Some people really don't like this. Having the message provided in the email is certainly the quickest solution, but it drastically reduces the chances of a person clicking through to a site. In a limited sense, this isn't too much of a problem, but over time, this surely could result in a noticeable drop in traffic.
I've noticed more and more sites steering away from this model lately. Most recently, I have seen photo comments in Facebook notification emails containing the text of what the person wrote. Facebook notification emails already show the text of wall posts and private messages, but up until now, photo comments could only be seen on-site. To reply to any of these messages, one needs to visit Facebook, but people often don't. Consider this recent conversation I had with a friend:
Jane: Ooh you have a message!
Stephen: Nah, from a mate I used to work with. Read it in Gmail already.
Jane: I always do that and forget to open it. Then I get all excited. "A message!" And I've already read it.
Stephen: You should write a book about your tragic life.
Ignoring how tragic it is that I get excited about Facebook messages, it's true that I read messages in Gmail and, unless they warrant immediate attention, usually resolve to reply later. Later, I'll go to Facebook and notice that I have a new message. However, upon going to the inbox, I'll remember that I've already read it. Unless I need to reply, I'll frequently delete it without opening it again. My not clicking through means that Facebook serves at least two less advertisements than it would have otherwise.
Adding the content of blog and photo comments to notification emails seems even more dangerous. If a person is simply interested in keeping up with a conversation and not adding to it themselves, they can easily read everything they need to in their email accounts.
We know what it's like with sites like Facebook, too. I'll think I'm just going over to reply to a message or look at a photo comment, and I get distracted. I go to the home page and look at the news feed. I click around. Not following a notification email kills a lot of potential ad views and actions for Facebook or for any site which gives out too much information over email. My eyeball-time is given to Gmail instead.
If this practice is popular enough that companies don't want to get rid of it, would it be better to include only a snippet of the content? Perhaps a set number of words or a percentage of the text. After all, people are more likely to be interested in reading the rest of the message if they're only presented with half of it:
Many other sites, including Twitter and LinkedIn, follow this model. I'm not sure about this tactic because it is so convenient to read things via email. This is especially true with Gmail or any email system that threads email messages. However, it just seems vaguely counter-intuitive.
Some have likened these emailed messages as being like the difference between ordering delivery and eating in the restaurant. I disagree, because you still pay for the meal if you have it delivered. In fact, in some places, you pay more. When I receive the message elsewhere, I don't see any advertising (aside from Gmail's!), so a website whose revenue comes from ads is essentially giving me my meal for free.
A far better analogy is that of RSS feeds: People who prefer to read articles and posts through feed readers could easily digest everything a site puts out without ever visiting the site for themselves. A similar argument regarding RSS is whether or not sites should provide the full text of their posts in RSS.
Is the mostly positive user-experience of "delivery" messages a good one? I quite like reading my messages in the environment from which they were sent and I don't view that extra clicks as a bother. What do you think is the correct balance between ease of use for site members and creating an environment where people are most likely to visit a site?
How sad is it that I actually came here to get tips on keeping people away from my website? I'm so antisocial.
You should get SEOmoz to publish your comment history as a case study on how to keep people away. You don't need tips, babe. :)
I was going to... but then I remembered how my writing has a tendency to become wildly popular and overshadow everyone else's writing (e.g. on Sphinn). So out of consideration/pity for you, Lisa, I decided to sit this one out. =P
Isn't that what social media and the Web is about these days --giving us the ability to interact with sites they way we choose and on our terms? Look at FriendFeed.
Like you said, it's very much analogous to the old full feed vs. partial feed argument for blogs. And in the end, I think most blogs have come around to see that full feeds provide a better user-experience and therefore outweigh any loss in traffic or ad revenue.
In the end, for most sites, as long as users are interacting with you and staying engaged in your brand, the traffic doesn't matter. The targeted, highly engaged visitors are still going to find you.
Personally, I don't reply to Facebook messages less because I can read them off-site. I'd go as far as to say that I like the site more for not delaying my instant gratification and for putting me in front of their ad model. They're creating happier users.
So do it that way. And if the click to read the message isn't a bother to you, then clicking through to comment or respond shouldn't be one either. Perhaps your friends just don't send you interesting enough messages to evoke an immediate response. :)
agreed 100%. a good user experience will payoff in the long run. unfortunately this is a concept that most people dont' grasp these days.
i think most users want to be instantly gratified and get things as quick as possible and as easily as possible, yet marketers still make users jump through all kinds of hoops like filling out forms or logging into site, etc. just give them what they want as quick as they want and they'll be greatful for it.
What if the message just says "ahah lolz" or something equally short? How would they approach providing a snippet of such concise prose? ;D
It would say something like "aha" then, wouldn't it? :)
A comment that reads "ahah lolz" is precisely the kind of thing I don't want to have to click over to SEOmoz.org to see.
Thinking along the percentage-of-text line, if the snippet was very short, you'd know that the comment was also very short... I'm not a programmer and I don't know how hard that would be to implement, but it might cut down on the need to read comments or messages that say, "omg cool."
Well damn... if we're gonna bring your programmers into this, then let's do it right. For comments that are shorter than a certain threshold and/or that contain one or more "signal words," SEOmoz should skip the email notification--PLUS--give the commenter an automatic thumbs down for wasting everyone's time. Potential Signal Words: lolz ahah omg optimisation Randy advanced whitehat Clay seo ethics
Automatic ten thumbs down for "Randy", with or without a capital R. That would be easy. I'll get Jeff onto it right away.
What about "first" (unless it's me typing it?)
How about "Can haz clickz plz?"
I would say this is the main reason I do not participate in SEOmoz comment discussions much anymore. I don't have time to come back and check each time a new comment is posted. So I read the blog post, and even if I do post a comment I don't request email notification of replies since they tell me nothing I don't already know. I know people are going to comment after me.
If I was given the opportunity to see comments in notifications it would probably dramatically increase my community participation.
What can I say, I like what I like when I like it. Make it easier to process the information and you will be rewarded.
ditto. I may comment once, but my time is too valuable to be clicking back to the site with every new comment.
I completely agree. I even set up a rule to funnel the annoying comment notices into a folder to be checked later. Sometimes I check it but mostly I just hit the delete button. I'd actually be much more likely to come back to the site if I could see the discussion as it's happening. Not having it in the email has been very bothersome.
When I first started in SEO I was active on DP forum. I missed how they include the comment right in the email so I don't click back to the site just to read "yeah. good work." or some other lame comment. After you do that once or twice you realize that time is better spent doing work. For me, having the comments kept on the site definitely makes me visit the site less. I'm much more likely to give a knee jerk reaction to a comment if I can see it live instead of going back after the fact. Sometimes I leave a post and then go back a week or more later just to be surprised that someone commented or asked me a question.
I think that the only real purpose it serves is to artificially inflate the visitor stats for Rand ;)
But seriously. Please at least give us the option of turning it on for email commenting. I'm too busy to keep coming back for every little comment but I'd love to be able to actually have a discussion if someone leaves a comment on my post or makes an interesting remark otherwise.
Jeremy
I am in exactly the same situation.
For anyone who want's to "Live and Breath Moz" 20 times per day, the comment system currently is ideal, just as the RSS feed of comments is a firehose that could deluge even Robert Scoble.
If the emails contained content, I would be much more inclined to glance at them once in a while.
There is a negative side, if you have content you really need to ensure full CAN SPAM compliance, and you need to work on your email delivery a little more.
To improve it even more, specific replies should contain a different email title, so they are clumped together differently in Gmail.
You could also go to the next stage and allow replies by email.
The thing you need to ask yourself is are you more interested in your Alexa stats, or in active discussions and more content.
Emails that get read can also contain other information, such as recent posts or other hot discussions, and more marketing features.
I think it would be more convenient for SEOmoz blog comments to be displayed in the email notification. We'd still have to visit the site to reply/participate.
Yes, the way it is now you're going to end up with more traffic on the site, but I think the question should be, "what's better for our members?"
More traffic = more value for the owners & potential buyers/investors of SEOmoz.org, but it doesn't mean a better member experience.
In the long term isn't it a better idea to build the best experience possible for your users?
Even for sites where advertising is the sole source of income. A better experience will bring more users. More users should bring more ad revenue.
Unless, of course, you're Twitter. Then you're effed.
I agree that it is about whats better for the user, but that needs to be assessed on a case by case. It is also very dependent on the perceived value of the site. Best experience possible does not always equate to less steps
I see your point. I'm still mulling it over. In another twenty minutes I may be in total disagreement with myself.
No, you're right!
:)
I dont think this is black and white. When balancing what is best for the user versus (does it haave to be versus?) what is best for commercial interest, the forumula is constantly changing and the platform is constantly shifting.
Just for the person to read their message it seems it would be a better user experience to be able to read it right away in their email, but is it? I don't think any website's objective is to merely send out alerts or messages --that's what e-mail is for. We create these communities because they have more of a function than a traditional messaging system and the user signs up for the complete experience. Because of the experience, I do think it is best practice for them to click through and read the message 'in world'.
It does beg the question, if I have a friend's email address, why would I send them a Myspace or Facebook message instead of simply writting them an email --if that is how they are going to read it anyway, right?
Better user experience Vs. Commercial Business Interest?
In most of the cases Commercial Business Interest wins hands down. Why? Unfortunately there exists a something called as Survival. And then there are Profits.
Business is an activity conducted with the intent of Profit.
From business point of view if ‘best experience possible’ means significant less income. NO!
And sometimes ‘best experience possible’ does not translate into ‘better business in long term’. What will happen to television industry if they stopped taking those ‘commercial breaks’?
Wait...so businesses by their nature act to earn profit? What a concept.
I fail to see how in the case of SEOmoz.org a better user experience would result in signifantly less income - since the model here is one of paid membership and not of advertising revenue.
I fully accept the point that for an ad revenue driven web publisher keeping users on site as much as possible is key. But I don't think that's the case for SEOmoz.org.
The reason I pay the monthly membership fee here is because I find the site entertaining, informative and useful. And I expect the infrastructure here to provide me with the best experience possible for my money. That's why I pay. That's why I recommend that others sign up and pay too.
I agree that SEOMoz’s revenue model is Paid membership. But the power of SEOMoz as brand also stems from that fact that they have a powerful active community. I am sure those VC guys also considered it as an important factor while making the decision.
And in the article Jane has clearly expressed her concern about low user activity in long term. To quote her exactly,
Again a brain damaged guy’s principle, Maximum exposure leads to more chances of sale, especially if the product is really good.
One of the important factor, our opinions differ is because you are a Pro member and I am not. Since you are actually paying to use the website you want best possible user experience.
While I being the free member take what I get from here with great appreciation. And to access this blog and YOuMoz if I have to bear little inconvenience I am totally OK with that. Anything is OK as long as I am able to access the content and get to interact with the community.
What Mike said - again.
Business = more important than user? How long do you think your users will hang around. No, Busines = users: pretty simple really.
Twitter should at least try an monetize their Fail Whale page . . . maybe Kwippy would be interested in purchasing that space.
This pretty much sums up the problems with Web 2.0. A very large percentage of users expect everything to be free.
I don't expect it to be free in the case of SEOmoz - which is what I was specifically talking about. In fact, I'm already paying for it. And I'm happy to do so. But as long as I'm paying for it, I do expect the service to be entirely to my benefit, convenience and entertainment.
From a usability standpoint, I've learned the hard way that what I want (or what I think other people want) doesn't mean much, but I personally would love to see the full comment in the email notifications. Yes, it would mean less pageviews, but it wouldn't stop me from reading new posts, engaging in the site, keeping my Pro membership, etc. In other words, metrics might go down, but not in any way that matters.
For sites that go that route, though, I think it's really important to make the email fully functional. It should have a "Reply" link as well as a "Read this Post", "Read this Thread", etc. (whatever is applicable). That way, people can quickly engage from the email. As time goes by, I think email will just be one more delivery vehicle, much like mobile content and RSS - with it's own unqiue experience and form of engagement. Pulling people directly to the browser is going to become less and less relevant as the web evolves, IMO.
BTW, I think a couple of people missed the point that this isn't about whether or not to send email notifications at all, just the type of content they should contain. Receiving email notifications on SEOmoz is completely optional (and easy to shut off).
Fantastic points all around. A full text comment with a "reply" link is actually a great idea (in my opinion!)
Although I hate to use them as an example of good usability, this is something LiveJournal actually does well in its email notifications. Each one has these links:
Plus an embedded form in the email to let you reply directly. Not saying you should copy that verbatim (and the embedded forms can be quirky), but I've found that approach makes it really easy to engage directly from the email, without having to hunt through the entire thread.
I agree too. If you're going to put the content in the email, figure out a way for the email to be fully functional... ability to read & reply.
Damn shows stop my commenting on here. I have so many things to read. But just my 2 cents.
Good post Ms. Jane ... been missing your posts :)
Not sure why so many people got their panties in a wad over the article. :) Like Kate, I would like teasers in email too when I reply to a post. I'm trying to get into the habit of visiting the site daily. :)
I may be weird, but I prefer to read blog posts on the actual website. I'll read the first paragraph or so to see if it interests me, and if it does I'll click thru to read it. Plus, you get to see all of the comments. :)
Great post by the way, Jane!
I think I have to say its not the greatest move to discourage clickthrough to originating page for comment or message, especially if its a community model.
Why? Because you are trying to build the community, and encourage interaction ON the site, why take it out of its element? Keeping it on the site builds the value in the users mind as well, keep them coming and keep remembering the brand and its environment, pretty soon you would be tempted to add comments, and then become a heavy user.
I speak out of experience, I joined Moz way before I started interacting, and gradually I built the confidence to increase that interaction.
And now you cant make me stop. At least I am going to try and be the worlds greatest SEO. ..
I think most people are stalkers in communities, especially at first. As a former silent bob at the moz, I can attest to that.
Definitely, I was a lurker way before I started commenting or writing for youmoz...
I couldn't agree more. There are very few communities people join and begin actively participating right away.
I think what Jane described is a good idea. Had you not clicked through, you may not have seen other discussions going on that you want to add your 2 cents to.
I disagree - see below for why.
Should we start a book on who can get UK's greatest SEO (no Critchlows or evilgreenmonkey allowed)?!
No evilgreenmonkeys allowed? That's a little prejudiced don't you think?
"see below for why"
erm...
"No, you're right!"
Does that answer why?
Aaaand... go.
That wouldn't really work, a true Briton would be much too demure to name themselves as such.
For a plain-text email, I think there's some truth to what you're saying. Ideally, though, an email is like a mobile site or a full RSS feed - eventually, it will have it's own branding, navigation, and options, and be a self-contained experience that strengthens the brand. Email is already capable of this, with a little extra work. Why tie people down to one window into a brand?
Chatted about this on Twitter a bit last night re: e-commerce. I can order a pizza online now, instead of just on the phone or in-person, but why not via email, IM, Twitter, etc. For example:
Speculating, I could tell the system to allow Pizza Hut access to my address and Paypal account, and each location could have it's own handle (maybe by zip code?). We're a few steps away from this, but my broarder point is that users shouldn't be held hostage to a medium.
If this sounds far-fetched, imagine how people first reacted to the Sears-Roebuck catalog, ordering by phone, or ordering online. What if you had told someone in the 70s that they could go on their computer, find virtually any book ever written, and have it sent to them overnight, even gift-wrapped? They'd have thought you were crazy.
Thumbs because Dr. Pete sounds really smart here!
dude... repetive keywrod phrases... bad for domain..
shame...
nothing pisses me off more than when i have those notifications on and am forced to log in to see the comment or message and i'm met with a 'cool' or 'lol'.
ok there are things that piss me off more, but that certainly isn't one of my favorite things to happen.
I was actually stoked when Facebook started putting the full messages into emails. Sometimes my friend's and I will organize after work get togethers via Facebook, and logging into Facebook everytime to check a message doesn't look so great in my open concept environment (and prevents me from getting sidetracked whilst there and wasting potentially productive time ... there is always something in the updates that get my attention...).
Also, a lot of people in different industries aren't allowed to access Facebook at work, so it's like a secret little way to check if you've received any exciting and life altering messages whilst working away.
Initially when Facebook started doing this I wasn't going to the site much, but slowly I started to miss finding out who was in a new relationship or who just got engaged (things that don't show up in your email).
I think Facebook doing this has maintained a way to keep users to keep interacting via Facebook and not resorting back to traditional email (for those people who are banned from using it at work).
great point.
Well, that's a difficult question, I'd say.
On the other hand, your points about keeping people from your site are also valid and I am not sure which solution is better, to be honest.
Still I myself tend to include the text copy in the email template but this still needs more testing...
OK, vaguely sensible answer.
If someone doesn't want to visit your site they won't. Just like not letting then click out won't hold them there.
Now, I could give you a load of stuff about usability and stuff, but frankly I have no frame of reference other than myown preferences.
At the end of the day, the user's needs should come first, even if that means less clicks - why not ask people what they'd like from their emails and then serve them that? Surely if there's one thing that we've all learnt from this web 2.0 malarkey is that it doesn't matter if someone is on your site, so long as they're interacting with your brand.
PS - Please fix it for me (reference for the Brits out there) so that I can turn off ALL emails with one click, rather than having to do each post individually. When I went on holiday I had to keep deleting comment emails to stop my in-box imploding
PPS - all the comments on this post are going to kill my inbox. Irony?
Full comments are used by Facebook because Facebook (and Myspace and several other Open Social platforms) are trying to implement methods of usefulness.
The "best practice" on this is supposed to be providing usefulness to those using it without requiring a user to click through to a site to read a comment.
Facebooks numbers indicate that those who provide full comments via email (or news feed) have a better experience. So that is why they do it. Or at least that is what they (Facebook and Myspace) have told me. Google pushes it too. They all say, hey, one should not have to click back through to interact.
These platforms have massive amounts of data, and that is what they are doing and evangilising. Worth pondering.
That is great for facebook and myspace but at the same time, can a much smaller site that needs the face time with their members afford the potential loss of traffic?
FB and MS have a ton of interactivity to offer their users aside from the comments. Other sites don't have that.
I see both sides of this coin, but I think the majority of smaller sites would get better results from leaving it out until they hit FB status.
This post has made me think quite a bit. I can see your argument, but I'm not sure it's obvious that having full comments in emails would decrease interaction. It would decrease pageviews (90% sure) but not necessarily propensity to comment. A few counter-points:
It'd make an interesting test. Give some people full comments and keep others how they are and see if you get a measurable change to pageviews and / or interactions off either group.
This is bullshit.
It's a sacrifice of customer orientation in favor of ephemeral advertising displays by the cost of customer satisfaction.
I often unsubscribe from feeds when I see they serve partial content instead of full so they they can serve me bullshit advertising - because I value my time way more then I value anything that anyone has ever written. And I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
If you really want to show advertising - show it in the e-mail. I will still not click it right now, but at least you will keep a happy customer that might potentially click it in the future.
actually MOST advertising (in email) will NOT pass MOST spam filters...
so unless you can stop spam.. then it is what it is.. and not bullshXX..
I think there's a lot of hidden value in catering to your users as much as possible. Make things convenient for them, interact on their terms, and they will have a more positive experience with your brand. Sure, they may not be getting as many ad impressions in the short term, but through regular, positive interaction with your brand in a familiar setting, they will remain loyal, enthusiastic users over the long term.
In that vein, there are plenty of ways to drive users back to your website even while providing full content through email. For example, Facebook could provide several calls to action, like, "Click here to delete this message," or, "See what else FRIEND'S NAME has been up to." Give users all that they want, and then some; all it takes is a little creativity.
I read this whole post on Sage and then came to the site because I wanted to point out that if someone has something to say about something they will make the effort to do so. For SEOmoz, this is an ideal setup due to the lack of advertising and the "intelligence" of the conversation . . . for Facebook, not so much. Those types of sites should go the snippet route IMHO.
I never said that people wouldn't make the effort to click through if they had something to say. Rather, it decreases the likelihood that any given person will visit the site.
I read this post in my feed reader, and clicked through to the article because I found it especially interesting and I wanted to read the comments. usually I don't click thorough.
Something else to consider:
I checked the check box to Email me when new comments are posted.
An hour later i check my email and I have 10 new messages for each comment.
That is annoying. Perhaps, consider only emailing once per topic until the user click thorough.
This is an issue I am currently dealing with on my forum where members create a new topic and don't subscribe to the topic so they are completely unaware that there has been numerous responses to their post
Yet if I send an email for each post they may end up with 10 emails in their inbox, mark them as spam and my domain is now blacklisted.
This is why I use Gmail: it groups the messages so that multiple emails from the same address on the same subject are grouped together in one message.
And when the cloud collapses?
;)
I've always wondered why FB did that. I thought it to be ironic that a site dependant on interaction within their network would inadvertantly discourage users to interact.
On the flip side, I've seen notifications without the message that did the same thing. If you have to log in to review the message, either put the login info in the email, embed it in the link, or find some other way to remove the hurdle. Personally, I'm a member of too many communities to remember every. single. login. If I have to dig for my info before I see the message, I'll typically save it for later then forget eventually about it.
With regards to emailing exerpts; I would stay away from that too. While I would absolutely consider all 400 of my FB friends near and dear to my heart... there are some that I'd probably not click through to finish reading what they had to say. But if I click through, notice its from someone I would rather not deal with at the moment, heck, I'm already in so I might as well check out my alerts, friend requests, and see what other peeps are up to.
What I find a little fustrating in seomoz email notifications is that it does tells me when some one comments on post, but there is no way for me to know wen some one posts a reply to MY comment thread. Actually, I would prefer using my limited time managing my own thread instead of other 100 comments. So I have to check each time if the comment is posted to my thread or some else's.
Secondly, there should also notificaitons, when I am thumbed up or downed and also if possible the name of the devil/angel so that I can pay back :)
Something I hadn't thought of: the "edit" button on your comments would be rendered semi-useless if notifications included comment text. Worth considering.
Jane, I don't doubt that this is an excellent post and I'll come back & add a comment once I've read it properly. But first I thought that I ought to give you a free translation (seeing as English isn't quite as universal as we might think):
Translates as:
Just thought that you ought to know...
um Ciaran posting at 2.45 on Friday night, I am not surprised that is the result. Lay off the happy juice...
Yes, but the thing is that Stephen could be posting at 11 on a Sunday morning, from the Church pew and he'd still need monitoring.
(In case it wasn't clear the translation was meant to be Stephen, not me...
Sorry, I can't be bothered to read all comments so maybe this was already said. Actually, you're lucky I bothered to come here from my comfy RSS feed so there :P
So here's my point...Don't fight the feed. There are many tools that add ads to feeds and even some that add "related posts" which can drive traffic to your site without "wasting" your readers time. They get the full story/comment and a tempting little link (or two) to follow if they have the time. Now that I think about it, my comment notices don't include either a link or ad. I need to fix that, even it's only a link to one of my other sites.
P.S. I will eventually read all comments, I just need to catch up elsewhere first.
I guess I am not the only one to be pumped about this post.
First, Thanks to Jane. Obviously you have hit a nerve.
I am one of those SEOmoz geeks that has one tab open all the time. Yes, I am always dumping copious amounts of "Someone has commented" emails. (heaven forbid I should miss a couple days).
I like some of the suggestions put forth by the mozers.
I would be in favor of a modification to include part of the comment, a designation or option of following just the comments on my string would be cool. However I don't mind clicking over to the website.
I am just intrigued wondering if I can leverage some of this for my business related sites rather that just the social.
maybe this has been said already but i only skimmed the comments. (96 comments to read through on a monday morning is too much. i read the post in my rss reader on friday but just now decided to come read comments - okay not really, i'm just late.) :-p
anyway...i'd like to have the option to get a notification if someone replied to my comment, not all new comments. i think that would encourage more participation from those who are too busy/lazy to come back and read every new comment posted.
right now i don't use the email notification. i'll say i'm in the too busy group rather than too lazy. if i had commented first! here, i'd now have nearly 100 emails to delete.
I don't know that visitors/pageviews is as reliable a metric here as bounce, time on site, depth of visit, etc. Bringing in a flood of people (many of whom might simply abandon as soon as they see the comment/message) is good, but bringing through a smaller number of people using the site is even better.
In that case, the message or comment they're receiving in their inbox is a call to action.
There are times when a web site doesn't want to even notify the user at all. For example my son signed up for some online game using my credit card. I am getting billed 3.95 per month and sure would like an email notification with a link to click on to stop the billing. Instead I am going to have to track down the phone number and his user id that he probably doesn't remember and it will take way too long. This is an example of where the business model is best served by not having notifications even through the customer would be happier with them.
For other businesses notifications are good to remind the customer that you exist and provide benefit to the customer. Delivering full content to best serve the customer benefits the business even through it would be nice if the customer logged in and did more with the site. Keeping them as a happy customer is the primary goal even though I can't see what they are doing with the content that was emailed. But they may not need content on a daily basis. For some businesses weekly or even monthly may be enough.
I think a lot of people would probably not think about the traffic on site when deciding these things. It makes sense though that including everything in a email would cut your traffic some. However, I believe there is possibly a traffic increase due to the convience of having emails full of info sent to you. People could feel the site is more useful and therefore use the site more in the long run.
Just send us the entire message....
Mostly, I don't even know whether it's a relevant conversation or not. On most threads, I usually never bother to come check as to who has written what.
If I read the message in email, I will be a more qualified visitor as I have come to participate in the discussion.
I'd second that. One of the reasons I don't get email notifications anymore is that those are actually replies to the post - not to my single post.
The other is that there is no content in the post. I don't need a email pinging me every ten minutes to know that any seomoz post will collect comments like a pot of honey will attract flies in the 48hours after going live.If I am going to have you interrupt me it better be worthy my time and attention.
I actually think is a great idea that Facebook lets me read the message in my inbox. FB might get less page views in the short term but they do increase the value of my interaction with them making me more likely to use their services and stay with them for the long term. That actually makes for more page views.
Jane's RSS analogy is a great example of this: Greader/bloglines, etcetera get the page views and seomoz gets fewer page views for each post. On the other hand many of these people would not be reading and linking seomoz on the first place if they didn't have a (full) feed.
This makes lots of sense Rajat. Moreover, this will improve the visitor loyality. I have very limited time and if a site forces me to come again just because it considers me more like a traffic than a user, I obviously wont be so much pleased.
I would be more loyal to a website that values my time, given that it's not semoz which is so irreplaceable..
I agree that having an email notification is probably the better bet rather than having the full text comment come via email. This happened to me today, I received an email message from a friend on Flickr, I read it in my email (which is no bout nice) but since I am so busy today and have alot on my plate have yet to visit Flickr to check my account or possibly add a new picture.
Like rishil said you are trying to promote and build your community ON the site, why take it out of its element.
Jane,
referring to your original post, I completely agree with you.
and so does the state of california.. officially (ask me on twitter..for more detail..)
and IF you actually want comments pertaining to SEOMoz and this subject.. as a pro member i think you guys/girls do just fine...
RSS directs me to the blog.. if i have more time, i can scope out youmoz.. if someone wants my attention they priv msg me and i get an email.
the occaisional, "forward the cool deal on bitchin memeberships benefits of SEOMoz to your friends" email are not intrusive nor too high frequency to be annoying at all..
=)
I think that not providing the whole message is a great marketing technique. It increases your return traffic and leads people to the website and encourages them to spend more time exploring it.
I really prefer to read it all on my e-mail, simple and faster.
But is a really good tactic to bring people to a website.
There are some super good points throughout this post. I do prefer content in an email, yet I also see the value of visiting the site and community. A snippet with a reply link that @dr_pete had is great.
I am bothered, however, that Jane's post got a thumbs down. Jane did an awesome job putting together the reasoning. She's participated in the discussion and is open to evaluating alternatives. THUMBS UP! It's as if the thumbs down is a way of saying, "I don't like the way you do it, SEOmoz." Isn't that what comments and participation is about?
Nice post. I will say that I like to receive my messages in an email because of all the time it saves me but it really does keep you from visiting the site. I like your idea of only including a snippet of the content. I think I'm going to try that.
Great point.
I did wonder why SEOmoz runs a full text RSS instead of excerpt. Any insight into why that decision was made?
I find that my RSS vrs On Page reading preference is highly influenced by the quality of the layout / typography of the blog. Good Example being www.betterlivingthroughdesign.com. I will always hit the page up because it is pleasing and a large part of the "experience" of going to the blog.
Test
EDIT: the "test" above was sent via Opera Mini on my BlackBerry--I couldn't easily comment on or thumb stuff on SEOmoz until I downloaded that browswer (just now) so I thought I'd... well... test it!
Anyway, here's my real reply: I agree about the experience of going to the blog. That's why we spend time on UI, design, etc. Including a lot of information in email notifications could be seen as a test of a site's aesthetics and usability: if people still click through, you're doing something right.
Please say that just because you've downloaded mini Opera you're not going to ignore creating a mobile friendly Moz? Skip to cntent pls..
I hate receiving things like that in email. Every social or professional site I'm on, I never click on the email notificatin button. It's just pure spam to me. I like the surprise of checking in and seeing new updates.
If you go on to the site anyway, why not just turn off the email notifications, Jane? After all, everything's already nicely laid out in the notifications section of FB anyway.
Because, like most instant-gratification-obsessed web geeks, I like to know straight away when something happens.
Me too.
Ditto for me!
Me too! Oh wait. I started it.
But I'm glad I'm not the only person who activates as many things as possible to ensure I hear about new information as quickly as possible!
I agree - no more emails even with full text. I get way way too much email for work and it is all things that I have to deal with. Sites like seomoz are my fun and relaxation time that happens to also benefit my work so I am happy to spend the time on the site and enjoy the site as it is online. If I comment on something and want to see if others have commented after I just come back - nice way to procrastinate when I have a task that I don't want to do so I go check seomoz and other blogs.
I've been wondering about this exact question for quite a while. People who read a blogs posts on a rss reader are not given the oppurtunity to read or see any ads. Not a good thing.
But I'm not sure if there really is a way to stop the practice. I read seomoz on a feed reader myself. Only click through to leave a comment or when I'm looking to find someone to do some work for me. Which by the way is an interesting question. to itself. Does anybody, I mean anybody, answer emails about building a custom WP theme?
Yes, this strategy works.
Whenever i receive an email where i know what the message is then i don't feel like to get into the site right away but if i don't see it then that drives me to the website.
I even don't know why seoMOZ RSS is the complete post/article instead of the short one.
Now since you have opened up this subject and made me think about it, I think the ‘new comment’ email warning is 95% useless if you are not going to add the comment text in the email. Especially for members who are really active commenters.
Why? Because SEOMoz is so popular that it almost floods your mail box. My first response was that I created a filter and made sure that all the seomoz emails skip the inbox and are directly delivered to delivered to SEOMoz folder.
But now I have one more problem? If there are 20 new comments since my last visit to article, I have 2 ways to tackle with the situation.
1. I have to click 20 times to be taken to exact location of the comment
or
2. Sort the comments according to subjects (this kind of sorting is available in Yahoo mail, one thing Gmail guys *gasp* missed) and click only on the first comment for every article. After I am taken to SEOMoz page, first thing I do is to login in my account. Since once you log in, SEOMoz highlights new comments in light blue. (Kudos SEOMoz developer team! A very well thought feature!) So I just quickly scroll through the comments and read the ones in light blue.
But in both the cases I have to delete all those new comment notification emails. (Select All -> Delete.)
Why I call them 95% useless, because if you are not giving me the text of the comment, I just need to know there have been comments since my last visit to the post. Why I should be told the same thing 20 times a day? Yes one thing must give you guys is that you tell the name of the commenter in the email. So if it is somebody I regularly interact with then I will be more temped to go and check the comments. [So I guess you should get avalanche of visits as soon as you send notification emails like Pritam Barhate has commented… ;-) ]
So does this mean that you should be forced to include the comment in the email. Absolutely not. You guys run the show. And you know what’s best for long term survival and prosperity of SEOMoz. And in any case your content, community (and not to mention all those pretty ladies) are so good, that at least I will come back here even if you started offering sparkling blue text on black background. Yes content is the King!
And one note to Jane,
Keeping People Away From Your Website: A Beginner's Guide
I fail to see how that title adequately describes the content of the article. I should thumb you down for that. But seriously am I going to Thumb down a pretty lady like you ever? Thumbs up for opening such a great discussion!
Isn't that exactly what Gmail does? If 17 people comment on a post, I get one email with 17 parts in Gmail. I only have to click the first link and look at the blue comments.
Each to their own. And we request that members don't engage in the "pretty lady"-type comments, please.
Ok point accepted. Sincerely sorry for that.
@Jane Copland - I'm glad you brought up the "blue comments" this is one of my favorite parts of SEOmoz AND the only reason I login almost every time I come to the site. And on your reply to my other comment: "it decreases the likelihood that any given person will visit the site." I totally agree with the your assessment, I just don't think that's necessarily a bad thing for the SEOmoz Blog(professional, highly specific, not Ad driven, and contributing to the increased likelyhood of converting a PRO membership).
It is bad for Facebook(Social, Ad Driven Revenue Model, and monetarily valuable only when a person visits the site).
Concerning your Gmail remark. Not only will it let you stack emails, but you can filter into subfolders really well. For instance myspace, okc, facebook, seomoz each have there own filter that skips my inbox. So I have a little (1) letting me know to check it.
<3 gmail.
Yes, good point. I certainly don't use all of Gmail's features as well as I could. The filtering is one I should use more...
yeah, thumbs down for the "pretty lady" quip.
I concur. I was pretty stoked to see you write that Jane!
Here's a great way to strip your arguments of any merit what so ever: be blatantly sexist in a public conversation.
Yes a lesson learned the hard way.
OK, I normally don't leave this sort of comment, but why the down-thumbs? Nothing said here that wasn't said elsewhere (and was actually expressed more coherently here than in other commets)
*Wishing I could give more than 1 thumb up*
Obviously I skim read the comment and missed the 'pretty-lady' bit - my bad!