If your process chart looks like this, prepare for complete failure.
Guest blogging is not a strategy, and it’s not a generic solution that can be applied to every client or every part of your site. Guest posts can be an effective supplemental tactic to a fully-formed strategy, but giving this tactic center stage is a recipe for frustration and inevitable defeat.
The Guest Blog Bubble
On-page factors don’t pack the same punch they once did. Search engines have become much better at both compensating for imperfect site optimization and ignoring on-page tricks. Our collective focus began shifting towards off-page factors long ago; it’s all about those tender, juicy links.
There are as many ways to get links as there are people and pages, but in the aftermath of Penguin, guest articles are slowly becoming an industry default. I fear that the trend is driven by a lack of creativity, augmented by fear of failure, and then reinforced by poor communication.
I raised the issue of guest posting to someone who has done a lot of it - Distilled's head of Outreach, Adria Saracino:
"Guest posting is safe" ... "We're SEOs. We're metric driven. We like being able to see this consistent, targeted movement. Guest posting plays to our tactical strengths. And once we see it working once, we just keep doing it because it's safe. We fall into a routine of guest posting and the blinders slowly form over time, stifling innovation and big wins.
Guest posting in most cases isn't going to bring you direct traffic or conversions, it's not a "branding" play. There is usually no other benefit other than metric movement, and while it's short-sighted, it's also the easiest to defend to the higher-ups. So we become slaves to a redundant process rather than testing innovative ideas. I may even be so bold as to say guest posting is what will mark a slow death to the fast-paced innovation our industry is known for when it comes to link building."
Diminishing Returns at Best
Guest blog posts, all by themselves, do increase rankings. That does not necessarily mean they are worth doing.
It’s easy to forget about opportunity cost as an SEO when we have had past success with a given tactic. Far too often, we see results, and continue doing it as long as we possibly can. The value of an activity like guest posting is only worth doing if there’s nothing better we could be doing with our time.
Once more, just because something works does not mean we should be doing it – unless it is the best path to the fastest or most enduring results. Guest posting (by itself) is essentially never the best activity for an SEO, due primarily to the diminishing returns seen in long-term guest blogging campaigns.
Guest blogging’s strength is that you can launch immediately, avoiding that lonely feeling of blog posts that no one comments on. However, the guest-blog-only strategy has two fatal weaknesses: 1) there is an obviously fixed ratio of one linking domain per article placed, and 2) you reach rapidly diminishing returns. Furthermore, ideal blogs are a finite resource, and you can either lower your standards or post again on a good blog. Neither option is necessarily bad, but both have diminishing returns.
A pure content strategy can be frustrating simply because it takes so long to get rolling. I’ll be honest: I abandoned both a commercial and a philosophy blog in a past life because I got sick of writing posts no one read. But what if I had combined great content with other tactics?
What do I mean by a comprehensive strategy? I’m sure you remember this guy:
From Inbound Marketing is Taking Off by Rand Fishkin
With great content, your guest posts will be more effective. So will your email marketing campaigns, paid search traffic, and referral traffic. We can think of content as a multiplier that adds to almost any other marketing tactic.
The multiplier effect of amazing content happens two ways with guest posting (or any other channel, really). First, bloggers will be more likely to accept posts and talk about/to you if your target site has its own credible content. Second, users from the host blog will share and re-share your content if your site offers something they can be excited about.
Site Owner Fatigue
Link-based diminishing returns aside, the guest blogging bubble weakens further as site owners are continually poked and prodded by requests from acquaintances and strangers to allow them to guest post. Everyone is getting tired of the constant requests, especially when the requests are so damn horrible. I think Geraldine’s recent post on her travel blog captures that well:
“Hello! I am interested in writing a high-quality guest post for your site! All I require is two contextual links placed within the post.”
You know that song from the sixties that starts with “No-no no no no no no-no-no no?” That is now playing in my head. Because no.
Even if you actually read these blogs and really want to contribute something great, other people are making all but the most patient blog owners weary with their piles of requests.
What's Next?
Where are we headed, and what should we do next? SEO is not dying, and linkbuilding is not dead. I'm actually more optimistic than ever about the direction the industry is moving in. We're generally moving towards sustainability and making recommendations that are going to have a far bigger impact than raising the rankings for a couple tracked keywords.
Penalties: Unlikely for Most
It seems highly unlikely that Google will penalize guest posts just because they are guest posts. It’s a perfectly legitimate strategy – at least, when it is legitimate. Just consider that a ton of links from spammy sites publishing poorly-written content is more of a liability than a benefit. I’m not arguing that Google will bring the hammer down on guest blog posts, but risk certainly rises as quality declines.
Communicate and Fix Misconceptions
Some clients and managers are under the impression that it’s your job to vanish into the nether, and return bearing all the links they will ever need to rank for their broadest pet phrase. They're probably in the wrong; that's not how SEO works anymore. It’s easy to blame the people who have the wrong ideas, but whose fault is it when points of contact have these mistaken expectations?
It’s our fault.
We know SEO. Presumably that’s what we're taking checks for. We understand the value of content. Regardless of how someone picked up their mistaken assumptions - and this is worth looking into - it's up to us to correct misconceptions.
We often get cornered into rote guest blogging when expected to solve their problems without interaction or support. Failure to communicate this fact; however, is not sufficient reason enough to head face first into the inevitable plateau of diminishing returns. For more on how to encourage cooperation, read Hannah's post on solving people problems. She doesn't use the phrase "managing expectations" even once, I promise.
Make Content a Pre-Requisite
I am not telling you to publish and wait. Links matter – that’s obvious. You can’t sit and wait, hoping that some white knight blogger is going to come along and raise your precious content out of obscurity.
Think of your site as a retail store selling widgets. You can perform your essential business function - selling widgets - out of an empty warehouse, but we know that the appearance, furnishing, ambiance, and customer service all matter. You probably wouldn't worry about posting billboards and local ads all over town until your retail space made customers comfortable. You want them to tell their friends and come back, so you get your store in order first.
Websites are no different in this regard. To make a potential customer feel comfortable, you need compelling design, good navigation, and good content. You want users to have a great experience - whether consuming your content or making purchases - so that they will tell others (hint: sometimes via links) and come back. If you want to invest in greater visibility, get your site in order and stop trying send people to the questionable warehouses of the Internet.
THEN Explore All the Channels
There's really nothing magic about the white-hat linkbuilding process. From the users and bloggers' perspective, it looks like this:
Sharing leads in turn to more awareness, and the circle of quality continues. In a recent webinar between Rand and Dharmesh at Hubspot, paid advertising was described as "renting attention." This is true, but until you have the free sort of attention, paying for it can be a worthy way of getting the process above started. Try running display ads to content. Try bidding on low-competition informational keywords that you have great content to match. Run PR campaigns to make people aware of the most interesting part of your business. And yes, do some well-thought guest posting to raise awareness of your content. Ann Smarty has a lot of great guidance on doing guest blogging the right way.
I've singled out guest posting intentionally because its prevalance and average quality indicate that we're losing sight of goals and strategy. Much of what I've said, though, could apply to any channel. Pick a channel from the graphic above, and it's not hard to see you how having a great user experience with great content can make that tactic more financially beneficial.
There is real danger in getting myopic tunnel vision about a link or two in a post. We cheat ourselves out of compounding and self-perpetuating benefits when we fail to lay the groundwork. We’re at risk of teaching a generation of bloggers that SEOs are just spammers out to trick bloggers. We’re at risk of teaching new SEOs that linkbuilding for linkbuilding’s sake is something beside foolish and short-sighted.
I understand the fear involved with taking a bet on the difficult links. It’s not easy to tell someone that their content isn’t cutting it, and it’s even harder to provide a clear vision and map to get there. Connecting the dots between strategy and tactics is mentally exhausting, but you don’t need to get it perfect right away. And please, let's stop with the crapstorm of throwing guest posts wherever we can.
Carson, I love that you had the guts to say what needed to be said - guest posting is being overdone. I think you said it very eloquently, as guest posting can still be useful in some instances and is a good supplement to a more holistic link building strategy. It makes me sad that so many people will tear down an industry peer solely over semantics.
I'm going to publish this list I sent you when you "interviewed" me, as I noticed it didn't make it into the post but I think would be helpful for those wanting a more specific breakdown of the pros/cons of guest posting, so here it is:
For businesses, guest posting has a very particular value set:
Guest blogging will not in most cases:
And I think this part highlights some questions to ask yourself to determine if guest posting is the best use of your business' time:
What are the goals? - if it's ranking movements, guest posting can be effective, especially if you don't need many links to rank. But if you're looking for specific direct conversions, guest posting isn't going to do anything.
How will this be measured? - if you are trying to measure direct click throughs or email signups from a promo, guest posting isn't going to get you that. The focus is on the article, not your little link thrown into the article. Unless the article is more of a press announcement (which bloggers balk at), don't bother.
What kind of ROI am I looking for? - Are there other types of link building tactics I can do that will be a better use of my time. If you don't have writers and it's one guy having to manage the whole process, and he's a slow writer to begin with, having him do guest posting probably won't be the most effective use of time.
What resources do I have available? - Similar to the above example, if you don't have resources for editorial creation, why would you waste time doing this?
Overall, well played. I wish I had written this - thanks for putting your neck out there, as I appreciate this is a very controversial topic!
Thanks, Adria, for those awesome additions. I would have loved to incorporate more of these, but I wanted to leave you room to leave the best comment ever. You really should write another post about this - I may have taken a swing at lazy guest posting, but I can tell it's going to take a bit more effort to convince people.
Great comment Adria, to be honest, I don't think the post is as clear as your comments. The title is little misleading and I think what most people take from the article is muddied by the title, which is a lot more controversial than the actual post.
Guest posting isn't a strategy, it's a tactic. If the title was more inline with that, I don't think the comments would have been so negative.
That as may be - but since when was it written in stone that the title of a post had to summarise the key message contained within?
If we're going to start criticising writers for using figurative language and rhetoric for dramatic effect, while extrapolating meaning from out of context sound bites...then we're heading down a very strange and unsavoury road.
I don't mean to sound harsh - but if you're not going to read a post all the way through, should people really make a comment about the content from a place of ignorance?
Edit not working on iPad so forgive the spelling mistakes.
Sorry but I read the post. You seem to be suggesting throughout your comments that anyone who doesnt agree with this is wrong. So, if a post is written by your colleague it should be thumbed up and everyone should say how awesome it is.
I also don't mean to be harsh but it seems you didn't read my comment. I agree with the core point but the post in of itself doesn't do a great job of getting this across. I was simply sharing an opinion on why I felt this was and why it's getting a negative response. I would suggest calling people ignorant because there opinions differ to yours a stranger path to go down.
I was merely trying to big Adria up for such a great comment and give some constructive feedback as well. I enjoyed the post and agreed with the point the author was trying to make.
But hey, in future ill just say everything is awesome and be done with it.
Lastly - dramatic effect is fine, but the title should have some relevance to the content or else we would just be resorting to tabloid jounlism, where all we want are the clicks.
I certainly don't feel your comment was ignorant; this little comment thread was about why people seem confused, and not about your comment in particular. That is, I took Phil's comment to mean that those responding without reading the post - not you - are coming from a position of ignorance.
I actually didn't think the (final) title was sensational or misleading at all. "Enough is enough" - "we're doing too much of this." I'm baffled as to why people think this was misleading.
The title reads "Guest Blogging - Enough is Enough" - I think it's pretty easy to read that and think its a post about blog posting being a waste of time.
Anyhow - it's getting lots of shares and comments, in the end that's not a bad result :)
Thanks so much for your kind words on my comment! Carson - you're right - I am so happy you didn't go with the original blog post title I was trying to get you to put - now that was fucking sensational ;)
Sorry, I think it comes across as such because of how the comments are threaded, but I wasn't insinuating that you hadn't read the post. It's quite clear however that there are comments on this thread attacking a complete straw-man almost irrelevant to the actual conclusions Carson made.
I do however take issue with the idea that a posts title should summarise it's overall theme, as I think it breeds lazy reading. If individuals (not you, but just generally) are going to take conclusions off the back of a title without context or further research, then I'm not sure we can blame the writer for that.
ok cool, well thanks for the reply. The post has certainly got people commenting, good or bad - discussion is always a positive
Well done Carson, you might have managed to find more people to disagree with things you didn't say than I did last week!
It's fine to disagree with Carson here, but make sure you are disagreeing with something he actually said. He didn't say guest posts were a bad idea, he said guest blogging isn't a strategy and in my opinion he's 100% right.
I say that as someone who has both guest posted (right here on this very site) and recommended guest posting to friends, colleagues and business partners. If you want to argue with the man, read the post carefully first.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Its astonishing how many people are disagreeing / arguing with statements Carson did not even make.
You should create a graphical demonstration of the responses this article receives. First, measure how far down the article Carson actually backs up the idea that guest posting is legit. Then tally the +/- comments to see how many people did not read past line [x]. The simple fact is that guest blogging will never go away simply due to the amount of new users (publishers) that the Internet receives on a daily basis. Everyone wants to talk to the world and share their opinions or ideas. Information will continue to flow.
WOW its Will on the rescue, lol just kidding. But I am also thinking the same I really not found a single reason why so many mozzers get confused with Carson. He had written very simple and straight article with some really fabulous thoughts.This was the kind of the post which deserved to be ranked in the Popular Post of the Moz.But unfortunately due to some unexpected reactions and misunderstandings this article will not reach its deserved place in Top 10 of Moz.
Well apart from all the comments and shocking dislikes (Thumbs down) Carson you still rocked it.
The title doesn't necessarily help:
Guest Blogging - Enough is Enough
I'd say, if something is misunderstood many times, a good way out is probably to take it as feedback instead of trying to convince everyone they were wrong :)
I don't say the article is wrong or the points are not valid but again, I guess the title should have been more straightforward
Similarly for my post last week? I'd love feedback on how to make that clearer...
I don't think you could have been any more precise than you were, Will. Ann is right that I could certainly have made a better title. It is just really, really really frustrating that the conversation barely got past complaints about the title. I'll take it as a lesson to be more careful, as it can be an emotional trigger for some people.
The truth is, most people do only read the title to form the impression and all that follows can't change the initial impression.
That's why we say titles are so important :)
It seems like this extends to a broader issue - that we want one answer to every problem. When one tactic we've pounded into the dirt fails (like blog commenting), we rush to another tactic and use that exclusively. Unfortunately, guest blogging is one of those tactics right now. It misses the entire point that any single-tactic approach is doomed in the long-term. Guest blogging can certainly be a valuable piece of the puzzle, to a point, but as soon as you turn it into an assembly line operation and forego all other forms of link-building and promotion, you're setting yourself up for problems.
Great post. Guest posting is the darling of SEO right now and is a very legitimate tactic.
Lets no be too tough on us SEOs - we are evolving from link spammers to content strategists. This will take time and is not for the faint hearted.
You mean link spammers to content spammers.
Well said, Carson. I think people are relying on guest blogging a bit too much, and there's always risk in that. Reminds me of my rant post pointing out that guest blogging is getting lazier and spammier, with more and more SEOs (and black hat SEOs) jumping on the bandwagon,* which will effectively and eventually devalue and diminish it - maybe not entirely, but it'll certainly lose its golden shine and become 'just another tactic' rather than 'THE tactic.'
* I shouldn't put the whole focus/blame on SEOs, either. Just as webmasters got wise to charging for links (and now they're even getting wise to charging for the removal of links!), some blog owners are charging to even publish material. This aligns with your comment that blog owners are drowning in guest blog post requests - after all, if you're getting so much interest, why publish for free when you can charge (which might whittle down the list of applicants as well)? Of course, doing this will inevitably reduce quality as well, as there's less incentive to publish something great for free, and possibly more incentive to publish something mediocre but profit from it. It's a real shame, but there are those who are that way inclined, unfortunately...
It's a real shame. As you argue, guest blogging shouldn't be the main tactic, but one of a number of tactics. It's a bad idea to lean too heavily on one tactic - even if that tactic is white hat.
Hi Steve,
I'm sorry I missed your post, but I enjoyed reading it. Well said, and thanks for adding your thoughts.
Steve that was superb comment and your article is more than that.100% worth to read it.
Thanks to share it.
So, the graphs are just based on made up data to support your premise?
I actually agree with the entire post. Guest posting is being abused, and I would not be surprised if Google does something about it.
..but how did those graphs come about ?
Thanks; those graphs are illustrating a point visually - they're based on totally fake data :) Or rather, they are conceptual and based on everything else in the post plus experience.
I think he was just trying to illustrate how he thought that the value worked over time. He was just using them as a tool to quickly show how he felt it changed over time.
I disagree with the sentiment that "Guest blogging is not a strategy." This Youmoz post, for example, is an example of "guest blogging." It contains a link to distilled. I'll bet that guest blogging is a strategy employed by distilled to help accomplish some worthy goal or objective.
By definition a strategy is essentially a thoughtfully constructed plan or action employed to achieve an objective, result, or goal. Here's a good writeup of how goals/objectives and strategies relate to each other as well as to missions and visions. If you ever set goals, this can be valuable to understand: https://www.aef.com/industry/careers/memos/8022
So yes, guest blogging is a strategy. And I would argue that it's a strategy used by the author who is claiming. I also think it will be easy for Google to eventually devalue the links contained in many guest posts, including ones like this. It would be fairly easy for a search bot to discover the "bio" section at the end of the article, find the link in it, and devalue it. The best guest posts (for link building) are the ones where your link appears within the context of the article. Those are the types of guest posts Google might have a difficult time devaluing.
"This Youmoz post, for example, is an example of "guest blogging." It contains a link to distilled. I'll bet that guest blogging is a strategy employed by distilled to help accomplish some worthy goal or objective."
LOL did anyone else not realize this? Ummm, hypocrisy?
The very next sentence: "Guest posts can be an effective supplemental tactic to a fully-formed strategy." I probably should have added "effective strategy" to avoid arguing over every word.
The article makes it pretty clear that I'm discouraging guest blogging all by itself.
I don't think anyone who read the whole post would have been confused that Carson is actually recommending guest posting.
P.S. This is not a YOUmoz post. You can tell by the box at the top. (Though perhaps it could be classified as a guest post.)
You're right Jeff! I was just about jump in and say that this isn't a YouMoz post. Carson is one of our main blog authors, lucky for us! :)
whoops! my mistake Jen! sooo sorry. I guess I saw the disclaimer at the top saying essentially "he's not one of us" coupled with the bio at the bottom saying Carson is an SEO consultant at Distilled rather than a "regular blog author" kind of screamed "guest post" to me and I mistakenly extended that to youmoz.
I wasn't trying to indicate that this post is a hypocrisy or even try to nitpick words. I was simply saying that guest blogging IS a viable strategy.
Yeah, I agree with you. And it's an easy mistake to make -- I made it many times before I figured out what was going on.
I think that a lot of the controversy that this post is creating is due to Carson's somewhat sensational title and first paragraph. It's throwing a lot of people off. Because obviously he's recommending it as a viable strategy too... he just says "Guest blogging is not a strategy" right up front. But while you and I might consider a "strategy" as an internet marketing activity, it seems he's defining it as the overall marketing plan.
So it definitely is a good internet marketing activity, but it's not good when used as the overall marketing plan. That's how I'm making sense of all this.
Hi! No worries about the YouMoz stuff. So I don't think the intention of his post is to say it's not a viable strategy at all. He's saying that it should be a PART OF the overall strategy. :)
Is there a need to tell people not to "just guest post"? I mean you can just say that seo is a subject that requires a variety of link building and promotional strategies. Why pick on guest posting. How can Google have an issue with something that promotes good content? Crap content is not accepted by authority sites. Problem solved. Links from weak blogs are themselves weak links anyway. Problem solved. If you have 15 authority blogs within the industry you are promoting in, interested in your information, that is what Google is getting at us all to do lol.Next we will all stay in bed under the duvets. Lol, Articles don't rank, press releases don't work, only they do, if they are quality, because quality sites will pick them up. It isn't rocket science. I think I need to write a guest post here lol.
I may be poking to argue over semantics here, rather than concepts - but nonetheless, i would contend that "guest blogging" is not a strategy.
'Guest blogging" isn't a strategy, as to even get close to being actionable, there are a great many unknowns that need to be clarified - namely: Blog where? About what? To what audience? For what ends?
If you take the approach "i'm going to do some guest blogging" and then try to work out what you blog about and who you outreach to as an afterthought, it's invariably going to be a relatively unsuccessful campaign.
In my view, guest blogging is tactic amongst a wider strategy of donating content to others and directly engaging with specific communities.
To me guest posting still works as long as real visitors have an easy access to it. You cannot expect to derive value from a post in a blog that hardly gets any visitors. The points you mentioned is justified. Overdoing anything is a spam, but I am sure people don't have much alternatives to it. Do you have? If, yes please let me know a couple of those. Anything you do with content or content marketing has to be legitimate.
What we can do in this regard -
1. Write a post that helps readers in true means, no matter it is 300 words of post or 1000 words of content
2. Avoid getting links from the body content unless the blog have a provision for author bio
3. Include infographics to your posts, make it visually appealing. Google loves content, if it interests readers
4. Minimize the number of posts in month , say not more than 5 or 7 good posts
5. Linking is not mandatory , we can also promote a brand without inserting a hyperlink
6. Encourage others to comment and leave your feedback on each of the comments if possible
I am sure if we can come out of random link building practices though this new venture Google will never consider guest posting a spam technique. Of course, quality and legitimacy matter and they vary from person to person.
What do you suggest?
I have read through the article and through some of the comments: there are quite a few valid points BUT I agree with one point: slamming guest posting in general is the same as saying *all* SEOs are spammers. We should encourage high-quality approach to guest posting and slam low-quality guest posting - this is the way to handle that.
In that respect, I'd say the title of the article is misleading
Ann I was waiting for your comment for the whole day. As Guest Blogging is the topic which makes you this popular that you had been referenced by industry leaders so many times for the guidance and tips on Guest Blogging. And Carson had also recommended your name for the guidance in Guest Blogging in the above article.
There's really something unbelievably flattering to know someone has been waiting for me here! Thanks!
Well the answer is WHY NOT. Ann i had readied your contributions from my beginning days as a learner in Search Industry. And whenever found any good article related to guest blogging it is obvious to suppose your contribution and your mention over there. I can say, ITS NATURAL.
Thanks.
Hi Ann,
I'm slamming the general method of guest blogging, not guest blogging in general. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. Furthermore, "doing guest blogging right" is a vague statement that I wanted to avoid. "Doing it right" is not just about writing good articles on good sites. This article is more concerned with proper strategic context than the proper tactical approach.
Yes, I know. Like I said, I did read the article :)
I was just commenting on the general impression, not trying to change the focus of the piece
I also appreciated the mention, Carson
Thanks, Ann, and your feedback was appreciated. If I was sharp, it's just because I'm very disappointed that others have posted nothing but criticism of the title. If the title is misleading, it is unintentionally so.
"General impression" is a good phrase to use about this article, and the general impression is probably why it has so many negative comments.
"Once more, just because something works does not mean we should be doing it – unless it is the best path to the fastest or most enduring results."
For some people it might be the best and fastest path.
I agree that people shouldn't use one tactic alone as a strategy, but for some sites guest blogging is a central part of their strategy.
Just like any other tactic, when one gets a lot of attention it gets abused. We all constantly remind our clients that "content is king" and so everyone looks for the easiest way to get content out there. Since article spinning sites have been beaten down by Panda, site owners turn to guest blogging as a way to get decent links fast. But like you mention, guest blogging is just one part of a content marketing campaign, which feeds into the rest of your SEO.
Please behave all of you! Let`s all jump on the bandwagon of slamming guest blogging then shall we?
Come on people. A few months ago it was something else and guest posting was a core factor in SEO, now it`s being attacked because someone decided that maybe it`s a bit spammy.... Yes, of course! most of what we do is a bit spammy. Creating/building/manufacturing links is bad! It`s against what Google wants but you all still do it. At least with Guest posting it`s creating quality content (from me anyway) which is what Google is looking for to be tied to the website in question. They wanted relevant, quality content, they got it. Whatever rules they apply, the industry will always find a way to get around it in a "legal" way.
It`s all well and good to say there`s another 20 odd things we can be getting on with as part of our strategy but come on, smaller businesses don`t have the resources or time to invest in awareness, advertising, white papers, online videos....even blog commenting! which let`s not forget has been attacked in the past for being a quick fix which people got wise to! That`s worse than guest posting surely?
I get fed up with listening to the experts change their mind every 3 months (and don`1t say it`s because things change quickly) and after telling everyone that guest posting/content marketing is a great way for content generation and creating quality linking opportunities, to then slamming it because someone gets a guilty conscience. Guess what? What we do is manipulation! don`t pretend it`s anything else, we are marketing and manipulating websites into position in a search engine. By manufacturing links, whether it`s by guest posting or by just "communicating" with possible sites. Come on, that`s worse than guest posting, just rocking up on someone`s email to become their friend and then eventually get a link.
Thoughts anyone? Anyone care to step from the big line of sheep queuing round the block and comment?
I agree. Whenever you are manually building a link - you are manipulating the search engine results. Can't ride both sides of the fence. SEO is what it is. Infact, even when you are doing inbound marketing (which still requires "outreach") and "building links" that way, you are still influencing search results - maybe that weren't perhaps "earned" but manipulated through connections, people you know, strings you can pull, yada yada.
Why would Google recommend the no-follow tag if it weren't true?
I agree with searchbrat where he says everyone on here that is involved together or works together just jumps on here and says the blog post is awesome.
I agree, guest posting is still a paid link. You're paying with content. Relationship building is still a paid link. You're building a relationship to get the link. The only type of natural link is those that come without ANY interference from the marketer.
No one wants to admit that though. Matt Cutts said guest posting is ok on one of his blog posts. That's all I need....
Exactly. Would people still do the guest post without the link? The guest post content is the payment.
David, you've totally missed the point if you think penalties are the only reason not to do something. I even made a big bold heading to anticipate that argument, and then went to great lengths to show that just because something can work and still not be worth doing.
Did I say I don't do guest posting? I said guest posting is a form of a paid link, but Matt Cutts said it was ok on his blog so I still do it. I'm agreeing with you here.
Matt might change his mind :) Google told us to build links once and now they are fighting with that.
There's a good point here that I probably should have made in the post.
Remember when Google told us to get links in directories? They were talking about places like the Yahoo directory, DMOZ, etc. - because up to that point, directories actually existed for people. When that all changed, Google's rhetoric became much more specific.
Matt may have said guest posting was ok in one context, but that's not a license to spam like we did with directories. We know how Google will feel about poorly-written articles on sites with poor editorial standards for the sake of a link. We know how Google will feel about bloggers who take payment for guest posts.
Dr. Pete's comment in this thread addressed the issue masterfully.
Not fighting with you here. But, define spam. Define poorly-written. Define poor editorial standards...
I think Charlie sums it up best here:
"It`s all well and good to say there`s another 20 odd things we can be getting on with as part of our strategy but come on, smaller businesses don`t have the resources or time to invest in awareness, advertising, white papers, online videos....even blog commenting!"
That's not a communication problem. That's not the SEOs fault. That's reality.
I agree, bad content is not used by authority sites, hence the value of guest posting. If you are posting on poor sites that accept poor content, the link value would be poor anyway, post panda. Google wants original, informative and useful content, guest posting does that. We want to get content in places where targeted people will read it to create traffic as well as a back link. Guest posting does this too. What is the issue??
Heh Ann, what does that mean for myblogguest then? :)
Love your site by the way.
We exist NOT for Google but because we love networking (at least that's how I planned it to be but many people abuse it as well)
If Google ever frightens away all link builders from the place, it will become purer as only those who get networking will remain (I don't say this won't reflect on our pocket but this is not I am afraid of :) )
I'm afraid we're not talking about the same thing. I'm criticizing the method of what is currently a widespread practice. To me, this is the bandwagon. And by the way, I'm not impressed by the argument from intimidation.
I will continue to encourage proper use of guest blogging, but the problem is that it's being used as if it's the only solution to linkbuilding post-Penguin. It's not the solution for every situation, and it's never the best situation as the sole linkbuilding tactic.
guest posting is definitely not the only solution. Using guest posting as the only tactic in your link building strategy is definitely not your best option.
But it is still an option. And it still works.
Here's why.
Once you guest post your way to number one, you will start getting natural links simply because you are number one. How many times have you "Google'ed" something and ended up linking to one of the top 3 sites?
It simply gives you a chance to get linked to more often.
The fact of the matter is, is that whenever you write a guest post, the content always has incentives. Your link and your "wonderment" of where that link is going to land you in the SERPs is always what is driving you the most (once again unless you are willing to slap on that no-follow tag because the post is going to drive mad traffic).
How many ways can you say TOP however many ways to build links? Or How many times can you say "Stay away from SPAM"
Or how many Whiteboard Friday videos does there need to be about Blog Commenting?
IMHO, content marketing, and the way many of today's Internet marketers describe content marketing, and then the outreach they do to do that content marketing, is just as much as SPAM, as guest posting.
Wow...I didn`t mean to cause a war. Certainly wasn`t my intention, however, I must say I understand Carson`s viewpoint and his initial point in the post. But I`m of the opinion that if Guest Posting works, why not utilise it? I only produce quality content pieces for guest posting...these take 2-3 hours to research and write sometimes longer...so why shouldn`t I primarily use guest posting as a viable tactic? I`ve earned it and it`s quality content which adds value. I`ve not whipped it up in half an hour and posted it.
Guest posting shouldn`t be the sole tactic no, but it`s clear now that realistically if "content is king", as has been quoted MANY times on SEO Moz, then I don`t see anything trumping guest posting as the core tool for helping rankings.
Let`s not spam it, certainly, let`s not write rubbish for the sake of it but let`s spend the time, do the research and write quality pieces. The result? Google will take note and as I`ve seen already with a few clients...it works. We are in the manipulation game, people. Let`s not forget that and kid ourselves it`s anything else.
"We are in the manipulation game, people. Let`s not forget that and kid ourselves it`s anything else." - AGREED!!
Excellent - now if we can just get the masses of band-wagon jumping "next big thing" chasers to understand that "good content" is more than just a buzzword, we will all be better off.
Effective use of guest blogging in a link strategy requires the ability understand the importance of more than just things like "link juice". Unfortunately it seems that many people are already treating it like it is the next step in article spinning and fail to understand the importance of the content itself, or the importance of who you are actually reaching by guest posting on a particular blog. So it still comes back to the old "is it for people or for search engines"?
Hear hear.
You might want to tweak your title to "Guest Blogging for SEO" - Enough is Enough... because I might agree with that.
I did a blog post on one of my competitor's site back in 2010 that brought in enough money to buy a new car... not a fancy car, but a nice new Toyota RAV 4. Just one post. And my competitor didn't have a site with massive traffic.
I'm not exactly sure why so many slam guest posting these days. It's truly an amazing leverage play (when done the right way).
Ironically, I never heard of the author of this post (Carson Ward) before he guest blogged on why we should not use guest blogging as a strategy. Hmmmm.
Update: I read a comment below that claims this article isn't a guest post, but rather a YOUMoz.
Wow. I thought Ivy Lee and Eddie Bernays died a long time ago. Apparently their propaganda (now known as PR) is alive and well.
What's interesting is when you search Google for those working for Distilled:
site:www.seomoz.org "distilled member profile"
... Google points to 29 different "Distilled Member" profiles. And many have at least 10 published posts on the main site (I think there's a glitch... the stats only show a maximum of 10).
And when you take the time to analyze the YOUMoz posts of these Distilled contributors, in almost every case their post was found on the main blog. (After investing lots of time, I found just 2 posts that didn't make the prime cut).
They slam for the same reasons that so many people slam SEO as nothing but a bunch of scammy spammers.
Because there are a ton people who do nothing but scammy spamming and call it SEO services.
But "we" know that it's possible to do legit SEO for a company or brand and it be a fantastic win for them without being spammy or scammy.
It's just really difficult to keep the baby from flying out with the bathwater. Because it's a HUGE tub of bathwater, and one tiny little white-capped baby.
I am totally agree with you NTM actually the worst part of SEO is the commercialization of links. It attracts the millions of spammers to the industry for the sake of easy money. I had never understood how those guys impress their clients to have a business from them while offering a unplanned or strategy less link building packages. I feel really sad whenever I face a clients who got cheated on the name of SEO Services. And at that time i just think how important is the role of SEOMOZ , Search Engine Land, SEOBOOK, Google support, Webmaster World and many more communities who had really worked very very hard for the awareness of SEO and search marketing. But unfortunately still we have a long way to go to make a industry a spammers free.
I would pretty much agree with what is said in this post, but I don't think most legitimate SEO's see guest blogging as an actual strategy. It's just part of a strategy, just like onsite optimization and the others.
I think you just indirectly said a lot of self-professed SEOs are not legitimate :) I really appreciate this comment, especially given the source. Thanks!
what he is saying is that guest posting is a tactic, not a strategy. Tactics are what you use to deploy your overall strategy
Imageworks: That is right on the money.
Carson: Well I think that for sure goes without saying! I just worry about those going away from this post with a negative opinion on this excellent LINK BUILDING strategy, not SEO strategy :)
Hi Carson, i am agree with you and your point which you want to say.
You should have seen the original title. It was phrased... quite strongly :) Anyway, I didn't think "enough is enough" would be interpreted as "NEVER EVER EVER," and if you read the post that would be abundantly clear.
link or it didnt happen lol
1. I've removed the unnecessary comment
2. Let me say this again, this is not a YouMoz post. Carson is one of our main blog authors. We have worked with Distilled for over three years now, and once a week they write for the SEOmoz blog. This has been a part of our contract of working together since the beginning. There was no need to waste your time looking at Distilled posts, as they should all be on the main blog because they are trusted authors.
Thanks, I hope this answers some questions a bit.
It's really strange that the Moz audience are not aware of the Moz and Distilled relations.
Jennita I would love to share a Moz link here to help many other who are not aware about Distilled presence and importance.
Guys have a look to this page
SEOmoz Partners with Distilled
Actually, I had to go here to see about this Distilled/SEOMoz relationship:
https://www.quora.com/SEOmoz/What-is-the-business-relationship-between-SEOmoz-and-Distilled
It's right here:
https://www.seomoz.org/dp/distilled
They don't try to hide it. Anyone who takes a look around will find it.
Jennita... you (or some other moderator) seem to have a passion of deleting/editing my comments here. Not cool.
And I've read on your blog that others notice this, too.
That seems to go against your transparency core values.
Speaking of, I was surprised to learn that your Twitter account has 232 faked followers and Rand's Twitter account has 1,335 faked followers. Very not cool.
Would either of you like to officially comment on this? I'm doing a blog post about the most trusted online marketing gurus who faked it 'til they made it -
I'm publishing this on my blog this Thursday (with proof). And I'm stunned who's on my list.
This article reveals the method of how to find out how many fake Twitter followers anyone has:
https://techcrunch.com/2012/08/24/find-out-how-many-fake-twitter-followers-you-have-with-statuspeople/
I may be being naive, but I'm just going to put it out there... I'm not convinced having fake twitter followers helps with building out a software company. or a popular blog and online community... or anything really.
I have relatively few followers on twitter, but a large number of them are comprised of local businesses in the city of Nottingham, UK. I don't live in Nottingham and have indeed never actually been there - but nonetheless, some bad social media agencies think it's worthwhile plugging "Nottingham" into followerwonk and then following every account that turn up. Do I want to be followed by these people? no, not really, but there's very little point weeding through each week to split the wheat from the chaff, as it's time consuming and makes almost no difference to my day to day activities
I'm not sure on what basis you propose that Rand or Jen should bother to do so either.
Not sure how significant the Fake Followers are as a measure of integrity - unless maybe the % hits a certain threshold. My main account shows 10% fake followers and I have no idea where they would come from, although I have blocked and reported numerous spam followers in the past.
Fake followers often are spamming the account they are following - the complete opposite of somebody buying fake followers - why would they do that? Probably to promote CPA offers, etc.
Although I've just gone through my account and found spam followers who haven't tweeted anything as well - not sure why they would do that unless it's just a numbers game of following lots of accounts. Pretty easy to tell the spam followers as their user names often end with numbers like billy1458, etc. And I just found spam follower in my account that tweeted a video from Gideon International out of China on Vimeo.
This app is mentioned in the comments of the TechCrunch article as a way to BLOCK fake/spam followers: https://blockfak.es, although a large majority that it found were actually friends of mine. Hmmm.
Have you set up a test to see how many fake followers you end up with without doing anything at all? I would think that an app like the one mentioned at TechCrunch would have some sort of statistically margin of error. And I'm guessing certain markets would garner more spam followers than other markets - i.e. weight loss vs. jazz piano.
That app is showing 3% fake followers for the randfish account. I'm not sure how to calculate a baseline/margin of error, but I'm guessing that would end up being a low percentage. None of this even mentions the sample size - which obviously would increase the accuracy as the sample size increases.
What's more concerning to me about the SEOMoz/Distilled relationship is that Distilled is on SEOMoz's list of recommended companies, yet there's no disclosure in that listing about the contractual relationship that Jennita has just mentioned.
I agree with the post above ... I think sometime's they just need topics to talk about on here .. guest blogging still has great effects on organic rankings ... def depends on the industry your in though and how effective it can be for you.
Great post!. I think your right in some respects. We need to not consider "guest blogging" our entire link building process. I am trying to build the current offpage services I offer clients based on two "pre--requisites" , does it build trust?, does it build engagement?. However, I do believe that guest blogging is still a solid tactic. For me SEO's now have to be fully fledged PR companies to succeed.
I agree but it's also a matter of prices. I agree with quality guest blogging, sharing, etc. but at what prices ? Not all our client sell some BMW online making hundred of thousand income a day ....
Agreed! The small business only has a small budget so we can't delve into all the content marketing suggestions above. I think we need to set expectations in these circumstances and tailor what we can offer according to budget without sacrificing quality. Not easy in these post penguin days.
I sympathize with those who feel they have limited budget, or a "boring" niche. That makes it harder. Still, there are things you can do that will have a long-term impact, as opposed to just throwing guest blogs to the wind.
I think that guest posting when it's relevant and from an authoritative source is perfectly fine.It's just the same as article swapping between 3rd party powerful real websites, only better because you don't need to return a link.
The only issue is with the spammy blogs that were never promoted in the SERP and were born entirely for the purpose of links exchange. I don't deal with those.
A guest blog about stopping guest blogging? I do agree though, don't just guest blog CONTRIBUTE and use it as part of your strategy. Sometimes it doesn't fit, sometimes it works great.
Could we see the numbers behind the graphs?
Hi Liam,
See here: https://www.seomoz.org/blog/guest-blogging-enough-is-enough#jtc192263
I probably should have labeled the graph as conceptual and removed the numbers from the axes. It was my mistake to assume that people would get that. No, I have never seen data that neat in analytics, nor could I find a tool that measures overall value to a business. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
In small doses, I enjoy guest blogging. It increases my own personal brand awareness and it gives me a reason to research topics, write a compelling post and share on a platform I normally would not have access to. But I'm no serial guest-blogger.
Thanks for sharing the post Carson, I enjoyed reading it.
Thanks, Steven, I think you're right on. Guest blogging can be great in that sense - to raise awareness for a brand you're working on building. Once your brand and site are in order, using various channels - of which guest posting is just one - to raise awareness works really well.
First i would say to thank for this post Carson, it's really something what i really need to know whole about the Guest Blogging.
What are your best Guest Blogging Strategies use and recommend us to work on?
What can I say? Guest blogging is a good way to diverse your backlink profile...
Guest blogging works bottomline ... the people that complain about it prolly cant do it on the same scale as the SEO's that crush it
And i think one of Carson's points is that it might eventually be crushed! ;)
Another big problem with guest posting is the authors are researching the competition and stealing idea's rather than base the content on their personal experience.
The site owners know this and allow it.
Google is about answers. Marketers have to focus on offering unique value for objective queries.The key will be to focus on content that has original value – such as original reviews, unique data or insight. Source: Matt Cutts
So opinion is not important??????????????? Well tell that to the tabloids that are 99% opinion, and all over the web. Read reviews of movies, many are so similar you can forget that they are different.
Hi,
I like this post and according to me guest posting is not only best strategy for website marketing we have to use this as one of our wider marketing techniques. Google gives preference to guest posting so it is not worth to doing guest post but main thing is your content we should not forget this sentence " content is king" so we have to produce brilliant content for the getting attention.
Like all things post-penguin, one needs to implement and well-rounded strategy. Thoughtless guest posting alone is definately a recipe for failure.
Wowzers, reading those comments just sucked up a big part of my morning.
It's really a simple issue, anything when attempting to build links, done badly, in a rote and production line fashion becomes problematic. It's almost this thought: must... get... links... that causes the problem.
There is no denying, that for smaller, local or new businesses, this can help get the ball rolling and get a few new links but long term, the strategy, as the author states should look at many inbound channels, not all will build links in the same way but even the two oldest and most abused techniques of blog comments and forum posts drive plenty of traffic to our site as we try to always offer value in our interactions.
There is also the point that if you have a new or lowly site, and want to get your name out there for a weighty topic, by writing on a more established site, you can help to get found a little easier.
Quality and value as to be at the heart of everything that you do and you simply can't create a production line for worthwhile exposure, referrals and links.
Wow, this post certainly has elicited a fair amount of polarization.
Originally, I intended to comment right away. However, after reading some of the early commentary I changed my mind and moved on to other things. Now I think I have a better idea of what this piece, the commenters, and others have had to say about this topic and I've been able to formulate my own opinion.
Along with this post, I read a comparison piece by Dayne Shuda, Founder of Ghost Blog Writers, for a different perspective on, not only the subject of guest blogging, but also on this post.
Site owners don't always have the time or resources to continually add content to their sites to attract new visitors and add value and quite often they reach outside their company to guest bloggers to provide content. Getting guest bloggers to produce content for their website is a tactic used by site owners.
Link builders are always looking for ways to get great links on authoritative sites. One method for getting links is to guest blog. Guest blogging has many advantages for getting links; many of which are described above. Perhaps the greatest advantage is that with guest blogging you have control over the content surrounding your link as well as where your link is located (you did choose which blog to guest post on, right?). Using guest blogging to get links is a tactic used by link builders.
So I've come away from this experience understanding more that, as many here have said, Guest Blogging is a tactic. More so, guest blogging is a great tactic; both for the guest blogger and also the site owner, both for SEO and also for building value. Great content is hard to produce. It requires work. But great content provides value and that value brings in traffic and that is why it is so important. It's very cyclical.
If you don't know the power of a good guest blog post, wait a few months and search Google for "guest blogging". Look for this post on the first page.
fact is guest posting still works, and is a numbers game that Google will have a hard time knocking down.Here is the case for guest posting as a numbers game
uno: Guest blogging as a numbers game still works and has exponential rewards. Not sure where you got those graphs from, but there are many other graphs that would solely praise the works of guest posting and the exponential and "ripple down" effects that it can have on a websites traffic.
This is not seen by many because well, mainly most people haven't tried it. And many of those that have give up way to early, or write 20 guest posts and then claim they know everything about it. The fact is that you have to stick with guest posting for at least a year straight. And you have to put money down up front for them, that is why people don't stick around at first. Aaron Wall has said it many times, and many SEO's know this: SEO involves a lot of upfront costs where the ROI pans out somewhere along the lines in the future.
Reason number 2 why people don't really see the value of guest posting is because they miss the fact that the age of links is very important. It has been said that Google identifies paid links by seeing if the links get taken down (because a lot of the times if links aren't working than companies take them down - which is a paid link indicator). Reason number 3 is that guest posting is time consuming, and can be done the wrong way - and frankly most people just don't know how to attack it and it ends up consuming them - and may not have the initial results that you were hoping for.
dos: You have to have unique content & the blogger must approve. Let's be real. Everyone is guest posting for links - at least in guest posting you have to have unique content. The only time you are not guest posting for search rankings is when you know that link is going to bring you traffic. Or in lamens terms - you would take the time of your day to write the best article you have written and have no problem slapping a "no-follow" tag on the link - which lets all be honest, is never going to happen.
tres. Take some time to realize the good that link building (even as a numbers game) as guest posting does.
cuatro. Your first sentence is completely and utterly wrong. Perhaps they aren't technically the best tactics to deploying a guest posting campaign, but they still work, and are very effective. Also: Guest posts are still panda and penguin proof. And as long as you do quality posts over a long period of time your website will benefit from them for quite some time. It just takes either A) upfront money or B) a lot of your time.
Cinco. What can you learn from guest posts?
Guest posting has opened up the door for many SEO's. I don't know how you could say enough is enough. Perhaps you mean a certain kind of guest posting, or something that isn't guest posting at all. And the important thing to remember here is that as SEO's the majority of us have written a guest post, submitted to an article directory, or done a link directory submission. Let's take the "white hat" off for a second and just be real.
I agree. Guest Posting is being done like Directory Listings / Directory Submissions were being done 5 Years Ago. All everybody talks about is Guest Posts. Any one kind of links, that you over do and become a higher then normal percentage of your backlinks, is a problem. It can be directory links, comment spam, press releases, guest posts, etc etc...Excess of Anything is BAD.
Great Post Carson.
Well said Nakul, so how do you figure out the exact percentage of any link we acquire that this would be normal or natural links to pass every SEO benefits website needs?
@Ram, unfortunately, there's no magic way to calculate what's natural. There's only natural and non-so-natural. If you think about it, you could have a TV Ad or a Newspaper Ad that everybody starts blogging about. Those are natural links. But when you reach out to 10/50/100 bloggers getting Blog Reviews/Guest Posts, they are not natural because they usually have some sort of a pattern.
1. Length of the article is very similar (100 words/200 words/500 words and so on)
2. Perfect link to your website.
3. It's usually very keyword focused.
And that's what the problem is. Does that make sense ? In the perfect world, one should do things that lead to these kinds of links...all kinds of links. Good content with a strategy.
Nice @Nakul, It's a lot making sense to me on this to know something about well how it should be treated as natural or unnatural.
Yes, Content Strategy is only the key to get a success on the way to form all our content creation stuff well informative and interesting for the users.
Hi Nakul,
Thank you, and this is really the heart of the issue that I'm driving at. We can't get tunnel vision finding that something works, and let other things that matter more go neglected. If we're going to get excessive with anything, it should be content and UX.
I agree. I loved your article. I am glad you wrote it. Also see my comment to Ram above. Thanks Carson.
If you regularly add pages to your site and don't get inbound links due to low exposure you may be facing a negative Panda update. Does that make you a content farm?
Guest blogging in conjunction with content development helps insulate a site from Panda penalties IMHO.
I agree to the point that guest posting is considered as a good and useful approach for SEO, but if that is done at random like what used to be in directory submission then what would be the value of delicate work? Guest posting should be a part of off page activity and that should be maintained sincerely avoiding spammy tag.
I don't know anyone who relies solely on guest posting anyway. :D
Thanks for sharing such a useful information about guest post. Nowadays guest post is playing very important role in ranking but i think should not fully depend upon it or focus. Otherwise spammers will be increase in numbers so we need to do right things as per the guideline by Google and try to collect the unique guest post.
hi shashi i found you here well, this must be one of best informative article on guest post which help all of us.
Great post. This is a good heads up about making use of guest posting / blogging to a more comprehensive marketing strategy does. Some only make use of it just to gain links or traffic - losing the quality of contents that could have been way more helpful to others.
Regards,
Mac2x.
I have used guest blogging successfully, but as many of you have mentioned, it has to be part of a larger strategy. I feel strongly that if you are going to have a guest writer, then it is imperative that you have original content that expresses YOUR opinions or the facts that YOU would talk about. Just like a scammy approach to on-site optimization is a disaster and disgusting to look at, so is a scammy approach to blogging.
Overall, great article. What I heard you saying was that guest blogging can be a successful strategy if it is one of the components of an overall strategy.
P.S. My computer wanted to keep changing the word "scammy" to "scummy" ... Either word would work.
Thanks for a thought provoking post. Guest posting has worked for me in the past and still works for me today, but to become too focused on it will ultimately lead to failure in the long term. I think the SEO industry as a whole needs to move permanently away from quick fix, short term strategies, and think what actions need to be taken to ensure long term success. And this requires us to become more creative and put in a little old fashioned hard work.
Hope Carson won't get discouraged by all the stupid comments and the thumbs down.
It's nice to see a "spot on" post here for a change (not saying the others are not good - but mainly too general and with the same attitude: seo is great, we are all so smart, let's do that and that ... bal bla
You did touch a sensitive subject as guest posting is indeed a stand alone if not the only strategy available for a lot of freelancers and agencies (including big ones) and you are touching their income in some way and they jump like burned as they would like to do the same non sense spamy articles publishing all day all over again forever to squeeze some additional $$$
Thumbs Up Carson !
Another presumption that anyone doing guest posting is submitting nonsense and spam....
If people are doing it like that, then yeah, enough is enough. Or they can carry on doing it as it will only harm them in the long run.
I think that's an unfair way of glazing over some pretty obvious problems in this post.
Set aside any ideas about people being defensive about guest blogging and look at the actual argument being put forward in this article:
For a start it's all based on this idea that guest blogging gives diminishing returns. Great, that's probably true. But where is your data? Unless I'm missing something (and I've been over the article a few times now looking for some crucial argument that I've missed) that claim is completely unsupported by data.
Instead, what we have are a couple of made up graphs with nonsensical axes (a 1 to 18 scale of 'value', really?) that conveniently illustrate your point. If you're not going to include hard data, don't include a graph. It's misleading, and just makes you look pretty silly when someone calls you out on it. It's just not okay to base an argument on an unsupported premise.
A lot of what you've said is likely true. Anyone who thinks guest blogging alone will get you somewhere is misguided. But you've muddled your own reasoning by trying to make your post look analytic in a way that it just isn't.
Made up graphs certainly don't add value.
Thanks you very much - and no, I'm not terribly discouraged by this. Personal attacks and straw-man arguments are disappointing, but I was expecting for this to touch a nerve for the reasons you discussed. When a post does that you have to expect people to nitpick and love/hate everything about the post.
Happily, I've learned a couple things about how to approach controversial subjects, and I can't tell you how valuable that is for me.
Meh. Sorry, but this article is disjointed and lazy. Why the made-up graphs? Did you really need to work in the Rand-love graphic? You might as well have the ridiculous meme that everyone else uses with Gene Wilder saying "You've done a guest blog? You must be a great SEO."
Anyone who thinks that guest blogging alone as a 'strategy' should be shot. That's obvious. It's a great tactic, if done right.
The only thing you should be trying to do is add value to the internet. Add value to someone else's site, add value to your own, and you'll be rewarded in the end. Doesn't matter if you're guest blogging, creating infographics or doing bloody handstands, if you're seeking out your audience and adding value to their lives, then you'll do well.
PS - I'm not really advocating shooting bad SEOs. Locking them up will do :)
wow.. i can not see why every body is having a go at Carson Ward. i can not see anywhere he said do not do guest posting...
"Guest blog posts, all by themselves, do increase rankings. That does not necessarily mean they are worth doing." - Carson Ward
Everyone wants to be friendly on here that's why every article gets 75 thumbs up and 0 -2 thumbs down ... when you see and article on SeoMoz with 36 thumbs down you know the article is garbage.
ummmm... the title is "
"Guest Blogging - Enough is Enough"
!!!
Ok. So the essence of the article is essentially that guest blogging isn't a strategy, it's a tactic. And that just using guest blogging alone won't work as well as doing great content on your own site.
So, can you point me to one person who has ever suggested that you should just be guest blogging and not doing great content on your own site?
Cos unless people are saying this, I can't say who you're arguing with or ranting against.
Thanks so much for this informative piece Carson. I'm relative new-comer to SEO, having just hit the one year milestone (I've worked both in-house and I'm now working for an agency.)
I'm quite a big fan of guest posting as a tactic and I echo the sentiments of many readers here about doing it correctly and as part of an overall strategy.
I also think it's particularly prevalent for those working in an agency environment. I really agree with some of Adria's comments early on in your post. In agency life you could be working alongside brands that are not willing to accept creative link bait ideas or content on their own site. Alternatively, the niche of a client could be so dull that even if you thought of elaborate and creative idea, people are probably may still not give a damn. All that matters is showing clients metrics and results (after all, that's why they're paying you). Consequently, link builders are left to have to hit their link targets through guest posting, with not little time to work on other tactics, making guest posting a main tactic.
I'm fully aware of other ways to go about linkbuilding, but in this environment what would people suggest linkbuilders spend more time on? I'd really love to get some insights from some experienced SEOs on this issue.
Thanks much for this detail discussion, I was really after the guest blogging. But now use it wisely.
Yes, at present guest posting is a important part of SEO.
I see no harm in guest blogging as long as there's a reason and you can add something to the argument. Blogging for the sake of a link helps noone. If you have something useful to add then say so and it will more than likely get picked up and shared and that's how it should be.
I'm getting bored of reading the same blogs with the same information written differently. SEO is about optimising you site and subject matter to increase rankings within that field, yes there are tactics that can be employed but good quality unique content that's relevant to your audience will generate interest and traffic, this improving rankings.
I totally agree with a post above that guest blogging is a great way to build relationships. Using it for this will also help you much more in the long run.
Great advice and I think you are totally correct in that a varied link strategy is required as this is what should happen in the natural world. Great post, thanks - Sue
Again, it came in existence that SEO people has not stopped this, they still doing guest posting to get link, now the goal of guest posting has changed. Every people should understand this.
I enjoyed reading your post. Guest blogging is no doubt very helpful in every aspect whether you need good traffic, awareness or ranking but without proper research, it's wastage of time. In that case, better not doing it.
Are there limitations while guest posting. other than these two..
[link removed]
If you think guest blogging is enough than why sites like alexa give point to those guest blogging and count that as the point for ranking
I agree - guest posting should always be part of a wider plan - never the plan itself.
I do think that a lot of sites will be hit with a guest posting penalty though - have you seen the state of things like BloggerLinkUp and MyGuestPost lately? They are full of people just creating content farms - there's no way this bubble is going to last.
thank you for your great post . i have started to make guest post culture in my country but i cant do that :D i think guest post is like a potion for a sick blog . it can make a people healthy and make a rich people more power
"There are as many ways to get links as there are people and pages, but in the aftermath of Penguin, guest articles are slowly becoming an industry default. I fear that the trend is driven by a lack of creativity, augmented by fear of failure, and then reinforced by poor communication." - great article overall. I would say the only time guest blogging can be a good strategy is when you are trying to create relationships with top influencers in your industry.
It's exhausting having read through so many misunderstandings and explanations.
I do think that 'enough is enough' in every day language might be paraphased as 'stop doing it' and this may have been the root cause of some of the misunderstandings.
However, it didn't take long to realise from the rest of the article that this is not what was intended so I'm not sure why that wasn't apparent to everybody who read it properly.
Like all strategies - having all your eggs in only one of them isn't going to last long. Guest Blogging is a strategy worth investing in for some clients/sites but not for all of them. Hotels/Travel industry will benefit the most in my opinion and some others wont benefit as much - trades etc - unless you find the specific niche blog for them - how to sites might work well for these guys.
At the end of the day, each site needs its own strategy that might have similarities to others but will never be exactly the same.
"It seems highly unlikely that Google will penalize guest posts just because they are guest posts. It’s a perfectly legitimate strategy – at least, when it is legitimate"
The problem is there are already tons of sites abusing this method by creating guest blogging networks. It is what it is. A way to manipulate the search engines by gaining links to your website. I would not be surprised if Google eventually penalizes it.
I wonder if Google will strike..... that makes me hold off guests on my blog, I would so dearly love to have more content... at this time I feel I have to prepare my own.....
It's funny because it's a strategy working for you! Unless you own SEOmoz, your post is a guest post! :)
Very interesting thoughts. Guest blogging can show that you have an interest in your online community, however when it is done poorly and just for increasing your link profile, then it is worse than useless.
Guest blogging is helpful but there's a lot much easier way and more effective than doing a guest blog. You could be just wasting your Good Article for other site's sake instead of your site all you get is 1 referral and probably a few traffics.
Some of the best guest blogs I have done in the past are usually via making contacts with blog owners at events or on social sites.
The thing is people are spamming hard these days, blog owners are starting to be turned away by email, you need to step above and look for a niche way to target these sites so going to blogger meet ups and making niche specific contacts based on your industries is something I advise on.
Overall very nice post but =)
Shoot, James, this is one of the things I thought I had made clear. Don't stop guest posting, and certainly don't stop building those relationships, but many SEOs do need to stop ignoring more beneficial activities as they crank out guest post after guest post.
I think its a not bad article. In fairness it is correct in what it actually was about, however the title really mislead I think and this is why people have had such a 'disagreeing' mentality with it.Then again part of me thinks the title was deliberate as it catches the attention.
Either way thumbs up :)
Carson, I completely agree with you!
I almost never do guest posts (unless I can determine that doing so brings value) and I constantly push content to our clients and team as well. As cliche as it sounds, content is king. And I believe it will be king for the foreseeable future.
I think this is mistake was done by our experts because every where some expert saying contextual links and unable to deliver what they want to say so, because of that some new SEO's or learner think about guest blogging stuff that is way this thing getting to much hype in inbound Marketing and due to lack of experiences they never think and make any strategy that how to create and where to post.
Yes I do Agree guest posting is becoming industry standard, as now all the other industry standards have been outdated such as directory submission, blog commenting, article directories and etc.
Great Article. Thanks for brief explanation. I will follow your guidelines.
I think "guest blogging is not a strategy" is the key takeaway from this. Anytime a tool is turned into a strategy it is destined to be inefficient. Facebook, Twitter, and other social media fall into the same category.
In general, understanding each tool and its purpose and crafting a strategy utilizing each tool for the appropriate need will lead to better results and more efficient use of time.
I agree, and I often view guest blogging as a lazy outlet - on both sides. It can move a needle, but seldom does it move the needle that counts - or to the degree that is reported.
I wasn't really sure what this article was trying to get at at first, but on second read, my main takeaway was:
With that in mind - focusing on content with more link potential makes more sense.
Guest posts are great for getting you off the ground and as an intermittent strategy, but focusing an innordinate amount of attention on them doesn't really make sense given that there are much more 'fertile' linking opportunities that you could be pursuing - such as creating great content that gets linked to.
I think blind-sidedness is a big problem in SEO. We see singular opportunities and pounce on them like hungry lions, not realising that a whole pack of antelope was walking past behind us at the very time.
Guest Blogging imo is still extremely effective, but what I'm seeing is that it is becoming a "quality not quantity" sort of thing. Unless your SEO efforts consist of a team of multiple article writers, it's just humanly impossible to write guest posts on the same range of topics day in and day out. The most bang is to focus your time and energy in writing compelling, quality articles infrequently. It keeps the quality of content high, and the offers will tend to be from more quality sites. Great read! Thanks
I totally agree with Carson. I have been doing Guest blogging for few of my clients targeting very competitive and bet you, it was very effective. But at the same time, it should also combine with different SEO strategies to ensure that you get maximum.
Hi Carson,
I mostly agree with you but I have seen more than one startup who have grown their company significantly by focusing on guest posting as a strategy so I think it depends who you are. It can be a great strategy if you are a small business or startup if you go about it the right way and supplement it with other inbound marketing tactics. Google: "How Guest Posting Propelled One Site From 0 to 100,000 Customers."
I agree that Guest Blogging has become an SEO standard strategy and from my experience its realative not that hard to find blogs who accept Guest posts with good PR, especially in Technology, SEO, Social Media and other Digital subject.
But did you try doing Guest Blogging in other niches like law, finance, business and other services? In some niches its realy hard to even get a PR0 guest posts.
I wish things where much easier but getting links day by day becomes harder but i guess thats what Good SEOs need
There is a lot more that goes into guest blog posts than you make evident in your post :)
Good read, however.
I am not sure if I entirely agree with you on this subject. However, I do agree that people are overdoing it with guest blogging.
Great resource article Carson.
Something gets popular and works, someone attacks it to create a bit of controversy. Maybe a bit of an inbound marketing tactic for their own guest post.
People run out of things to post about so they start slammin what works
I'm currently writing a post titled:
Content Creation - Enough is Enough
I plan to mention 'content is king' at least 12 times in the post. It's going to be a hit.
I would love to respond to your argument, but you haven't made one. Let's try to be adults about this. I didn't create this to stir up controversy, I created it to urge people to move away from short-sighted strategy.
Did I miss the part where you explain why you chose the title:
Guest Blogging - Enough is Enough and then write a post about why you support guest posting in small doses?
I expect more depth in SEOmoz posts. Anyone can write a bland post about diversifying your backlinks... that's not a post for SEOmoz though. That's my only argument here.
I don't work at SEOmoz though so my comments don't really matter. Maybe you did help someone, so in that sense bravo.
Guest blogging was once a great tool to build real relationship with targeted readers. Oh I am becoming a bit nostalgic now. Those good old days are gone and now the online marketers are left with little choices than harping on the one and only ethical way of building links (still) i.e. Guest blogging.
I have raised the issue to John Muller of Google during a Hangout session few weeks ago and this was what he said (please correct me John, if I am wrong over here :)
Rather than posting low quality articles in ten sites just to get links why not do proper research and write something that people would really care to share.
But we marketers have to deal with clients and their expectations. They still believe that they can clinch top three positions in the SERP by paying peanuts worth of $200 per month. We need to come out of this mentality. This is not going to help the client and us. Things have started changing and probably we should remain thankful to Google Penguin update for that.
Now the question is – “Will Google come down hard on Guest Blogging?” As I have said earlier, guest blogging has once a great tool to promote our brand value but thanks to online marketers, this has now been reduced to another shoddy tactic to get links and only links nothing else.
So I would not be surprised if some sites that are heavily dependent on guest bloggings get severally affected by the upcoming Penguin update.
However, I am not asking you to relegate the concept of guest blogging to the bean. Nope, rather what I am trying to convey is –
I would love to get feedbacks of others too here.
Very well said Carson, Guest blogging is not a strategy it is just a part of our SEO strategy. We can share the information through it. But I think instead of doing guest blogging for other's blog, we should create our own blog and share the unique and informative content there. It will be beneficial only for us and will increase our blog popularity.
Guest blogging is good when it comes to get backlinks, but instead of waiting for blogger's reply, we can post our content at some other place from where we can traffic to our site and people will like our content they will get information through our content, they will definitely share our content.
I think we should rely on guest blogging as there are so many other ways to get traffic and backlinks.
A great post. Thought-provoking. We'll be discussing Guest Blogging in the #SEOpub Twitter chat this week (Wednesday at 3:00 EST).
Wow, such a competitive and hot topic!
Regardless, great work guys and great comments as well.
I personally agree with the author. Guest posting is a great way to get links and visitors but at the same time it should not be your "be all/end all" strategy.
Misleading headlines - enough is enough!
Guest Posting Doesn't Work Huh -
Well lets take the facts - if you know what you're doing it works well....VERY well. If you are in an industry like you reference that doesn't have enough relevant blogs to contact and write great content for - you are most likely not going to find a good website to get a link on either. Your point of diminishing returns only makes sense if there is not enough fruit in the forest, and I bet most of the times that's because you can't find it.
Blogs will love you and ask you to come back again and again if you write real content. End of story.
Also, why promote guest blogging all year when you're just going to have someone say - enough is enough?
https://www.seomoz.org/blog/getting-started-with-guest-posting-whiteboard-friday
https://www.seomoz.org/blog/how-to-evaluate-guest-post-opportunities
https://www.seomoz.org/blog/guest-blogging-strategies-whiteboard-friday
Please let me know if I'm the only one that feels this way.
Thanks.
Firstly, that's not what I said. The title of this post was not, "guest posting - never do it, because it never works." I don't think anything Eric, James, or Rand said contradicts what I've said here. In fact, much of it corroborates what I'm saying.
Let's talk about the blogs that ask you to come back again and again. As I'm sure you're aware, domain diversity matters. If you repeatedly blog on the same blog for the sake of getting anchor text links, that quickly becomes less and less helpful. Diminishing returns.
But what about the readers of the sites you post to? If your site is terrible and people see your link and then leave, you're missing out on gaining new repeat visitors and shares. If your site is awesome, then your guest posts serve you well - but even that has its limit, as your awareness saturates that site/blog's audience. As I said, use all the channels you can - including blogs - to raise interest and awareness. That only works if you begin with something interesting.
You then need more blogs to post on if you want to increase your awareness at the same rate, but there are only so many blogs out there with actual readers. As you begin to drift away from the ideal guest blog locations, your returns necessarily diminish as you spend more time looking for sites, their relevance declines, and/or the readership of the blogs you find is lower.
Arguing that guest blogging scales with return to infinity is not defensible.
"Let's talk about the blogs that ask you to come back again and again. As I'm sure you're aware, domain diversity matters. If you repeatedly blog on the same blog for the sake of getting anchor text links, that quickly becomes less and less helpful. Diminishing returns."
- Unless you are small time, I assume you have numerous clients that need links. On a general health blog I can easily get 4-5 clients links on the same site.
"But what about the readers of the sites you post to? If your site is terrible and people see your link and then leave, you're missing out on gaining new repeat visitors and shares. If your site is awesome, then your guest posts serve you well - but even that has its limit, as your awareness saturates that site/blog's audience. As I said, use all the channels you can - including blogs - to raise interest and awareness. That only works if you begin with something interesting."
- The blogs you post on have to be relevant in some way ... that's the only thing you need to worry about in the industries we attack. We just need the perfect anchor text links to subpages to drive huge amounts of traffic. Rather than go after "High-End" blogs to drive "referral traffic" which is small thinking. However, it again depends what industry your in. A Lawyer site is much different then selling palm trees.
"You then need more blogs to post on if you want to increase your awareness at the same rate, but there are only so many blogs out there with actual readers. As you begin to drift away from the ideal guest blog locations, your returns necessarily diminish as you spend more time looking for sites, their relevance declines, and/or the readership of the blogs you find is lower."
- Again depends what industry your in.
Read the post again - is not what Carson said. Too lazy but not lazy enough to think twice before posting...
And SEOMoz is a community - the main point in a community is dialog and different opinions.
Let's assume that Carson said what you are implying that dosen't mean is the official stament of seomoz as a company - there are a lot of people writing articles here from within seomoz, associates and so on .. this dosen't mean everyone should say the same thing.
I love Guest blogging because its one of the most innovative ways in building online reputation and gaining visibility on the web. But not enough success tactics for getting ranking.
Why its fail
Most online professionals use guest blogging as link-building.
Use low quality content,
And other
I disagree with this statement that Guest posting is not worthwhile.
Previously I came to know that directories are no more effective, then i heard that article submission is not an effective way. Picking back links from same directories doesn't makes any sense, so we should move towards guest posting and after reading this post I got more confuse.(Because I always got benefit from guest posting).
This post is just making me confuse and not giving any better alternative.
I understand your confusion and when I read the title I was thinking the same thing! What the heck am I supposed to do as an SEO then!!!!. Read the entire article. He isn't ruling out Guest Blogging but suggesting we should use this only as a wider strategy not the ONLY strategy.
Exactly this; thanks. To those confused about what to do now, a more comprehensive strategy would be to come up with a content strategy, then push for exposure through every channel we can, as described at the end of the post.
I'm not sure how you managed to draw the conclusion that "guest posting is not worthwhile" from this article.
Carson didn't suggest that it's bereft of value - only that when it's used in isolation and scaled without a proper strategy surrounding it, it's not going to be as effective as when it's integrated within a wider content and promotion strategy.
in short - you can't just "Spam the hell out of guest posts" and expect that process to continually provide return.
Carson your article is just superb ,simply the best one and the best thing is that it actually explains what kind of guest blogging should be done to have an effective results. I am totally agree with you that doing a guest post with improper strategy and content is totally a worthless activity to perform.The biggest fact that now day especially after penguin update spammers had left no difference between guest blogging and article distribution. Means I just want to ask to those spammers what they really think what they are doing they are still working with the same strategy with a end goal of just having a couple of contextual links. Just the name of the strategy has been changed from article distribution to guest blogging. Its really funny isn't it.
Frankly speaking I still don't understand the value of links for the website.As i had never witness that quantity of links can make any change in the search ranking.I believe in acquiring the less but the best for my clients and it helps me a lot to achieve the desire goals my clients.
One thing I want to add here is that it is not really necessary to do guest blogging I personally recommend that what ever inbound strategy you do to acquire links just try to do the best you will definitely get what you are looking for (Success).
It's funny how a last name can go a long way...
let's just say enough is enough with this post
Thanks for the useful info from a newbie blogger!
Does anyone actually understand what this guy's on about?!!!
"I am not telling you to publish and wait. Links matter – that’s obvious. You can’t sit and wait, hoping that some white knight blogger is going to come along and raise your precious content out of obscurity. "
Links matter - OK - right yes I think we all knew that - that's why people do guest blogging right?
Anyhow - isn't that what he's doing??!!!!! LOL - (see his link at the bottom to Distilled!!!!)
I think in 3 words what he means is:
CONTENT IS KING
Well said Carson, guest blogging is an important strategy in SEO, but we should use it as a mean of information sharing rather than depending on it for link development and rankings. People who make use of guest blogging in excess and their sole purpose is to develop links are always on the losing side of the game.
Every other week there is someone telling us what not to do on SEO blogs. No one ever explains how to get the buy-in for the right way to do things. Please tell me HOW you get buy-in for link building that often gets 0 results. You tell your clients, 'ok, I'm going to spend 20 hours trying to get you a good link. I'll reach out and tell people about your content so they can link to it. You should make content that they actually want to link to, you know like some research, a calculator yada yada (content that costs thousands of dollars to make - because they'll do that right...).' You come back 20 hours later with nothing (VERY COMMON). How do you explain that? I'd rather spend 20 hours getting them 1 high quality guest post that often brings more Twitter followers, more RSS subscribers, more referral traffic and more visitors from organic traffic than 20 hours of 'I tried to get a free link without giving anything in return, but they said no.'
We all know great content is the heart and soul of SEO. Getting buy-in is the hard part.
"Try running display ads to content. Try bidding on low-competition informational keywords that you have great content to match."
Why on earth would you do that? That's what good long-tail keyword research is for. If you've got money to blow like that spend it on better content.
Sorry, guest posting is the only thing left. I'd stay away from any guest post networks to stay safe. I love myblogguest and blogger linkup, but if I was Google they'd be my first targets.
Solid post. Guest blogging is not a strategy but outsourced it can be a valuable fixed cost tool to help improve results. We are testing several guest blog outsourcing platforms and have had solid success. Thanks for the info....
To follow up my post above...
and..
...not to belabor the point or descend to ad hominem attacks....
...but the central issue here is the author's spectacular inability to convey his common sense, correct, and uncontroversial ideas in plain English.
We got it. And most here disagree with your statement. Sorry.
Jennita (and Rand)...
... I have yet to hear back from you about the allegation from StatusPeople that you both have a significant number of faked followers in your Twitter accounts.
I'm doing a blog post about this (and others).
I posted the details here:
https://www.seomoz.org/blog/guest-blogging-enough-is-enough#jtc192417
I'm uncomfortable asking about this here, but all other private channels are being ignored.
And I don't want to report about something in my blog about something based on allegations without a confirmation or denial.
Full disclosure: since my comments get edited and outright deleted here (usually several days after posting), I am taking screengrabs.
What an exasperating article. Sloppy thinking and sloppy writing combine to waste readers' time.
The article is so poorly written that I had to read it four times before I realized I mostly agree with the author.
The thesis is not clearly developed. One random provocative statement follows another as the author circles around the topic.
In the end, we get a statement of the obvious at inordinate length.
Along the way, we have to cope with silly charts and almost unintelligible passages like this:
We often get cornered into rote guest blogging when expected to solve their problems without interaction or support. Failure to communicate this fact; however, is not sufficient reason enough to head face first into the inevitable plateau of diminishing returns.
Great post. Makes you think.