Taken at face value, the interactions of people like Matt Cutts and Brian White on blogs, forums and social networks are fantastic. You can't expect to write a blog post or submit a thread about Facebook and have a high-ranking employee show up to correct a misconception or answer a question. Of course, Googlers can't and don't weigh in on everything, but the fact that they're there is awesome.
However, it's healthy to avoid taking everything at face value, and some people are better at that than others. A true Google fan will say that the information and advice dispensed by Google employees is dispensed 100% in good faith, that it is for our own benefit and that if we can trust anyone, we can trust a search engine worker. A true conspiracy theorist will say that every utterance from a big company employee's mouth, no matter whether that company be Google, Microsoft, Apple or the Bank of America, is filtered through a carefully-planned corporate agenda.
People read a lot into the public situations Googlers get involved in. The most recent debate surrounded whether Twitter had nofollowed users' profile page links because a Googler told them to. The public message Matt Cutts sent to Twitter co-founder Evan Williams linked to David Naylor's post on the subject of followed profile links and said that he's "dropped (Evan) an email" about it. According to Matt, he did not tell Evan to remove or nofollow those links, but only pointed out that Twitter could fall victim to spam attacks because of a PageRank-leaking loophole.
I haven't read the email Matt sent and it's likely that you haven't either. However, you'll undoubtedly have your assumptions about it. The conspiracy theorists will have you believe that Twitter was pressured into removing its users' links under threats of lost PageRank. The believers will tell you that Matt dropped in like a friendly genie to alert Evan of a possible problem. I envision that hypothetical email beginning with "Oh noes!"
In reality, it's probably going to be somewhere in the middle and I believe that goes for most of Google's interactions with the public. Search engines have long advised against linking to "bad neighbourhoods": we know both inherently and factually that linking to spam does not make a site look more trustworthy. However, it would seem that Twitter has little to gain from search engine rankings and that nofollowing those outbound links benefits Google and its use of PageRank more than it does a site whose growth hardly relies on search traffic. Then again, Google could just have easily discounted followed outbound links from Twitter. Given the ease with which they could have done this, surely Matt's actions could be seen as pretty philanthropic? It isn't as though Google hasn't turned off sites' ability to pass PageRank in the past.
I've speculated on both sides of the theory here, but I always end up in the middle again. Google offers advice for a number of reasons and one of those is good will. Another seems to be making its employees' lives easier. Take Monday's blog post about URL rewriting, which Rand covers here: I walked away from that article feeling that although Google would like to help webmasters avoid rewriting screw-ups, they're quite invested in the idea that we should make their lives simpler. A third reason behind some Google actions is also going to boil down to corporate agenda. It's doubtful that a company can become that big and successful without one.
People who write for Google have a responsibility to take the utmost care in the advice they give, and Monday's URL rewriting post somewhat neglects this responsibility. The post seems to look out for Google's interests more than it does the interests of website owners: it is misleading to experienced webmasters who knows how to effectively rewrite URLs... which they often do for purposes other than search engine crawling and ranking.
Nothing that comes out with a Google stamp on it, and nothing that Googlers say on their own time, is taken lightly. Matt can send Evan Williams a two-line email that says something along the lines of:
"Hey dude, those links from Twitter profile pages under 'Bio' are passing PageRank and there are some nasty spammers signed up to your site. It's going to show up badly on your outbound link profile. Catch you later."and it means a lot more than it says. Google doesn't have to threaten a webmaster with anything; a message like that is enough to spur action. Similarly, Google's publication of any material, including Monday's URL rewriting post, carries a lot of weight and usually shapes how webmasters conduct themselves and their businesses.
The conflict of interest happens when Google combines its interests as a company (in this case, easiest, most effective web crawling) with advice to webmasters. On Monday, it appears that commercial interests won out and Google dispensed less-than-ideal advice to an enormous community.
Google's employees know this, which is where goodwill and power come together. I am absolutely sure that the things I've seen Matt tell webmasters is imparted in good faith. Many of us have received great advice, clarification and information from Googlers. However, they know that they hold a huge amount of power. People who've been around this space for a fairly good amount of time will have seen the annoyingly polished, corporate-approved statements and posts. The language is deliberately chummy but ends up being condescending. We recognise this because we've also seen their genuine voices. We have seen them get pissed off and call us out.
I don't have my tin hat on. The title of this post is a bit sensational because I neither believe that the public-facing side of Google is a godsend or a controlled gimmick. I believe that you can rely on the advice you hear and read from search engines, especially from the ever-vocal Google, not to get your site banned, hurt your rankings or be deliberately detrimental in any way. However, always remember that they're going to misspeak and they're going to publish posts and comments that are in their own interest. They are also aware of their power, and so we should pay close attention to the meaning behind the messages we hear and find the middle ground between faithful servant and irate conspiracy theorist.
Thank you. I am one of those that almost always sees the good in communication from Google, but every once in a while I disagree or giggle at the simple lack of details. They hint a lot because they have to. With Matt at least you jsut have to learn to read between the lines. He has learned over the years what he can and cannot say. But I believe that his intent is not to be vague, but to be as helpful as he can.
I am also happy to see the other SEs starting conversations as well. Jeremiah Andrick has done a great job IMO. I can't wait to see what the MSFT team does in the future.
But like always, people mess up. That URL rewriting piece was confusing and misleading. People who have been doing this for a while get their point. But about 4 years ago I would have been working on redirects to put my sites back on dynamic. Newbies don't get the good review of what URL rewriting can do.
I am kinda hoping Google cleans up that boo-boo here soon.
Great one Jane.
Jeremiah and Nate are excellent. They respond to problems and are always willing to help. I'd be paying close attention to MSFT's moves in the public relations are because they're doing it really well lately.
How nice of both you and Kate. I am always open to feedback and we are trying to be as transparent as possible. Just let me know how I can help!
Jeremiah
Great comment about Matt Cutts and reading between the lines. I find that if turn on my "Google PR" filter when Matt speaks and I get a lot more out of what he says.
I just want to say something about the Twitter bio links: good riddance! Matt Cutts did Twitter users a favor by pointing out that PageRank leak. Before the link was nofollowed, more and more SEO-minded people were discovering that bio links passed PageRank. I will admit... I noticed it, and I added a link to seomofo.com. That is the extent to which I was willing to "take advantage" of the loophole. However, many spammers started taking their exploitation tactics way too far--to the point of negatively affecting everyone else's user experience! This is what I was seeing: 1.) Spammers create a Twitter account and put links to their sites in the Bio field. The spammer makes the profile as "attractive" as possible. 2.) Spammers set up a script that pulls other Twitter account URLs from the stream of public updates. 3.) Script allows the spammer's account to follow as many users as possible (tens of thousands). 4.) All the newly-followed Twitter users get notifications that someone is now following them. A percentage of those users also follow the spammer account in return. 5.) Spammer starts manufacturing massive amounts of meaningless updates, hoping that Google will crawl all those other users' profiles when they contain one of the meaningless updates. The more updates the spammer creates, the more (followed) internal links will be indexed by Google--links which boost the PageRank of the spammer's profile page, which then sends some of that PageRank through their Bio links. The end result was... Twitter users (especially users that have public updates) were constantly getting notifications of "new followers," and many of those users turned around and followed the spammer. Then the spammers flood Twitter with their bullshit updates, which eats up bandwidth that Twitter obviously can't afford to waste. I eventually made my Twitter account private... just because I was tired of getting followed by these "people" who had 300 followers and were following 50,000 people. Since the news broke that Twitter has closed up that leak... I've noticed a considerable drop in BS follow requests. So Matt... if you're reading this... thank you. You did the right thing.
I agree that taking away the Bio line's ability to pass PageRank was a positive move, taking into account that they had to do something quickly. At its worst, I would get ten spammy follwers in a day. In the future, maybe Twitter could consider returning followed links to genuine users, but I have no idea whatsoever about how tough that would be to determine and, on the flip side, to game.
There also seems to be a direct corelation between the end of the Bio following and the virtual elimiation of spammy followers.
From a Twitter user's point of view, it has improved the experience. 100% positive there, as I don't miss my profile link either. However, it also improved Google's life in that they weren't forced to deal with the PR leak anymore. One thing I don't understand is why Matt chose to do that in public. Why tweet that he'd emailed Evan? Does Evan not check his emails? Matt's advice would be just as important if he'd not let 4,843 followers know about it. What was the motive behind that? Does my tin hat flatter my outfit or no?
I think what I'm trying to say is that the fact that Google wanted Twitter to know about the indiscriminant distribution of PageRank is not nearly as interesting as how they chose to hint at it publicly.
i honestly think you are reading way to much into that and calling out Matt's slight mistake or lack of formality.. (not you personally in this example, it's already been done), but it's the same thing as me tweeting to @leeodden that soem of his links didn't work... i would have done it privately but he's not following me.. so i sent him a public tweet. agreed i don't have the followers mattcutts does.. but i'm just trying to help, which is what i think matt was doing, albeit he didn't think about the public nature of it.. a mistake i might add he does not make that often..
so someone threw him under the bus for it.. which i think is and un-intended consequence, but... well.. a mistake that got made public which he wont make again, me thinks.
Does my tin hat flatter my outfit or no? Maybe. Does your outfit look like this?
404 :(
Fine, I'll host the pic myself... but now I'm gonna photoshop your face onto it. (It used to be Nicole Kidman.) Take 2: Maybe. Does your outfit look like this?
I think some iteration of that should make it to Jane's avatar! Jane?
can't i give like 10 thumbs up to this reply?
(i am speaking about Darren's)
please?
(and not just for the rebecca avatar.. LMAO!)
=)
paisleyseo... I changed the avatar. Refresh the page to see it. Goodbye, Darrebecca... hello, Derrand.
LMAO... Eddie Izzard comes to mind..
sorry
(Ducks)
Hey Jane, I tried to give my take on the url rewriting post at https://sphinn.com/story/74522#c54232 but I'll repeat it here: "WayneSmallman, in my opinion what this post says is "We do a solid job on sites with dynamic parameters, and lots of people make mistakes when they try to rewrite their urls to look static, so you might want to try the dynamic parameter route because that can work quite well."
In essence, it's Google saying "We'll come to webmasters and the natural way to write dynamic parameters rather than asking you to rewrite everything as static if you don't want to." So we're trying to come closer to webmasters, not wanting webmasters to necessarily move toward us. If you already have a site and it's doing well the way that it currently is--great. In that case, you probably don't need to change anything. But if you're starting a new site, it's worth considering staying with dynamic parameters instead of doing large amounts of rewrites (which some webmasters do in unusual ways that don't always work well in search engines). That's my take, at least.
It's not like either choice would get you penalized in Google; all of this is just advice to give more information to webmasters when they're making their choice of site architecture."
To give a little more background, this was a post with some information that the crawl/indexing team wanted to get out there. They had seen a lot of badly-rewritten urls such as "www.example.com/article/bin/answer.foo/en/3/98971298178906/URL" where the webmaster would have done much better in Google if they had just stuck with dynamic urls. Given the difficulty of the subject, I actually thought Juliane and Kaspar did a very good job of taking what the crawl/indexing team wanted to get across and communicating that to the outside world.
I don't think Google will be able to nail every connotation on every post. But that's part of the beauty of talking more often on the blog or here or somewhere else online--we can stop by to clarify if we said something poorly or to give more background or context. I'd rather Google communicate a lot and sometimes need to clarify than not to communicate as much.
Great post Jane! Fair, balanced and informative.
Great post: I think one of the few posts I've ever read where I agree 100%. You fear them and respect them and love them all at the same time... and every word they write/say is analyzed to pieces.
Although I believe that Google, trough their employees, gives advices in good faith, I can't stop having that felling that some corporate interests may be present on those communications.
Nice post Jane ;)
As the one who recently won Google Fanboy nomination (not sure why nut I do prefer it to be fangirl btw :) ) I feel I should add my two cents here.
Google should be praized for choosing to be open alone. They do help and I frequent Google Webmaster Groups and see Googlers want to be really helpful sometimes. I can't imagine the pressure however, when each of their words is interpreted in numerous ways and each of their sentences is "read between the lines".
Should they be silent at all? That would be the only way to avoid misinterpretation, I guess but that wouldn't be for good either because due to them we know at least something.
But... to be completely fair, like Jane pointed out corretly, the latest post on URL design should have been written in a more careful and less misleading tone (Harith over at Sphinn discussion was right to point out that the authors of the original post are just not used to communicating with webmasters and if Matt Cutts or John Mueller had authored it, there would probably be much less confusion).
Google as a company embrace technology whereas many other search engines or companies owning them have a corporate culture that monitors and restricts employee participation with customers. Definitely a step above the rest.
I am sure others will disagree, but I for one am getting rather annoyed by goog these days... i feel like they are becoming the government of the internet... I miss the old days when no one held so much power...
have you ever heard of Internic?
how would you like to pay $150 for a domain name and there was only ONE place to get it...
now that sucked..
They only have the power the users give them. Same as our government.
Yahoo still doesn't even want to tell us the dates on which they've cached sites. I feel like the search engines that get less traffic should try and be even more open than Google is.
So you are telling me that the dynamic urls are not the best option like Google said? so you are telling me Googlers are letting their own personal blogs get page rank in the corporate official blogroll but nofollow other popular blogs and forums just because they don't trust the sources that they like to read everyday? By the way did you just imply in this post that Matt does not write the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God? OK it is early in the morning but I think the world just went upside down. Google is really evil?????
Thanks for making my morning. A true SEO is the one who can see through propoganda every single day
Mert,
All sarcasm aside, I don't think that is even close to what she is saying here. The point isn't that Google is evil; the point is that Google is a company built to generate revenue. The public comments, advice, and responses given by googlers are a fundamental function in continuing to strengthen their brand... to increase revenue. Take what googlers say in good faith, but don't be blinded by their 'kindness'. Realize that they do have an agenda and a bias but there isn't anything wrong with that. It doesn't mean they are evil. It means they are in business to make money so while they are helpful, it is part of a much bigger picture... that I for one think is friggen genius.
Cheers,
@trontastic
My entire comment was a sarcastic joke. Please donot take it seriously.
Lol... I can't understand who could have thumbed this down :)
Thank god there is someone who gets humor around here. Thank you, Ann. Thumbs up just for getting the joke.
Aww I got that you were being sarcastic, promise! Definitely not me who thumb't it down :)
I am glad the twitter profile links are nofollow now as I won't get in trouble with the swim team twitter account where I was posting cute pictures of happy swimmers after winning an event only to get twitter followers whose profile pages were way too adult. I was spending all my time blocking them before the parents found out when they checked out twitter just to see the picture of their child.
I have thought a lot about this.
Rand and the whole team @ the moz have a pretty good opportunity to hash and rehash statements or comments.
In Matt's case, anything he says, we, along with everybody else with a stake in search marketing is instantly dissecting every possible nuance like a bunch of sports casters the day after the game.
Matt can come back and comment or attempt to clarify but once it's out there it seems to go on with a life of it's own.
Like being the parent of several future lawyers. You have to be sure of not only what you're saying but how it's going to be heard.I wouldn't want the job personally.
But thanks Jane for another great post ;)
Hi Jane, good post.
I'd add to you article that Google's best advise comes, at least IMO, from yearly Summit and other conferences, like the E-tourism summit coming up in a week or so in SF.
Google often meets with the top 25 or so PPC big spenders and most of the advise Google gives these prestigous few is solid. I'm a believer that Google's top priority is "you rub my back, I'll rub yours" - translated, "you spend millions monthly in PPC, I help you with whatever you need."
The advise that Google employees give more of the "common folk," ;-) especially that from Matt Cutts, can be believed and followed when enough webmasters and marketing people test and agree to the ideas or advise being given. At least it seems that simple from what I've seen in the recent past, i.e. nofollow rules, reciprocal linking, duplication, etc.
This is a copy of the comment I put on the Google URL rewriting blog article.
Is someone fact checking these posts?
Google is more than a crawler. It also analyzes data and serves results. Just because something is okay for the crawler does not mean that the same will not affect the analysis and the serving of results. I read this as a blanket statement, but one that ignores URL analysis.
It is generally believed that the presence of a search query in a URL will boost relevancy and may affect the rankings of results. To my knowledge, Google has neither confirmed or denied this. However, if a Google Employee says that something is true and does not specify between crawling, analysis or serving results…or for any other part of Google’s processes…then it can only be regarded as a blanket statement for all purposes.
Some have pointed-out that this is a blog for developers. Even so, it cannot excuse Google. Google teaches search engine optimization to developers (ex. SMX Advanced). More importantly, the real audience here goes beyond developers and Google knows this.
I applaud that Google is perhaps the most open of the major search engines. I’d like to see even more posts about technical details like URL configuration. But please,
1) Fact check your articles with other relevant departments/areas/projects.
2) Specify for each - crawling, analysis or serving results.
3) If you put something out there, be responsible by responding to legitimate questions and clarifying misconceptions.
Hopeless requests... *sigh*
It would be naive to think that what Goolgers do online is not somehow business related. Would Matt Cutts blog about Google if he wasn't working there and getting other financial benefits from having Google perform well as a corporation? Would you blog about your employer unless you were paid for it? I mean common! Just take some time to look at Matt Cutts' online activity and you might even start wondering if it is always him behind the keyboard after noticing that the poor guy would not get any sleep if he was really doing all that. ;)
This has been the subject of much debate in our office (and we've basically covered the points everyone made above - except Darren's new penchant for face swapping).
There is one guy here who is a Google zealot, and refuses to believe that they (a) say anything that is untrue and (b) they will be around FOREVER.
Needless to say I put forward the point that as a company they have to consider their corporate goals, and while the people in charge now are I believe, genuinely concerned about how data is used, someone else could take over tomorrow and Google could go to the dark side.
The key point is to keep your eyes open - even if you think Google is the DB's at least remember that not every word that spills from their lips if philanthropic - they're chasing the Yankee dollar just like we are after all!
Oops, I clearly meant 'never say anything that's untrue' - curse my crappy PC and it's daily crashes. Please amend that comment and delete this one :P
I wouldn't really say Google is that open about things. They still ban people from Adsense and feel no obligations to give an fear explonation. And unless your making them lots of money throught adsense or Adwords, there is no way in hell they'll give you support on anything! You would be lucky to even get an automated mail..
That's not really true. They don't have to offer all the content they do on their blog and webmaster central (which is free) and on the adwords keyword research tool (also free) and now even offering real data in numbers. They don't have to but they do. I'd say that's being a little open.
Jane,
I think you are totally right,
There are mixed messages. And Google isn't stupid, PR is crucial to them. (but not in the "google is evil" way)
Matt Cutts by the nature of his being a public persona, must be vague at times, if he started to leak everything about google, then google would have to fight spam every day MORE than they do already. I'm amazed that they are as public as they are. Also, i don't want Matt Cutts following me on twitter either..
(here matt, i found another way to pull rank, please by all means talk to george the engineer and have him filter it out.. [inside google joke])
I think the twitter thing was blown completely out of proportion and have lost respect for the people that harp on it and continue to try and increase their visibility by google bashing.
It's just like me sending a tweet or something to you guys because i found a dead link, etc.. a helpful note on a corrective measure.that's all.
or a DNSLOOKUP from an alternate source becuase you guys are having DNS issues, or getting a twitter password, help a friend out, earn my celestial karma points and move on. =)
the url re-write thing.. based on my experienced assumptions, is allowing google to find how the urls are parsed and displayed so they can learn the pathways to being able to filter duplicate content in e-commerce and CMS systems.. first we have Google posts about "don't worry about duplicate content" then we have "URL re-writes" in other words, let it flow so they (GOOG), can modify the algo to filter it out, where needed.
google isn't posting this step to help you or webmasters, they post it to continue their quest to give searchers the most relevant results for their queries, (which is why they are 80% of domestic search), they measure this in bounce rate, which in itself is a complex measurement of a cookie (KW, KW ranking, URL auth, time on site, pages viewed, exit path, and a few more things), which is attributed to either a gmail ID, unique session ID (another cookie, or two depending on browser), or an IP address.
@BrentDPayne and I figured this out when he sent me a link and it showed HIS IP and HIS location for the link to me because of the way i was bleaching Google cookies.
(i know, @brentdpayne is even more scared of me now.. but no worries bud, i'm on your side. )
oh.. btw.. did you know the Chicago Tribune has excellent resources on Barak Obama?
LOL, damn I love you! You seriously crack me up on a daily basis. Love the link love (though it's nofollowed).
See, this is how Twitter is helpful people. It creates relationships!
Payne
yeah.. but the URL is still spidered and indexed.
Not by Google :)
"There's no stigma to using nofollow, even on your own internal links; for Google, nofollow'ed links are dropped out of our link graph; we don't even use such links for discovery."
Unless you're talking about pictures, in which case Google thinks the linked-to image is embedded on the page.
Good post. Good reminder. I agree with you, somewhere in the middle.