear Sarah,
Thank you for your interesting and informative article on the ROR lawsuits. I'd like to take a moment and tell you about one that you missed. Federated Financial v Excentric Ventures, ROR, Ed Magedson...etc. My name is Steve Miller. I've owned Federated for 10.5 yrs.
We sat Ed down and Deposed his sorry ass. He lied many times during his depo, and as most liars do tripped over the lies he told toward the end of the day. I still have the fulll transcripts of this depo if you'd like to see them. We dropped the suit after Ed's depo because it was costly and his depo proved my point....point being that Ed manufactured the complaints that appear on his site...and that he alters and removes them based on the victim's ability to pay.
This depo was allowed by a judge in Broward County Fl. to determine whether Ed's crimes were committed in Florida which in turn would have allowed us to bring him down here for trail. Based on his testimony we proved without a shadow of a doubt that Ed Magedson is an Extortionist. The trial was held online on my website that's dedicated to Ed. Please check out my site paying particular interest to the excerpts from Ed's depo. I think you'll find it interesting. We use this site to defend ourselves whenever Ed's lies threaten to cost us business. Pay attention to his Depo, and the Fox news report that was done locally. All Humor by me :-)
We were one of the first to sue Ed and sit him down.
www.bad-business-rip-off.com
Steve Miller
ed magedson personally emailed me i had to pay him money... rippoff report are scumbags!
we have one complaint in almost five years that we can prove is fraudulent. ripoff told us we had to pay and that after we did, it would improve our business...
i can't believe these internet terrorists are allowed to get away with this...
keep posting all...
To David
You said before that you wrote a nice pm to me and I had my pm's blocked, so you could not reach me. I unblocked it.
You sent me an email, extolling certain facts, and I responded and you said you never got the response. Due to the nature of our communication, I waited to hear back from you, did not hear from you and then came back to this site and was rightfully upset that you had not responded.
You said then that you did not get the response and when I did not come here and post again, you thought I was not interested in what you had to say or some such thing.
So, we took it to the PM system here, after you asked me to send my response to your "other" email address, but in the interim you had been outted as to your real identity. I explained to you that since I have sent my first email response to you, that you claim to not have received, my computer has been, to say the least, unreliable. So, in my best interest, I prefer to deal with our communication via the PM system here on this blog. I sent you the response that I had orig. sent to you, and you have not responded.
So, I have a hard time believing that you never received the first one. Again, you have drug this out, treated me with disrespect and like it or not David, you are just showing yourself to be what everyone here has accused you of being. I am very disappointed.
If there is something that you want to offer or do, then do it. You are not interested in communicating with me. You say that I have lamblasted ROR? Welcome to the world of ROR. Welcome. It is nasty out here. We have crap slung all over us, but we have no idea who has done the slinging, but we do know who allows them to sling.
I don't know why I expected anything different.
Smitty,
As I said -- I don't visit this site everyday, so email would be quicker. However, I DID get your PM and I just responded to you.
~David Gingras
General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC
[email protected]
David, I have sent my original email, cut and pasted from the original, via PM to you.
Timing is crucial to lobby congress:
https://www.thecalifornian.com/article/20100823/NEWS02/100823015/Increasingly-online-rants-proving-costly
Sorry for the shameless self promotion, but we offer a Ripoff Report Removal Service: https://growclicks.com. Check out Grow Clicks or look on our profile link for more contact information.
Great article though. There are a lot of weird rumors about the Ripoff Report lawsuits. Its nice to have some solid facts.
I don't know what you mean about "rumors" about lawsuits. I know about a lot of "real" lawsuits, and they are not rumors. Ed is spending his life in court, and that is real.
Again, imagine actual demonstrations in front of the Google Headquarters in Mountain View by people and companies affected by ROR. Imagine them for days and days covered on the news. People standing out with signs - like a strike of sorts.
I am sure companies can hire people for $10 an hour to do that? Or maybe they are so mad they will do it themselves. If 100 people to 200 people show up, I think a lot of people will join in.
PR like this will get results. It must happen a lot and take Google by storm and they will break.
and people need jobs now too.
We are at a wonderful time with our new administration. And so early in, jobs being such a priority, if this were to be before the right set of eyes, some laws would be reviewed. No one could sanction young businesses being put out of business or harmed by ROR or the like by "anonymous" reports. With the business having no recourse, to rebut? wow. That works. Any competitor could knock another out of business just as fast as a blink of an eye.
I cannot imagine it would fair well. Make em all put their full names, addresses, the true complaint, have their information verified before it is posted, and run that ROR site. See how many of those things will be one there.
Yes they do and that is a hot button for Obama. The time is NOW.
I wonder what would happen if we made a list of all the companies with Google ads on Compplaints board and made up fake complaints about those busineses. They would have to stop aadvertizing on the sites and the sites would go out of business.
Actually, I don't think you would have to manufacture anything. If you were to just put the names of the companies that are customers of Google into these sites that are destroying lives and get their reports, you will find that in most cases you do not have to create a thing, they are there. Especially ROR.
Brought to light, so many companies would most likely be up in arms to see that a company that they are doing business with online is supporting another site that is allowing defamation and slanderous lies to be posted about them, leading potential customers to those sites. I am reaching for senators now to try to get two to support a piggy back law for the CDA, but I know that it will be better after the first of the year. No one may be able to undo the harm that has been done, but I truly believe before all is said and done, there will be a massive blow up that will shine a spotlight on all that has happened, especially in the past 6 or 7 years, to companies and individials in America per the disreputable actions of these sites.
And here is the rub. I was speaking to a senators assistant last week about one of the sites and he had me half tuned in/out. I was telling him about what is happening to businesses and personal, how we cannot get the ip addys from them, it takes 100k to even get fr enough along in court to try to get it and then you cannot, understanding that I am talking about ROR. Complaints board has always been so much better, and more reasonable when you talked to them. I know that they have been a problem for some of your but Complaints and Craigs list have worked with several ppl to knock that crap off, they are more discerning. Ed had the gall to say in one depo that they knew when something that they removed was a lie. Oh really. And how, praytell, did they know that? It was the Google hotshots report where they changed the name, that way they did not take it down, just removed his NAME and put a bogus name in there. So, Ed was with this man all the time, knew he did not commit this heinous crime. bullshit.
So this assistant who is replying about freedom of speech, blah blah, and I am telling him, no, it is about freedom of speech with responsibility. How about truth in speech? How about the rights, civil and otherwise, of the ppl whose lives are ruined by lies? By evil ppl, ppl who think it is a joke, angry ppl who get over it and cannot get it removed and regret it, teenagers, ppl who want to take over other ppl's online businesses, scorned lovers, psychopaths? He said, how can they know it is one person, I told him, look at the IP Addys. A person who has fifty personas cannot find 50 places to post from easily. Maybe five or six, but a pattern will be there. Take responsibility. But, he was not even awake for the CAP program.
Here is the clencher. I asked him what if he googled his name and it came up John Doe Kills Neighborhood Cats and eats Them. Whata would he do, he said, why I would sue them. And, I realize he had not heard one frigging word I had said. I said NO YOU WOULD NOT. That is my point. You will not know who did it. And, from that will mushroom tens, or twenty or hundreds of others until your reputation is ruined. You are not hearing me. Get me an appt with the senator, or I will go to every one in my state and if you all will not sit down with me, I will go to another state and when I succeed, and I will, I will make sure that it is well know that MY state did not care about it's constituents. His choice.
What a situation.
Now here is something you can do. Go through those sites and put words like Judge, Senator, Mayor, Sheriff, Governor, etc in your search engine for the site. See how many are there for them, then make them aware that these things are out there. SHake the tree. No one gives a crap about us, but they sure do care about them. Just be careful to leave the ones out that say a spaceship landed in their yard and the senator was on it, or would not take their call. Read them carefully...smile. Make sure they will upset the "important" person. Also if you see what may be a legit complaint, send it anyway. They do not want those on there either.
For those of you having a hard time following the issues and the law, this is a great article.
https://www.citmedialaw.org/blog/2008/two-new-ripoff-report-cases-filed
If you pull the public record on the case, the exhibits are great and explain exactly what they are talking about in this article
Thanks Barry. Sooner or later one is going to prevail and a precadent will be set. And then the flood gates will open. He does not adhere to the CDA and I am excited to see how this all works out. It is better than watching a drama movie. Real life can be so entertaining.
This added to his feeble attempts at Sara and this site. IMO, he is beginning to really smell like sweat.
This is a most excellent post. I have been doing a little blogging about ripoffreports.com myself. We are working up a petition to send to google. You guys are welcome to sign it if you want. I think when people ask for more information I am going to just send them here to your site. Again excellent information.
https://www.disciplesoftech.com/?p=191
I also posted a fake ripoff report about my site on the ripoffreport.com site and they said it had to be reviewed it was so clearly fake I couldn't believe it when I found it live that night, and the next day if you search in google for disciples of tech it comes in at position 5. That's just crazy. Google needs to ban them from the SERPs
So, Hardcoded, you readily admit that you blatantly lied and signed a Terms of Use legal document that clearly states you attest to the truth of your report? Great ethics. Guess that makes you as bad as the guys you claim did you wrong.
What were you trying to prove anyway...that they don't investigate reports before they're posted? Duh. They state that pretty clearly on their website. And they give a multitude of reasons why, not the least of which is that the law (CDA) protects them from having to investigate every comment made at their site.
Much ado about nothing. The Rip Off Report puppet masters beat the freedom of speech drum pretty loudly and fiercely yet are not above a little SEO of their own in the form of creating domains that say I love you Ed Magedson. PR and that’s ok. It certainly seems from public record and some of the postings of Ed Magedson and legal counsel; he gets his feelings hurt when someone says something bad about him just as many of us do.
Being human makes me prone to making mistakes that I regret on my own without the masses, anonymous or otherwise jumping on my corpse. Some humans are more prone to making mistakes than others. Intent means a lot I think.
The Rip Off Report is one thing, Ed Magedson is another. It is ok for the posters here and elsewhere to voice their distain for the site and/or the man. The site is a microcosm of the world in terms of who makes a post or not. Some of the posts are made to specifically harm another. Some are just ignorant people practicing law based upon urban myth. Some are passive aggressive and this is their way of getting therapy. There are also those who for years never took responsibility for their actions and have created a way to exorcise the demons that have haunted them. After all the entire world is out to get them and there are many subplots because they are not allowed to live out their eccentricities in peace. If they lack the courage or conviction of their feelings, they can get others to do their search and destroy missions for them so there is the appearance that they don’t actually create any of the content. That said if Ed Magedson gets others to post on his behalf it would seem that it would be a small percentage of the total posts. Is he to be held liable for the total or the percentage?
What kind of person would Sarah Bird be if she called me and told me or suggested that I post unkind things on ROR or anywhere for that matter. She has not for the record but clearly that would just be unethical. So there has been a debate about the difference between illegal and unethical. I think the legislators have defined the illegal part pretty well; however it seems there is a huge chasm for some in deciding what is unethical. Edward Magedson has been very vocal that he has never lost a suit. I’ll bet he doesn’t get invited to barbeques though. Well maybe he does but I suspect the pig being roasted would not be to his liking.
I think that the Rip Off Report is an unpleasant happenstance and has outlived its usefulness simply because one has to question the veracity of the posts. To say that Ed Magedson provides information to Law Enforcement is simply more PR for the puppet masters. What information could he supply that is not on the post? Why the posters information of course. Then it’s really the poster that is helping law enforcement and not Ed Magedson. Or is Ed Magedson providing information to law firms? There is evidence that exists that he does and for a buck. I don’t know about the law but the ethics seem to stink. I mean there is some victim out there that is looking for help and may or may not get it depending on whether Magedson gets his.
That seems to sum up his Corporate Advocacy Program too.
And so I don’t like the Rip Off Report because of what it says about us. I don’t like Ed Magedson because of what he says about himself and it is my right.
Barry, good comments, particularly on your assessment of the state of society. I can appreciate that you don't like Magedson, or that you disagree with the choices he makes for his site, but at least you're respectful about it. Many others here are not as dignified.
I've stood up for the site here because I believe it serves a purpose, many of which you point out, and while there may be things I disagree with, too, I still stand by its usefulness in discovering trends in scams, frauds and ripoffs. In my own case, if I'd checked the name of a fraudulent MLM before I joined (on a friend's advice), I'd have learned there were multiple reports against it. But i didn't know about it then. I do believe it CAN save ignorant people from making costly mistakes.
Perhaps we can agree to disagree with respect. It seems there are many that are using a chapter from Rip Off Revenge, that being protest. The posters here and there on the internet are making their dissatisfaction known by posting items about Ed Magedson that in my mind clearly have credibility issues of their own. In reality the truth is bad enough hyperbole is not needed. There is an unfortunate lesson from school we did not learn, don’t believe everything you read.
Rip Off Report has taken great pains to appear as a legitimate source when in reality it is simply the opinions of people like yourself that have had a bad experience. Many do not take responsabilty for their own actions and choose to blame others for not being thorough in making informed decisions. That said it seems Blackdog you extol the virtues of researching through Rip Off Report. The postings there are from people like you and I, non lawyers that cannot speak on any authority about what is illegal or not.
A consumer receives a bill from a credit card company and the interest rate has changed. He/She lashed out that this is fraud and others of a like mind jump in yet if one reads the terms and conditions that come with the card they would see that if the consumer violate specific items IE not paying on time, going over the limit etc that the consequences would be a rate change. Who’s at fault? The bank did nothing illegal but the masses have said so.
So too do people draw opinions from the Rip Off Report because it has taken great pains to make itself appear legitimate when in reality it is just a bunch of opinions based upon a lack of information or false information. Yes some of the objects of scorn on Rip Off Report are guilty as charged but which ones? Is it the ones that a competitor posted about or the ex-girlfriend? How do you know which is which? How do you know that 10 post about the same person or company aren’t the same person? You don’t and Ed Magedson creates that doubt himself with the Consumer Advocacy Program. You don’t have to look very hard to see that when he does choose to “investigate” that there are times he is not able to substantiate the claims and says so.
“A little revolution now and then is a good thing; the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants”. Public relations, the law and history eventually will decide who the patriot is and who the tyrant here is. In the mean time I choose to protest the activities of Rip Off Report and Ed Magedson by stepping on a soapbox in this internet park and speak out against the agenda that exists. I also choose not to do business with those that choose to do business with him. A passive economic embargo may have more results if more people chose to do the same thing. While I don’t think I can be charged under the Hobbs Act for this I wonder if the same can be said for others.
There is no doubt though that those that do choose to post and are found out, are getting sued and when that happens they seem to lose the convictions that seemed so strong when they were anonimous. Some even try to recant their post albeit too late.
“The Hobbs Act, named after Congressman Sam Hobbs (D-Al) and codified at 18 U.S.C. § 1951, is a U.S. federal law that prohibits actual or attempted robbery or extortion affecting interstate or foreign commerce. Section 1951 also proscribes conspiracy to commit robbery or extortion without reference to the conspiracy statute at 18 U.S.C. § 371. Although the Hobbs Act was enacted as a statute to combat racketeering in labor-management disputes, the statute is frequently used in connection with cases involving public corruption, commercial disputes, and corruption directed at members of labor unions.”
@ Sarah: very nice article.
What if many people were to take Rip Off Reports corporate advocacy program clients and post the same original complaint in other complaint sites that rank well. Seems to me that if a company has several posts on different sites, all on the front page of Google, the CAP becomes useless and the revenue stream of Rip Off Report will dry up. Because each post is a copywrite of ROR, Jaburg & Wilk can spend lots of of Ed Magedson's money going after the other complaint sites. Additionally if all of Jaburg & Wilks clients were posted on those same complaint sites, the law firm that has proudly stood for freedom of speech will now be faced with their own revenue issues. New clients will be afraid to do business with them and existing clients will run away. Rip Off Report becomes a liability to the firm. Just a thought. I am not suggesting that dozens of people, all independant and unknown to each other go out there and do this.
Hey Randolph,
Well taking all the CAP customers and making a site and putting all the complaints there and that would put them back in the reach of Google. I guess someone could get the CAP ppl, place a complaint on Complaints board or the like, reword it or so forth, or make one up, and then it would come up on Google, and what good is the CAP to them now? You can get all the CAP clients by putting CAP in the search engine of ROR. That could change so do it now, since it has been published. I would never tell anyone to do that, no. But, you know that is something that someone could do. It would also put them on the first page of Google. I think that I heard someone say that when you are on ROR, your report is assigned a code or something to that manner. When you go CAP, you are put wayyyy down on that code so when you come up on Google, it is like way back, 4th page or something. But, hey why would it matter. Has anyone taken a moment to read a CAP clients heading? How it is changed? Is that CDA complient? Oh, it is glorious. Like Ed met the client, saw first hand how they had cleaned up their act, met with the complainer or spoke with them, everyone is satisfied, etc. Then the CAP program is promoted and said to be the best thing since sliced bread, then the original report is there. BUT, now they have a disclaimer that says the report belongs to them and that you cannot copy it or blah blah. That did not used to be there to the best of my knowledge. So verbatim could not transfer any place. ROR is the king of loopholes, they taught us well.
My biggest problem is that well, loopholes are all over the world, in everyones portfolio. Find yours. Be smart. Learn from the best. The teams supporting these guys legally are riding this surf while it is high, not minding getting oil on them, thinking it will all wash off when this blows up. I don't think so but I wish so for them. Making their money while they can because this will end. Too many ppl coming together, too many ppl upset, too many ppl girded and ready to fight. See guys, we are impatient and want this to happen today,, yesterday but it won't. Keep the communuications open. I have to pace myself, I have MS and have had a bad, bad 6 months, but i am feeling better.
And I want to say that this is hard for me because I am an author and have been defamed. My reports were true but I wanted them off immediately. Ppl who write them are victims as well. We have no rights. I should be able to take those damn things down. They are mine by all right, copyrights, etc. Mine.
Google should simply do what MSN/Bing / Yahoo did and BAN ROR to the depths of hell. Obviously Goolge knows what is going on. But more people should perhaps sue Google in the US as well so they get the point. Or picket in front of Google in Mountain View. This is crazy. Its funny how ROR never seems to address how they got banned from Yahoo / Msn / Bing. Its because everything in this thread is correct - they are an extortion business. Wake-up Google - or be sued all over the world!
Hey OK120
You and I fight on the same side of the fence, but you are wrong here. None of the three you mention have stopped working with ROR. They still bring up their reports. I ran a test before I answered. No one, as far as I know, has stopped. Lycos used to not allow any information. They would show a comment that read there was a report on ROR if you wanted to go and see it but they did not carry their links. However, they now carry their links. They are the only search engine that I am aware of that even did that much. Where there is money to be made, greed rules, I am sorry to say.
Yahoo does not oversee anything. I have had one of my accounts spoofed and every single account from which the spoofing originates is a yahoo account. I am talking in the hundreds. They are a sorry excuse for most things.
Maybe the Hobbit Magedson has returned to the shire growing weary of the fight. Maybe all of the Hobbits that help Magedson are in danger of being slain by the same weapon that The Hobbit Magedson wields.
Be careful where you step Hobbits, it likely is a snare to trap you.
Freedom of speech is so interesting.
Xcentric Ventures (ROR) sues Pissed Consumer for Trademark Infringement and is able to get Google to delist Pissed Consumer. Xcentric Ventures sues Complaints Board (Elizabeth Arden) for the the same thing and will try to get them delisted. SEOMOZ has also been sued, when will this site go down?
Can't get enought nice things to say, get rid of the bad.
When did they sue this board and on what grounds? Can you be more specific? And for what?
If anyone wants to read this article....
https://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-11-29-wikipedia-edit_x.htm
Want to put Judge Alex on notice? You don't do that by going to him, you go to his advertisers. Magedson has been sending information to Wikileaks, The Westboro Baptist Church is planning on picketing the Law firm of Jaburg & Wilk because of who they represent. The media will be there to get it all on tape, a press release will come prior to the picket.
I've had some luck pushing complainnts all the way past page 5 of google.
I've created a bunch of blkogs with my company name in the title and url. I also created a buch of press releases with factual information about myself and my business. Then I began bookmarking and backlinking to these pages until they all ranked in the first 5 pages of google. I did a ton of article marketing and blog comments to back link to my new blogs and press releases but it worked.
So it looks like you can use seo to burry the complaints without paying thousands to SEO companies.
yes, that is all that the reputation defenders do basically. The problem is that if you are googled and looked up at ROR again, it will bring you back to the front. The rep def are supposed to be on top of it all the time and redo the urls and so forth to keep it hidden. It is a pain in the ass that can keep you tied up in knots.
what we are talking about is two different things, you are willing to steal the actual orig. report and risk breaking the copyright law they are posting, which by the way as I understand it, anything that you write is legally yours by copyright, so I do not know how they can ever own what someone else wrote. The problem with that could be that you will end up having to get an attorney yourself, and paying money, depends on where you put it. You can always say, wow, I saw this, I don't have any idea if it's true, can someone help me? I am not saying this is so.
What I am after is getting the same info, in different words so the copyright is not infringed, to another place and then the CAP program is not benefiting the victim and they stop paying the ridiculous blood money to ROR. ROR has no jurisdiction over another posting somewhere else, I think that Direct Warehouse has really been killed on the complaint sites, ROR especially, and it may have some validity, but they are todays stars according to Ed now. This is truly not by consumers for consumers. This is buying your bad acts off of a list.
And, unfortunately, the BBB is almost as bad. I had a Vet not properly care for my pet this summer, was very negligent and it cost me close to $1000 and my birds life. They argued it was this reason then that, then another, but would not address that the autopsy showed the mistake was a tube to the stomach either improperly placed or left too long so it migrated, and killed my bird. They were not members of the BBB. They had 7 reports already on there, but because these types of issues are handled in the boards for the vet or court, they do not mark them. Five were that way, two were over charges that that they settled. When my report went in, they joined two days later. See, when you join, you are protected and they knew I was not going away. I went to my cred. card company, presented all the information, and the cc comp said they supported reversing the charges, and would go to court for me. Zing. But meanwhile I had a long convo with the BBB, wanting them to explain to me why they gave the vet an upgrade just for joining. No check on their practice, etc. All about paying in, and got the run around. And, I ask, if you cannot handle complaints that have to go to litigation, why don't you show the complaint? Are you not here to help consumers, NON PROFIT? She was nervous, then one of the nighttime shows, 60 mins or whatever, did a big report on this very issue not long after. They are corrupt as hell. There is no one you can really trust. Less ppl will go to the BBB because they have to put their name on the report, that is the good news, but we need to see what the hell they said. In the old days, they read it to you.
It will be my absolute pleasure to do what you are saying but I am totally confused. I understand Yahoo Answers. But what would you do to facilitate this? Would you put a question in there? Say your name is John Doe, and you have a report in ROR that you want gone, would you put a question that says Why is there a report about John Doe on ROR? Or Does annyone know John Doe? How do you get the question into Yahoo Answers? Would you just put: John Doe, and that is all? If this is getting James or others in trouble, why would it not get us into trouble?
Also, I have a hell of a hard time getting to this site, I wait forever for it to load, and then when I post something, I wait forever again.
Does anyone else have this problem?
EXAMPLE:
John Doe | Which weighs more (TITLE)
1) A pound of gold ?
2) A pound of feathers ?
3) You girl friends ass ?
The John Doe is of course the key phrase you want to rank.
The question doesnt matter?
The object is to get Google to detect the keyphrase.
I'd like to undrstand this better.
If John Doe has an ROR against him that is currently not showing up in a google search as described above, but then someone on Yahoo Answers types the question "Who is John Doe?", will that trigger the rippoff report to appear in google search results? I'm not sure how and why that would work.
I need to clarify!
If you do NOT have an ROR showing in google under your keyphrase "john Doe" then this idea is pointless.
If you do have and ROR showing in Google under your keyphrase "john doe", this idea will shove ROR down with your new content ranking ahead of ROR.
This is a do it yourself SEO tool.
Google by default displays 10 results under a keyphrase.
The object of this strategy is to rank your positive results above ROR and force ROR below the fold of the monitor page.
This is the downside.
Magedson actively monitors for this.
If he thinks he can shake you down for money, he will alter the ROR content and force Google to reindex his site above yours.
Howevever, when Googles detects this blatent fucking with you, they will in turn penalize Magedson and shove the offending ROR back several pages.
The point is this is all FREE.
I can't stress this enough.
Don't pay anyone. Don't Pay Ed. Don't pay an SEO.
Devalue this entire industry and destroy the incentive.
Shawn is a good guy.. thanks for this.. I smell the END of ROR very soon!
In any case, since Yahoo Answers is only one site, do we need to find more to shove ROR down? See I tried to use myspace, linkedin, squidoo and others but still ROR is above most of them for my name and it SUCKS!
And Yahoo Answers will only show 2 results, right? Hmm..
Shawn, darling, I did this and it did not change a thing. I asked if I was a rodeo clown. If I was still in the securities industry, if I like the color brown, just on and on, and worded it thus "Did Jane Doe start her securities career with Dean Witter?" and did them all the same. Put at least ten on there and the ROR report if still top and number one. I have linkend, myspace, my facebook is invisible, but I have so many others, and nothing gets above ROR. ROR has the ability to rate your report. THEY determine where you fall is what I have been told. I have no doubt that they do not care for me, well bully for them, it is a shared hatred.
Hey Smitty,
I will have my professional spammers oops I mean SEO experts provide some synthetic traffic to the URL's you want to rank. Shoot me the URL's to: [email protected]
Take Care
Shawn
:-)
Same here, my reports are still showing.
Thank you. There have been several reports regarding Google getting out of bed with ROR, but I have yet to see that happen, and I have not seen MSN nor any of the other search engines stop allowing ROR to be part of their search engines. However, Lycos does not carry the first line of the report. Unless they have changed, they only will say that their is a report at ROR and that you can go there if you would like. They will not give a link or say what the report is about. They truly do not work with them, only to that extent. The other search engines do. Ppl kept saying the others did not, even to David Gingras who countered back with an answer that indicated that MSN and the others did not allow them to be part of their search engines for this or that reason, and I am sitting here the whole time amazed. I can understand someone misunderstanding what another person has said and not looking a person up on these other search engines to verify what they have been told, but for David to respond in kind was kinda dumb. He has no idea what is going on.
ROR has changed their tag lines that they provide on the search engines, that is about the only thing that has changed. It has been for the good, a better tag line, but they should not have a tag line on there period. They still need to clean them up. When ROR goes down, they will fall hard, and they know it. They are living on borrowed time. No one could have predicted how the internet would impact the lives of so many ppl. Of course, from where I stand, they should take all personal reports off, they take away any and all credibility of being a consumer site by having personal reports on their site. Those are only there as gossip and to get clicks.
I have told Judge Alex he is wrong to be advertising on that site, what the site stands for, the law suits against the site and the owners, etc., if he is about justice and what is right and what is wrong. He needs to investigate himself.
If your triggerable key phrase is "Jack Schnmiggle" EXAMPLE, then stuff that keyphrase in the title of yahoo questions and similar user generated content.
Yahoo answers is crawled by the minute by Google.
If Magedson gets wind of it, he will google your keyphrase and click it with a proxy IP but Google will detect it.
After Magedson gets caught, it will force the Google spam team to review the situation.
James Rogers, a former employee of Magedson was paid by Magedson to do this and he is currently a witness in my suit about that subject matter.
Google is not trying to screw you all, they are just a search engine with a tightly controlled algorythm that Magedson has mastered.
Magedson can not automate his spam procedures and if thousands of you do this, it is simply not cost effective for him to keep up.
Like I said, "click a nerd" ROR was on page (1) in the top 3 results.
Now it cannot be found anywhere and I would bet my life it's because Google analyzed the scam and penalized Magedson.
We spend $120K plus a month in PPC spread across Google, Yahoo and Bing.
When we started moving our PPC money to Yahoo / Bing they illiminated the posting from search results immediately.
I understand why many of you have not seen this as you probably dont spend that sort of advertising dollars and Google does not give a shit because you are low on the priorty scale.
However, a constant bombardment of this plan mentioned above will get Googles attention and work to your advantage.
Yahoo answers is FREE and no SEO Company can accomplish anything that you cannot accomplish yourself for FREE.
The FBI is already looking at Magedson, Speth, Kunz and the rest of them.
They would have to be insane to keep this sort of shit up.
In the same topic of discussion, Opinion Corp dba Pissed Consumer has been sued in Federal Court. The previous law suit was Xcentric Ventures:
1:10-cv-04433-ILG -SMG Ascentive, LLC v. Opinion Corp. et alI. Leo Glasser, presidingSteven M. Gold, referralDate filed: 09/27/2010Date of last filing: 10/27/2010
MICHAEL PODOLSKY
** Edited by SEOmoz to remove address and contact information**
ALEKSEY SYROV
**Edited by SEOmoz to remove address and contact information**
You will find that Pissed Consumer will remove posts when "encouraged". A former Ripoff Report employee alleges that there is a side deal between the two of them and that the Russian brothers have been trying to enter into a joint venture wit Xcentric.
SEOmoz Note: It is part of our Blog policy to respect people's right to privacy (I'm talking about ethical rights, not necessarily legal rights), whether or not we agree with them. It's hard to balance the interests between sharing accurate information that will be genuinely useful to others, and invading someone's personal sense of safety and privacy. Bottom line: We'd feel bad if people shared our home addresses without our permission, so we've used that ethical yardstick to draw the line here. We hope you can appreciate the ethical dilemma and respect our decision not to publish these home addresses cell phone numbers.
I am guessing that the original poster did not add the text " *NOTICE..!! this ripoff has nothing to do with Google search engine - many rip-off businesses use the Google name to fool consumers. https://www.ripoffreport.com/Internet-Fraud/Emillionaire-Google/emillionaire-google-profit-e4wad.htm. No doubt the ROR would have an explanation for that too. Since nobody but ROR knows what the original poster submitted we will never know what CDA violations the ROR commits. So its really a waste of time even discussing it.
Hi, I am assuming you are referring to the hyerlink that you have provided in your post as per all your comments, and not the orig. poster to this blog and or cda viloations across the board. I am assuming, because your comments would not apply if so.
Hi Smitty,
Yes I was referring to the text wiithin that ROR link. (this text NOTICE..!! this ripoff has nothing to do with Google search engine - many rip-off businesses use the Google name to fool consumers) I cannot imagine the orgiial poster that posted that ROR report put that in there why would they it must have been added by the ROR.
Sorry that was not very clear its late!!
You are so right. There is a huge misrepresentation with Google Ads. All those ppl who became millionaires working part time, and the ads look as if they are news stories. There have been a couple that caught my husband and he had me look at them and I was able to show him what they really were.
Google has lost all of it's credibility as far as I am concerned, has compromised it's ethics, in my opinion, and I will not participate in any of it's products, like Chrome or any of that crap.
I plan to buy the book "Google Bomb" and would encourage everyone to. Google the book, lol, and find out about it..
Hearsay…no this is direct testimony. If there is a doubt about the credibility of the interviewed party it should be known that she is listed in a Federal document as being a litigant in a suit that Maria Crimi Speth attempted to have taken to class action status. I would presume that she was credible then.
Also certain disclosures statements in another case support much of what they say. Not only that but also, other interviews with unrelated people support much of what was said.
Maria Crimi Speth filed a complaint on my private investigators license alleging many different things…outrageous things. Experienced detectives with the Department of Public Safety investigated the claims and found no merit to them, though they had interesting things to say about the business model of the Rip Off Report.
The video you viewed is part of a 48 minute interview and you haven’t seen what else has been said a portion of which is that the two parties were very clear that Ed Magedson, the “lawyer guy” tried to get them to say untrue things on the Rip Off Report.
What have I done? I turned everything over to Federal and state law enforcement. No wonder they write such bad things about me.
So, if you are on the inside, because truthfully, I am broke and broken and have no idea what could be done about this, can you tell me something.
I have a blog that I put up last year, Stop Defamation On The Internet Hiding Behind CDA, and as I had no idea how to get attention to this blog, it has been basically dormat. However, recently there was a post to it from someone claiming to be representing for a class action, asking for certain information from anyone who had filed a complaint with Ed, with Google, etc., you can go to the blog and see what they want.
But the link to their web site takes you to nothing. That bothered me. I responded that before I sent them anything I would like to know more about them. All that they sent was an email addy. No name of a firm, etc. Nothing would make me happier than to know that a class action was going forward. But, how clever for Ed to gather information about "us" who have complaints. I want more information about this "firm", if indeed there is one, before I send them info about me, my situation and who I am.
So, have you any knowledge of this class action, these individuals or of any class action that we who have been harmed should be involved with. I, personally, do not have the funds to go after this, nor do I have the emotional fortitude as an individual, but I would not hesitate to be a lead in a class action.
Also, do you have current news you can share with us, or can you point us to current news? The last thing that I knew was that Ed was ordered to turn over computers, he was saying that they were down when the judge wanted the names of the authors of some reports that he was being sued over, and the judge was ordering them delivered to him in a lawsuit against him. That is it. You probably could fill in a lot of this for us, or me. I can email you on your site if you would like to find out more, I just would love to know if in my lifetime I will ever know that my name would be cleared of all the malicious slander on that site, that Google would no longer carry that garbage. The funny thing is that Lycos and Bing do NOT carry the report in my name. But, they do in the other names that I put on there. While I want all the reports off of ROR, the ones that I put on there are true, the ones put on there about me are revenge reports and not true and one only has to read them to see the mentality of the author and that they most likely are not true. However, when you Google my name, it still says that I am have the heart of a whore and am a psychopath in the heading. When you read the report, it sounds like a fifth grader wrote it, but you can never erase that legacy, that one line.
I don't want to know anything, that's the point. No one really cares except you. Not too many people are going to judge you for a moment in your life. If the wound you have caused hurts then quit putting your finger in it and let it heal.
I am not putting my finger in it, it is hard to deal with knowing that it is out there, that if my name is googled, there it is.
Sorry if I came on strong, but it seemed that you did as well. Why did you ask what you did about me being scrutinized? You are very confusing, I am sorry.
What gives Magedson expertise to comment on some of these issues? Why would journelist's with little to no schooling quote him on scams?
I suppose the same reason that "It takes a theif" became a hit on A & E. Who better to tell you about scams then a scammer, or in the shows case two burgelers showing the world how they...well...burgeled.
Magedson has published his explaination as to why he named his website Ripoff Report. He claims that was his own business model for years.
So gradually I am going to feed out little pieces for you to digest. Smitty points out that she became aware of Ed Magedson’s hard drive failing when discovery requests in another case were made. Interesting…in the case involving the video at my website
https://www.paladinpi.com/content.php?id=21
you will find in the public record that when asked to provide documents that had been requested previously and relating to Edward Magedson:
“Ms. Speth then called Plaintiff outside to talk to him and when she returned she claimed—for the first time ever—that Plaintiff could not produce the e-mails because they had been lost when his hard drive crashed.”
“I informed Ms. Speth that I was going to move to compel production of the e-mails and/or the hard drive. Ms. Speth said she would oppose any such motion.”
“Apparently Mr. Magedson was harassing Plaintiff about his portion of the potential settlement from the outcome of the lawsuit.”
If you read the public record you will find that it became impossible to serve Ed Magedson and Ms. Speth could not produce him in spite of him being on the witness list.Serve Ed Magedson??? Interesting.
Later we will be talking about the reason why the registered agent was changed to G. Peter Busnack up on Reevis Mountain and the relationship G. Peter Busnack had with the former agent John F Goodman. A little hint…one of my contemporaries had to ride ATVs into the camp to serve G. Peter Busnack for another suit. It is a very inaccessible place…hard to get to.Coming later…how Media Pennsylvania plays into this.
OK, I found this group: Save The Internet
https://savetheinternet.com/?JServSessionIdr006=stld0t4l13.app43b
Who are fighting for internet freedom, and I joined them. I created a blog site that I want you all to go and join please:
Consumers Against Defamation On The Internet
https://stopinternetdefamation.blogspot.com/
I joined the save the internet ppl to bring awareness to them regarding the fight we have on our hands. All is not peachy keen for freedom here, the CDA needs a second look. So, I am gonna fight, are you with me?
ARE YOU WITH ME ?????
Smitty,
I will help you organize. Tina
It will take hundreds, if not thousands, of people like you and me banding together to accomplish our goal of preventing the type of internet defamation that we are now experiencing. We may not have the numbers, but we certainly have the principles on our side.Good people are being adversely damaged by a good law that has resulted in bad policy. In order to get action taken to address the problems inherent in the current CDA, we must organize and take our message to state legislatures and to Congress. I think it can be done. If you’ll be my Norma Rae, I’ll be your Erin Brockavich. We have a story to tell and it’s high time we told it.Tina NorrisTNT ManagementDes Moines, Iowa
I have the blog ready. What I need from you guys now, is for you to go there, take the survey, and join the fight. There is a way for you to click and show that you with me, united against this. I will now work on the legislation that I need to get to. Tina, thank you for going so fast. I will check and see if the petition is fixed yet. If not, I am going to scratch them and use another one.
This is a big deal guys, and I am sticking my nose out there for all of us but I need you. Don't just bitch and moan, get on board with please. COME ON. Five signatures on the petition? One person at the blog? Are you guys are blow and no go? I am not afraid of Ed.
Ed, I am not afraid of you. You are a bully, you are a narcissist. I have met you before, many times.
I've looked at the blog but couldn't do anything once there....
Hmmm....Tina, what did you do when you posted your comments? I am REALLY new to all this, so I may not have it set up right. I have to leave for a wake, my cousin died, quite unexpectedly. So, I may not be back to work on this until tomorrow..
actually, Google is reporting problems, I may take this to a private blog and take Google out of it somewhat. Til later... but, try later as well.
Smitty,
We have my laywer's attention, are you free to take part in a conference call tomorrow? My number: 515-745-8351, Tina
absolutely. I am eastern time, what about you?
THIS PERSON IS A LIAR, A SCAM ARTIST, A CROOK, AND AN EVIL PERSON! YOU PEOPLE NEED TO REALLY BEWARE OF WHO SHE REALLY IS!!
LET'S SPEAK THE TRUTH AND THE FACTS HERE, SHALL WE!!The facts are this: my wife and I were approached by C Taylor Agency and TNT Casting/management/talent whatever many different names this evil lady works under, back in October of 2006. My wife and I did several jobs for these evil women who both were very quick to take credit for giving us the work, and both were quick to ask for paperwork to bill the client. However, neither one of these evil persons wanted to take the responsibility for paying either one of us. So, out of frustration of having constantly called and emailed about my money, just to be ignored and not have any of my emails or calls returned, I posted ads on CL and Event Speak for people to beware of these evil women. ONLY then were my emails replied to. This evil person Tina Norris claims to be so honest and reputalbe, but she constantly ignored my emails, hiding behind her assistant, at the time. Only when I posted the TRUTH about her trying to cheat us out of our money, did she email me about my check. We did the work in October, we were send paperwork that needed to be filled out IN JANUARY, before we were to be paid. My wife was paid maybe three months later. I HAVE YET TO RECEIVE ANY PAYMENT FOR ANY WORK I DID FOR THESE EVIL WOMEN. Now, Tina Norris with TNT Mgmt, and Teresa Cantanese with C Taylor Agency, who is the real criminal here? I never lied about any of the lies and scams pulled, and tried to pull, with me and my wife. You are both liars, scam artists, crooks, evil, and very bad women and should be stopped. I posted this and everything else I have ever posted about you evil women so that people would beware and stay very far away from you. Anyone who has anything to do with either one of you runs the risk of being victimized by your lies, scams, and evil-doing. Come on, Tina, I still have every single email you ever sent me, especially the ones stating that if I didn't stop asking for my money that I so rightly deserved that you would sue my and garnish my wages for life. I am not scared of either one of you, because I have God and all that is GOOD on MY side. I will not bow down to your threats and be like all the other wimps who recanted what they said, which was the TRUTH, just because they wanted to get paid. NO! You need to be stopped, and the people deserve to know the TRUTH!!
Great Article. I saw a link for a petition to get Ripoff Report removed from Google at https://www.ripoffreportiswrong.com. Enjoy.
I signed the petition, but was shocked that only 6 other people have signed it.
I would have thought tons of entrepreneurs would have signed it already.
Michelle
My petition has been doing a bit better, certainly getting some views.
https://www.disciplesoftech.com/?p=191
Smitty how was the call with Tina's attorney?
Actually, Tina and I spoke at length and decided what each of our strengths are and her attorney was not on the call. He gave us some info and is going to continue to do so but not as our representative. He cannot afford to do this pro bono, so we have to really do this with our wits, his direction when he can and getting more familiar with how to get something before congress and or the legislature. That is the only way to stop it.
Just an update, I have been reaching out to different individuals who had foresight in 96 as to what we are seeing today and trying to unite a group that can see the damages that CDA has caused. This last poster made my skin crawl. A perfect example of the need for law change. Forget closing ROR down.
I am extremely happy Tina has come on board in this thread. This is because Tina has actually dealt with lawyers and legal teams, etc.
The bottom line with this ROR thing is it will have to involve lawyers, media, maybe PR people, and a whole big fuss to get this thing shut down and/or to get Google to follow MSN & Yahoo and get it out of the results.
This can be the only goal.
Smitty, I feel for your condition, but things like internet petitions I think may be tough to actually have an effect. We are better off using getresponse.com to manage a mailing list and advertising on Adwords or using SEO to get the #1 result for "sue ripoff report" or something like that and getting a website going.
However, the thing is, we already have that in this comment thread. That is likely how people are finding this thread - it is ranked very highly for "sue ripoff report".
We can start a mailing list somehow with getresponse.com or aweber.com. In fact, now that I think about it, we don't even need a website for that.
The only way the mailing list will matter, however, is if people start coming forward with legal teams, etc. There needs to be legal pressure. Perhaps an attorney who does want to make a name for themselves, etc. - perhaps they have an idea on how to gather names of several people online affected by ROR.
I found this thread by searching for ways to combat ROR - there must be similar ways to position a website to do so - that can be found - with information on how to unite and get this done.
But, an attorney - or several attorneys - needs to lead the way on this.
I understand right now that several attorneys are suing ROR - for several different things. Maybe the thing to do is find all of the cases against ROR - and have an attorney try to bring some or all of those attorneys together and their clients together.
Google needs to be targeted as well because this is complete BS. It should become a PR nightmare. And also, by the way, a PR person needs to be hired to spin this the right way. Because, ROR is BS - bottom line.
BBB is not BS, ROR is BS. Period. That distinction needs to be made. MSN and Yahoo understand that. Why doesn't Google?
But, if an attorney is in charge and starts collecting information on people harmed by ROR thru the internet (thru adwords ads, etc. or thru a website ranking high with SEO) - then people will feel okay about being identified and hooking up with this attorney. A lot of people may be reluctant about identifying themselves in this comment thread or on iPetition, etc.
But, as I stated above, this thread will mark the end of ROR. It will happen. I would say one aspect is to target Google. This is a big name everyone can relate to. Why is it in Google and not in Yahoo and MSN? Why did MSN and Yahoo delete it? And why didn't Google? Well, you see... with this logic, and with the real story about Ed's shady past - getting arrested, etc. ... and with interviews by Yahoo and MSN (who could use positive press versus Google) - this will get Google to jump. They'll either defend it first, or give in immediately... but, with enough pressure, they will give in. And it will be out of the results.
At that point, the scales will tip and ROR will be finished. Period.
But, it will take attorneys and a PR team. And if that takes money, it will have to be harvested from a Google possible settlement, attorneys / PR people who want publicity ... or companies with money that band together.
Someone mentioned contacting the companies on ROR. That's not a bad idea. I think someone could hire a freelancer on getafreelancer.com to write a program to do that easily perhaps and then maybe somehow send out a mass email. Or hire the freelancer to get every company's contact information manually.
This may not be possible.
So the other way is, as I mentioned, to use PPC or SEO to promote a website (like this comment thread) which has information on HOW people can band together and WHAT they can do to band together and a PLAN of action so that they are motivated to get involved.
I wish I had more specifics, but I am only one person. Hopefully I am helping by giving some framework ideas.
But, this will happen. If we make a plan to attract companies to a legal team and PR team that want ROR shut down - they will come. If the legal team and PR team have a plan, it will work. And it will be shut down.
If they have to mobilize to picket Google, all the better. A bunch of things can be done, but ROR will go down.
No one seems to say anything to me, but I'll continue to offer what I can.
If you need a mailing list set up, I can do that for us for free thru my Aweber account.
I'll just need an mailing address.
As for AdWords, I'm not sure Google is going to allow that if they are in bed with ROR, & getting to the top 10 via SEO?
I'm willing to put up a blog on my server for anyone who wants to help & that will get ranked fairly quickly.
Let me know.
Michelle
I would love a list of the companies. That would be wonderful. Tina and I are going to work together to get to congress, we both agree that we have get things united, we need information, what has happened to who. We need the names of companies, what happened to them as a result of the sites, etc. That was what I was hoping to get with the iPetition, a list of names to start with, to get info from. The only way to get this changed is by bringing it to the media and to congress, law changes. And to support why there needs to be a change, we need to show the damage that has occured. So, we need the names and damage that ppl have had. Personal as well as business. Obama is big on making a living in America, new in office and the small business man is a hot button for him. That is one of the things that these sites are serving to destroy. So, a list of companies from ROR and Complaints Board and the like would help us more than you could possibly ever know. Thank you so much.
Love love love your enthusiasm and that is what we need..the fire. On iPetitions, names are not shown, so while it may not be the mode we need, ppl are not outed there.
I love the picketing idea, but so many ppl cannot travel. I can. I will go wherever you need me to go. I fly free and just tell me where to be. Also, I am close to Washington, DC, I am there as well.
If I have a list of the companies that are being slammed on ROR, I will contact every one of them myself. I have the time and the desire. I will call, or mail or whatever we want. The key to me is all united.
That is all that I want to see, all united. We can come to this site and talk until our ears are blue but we have to strike. I tried to reason with Ed, and with Google. No one listened.
I want to say this, I think that this is a great piece for Dateline or 60 minutes. Why not a push in that direction? I personally am broke. Breast cancer and MS have depleted me. I have credit cards to use sparingly, as in hotel rooms here and there, but I cannot retain an attorney. There is going to have to be an attorney who can see something in this for them, either publicity as a good guy, ie: more clients, or has a fire for this kind of crap, or will take on this as a class action as he thinks it is actionable.
I have had success closing down a tyrant using other methods but I am not computer savvy, I am not even sure what SEO means...haah. I just know what a bully is, I know how it feels to be on the receiving end of something that is not legal and I do not sit well with it. My choices are to get sick or fight, so I will fight. I am a good fighter, I will war with you. and I am NOT afraid of Ed.
Ed, I am not afraid of you. You make me sick. I think that you are one of the most disgusting examples of mankind that comes around from time to time, and I hate that you have so many good people afraid of you. Because you now have so many angry with you that the scales are balancing the other way.
Ok120, put on your gloves, Tina, let's get started. I am with you guys. It is good to know that ppl are being sent to this board when looking for ways to beat ROR.
When I came here, the board was unformed, but it seems to be taking a form, a shape towards something. Thank God!!! I will call the stations. I have NOTHING to lose. I have given seminars to hundreds in my career, spoken at fairs to people about cancer and I am just set on go. Use me. I am rusty. But use. me.
ALL OF YOU NEED TO GO TO THIS LINK AND CLICK ON THE AUDIO CONVERSATION THAT IS GOING AROUND THE INTERNET AND SEE THIS SITE. PLEASE
https://www.clickanerd.com/jw-redirect.htm
Good Work Smitty.
I'm wondering what SEOMOZ thinks about getting sued. Surely the SEO community must be outraged?
Hi,
Well, here are some more links that I found, seems like they are popping up all over. Ed is making more enemies than you can shake a stick at. I also heard that a judge ordered release of IP addys in a current case, and Ed said the computer went down, so then the judge ordered release of the computer. This is heresay,of course, I have no idea if it is true, but if so, it looks like the edge of the membrane is being scratched loose.
Here are the other links:
https://www.ripoffreportisgoingdown.com/
https://www.fairness.com/forums/message-view?message_id=25753
https://www.ezripofflawsuit.com/
https://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=2072
https://creditsuit.org/credit.php?/blog/comments/
Despite pontificating to bloggers, Google did not appeal their loss in the Trkulja v Google decision of November 12th 2012. this is a link to the judge's decision:
https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/vic/VSC/2012/533.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=trkulja
We are proceeding to trial in the new year and I will update when we have a trial date.
Badforpeople.org is owned by Michael Roberts of Rexxfield who owns a Reputation Management syndicate with his majority business partner, Adam Zuckerman, Paul Portelli and others.
It is not secret that Rexxfield created an automated campaign to promulgate defamatory content and then extort money from the victims of the very libel it publishes. This business model Rexxfield termed "Google-Cide", see pages 21-22 & 28-29 of certified court reporters transcript entered into evidence in case no. 1:11-CV-00169-DN.
https://www.ripoffreport.com/Common/files/Meeting_Transcript_2011_01_28.pdf
According to the same transcript, Rexxfield plans to cast Ripoff Report in a false light, accuse RipoffReport.com of extortion through a systematic smear campaign and then launch its own replacement platform, see pages 67 & 73.
Submitted into evidence in the above referenced case is an audio recording in which Rexxfield operatives discuss Google-Cide (listen to audio here).
The subject was briefly covered by Fox News last year (see Fox News article). This forum and others that have allowed Rexxfield, Badforpeople, Michael Roberts to continually post is allowing the creation of new victims of Google-Cide. This is partially done by the use of the term : 'Googles Humility Algorithm' which is nothing more than a key word which brings victims to the site where an algortihm scrapes there social networks to identify the propensity to pay for their Reputation Management services in the event they were attacked (see page 19).
[[REDACTED]]
It might surprise you to know this, but what Sunshine said is largely correct.
The words of trolls and bullies only matter if you let them affect you.
Ignore them, and they have no power over you.
Think you just can't ignore them? Try it.....you CAN do it.
Hey all,
It has been ages since I came here. I get all the posts, and read them. I feel all your pain and heartache, and know the devastation. In the past year plus, I have been able to not forget it, not ignore it, but make strides toward healing from the posts regarding my pain and trauma that are on ROR. I pray that one day they will be gone. The sickening part for me is that the only one in prime position with Google today is mine, not the ppl who destroyed my life. No rhyme or reason. But as Davod said you sooner or later have to make a choice.
I have been sick for a long time, and I believe with all my heart it is due to the stress in my life. The lack of care shown me, first of all, then the massive betrayals that drove me to the brink of crazy where I behaved completely out of character for myself, causing harm to me and others, and then more harm, which led to a panic filled, anxiety ridden fight against ROR, Ed, David and anyone to try to change it all, almost killed me.
This past Feb they had to implant a defibrillator in my heart and that was it. I do not have heart disease but rather an electrical malfunction. Tina, my delightful, wonderful friend that I made through this nightmare whose life was destroyed by a ROR stalker, finally walked away as well. Today, she is in love, happy, in a new life and God bless her. I adore her, love her and I am so happy for her. She lost her home, her business, her old life and found her bliss. I am working on changing mine.
David and Sunshines are right. You have to rid yourself of the venom, and it is right too for you to fight if that is what you need, but please know when to stop and please know what you are fighting for and if you have a solution. The CDA law was short sighted and it does not work, but what it is the alternative?
Each site has to have it's own moral compass, has to have it's own principal and follow it's own star. That is the bottom line. I should have read the fine print. I would never hae posted those four posts there, that were all true, if I knew for a second that I could not come back and remove them in a day. I was in pain and my toes were on the edge of insanity.
I have made my peace and now I try to not Google me any longer. I am so sorry for all your pain. God bless you all.
One other thing before I go, it is too simplistic to tell ppl to ignore horrible things written about them, especially if they are lies. If they are lies and they get fired, lose a job opportunity, are shunned in their community, etc., if they eperience a loss, it is really not fair to say that to anyone. That is something that has been said to me that always upsets me. Human beings cannot do that, Most human beings. Your personality type, maybe you can. But, imagine if someone made a crime up that they said you committed, one that is not on the court records, and as a result you lost your job, then your home/car/wife and kids, etc. Ppl cannot ignore that. Ed himself does not ignore harmful things about him, it bothers him. It bothers all of us. It is called being human. And, you know that I like you and Ed. We found our place.
Smitty,
I respect your view (as always), and I agree that sometimes if a person is targeted with false statements, there are very rare instances when it makes sense to pursue legal action. But here's the problem -- when most people feel that they are being attacked, it affects their judgment and common sense goes straight out the window. As a result they make decisions based on emotion rather than logic. 99.999% of the time this ends up being a HUGE mistake. Really, if you had cancer, would you perform surgery on yourself? Of course not....there are some things that are just too difficult to handle yourself. Deciding how to respond to online criticism usually falls into that category.
Sure, maybe .0001% of the time legal action is the right move, but in order to make that decision you need to get GOOD advice from someone who is smart, who knows the law, and who isn't trying to sell you something. Good luck with that....
Having said this, the Sarah Jones case in Kentucky might be the best possible example of how NOT to respond to online criticism. The facts were simple -- someone posted a few comments about this lady calling her a few rude names and so forth....not nice stuff, but it was hardly the end of the world. She was a high school teacher at the time, and after some people at her school saw the posts she apparently met with her boss, told him the posts were false, and that was the end of the story. At that point, she could have ignored it, kept her job, and the whole thing would have been forgotten in a matter of days. Life would have gone on.
Unfortunately, that's not what happened.
Instead, she got really awful advice from a lawyer who had no experience in this area, and as a result she decided to sue. Although the case isn't over, this will probably end up being the worst mistake of her life.
Just look what happened -- she ended up getting herself charged with two serious felonies AND her mother was even charged with trying to destroy evidence. Some people might disagree and there's no way to ever know for sure, but I think if she hadn't drawn so much attention to herself by filing a lawsuit over some stupid online gossip and then going on a national media frenzy to cry about being a "victim" on 20/20 and Anderson Cooper, this never would have happened to her.
Instead, her life has been completely destroyed. She made a fool of the Kentucky judge who believed her story and awarded her a ridiculous $11 million judgment (which she will never collect), and in all likelihood if she's convicted she's facing some serious time in prison:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/03/30/bengals-cheerleader-who-sued-the-dirty-for-ruining-her-reputation-now-facing-reputation-ruining-charges/
What does this teach us? Well, as unpleasant as it might be, it shows that sometimes you just need to turn the other cheek, ignore the haters, and walk away. Don't like that suggestion? Ask Sarah Jones if she regrets her choice....I'd love to hear her response.
I know that ignoring your critics might sound hard, but consider this -- people seem to think that online speech is so powerful that a single untrue blog post can destroy a person. This is just not reality. Here's an example...
Some nut-case has been threatening Nik Richie and demanding that he remove whatever post the nut wants. After Nik refused, this person went and posted a bunch of garbage videos on some website with titles like: "Breaking News: Nik Richie arrested for molesting his daughter" (Nik has a 9-month old daughter). Most of these videos have since been removed, but you can still see the thumbnails by running a search:
https://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/nik+richie/1
Did Nik sue? Of course not. On the contrary, he posted links to this crap on his site so that everyone could see the sort of tactics used by his critics.
See my point? Bullies only have as much power as you allow them to take....so don't give them any.
I agree totally but there is no way that you can cherry pick a couple stories that turned out horribly and support ignoring lies posted about you online. Suing, lawsuits, God, they are horrible and the lawyers who take them and misguide ppl, what are they thinking? And, I agree that ppl are in an emotional spiral when they are invested in making a decision as to what to do. The horror of this situation, or one of them, is you have no idea who is doing it. And, Tina was just one example of how easy it would have been to prove it was two or three ppl posting the same stuff over and over. IP addys. But, it is a moot point now. And, her life turned out better. She is truly blissful.
I know that it is hard for you to not address the things that have been posted here about you, and we have discussed some of it and to anyone who cares, some of that mess is lies and revenge. But here you go, the internet is forever. That is something that we are all learning the hard way. But again, Ed has a hard time with stuff said about him. We are all human.
In my town, in my city, where I have worked hard my entire life to create an image, to have my name tarnished as a psychopath and whore at heart on a Google, that is hard to take. No matter how you slice it. I just try to not Google myself any longer. My street name, city, state, is all on it. So, I am full on. And, it remains number two on my Google. No rhyme or reason. but those women who destroyed my life, their ROR's are on page 405. Such is life.
I had to disclose all this to my editor, I am writing a book, then decide how to address it in the book. No more shadow dances. It is there. End of story.
I used ReputationMatrix.com to remove my Ripoff Report and they did just that. Now it is on page 20. They are awesome! 1-877-241-7613 all I had to do was supply them with a little content and they had it off the front page of google in 2 weeks.
Jim, I don't know if you work for them, I am not making an accusation here, but it is not gone. If someone wanted to crank back to page one, they certainly could. Just by pulling it up over and over or posting rebuttals to it. It ain't gone and I have no idea what they charged you. Please don't mislead ppl here.
Actually I respectfully disagree with your assessment as to why this site exits. Ultimately I think the site is promotional and some of the writings are intended to draw attention the SEO portion of that promotion and there is nothing wrong with that. The site wasn’t created as a non profit effort. The story Sarah wrote and the consumer comments afterwards are enlightening and entertaining. There are more stories there than this one. The mainstream press is no different; they exit to sell advertisement not stories. The stories draw you to the advertisement. That said it in no way diminishes the efforts and the intent of the words written by all parties.
What the link means is what it says. There has been another suit filed. Without seeing the complaint it is difficult to know exactly what the nature is but I think we are safe to assume it doesn’t mention the excellent writing skills of all parties here. Once upon a time if you Googled Rip Off Report, consumer comments would appear in Pissed Consumer. Compare the complaint against them with Complaint Board and I think a pattern will develop for you. Perhaps the complaint in the link here will be the same, I don’t know. It is important for you to do research. When you do you will find others that have the same feelings as you and filed suit only to settle later. What happened to their level of commitment?
Share your stuff Smitty but I submit to you if the suit in the link is what I think it is, your comments will be lost just as those were in Pissed Consumer and potentially Complaints Board. Maybe not. I hope those that have something to say can do so without fear of retribution but we know that won’t be the case.
When I was a kid if someone called me a name they got their ass beat whether the comment was right or wrong. Kind of the same today. He who spends the most money will assert their right over the other. Knowing how to fight is important too.
Speak out…speak loudly. Want to change the CDA? Do the research and take it to your legislature. My observation though is there hasn’t been enough research, just mimicking what many people are saying because they want something to be true. Some of the comments in the site are factually wrong. With a little research, not rumor, that might not have happened. Sometimes though I suspect people write things in here with an intent to do nothing more than cast aspersions at the character of Rip Off Report. How is that any different than some whacko stalking another via the internet?
It is important to fight wrongs with rights, not more wrongs.
The good news is I am an adult now and will not disagree with you in the same manner as when I was a kid.
Well, I think that you and I, as adults, and of course as responsible adults at that, must agree that no place should exist in any type of media that would allow lies and defamation to take place that would cause financial or emotional harm to others without the possiblity of legal action. With free speech comes the responsibility of truth and civil rights. Even Ed Magedsons. I would stand with him in his fight for either.
What I am seeing happening today via ROR and what I find the most objectionable is the lack of responsibility that has been taken to protect the civil rights of all americans and consumers. Had this so called "By and For" consumers site done what it is and was purported to do, I do not think that it would be a site protected by the CDA. The CDA requires no third party intervention or involvement in the postings or wordings etc, so were someone to run intervention betwixt and between, that gets a bit muddy and changes this free for all board.
However, it seems that with the advent of the "corporate advocacy" product, it really changes. Fingers are getting into pies and making money from nasty reports and names are not on reports, and wow. Who DID write that report? Way too gray of an area created there. Who are these ppl saying they "guarantee" to get your report off or so deeply buried, no one will ever see it? Kinda icky and again, if Ed says, I will not remove under any circumstances, then who owns or is involved in those companies? You know?
Then the old just plain out nastiness of it all. Let's take the corporate agenda out. What about all the personal slander and defamation. What in the hell does that have to do with "For the consumer, By the consumer" or their stance of never taking a report off to stop corporate bullying? If a wife puts a report on there about her husband and regrets it, and begs for it to come off, what does that have to do with any of this?
It is out of control. He has lost the reins. There should always have been in place some type of controls and personal issues should never have been allowed on there. I cannot call the BBB and tell them I hate my neighbor. He lost all credibility with that mess. But, when you get a gaggle of unbalance, possibly dangerous individuals on a site who can be anyone they want and they peg on one person, this can become some serious shit.
I don't care if Ed runs naked down Camel Back Mountain. Or through Cave Creek with a Chili Beer in his hand. I would think he would want to relax, who the hell wants to fight all the time because sooner or later he will lose. All I want to do is change the law.
As for any link I could post, several new lawsuits against Xentric have hit the courts and the IP addys were told to be turned over and are on a stay right now. It is very possible they may be ordered over. Once this happens, all those who have thought that they were so smart to tell all those vicious lies maybe in trouble. And, Barry, I am sure you know what I am speaking of.
Ed is a very smart man. I just wish he would have used his magnificent mind to help someone instead of giving himself a premature heart attack. He has to be bound up in knots to be at battle all the time.
All I want is to change the law. There were many in opposition to the CDA for this very reason, and some for other reasons. I am ferreting out the ones who had the foresight to see this day coming, when so many ppl's civil rights may be at jeopardy, when this type of thing would spin out of control. I think that it is much worse that they thought it would be. So, I am going to them.
I don't want to hurt Ed, I want this law to help everyone. Keep the site Ed, just make people stand accountable. Put their real names in there. They will think twice before they do some of the horrible shit they have done to all these people. The first amendment does not allow you to say anything you want and destroy others in the process, it also holds you accountable for your freedom of speech. That is a civil society.
Smitty, Smitty, Smitty. BEAUTIFUL POST. SIMPLY BEAUTIFUL.
Great piece Sarah. As the scourge of Defamation/Slander/ Complaint sites like Ripoff, and several others, still exist. Here are 5 TIPS on what people can do:
Again, follow the money. If the website uses the extortion model to make money, create a large database of people victimized by these sites presently or in the past, and email blast them not to pay. Follow up. If the web site uses the advertising model to make money, then start a campaign and/ or petition against all their advertisers.
Write each advertiser politely that they are advertising with an evil website that harms people’s reputations and does not remove posts. If you get no response, then complain on 5-6 websites about them. See how they like it. They are just as vulnerable as you are. People will get the message. Shut off the money spigot to these sites.
Why people are gullible enough to pay protection money and subsidize these sites is beyond comprehension. The funding has to stop. Also, email your list of victims not to respond to the posts, and give them tips on how to fight back. When you respond on these sites, a flame war starts and that is good for the defamation site and it’s search engine value. If everyone refused to pay and post, these sites would cease to exist.
Permission is granted to edit/ use any text from this post, anywhere.
If Satan is creeping up from hell, this ripoff place is where he is surfacing.
Not long ago someone wrote a report including my name and my company name that included accusing me of fraud, tax evasion, discrimination and more. This showed up all over the web next to my name and company name in the organic search results with 24 hours of the posting. These were in some search results positions that had taken years for me to achieve.
I am a single Dad who is partially blind and turned down disability to earn my living on the Internet with a small business.
I spent nine years developing my 100% web based business with a 100% customer approval rating. Within one week I lost a top client and my business went down 50% in the next few weeks. The posting has destroyed my business. This was my only income.
After nine years of 12 hour days and developing business, I am now bordering on foreclosure which means my young daughter and I will be homeless - we have nowhere else to go.
I found the person who wrote the libel posting and they expressed remorse and offered to remove the erroneous information but have found they CANNOT.
I contacted the ripoff people and they basically said we will not remove the posting so too bad sue us.
So I am considering suing Google and the ripoff.
I am not sure what this will do for my situation but maybe I can help save someone else.
These people and practices MUST be stopped.
We NEED GOD or a class action suit NOW.
Do some homework on these rip people.
Their website is lie after lie.
Charlie Parks
Nice try, "Charlie", but I found no such name in a search for a lawsuit filed by you, nor did I find any Ripoff Reports with your name. Your story sounds very sad and is obviously intended to draw sympathy, but there are several holes. For one, I've seen the letter Ripoff Report sends out to people who request removal, and in no way does it say, "too bad, sue us". It gives concrete advice on how you can combat what you claim is a false report. ROR does not investigate every report because it's always a he said-she said situation, which most good judges can't even figure out.
If it is true that you lost your business because of one false post, then I have to wonder what foundation you have built your business upon. Most good businesses can easily survive one report, particularly if they follow the advice on rebutting that Ripoff Report gives, and especially if they've been in business for "12-hour days over 9 years." There should be enough goodwill with your existing and past customers to combat the one bad comment.
So, I question the validity of this comment and its author. I suspect it's another attempt to defame the character of Magedson and the Ripoff Report. If you are real, give us the name of your business here and we'll research it. God helps those who help themselves.
Here's a thought -- LOTS of people seem to complain that Ripoff Report allows complaints to be posted without any investigation. Well, what if they DID investigate reports? Would that make everyone happy?
Obviously this couldn't be done for free....someone has to pay for the time and effort. So here's the question -- if you had a report on ROR and if ROR was willing to do it, would you agree to pay some amount to have the matter investigated?
If you hired a lawyer to pursue it, the lawyer is going to charge you. If you hired an SEO company to deal with a complaint, the SEO company will charge you. Even if you filed a lawsuit on your own, the courts will charge you filing fees and, of course, there will be lots of other fees for process servers, court reporters, etc. Yet everyone seems to think that ROR has a duty to investigate all 380,000+ reports on the site for free. This might sound great, but it's kind of unrealistic, don't you think?
Well, what if the site WAS willing to investigate reports for a modest fee? Would that resolve your concerns? If not, why not? What else would you suggest that ROR do?
Sure, if you have a complaint on Ripoff Report it's easy to condemn the messenger simply for existing, but this doesn't resolve the problem. If you succeed in getting ROR shut down, it will immediately be replaced by another site that does exactly the same thing.
Maybe it's time to look at finding a solution to the real underlying problem rather than just complaining about it...
Maybe ROR should be more responsible and not allow reports to be indexed by Search Engines and just allow the actual site itself to be indexed. Then if someone wants to do research on a company they could go to the ROR website and look them up.
It goes without saying that when you spam the Google index to ensure when someone types in a companies website that ROR's report on you is on the very first page next to your name they should be accountable for making sure to some degree it is a legitimate reporting and not a disgruntled employee, ex, etc.
This seriously hurts to many legit businesses that have done nothing wrong.
Attached herewith you will find the link to the case. Someone from Arizona would have to pull the case or Sarah Bird Esq would have to answer the question.
My observation is that the best defense against defamation is the truth. No doubt the truth of this subject is far worst that any lies that have been told. There appears to be a practice of discrediting those that tell the truth, as if projecting the image they are incredible will change the truth to a lie.
It seems no one likes to have bad things said about them. It can be presumed that the opinions expressed about Xcentric Ventures, Rip Off Report and Ed Magedson might be harmful to his revenue stream, his emotional well being or his imagined standing in the community. It would seem creating an I love ED website is not enough, it has become necessary to silence dissenters whose cries are a warning claxon about the siren song of the Rip Off Report.
Does this seem odd? That an entire business model is based upon the musings of the consumer and is defended at astronomical cost yet when that business model is used against the creator as much energy is used to make the consumer comments disappear in a wisp of air. Oh if only the subjects of the ROR post could expect the same.
In Frankenstein the monster destroyed the creator.
Speak out…speak loudly. Take it to as many internet parks as you can. Do not be afraid to tell the truth.
In the spirit of fair play, lets give some quality time here for those that have good things to say about Ed Magedson and his business model.
https://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/CivilCourtCases/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2009-002032
And your point is what Barry? Someone writes that a legitimate businss man or woman is not such and this link you have given us balances what? This site we are on, and Sara Bird, have no guile except to stop the guile or expose it, to allow honest men and women to reclaim their business, standing in the community and stop having sand kicked in their face by someone hiding behind the CDA. Did I get that about right? I have some stuff to share, some things that have and are being uncovered recently, but I need to get more info first.
How are all the John Does and Jane Does out there gonna feel if the court rules that their identies are to be handed over? Hmmm? How about that boys and girls? Make you stop a sec and think? If I were in their shoes I would.
Me? I want the CDA changed so no site like the ROR can do this to anyone again. Ever.
Smitty I don’t think your argument is really with the CDA or even the Freedom of Speech as much as it is with ED Magedson. The former allows us to come into this site and rant or vent or cry. This site does allow you to edit your own comments though in case you have regrets over what we may say.
Using the analogy of being a kid in school again, I remember there was always some other kid that had a taste of boogers and paste. Come on we all remember them. They were Xcentric to be sure but they had to the right to coexist with those of us that preferred peanut butter and jelly. Yes there was a bully who took it upon themselves to correct this gastronomical dysfunction but the result was to create a bully that has a taste for boogers and paste.
Pay attention. Magedson spends a great deal of time on the internet looking for those that would keep him from eating to his hearts content. It drives him to distraction when people discuss items about him that polite society finds disconcerting.
It eats up his resources in both time and money to get rid of these items. Find the truth. Get the facts and post them. Post them everywhere and link back to your favorite sites. Make your comments civil and exact. Facts based upon public record and I assure you there is a bunch. Find the public record and make it available to the public.
If he is successful he will remove all items from the internet that don’t have nice things to say about him.
That is too true. You will never see a report on ROR that has anything to say about Ed. No siree. They allow you to write them, they just don't exist as far as anyone finding them.
Can I recommend a free online service to challenge ripoff reports? It's called Untrue Report ...which is basically a free report published online that counters any false, untrue, or malicious statements in a Ripoff report.
It's intended to rank close to the ripoff report and offer facts to refute any false claims which hopefully raise an element of doubt about the validity of the ripoff report.
SEO, ORM, PR, Marketing, and Law firms can work with Untrue Reports on an affiliated basis or in partnership for further services should the victim of the Ripoff report require more help.
(Sarah, someone plug this service pleasee!!!)
Thanks,
Henry
Hi Henry, this is a WARNING about company you wanted plugged called Untrue Report. They are NOT free. In fact, they told me they could remove a negative report on my business on Ripoff Report. After paying their fee, nothing happened. We then were being billed monthly for a 'monthly maintenance' fee which we never signed up for. We tried to cancel the charge with our bank, that did not work either. The only way to stop Untrue Report from billing us, was to close our account. We contacted the Attorney General's Office and Untrue Report claimed that we signed up for a monthly program and they (Untrue Report) sold the 'installment' contract to a finance company so that it was not them who were using the horrid collection practices. That shielded them from the Attorney General. The finance company is owned by the 'Reputation Management' company which owns Untrue Report. Besides being victimized by them, I want to warn anyone joining their affiliate program that they are likely to create more victims like myself. This company is truly horrible.
There's been a lot of chatter here about Google and Ripoff Report. I just saw this from an attendee at PubCon and thought I'd share (see https://www.briancombs.net/?p=655):
"During the Q&A section, the topic of RipOffReport came up. Matt explained that he’s looked at the site, and doesn’t believe their engaged in any SEO spamming. Until/unless they receive a court order telling them to remove it from Google, they will not do so."
I am not a lawyer and can’t give legal advice. It is up to the legal community to ascertain whether he still protected under the safe harbor section of the CDA. Fundamentally it’s up to a judge or jury to make decisions.
The idea that something is repugnant does not make it illegal. Many have weighed in on many different blogs and forums with information that is just incorrect. That said you should spend time reviewing documents for yourself and coming to your own conclusions. The case you discuss has been settled confidentially. Certainly you may have your opinion on it but that’s all it is, an opinion.
I have spent 2 ½ years watching, investigating and profiling the players here. From my point of view, exhibits, testimony and depositions in past cases may conflict with what I have found.
What’s important about all of this? The truth is important. If I am a conman as suggested on the Rip Off Report and folks like “Tina”, then perhaps the world needs to know that. If I am not then the world needs to know that too. What is the truth? DPS says through my licensing and investigation that I am a credible person. I even took the complaint Maria Crimi Speth filed to my state professional association for them to review. The ethics director, who knows me, finds me to be an ethical investigator. I suppose if I am trying to put you in prison, you might have a different opinion and voice it.
Ok so why don’t you have an investigator do a background investigation on you? Post the results on a public forum and your own website. If an honest investigation is done then everything will come out good and bad. That seems to serve the public fairly. Are you willing to submit to this sort of scrutiny? That report could be search engine optimized so that it comes up right along with the Rip Off Report post about you. Course if you have things to hide then you would not want that. That with all the public record could easily negate any of the negative said about you.
I do not have to prove anything. That is not how it works, they have to prove that what they say is true. That is how it works in a court of law sir.
But for the record, I would have no problem having a background check on myself. For the record, until I had to leave my career as a stock broker and financial planner in 2006, as I became disabled with MS as a cognitive issue, I was registered with the SEC holding my series 7, 65, 31 and 63 licenses as well as my life and health. My finger prints are on file. I was lincensed first in 1993. I was subjected to scrutiny every time that I changed broker dealers, which I had to do when I left Dean Witter to open my business in 1996, and then in 2004 when I had to close my investment company due to breast cancer and was forced to work for Wachovia then again in 2005 when I switched to BB&T. I left BB&T in 2006 when diagnosed with MS, and I am on their disability program, and still technically employed with them. I have never been in jail, never been committed to any institution against my will, never had an affair or been unfaithful to my spouse, I have never called any one of my beautiful five daughters a whore. I am not psychotic or a psychopath.
Did my spouse's behaviour that drove me to find that hideous site in 2008 push me over the edge after a battle with many other factors in my life, some of which I detailed above? Hell yes. Are any of the things in the two reports written about me true? No. Did they cause me undue pain, stress, heart break and misery? God yes. Did I start all that shit in motion by first submitting reports myself when I had NO judgement, partly due to my illness and partly due to my situation? yes. Have I paid a huge price, Hell yes.
I have no idea who you are, if you are legitimate or not and do not believe that I have said otherwise. You have implied that you know things, and I would not and have not asked you for legal advise. I simply asked you if you were up to date on any of the ongoing cases, since you seem to be investigating the man in question, and have to wonder why you took such a strong back lash toward me that I think was unwarranted. Why did you post what you did to this site if you did not want comments or questions? What was the purpose?
My scrutiny would reveal a 57 year old grandmother of 12, mother of 5, soon to be a great grandmother. I have had a respectful career, and have the ability to sit down with Jimmy Buffet or Warren Buffet. I am blessed that way. I enjoy being a member of Who's Who for business women in my community. Check my company out. Sterling Investments, Inc. of Winston Salem. incorporated January of 1996 and closed December of 2004 in NC. I lost both breasts to cancer Feb 4 of 2004. End of story. That is me. I have never had a complaint filed against me with the SEC or the NASD, or the state insurance commission. I have never been arrested or been to jail. I raised beautiful healthy successful women, all of whom are married and have homes of their own and have never been to jail and neither have their spouses. They have never come back home. What else would you like to know?????
The true story and possible conspiracy theory against Ed Magedson founder of Ripoffreport.com, of how John F. Brewington, lied in tandem with Shawn Richeson, Lisa Brodkin LA, CA. attorney Asia Economics Institute owned/operated by Raymond Mobrez and Ilianna Llaneras. Lied and falsified information through attempted bribery and coercion incorporated with all manner of trickery.
My name is James P Rogers. I was the Personal Assistant to the Editor- and founder www.Ripoffeport.com, (a popular consumer advocacy website). I am also the one that was taken advantage of, by both John F Brewington of Paladin P.I, which is also Paladin Investigations, who used Shawn Richeson AKA Shawn A Richeson of clickAnerds.com AKA computerNerds.com. There are an additional three more persons/individuals’is which consist of, an attorney, (first introduced to me, by Brewington), in Los Angeles, California, by the name of Lisa Brodkin. Lisa Brodkin, represents two clients whose names are Illiana Llaneras and Raymond Mobrez and together they own and operate this business “Asia Economics”, which I have discovered through many rumors/opinions,(most them coming from John F. Brewington and Shawn Richeson) that simply put say they were laundering money for the Russian Mob. You be judge here. Just an opinion coming from a person who has listened to them all brag about getting away almost with it all. More about that later. I am telling my side and it is by no means a pretty tale but it will be the truth albeit, from a person who has nothing to gain by lying. So read below and gain a better understanding of the lengths that un-honest people will go to, to keep their illegal activities going.
This is my story, of how and why I came to be used by , John F Brewington, Shawn Richeson, Lisa Brodkin and Asia Economics, who were attempting to further fuel their misguided fanatical obsession, of going after ED Magedson founder of www.ripoffreport.comand is going to be a long one.
In the starting/telling of this, (event /story) I must immediately, bring out a truthful fact. Which is both John F Brewington and Shawn Richeson are both convicted felons. Yes, I myself am also We, (everyone of us), all have a past, “that we learned,(or did not learn), from.” I will get into more detail regarding this topic and others but, to gain a better understanding of what, (in my personal opinion), exactly started/made it necessary for this story to be told in, its fullness and entirety. A full ,(unchanged or edited) accounting will, “I feel” be unobtainable, let alone even offered, and I will so continue to name, John F. Brewington, Shawn Richeson, Raymond Mobrez & Illiana Llaneras, and their Attorney Lisa Brodkin as the story unravels below...
Before reading my story below, Take a look at this editorial Reportthat ED Magedson did about the Putt Putt Video. John F. Brewington would not allow ED Magedson or anyone else to post anything to claims he made on the bogus youtube video. Read the report and you be the judge. Report # 526430 or simply follow the this link, https://www.ripoffreport.com/internet/john-f-brewington-pa/john-f-brewington-paladin-inv-d9a79.htm
There things I doubt or have little to no faith in but, this self made youtube video entitled: Putt,Putt Video that John F. Brewington /Paladin PI. , created about ED Magedson/ripoffreport.com, accepting/taking money from a car dealer to remove ripoffrreports’ about them for $500 is false. When you read what he did to me and how he tried to get me to lie (while I was under the influence of a narcotic, methylphenidate, aka (Crystal Meth) and falsify information. I have John F. Brewington on tape, admitting that he knew, ( I was influenced by a narcotic and, not able to discern reality or real thought) that I was susceptible to be coerced in his plotted lies. In further reading my story, you will understand what a twisted and calculating/manipulative coward John F Brewington is. Not to mention, in my opinion, from my personal dealings with this man, he, John F Brewington is a sick twisted, fearfully in-closeted homosexual, (possible gay), himself. . I see why he has his so called offers to help people find their children. For the record, right up front, I am bi-sexual. John Brewington puts the moves on me. More on that and all about me (my full disclosure) in my story below.
Also, the Reports about Shawn Richeson a long time ago were checked out and the people who filed them were real – this was done by ED for FREE years ago. Shawn Richeson admits in emails and in (I believe in a deposition) that he himself filed at least 1 of the Rip-off Reports against himself in an effort to let people think he has government contracts.
Also in my story below is Attorney Lisa Brodkin, she and her clients, Asia Economic Institute, AEI, WorldEcon: Raymond Mobrez And Iliana Llaneras worked with John F. Brewington. Mr. Mobrae admitted in a deposition that he had in the past, talked with John F Brewington. No surprise about the claims made about ED, just like the Putt Putt youtube video. Lisa Brodkin’s clients from Asia Economic Institute, AEI, WorldEcon: Raymond Mobrez And Iliana Llaneras both got caught lying. OK, I should say, they changed their entire story after filing sworn affidavits’ and in deposition, swearing under oath with all kinds of papers filed with the courts under oath, both these people totally recanted their story about ED. In my opinion, this was another John F Brewington attempt to try and destroy one he the kindest, caring and generous people I Know, ED Magedson. Both Raymond Mobrez and Iliana Llaneras said that ED Magedson extorted them for money. The wife IIlana submitted detailed notes as she was eves-dropping on the calls Mr. Mobrez made to ED Magedson. They completely retracted their story when ED had all the conversations tape recorded that matched the exact dates and times as the Mobrez phone bill. I will talk more on this matter later in my story below.
Readers can decide for themselves who they want to believe, like everything else on the Internet. And as ED would say, ...”Same goes for your local newspaper or TV News Stations”.
MY SIDE OF THE STORY YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD FROM JOHN BREWINGTON / PALADIN PI or SHAWN RICHESON of CLICK A NERD aka COMPUTER NERDS: Is incorrect and fabricated by John F. Brewington and Sean Richeson to further their fuel their lies and fraudulent activities, towards ED Magedson and ripoffreport.com.
I was ED Magedson’s personal assistance for about the first 8 months of 2010.
Previously, about 8 years prior, ED and I were dating. Yes, Dating.
Then, ED and I kind of drifted apart because I fell into drugs. Crystal methanphedimeins.
ED won’t even spoke pot, he says that was a thing for him in the 70’s.. and to get him to have a drink, that will only happen over dinner.
It should also be known, that while I was working for ED, he help me go thru collage business courses. ED supported me mentally and gave me the best place a student ask for when studying or taking an exam, working on a paper, a place full of quiet to learn. ED always let me do my school work and allowed and when I needed break from learning I was assisting him, as best I could,. I passed with A’s and a few B’s which granted me a GPA of 3.45. All thanks to ED.
Mr Brewington sot me out by coming to my parents home in Mesa Arizona on or about in April of 2010 asking me if would be willing to give up info on ED Magedson to please call him. This was right after I fell off the wagon, so I did not let ED know about John Brewington’s visit with me. I had noticed his older big white pickup. John Brewington told me I could make thousands of dollars. When I repeated it to him and said, “I could make thousands of dollars” John Brewington responded with, “actually, you can make tens of thousands of dollars for the right information about ED” He said he wanted me to talk with an attorney in Los Angeles, California, that they would pay me thousands for good information about ED. John Brewington said he already knew where ED lived that he did not need that info. I told Brewington that I was not interested and walked away from him. Truthfully, I wanted to take him up on his offer because I needed more money, money for my crystal meth habit.
About 2 months later, while on a crystal-meth binge, I needed money bad. I went looking for Brewington’s number. I could not find it so I went onto the Internet and emailed him and placed called the number listed and left a voice message saying I maybe had possible information regarding ED.
So, our conversations stated, – most of which I have recorded, (more than likely before Brewington started recording).
Brewington first wanted me to talk with Shawn Richeson. Brewington said he did not want ED’s address to be given to him by me, he wanted me to give that info to Shawn Richeson who would pay me money for information.
Brewington kept urging me to tell Richeson about any sexual encounters I had with ED. The more good stuff I would give to Richeson, the more money I would get from both Richeson and Brewington. Brewington promised if I would press charges against ED for sexual harassment that I would be rewarded in a big way. Through our different conversations as I will explain later in this story, Brewington was interested in me making up anything I can about sexual things ED did wrong. For the record, there was never anything ED did that was improper – I kept telling Brewington that, but he kept on pressing every time he was on the phone with me and in person.
So, Brewington ended up giving my phone # to Richeson. Shawn Richeson of ComputerNerds AKA clickAnerd. In my opinion, this guy is a sick demented person. If you’ve read this story on Rip-off Report: #526430
https://www.ripoffreport.com/internet/john-f-brewington-pa/john-f-brewington-paladin-inv-d9a79.htm
(The only thing Report # 526430 leaves out, and which no one seems to mention is that Brewington has a criminal record, which he bragged to me about,(and then later tries to intimidate,(and inadvertently threaten), me with later) he did prison time and or knows many people from prison that will do anything for him he asks, or so he said to me as well..)
Shawn Richeson promised me $500 per phone call interview – and there were at least 3 that I a can actively remember fully.
Shawn Richeson also changed at least one tape he put on the internet. I have the same calls. Shawn Richeson did as he has admittedly done in the past to ED Magedson, he altered the tapes.
I taped almost all my calls with Shawn Richeson. Everyone of them. On one of the tapes Shawn Richeson brags about him porking the next door neighbor that comes over to do work for him.
Once Brewington said to me he wanted me to make up stories about ED maybe doing sexual impropriatories, John Brewington wanted me to lie and say that ED Magedson created the reports on ripoffreport.com. Maybe I was coming in and out of my drug induced stupor; something told me to tape all my calls. I was realizing what a scumbag Brewing is. Just wait, you haven’t heard the worst yet.
As soon as I gave my interview Richeson posted it onto the Internet when he promised me, ED would not know about this for many months! In less than 1 hour it was up on the Internet – Richeson never paid me a dime.
Now that I gave ED’s address (a previous address) to Richeson, both John Brewington and Shawn Richeson started posting it on the Internet. They both told me ED would not know about this for a long time to come. I was thinking in my head that this would give me time to get more out of ED. Yes, I was being evil.
Brewington even admitted that Russians wanted ED’s address to kill him. This was after I had the interview with Richeson. I started to worry. His continual push for me to go to police and get ED charged with sexual harassment, this was starting to sound ludicrous. I wanted to tell Brewington, you cannot rape the willing. NO such thing ever happened, I kept telling Brewinton this, but, he kept pushing. Both Brewington and Richeson knew I was doped up. I admittied it to both of them from the beginning, but they did not care. I saw an email from Richeson that notifired the ripoffreport attorneys that he had the tapes of me and he admits right in the email to the attorneys that he, Shawn Richeson knew that I, James P Rogers was all doped up. But he failed to leave out that he and Brewington both offered me thousands of dollars to make up stores about ED.
In all reality I gave them nothing. A recently old address that ED was renting along with a few made up comments that were all false.
IN recent court papers Richeson and Lisa take something I said about ED wanting me to create different email address to post on blogs to defend what people were saying about him and Rip-off Report. I told them, that never came about, I never did that. And what these liars turned it into was, they said I said I posted on ripoffreport.com ! that never happen once and I never said that. Even that attorney who heard the same tape said that in her filings with the court. I will get to Attorney Lisa Borodkin later in this story.
Over about a 3 week period Richeson kept calling me – telling me he sent the money to me but he must had done something wrong. Shawn – I have have it all on tape.
About a week after I talked with Richeson, John Brewington of Paladin PI contacted me and said he wanted me to do an internever with him. We met at the Bill Johnson’s steak house in Mesa Arizona on Main Street.
Right up front on the tape, John F Brewington of Paladin PI / Paladin Investigations admits that we was paying me an undisclosed amount of money. I thought I was getting $5,000 plus the money that Shawn Richeson never paid to me but, all I got was $2,600. About 1 wekk later John Brewington came to my home. He acted wired. He brought me a cheap bike. He then took me to Wal-Mart to get me a computer. He had promised me a real lap-top because at the time, ED would not let me have the company laptop he was letting me use. So, when we went to Wal-Mart all I got was a cheap note book. This was not anything I could use even for collage. I realized more, this was more John F Brewington lies. There were several times I figured Brewington was recording me when he said, “You know, we can’t pay you for your testimony” !! I knew this guy was a creep and a big liar. OK, I know, I’m on crystal-meth and did prison time, I am not forgetting that. But, as we all k now, that does not mean I am not telling the truth. So, the next thing that happened that fairthfull day when John F Brewington / Paladin PI took me to Wal-Mart . Here, John was being all kind to me making it look like he was just helping me. He directs me to put the computer in my house and to come back out and talk with him in his truck. A truck by the way that smelled like ??????? When I get back into the truck, Brewington had his zipper open. He grabs my hand and asked me if I would give him a blow job! I said, Brewington, are you out of your mind? Do you think because I am gay or bi-sexual that I will just make it with anyone! He then said, “well, you have had all those encounters with ED” I pushed him away, I told him he was fucking out of his mind. I also told him that is where that strange odor comes from. I told him to take a damn shower and I got out of his truck and never herd from him again except for one text I got from him that said,“seize the day”
I know John Brewington has it in his mind that NO ONE WILL BELIEVE JAMES because he ‘s Paladin PI. Brewington is like the priest who molests his flock, or like the Senator from Midwest??? That voted against Gays and got caught by police playing footzies in the men’s room at the airport.
Brewington and Richeson, please bring it on. I am anxious to see what you have to say to everyone.
John Brewington also contacted Lisa Brodkin, the attorney for Asia Economics. Talk about dishonest lawyers.
Lisa at one point said to me (I have it on recording) for me to load up a suit case. Lisa was referring to ED’s personal documents that I can steal from ED and bring to her in Calirforna . Lisa and her clients had purchased me several plain tickets.
Anyone thinking of hiring John F. Brewington, would find it best to check with DPS first. From what I am told by a visitor several weeks ago, Brewington is not liked by DPS and anyone wanting to hire him should first ask for a copy of his file, his PI file. You will not want this guy to even investigate who might have gotten your dog pregnant let alone ask him to testify. Brewington also lies under oath.
Anytime I told John Brewington all the good things ED Magedson did, Brewington would always find some comment to say “well ED is doing this”or ED must be doing that”. Each time I told him, no, that’s not the way it is. I kept telling Brewington as time went on (over a 2 to 4 week period) that everything thing he claims about ED, and the things he wants me to make up about ED are all false.
When I explained to John Brewington that other copy-cat websites like PissedConsumer.com and Complaintsboard, and about 3 others that have become popular, all took (scraped) content from ripoffreport.com . Some settled with ED our of court paying a lot of money, Complaintsboard.com paid a large judgment thru the California court system. Anyone can look things like that up, just Google Xcentric Ventures. Complaintsboard. Brewington just said it was a lie and that ED must have lied about it.
I explained to Brewington about ED’s project (ED says his last project) to save all dogs in the USA from ever getting put to sleep because they have no home, John Brewington did not want to hear about it. This is an ambitious project that I helped ED with doing a detailed business plan. This involves ED taking over large closed down shopping centers and doing some very innovative and creative things that is sure to work. ED is going to put more than $4 million dollars of his own money into the project which will be a 501 3 (c) non-profit business/organization.
I also explained to Brewington on how ED arranged for an air-conditioner for my family. ED did this because my mom had cancer and for over 2 years all my family had was a swamp cooler. ED and I were not even in touch for over 3 years. ED would call my family to see how they were doing. ED got a member of the Corporate Advocacy Program to get him an air-conditioner for wholesale. ED then, with the help of one of his many lawyers got someone from the LDS church to install the brand new air-conditioning unit on my parents home. This is how ED is with, (not only people he knows), but with people he does not know.
I told Brewington about how ED champions the Day Labor workers and helps them for Free. ED realized back in 1990 that the workers coming here from Mexico and South America were being taken advantage of by many of the white businesses. These businesses would work them (mostly illegal) and not pay them after working them for the day, many were worked for a full week, then threatened at the end of the week, that if they said something, they would get them deported. Many would be dropped off many miles away from home, throwing their bike out of the pick up along with the worker. Go to this link and read about what ED wrote many years ago about this. This problem still persists today.
John Brewington has an obsession to get ED. To find anyone he can that is mad about a ripoffreport being filed against them and trying to get them to lie about ED, just like he did with me, paying me to lie. Brewington actually was, “Coaching” me before he records me so I would get paid. I am sure that is exactly what he did with the youtube Putt Putt video. All John Brewington cares about is to find a way to stop ED and ripoffreport.com. John Brewington would keep prodding me to go to police and claim sexual harassment. I told Brewington you cannot harass the willing and our relationship was never that way. If anything when we first met, I was the aggressor.
John Brewington bragged to me on how he helped bring down ripoffreport about 2 years ago with D-Dos attacks and that ED must have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to prove that and he lost. That comment Brewington made to me was probable the only thing that was true. ED did lose that case when he sued Brewington. I do know that ED is appealing that case as the Judge in the case ignored the law and the hard evidence. Then Brewington said that ED sued him because he knew I carried a lot of insurance. I asked Brewington, how would ED know that you had insurance? I never got an answer. I do know that ED had no way of knowing John Brewington and Paladin PI, Paladin Investigations had insurance. I would imagine that was a pleasant surprise when ED and his lawyers found out.
While I was investigating what John Brewington and Shawn Richeson had put on the internet about me, double crossing me, I found out that John Brewington has about 3 maybe 5 different judgements, large judgements listed against him. I remember Brewington said that ED has judgements against him, I told him I know about that judgment from a country in the West Indies , the island of Nevis. ED was never notified there was any case there, he was never notified. That same company ended up coming to New Jersey and suing ED, and they did not win. I know that ED has never lost a case when he has been sued. ED Magedson should be complimented and celebrated for all the work and money he put into protecting our 1st amendment when using the Internet. I Know ED Magedson will go down in history as a great man who championed the less fortunate (way before he started ripoffreport.com) and how he has helped millions of people ???
John Brewington says his next target is closing down complaintsboard, one of the money companies that ripped off all the content from ripoffreport.com as I explained above. Brewington brags that he is friends with them, but he does not trust them. Compalintsboard.com is owned by people out of Latvia, somewhere in Europe.
John F Brewington in my opinion is a very deceitful man. Every bad thing he says
I know that when Brewington sees this he will be busy blogging and saying how I am a 5 time felon and on drugs. No John Brewington, I am not anymore. Hopefully this time around I will not fall off the wagon. How DPS, Department of Public Safety in Arizona gave John Brewington (a felon) a PI license is scary. As ED said many times, that someone like this is in our court rooms testifying under oath about cases he might investigate for people who will only become victims because he is a pathological liar as I have seen fist had. Yes, I have my past. But I have tried to be a better person. Not one of my crimes from the past has anything to do with stalking or hurting anyone. Well, I take that back. Once when I was on drugs and being arrested, the officer was using excessive force on me, so I was charged with assaulting an office. A common false claim made by officers, many to get paid leave like they were hurt in my opinion. But, my Felonies were never about hurting anyone. John Brewington’s crimes are. Anyone can contact the Arizna Department of Public Safety and get a copy of John F Brewington / Paladin PI file. I have heard ED give good advise to anyone hiring a PI. Always find out what is in their file. If you need them to testify and give you any kind of report, you need to have a PI that has a clean background. Most PI’s are retired cops or military people from what I am told. John Brewington is a PI who kept writing to the DPS board and talked his way in. In my pwn person opinion, John Brewington is a dishonest con-man. Anyone who has experienced him over the many years, knows, he is a liar. He is also a closeted gay man who is not man enough to admit his sexuality. As I know first had from what he tried to do to me as I explained at the beginning of my story.
For the record. ED Magedson has enfatically said to me, and is going to probally be mad as hell at me again, that I should not say anything about my experience with both John Brewington and Shwan Richeson. ED has always said, and believes that everyone usually ends of getting what they have coming to them. Karma comes back to those whom put too much negative out. Normally ten or is it 7 fold I cannot remember fully the saying. You get the point though. ED has not and will not stop me from telling , (this story as many times as I need to) the world about John F. Brewington criminal and deceitful, let’s not forget hidden, closeted, and gay tendencies.
??need good quote from ED) saying)
Again, read Report #526430
https://www.ripoffreport.com/internet/john-f-brewington-pa/john-f-brewington-paladin-inv-d9a79.htm
True Accounting,
What Really Happened,
James Rogers
Who cares about your story man. The bottom line is the RipOffReport is a bullshit business that ruins people's lives. Everyone knows this ROR can try to cover this up, but it will only take ONE PERSON to be pissed off and sue the shit out of all you morons until you can't breathe - you'll be shut down. The clock is ticking. It WILL happen. Karma is a BITCH. =)
Right on ok12O-no-one believes that Magedson is a saint.
As a non US resident I cannot sue ROR but I have sued Google and they have, to date, removed some of the links to the ROR reports. Unfortunately, at some point it may hit the media. I dread this.
I can say from the hearing that the argument that websites can act with impunity and destroy people is NOT embraced in the world outside the USA.
deleted repeated comment
BTW, is the line need a good quite from ed saying??? a typo? It looks like the wrong version of the post was uploaded. In other words it looks like it was a version that was sent to ED to edit....ooooooppppssss!!!!!
I just wanted to add a few more comments with respect to the differences in law.
1. According to the statement of claim in their action against scaminformer.com (filed recently) 'content monitors' check all the reports and the website does not publish everything submitted. If the website was based in Australia that would be an admission of liability under our law because anyone who has participated in publication can be sued. Of course Ripoff Report does not have assets here so we cannot sue them but Google does.
2. Thanks to the SEO community we can prove that Google had prior knowledge of Ripoff Report and therefore the defence of innocent dissemination will not fly.
3. We were directed to the communications of a senior Google person called Cutts who said he investigated them in his blog and that will be entered into evidence. We will have to get the courts permission to subpoena him but it shouldn't be too difficult. He may not be pleased about it but as he is a senior global employee and we are suing both Google AU and Google Inc so he will have no choice. We are appreciative for the information because this will be a landmark case in AU.
4. The comments from this blog, particularly those by ok120 alerted me to the fact that one of the Google founder's name was changed in a Ripoff Report, so thank you.
5. Google appear to act if they are facing embarrassment. A website was at the top of Google in a search for designer eyewear - until he embarrassed them in a very public forum - the NY Times.
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/business/28borker.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/13/business/13borker.html -
Not for nothing but the only one's who do not like ROR or it's founder is/are the ones it does the most damage,(tells the truth or brings to light illegal and unethical practice's of business's and individuals) that other's do not fall prey to the same. I am not some paid spokesman and I do not know you from ADAM so, with said have tried posting a free rebuttal to whatever it is that is written about you. ROR does allow and have that option. Since I ado not know what was written and cannot for the record do I even care who or what it and I am in no way speaking for ROR as I am an outside observor just telling it like it is. If your an honest individual this should suffice and give you the oppurtunity to change. I don't care as I have said.
Not for nothing but the only one's who do not like ROR or it's founder is/are the ones it does the most damage,(tells the truth or brings to light illegal and unethical practice's of business's and individuals) that other's do not fall prey to the same. I am not some paid spokesman and I do not know you from ADAM so, with said have tried posting a free rebuttal to whatever it is that is written about you. ROR does allow and have that option. Since I ado not know what was written and cannot for the record do I even care who or what it and I am in no way speaking for ROR as I am an outside observor just telling it like it is. If your an honest individual this should suffice and give you the oppurtunity to change. I don't care as I have said.
Not for nothing but the only one's who do not like ROR or it's founder is/are the ones it does the most damage,(tells the truth or brings to light illegal and unethical practice's of business's and individuals) that other's do not fall prey to the same. I am not some paid spokesman and I do not know you from ADAM so, with said have tried posting a free rebuttal to whatever it is that is written about you. ROR does allow and have that option. Since I ado not know what was written and cannot for the record do I even care who or what it and I am in no way speaking for ROR as I am an outside observor just telling it like it is. If your an honest individual this should suffice and give you the oppurtunity to change. I don't care as I have said.
You know James you said that three damn times and I have no idea what it means. If you are saying that those of us who do not like ROR and or Ed are the ones who have been harmed by the posts on there, well duh! For the record, I am a posting person. And received a post as retribution. So, I stand on both sides of the fence.
But I have the distinction of begging to have a personal post or posts removed. I was in a horrible, painful place brought to me that I never asked for and there was no where to turn, no way to balance the scales, so much betrayal I can honestly say I probably was one inch from out of it. I do not know how I found that site, had never seen it before, would never have posted on it if I had realized I could not alter it or take it down. And I think the fact that I accidentially put that I had been married for 7 years when I meant 37, and tried to fix it like four times, kept adding to the post, adding rebuttals over and over, is proof of that, in the rebuttals I am saying, I cannot fix this. So, I would never have done that. It was out of character for me.
With all that said James, if the site protected the posted as it did the site owner, it would be exactly what it claims to be. The posts would be honest. And for the record, my posts are true. But, true does not have to be flapping in the wind. When I came to my senses, I thought about my children, grand children, etc. I lashed out and then realized how I hurt them. To hell with the perpetrators. There were innocents hurt.
But, I am not that type of person period. Personal posts should not be on a consumer site. I cannot got to the BBB and file a claim against my friends who betrayed me with my husband can I? And, the other part is, if ppl put their names on their reports, they will keep it real. They are not going to go on a campaign to destroy someone with a lie.
That is the problem with the CDA. It should protect ED. I am all for that, it just fell short. No one should be able to put a bag on their head and destroy anyone elses life, that is not freedom of speech, that is chicken shit, evil and wrong. If you believe what you are saying, if you believe in freedom of speech, take the bag off. Just like you have to do in the newspaper, on TV and in every other type of media.
Ed has protection. That is all the rest of us want. And will get because of FB and other areas that are sending so much to the world. This is like the wild west, unchartered territory. James, there are a lot of sick ppl out there who get off on this, and who can expend stalking energy on the site. And, the part that makes me sick is all that ROR has to do to uncover it is look at the IP Addys to stop it and be a stand up part of all of this. Therein comes the rub and the extreme dislike.
If all the ppl who had bad posts on ROR and were angry with Ed and his attornyes were on here posting, this thing would be a million pages long. The ppl who deserve the posts and I do think that there are legitimate posts on there, do not come here. What you see here, I believe for the most part, are the maimed and wounded who do search for help and others who have been harmed. The ones who have earned the reports do not come hunting help, with a few exceptions. IMO.
Sorry for the typos guys. I am really losing my eyesight. I hope to start therapy for this new diagnosis,it is CIDP, a chronic form of Gullien Barre, and I hope that I will regain what I have lost in the way of walking, using my arms and hands, etc. Just waiting on blood work. Just keep your fingers crossed this is all CIDP, and not the brain tumor at all. At one point they thought this was all the B12 deficiency, and once that was corrected and I continued to worsen, they had to look further. So, heres to it!!
oops, replied to wrong post..
Did you not post this same thing a couple months ago? You don't need to keep posting it. We read it. I promise. For real. Why would you try to call someone out gay? Do you have a problem with someone being gay? Is this a bashing? James, pick what you say carefully. I don't care if he is gay, I believe that you said that you are as well, as is Ed? Bravo. Who cares? I am a heterosexual. Yes, I admit it. I am coming out to the world today. I am not gay. Please do not hold it against me.
If I may be so bold, you all seem to be very proud of the fact that you have exposed an inter-net leach. But what of the thousands of consumers that feel victimized every day. I for one am one of those victims and I am out $5,600.00 to a company that was on RoR.
Mr. Miller, is it possable that your company pissed off a customer a great deal, to a point they felt RoR was their only out, or were you just a victim too? I think that it was totally wrong for RoR to want to charge you to rebut. I am sorry for all of the companies that had to pay blood money to RoR in order to clear their good names.
That said, right, wrong, or indifferent the real fact still remains, there are companies that take advantage of the consumer every day just because they can. I can tell you this much, we do need something like RoR in order that the average consumer stands a fighting chance against the companies that seem to use the loop holes in the system to prey with total disregard for ethics.
I will say sadly that my post on Mr. Magedson's RoR site is no where to be found. I can not afford the approximant $12,000.00 it would cost to sue in order to get back my $5,600.00 so what do we do? My guess is RoR took a pryoff to proclaim that the company, that got me, is a stellar and shining example of how a company should handle its customer service. Without some kind of consumer advocacy, it will be business as usual for the vultures and the victims.
I have a suggestion if I may take my boldness a bit further. Why don't some of the high end bloggers out here in cyber space come up with a court of sorts where these things can be tried on the inter-net. That way, those of us that feel like we have been victimized, company and consumer alike, win, lose, or draw, will get some kind of satisfaction that did not cost twice what the losses were in the first place.
Two other thoughts on this are: 1. Keep the damn lawyers totally out of it. The only ones that will get any kind of satisfaction with these clowns in the middle of it will be lawyers. (aka, I GET ALL MINE UP FRONT THANK YOU). 2, you might want to get this going before the FEDS get in the middle of it. We all know what happens when the FEDS get in the middle of something, don't we. (and I STILL GET ALL OF MINE UP FRONT).
I thank those of you that will read this.
Best regards to you all.
Smitty,
Your post raises several questions, and I will do my best to answer them all. However, as I already said, I'm not Ed and I don't pretend to understand every detail of his decision-making process. As such, all I can do is to try and answer your questions to the best of my ability.
Your first question was basically this -- why don't we take down reports when the AUTHOR asks us to (as opposed to someone else)? There are many policy reasons for this and it sounds like you have already heard some of them, but let me offer a couple of obvious ones - 1.) we don't want companies to pressure people into removing true statements in exchange for money, so we eliminate that incentive by not allowing reports to be removed; 2.) we don't want our users to post complaints against companies and then demand money to remove them since this actually could qualify as extortion, so we remove that danger by not allowing reports to be removed; 3.) unlike the BBB which removes reports after a short time (36 months), we want to build a permanent record in order to give consumers more information rather than less; 4.) when we receive a takedown request from an "author" we never know if we're dealing with the real author or someone just claiming to be the author (and NO, it's not enough that the request is submitted by someone who knows your login/password).
I could go on, but the basic fact is that Ed Magedson feels that consumers have the right to review the thoughts and opinions written by others, and removing posts defeats that goal. Is that unfair? Well, perhaps, but it is exactly the same as the policy adopted by most courts which never delete case files and other public records, even when a defendant is found not guilty. No matter how meritorious the claims were (or weren't) there is still value in seeing what was said and how it was resolved. Think about it this way – Sarah’s article (which was published nearly two years ago) includes a list of numerous cases which accuse ROR of all sorts of nasty conduct. Even though ALL of these cases have since been resolved in our favor, Sarah’s blog has not been deleted, has it? Is that fair?
In any event, if people don't want to post complaints which are permanent, the solution is simple -- don't post them on Ripoff Report! Our policy on this issue is explained not once but twice before authors are allowed to post anything, so it's not fair to claim that we somehow hide this from our users.
Your second question asks why we allow personal complaints if the site is supposed to be limited to consumer issues. Honestly Smitty, I will answer that question as best I can but I have to confess -- this is a strange question coming from you considering that you have said you posted four reports on ROR talking about your ex-husband and his cheating on you. Are those really consumer issues? If not, why are you attacking ROR for allowing the exact content you posted on there yourself?
I do understand and appreciate your plight -- you say that you made these posts at a time when you were upset and maybe you weren't thinking clearly. Okay, fair enough. If that's the case, you should simply post an update to your comments stating that you want to retract them, etc. Sure, this might not be 100% as good as taking the comments down completely, but it should be good enough for most purposes.
Look, the bottom line always becomes this -- just like SEOmoz and most other sites, we generally permit our users to say anything they want. We have guidelines and we do try to screen stuff that is obviously inappropriate, but otherwise, we're not in a position to police each of the 500,000 reports and millions of comments on the site by saying, "Hey, that comment contains 49% personal remarks and 51% consumer opinion, so we'll post it, but the next one won't get posted since it only has 39% consumer opinion." We just can't make these types of content-based distinctions.
Your third point implies that rebuttals (which ROR openly encourages) are really a sly way of increasing our Google page ranking. Honestly, I am glad you raised this point because it deals with something else that concerns me. In some of the prior comments on here, it has been suggested that posting rebuttals will cause a report to appear higher in Google than it would without the rebuttal. This begs the question – what evidence does anyone have that this is true???
I certainly have never seen any evidence of this. Given that rebuttals are VERY useful tools for mitigating criticism, I don’t understand the origin of the myth about rebuttals affecting Google page ranking for reports. I think this is one of those urban legend things that SOUNDS plausible (like the one about pigeons exploding if you feed them Alka-Seltzer), but it’s really just pulp fiction.
Look – I work for ROR and I have NO clue whether rebuttals make any difference in how our pages are ranked. My feeling is that Google is a damn smart group of folks and they have designed their algorithms in such a way that obvious trickery is completely disregarded. As such, I have to believe they have found ways to make sure that all pages are ranked solely according to one thing – their relevance.
Plus, even if posting a rebuttal caused a Ripoff Report page to rank higher in Google, I still don’t think that’s a reason to leave a complaint unanswered. As someone who has read more than my share of these things, I will tell you that I have seen some EXTREMELY well-done rebuttals. In fact, some of them are so good, they make the reader forget anything negative in the original report. Obviously, deciding whether to do a rebuttal is a personal choice, and maybe rebuttals are not right for every situation (though the only one that comes to mind is if the report is true and the subject of the report doesn’t deny the claims). Still, telling people to be afraid of rebuttals based on your theory that they affect Google ranking without any evidence to support such a claim seems a little irresponsible.
Now, your fourth question is really just a repeat of the first – you continue to question why ROR won’t allow you to remove your report. Smitty, I don’t know what to tell you beyond what I have already said. Again, I am sorry that you did not understand the rules of our site before you used it (four times), but I don’t think that’s our fault. Anyone who disagrees with those rules is free to vote with their keyboard by declining to use our site.
Actually – one final comment about your situation – we CAN and sometimes DO redact home addresses from reports when the facts make it clearly appropriate to do so. Now, you haven’t listed the reports at issue, but if you email me a link to them, perhaps I can see about getting the address removed. Would that be at least a step in the right direction?
~David
[email protected]
P.S. There are lots of other topics to discuss including the Corporate Advocacy Program, but since you aren’t a CAP member, let me deal with the more pressing issues first and then we’ll eventually talk about CAP if you really want.
Smitty,
Email him and catch a lawsuit. Nice trap, David.
I would suggest to anyone NOT to contact an attorney for ROR who will undoubtedly use any communication against you if you are not prepared.
"David" should likely churn this case for all its worth, but in the end ROR will fall. There is too much anti-ROR public sentiment. In the meantime, David can get paid - in my opinion, that's what this is about for him.
ROR goes after anything that is Anti-ROR with a vengence... which is why, even after suing SEOmoz - which is laughable - David still is now showing up in the comments section here. Because he sees that now he cannot fight this thread, even though he is trying desperately to get it removed.
Once more Senators, Judges, Mayors, Attorneys, Doctors, etc. get wind of this ROR fiasco, it will come down. It must.
Someone mentioned somewhere they wanted to post rediculous things randomly on ROR about all of the most important people they could think of so that they would rank high in ROR for absolutely incorrect accusations. These important people will not stand for this, but ROR will let you post this if you want to take advantage of ROR's strange, high rankings in Google and you feel that these "important people" have wronged you, or you simply feel like posting false things about them anonymously on the internet.
Why is ROR hosted in Turkey David with no clear-cut US presence? Sure, they have a right to be, but why is ROR hiding from the people that want answers?
Why was ROR removed from MSN and Yahoo's Search listings David?
ROR is quite simply considered by most to be the scum of the internet. This thread confirms that, and even in your own comment you basically acknowledge that this is true.
Standing behind "upopular loopholes in law" is likely not a good long-term legal strategy, although it can make attorneys fairly wealthy.
If you don't change reports, why was Sergey Brin's report changed David? Why did you change his name in that report? Very interesting, indeed. You better convince "Xcentric" you're really doing a good thing here and milk as much cash as possible because there is no winning this one long-term.
reply to:
https://www.seomoz.org/blog/the-anatomy-of-a-ripoff-report-lawsuit#jtc101996
Right, you still get paid, either way.
ROR is not the "good guy".
Here's a question for you David: why not simply disallow anonymous comments on your site? What's the downside for you there? Your response is likely to be that there is no "need to" and that other "message boards" don't. But, really, why not do that - and it will take ALL of the heat off of you. You still want some heat on you - or you want to hide behind the "law" for some reason... what makes it so beneficial for you to have this heat on you? Just for more indexed pages in a search engine that will eventually remove you (Google) after more and more heat builds. What's the downside to not allowing anonymous complaints? There is none.
BTW: You will end up actually hurting your company by getting involved with this thread and attempting this cover-up. Nice work.
I can't wait for your BS response. Lets hear this BS, because its BS and its coming... I know it is. And it says more about YOU then us... the hundreds and thousands that want ROR taken down. You can try to belittle people and companies who want you taken down, but it will only add fuel to the fire. Try to speak down to us - try to talk trash, put your "spin" on things. That'll do you a lot of good. =)
You're getting paid now for damage control. That's what you're on this thread to do. 99% to 100% lies?
Ok answer this:
If you don't change reports, why was Sergey Brin's report changed David? Why did you change his name in that report? It WAS definitely changed and you DEFINITELY changed it. And you DEFINITELY just purposefully dodged the question.
Answer this:
Who - what person - owns Xcentric Ventures, LLC?
Why will you not answer those questions? You and I both know why.
You claim me to be spitting inaccuracies, but then, you're an attorney. You get paid to tell people what they are saying is inaccurate and then give your own inaccurate side of the story.
Why are your servers located in Turkey? You'll claim you don't know - you're not a "Tech Guy" or something.. but you and I both know the reason.
You're suing SEOMoz and you're trying to play "nice guy" customer service agent in this thread... HAHAAHA.. you have to be kidding.
You're DEFINITELY here to sue people. You've already done so with the author of this thread. You're out of your mind.
BTW: What's your full name and what state are you located in so we can look up your credentials as an attorney?
You think MSN and Yahoo are going to listen to "people who lied to them" and remove a site from its rankings? They are huge companies and wouldn't do so without go reason. That's an insane response. They removed ROR because it is trash.
You'll "correct them". No, you really should "correct" your business model and advise your client - the mysterious wizard of oz who owns ROR - to do so immediately, because it will not work out for them at the end of the day. That's for certain.
For everyone who is interested, here's the report that was changed:
https://www.ripoffreport.com/Sex-Offenders/Soney-Bonoi/soney-bonoi-ripoff-santa-monic-pbd55.htm
Used to be Sergey Brin, one of the founders of Google, however it was changed. All of that is discussed here:
https://www.97thfloor.com/blog/public-spam-report-google-your-honeymoon-with-rip-off-report-has-to-stop/
And you'll see in the comments, eventually the post is actually changed - read comment from May 20th, 2008 at 2:18 pm where someone notices the name change.
Don't worry, I would not give him air if he was in a jar. He is not a nice person, he is the enemy, imo. He came here to do what? Put something to rights? Dude, Mr. House Counsel, crawl on back over to the dark side. We are doing fine over here in the light. We have your number and we know the score just fine. I will not give up working on this trying for changing the CDA. I do hope that Ed M. goes to jail and if you, Mr. House, are in collusion, well, what goes around, you know. I am just a person our here in America trying to live my life, making mistakes and begging for help from a baseless, heartless man and entity. I am a sick woman, I am made sicker by this entity. IF I ever do have the opportunity to be before a judge, I will play very well I think. This whole things kills me, it puts me down for days sometimes. No, I will not give him anything.
I have never read a bigger bag of crap and BS in my life. You should be ashamed of yourself, you should never have come to this site. IMO, you are a disgrace to the bar, to mankind and you must be related to Ed.
I could vomit over your response. It is the worst thing you could have said. You have incited us, been unhelpful and have made matters ten times worse by showing your face on this site. I will say what I have to say and never speak to you again. You are sickening.
How do I know that if you do not rebut you are in better shape? There were three reports that the unbalanced person posted about me on ROR. Only one had rebuttals placed on it, with several of my friends and family joining in. It, in turn, tagged other reports, the ones that I posted, so that if the women in question are googled, not only do their reports come up, the nasty one that is a total lie about me comes up with theirs. The reports that I posted are all true and not written in a nasty manner. So, what about the other two that this woman wrote about me that were not rebutted? They have disappeared. They are gone. How is that for a reason not to rebut? It is not irresponsible. Because of the rebuttals placed on the one report, that report comes up when any of the others I posted are googled. So in essence now when you google any of the mistresses that I placed reports about on ROR, you also get the one on me along with theirs BECAUSE of the rebuttal.
Yes, I am ashamed of the reports. Horrifically ashamed. More ashamed that I can ever declare or tell you. I wrote the frigging things. How would you, Ed or any of the minions he hires doubt that? You only have to cross reference all the materials at question to know this. Your reasons to not remove this are stupid and make no sense and only serve to keep your rankings on Google. End of story. You will never, ever convince a single soul otherwise. Stop trying. You were dropped from the other search engines because you are disreputable, have harmed innocent ppl. The mere fact that one person can create multiple personas and post reports about one business to put it out of business, does that not concern you at all? Are you not aware that there are ppl on ROR who have restraining orders against them who now use ROR as their sick method of torture, because the person they are stalking cannot prove who they are? Do I know this is happening, yes I do. Will I prove it to you, I will not give you one ounce of anything, I will not deal with you, I will not tell you squat. You are employed by a person who has allowed my life to be shredded, has no compassion for a situation that hell yes, I created, Me, I did it. I admit this freely. You cannot come on here and chide me, tell me anything about what I have done. But let me tell you something Mr. House Counsel, I am not well. I suffer with MS, which is cognitive, I struggle with decision making issues in normal times, but when all this information was lain at my feet, and my life was turned upside down, and there was nowhere in the world to turn to make it right, somehow in my mind, and God knows how I found that horrible site, writing that mess in a frenzy of pain and anguish, seemed right. But, very quickly afterward I knew it was NOT right. Read the fine print? Know it was there forever? No, I had never even heard of ROR. Never. So kill me. I was recovering from a bilateral mastectomy, breast cancer. I did not need any more.
For every situation, there should be consideration. The fact that your boss behaves in a nonhuman manner is reprehensible to me. I will have you know that Complaints,com removes reports when they are enlightened about the reports, when facts are brought to them, or they can read the reports when they are brought to their attention and they can see the author is not "right". That it is a revenge issue and it is a report with no merit. But not good ole Ed. No he prides himself in all his reports, oh, except the ones on there about HIM. Why do they not come up on Google? Can you answer that? Why, when you do a search on ROR, why do allll the reports filed on there about Ed M. not come up? Hmmmm? There are hundreds of them filed against him on his site. He certainly censors those. How can he do that, how can he be so biased towards protecting his little self and screw the rest of us, when the reports against him are most likely legit? I know that the one posted about me is a complete and utter lie. Who cares, right? Big deal, right? tough shit, right?
And here is the kicker Dave, all my reports are true and I want them off. One of the mistresses husband has been diagnosed with a brain tumor, and she is the one I believe wrote the reports against me, but he is very sick, and is dying. Humanity David. If my report, the one written about me stayed, maybe he would have peace if the one I put on there about her were gone. We do things we regret. I regret.
And one day, you will do something you regret and maybe cannot fix because of a situation like this and when you do, I hope that you remember me because I am a good person who had their life destroyed in a twenty minute confession. I have to live with that, and with this. Shame on you, Ed and me. I don't know who I dislike the most. But I know who could right this, who has the power, and who is the biggest ahole because they will not. Humanity David. Humanity.
Does anyone else find it ironic that so many have criticized Ripoff Report for allowing anyone to post anything, and yet this is exactly what SEOmoz does with this page? 292 comments so far, and not a single one has been fact-checked for accuracy….
Folks, I think it is time for something that has been sorely lacking here – some honesty and some full disclosure.
First, my disclosure – although the First Amendment protects the right to speak without disclosing your real name, anonymous comments are inherently hard to trust. Thus, although I could use a pseudonym to protect my identity like “googleRORinjail” or “Smitty”, I feel that the chances of having an open and honest dialogue are better if you know who I am. As such, allow me to introduce myself – my name is David and I am Ripoff Report’s General Counsel. Don’t believe me? Send me an email and I’ll be happy to respond directly to you: [email protected].
Next, some additional disclosure – as mentioned above, Ripoff Report has filed a lawsuit against SEOmoz and Sarah Bird in Arizona based on some of the things Sarah said in her article which we claim are false. I'm not going to litigate the case here in these comments, but you should be aware of this. Unfortunately, rather than appearing in court and defending her article by proving that everything she was said was true, on May 14, 2009 Sarah and SEOmoz filed a Motion to Dismiss. In her motion, Sarah argued that she should not be subject to personal jurisdiction in Arizona because she claims that she did not know that Ripoff Report and Ed Magedson were based in Arizona. Huh? Seriously? This argument is surprising given the fact the word “Arizona” appears 14 times in her article and many if not all of the litigation documents summarized/reviewed in Sarah’s post clearly indicate that Ripoff Report is based in Arizona. Ripoff Report has asked the court to deny Sarah’s motion so we can move forward with the case and decide who is right, but the wheels of justice are turning slowly and the court hasn’t ruled on the motion yet, so the case is essentially on hold until the question of jurisdiction is resolved.
Because of this ongoing litigation, I initially felt it was better to refrain from responding to comments on this page for obvious reasons despite my desire to correct inaccuracies and to help everyone understand our position better. However, the issues which have gotten so many people so angry aren’t going away anytime soon. Thus, I think that the time has come for ROR to break its silence and respond directly to some of the criticism on this and other sites. Some of that criticism is fair, but much is not, so allow me to add the following remarks.
First of all, let’s cut to the chase – after reading many, many comments on this site, I understand that people are furious when they contact Ripoff Report and ask us to remove something which they claim is false only to be told that the CDA protects us so we won’t remove the report. Many of you feel this is outrageous and a complete misuse of the limited “good samaritan” protections intended by Congress when they enacted the CDA. I honestly do understand your anger and your frustration. My goal here is not to talk you out of those beliefs, but rather to help you understand the reasons for our policies, to correct some of the false statements being spread by our adversaries, and to understand that the issue is not as purely black-or-white as you might first think.
Let’s begin by looking at the other side of the coin. Given that so many people disagree with our policy, what would these opponents of the CDA/Ripoff Report suggest as an alternative? Let me guess -- we should remove all material every time we receive a takedown demand? (If only the world was so simple, eh?)
Folks, I realize that from your perspective this alternative might seem like a better and easier policy. I’m sure that to you, it feels like the only fair and decent thing to do. But given the reality of the Internet, this policy simply cannot work in a country like ours which values and protects free speech. In a nutshell, if Ripoff Report (or any other site) was required to remove material upon request, do you know what would happen? There would be no Internet speech left...it’s THAT serious.
For example, as you might imagine Ed Magedson has read some of the comments on this site and for the most part, he strongly disagrees with a lot of what is said here. But just because he disagrees with the content of your speech does not mean that he feels you have no right to be heard. To paraphrase the words of a famous Supreme Court case – “The antidote for unpopular speech isn’t censorship; it’s more speech.”
Let’s imagine that the CDA is changed and that websites are required to remove content upon demand. Now, how would you feel if Ed Magedson sent a cease & desist letter to this site alleging that all 292 comments on the page were false and therefore all such content had to be removed? What if that actually happened? Would that be fair to all of you who have taken the time to express your views and opinions about the Ripoff Report? How about those of you with Blogger.com pages attacking Ripoff Report...what if we could force the removal of all those pages with a single demand letter? Would that be fair?
Of course not. “Removal upon notice” such as this is simply unworkable because it puts the website host in a position where they have to promptly delete content or assume liability for it. Given those two undesirable choices which one do you think sites would choose 100% of the time? Yup, they would immediately delete the content without ever questioning the validity of the request, and the First Amendment would suffer immeasurable damage as a result.
That may seem like a fair price to pay when looking at ONE comment about your company which you feel is false, but imagine you are FaceBook with 300 million users posting billions of comments. How could you ever expect the site to decide what to keep and what to delete? Since it would be impossible to make any distinctions, “removal upon notice” would result in a massive amount of true and valuable speech being removed from the public’s view. The CDA was enacted to prevent exactly that result from happening even if it means that sites like Ripoff Report (or SEOmoz) can permit their users to say anything they want regardless of accuracy or truth.
Now, I will concede that Ripoff Report doesn’t have billions of posts, and I understand that many people feel we have some type of obligation to at least investigate reports which are brought to our attention as being questionable in some way. That view may seem realistic from your side of the computer screen, but the truth is it’s completely impossible.
As of today, we have slightly more than 500,000 original reports and maybe 3-5 million rebuttals/updates, etc. We receive dozens if not hundreds of removal requests each week, and we’re often asked to review massive piles of confusing evidence from people claiming that they can show that a report is untrue. If the law required us to sort through all of this information the result would be obvious – if we spent even just one hour to investigate each posting (which is an unrealistically low figure), it would take hundreds of years and millions of dollars to investigate everything on the site. We simply couldn’t keep up and we would have to remove everything or shut the site down. I know that would thrill some of you folks, but keep in mind – the same would be true for SEOmoz and virtually any other site that allowed user-generated comments.
Because of this and in order to be fair to everyone, we have adopted a simple and strict no-removal policy. On a scale of 1-10, I understand this policy ranks about 1,000,000 in terms of its unpopularity with certain people, especially those who appear in reports on our site. Still, the only alternative would be for us to consider the merits of each removal request, granting some but not others, in which case we would certainly be accused of making unfair decisions on what to keep and what to remove. Because this would defeat the purpose of the site and would never be fair to everyone, we have decided to keep all reports, allow anyone to post free rebuttals explaining their side of the story, and then let our users decide what to believe and what to reject.
Is this an abuse of the law? Many have argued that it is, but let’s talk about that.
First of all, many people seem to think that the CDA is grossly unfair because it leaves victims “powerless” when they have been defamed. This is 100% false. The only thing the CDA does is prohibit plaintiffs from suing Party A (the web host) for the speech of Party B (a website user). Even under the current CDA, Party B is always 100% responsible for their actions, and if someone has been defamed by a post on Ripoff Report or any other site, the law gives them a complete remedy – they can sue the author and collect whatever damages they may have suffered.
Of course, let’s be honest - suing authors is just not as easy as going after the host, so everyone wants to blame the host. We’re the lowest hanging fruit and the assumption is that we have more money than the author. But allowing hosts to face this form of liability for material they did not create would basically mean an immediate end to valuable online speech such as buyer feedback on eBay, product reviews on Amazon, and, yes, even the comments made here on SEOmoz. Think about it.
Folks, this is not a better option, and that’s not just my opinion. So far more than two dozen state and federal judges in two dozen different cases have sided with us, and not because Ed Magedson is such a likeable guy. Rather, the judges understand that even though the CDA may have some unpleasant consequences, the alternatives are far worse. Of course, it does not help that so many people have tried to get around the law by alleging (falsely) that we create or modify reports. As I already stated above, we have server logs showing the identity of every author who has created a report on our site, so claims about Ed Magedson writing or altering reports never get far; we can always prove such claims to be false.
So, what now? Well, for starters I think we should continue to debate these issues to see if we can find some common ground. Since virtually no one on this page has attempted to defend ROR or to explain our side of the story, it’s understandable that so many people have formed mistaken impressions based on the one-sided views expressed here. Hopefully in the future I can assist in bringing more truth and honesty to the debate.
In closing, people need to understand that lying about Ed Magedson and tearing down the Ripoff Report is not going to solve their problems. Yes, you are free to disagree with the law. Yes, you are free to dislike Ed Magedson. But you should at least try to gather accurate information so you can fully understand the points you’re arguing about before reaching a conclusion on these important issues.
With that in mind, I look forward to responding to any specific questions or comments anyone may have.
~David
[email protected]
Dear David
How eloquently you have tried to defend your lord and master. I applaud you in that effort. So, if you are genuinely here to answer questions, to bring enlightenment to us, I will try to ask you some questions, with respect, and expect you to answer them legitimately, with respect, and maybe in this process, help us where ROR, and Ed, have not in the past.
Point one. What of the individuals who have placed reports and have asked to have the reports they placed removed. These are not ppl who are asking for a report placed against them removed but rather may have placed a report in a moment in time that they regret, or in error of judgement or with bad information. That author should have the right to have that report removed, not to just rebut it. Point being, when googled, that report is still there and is still defaming the person who the report was written about. Especially the personal reports. which takes me to point two.
Point two. If ROR is "for the consumer, by the consumer" get the personal issues off of the site. Adultery, mental health, things of that nature. Those types of defamation of character are where the worst slaughters can take place. And are not professional, are not consumer issues, there is NO consumption of goods, business practice being noted, customer service issue, etc. He needs to stop that part of the site. I personally placed four reports on there when I was very emotionally unstable and have begged for them to be taken off, I PUT THEM ON THERE. How would he be compromising anything to remove a personal report of my husbands infidelity? I will pay for this forever, and even as I write this, I am in tears. He has no idea what this has done to my life.
Point three. You encourage the rebuttal process but when that is used, you guarantee yourself a ride on Google forever. The rebuttals will also link you to other reports to futher humiliate you if you are not careful with your wording in the rebuttal. I have learned this first hand. I do not encourage anyone to rebut a report. I have been harmed by using the rebuttal. It does not work in the persons favor.
Point four. You compare this site to ROR. On this site, I can myself, ME, delete a post I regret, edit a post I regret, or want to change, Me, I can do that. On ROR, I am held captive to a post that I put there. It is never available to edit, only to add more crap to. When I put my first report on there, I had an error in it, and I tried like crazy to fix it. I had NO IDEA YOU COULD NOT EDIT, CHANGE OR REMOVE A REPORT. I have no idea how I found that hideous, disgusting site. I found it in the middle of more pain than I can even begin to tell you of. My judgement was so off the chart, to the point I had none. I began begging them to take those reports down immediately. I spent ten days in the hospital passing only blood, begging them. I spent two other hospital stays partly due to these reports. You have no idea what this has caused me. ANd, I have no recourse. None. I have made myself a victim of ROR. And I cannot get the reports that I, Me, I posted. THat is not right. Their reasoning when I asked? The first time they said, "how can we be sure this is really you asking" Huh? How about I am coming to you from my account with you? It was good enough to use to post the mess with, so why is that not good enough to recognize me now? THen it was, well, we do not remove reports because we do not want businesses pressuring ppl who post complaits to remove them. Again, this is MY HUSBAND and three of his mistresses. The other side of the coin was one of the women posted a heinous report about me that was a lie. My full name, my street address, city, etc. Did ROR care? no. ROR put me at risk physically. should this womans family want revenge against me, all my information was right there.
Am I angry with ROR, Ed M and the CDA for it's loopholes? yes. Were there several ppl who brought these issues up when this law was being inacted in 1996? Yes there were. This is a problem. Did Ed or any of his ppl change reports, put reports on the site themselves, etc? I have no way of knowing, I have only read the rumors alleged and the documentations that others have put online. My concerns that I put on here have been an open book and by the way, my full disclose information is on here as well.
I patiently await your responses to my issues with ROR. I just want to be free of Ed, you, ROR, all of it. It is like being stuck in quick sand that is really shit. And, you can never get out. I do not google my name in hopes that it will fall away to page two. I live in fear of my grandchildren googling my name or their grandfathers name. There is humanity to be dealt with here as well. And so that you know, regardless of how much work you feel that you would take on to deal with the reports, and the ppl you hear from regarding the pain caused by them, that is part of the game.
Oh, and you failed to discuss the advocacy program. What about that? THat is another issue for me, and the personal reports. Why, we do not even have access to that delightful thing. Take the personal reports OFF THE SITE.
You guys have no real unstanding what extortion really is...
It seems like to me that ROR is offering a service that you are free to join, or not join for a possible chance to remove complaints. ROR is not liable for others that post complaints, so why should he remove them without compensation? This sould also be for false claims or even legit complaints, of course a lot of people do not like to pay for this service and rather hold ROR liable for something they did not post, but you want to say he extorits money because now you found your self with a complaint on ROR? I do not see extortion here. ROR did not file the complaint, and they want a fee for the complaint to be removed, its just an unethical service.
This does not include if ROR made there own complaints, I do not know, I know if I had a site like this, I would do things much different.
some of you guys do not have enough marbles, and do not focus on the real issues out there. Your government commits extortion every single day. God gave us this land, and man wants to extort us by charging us for what god gave us, then extorts taxes from owing something that should be free to begin with.
our gargage companty extorts us, if we refuse to pay a recycle fee, then we are double charged for our garbage fees, can you sey extortion? we should be free to decide if we want to recycle or not, instead we are forced to pay for it, weather we want it or not.
Your govt just extorted 800 billion $$$ from you to pay for failed insurance compainies because of the stock crash.
https://www.LetsRipOffConsumers.com
Help us help consumers.
Great...I just typed a long (and friendly) PM to Smitty, and when I hit "Send" I got this: "This user is currently not accepting private messages". Don't believe me? Try it yourself.
Why would someone block personal messages?
I can't win with you guys.
~David
[email protected]
I do not have my pm's blocked. I have never dealt with that at all. If it is blocked it is a feature of this system where it had to be unblocked to be used or you have to be a paying member to use it. I will gladly go and see if I can unblock it and you send that pm right along. I am curious as a cat to see what you have to say.
Smitty,
I promise you -- I tried the PM option and it said exactly what I put in quotes to you. I have never sent a PM to anyone else on here, so maybe I did something wrong.
Anyway, I decided to pull your real email address from something you posted on ROR and contact you that way. Please check your AOL email and my note should be there. Again, I already know your real name and I am not going to disclose it here, so you're really not risking anything if you choose to respond to me via email.
Of course, like ok120 said, I am a fraud and am not really ROR's lawyer, so it would be impossible for me to know your real email address, right?
~David
[email protected]
When you join, you have to check a block to ACCEPT PMs and I had never checked that box. I had not blocked them, I had never chosen to receive them. I did not realize that block needed to be checked, so it is open now Dave, if you want to send your response to me by PM.
OH, and for the record, I brought my concern regarding my street address, city, state and full name being on my report immediately to ROR and they did nothing. More than one time. Just so you know. THey did not have to go through 500,000 reports to do this, I told them. They did not care one fig. My life has been in crisis for over 20 months. Yes, if you go and you read the report that this mistress of my husband put on ROR about me, not only does it read like an idiot wrote it, and lose validity, but the rebuttals support that she is an idiot, and the fact that one of his mistresses stands up for me in the rebuttals cinches it. So blah blah blah. The problem lies in the fact that when you google my name, the header says I am insane, and several other nasty horrible things. That is there for my grandchildren to see. And, as was mentioned, it causes me to become physically sick. I have spent my life as a part of my community that would never be part of this mess. I am sick. THis should never have happened. I cannot type this without crying. There is only so much one person can carry, and trust me I carry it all. WHy, in God's name, would I come to ROR and say, hey I wrote all that trash, all that trashy, nasty stuff about those three women, who I hate, and my husband, that that one about me, one of them was pissed off and did that to me. While what I wrote is true, I should never have put my life in the street and I have had to do it again and again to fight here. But I am ok to do it here, I have support with others who are victims as well. Never mind that I victimized myself. How would you feel if you knew that you did this to yourself. How would you feel if you looked into the mirror, and had all this shit in your life, all this unbelievable pain, gut wrenching pain, these double betrayals that went on for 26 years, and you had to deal with what you added to it, this humiliation? You knew that there were other friends out there who knew what was going on while this was going on? My hell is so wide, and so deep and so horrible, and some days so dark that I cannot get out of bed, and this thing, this one thing, I DID. ME. I did not do the other, so tell me where I turn. I am not rich, I cannot hire a fancy lawyer and go after an elusive man who seems to never wash his hair and does not care if I live or die. Because I do not matter. I am just another Google hit to you. That is all, but hear me loud and clear, I am a human being who one night in the middle of complete maddening anguish, with a broken life and heart found a god damned site and did not even have the presence of mind to read fine print, thought, here you bitches who ruiined my world, who sat with me in the hospital when they cut my breasts off and then screwed my husband, bought his cell phones so I would not know he was screwing you, went on vacations with him while I sat at home recovering from ten day hospital stay with ischemic colitis, told me you loved me, called me all the time to chat me up, to keep me off balance,. for 13 years, here, let the world know, I am dying inside....DAVE YOU TAKE A DAMN WALK IN MY SHOES THAT BLEAK DAY, WITH ALL THAT PAIN. I loved the women too. I have never cheated, and would have fought for them if someone hurt them. YOu do not know who I am, what I am. I raised beautiful children, I am a good person. but, I am sick. I am sorry, I am just destroyed, here...It is so hard to go over this again....I cannot type anymore. You just forget that there is a person here, I am not a message board graphitti thing. I am a woman, a human being who has suffered more than you will ever comphrehend. aNd, all the hell I ever wanted was to remove something that I, ME made the mistake to do in a moment of hell. That was all. that was all
Smitty,
Check your AOL email; my message was already sent there. If you deleted that address (it was [email protected]), let me know and I will resend it via PM.
~David
[email protected]
Hhhmmmmmmmm Smitty I do think you personally have them running scared. Protect yourself! :-)
I support Ripoff Report, and have used it to discover important facts about bastards who scammed me, and to share my experiences with other victims. It enables me to research a subject and discover other forums. It helps to drive the swindlers out of business. So I think the ROR is doing a worthwhile job.
Let's get back to basics. Why do people publish in the first place on the Ripoff report? For the fun of it? Give me a break!
We read it because we are aggrieved consumers or people, who, just possibly, have, been ripped off. (How’s that for stating the obvious?)
The basic problem is the fecklessness and ineffectuality of the Federal Trade Commission, assuming the offenders are in the US jurisdiction. Most e-commerce still originates in the USA.
That is why sites like the Ripoff Report are important to consumers. I detect little interest in consumer rights from its critics, though.
You see, I found that consumer protection in the US is inconsistent between States and is really very weak. Otherwise, publicity this side of a court room would be unimportant. See the logic? (BTW, it is usually impractical for a scam victim outside US borders to take litigation against a US scammer. It is even complicated for a victim living in NY to litigate against a Californian swindler.) There needs to be a convenient, accessible system for settlement of consumer complaints in the USA below a certain damage ceiling. When government shows it can do better, then you can point to a substitute for the ROR. Any free attorneys out there?
It would appear that the ROR is too successful for some people's liking. Wonder why.
Those critics are not explaining how they could do it better. If you think you can compete with the ROR, do it yourself! Give it a try. If a newspaper publishes a complaint, it stays in print, regardless of any further dialog about the subject. At the ROR, the site owners have no more responsibility for the accuracy of any published statements than a newspaper editor. It could scarcely be otherwise. As long as free speech is equally free for all, that is fine.
Same with a website like this, unless the website owner can be 'influenced'. So the important point here is that the website owner remains loyal to his own pledges. I see no evidence that has not been so. Have you?
As for the complaints about defamation, the opportunity to publish a rebuttal on the site exists. (Or even just a comment, if you know better. ) The right of rebuttal is very important, and I see no evidence that the site owners are either hindering it or prevaricating about it. Do you?
Any entities named have the right to challenge in the site itself the accuracy of any reports.
It remains important that the site owners stick to their guns in refusing to delete an article without the consent of all concerned. The only other basis for removing a posting would be a court order. As the owners correctly point out, once they start removing postings in return for money, the site's credibility and usefulness collapses. I agree. It would be as bad as a judge accepting money not to put an offender on trial. The only possible exception might be that the author was under-age and thus of diminished responsibility, but that needs proof, not just a request.
(BTW, would SEOmoz take down any site posting in return for money? Say no more.)
As for these ROR critics, let me ask : What brought you to the ROR in the first place? If you are a business mentioned in a plaintiff's report, then that explains all. You already had your right of detailed rebuttal, if you wanted it. You could do it again, too, if you liked.
And why would you be worried about ROR's position in the Search Engines? Would you respect the ROR more if its ranking were low? Pull the other one. Unless you are operating a competitive site, why does ROR SE position matter to you so much? Most likely, you are a business entity named in the ROR who fears the publicity.
(Oh, I see, you are merely a concerned citizen with a passion to talk about defamation? LOL !!!!)
There are too many racketeers out there getting away with crime. That is a million times more important than the defects in the ROR, real or imagined. If the Federal Trade Commission or ICPEN published reports, they would be doing a similar job. Then the ROR might become unnecessary. But fact is, government is not really that interested in consumer complaints.
You always have the right to compete. If the critics of ROR have a better way of defeating scammers, let's see it.
If you can do it better, just do it!
ROR is doing a great job, and if it gets taken down, many others will gladly rush to take its place. They must. Someone must stand up to crime. Someone must stand up for the little guy, when politicians prove too weak and venal to do it.
I applaud the ROR.
Well, well, I just want to say, Hey Dave. But, I won't.
Tell me this, Mr. ROR Lover, hows about you google your name one day and it says that you have sex with dogs? Or that you were seen taking young boys into hotel rooms? or that your are a crook and steal money? Or that you run around on your wife? or that you have AIDs? Would that be ok with you? What if ALL of those things were posted about you? Be ok? Hey, that could happen. And you could not do one GD thing about it. And most of it has nothing to do with consumer complaints. It is just defamation. Hey, they may all be posted by a different persona. Great. But, wait a minute, there is a strange familiar way of writing, bad spelling, the same style, just, well, you know it is the same person. You pissed someone off...oh, yeah, you know who. All ROR has to do is look at the IP addy, right? Cause all the poster has to do is have a different email address for their account name with ROR. They can create as many personas as they please.
What? They will not look at the IP Addys? What, Ed does not care. He squares his chin and stomps his foot like a petulant child and says no is no. But, your children see this and your co workers and you were not considered for a job...and your clients from your current company are dropping you like a hot potato..
Oh, ok, let's put some rebuttals on there. Get your friends and family to do it. Whew. That made you feel better...wha, whoa..what? It puts you on top of the Google list? huh? effs everything up once you have rebuttals? No one told me that. OMG....
Hey, my friend just lost her home, they foreclosed on it, she filed bankruptcy, closed her business. Yep. ROR. 500 reports. All placed on ROR by one person and her friends. All false. My friend had a court order, the posting individual is mentally ill, all other sites barred this persons activity and removed any posts, except ROR. My friend lost everything.
You are ignorant. Being ignorant means unlearned. I have nothing else to say. The above says it all. The end.
Oh, and there is a better way. First of all, remove all personal postings. If ths is a consumer site, make it such. Personal posts have nothing to do with consumer issues. They take away validity of what Ed says he is doing.
Secondly, I have been told by David G. that they are in the process of making a arbitration process. That is a step in the right direction. With this process they should identify that the ppl making multiple posts from the same ip addys are indeed doing so only for defamation purposes, are false and they should be banned from the site and the posts taken down. No if, ands or buts. That shows integrity on RORs part. If I create ten persona's to run a competitor out of business, ROR should be able to tell that. In the investigations that I have done myself I could pick up a style of writing, a syntac that the false reports used. They should have an investigative person just for that purpose. They need to be more responsive to the ppl who have justified complaints.
I could support the site completely if they ran it with ethics of some sort. Any sort. There are none. They pick and choose. You may feel that you have used them to your advantage, you just have no idea what is going on in the underbelly of ROR. You have no idea of the ruined lives. You do not know about the young lady in CA who runs a riding stable and trains riders, who had a friend who did not like her, a teenager thing. So the friend decided she was going to do a teenager thing and posted countless reports about the stables that were untrue. She confessed to this when a detective finally ran it down. Now, what does this young woman do? People no long sign up for the school. People left. None of the reports were true.
So, you are so big on how it works the correct way, you tell me an answer to the ruined lives because, unfortunately, I have a whole box full of them. The cleaning company in upper CA that a woman got mad at and posted over and over about, created multiple personas and got her friends to do them as well, and I met this man who has a family with children and he came to a hearing against ROR and he was losing his livlihood, and did nothing wrong.
I can make your head ring with stories, all true. One bad thing, one life ruined undoes any good you can bring. One family losing their home just because of obstinance and a hard heart, an unwillingness to listen, or consider or redo a credo, is unforgivable. I hope that it is never you, but if it is, you will understand. It is a frustration like nothing you can ever understand. A deep abiding pain. You cannot just turn off the computer and walk away, as Davd Gingras suggested to me, by the way, I like David. Because it is there. It is seen and other ppl are hurt by it. It hurts ppl. And for what? A hard obstinate heart is all that I know.
ANd I will say this, if that site were run properly, if there were arbitrations in place or considerations that did not cost anyone a cent, and the personal things gone, and Ed were to clean up his act and run the site the way he professes to, he would be a millionaire many times over. Right now, his lawyers make all the money.
And one more thing, God I have to not answer this shit, but YOU have no idea about the rebuttal system. First off, it hurts you, it does not help. It makes your number higher in the Google count AND if you word if incorrectly, it will tie you to other reports so that when those reports are Googled, your report wiill come up as well, thereby exposing you even more. Also, while you say you see no problem with the posting of the rebuttals. You are just not in the know. Before we, the uneducated, knew better and tried to post rebuttals, there are countless numbers of us who could not get our rebuttals posted. the site is NOT run by the letter of the CDA. They do not post what you put on there, they pick and choose. And, alter. Trust me on this.
Everything I have said is 100 percent true and I will not debate it or respond. If anyone else wants to do so. have at it. I have had my say. I have lived this shit for three years plus. My friend who lost everything, who is one of the most decent ppl I have ever met, did this for five. She spent 180k fighting, and she has lost it all. But, not her life. And that little bitch who did all this to her will just have to find someone else to torture now, because before her, there was someone else. She was not the first, just the longest. How damn sad. And again, every single site worked with her but ROR. Once the person realized ROR was not going to work with my friend it was on. 500 reports in two years.
While I totally understand you want a venue to find out about unethical scammy type companies, you have to understand there are many companies on ROR that are being blasted by people who are NOT customers & who are trying to bring them down.
In response to your rebuttal comment, it's human nature that once someone sees a company being listed on a scam site, they tend NOT to scroll down & read the rebuttal.
Only a small percentage do that, the rest just assume everything they read is true.
As for court, if a company is really small, they probably don't have the money to fight ROR in court. This is why many professional ethical companies have closed down because they lose so many sales b/c of these fake reports.
I understand you aren't a business owner, but like Smitty said, what would happen if lies were posted about you online & then you couldn't get a job? How would that make you feel?
This one point outs you as willfully ignorant or just plain deceitful. You haven't read any of the previous posts and/or are in ROR's employ.
"As the owners correctly point out, once they start removing postings in return for money, the site's credibility and usefulness collapses. I agree"
ROR does remove posts in return for money. Both David (here in the posts themselves) an attorney w/ROR and Ed in court filings have admitted to it. Use the 'find' function at the top of your screen to find 'CAP' or Google CAP ROR
Thanks for playing.
I've been very pleased with the info obtained on Ripoff Report. In fact just yesterday I was looking up a leasing co. that had fraudulently drafted money from our biz acc. You see I wanted to know if it was an honest mistake on their part or a revenue stream. I found out thru consumer posts on ROR that they've been doing this all over the country.
My company has been in business for over 30yrs, we have a stellar reputation online & off. It's been my experiance that reputations good or bad are earned.
Oh my Queso, just keep your fingers and ankles crossed. Here is the irony. You may just one day piss someone off and find your fine company on the ROR. WHAT? No way. You have such a great earned reputation. Never.
Right.
Ask my friend from Wichita who had a talent agency or the horse trainer friend of mine from CA or the man who owns a cleaning business upstate CA, or the lawyer in CA, or on and on who ALL had great reputations and were business' of integrity. Oh, and guess what? One of those ppl had to spend 180k to prove who a cyber stalker was that was posting hundreds of defamatory reports about their company on all available sites, i.e. ROR, Craigs List, Complaints Board, etc. This person had a national company with huge names as their clients. They finally were able to prove who the person was. They were tapping into other ppl's wireless. A judge ordered all activity be ceased and all the things you can imagine. He ordered a financial judgement. Which the plaintive denied as it would have to come from the stalkers mother and would ruin her. This is the heart of my friend.
All of the companies removed reports and refused new ones except guess who? ROR. There is an order from the courts, an FBI investigation, etc. And my friend never committed one of the things that were said in one of the reports.
Let me ask you this. Does it sound credible to you for over 500 reports to be put on one site about a small company in a year? Does it not seem responsible to check ip addys to see what is goin on if there is any concern of defamation? Especially with court orders?
And, one by one, companies that had done buiness with this person called dropping accounts. After two years, this person lost their home, closed the business and filed bankruptcy. I feel certain calls were made to his clients, as the stalker had worked for him briefly, and a competitor was involved as well.
And one other of them had a 17 year old come forward and admit it was them that put all the reports on ROR out of jealousy and revenge and they were sorry, they were lies, and ROR said, tough shit. That person is young and marked on Google forever.
Another of them had a prior friend fall out with them, and post twenty reports against their company about employees not being paid, as if they were the employee, posted as the customer and that they received unsatisfactory work, that they were double billed, cheated, and what of that? Was destroying the small business created to feed their family. And all for revenge from a person who never did any business with them, worked for them, etc.
Your great love for this site is misplaced. There is no oversite or concern for these ppl and the next one may be you.
So, watch out what you say. You are no better than the next person and can be one report away from five hundred reports and losing everything. ROR does not care. About anything. About you, what is right, wrong, true, a lie, who kills themselves over a report, who lives, dies, etc. They do not care if you are peronally put on there as a pedophile, as a thief, etc. They do not care. Pay them some money, that is all that they are about. I would hate to be any one of them at judgement day.
Steve...seriously? You seriously think Magedson hates you personally so much and has so much free time on his hands that he creates new profiles for every post at complaintsboard.com and loads content from his site onto it? Just to get you back? Seriously?
It couldn't be that the person who wrote the Report copied it him/herself and posted it at every possible place he/she could find?
You think that his website has singlehandedly ruined your business? You think your policies, or perhaps some misleading content on your website, or perhaps an employee you fired badly had nothing to do with your business failing?
The conspiracy theories here are amusing. What's next...the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
You may hate that the Ripoff Report exists, but if not them there, some other website will take up their space. There will forever be a way for consumers to get their complaints out there in the big wide world of cyberspace, and your best bet is to be proactive, then deal with the issue in the currently approved method--rebuttals or joining his CAP program to get an editor's note. No, the comment will never come down, but neither will how you dealt with it, so you probably should just bite your tongue and play nice in the sandbox.
Hello friends,
Long time, no smear.
While I don't want to offend ok120 by continuing to post here after saying I wouldn't, it seems to me that you guys need to know something -- all of this talk of bringing a class action lawsuit against Ripoff Report is somewhat belated. Why?
Because someone has already filed such a case against a site called Yelp.com which accuses it of.....wait for it....extortion! Based on what? Well, according to the lawsuit, Yelp (which allows people to post reviews of businesses) will move positive comments higher or negative comments lower in exchange for money. If you're curious, there are lots of interesting articles about the lawsuit including this short one: https://techcrunch.com/2010/02/24/yelp-class-action-lawsuit/
Why am I mentioning this? Well, Yelp has filed a motion asking the court to dismiss the case because it claims that asking for money in exchange for moving reports up/down does not qualify as extortion. The motion is set for hearing on May 3, 2010, and I expect the court will rule on this pretty quickly.
To be clear -- Ripoff Report doesn't take money to move reports around, so the outcome of the Yelp case doesn't directly affect us. Nevertheless, I think it's going to be helpful and perhaps educational for everyone involved.
As soon as the court makes a decision, I will let you guys know.
P.S. For you non-lawyers out there, when a court denies a motion to dismiss, it does not mean the plaintiff has proven their case or that the defendant is going to lose the case. It just means that the plaintiff has made allegations which, if later proven true, are enough to state a claim. This is important because if the court denies Yelp's motion to dismiss, it doesn't mean that Yelp has lost the case....it just means the plaintiff will get the opportunity to try and prove the facts that they claim are true which the plaintiff may not be able to do.
~David Gingras
General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC
[email protected]
The lying scumbag returns.
Yelp = Ripoff Report?? Hahaha. Tell us another.
How's the extortion business treating you?
Why don't you go ahead and address the 10+ concerns in this thread with some more of your bullshit so we can all tear you apart again and you can run away and hide.
DEFINITELY a class action lawsuit should come against ROR. Thanks for the heads up on the attorney.
We definitely will be contacting the same lawyers on the Yelp case.
You're really doing a great job for your employer. Keep it up.
Glad to see those anger management classes have been time well spent for ya!
Well, I think you're discovering how angry people are with your scam of a company. Pretty busy over there in 2010 huh for ROR's "legal" team?
How many lawsuits so far in 2010? 5? 10?
Eventually, you're going to get caught - only a matter of time.
Momentum is building against your extortion scheme.
You cannot address the valid points in this discussion because you are full of lies.
You think all the anger is unfounded? Well, its only going to get worse from here. You are SCREWING PEOPLE OVER. You have been BANNED by MSN and Yahoo and eventually Google (who was named with you in a lawsuit in NY apparently) will get sick of your shit, and you'll be gone from Google, too.
Expect some more lawsuits. And when you're out of Google, the game is over.
I encourage anyone reading to also consider naming Google, if you think they have a hand in this and there is a legal basis. You might as well, because some seem to have valid claims. Google will get sick of ROR, just like MSN/Yahoo and ban ROR.
ROR will go under due to legal fees. This can't be a profitable venture - the scam business will never win in the long term. Either that, or they'll be forced to change.
Eventually you'll be fired, "nameless" attorney, and then what kind of scam are you going to perpetuate?
Think long term. What's the plan?
ok120,
I understand that you are a very misguided and very disturbed individual so I really try to cut you some slack, but something just occurred to me -- if you are such a victim, why not come out of hiding and show us your evidence? Is it because you have none? What sort of real victim hides in the shadows, hides their name, but hurls accusations and asks others to put their wallets and reputations on the line?
This is what a liar does, not a victim.
If you have been extorted by Ripoff Report, I challenge you to put up or shut up. Surely, for all the garbage you have posted claiming to be a victim, you should be proud to post your REAL NAME (like I have done), along with the REAL FACTS explaining how you have been extorted. Show us the emails. Post the documents. The truth will set you free!
As you know, because I work for Ripoff Report, I can access all of our records, IP logs, etc., so all we need are some basic details of your story and I can see if you're telling the truth. Tell us WHO YOU ARE and when/what/how you were extorted. Because I would never support anyone breaking the law, if you have actually been victimized by Ripoff Report and if you post sufficient evidence to prove what you're saying, then you have my word -- I will quit my job. Yes, you heard me right.
Are you up for that challenge, ok120? I don't want to sound like a bully, but here's the deal -- I am calling you out. Show us the proof. Since May 3rd is an important date, I will give you until then to post ALL of your evidence here on this site (including your real name so I can verify what you claim). When May 3rd comes and goes without a squeak from you, I think that's all the proof we need.
~David Gingras
General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC
[email protected]
Well, lets see "David" - earlier in this very thread you refused to give your last name until someone "outed" you - AND YOU ARE AN ATTORNEY.
So, why don't you answer your own question?
What reasonable "attorney" resorts to personally attacking NAMELESS COMMENTERS on a SEOMoz blog?
That's hilarious.
Who is REALLY disturbed?
I would guess it is you with all of these new 2010 lawsuits, right? You and your "legal team" at ROR.
So, when May 3rd comes and goes - no matter what the result - you think all of your lawsuits are going to disappear? Hahaha. You must kidding.
You're a complete fucking moron.
No, someone has already called you out. And not just someone, but a hell of a lot of people, obviously - because people and companies are suing the shit out of ROR.
So, its really not about me, its about you and the scam you are perpetuating.
And the proof is in this thread you jack ass. The same thread you claimed you would "not post in again". You said that, BTW, after you could no longer take the TRUTH being discussed.
So why don't you go ahead and discuss the PROOF that exists in this thread? Its all right here. The videos, the points, everything - easy to see.
You're going to be the only one left who is "misguided" and everyone suing the shit out of you I suppose is on "the right track", because momentum is picking up and building.
May 3rd will have NO impact because ROR is not equal to Yelp, for a variety of reasons presented VERY CLEARLY in this thread - which you choose to ignore and hide from.
You will lose. One way or another, you're involved in a scam, and you WILL lose.
And, BTW, again.. you're a complete idiot. You're a lawyer? Wow.
So you're admitting you have no proof to support your claims? Why else would you pass up an opportunity to make me look like a fool? Oh, because you were lying all along....I see.
That's ok, ok120, I think everyone already knew that. I sure did.
P.S. I think you and Orly Taitz would make an awesome team...you're like twins.
~David Gingras
General Counsel, Xcentric Ventures, LLC
[email protected]
Who's Orly Taitz? One of the many people who are also pissed off and infuriated with your scam of a "business"?
Maybe that is a person who, like many businesses who are SUING you, have legal basis and PROOF that you are, indeed, a corrupt business.
Apparently you can't read, so let me post this again:
And the proof is in this thread you jack ass. The same thread you claimed you would "not post in again". You said that, BTW, after you could no longer take the TRUTH being discussed.
So why don't you go ahead and discuss the PROOF that exists in this thread? Its all right here. The videos, the points, everything - easy to see.
BTW:
https://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-04-22/news/yelp-has-buckled-to-pressure-but-it-ain-t-enough/
"They're the modern-day Mafia. Maybe they're not holding a gun to my head, but they're playing the same game," says Taylor, who is also a plaintiff in the lawsuit. "It's too late for policy changes to help out. I just hope all this negative publicity finally tarnishes the company."
---> Sounds kind of like ROR, doesn't it?
I encourage all to contact the attorneys fighting Yelp and also fight ROR - who appear to be:
https://beckandlee.com/ (Miami, FL)
https://www.thewestonfirm.com/ (San Diego, CA)
Thanks, David, for again stirring up the hornets nest and doing your job to take down your own POS "company".