Working to ingrain SEO best practices in a company can take several months, and can involve a lengthy period of diminishing returns that we sometimes call the "SEO slog." To make things worse, our clients and colleagues often expect a consistent improvement. The difference between those expectations and the reality is what Rand tackles in today's Whiteboard Friday, offering you four ways to minimize what he calls the "delta of dissatisfaction." Credit to Scott Clark at BuzzMaven for the concept (see his original post here).
For reference, here's a still of this week's whiteboard!
I also made a graphic version of the SEO Slog below (feel free to re-use):
Video transcription
Howdy, Moz fans, and welcome to another edition of Whiteboard Friday. Today I'm going to talk a little bit about the SEO slog. This is that really tough experience that many, many SEOs go through where, essentially, you're putting a lot of effort into improving your rankings, improving your content, improving your keyword targeting, earning those links and mentions and social signals, user and usage data things, all the things that are going to help you perform on search engines, but you're not seeing results. Virtually everyone who's in the field has experienced this over the course of their career.
It happens because, a lot of the time, Google has got many, many triggers in their ranking systems to kind of check whether effort is worthy enough, or signals are organic and ongoing enough, to earn the site continued rankings, or whether there should be some sort of consideration and then evaluation and delay between when the effort is put in and things are improved and when results actually happen.
This is insidiously frustrating for lots of folks in the field. By the way, Google isn't the only one responsible. Many times what happens is that SEOs make recommendations for organizations or inside their own organizations. They work with their marketing and their engineering teams to try and get things done, and it just takes a long time. It takes a long time to see the results of those.
So I actually really appreciated Scott Clark from BuzzMaven in Lexington. You can follow him on Twitter on @scottclark. Scott described this very eloquently. I like the graphic that he put together about the SEO slog. His blog post, by the way, was called "Thriving In the SEO Slog," and he talked to a number of industry leaders, particularly those from consulting firms, about this process. He had a chart very similar to the one that I'm going to show you here.
Essentially, we have on the side here, effort. So a little bit of effort down on the bottom. Lots of effort and then a ton of effort right up on the top. Then, sort of month one through six, as you're starting those SEO efforts and campaigns. This can happen on an entire website level, but this can also happen on a particular subsection of a website, or a new group of keywords, or a new set of content that you're targeting.
What frequently happens is you see what's needed to see return on investment, to see those improvements over time, versus what the expectations are, which I've got in purple versus orange, kind of diverge. So at the start, what's needed, a lot of the time at the very start of an SEO campaign, especially if previous best practices haven't been employed, it's actually really minimal to start seeing a positive return on investment. But, over time, that effort ramps up a ton. You've got to do an incredible amount just to see a continued return on investment over those first few months, and there's a delay between the effort that you put in here and when you're seeing results towards the latter few months of a campaign.
Unfortunately, expectations are the opposite. A lot of clients, managers, teams, the people in your startup with you, the other folks that are in your consulting group, your client, all of these folks are expecting to see that effort is a little bit higher at the start, and then you kind of get the ball rolling and it goes down. That actually is true. The problem is it takes a long time to get that ball rolling. So what I usually see, what most of us in the industry see is that that effort ramps up tremendously in those first few months, and then over time it does go down a little bit. Maintaining those ongoing best practices is a little bit easier.
But this, right here, the difference between expectations and reality, that's what I call the delta of dissatisfaction. People just get really frustrated around this.
There are a few good mitigation strategies, and some of these were mentioned, actually, by the experts that Scott Clark talked to in his post. The first one, the one that nearly every consultant mentioned, and I think is very smart, is to create the right expectations.
If you go into a client meeting, or you sit down with your marketing team, or you're talking to your CEO about what you can and can't accomplish, if you create the expectation that SEO is going to be this not necessarily silver bullet, but that you will make these investments and because things are done so badly today and the company you used to work for or the other websites that you've worked on had such success when you implemented these best practices, that you feel confident you can increase their rankings and their traffic and the acquisition of customers dramatically.
The problem gets created right then and there, because in the SEO world, for the last decade, for some reason people have held these two beliefs about SEO. Number one, that it's a one-time activity, which is just dead wrong as all of you who are watching know. Number two is that once you optimize for the search engines, you are now optimal, and that means you don't require additional ongoing effort, and the search engines will reward your efforts once they see them. Since Google's crawling us so fast, well, we must get that benefit immediately.
Neither of these are the case. So creating the right expectations up front can work wonders. In fact, if you want to go ahead and make this chart and put it right in your presentations, as you're showing the team, here's what needs to be fixed. Here's what we need to do. Here's what I think we can accomplish. But, by the way, you're going to think this can happen a lot faster than it can happen. If you tell them that up front, you're creating those right expectations.
Number two, when things are going well, that's a dangerous time, a very dangerous time. I urge folks not to just sort of celebrate and then create new projections, like, "Hey, well, we accomplished X. Y is certainly going to happen, and Y is going to be 2X, and 3X and 4X in six months and seven months and eight months." Always create both a contingency plan, in case that traffic increase is temporary, and a conservative budget.
So I actually really like making budgets around traffic, around performance here at Moz, and in general that contain a best-case scenario and also a "and here's what we'll spend before we know whether this is the truth." If you don't, you can end up very, very sad.
Number three, make sure SEO isn't your only inbound traffic channel, and it's not the only inbound marketing effort that you're working on. If you're doing social media marketing and content marketing, you're building an email list, and you're doing branding and PR and outreach and connecting with your industry, you're speaking at events, you're doing paid forms of advertising as well, great. Now you've got some mitigation. Now you aren't solely relying on SEO to provide all of the returns, and, thus, you can handle being off budget. If Google is 70% of your traffic and you miss by 10%, that's huge. If Google is 20% of your traffic and you miss by 10%, oh, it's not so bad. It's only 2% off budget.
Number four, the last thing I'll recommend here is that you measure and report leading indicators. By leading indicators, I mean not just the pages that are receiving traffic, but also things like link signals, rankings for long-tail stuff, looking at social shares, these leading indicators, these things that tend to, over time, correlate as rankings catch up to how your performance is going. By reporting on that kind of stuff, higher engagement on pages, those leading indicators will give you a sense of how things might be going two, three, four, five, six months from now with your search traffic and your rankings. That can be extremely helpful.
All right, everyone. Hope you've enjoyed this edition of Whiteboard Friday,and we'll see you again next week. Take care.
Sadly there are still an awful lot of agencies out there who promise the world then fail to deliver, which makes life hard for the rest of us. I'm talking about agencies big and small, especially if they have over zealous sales staff.
As an in-house guy I see this time and time again, agencies which don't understand what a business is about and don't understand how much resource they can actually commit.
How can I upvote this more than once??
Beware the snake oil salesman.
I really love that I started SEO as an in-house guy. You have to have business knowledge and the stuff SEO can show can be implemented in other areas of the business. To be honest I am trying to make a schedule to go in and work for a period of time at companies just to make sure I'm seeing the full picture.
I actually have the same thought, but opposite. I'm happy that I started in an agency setting where I could learn an abundance from my peers & client projects... both what works and what doesn't work. I'm still in an agency setting, but much different than my first experience where the 'one time' SEO mindset was what sold & lost almost every client. My current agency handles every client & project as a long-term relationship (3-5 years min). It's a great solution for both parties. If I were a business owner, I'd take a whole team truly invested in my company's success over having one or two in-house people responsible for what might be driving the majority of inbound traffic (though I've seen many do this very successfully & actually think this is the best set up if you have the right people) or worse, a 6 month to a year contract with a turn-and-burn agency. Interesting how both starting points have value!
Agencies 'generally' don't care about quality SEO, every-time they just try to manipulate Google guidelines to achieve result for a little bit time, and its result is long term penalty.
Aren't you putting everything in the same basket? I think manichaeism is not the correct way of judging SEO agencies, or anything in life :)
No, I am not putting all things in one basket.This is just my view Gianluca. Not some are bad, not all are good!
I think its a matter of choosing the right SEO agency to work with. Don't generalize SEO agencies since a lot out there do care much about the quality results that they provide for the clients.
I think a lot of the problem comes down to the fact that clients (and bosses for in-house digital marketers) often do not understand what "SEO" is. A lot of them (still!) think that it is a bag of tricks to get to number one in Google and then receive a flood of traffic, leads, and sales.
Such people do not understand that SEO is not a verb. We do not "SEO" anything. Clients and companies should not get an "SEO person." Rather, "SEO" is two related things:
1. A collection of existing best practices such as technical optimization, conversion optimization, content creation, and a lot more
2. The result that happens naturally when you do all of those things right over the long term
I think the more that digital marketers can communicate this to potential clients and bosses, the more that we can manage expectations and avoid this "slog." Good luck to us all! It's easier said than done.
Thanks for this post Rand. I am deep, deep, deep in the slog. I scanned the comments hoping there would be some other in-house SEOs chiming in, but I didn't see any (yet). My perspective is a little different in that, my client is the company I work for as an in-house SEO. They have clearly placed a priority on SEO, and I've been here for almost three years now, so they understand that SEO is a long-term commitment. A lot of the focus of your post centers around 4-6 month outlook for SEO. Can you (or perhaps someone reading this with in-house experience) comment on the slog when it goes on for not months, but years?
Since I came on board we have fixed many things, but many things (particularly some long on-going technical issues) still need to be fixed and have either taken a back seat to other things due to budget or lack of understanding on the magnitude of the problem. Much of my job is educational, trying to communicate to stakeholders why on earth they should care that pages that should have a 404 status code are producing 200 status codes. Now that's a downright slog.:-)
The frustration for me is that we've fixed a meta refresh issue we had with the homepage and also the fact that the non-www version of our domain didn't properly 301-redirect to the main domain. We fixed and issue we had with our canonical tags (they were relative instead of absolute - Thanks Dr. Pete!). We fixed and issue with Googlebot crawling and indexing parts of our site that shouldn't be crawled or indexed. I've fixed redirect chains, issues with too many redirect, optimized titles, meta descriptions and worked at resolving keyword cannibalization issues and, on top of that, produced some pretty amazing original content.
The results? Regardless of how much data I pull showing that organic traffic is up 13% over last year, 38% over the year before that and a whopping 85% over 2011, with year-over-year increase in revenue from organic traffic up 35%...all I seem to hear is that nothing we've done has produced any positive results. For me the "Slog" seems related to by need for an internal PR campaign for SEO and the reality of how much has improved. I can point to all these numbers and still have the same person coming into my office asking me why we no longer rank for "xyz term."
Do you have any suggestions for surviving the "slog" when you have solid data showing that things are improving, but no one seems to be hearing it?
First of all, congratulations on your SEO success. That doesn't sound like a slog - that's a bona fide victory!
We've all been there. I've given hour long presentations to clients explaining how SEO was driving millions in sales, but when asked, the marketing executives had no idea where the sudden boom in business was coming from. Sigh...
In truth, everyone at the company is working to drive sales, and everyone wants their own efforts recognized as well. The reality is as much as we do as SEOs to drive qualified traffic, we couldn't do any of it without all the other people in the company contributing.
SEO for a company is like being a car navigation system. We don't actually drive the car, but we can help with the steering.
On to the problem....
Working in-house, with the help of several smart marketing managers, I've found that regular reporting and complete transparency help a ton.
That means a few things:
The point is not to brag, but represent what you've done and provide useful information to others in the company to make informed decisions.
Sounds like you might be doing some of these already. That part is the slog. Keep at it - even if no one responds to your emails. Make the data available, and keep the faith. Best of luck!
Cyrus, thank you so much. Yes, I'm totally in complete agreement. As I sat contemplating last night, I thought "Pretty pictures are worth a thousand words..." especially to busy executives.
I totally believe that part of the problem is my struggle with effectively communicating the value of our SEO without coming across as me trying to wave a flag and get a lot of attention to myself. I highly value the members of the team here and one thing I will say is that there is a lot of camaraderie, so this really does help.
I think the "slog" for me is finding effective ways to communicate at high levels, to stakeholders who don't know and don't care (and shouldn't have to) about all the little technical SEO things, what is in it for them.
You are so right, frequent communication, efficient reports and the ability to self-serve is really valuable. I have found that when I post data for people to use at their convenience they usually never look at it. Short, very to the point and accurate charts via email seem to pack the most punch, and I need to do more of that.
Inspired by Rand's post, your comment and the comment below, I started pulling data and creating beautiful charts (hat tip to Annie Cushing for teaching me how to do this). Voila! I produced a beautiful chart that illustrated what's happened to our organic traffic in the last 3 years. It's up a whopping 84%!!! Happy dance.
What's even better is that I can actually calculate the ROI on that base on how much we would have had to pay in Adwords to get that same increase via paid search. Let's just say the ROI from Q1 2014 alone was extremely significant...happier dance. I translated SEO efforts into a dollar amount for executives, and it was GOOD....Happiest dance!
Thanks for chiming in Cyrus. You guys keep me loving the slog! :-)
Aww! Thanks for the shoutout, Dana! Happy I could help in some way. :)
Apart looking for a new job in a company that may value your efforts better?
Ok, that's not really my answer (but, yes, it could be considered an option).
In order to not repeating what Cyrus already wrote, and that I subscribe in everything, my suggestion is to start pairing conversions assisted by SEO so to offer a value-metric that is surely more resonating to your board of directors than simply "organic traffic".
In fact, traffic by itself is not a metric an CEO may be really interested about. But if you show him how that organic growth meant also conversions' growth... then things start being different.
Because that will help making more interesting everything related to CRO, better UX, PageSpeed... and using those arguments you can also push more technical SEO stuff as an addendum (i.e.: the pagination issues to talked about in our Q&A).
Strength and honor, Dana, Strength and honor.
Gianluca, you always make me smile. Your love for the business is infectious and your comments here are something I always look forward to. Yes, I think key to surviving the slog is soldiering on and fighting the good fight. Thanks so much for responding to my comment. You guys give me the strength to continue the work I *mostly* love every day ;-)
If their primary concern is rankings for a particular set of keywords they may need to be educated on the current realities of search. It's really hard telling what position they're going to be in for any given searcher what with localization, personalization, socialization and how often the SERPs layout itself changes.
If you focus on a metric that resonates with them more, such as revenue from organic search, they may understand that they have been missing the forest for the trees. If you're having problems tracking that sort of thing then your issue may have more to do with analytics than your onpage and offpage SEO factors. I'd get an analytics audit and have someone help you really nail down the tracking of EVERY goal - from newsletter signups to purchases, or whatever the goal/s may be - and don't let other departments (e.g. affiliate, social, direct...) take the attribution for your hard work.
On a more personal note, I can sympathize with you and can say that you are not alone. A lot of times a company doesn't realize just how much their SEO has been doing for them until the person is gone and something goes horribly wrong. I'd say if you've managed to keep them from being penalized over the last few years then you're doing better than a heck of a lot of in-house SEOs these days.
Keep up the good fight!
Thanks so much Everett. I have so much respect for you and still remember that awesome Mozinar you gave on eCommerce :-) Yes, one thing I've never really had to spend time worrying about is shady link tactics or cleaning up messes from past bad linking strategies. One thing this company is good at is #RCS. This makes my job when trying to acquire links so much easier and far less of a slog than some other things. We have watched competitors who did use shady tactics slowly start to suffer from penalties (albeit VERY slowly), so I think much of what needs to be done is to stay the course and keep doing what we are doing. As a small company, things move slowly and budgets can be small, so projects get done very slowly. My own mantra in SEO is that it takes time, patience and intelligent work. Yes, it's a slog sometimes, but so is anything worthwhile.
Awesome comments from you, Christy, Cyrus and Gianluca. Great post Rand. You guys keep me going and epitomize what is best about SEO.
Hi Dana, congratulations for hanging in there and producing positive results -- despite some major challenges! You hit the nail on the head when you said the "slog" seems to be related to the need for an internal PR campaign for SEO and how much it has improved. In my experience, getting stakeholders to "get" SEO on a high level is a core part of an in-house SEO's job. Cultivating SEO evangelists within the organization who have your back is immensely helpful in accomplishing this. Key influencers in sales, any marcom department, and IT/dev are especially helpful.
So you have solid data showing that things are improving, but no one seems to be listening, eh? This is sooo frustrating! Not knowing the details of your particular situation, I agree with Everett's suggestion to focus on a metric that resonates with them more (preferably tied to revenue), and to measure the source of every conversion possible, bringing in an outside consultant if that's what it takes. Make sure that your SEO goals integrate with the overall goals of the company as tightly as possible.
You may also want to take a hard look at your reporting process. Perception, as we know, is everything. And presentation isn't far behind. As no one is paying attention to the positive results you are producing, perhaps you can figure out a way to present your data in a way that is more in sync with their communication style. For instance, are you providing easily digestible executive summaries with your reports? What about graphics, charts, and other visual representations of results? Are their opportunities to present your results in real time?
Hang in there, Dana. You know your stuff, and I'm confidant you'll figure out a way to show it so that you receive the appreciation you deserve -- or move on to a place where that happens, as Gianluca mentioned. You're doing great! Really, you are -- so much better than you realize!!
Christy, excellent comments and you are exactly right. I totally view the fact that they aren't getting it as my responsibility and an indication that I need to improve how I'm communicating results. Part of the "slog" is that search for continually doing something better, presenting it more clearly, communicating more effectively.
I have worked here long enough to know that our CEO is very visual. Thanks once again to Annie Cushing (I know I mention her a lot, but some of the things she's taught me to do with Excel have had a huge impact), I did exactly as you suggested and translated what the increase in organic traffic really means for the company's bottom line. I didn't use any conjecture, only cold hard numbers. But, I took those cold hard numbers and made them into beautiful charts that communicated the story in a glance. The best thing about it, was that it validated my feelings with real, tangible data. That felt really, really good.
Sorry to hear that, Dana, and as others have said, congratulations on what is clearly real progress. Sad to say, there are sometimes organization that simply don't have the right mindset and may never have it, but let's assume that isn't the case.
A friend of mine wrote a good book about doing UX in a large organization, and what was interesting to me is that a good chunk of it revolved around the politics. I've heard similar things from not only my in-house SEO friends, but my friends who are enterprise SEO consultants. Big organizations need a lot of communication and hand-holding, and it can sometimes feel like that's most of your job. That's not easy, but it is, for lack of a better word, normal.
I mention that UX book because I've heard a couple of UX people talk about the importance of not only communicating up, but of building cross-departmental alliances. As Cyrus said, everyone is struggling for recognition and, sometimes, when this brings out the worst in people, it turns into fighting for credit and an unwillingness to give other credit. So, even if the situation isn't your fault, you sometimes have to start by helping other people get credit and/or move their projects forward.
For SEOs, this usually means engineers and designers. While engineers and designers can seem obstinate to the outside world, the reality is that they're often just unappreciated and overloaded. If you can, find a way to make your goals sync with them, and help them get their job done and make their numbers. Be generous with credit to others, even if you know you're getting shorted on credit yourself. I'm not just saying this in an altruistic way, but because even in an organization with problems, those favors do tend to come back to you. At first, it may just mean that engineers and designers are a bit more willing to help you implement what you need done, and that's a great first step. Later, it may mean that they involve you in decisions and share credit with you.
If you fight that battle and none of that happens, then honestly, maybe that's a sign that this just isn't the organization for you to be at.
Thanks Dr. Pete. Yes, I think the building of alliances is crucial. I totally prescribe to the mantra that the best way to get where you want to go is to help someone else get where they want to go, so I get that and believe in it strongly.
I think the one piece that may be missing is something Christy said: "Make sure that your SEO goals integrate with the overall goals of the company as tightly as possible."
After I read that I sat here thinking: "Wow, short of 'increase profit.' I'd be at a loss to tell you what the company goals are."
I think I need to ask some questions, get answers, and make sure that whatever I am doing contributes to those goals. Maybe I'm figuratively working to put the wrong building on the wrong foundation? That would be a slog indeed.
I must admit that I lost quite good potential clients just because I was brutally honest and substantially told them that their expectation were maybe plausible in an alternative universe.
Said that, I prefer loosing those kind of clients that having to deal daily with them.
Talking about expectations, I always try to define a big set of from short term to long term objectives, so that there's not just one big "meta-physical" expectation (we want to rule the world of [put an industry niche here]), and those scheduled objectives are:
Point 2 is crucial also if we are just working on the Search area of our clients, and not coordinating the much wider Inbound spectre of Marketing. Even if we have just 3 grams of brain we should have already understood why: the interconnections existing between actions done in Social on Search (and vice versa), Content and Social and then on SEO... and so on and in a sort of "Butterfly effect of holistic marketing"
That's why, I tend to tell that Search may offer immediate return for certain things (i.e.: a medium to high already authoritative site can literally conquers SERPs with just a perfect on-page optimization), but that in most cases the real positive effects must be looked for in the long-term period.
But, I continue, there are other things not completely pertaining to the SEO's kingdom that affects SEO itself: branding, social, content and even online marketing, and that as much SEO is favorited by them, those actions/disciplines can be optimized and improved by SEO too... and those are the "other expectations" we presented to our clients.
Obviously, all this leads to having a wider range of signals and metrics to report, more interaction with all the areas of our client's company and even with other providers the client may have hired... it's not time anymore for SEO in a Ivory Tower.
"I must admit that I lost quite good potential clients just because I was brutally honest and substantially told them that their expectation were maybe plausible in an alternative universe."
Same here, Gianluca. But at the end of the day, I'd rather be the guy who told them it'd be tough than the guy who told them it'd be easy. And besides, when they have been bitten, they'll remember to come back to you, and if that happens, they should be more trusting and willing to take on-board what you say.
"I prefer loosing those kind of clients that having to deal daily with them."
This is so true. Nothing is a bigger resource drainer than a client with unrealistic expectations. Brutal honesty is actually a selling point as well as it tells clients you understand the difficulty of doing things the right way.
Gianluca,
You almost always have a lengthy feedback on every post posted. Not only lengthy but also very prompt! Not also prompt, but also very accurate, diving deep into the subject. Is this a part of an SEO strategy that you follow?
(Your answer could be a whole new post...)
First of all, thanks!
Second... I don't follow any SEO strategy with my long comments, I am simply talkative. And that's a consequence of my education both in school and family, which taught me to justify things by reasoning. And also because my own nature should be of using just epigrams... and they could be quite cryptic to understand by those who doesn't know me.
On the other hand, surely long, accurate and reasoned comments can help SEO both directly and indirectly:
1) because they add semantic context to the web document;
2) because they can help the original post resonating better to the audience, especially if the comments create a debate;
3) because of two the post may obtain better social media visibility and, ultimately, links.
And this is what comments should be, also as a "SEO tactic", and that's why I consider quite a strange decision the one sites like Copyblogger had to quit comments and move the conversations about their contents outside of their own sites and just in social media.
Awesome. The graph alone is worth a million bucks. I think I'm going to point every client from now on to that graph to help set expectations!
Agreed. Setting expectations early on is essential, as is identifying metrics- this graph helps in both ares.
Thanks Rand.
Now, it'll be bit easy for me to explain this to my boss ;)
I tried explaining multiple times but there wasn't any reaction, but this time I am sure, there will be positive action :)
I'm glad that you mentioned diversifying your inbound traffic channel. I've seen far too many cases where an SEO campaign was sold as an end-all solution. Although I believe SEO is a big piece of the puzzle, it obviously isn't the only channel that needs to be focused on. This can sometimes be hard for business owners / clients to understand, which is why I believe it's important to make a point about diversification at the beginning of a campaign along with the expectations.
Agreed... As a matter of fact, I find it to be a yellow flag for the project when diversification of traffic is not embraced. This is an indication that the client/customer still feels that SEO has some magical properties where you get more out of it than you put in.
In this day and age depending on SEO and organic as your only means of traffic is a recipe for disaster.
Good post Rand. When we sign new clients I make sure that the sales team understands what to convey to the clients so that they have a firm understanding of what we will be doing, and 6 months down the road, they are not disappointed because they don't see something that was promised when they signed. We stress the fact that this is a long-term partnership, and there are no set 'dates' as to when something specific will happen.
I believe the best way to prevent this "Slog" effect is by being transparent in your reporting, and including reference points to all activities on a monthly basis. We may not be #1 for "keyword X" yet, but let's look at what we have accomplished since you joined us. (directories/citations, social media, traffic increase, content assets, website optimization, keyword reports, email marketing, etc). There should 'always' be something to show or report on with the client, and I feel, for the most part, that as long as you can show that your doing something to benefit them in the long-run, the client will typically be satisfied.
Occasionally, you'll run into people who are stubborn, run out of money, become influenced by other "SEOs", and things like that, but if you do your part to show what you're doing on their behalf, what else can you do? At some point efforts should result in increased calls/leads/etc, and if they don't, well then at that point the client has a right to cancel and complain in my opinion.
It really comes down to setting expectations upfront, keeping them in the loop, and justifying where their money is being spent and what we hope to accomplish by doing what we're doing with it.
Another tactic that works well when keeping clients happy is to become ingrained in their business. Take over their social. Manage their website/server. Manage their adwords. If you can become responsible for more of their online activities, there is a significant decrease in the chance of them leaving you based solely on SEO efforts.
This may have been the most encouraging Whiteboard Friday - or even Moz Blog - I've seen/watched/read. Simply knowing that I'm not the only SEO who's been doubted, slammed, and pressed by bosses and others above me because of this "slog" time referenced.
Seriously, there were times where I felt like what I was doing was incorrect or only applied in certain circumstances. Thank you Rand for explaining it all so well and visualizing this highly-sensitive portion of an SEO campaign. Thanks for sourcing the original work, too! I found the other blog post really encouraging too.
Have a good weekend, all.
You are definitely not alone. But those of us who are aware of the dynamic can articulate it and prepare for it. I think that good clients will respect you for having the experiential awareness needed to predict what will happen. People don't like surprises, and if you can give them an idea of what's round the bend, many are very appreciative.
Awesome Rand as always! I will be translating this to Spanish so I can distribute this to every one of my clients.
I will be adding the link in all my proposals.
Thanks
Carla
You made an excellent point about when things are going right with your SEO and how dangerous that is sometimes. When people see something working, they tend to stick to it religiously, showing complete disregard for any new changes Google may have implemented over time.
I just wanted to say I'm glad you pointed that out! I try telling clients SEO is a lot like a fitness regimen. You can't just reach a level of fitness and then stop. If you stop, you lose everything you worked so hard to build. It's a constant change, but it's always one worth doing just like training in the gym.
Nice one Rand!
I think this article is a must read for account managers out there.
I have heard of account managers who promise clients something which is not possible like page 1 position in 3 months for a very competitive keyword. They are under pressure to bring clients on board and then they put pressure on their SEO team to make the impossible happen.
That's when the "effort" starts and well teams do away with quality control and the client website suffers in the end.
Clients should be a given a clear picture of their website and they should be told what are the short term and long term prospects of their website as incorrect/impossible estimates will only create frustration for both the client and the company.
So very true. Account Managers just blindly commit anything and everything. Their explanation from us: You just completed the similar project!! what's the problem :O ???
Good stuff Rand, I might reference that chart too if thas ok. My particular takeaway from this is the potential complacency you can have when you meet a KPI, particularly for in house SEO's I find that they think its all good, now lets either go onto the next goal or just ease off a bit on optimisation, instead of bolstering for example the new ranking gained. I've also dealt with sales people early on in my career who would sell unrealistic time frames then the consultants would have to deal with the angey emails and calls 3-6 months later!
I thought that Scott Clark's article on 'Thriving the SEO Slog' was one of the best SEO related articles I have read for a long time - who knows, maybe it just struck a chord with me (I ended up writing a follow up blog post for it with more factors that I thought were important. I'm going to have to update it now!). I think that one of the main things that you and Scott rightly pointed out was setting unrealistic expectations. Although when does this happen? For me, like Martin mentioned in the comments, this starts right from the sales process. First impressions count, and when companies are trying to make a sale (especially if it is a big contract) they are likely sugar coat some of the processes. I suppose it is only human nature, they get blinded by the light of a potential deal and think "oh we can reset expectations later once everything is signed". Absolutely not. Their original expectations will always be the anchor by which you are judged so they have to realistic.
The other thing that you pointed out was getting carried away with successes. After a few months where you might have been working really hard but not seeing results - and maybe getting what Scott dubbed an 'ambush' it is all too easy to call the client and set his expectations even more out of sync when you see some results. Maybe us SEOs just need to learn to control ourselves!
I may well take either yours or Scott's graphs to my next meeting and see how it goes down - will have to let you know.
Psst Simon... why did you quit the link to your blog post? It was ok and relevant (and an interesting post)... that's why it passed the moderation control at first.
For all the readers: links in comments are always fine if they are relevant to the discussion. Don't be afraid to link out if those links are so. Here at Moz every link is checked and moderated if it's the case :)
great that you point that out. If it is stuff for the visitors its pretty ok - i am so unlucky that my blog is in german - wont be that helpful for MOZ readers and german blogs in that quality dont allow links in comments - no matter wich...
We are 10 years behind sometimes...
Hi Gianluca,
I realised that it was uploaded by one of the other partners so had his name on it - maybe a little panic on my side! Have changed it back, and updated the actual article to include what Rand spoke about.
Thanks for pointing it out thought, I think a lot of people (especially new members like myself) are slightly anxious to post links to their own stuff. Obviously within reason, will bear it in mind for the future.
Cheers
For what it's worth, Gianluca is exactly right -- if a link to your own material/site is relevant to the conversation and could offer some additional resources to readers who are learning about the topic at hand, then we'd love for you to include it (same goes for authors in the posts themselves). =)
Nicely said. Thanks much for the shout out and the follow up to my post. I've dropped a link to you on mine.
There is wide gap between what sales guys tell & what we SEO's can do mostly, after the "delta of dissatisfaction" it would be like we are people incapable of doing something more better or keep up some thing better, moreover the Client wants to see more & more improvements every month that pass by.
...for the same price.
Totally agree with you Alen! Sales guys commits very high expectations to the client to get the client on board and then it makes SEO's to achieve those expectations very difficult in a given period of time.
Really an important whiteboard Friday for many of the people but I wish to have one answer from MR RAND why 6 months. For small business with investment of few hundred dollars per month what can we give them in 6 months?
I think If I am not wrong you have to mention here that 6 months time frame are just for example. It varies from industry to industry and keyword difficulty.
Thanks for sharing that! I think this was just what I needed to read to boost up some confidence right now! I really loved the graphs. Keep putting in the time/money and effort and soon you will reap the rewards! Really useful article.
[link removed]
Well said Rand these are always great to deal with and I think if we do the things according to what we need to do tit will be good for the site and especially for the SEO. I also do agree with Martin and his views are exactly what we all want to have, whatever you are doing in your SEO techniques but if you are providing the best results to your clients there is nothing important more than that.
This clears Surviving the SEO Slog, that worths over 10 Million.
At first the graph seems counter-intuitive, as you'd think that client expectations go up over time. But what it represents to me is the client's willingness to PAY for SEO work to be done, and that DOES go down over time unless they are seeing results.
Some companies are willing to fork over substantial fees for what they perceive as a one-month "magic wand" of SEO over their site, but are less likely to take that same fee and split it over 6 months for the longer and more tedious work of adding, testing, and optimizing.
The challenge is getting them to understand the process and hang in there, and as Rand says, setting the expectations is important. I like to show case studies where there were rankings successes, but show clients the analytics graph that displayed how long it took, and how varied it was across different areas.
Fact is, many companies are accustomed to marketing efforts that pay off more quickly, like paid advertising, so it helps to make this direct comparison and draw the comparisons between those types of efforts and their short-term success, vs SEO and it's long-term opportunity.
This is what quality SEO has always been about - content marketing is not new, it's just SEO being rebranded. Hence the phrase 'organic' still being used. Ever done any gardening?
why is it always I think that your tutorial and techniques told in the tutorial are always targeted towards the only search engine 'Google' and not bing or any other SE. I personally use Bing and I have my 94% target traffic from bing. My sites alexa is under 30K.
Amazing White board Friday, thanks for posting graph like this , it is very depression in SEO slog time me and my client .... today seo is going to broad and long term .... but clients are not understand .....
Migration point #2 reminds me of this statistics/Wire Gem:
"A Wise man once told me years ago when I wasn't even a Sergeant that you should never take credit when the crime rate drops unless you want to take the blame when it rises."
Obviously with SEO you have to take some credit but you (And the client) always need to be aware of external factors and stuff outside of your control...
Great video. I love that he pointed out and addressed this issue that I feel most SEOs (including myself) encounter.
I just got what I was looking for weeks. Excellent stuff Rand. The SEO slog time is really very depressing and kind of demotivating. I am putting a lot of efforts on my website since August but I was worried because the traffic is stuck on 3000 visitors per day for 2 months.
Thanks for letting me know what is actually happening there.
Great WBF this week Rand! This reminds me of a post I did on Social Media Today "Don’t Believe the Hype! How Long Should It Actually Take to Get Results From SEO?” I like the idea of using that chart in presentations. It could really help with visually explaining expectations. Dealing with false expectations and trying to set realistic expectations seem to be some of the toughest challenges SEO's face—the non-zombie SEO's of course.
I have a saying that I use in my personal life that I think I may start applying to my professional life as welland that’s “Expectations are premeditated resentments”. I have to be so careful how I manage the expectations of my clients, team members and associates. So many problems can be avoided by just setting the right expectations and not making lofty promises.
Amazing White board Friday; it is really frustrating when things not go according to your expectation. I thought this is only happen with me but after watching this I realize that this happen with a lot on SEO’s in the industry. Also a great way to stay safe is that don’t rely on only SEO anymore always try different inbound channels such as Social Media Marketing, Paid Marketing, Content Marketing etc. No matter how strong your Search rankings are never ignore the power of other inbound channels.
Thank you so much for doing a Whiteboard on this! A ton of clients do not really understand that before seeing a return on investment, investment (and an investment in terms of time) has to be made first.
Things do not happen overnight and some clients do write-off SEO if there isn't huge results in the first month, while in reality, the work and time put in will only pay off over a number of months. It's also about continually developing, improving and implementing SEO strategies - it isn't a once-off thing, nor is it the only 'traffic strategy' that should be focussed on.
Yes 100% agreed with you Rand.
There is a lot of frustration within ourselves when results wouldn't be according to our expectations.
I really enjoy the interviews with SEO folks they claim all the things what I better know is quite not possible within certain period of time.
Anyways like always you had done a superb job with WBF. 100 likes for you. Thanks
Great vid Rand! I have done a blog post that ties into this topic: So, That’s Why You’re Leaving SEO!
Nice whiteboard Friday thanks. There is also the step of explaining SEO is not magic and it's not a guarantee of page 1!
I always like to under-promise and over deliver then visa versa.
...and that's I went to pay for traffic instead of pay per position (effect). Very often I had the situation client is unhappy because conversions are so small, traffic too, but keywords are well chosen. Traffic is way important than be on the top for a few main keywords.
Yikes. Pay for performance SEO is a dangerous, dangerous thing IMO. Especially when responsibility for ranking rests also with the client. I'll quote myself from the original article "The Slog exists partially due to an ongoing shift from SEO initiatives executed by the SEO’s company towards SEO initiatives that require significant client effort as well. Simply put, the client must take a leap of faith that their increasing efforts (in content development, blogging, social sharing, etc.) based on your recommendations, will pay off."
perseverance and patience is very important. i fully understand why google does not immediately reward for good deeds as trust over time is probably an important factor. for example if you have a family member that for years has been flaky and for 3 months he has been ok, do you not remember his past and give him #1 rankings... (not the best example but hope that makes sense)
Great WBF Rand and Awesome Article Scott! This is solid advice for us all to vocalize the true intrinsic value of what we do, up front to my clients without fear of rejection or loss. Capital flows to wherever its most comfortable and since inbound marketing is proven to be highly effective its value has risen over time and competition for success has increased. The bar must be raised in regards to the time, human resources and capital required from clients, coupled with with a firm commitment to continually provide the necessary resources for the remainder of the business' life cycle.
I think some of our clients may be spoiled from cashing in during the heydays, so its imperative they undergo a paradigm shift to recognize the real resources associated with sustainable visibility in today's SERPs. Effective SEO should no longer come at a discount when compared to traditional marketing channels. It doesnt help that our industry is riddled with crafty sales people selling rabbit poop and calling it chocolate.
Create the right exeptions and when its working good - calm the clients down to earth!
Thats so true... A very nice WBF - have a nice WE everybody!
outstanding advice. Getting caught up in sharing expectations that turn out difficult to meet within the set time frame. Some times it turn out better then others, still struggling to find the right momentum amidst all the google updates.
Thanks Rand for keeping us honest
Cheers from San Antonio
Great post. I often times hire writers and contractors on Elance and similar freelance sites. I sometimes browse the SEO job listings and always get a kick out of the posts that go something like this:
"White hat SEO wanted. 100 high quality links per month needed, no spam or automated link building. Budget: Less than $500."
Really?!? Good luck with that folks :)
I think SEO can be a one time investment in a low to medium competition arena. I have a lot of sites that I optimized once by doing all the onpage optimizations and building good links for them and those sites rank very well since many years. It was certainly much better for them than doing nothing. But of course you need ongoing SEO if you have a high competition situation. All I want to say is that One Time SEO is not always dead wrong.
One time SEO can only be suitable in a 'Monopoly Market' scenario where there is not much that would change over the years. And this does not apply to almost any website. There is no monopoly in the WWW world. What can be done is One Time SEO with other SM platforms helping to maintain that ranking for you. As Rand mentioned you need to keep an eye on the patterns that are formed and plan accordingly.
Imagine you are a dentist in Dortmund, Germany and you have a web site. You have the choice: No SEO at all or One-Time-SEO with very good onpage optimization and about 20 very good links. What would you go for? Would you not say: Yes in this case One-Time-SEO is much better and the site will benefit from it.
Michael emphasis is on is better to have something then nothing in limited budget.
Hay Michael, may be in your case one time SEO worked. But I think we need to keep our sites updating time to time. So we will not just be able to stand our from the crowd, but we will be able to rank well against new coming competitors as well.
One-Time-SEO always works. Lets say having 20 good link and a very good onpage optimization (Great meta titles, great content, nice alt texts etc.). Why should that not work? Of course "Many time Seo" is much better. But I didn't question that.
One time SEO/SEM is good if there's no competition...
thats what michael meant - aggree
I said low or medium competition. Let's say you make a site for an Indian restaurant in Hamburg, Germany with great interesting content (rich background information, nice youtube clips, SEO optimizied) and you collect 20 very nice links and some good comments in Yelp like sites. I guess it brings you very far for at least 10 years without adding any ongoing SEO work. Let's not forget that a good site and good service will generate automatically further good links and mentions. You just have to set up some SEO stuff in the beginning. That's it.
Of course high competition areas demand constant SEO work. No doubt about that.
I've moved away from getting clients to do ongoing SEO, partly because of this, and because of what Samuel Scott mentioned -- people just don't understand what "SEO" is or what it means. It ain't magic, folks!
People ask me things like "is this good for my SEO?" when the real question they're implying is, "will this help my keyword rankings?" and "dude, I've got to get to the top to get business".
To overcome this!, focus on marketing and show how SEO (on site optimization) is just a part of your marketing strategy. Charge for SEO once (even if it takes 3-6 months), do the best you can of on-site optimization, and then call that part complete (for your sake and your clients'!). Then move on to ongoing work, but it's now marketing campaigns that clients know, understand, and can get excited about. You already know that ongoing SEO work is actually marketing work that will benefit/influence their rankings!
Do a good job of marketing and you'll get better traffic from more sources, better rankings (woohoo!), and (best) you get your clients paying customers. They'll WANT to keep paying you, rather than feeling salty sending you a check for "SEO" every month.
like it :D
You are absolutely right Rand, Sometimes we are frustrated because we are not able to achieve what we want. Online marketing is becoming a very long term activity now. Online marketing is not a magic. If we want to achieve something than Patience and the constant efforts are the two keys which unlock your success door of Online Marketing.
According to me in the next 5 years The term "Search Popularity" will be more popular among the online marketers. If your website or your content will be popular on online marketing channel than and than Google will notice you and you will get your desire Search Ranking.
Like in the past we were talking about PR and Back links, In today's world we are talking about to Search Ranking. Likewise In the future We will talking about "search popularity"
In the future we will talking like this "Hey how much your site is popular in Google?"
I specially like one phrase in this video that is "create an Expectation".
Simply amazing in one word as you has explored a lot of information about the seo slog. Now days seo has become so difficult but how can be get good rank? for keywords like doorstep loans .
Sorry Rand :/
But today's Whiteboard Friday is little bit confusing. I didn't understand what were you trying to achieve. After watching video, I read the transcription also but it seems all those things bounce off. I hope someone can teach me in lay man term.
Check out Scott's article on this topic: https://www.buzzmaven.com/2014/02/surviving-the-slog.html. It's presented a little differently & may help you wrap your head around it.
The idea is that while a ton of effort is put towards SEO, the initial results may not be aligned with expectations. Rand provided some useful tips for avoiding disappointment - like setting more realistic expectations to begin with, understanding (& helping your team/client understand) that SEO is not a one-time project, not relying solely on organic search for inbound traffic, and measuring/reporting on metrics that might indicate SEO progress ahead (maybe more link signals, growing volume of long-tail rankings, and a stronger social following). Hope this helps! :)
Thanks Sheena! Well said.