How do we know who to believe? How do we sort through the hearsay and report findings based not on alchemy, but instead on real science?
Well luckily, here at the MOZplex, we have quite the arsenal of tools up for the job.
Thanks to our users, we have amassed an impressive amount of historical rank data for domains.
We can use this data by comparing it to live Page Rank information. The difference in these numbers provides us with a point that we can use to start turning lead into gold (unless of course your page sank, then its still lead). And now on to the brass tax, our findings...
These tests were run on 10/24/2007 between 3pm and 10:32pm PST
- 32,856 domains surveyed
- 0 experienced a gain in Page Rank
- 1,264 experienced a drop in Page Rank
- 31,592 experienced no change in Page Rank
- 0% gained Page Rank
- 3.8% lost Page Rank
While this isn't really at all that encouraging, it doesn't really seem as bad as some made it out to be... We then caught wind that there would be a second round of "adjustments," so we re-ran our tests.
This occurred on 10/29/2007 between 12:19pm and 5:28pm PST. This time around we found that a great number of pages experienced a page rank increase.
- 5,499 pages gained in toolbar PageRank
- 1 page jumped 6 points
- 4 pages jumped 5 points
- 35 jumped 4 points
- 211 jumped 3 points
- 1,054 jumped 2 points
- 4,194 jumped 1 point
- 9,527 pages experienced a drop in rank this time.
Any other observations, additional data, or questions are more than welcome.
NOTE FROM RAND: Just as an FYI - while we collect a lot of cool data like this, we'll only ever use it in the aggregate. We DO NOT use our collected data for competitive analysis, to give us ideas, or to "out" any specific sites for their actions and won't do so in the future. However, we will try to provide lots of nifty data like the above from Mel as major changes happen in the engines.
My personal opinion is that based on the data we see and shared, the first rollout of TBPR data was very clearly an effort to devalue or discriminate against those sites selling links that Google felt were intended to manipulate rankings, while the second change (approx. 48 hours later) was a traditional updating of visible toolbar PageRank data.
I'm not sure why, but this post read a little "24" to me:
The following tests were run between 3pm and 10:32pm.
BEEP. BOOP. BEEP. BOOP.
"Damnit, Chloe, we're dropping Page Rank, and we're dropping it fast!"
Something to note as well is the sample selection process may be flawed -
members of this site are people who are actively optimizing their websites, and therefore more likely to test some of the boundaries of Google's terms of service guideline.
To get valid numbers, websites which aren't operated/influenced by search engine optimization professionals would likely need to be included in the sample as well.
NewMediaist - Don't forget, though, that while a lot of the individual domains that are checked are going to be "aggressive" optimizers, the KW Difficulty Tool, source of most of our TBPR data, is actually just collecting the top 10 ranking pages/sites from Google & Yahoo! for particular terms, so that data should be much more balanced (though chances are it siwngs heavily commercial since most queries folks are researching have monetary incentives behind them).
Please note that the Moxplex doesn't really look like that. We only have 12 Blade Servers, not 24.
Did you find any correlation to suggest that Google was detecting paid links compared to detecting them being sold thorugh a particular market-place?
Also these 2 updates were really the 2nd and 3rd - the 3rd update was really strange with the datacentres sometimes reporting 4 different PageRank's for root domains.
Data based upon market sector would be interesting
Andy - we purposely DID NOT go through the 1294 sites that lost PageRank in the first update (the penalty update), feeling that doing so or reporting on potential networks would be an abuse of our data. It would be cool to know, though...
Thanks for sharing. It's great being able to look at a group of numbers, even if it still represents a mere drop in the bucket... at least it's a drop.
Pure speculation at this point, but based on looking at some sites where the home page has remained steady, but some interior pages have dropped a little, and others where a site and competitors have seen a slight drop, and in general probably little to no paid linking, I can't help but wonder whether there is also a bit of tweaking in general of the PR rating, perhaps tightening things up a touch, a little more critical measure of all links in general, not just penalizing paid links, in essence, raising the value of PR.
Again though, it is way too early to really determine anything, especially while the focus on paid-links may be clouding the bigger picture. And as the use of nofollow, even for own-site PR flow control, has increased, it may be clouded even more.
I agree. While paid links may have been a part of this, many sites, some of my own, have lost virtually all page rank without a single paid link or free directory link anywhere. Of course, I don't care so much about that because I don't sell links and PR really has very little value to me (SERP are still fine), but still there was a drop for some reason other than paid links or link farm influence.
Thanks Mel, for the details information on PageRank update.
At the time of PageRank update I have 5 main websites all had a PR 5 and after PR update PR of all sites were deducted from 5 to 3. There is no any paid links.
While I have a 15 new websites all are launched before 3 months and all websites got PR 3.
I found lot of websites those site never sell any link or never paid for link still their PR deducted.
Great use of aggregate data. This is real value for us - since there is no way we could see it across this kind of scale. Thanks for the research.
Mel - Greatly appreciate your work on grabbing and sorting through all this data. Hope you don't mind my re-formatting of a bit of your sentence structures and grammar :)
What I like about this data is that the sample size is large enough (around 60K pages and 32K domains) that we get a real sense of what percentage of sites/pages gained and lost TBPR during the updates.
I'd love to see more of this kind of data on the blog.
I like the added value of using the comunities collected data for further research.
I didnt realise the sample size would be so large.
Thanks for the data
Thinking out loud here....
Over the last few weeks there's been a lot of talk about PR and the perceived correlation between paid links and drops in PR. Between the comments there are always a few people that say something like "yeah, our PR dropped two points, but the SERPs are still ok". We are seeing the same thing in sites that we have a specific interest in.
This seems positive proof that the relationship between PR and rankings is not very big. But, thinking about the bigger picture, you could also wonder about the reasoning behind the 'penalty round'. Some websites experience a major drop in PR, but they still rank roughly the same for the words/phrases they're targeting!? Why?
IMHO, this is a money issue. Google does not want to hurt the traffic towards these websites per se (hence the SERPs that remain similar), but wants to hurt the companies selling links. All this fud about penalties connected to paid links before the changes in PR, the upheaval during the update and the subsequent realisation that Google actually does something must be costing a lot of people money.
Especially the websites that sell links which experienced a drop of multiple points must be feeling this where it hurts because many paid links schemes are directly connected to PR. Suddenly their links are worth a lot less, but he, the SERPs are still fine....
I think this recent TBPR rollercoaster was where I realized that as much as I love SEO, it's not my passion for life. Because, frankly, I couldn't summon up much excitement about it. I just kept picturing a roomful of Google engineers, rolling around on the ground laughing hysterically at everyone's (premature) attempts to figure out what happened.
Still, the stats are interesting, and it would be neat to see what really happened behind the scenes. Also, I think you just coined a new eggcorn with brass tax. Way to go!
GTPR is a Pandora Box.
I do have to applaud you guys for coming out with this data. As much it is a controversy, again you are showing that SeoMoz is a leader, everyone else just following on your tail with GTPR discussion.
Amazing, it's interesting to see how everyone else is effected by the last PR updates. Even with that said, I can't help but think that visable PR is nothing more than a number as I have one client that just reached #1 for a very competitive keyword after they lost a point in PR... (maybe the competitors simply took bigger hits)
Great post and thanks for the information.
Excellent aggregate data. Thanks for the effort.
For several months, we at HTML4SEO has done thousands of SEO audits over the Google SERP. In each one were harvested the Pagerank, the number of backlinks and the HTML content for the 100 first of the Google SERP. Based on these results, we have published a short statistical study (without any pretention), which brings some conclusions based on real facts. What do you think about these results ?
https://www.html4seo.com/seo-pdf/google-pagerank-serp-statistics.pdf
Mel, thanks for crunching the numbers and providing some insight into these changes. The agregate data you guys put forward helps us all in the industry. Maybe the web was just getting a little too big and google needed to shift the decimal place a few to the right....
Interesting and yet scary to think that Google has such control and little (read no accountability).
Rand, i reckon some research around sites that were penalised to see the relationship between the site and either paid link selling sites or to the % weight of paid links contained on their site would be cool to see....
My blog went from a PR0 to a PR4 during last week's pagerank update - jump might have been unrelated to the algo change though
There is a 6 months lag in GTPR.
I noticed a lot of my newer sites with PR0 went up to PR4. Several sites dropped many stayed the same. The ones that went from 0-4 had very few links at all and it seems the gap between going to 4-5 has widened even further.
The data is definatly intresting though. I am glad I never bothered trying to generate pagerank in order to earn an income off it.
I think it's just an algo update. Here's what I've noticed: I have five sites, only two of which I have time to keep up with. Those two both kept their page rank, and I saw a jump in the number of incoming links: as if Google approved a whole bunch all at once (so I expect a page rank adjustment upwards next time around). The other three all lost rank--and by this I mean they experienced a one or two point loss--because their pages are incomplete and they're all stagnant. It makes sense to me. They were all PR 4 to start with. I'll let you know next time around if I was right about the expected PR adjustment upward for the two active sites. :)
Does anybody have any data on what the link "selling" marketers are doing? Do they even care? I haven't noticed any text ad brokering sites changing their rates...money is money and links are still links I guess.
There is a possibility that Google ranked some websites Page Ranked Manually too, because not all the sites that experienced drop in page rank are selling links.
ZeMMoZ,
That could very well be the case. During the first drop not every page that lost ground in ranking was selling links. From the sampling that we had, the ones that lost the most ground were.
-Mel
Aahhh, the infamous Google hand job!
You are contradicting yourself Dude!
You make this statement then you back track.
"My personal opinion is that based on the data we see and shared, the first rollout of TBPR data was very clearly an effort to devalue or discriminate against those sites selling links that Google felt were intended to manipulate rankings, while the second change (approx. 48 hours later) was a traditional updating of visible toolbar PageRank data."
A statement like this is nothing more than guess work and not factualy based.
That's why it's his "personal opinion." Contradictory? I think not. Re-read the quote.
Igor - that note comes from me, hence it's preceeded by "NOTE FROM RAND." Also - I'm in agreement with Scott, I can't see how this contradicts anything?
Rand unless you have replicated Google PR algorithm, or you got some privy information from a little bird, how can you assertain from your statistical sample of 5 Websites that all 1,264 in the population of the downgraded Websites were downgraded based on sellling links?
And if you did find the formula to the Google's fountain of youth, tell me where to sign, so I can have access to such data.
Hey, good post - I like your writing style.
That's a lot of good information you are sharing.
What happens when Google starts penalizing sites that it views as link sellers? It's apparent that their TBPR algo is flawed when it comes to identifying link sellers, and it surely will remain so if the penalties start...Penalizing link sellers is the obvious next step. I'm surprised this has gotten so little speculation so far.
Pretty much what I've been seeing too on this side of the pond
Great post! So much data, so little time....
I was wondering if anyone's noticed a drop in reported inlinks at Google. Our site dropped about 50% in reported links (that's using the link: operator), though Webmaster Tools still has good numbers, and no appreciable drop.
Could it be the Google's discounting links from paid directories?
I never trusted googles link operator - its a pity though if I have to resort to yahoo to record my backlinks ;-(