Brands and company-specific brand name products have become much more important to search engines recently. Google tries to serve us with relevant content, so if it thinks we want to know more about Adidas or Puma, it's going to tell us about these brands rather than about the random online shoe stores that we'll probably click away from (you know the ones!). This might be great if you're a major brand, but what if you're not? And what's happening if you are? How is it working? This week, Rand is here to let us know more about search engines and how they rank brand name products and sites.
Video Transcription
Dobar den! Welcome to Whiteboard Friday. That's my attempt at some Bulgarian. I think "dobar den" means hello/good day in Bulgarian. We'll find out. I'm sure someone will comment on the blog.
Welcome to Whiteboard Friday. Good to be back in the States. Good to be back here in Seattle at SEOmoz Whiteboard Friday studios talking about an interesting topic that's come up quite a bit -- search engines and brand entities. There's this concept that's been talked about in the SEO world for a while, for a couple of years now, that Google sort of has this favoring of brands, of sites that have built up what you would call brand recognition and brand entities in the minds of consumers. It is sort of interesting because SEO folks have been asking some questions like, "Well, how do I know if I am a brand? What constitutes a brand and what doesn't? Why would Google be going in this direction? What can or should I be doing?" We don't have scientific great answers to all of these questions, but we can start to try and tackle some of them and at least get a lot of folks in the search marketing sphere thinking more about this branding stuff. I think that definitely the changes that Google's been making around the Vince update, maybe some of the things around MayDays, certainly some of the things around showing more branded results in queries when, for example, someone types in a search plus SEOmoz, they might be showing a lot more than just two results from the SEOmoz.org website thinking that there is a brand intent to show things from just one site.
So, first let's start by talking about why brands? Why does Google care so much about this? There's that famous quote, of course, from Eric Schmidt, Google's president, that Aaron Wall has brought up on SEO Book a number of times saying, you know, "Brands are how we sort out the cesspool." So, there is this cesspool of content on the Web, a lot of it being stuff that users don't want.
You can kind of imagine this if you put yourself in the mind and the shoes of a searcher. Shoes particularly, right. So, in this case, Google is kind of looking at these the way a human would. So maybe we've got our guy over here and he's sort of looking at these different sites. He's done a search for running shoes. He sees Adidas, which makes tons of sense; Adidas is a running shoe brand. Great, great thing to have in the result. Puma, sure. Vibram, okay, that's kind of an emerging brand coming up. And then there is tennis-shoe-store. Yeah, I mean, maybe they've done a great job earning links and maybe they have a good website and that kind of thing, but consumers get kind of suspicious of this. Searchers get kind of suspicious of this. The non-brand results bring some dissatisfaction. You can see that in some of the search engine research and result testing that various organizations have conducted, including the search engines themselves. You can kind of feel it viscerally. When you look through the results yourself you kind of go, "Man, I don't know about these. It's a lot of hyphenated domains and sites I've never heard of. Can I trust them?" I go and visit them and they look sort of almost SEO heavy but not content or usability heavy. It's so frustrating, right. I think Google is kind of saying, "Hey, we've got some ways to identify this. Maybe we'll send some of the preferences over to brands."
So, let's try and tackle the question, what makes a brand? What is it that separates a brand from a non-brand in the minds of the search engines when it comes to domains, when it comes to websites and pages? You can think of a lot of different things. Certainly Google has put out some patent applications that suggest some of the things they might look at. They made an acquisition of a company called Metaweb that does a lot of these things, including a service called Freebase that kind of makes entity associations from context and text and word usage. These things can include stuff like appearance and repetition of text content. You can imagine that Adidas, Puma, and Vibram, these show up on the Web a lot more than tennis-shoe- store.info or whatever it is. There is kind of this idea, "Huh, maybe that's a brand, maybe that's not." And then there is context of use and positioning of that text and content. You can see that those brands are all mentioned in news and they're mentioned in blogs. They're in stores. They're in different stores both on and off the Web. They're in eCommerce shops. They're featured in traditional media outlets, online and offline. You see them in offline media as well. They show up in links. They show up in advertising. Certainly things like Google's acquisition of DoubleClick and looking at tools like the DoubleClick Ad Planner could give you some insight into things that they view as brands and entities and how they associate those verus sites that they don't really have an audience association or brand association with. The brands appear in things like patents. They appear in licenses. They appear in government and official documentation. There is all this sort of context and use of positioning.
Finally, brands have these user base kind of signals as well. Brands get talked about when people participate in social media. They get talked about when people perform search queries themselves. If Google sees that lots of people are searching for things like Adidas, Puma, and Vibram, but not searching for tennis-shoe-store, that could be a signal that this is a brand entity and these aren't. There is language and communication which Google has been getting heavily into. They have their GOOG-411 service. They certainly power Gmail. They power a lot of other services where they are essentially looking at what's being talked about, what's being said, what's being recorded, and written by humans all across not just the Internet but across our societies. All of these signals might help Google to make associations around what is a brand and what is not and then return results that are sort of this brand biasing.
A lot of this is sort of interesting theoretical stuff, but I know that many SEOs are going to be asking the question, "Well, what do I actually do with this data?" So, some good things to keep in mind is that we as SEOs sometimes ignore branding. We ignore the impact of let's do broad-based advertising, let's participate in display, let's participate in media or in video or in offline advertising or in things like getting our brand name out there and events, those kinds of things. We become very obsessed and focused on just sort of the very basic elements of SEO -- the on-page, getting links, those kinds of things. That might work. But if you're seeing this brand biasing, you might think about some of these branding tactics as a way to move your site and your rankings forward.
Secondarily, don't let your SEO get ahead of your organic momentum. What I mean by that is, I see and feel a lot of the times that many SEOs who get very aggressive with their domains, particularly in competitive spaces where there is brand preferences or where Google appears to be trying to do some of those things, we'll see that they'll do a great job earning links. They'll get lots of good anchor text. They'll earn those links to those pages. They might not always be from the best sources, and they don't do a lot of these types of things. People are not saying things about them in social media. They're not positioned in context. They are not mentioned in the news and in natural normal blogs, offline stuff, and advertising. They appear to be these sort of solely pseudo Internet brands. That could potentially be a negative signal, or at least it might not track as well as someone who's got both signals going.
You know, as part of that, finally, I would say, try and work on making your site and your product and the naming conventions that you use as brand friendly, as branding friendly, as possible. All of those things are going to potentially impact the way your brand is perceived.
The great thing about all of this stuff, about these recommendations and about the concept of branding in general, is that there's a lot of psychology, a lot of years, decades of marketing science and research going to the fact that, hey, brands get positively associated in consumers' minds and they drive a lot more behavior. They drive sales, traffic, demand, and all these kinds of things. Certainly search engines can help with that, but remember that in one case when you're doing brand building, you are sort of building and creating demand that might not have existed otherwise. When you're doing SEO, all you can really do is serve existing demand, rank for the kinds of things that people already are searching for. This is a great thing to be thinking about not just from an SEO perspective, from a rankings perspective, but from a company building perspective and from a holistic marketing effort. It certainly feels like SEO is going in that direction.
All right, everyone. Take care. We'll see you again next week for another edition of Whiteboard Friday.
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Rand, you say: "This is a great thing to be thinking about not just from an SEO perspective, from a rankings perspective, but from a company building perspective and from a holistic marketing effort. It certainly feels like SEO is going in that direction."
But, my feeling personally, is that if you get to that point, it's not really SEO anymore - in fact, SEO can pretty much be removed from the equation. I've seen some perfectly horrible sites rank well, simply because they are based on a known brand - and most of that branding took place in the offline marketing space.
Myself, I end up working with mostly small businesses - my advice to them more often than not revolves on getting the SEO basics for their sites right, but not to see it as some sort of magic solution for getting business - because just doing SEO/buying links ... you know - getting stuck in traditional SEO patterns aren't going to do anything for them unless they get their name out - and, this means getting people to talk about them, whether it is in newspapers, word-of-mouth, simply giving excellent service.
Google's actually being very hard on the small guy - so to conclude my advice to them I usually tell them to use social media, be active, but get used to doing things offline as well.
Actually, your link-building tips for bloggers give some good pieces of advice that can be adapted for small business sites as well
Completly OK with you! Google boost Big brand and small players have to be strong in social media and offline
Agreed. This was a great overview on the importance of Branding, but it does make me nervous thinking that things are headed in a direction that will only make it more difficult to server and help very small businesses that want to succeed online.
That said, most of the small businesses we work with are focused on local SEO, so I'd be interested to see the impact of branding on a micro level (e.g. We have a great BBQ place close by with the craziest brand name I've ever heard: "OinkaDoodleMoo", but people search for it, talk about it, buy deals on Groupon, etc. and they're doing really well.)
Though it's not crucial that ALL websites implement ALL of these branding techniques, it does stand to reason that each of these aspects of brand detection could be useful boosts to existing basic SEO efforts.
OinkaDoodleMoo is a fantastic name for a BBQ joint Kyle! It's fun to say and without even having heard of it before your comment, I know that they serve pork, chicken and beef BBQ. And now thanks to you my mouth is starting to water thinking about BBQ ribs.
Snap! And all I have planned for dinner is a salad. Double Snap!
Haha, I hope you enjoyed your dinner! Agreed: that name is genius. It would be fantastic if all brand names were that concise, enticing and fun, huh?
Great video Rand !
P.S. "Dobar Den" do means "Good day" in Bulgarian :)
Excellent he got it right! Thanks MDimov!
I think one of the big questions SEOs will have is how to establish a 'brand presence' quickly at Google. The kind of onpage 'brand keyword spamming' sounds interesting, but what about simply featuring the brand name in the title tag of every page (SEOmoz does it? That's a hint, right?).
The citation idea echoes the local search metrics. Wasn't it David Mihm who suggested "Citations are the new Links" when discussing Local SEO. Well, regular 'brand-esque' citations are surely another metric.
Of course, having a brand-heavy anchor text in inbound links seems like another, natural factor. People are going to link to Adidas with the word Adidas not 'cheap discounted trainers'.
On the subject of branded keyword phrases, I remember coming across Best Buy whilst researching in an electronics niche. The guys are totally dominant! - https://freekeywords.wordtracker.com/searches/best%20buy
Ciao Rand (and Mozzer tribe).
When you talk of Holistic Marketing as the direction SEO is going to, I cannot but agree, remembering also what I wrote few months ago here on YOUmoz and all the comments that post caused.
Maybe we should have to call SEO Search Experience Optimization and not just Search Engine Optimization
These kind of reflections are on the air actually (check this post interview too by BruceClayinc).
And that things are changing and that an holistic vision to internet market as to be taken by SEOs is evident just looking at the SERPs today and confronting them to just a couple of years ago.
It is not just a question of Branding, but Branding is surely going to be a huge factor if a Web presence still want to be that: a presence.
With Google (and Bing) getting more and more user-retaining (how many things you can find directly in Google and not from Google?... next Products), to own a recognized brand popping up also for not branded search is even more important now for any web based industry or industry that sees in the web a big portion of its revenues.
On a SEO industry perspective, it is not anymore possible to be "just" SEOs. That can be a huge problem for man-agency-consultant, but not impossible to solve: connecting with others, creating some sort of cooperations between experts in the different fields of online marketing, that could be an option (and something many already do).
SEO seems going to an hiperspecialisation fase (Local, Video, International...), but at same time is being influenced by other web marketing disciplines (Social Media especially) while influencing even more than before web marketing itself with its methodologies (just think to the embryonic Social Search or the influence that SEO has on the evolution of web design).
Holistic is good keyword... even though maybe us SEO should simply have to start thinking in Marketing Mix terms :)
Great points and a great follow up to Rand's WBF (which was fantastic). I especially like your comment on SEOs thinking in Marketing Mix terms. I have been doing that a lot lately as I (the in-house SEO0 amd half of our marketing department at this business so I have to think in terms of general marketing and branding already even before SEs decided to heavily weight branded searches.
great point, particularly "Just SEO", I agree 100% with this
Thumbs up for the best use of the SEO acronym G. First time I'd heard it. Search Experience Optimisation.
I am so going to be stealing this phrase G. :-] But no worries Mate. I'll give you attribution (in 2 point typeface buried in the footer...just kidding)
SEO - search experience optimisation. This is a good point.
I had a conversation at the end of last week with a digital media company who said they were SEO experts, and to be fair to them they knew the things the Google wanted like canonicalised URLs and redirects, but they were oblivious to the factors that those using the search engine would be looking for. It's great they were optimising sites for the engines, but they neglected to think about the experience for the person searching and the sites they created were too robotic. They were quite surprised when I was asking them about how the user would "find the experience" when finding and visiting the site and they had no answers as they were too focused on the engines.
BTW - this is in Australia where we are somewhat behind the US and Europe, but it's no excuse for SEO people to not keep up with developments.
Google's definition is different to the general definition.
Just because you are a brick and mortar brand doesn't give you that much of a head start. You have to do the SEO work as well as having a brand.
Doing a search in the UK for Harry Potter book or {bookname} book from the series. There is not a single traditional brick and mortar book business in the result.THis is exactly the type of search that Brand should work for but it doesn't.
The SEO works here and not Brand
Your reasoning is partly right, if you define as brick and mortar in the case of "Harry Potter book" shops like bookshops (being present only Amazon).
But I think the example is not totally correct, as Harry Potter is a brand itself that is distributed via different media: books (therefore Amazon, J.K. Rowling,, Bloomsbury, the editor), movies (therefore Warner), and more over is a cultural phenomenon that is "owned" by the fans, both of the books and movies, and that can explain the success of not brick and mortar but informative and "fan" based website as Hpana, Mugglenet, The-Weaky-Cauldron.com, apart the onmipresent Wikipedia.
The pop nature of Harry Potter is then evident from the fact the 1st results are News.
I think you totally nailed it about Harry Potter being a phenomenon that stands alone as a brand rather than as a title of a book series Gianluca.
I get your point Stephen, and I agree in as far as single brick and mortar locations go. But for those ubiquitous chains of brick and mortar, they would definitely have a leg up in Google's branding preferences.
Take for example "books" as the keyword. "Barnes and Noble", and "Powell's" are in the top 10 (at least from where I sit in the US).
Then try "restaurant". Again, from my location "Applebee's" and "Olive Garden" are in the top 10. Both mega chains.
My point is that they may have a leg up, but that by itself is not enough to rank well
Gotcha Stephen. Then I concur completely. SEO groundwork is a must even for the brick and mortars.
My point is that they may have a leg up, but that by itself is not enough to rank well
Hey Rand. I have a new tongue twister dedicated to this WBF...Rand the brand man takes a stand in SEO land telling non-brands to go pound sand. My apologies. I just couldn't resist with so many rhyming words jumping out at me waving signs saying "pick me!"
Love seeing stuff about branding. I think it's a vital step in a successful SEO campaign (using gfiorelli1's definition of SEO - Search Experience Optimisation) There are a plethora of companies that define branding as appending an "SM" or "TM" or "®" onto a word/sentence/phrase and IMHO it's much, much more.
You had mentioned the following "You can see that in some of the search engine research and result testing that various organizations have conducted, including the search engines themselves." Don't suppose you'd have any links to share to that research would you?
Finally, on a sad note, Google in their infinite wisdom have decided to put GOOG-411 out to pasture. It has gone to the big Google lab in the sky. <sniff>
Fantastic job in both marketing and language departments, Rand!
Vibram Five Fingers!!! A leading contributer to the quickly growing bare foot revolution.
Great Video Rand!
I just have one question though.. Why is it that Google says they are concentrating on Brand names but yet keywords in a domain are still a high ranking factor?
Surely Big Brands are not going to use the keywords they want to be #1 for in their URL. Case in point, Coca Cola. Coca Cola is the biggest soft drink brand in the world, yet Google doesn't rank it's official website in the top 10 search results for 'soft drink'. However, Google does show a set of horizontal results for "Brands" and "Stores" at the top of the serps. I can see why they are trying to do this, however I only saw the horizontal search result after the 3rd time I visited this page... And this horizontal search result doesn't show up every time (see below).
In general most domains with keywords in them will out rank a big brand associated to that keyword, even if the domain authourity of the branded domain is higher than the keyworded domain. Example: https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=clothes+store
theclothesstore.com has a domain authority of 31 and gap.com has a domian authority of 91. Yet theclothesstore.com still out ranks gap.com. If Google had to put more emphasis on brand surely gap.com would rank higher?
So many SEO'ers (me included) go after nasty looking keyword loaded domains to ensure our clients get to #1 for that keyword. It becomes a nightmare trying to manage all these satellite websites but in truth it works, that's why we do it. But it sucks from a branding perspective. I'd much prefer having one website with all the content sitting on it, rather than having multiple domains.
Wow I thought you one little Bulgarian phrase, and now you're showing off with it :) Nice! By the way, guys, to make Rand blush for a bit, he thought that "Dobar den", means "Googd evening", at lease somebody else tought him that ;)
Rand, well done for one more great WBF... this is a great complement to all the current buzz that's going on at the moment about brands and SEO. You are right that this is not scientific data but it is certainly valuable to know your insights about it and some of the points you make actually make a lot of sense... could all this emphasis on giving ranking prominence to big brands affect how much Google makes from them on Adwords advertising, stemming from the principle of 'higher organic visibility = less need to spend on sponsor links'?
Interesting topic Rand. It's something I've noticed in the past few weeks in the niche market I'm working on a website for. The keyword is a specific game in the hobby market, and for a long while a keyword affiliate site ranked #1 for the the most popular search term, followed by a product database, a 3rd party ad revenue gaming site, and then finally the company that actually makes the game.
This week, I noticed that the company which produces this game is now ranking #1 and #2 respectively with its company site as well as its event blog. The site's, in terms of basic SEO practicies such as use of keywords in meta titles, are ignored by the #1 and #2 search for this market. This is now followed by the database site, and then finally the affiliate keyword site.
It's become clear that I won't be able to get our website into the top 2 slots for a google search, but it's also a change I welcome. It was pretty ridiculous that unwanted search sites actually ranked above a company that is responsible for that product even being a relevant search term.
Have any of you seen the new "experiment" by Google Places that add in transactional data? If so do you know where this data is sourced from? I can't find any detail in Google searches.
@Rand
I think non keyword brand names will also have an impact, what do you think?
If you mean as not branded keywords, keywords like "computers" (a classical head tail), just try to do a search on Google.com and check the results.
Dell, PcWorld, Apple, Getaway, Bestbuy, Newegg, Alienware and the old tunes Wikipedia and Cnet (being a tech keyword).
No exact match domain names, and all recognized Brands and that act like Brands in the Marketing Mix.
Also the less (to me) known one (Tigerdirect.com) has a great presence in the News, that is one of the branding signals Rand cited.
In the "Computers" SERP also the related searches are 70% Brands
Only if you start getting deeper in the search term (e.g.: notebook computers, desktop computers...) therefore you can start seeing not universally bestknown as brands websites.
That means, IMO, that is in the long tail where a not branded still website should have to compete with SEO, being the long tail less dominated by brands.
But that doesn't mean that in the meanwhile that same website should need to plan branding marketing strategy.
And, I think it is important to remember, Brand are not just worldwide known businesses. I think that everybody where you live know that that shop with that name is where to go if you want to buy superb cookies: that shop is a local brand and, therefore, brandization could be possible also in a small and local business scale.
Good whiteboard Friday Rand. I think when it comes to online, you are what search engines esp. Google perceive you are. This is evident from the fact that just few years ago, some very big brands were not ranking well for their own brand names. You may be a big brand in the offline world but if you are not optimized right for search engines, then you may not rank for your own brand name or get branded search results. And here a seo comes handy. He/she can help in making a company a brand in the eyes of Google. Here are few tips and tricks:
1. If you are working on a new website, then try to include your brand name in the domain name. Ideally your brand name should be your domain name. If branding is a very important part of your marketing strategy then you should not get tempted by 'keyword rich domain names'. Think of the long term when it comes to branding.
2. Optimize your website for your brand name. Which means putting your brand name at the end of each title tag and in footer of each page (in the form of copyright message or business address.) 3
3. Do lot of directory submissions. You will get lot of citations and anchor text which contain your brand name from large number of unique root domains. So if say 500 websites address your business by same name, then Google may perceive it as your brand name.
4. If you wish to become synonym for your primary keyword, then take advantage of semantic analaysis. Get lot of citations and links with the anchor text 'Your Primary-keyword + brand-name'. This is one of the main reason why dell.com ranks no.1 for 'computers'. If your brand name also includes your primary keyword, then you will always get an edge over your competitors. This is one of the main reason why brands like seomoz, seobook, seochat etc rank so well for the keyword 'seo'.
5. Step 2,3 and 4 can be manipulated very easily, so Google has gone one step further and start looking for 'Your Primary-keyword + brand-name' mentions in real time contents and multiple media formats (blogs, images, videos, twitter stream etc). You can make this signal stronger by producing large volume of frequently shared contents which are optimized for your brand name or 'your primary keyword + brand name'. The key to success here is how frequently you are mentioned on social media for your brand name or branded keywords. I have found this signal to be very strong for branded search results.
Nice post!
Yes "Dobar Den" is Good day and your pronunciation is great :)
Good topic....
Dobar dan, Rand :) Great video. I'm taking more and more time thinking about brending in SEO last few months, and it's one of my favorite themes. As I see, thinking about brend shall be important item in chosing new domain name.
Yes,Rand, good attempt in Bulgarian, very good accent and great and usefull video lecture /as usual/:-) Thanks for putting Bulgaria on the World SEO map!:-)
And I appreciate your support for the SEO-community in Bulgaria. Thank's for that, Rand! And by the way a useful video...
nice to see that those terrible, thin, keyword rich domains might not rank as well in the future!
Thank you Rand. You gave a comprehensive résumé of that topic.
Great Video! Thanks Rand
Fantastic coverage Rand, really interesting stuff.