What's up, YOUmoz! Ok, enough small talk. I'll get right to the point.
I have a 2-page website that I created for the sole purpose of having something to link to from my SEOmoz profile page. My site doesn't really do anything or provide any useful information, but I use it to experiment on sometimes. Over the past 3 months, I've written several YOUmoz posts that include links to my site with the anchor text World's Greatest SEO. I chose this phrase because it amuses me... plus it has virtually zero search traffic, and therefore, zero competition. In other words, simply using that phrase in my home page's title tag was enough to get into Google's top 10. After a couple of my YOUmoz posts linked to it, I easily grabbed the #1 spot in Google.
As you might have guessed, my incoming traffic immediately exploded off the charts and set a new record for bandwidth consumption.
Times were good. But then I got greedy. I added the phrase [worlds greatest seo] to my SEOmoz profile page in an attempt to also conquer the #2 spot in Google.
Unfortunately, my plan backfired as my SEOmoz profile took over the #1 spot and bumped my site to #2. I tried to undo the damage by removing the phrase from my profile page, but it didn't work. Google still ranked it as #1, claiming that some keywords only appeared in links pointing to the page. So basically, my profile page has enough PageRank to outrank my own site, despite the fact that it didn't even contain that phrase in the content anymore. In other words, this is what I was looking at:
My Site
- PR 0
- Exact phrase used in Title, Description, H1, and paragraph content.
- Exact match anchor text in links from several YOUmoz posts.
- Ranked #2
SEOmoz Profile
- PR 4
- Exact phrase not used anywhere on page. Only the words "SEO" and "greatest" appeared on page. "World's" didn't appear at all.
- Also had at least one exact match anchor text link from YOUmoz.
- Ranked #1
Now keep in mind that both these pages are mine and I love them both... but my SEOmoz profile is kinda like a stepchild to me, you know? I mean c'mon... I built my site from scratch, using nothing more than a text editor and Photoshop. And now my SEOmoz profile thinks it can just show up and take the #1 spot away from my baby? Ha... not on MY watch, you spoiled little brat!
Anyway... I did what any loving parent would do: I nurtured my own child's success...by secretly beating my stepchild. How? By keyword-stuffing the living crap out of my SEOmoz profile! Everyone knows that stuffing a page with keywords is bad...so I decided I would TRY to get my profile page penalized for keyword stuffing so that my baby could rise to the top, where it belongs!
Well... the results are in, and I think they're interesting. Basically, it didn't work. My SEOmoz profile is still ranked #1, despite the fact that it has a ridiculously-high keyword density.
I'm not going to make any claims or assumptions about whether or not Google penalizes pages with unnatural keyword densities. My only point of writing this post is to share an interesting find. I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions.
Strong parental instincts are a beautiful thing.
(Note to self: Don't leave the kids with Darren).
Might be better said: Don't leave stepchildren with Darren.
;-)
Wonder what Darren treats kitties and puppies? LOL
The only conculsion I'm drawing is that you have way too much time on your hands and need to put the mouse down, back away from the keyboard and go get drunk.
To be fair, this did actually make me LOL (no, really): good work.
Awesome post...I'm incredibly new to the world of SEO, so it's awesome that somebody has taken something that I've wondered about and has turned it on its head.
And BTW, Darren, your Low Priority Page made me spit out my coffee...
You should have titled the post "The invincible power if SEOmoz links" :) Google just can't suspect a page belonging to this domain to do anything wrong... Keep trying!
or unless the page name ends with .0 :)
Very interesting.
Great post.
Double thumbs up! (Ok, I'm doing the double thumbs up.... I didnt click the thumbs up twice)
Does it worry you that Yahoo thinks Sean should be on page one for Worlds Greatest SEO?
In other news, google thinks your Low Priority Page is the best out of 4,420,000 searches.
@Rishi... Actually... I used to have a link to Sean's page from seomofo.com, which was the result of this conversation. I have since removed it, but maybe Yahoo! is still convinced that Sean is a contender for WGSEO status? Regarding my Low Priority Page... it has actually generated legitimate traffic from Google, which I find hilarious. These are the 4 search phrases I've ranked for so far: [google indicates my xml warning] [google search low priority] [sitemap page priority] [what is <priority>0.1</priority>] The sad part is... every single one of those has an on-site time of 0:00 and a bounce rate of 100%. That just goes to show how truly low-priority that page really is--it takes the average person less than one second to abandon it. LOL!
This is one of the funniest SEO posts that I have ever read. I really enjoyed the tone and how you demonstrated that an SEOmoz profie page outranked your own site.
Hope to see more like this.
Thanks!
Hello Darren,
Another very interesting post from you. Keep up this for some more time and I think I will have 'The Legend of World's Greatest SEO' to tell to my grand children.
Anyway Thumbs Up!
So wait... who is the Evil Empire? Microsoft? As long as this story ends with me dueling someone with a light saber, I'll be happy. =)
The SEMpire strikes back.
Great post.
@Rishi... LMAO!
you've just got to convince Cuil now ;)
https://www.cuil.com/search?q=worlds+greatest+seo
Yikes. That's actually the first time I've ever seen Cuil. Despite the laughable "Google-killer" rumors that lasted for like a day, I never even bothered to check it out for myself. If I'm not #1... then clearly their algo is flawed. ;)
I thought you may enjoy that! I cant see it in the UK yet...
My Client "Amy Winehouse" has instructed me to issue you with a warning Darren - STAY AWAY FROM "Worlds Greatest Role model" it's hers!!
Anyway, nice post mate!
Kel
I am not so sure I would boast Amy Winehouse is one of your clients... :P
Whatever, Rishil... you're just jealous cause Amy and I are like *this* [crosses fingers]
Ha! Stop letting my secrets our of the bag. And stop flirting with me you dumbass.
LMAO! Damn... -6 votes for that comment? But no one had a problem with me calling SEOs superior to SEMs? [shrugs] What a weird industry.
And they say SEO's are sexist. Everyone voted you down cause you were being rude to a lovely lady :) LMAO.
lol, great post, Darren. And well done ranking number 1 for something we all wannabe, the world's greatest SEO, with a page with PR0. When I look you up on Google I get your baby number one and the ugly stepchild as number 2. The Sphinn story is in 6th place and this post doesn't show up at all (probably because it's the same domain as your profile).
What I like most is your "modesty" :) You've got that touch of humor that allows you to be incredibly cocky and self promoting and getting away with it. Thumbs up :) and thanks for humoring us.
ps. I'm searching Google from Iceland, btw.
I too am sitting here laughing at this entire conversation. When I started at the top of the page reading responses Darren was ranked at #2 ... by the time I've reached the end here ... he's back at #1. Those spiders are really moving today ...
Rebecca posted a funny screenshot ... love the SEO ad for $25/month. Haha. That's like 10 minutes of my time. I almost want to send a site to them to see what they try and do! It's probably good ol' Pinky Patel up to their old tricks ...
Late to the party... but I think its worth running a parallel experiment for the same terms, but using nofollow links.
I have a suspicion that despite G's statements on no follows, there is some discovery going on.
I think I will target the same keywords, to see whats going on, so for those of you whose blogs I comment on, please excuse the intentional anchor text :P
I don't think your on twitter...but I asked a bunch of people about this. I said, 'what the heck is Darren doing with his profile' and no one knew. Thanks for revealing what you were doing cause I was like WTH, is this guy crazy!?!? In reply to your post. You know that PageRank is to websites as trust is to friendships. If you trust someone a lot...they can BS something (assuming you don't know the topic) and you'll believe them. Although it's not great...it happens. Google 'trusts' SEOmoz.com, it's PR 6 (last time i checked). Google doesn't trust your website. Not many links, etc, etc. And before you know it. I bet you 10 dollars (I'll pay ya, if you win) but I'll beat archshrk's website for (worlds bestest seo) with my profile before this time next monday. (Aug. 25th, 5:40pm pst)
This YOUmoz is #2 already for 'Worlds bestest SEO' Haha! I didn't see that coming!!
Google likes you Darren. What the heck! Talk about a crazy side effect.
Hmm. 3 days. Darren, how you want your money? Seriously. (I'll send ya 10$ USD) I'm a man of my word...and it's looking like I lost. This freaking post is #3, not fair...with my profile no where in sight...
Either way. Message me, I'll send ya the check.
Interesting observation. Wonder how long it'll stay up there. Is Big Brother Matt watching now.
In the meantime, figure out a way to leverage that PR for viagra sales ;)
You should go buy https://www.worlds-greatest-seo.com it's available, either make it it's own page and point it at your home page with anchor text or 301 it to your other domain to see what happens. I bet that will bump SEOMoz profile page out eventually, especially if you get some anchor text from other sites to point at it.
I see this happen all the time with magazines, I'm surprised how many magazine companies don't buy their domain with the name of their magazine followed by magazine.com. Even adding the dash would help. Google knows who the bigger magazines are via all the anchor text that point at them, but the smaller guys don't seem to have a clue.
It's low hanging fruit, but it helps. This probably should be filed under Headsmacking tips...
I think to really disadvantage your step child you need to pepper in some "buy viagra" "play poker online" "discount drug" style phrases into your profile.
Oh fo sho! This fight ain't over yet. I'll leave my current profile up for a few days... until the traffic/interest from this post dies down. Then I'll kickoff Round 2 by beating that bastard profile page with a whole new arsenal of weapons.
Nice experiment: it shows the power of trusted sites vs. the invisibles.
Such power has privileges, too... an eye can be closed on minor spammy tricks.
Do they work? I prefer to say that the site works DESPITE such tricks.
Maybe your site wasn't strong enough to beat a penalized SEOmoz profile page... :)
Nice article. Perhaps with the penalty the seomoz profile still has enough clout to beat out you pr0 page.
Hi Darren,
Love your blog. I never lol when reading, but I had everyone in the office looking at me like I was an alien this morning. Love the step child bit, but the piece was very informative too.
Keep up the good work.
Also - Go G.B. 17th Gold this morning in the Star.
Darren Darren. Tisk tisk
Keep up the good work. I tried to get your seomofo.com website a .edu link. Watch out for that. :)
Better now? =)
Well, it's not that you changed the content. It's really 'what are you trying to do'?
Shoemoney spoke about how he bought a domain with thousands of inlinks (when he bought it) and then changed the entire content [was shoes and then to bikes] and Google instantly banned them since it was such a dramatic change.
If your trying to do that testing...then....watch out (if this is your main website/source of revenue...)
If not. Throw up mortgages or something, do more testing, I'm enjoying it and I'm sure the rest of us are. :)
*Note: Rebecca was like 'we dont know what Darren is going to do next' at the SEOmoz seminar 08'.* [Her connotations was 'this is exciting'; Yes, Rebecca]
I wasn't actually experimenting at all with that empty page... I was having issues with combining 2 hosting accounts into one. I put up that blank page to test the new FTP configuration, but it didn't work, so I emailed the host company about it and went to sleep. When I woke up... the hosting company had fixed the problem and my awesome test page was up. Good thing you mentioned it though... cause my browser was pulling my site from the cache, so I was oblivious. Thanks for the heads up. =)
I see. No problem man.
This actually made it to the main blog! Fan-flippin-tastic. Even more bloody linkjuice your way Darren.
It's the power of SEOmoz - and an example of how wacky things can be. (and one of the things that really appeals to me).
Love to use this as an example in the SEO class I teach. Can I, Darren, uh-uh-uh?
Thanks!
Hmm... does that mean I'd get a .edu link to my site? ;) Either way... feel free to use this as an example.
Sorry, no .edu link but the heartfelt thanks of students! Thanks a bunch :)
when I checked the SERPS your seomofo site did indeed come up first but much more importantly...
According to one of the ads showing on the result, peachseo has found a new engine! Apparently this cutting edge firm (who the hell is peachseo anyway) can get you...and I quote the headline of the ad:
'noticed on Googol'
Holy crap! They even have a phone number in there. I think we should all call for their "fast, prompt, $99 SEO make over."
All hail the worlds greatest SEO! Funny post, I'm still chuckling...trying to keep my 'office straight face' so that people think I'm working on very serious matters... I think the keyword density list was the highlight..
I say edit your profile back to what it was BEFORE the experiment and enjoy the low volume visitors. Since now you will dominate #1 and #2 slot. You get like 50% chance they are gonna click on you.
So, dump the experiment cause it's completed...i think.
Absolutely hilarious! Thanks for the actual LOL :)
Interesting experiment, I am interested to see how this plays out
I wonder how easy it would be to take that title from you...
Introducing the World's Bestest SEO. "Just an average guy who got the bug to blog and found the community aspect far more enjoyable."
Do you mean that I'm the Worlds bestest seo? :)
I'm doing Darren's Experiment. Kinda. ;)
haha! your page just dropped because of the forum post YOU made for 'worlds bestest seo'
Dude. If your seriously trying to rank for it, I'll stop.
I'm just having fun. If your going to go through and link build and such, I'll concede. I don't care. lol. Just let me know, dang... no need to seriously link building.
I agree with a couple of people above. Go for Viagra on your profile and see if that gets your profile removed from Google.
Brent
To bad it's impossible to isolate the cause and effect of different factors. Otherwise I would propose that we link to seomofo.com from all of our PR 1 backwater blogs just to see what happens. There must be hundreds of those represented by Youmoz readers.
The question to the answer would be "How many quality links from low powered sites does it take to out rank a page on a highly trusted domain?"
Being SEOs to one degree or another we should all be able to craft nearly ideal editorial links.
Thousands.
Thumbs up on this Darren,
Hmm... perhaps a couple more competing sites might make this even more fun </evil grin>
I don't know, Lindop... such a competition might have negative consequences. Did you see the traffic spike in that Google Analytics picture? It's all fun and games until someone needs a load balancer.
You got worldsgreatestseo.wordpress.com !
I can see you're not playing games here... count me out. I'm not coming between a man and his mission.
Ha ha! No... that's actually not my handiwork. I don't know who set that up... but they abandoned it shortly thereafter. BTW... have you checked the results lately in Google? =)
Great post. My theory is that Google assigns Pagerank entirely at random because it hates SEOs and wants to drive us all crazy. I've written on this very topic (SEO is Insanity) if you're interested.
Nice post, and a brilliant "low-priority-page" on your site :-D
Finally your baby took the lead. Do you see that Darren? I see it in Chicago.
I see the www.seomofo.com at no1 place here in India too for the query, world's greatest seo.
Congrats Darren!
but now accoring to Yahoo Site Explorer SEOMofo has 13 links (2 from seomofo.com, And outside links include links from trusted domains in seo like mattcutts.com (screenshot), bruceclay.com) itself, while Darren's user profile page has only 8 links.
So in one way or other Matt Cutts was involved here. That guy takes quality of Google Search Results very seriously it seems!
YES! Back at one, congrats.
HAHA, check out #2...
SEOmoz | Darren Slatten's Member ProfileApr 26, 2008 ... worlds greatest seo worlds greatest seo worlds greatest seo worlds greatest seo worlds greatest seo worlds greatest seo worlds greatest seo ...
Hey guys, I still see Darren at 3 here in India. Has it become a daily contest or what?
This post is interesting. Good experiment Darren, though we cannot outsmart google with a single factor.I think you need to act more evil towards your gifted stepchild to beat it.Keyword stuffing alone may not be sufficient.
I would also like to point out a website that continues to get huge traffic, no.1 ranking for most of their posts despite too many keyword stuffed anchor links pointing to the same post - https://mydigitallife.info/
What do you guys say about it?
Darren,
congratulations - I see you're back on top. I've seen so much spam ranking high lately without Google doing s*it about it, I'm tempted to do it myself. I think I'll start with the client I dislike the most and see what happens. Either way, I win. :)
Anyone else see the sponsored result on that page? That made me laugh about as much the post.
I don't see any sponsored results. :(
I got a variety of this :)
He even beat out the World's Greatest Guy. LOL
Maybe since all the "regular" SEOs are preoccupied with SES San Jose... now's my chance to get on the front page of Sphinn! Quick, everyone, Sphinn this!
How interesting, and a basic observation would be, to wonder how often google index's the different pages.
What an interesting test, well played. At the time, yahoo is showing 332 inlinks to seomofo.com. You shooting for 1000?
Well, I guess you've succeeded in the end..your baby is back on top..While the prodigal step child has been relegated back to #2.
Really interesting experiment..
Now try posting a comment on a very popular blog that uses a "recent comment" section. Ouch!
Some of my client's competitors use keyword stuffing that makes me want to puke when I read it. Yet they are ranking extremely well for competitive keywords. They also have a strong social signal which i suspect was all paid shares. Go Figure. It's borderline readable so I guess they found that grey line.
Really nice post. There are still so many companies for whom SEO means keyword stuffing and not only they still get away with it but also rank their sites on the top. They don't care what's LSI or how Google uses its supernatural "artifical intelligence" to rank a website for a particlar keyword...
The keywords stuffed pages fail to rank when the Search Engines get confused becuase the stuffing is done with too many keyword variations. My experience says that theme based keyword stuffing still works quite well.
What doe you mean by theme based keyword stuffing? How does google identify the difference?
By theme based stuffing I mean don't stuff a page with more than 3 keyword variations. You can get away stuffing a page targeting 'sports car' with - 'white sports car', ferrari sports car, 'sports car engine'.
But if stuff the page with 'ferrari engine', 'sports car', 'white car', 'engines', 'lamboghini' etc, the theme of the page will get diluted and Search Engines will get confused and hence here will be no benfit of stuffing the page.
Great,
Check out my earlier comment. A website that continues to get huge traffic, no.1 ranking for many of their posts despite too many keyword stuffed anchor links pointing to the same post - Eg: https://mydigitallife.info/
The page is stuffed with keywords that people use to find the page from search engines.So how do you think google treats this? Since the search engine is shown the same keywords (all variations), for which it directed a user to that page, can we assume that this is theme based stuffing and works well, though there seem to be too many?
Ha! I love it.
The problem you may be running into is one of authority. SEOmoz, for obvious reasons, commands a great deal of authority for SEO-related search phrases. The domain as a whole has such relevance that one instance of keyword stuffing won't show up on the radar. Heck, if a site is big and relevant enough, the big G will simply disregard black hat tactics rather than deny the site from their users, which may be happening here.
This was 7 years ago. How is it now?
great, i have same experince with DIGG, basically i post half part of my post on digg and full story on my personal website, but digg was out ranking me by margin. i think it is to do with the page and website strength,
by the way i just check the result for
World's Greatest SEO in google and your website is not on even first page and seomoz has fisrt three positions
great work
What country are you in?
I can see him in the UK results no problem.
thanks....yeh i can see i think my search setting wa .com i am in UK as well
Yeah, I'm also curious what country you're seeing that result in... particularly the part about seeing 3 results from the same domain?
You're back at #1 where I am ... Kelowna, BC, Canada!
Shit...sorry, my comment now dropped you to number three in the search results...man Google spiders SEOMoz fast!
Interesting...
Dude - buy links with that anchor text then report back to us.
If we assume that Keyword Density does not play a major role in a modern search engine algo, it's not surprising that your SEOmoz page did not get penalized.
This proves the power of trusted sites and how much google loves them that it will even ignore small mistakes on there part.
Actually this just goes to show how filtering works or the fact that a page can be spammy somewhat but as it is the best authority still rank at the top.
Nothing new here!
I'm glad you didn't come to any conclusions about this in your blog post. A good move.
So this surprises the SEO industry? Please tell me exactly why. Thanks.
If anyone thinks Google scurries around to find stuffed "profile" pages on a SEO social site and then penalizes those stuffed profile pages for terms NO ONE would want to search on anyway, you all are silly.
But; I guess this is news, Huh?
Oh be quiet...
I'm glad you didn't come to any conclusions about this in your blog post. A good move. Why was that a good move? Originally, I omitted my personal conclusions so that desperate pseudo-scientist SEO expert wannabes wouldn't flock to my post and infect it with their unfounded, unwelcome opinions, but apparently my preventative measures have failed. So this surprises the SEO industry? Please tell me exactly why. Thanks. It surprises the SEO industry because most of us weren't given the same holy gift of search engine omniscience that God has apparently bestowed upon you. If anyone thinks Google scurries around to find stuffed "profile" pages on a SEO social site and then penalizes those stuffed profile pages for terms NO ONE would want to search on anyway, you all are silly. Wait a second... so you're saying that if one person believes that... then we're ALL silly? That doesn't seem fair. Can I submit a request for reinclusion into your non-silly index, Doug? Pweease? Seriously though... thanks for stopping by. It's an honor. *note from rebecca: edited to sound less, well, "Darren"
I guess that answers the "Will Darren ever learn to play nice with the other kids?" question.
Great. Now we'll *never* know what the original comment said.
That is too funny . . . I've been around just long enough to no know if the "Worlds Greatest SEO" was serious. After reading some of your other comments and posts, I was pretty sure it was in good fun, but I'm happy to know for sure.As for Doug, I feel like this is a pretty good explanation . . . https://www.semportland.com/events/the-doug-heil-movement/
thank you, doug troll, for your judgment. as usual, we are glad that you also did not come to any conclusions.
buzzkill.