Nothing too earth shattering here. Now take a look at what Bob might see if he did a blog search on the same topic. Let's use Google Blog Search this time...
Again, there's nothing particularly eyebrow-raising about this image. However, there is one difference there that the astute reader will notice - specifically, the second image has dates and times while the first does not. Where am I going with this? Well, let's take a look at a little bit of the first page for the top result in both engines.
Hmmm...No date...
And this one has a date... Big deal you say? What is the point I'm trying to make?
Actually it's pretty simple. As bloggers, we tend to always date things and by doing so we build in planned obsolescence. As soon as we've written any type of content, we publish it along with a time stamp. Along comes Bob a couple months later and sees the date and he thinks, "Gee, this was written a few months ago. It isn't up to date anymore. Perhaps I should go elsewhere!"
Bob might not be thinking it consciously but I'll guarantee you it's a thought that has floated in the back of his mind somewhere, sometime! Now, before you write me off totally, keep in mind that I'm not saying that you should never date your articles. What I am saying, however, is that you should make sure that those that aren't going to be irrelevant in a month or two won't be.
I'm going to stand by what I say and remove the date from my posts....how about you?
G-Man
This is why you should seperate between "blog posts" and "articles"
Blog posts are "in the moment" expressions of news and information that give freshness to your website (may have a shelf life of 1 to 2 weeks and should have a timestamp).
Articles talk about concepts and ideas with a research perspective, for the purpose of providing resourceful information, which can be updated but is relatively consistent over time (may only need to be updated every 3 to 6 months but DO NOT need a timestamp), and give credibility to your website.
My thoughts exactly.
If it is informational and will retain its relevance for months to come, then it should be listed as an article (sans timestamp) and not a blog post.
I agree. Evergreen content is better presented as an article, while a blog post can be dated.
From a content management perspective, though (even coming from someone with a completely custom system), it's sometimes hard to make that distinction. I keep developing article-like blog entries, and then wondering if I should spin those off into permanent articles, and if I do, where those should go on the website. If there's an article archive, how is that different from the blog archive, etc.? I agree with your distinction in theory, but it's sometimes hard to put into practice.
Well in many content management systems, you can define the type of post.
For example, in Wordpress there are "posts" and "pages"
Furthermore, you can set up PHP scripts so that "posts" in certain categories automatically have no timestamp and are not pinged. Meanwhile, posts in other categories specifically made for your blog will ping technorati and other feedreaders, and have a timestamp.
Wow :*o
My first comment with 6 thumbs up.. that means 5 people liked what I said.. "they like me, they really like me"
Well let's not get carried away..
I personally wish ALL content on the web was dated. I've often had the experience of surfing the web and finding an article, but not having any idea of how old the article is. If the article does need to be fresh, and there is no date, I won't read it.
I think this is one of these building content for users vs. building content for search engine issues. Users should always win. I trust my users to use the dates on my articles properly.
First of all, I don't think making waffles changes that much with time and I don't think Bob would be mad if he was using a waffle recipe from last year. However, I do see what you are trying to say.
I think that your reference to waffles does show that time does NOT matter. If it were some news item or something that changes more with time, I could understand your point a bit more.
Waffles aside though, I think someone searching in the Blog search vs searching in Google search has different expectations of the results. If I want the latest info on something, then yes, I would use the Blog search because I know that it shows results in reverse chronological order. If I just do a regular search I know that I am getting a result that has the most popularity online (via inbound links) and that the article might be outdated or very new, but it is respected for some reason (and my assumption on that reason would be that the article is relevant/accurate or controversial as judged by other websites and therefore relevant to what I am needing).
The main reason people read blogs is for the fresh content. Removing timestamps defeats the purpose of blog posts and it could hurt your credibility.
I know I would trust a blog much less if it did not have timestamps.
I completely disagree. People read blogs for their content. It doesn't have to be fresh. One of my favourite blogs has awesome content, but it only updates once or twice a week, and it's almost never on cutting edge techniques, or ideas. It's on what I call "the trade" theory.
FYI, the trade theory is:
Don't bother learning the tricks of the trade. Just learn the trade.
The content doesn't have to be fresh. It just needs to be good. Simple as that. And if it IS good, then it doesn't matter if it's fresh. It just matters that it's updated.
Freshness only counts for new visitors. And a new visitor is none the wiser if it's a post from a year ago or if it's from two days ago, if the content is solid.
Well, I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I think all content on the web should be dated. As a user, it's really annoying when you find some content and don't know if it's old or new. The web is starting to get old now - you could be viewing content that was posted 8 years ago and not know it.
Sometimes (as in the case of the waffles), it doesn't matter but in other cases it really does. I was impressed to come across a message at PHP Mac that alerts you when you might be viewing outdated content.
On a blog you're probably not going to have either all timeless content or all timely content (if that makes any sense!). It's going to be a mix. You're probably not going to selectively remove dates from some articles but not others.
There will always be times where the date in favour anyway. If you've got the newer content then you want that date to show.
I tend to agree with your conclusion; it's the lack of dates on non-blog content that's really a disservice. I hate searching for something timely (especially technical or news content), only to realize that the search results are 5+ years old.
Wow! Great comments folks!
It's interesting that I've seen people use blogs more and more as a content management system and yet there still seem to be quite a few that make the distinction of blog content vs articles.
It appears that more people would actually leave a blog without a date than those who would stick around if one were not there.
And I find that curious! Very curious indeed!
However, based on the comments I've seen so far and one that said if I were posting on SEO (which I am) I'd be 'mad' to remove the dates (that one struck a chord with me), I'm going to put them back on.
I still think, however, that you could lose some readers by having dates - I know I personally have looked at the date and said that it isn't relevant - even for stuff where the date didn't matter.
G-Man
Well, when SEO gets in the way of user experience or expectations, then SEO becomes the hindrance, right? :)
G-Man there's almost an expectation of a date on a blog. With seo think about looking for content about link building tactics. How relevant would an older post be. Without the dates you might find something telling you to exchange links with everyone or submit to every directory on the web you can find.
Even more general there are plenty of older posts floating around talking of the importance of meta keywords and keyword density.
A lot of older posts help further some of the misinformation about seo that permeates the web.
You could even argue that passing the old thought s new would hurt your brand as you might be seen as someone who still believes and practices the old tactics.
It is possible to hack Wordpress so that "pages" appear in categories and RSS feeds.
It is also possible to hack Wordpress so that blog posts appear under the nested "pages"
Wordpress is a lot more powerful than many people give it credit for.
I like to use dates in posts, because it is kind on the database. The important factor is providing navigation such that a reader can find the information they are looking for that is most related to what they want to read.
If you are publishing via a blog, you have to introduce elements into your blog design that make your content timeless, rather than having to browse it on date based order.
Wordpress is the bomb :)
Timestamp for this slang: 1994
In my reading habits, I've noticed the oposite effect. For a lot of the content I'm interested in there is a degree of date sensitivity such as in content around technological developments. If an article or blog post has no date in these instances I'm left to wonder when it was written and if the information used and referenced in the article is still applicable.
I can also see however where a less timesensitive piece can be hindered by being attached to a date.
I would recommend that the decision to include a date be based on subject matter. If what you right about tends to be less timesensitive, don't worry about a date, but if your content tends to be based on time sensitive, current event-like issues, perhaps including a date would serve you well.
But yet your own article has a date and timestamp. :\
Check this out. With the advent of the blog [weblog] - NOT CMS or blog's being designed toward CMS - but say Blogger...strictly blogging, from the point of view of a weblog definition [a person's personal online diary or journal] it's all about the date!
Not to mention your example. How to make waffles isn't going to change. Making waffles isn't time sensitive.
SEO is. HTML standards are. Web compliance. Technology. Science. Current Events. These are all time sensitive matters.
These are time sensitive matters and not only will I actively pursue looking for a date when I read articles on these subjects, but if there is not date I chalk them up as non-authoritative and go somewhere else.
Goodness. I nearly fell outta my seat reading your article. I hope you reconsider your position. Oh, and if you do, you can reference back to the day February 27, 2007 and know when it was you thought differently. :-p
Thanks for allowing my critique to not hurt your self-esteem.
Keep writing Geoffrey!
That's exactly what I was thinking. I can understand the point you were trying to make, G-Man, but your example wasn't a very good one.
Umm.. I think that's what he was saying.. a post about waffles doesn't need a date.. ?
No, he said
...which I don't think is quite a valid point with something that isn't time-sensitive, like a recipe for waffles.
Hmm... you're right.. better example could have been used..
So I would say it all depends on the purpose of the site? blog? If it is about a pretty static subject then we can avoid dating it, or else it should have a date on it?
Yeah, that seems to be the consensus :)
Hah! I've managed to generate 8 thumbs down on this post!
Maybe I should go for the most # of thumbs downs I can get. Highest negative score on SEOmoz. That'd be an accomplishment - no? :)
G-Man
I thumbed-down your comment, just for good measure :)
I assume the negativity was directed at your conclusion, not your post itself. I honestly thought the whole topic was interesting food for thought.
LOL.
Have blog...will create controversy!
If everyone agrees with you, someone is redundant!
For what it's worth, I think a lot of folks missed this at the end of my post:
G-Man
I think people thumbed this post down because you took one extreme. Instead, it is better to have a balance between dated and non-dated materials. It completely depends on the age sensitivity of the content. For example, a Math website does NOT need dates on pages describing the definitions for circumference, volume, area, diameter, radius, length, width, depth, etc. However if there is a new math textbook out, or a new development in math, or anything "in the moment" then it needs a date.
I agree with what others have said above as well.
No date - Make it an ArticleBlog post - MUST carry a date.
How would it look if I could remove the data/time from my comment?
All depends of what type or content you are Writing, Is like to write an article about hot water or maybe a blog, the post don´t need to be from this year, the blog or article just need to have ussefull content and a Good Title.
Since reading this post I've been paying a little more attention to whether or not blog postss have dates on them. As a user it frustrates me when I don't see one since I do like to know when something was written. Knowing when something was written does affect my view of it fairly or unfairly.
One thing I've noticed is that even for blogs that aren't publishing a date the comments for the post are often dated so it's still pretty easy to know when the post was written. I guess if you're going to turn dates off on the posts you might want to think about turning them off on the comments too,
As web developers we have a pretty scewwed view of what blogs are/can be/should be that is pretty different to the perception of the masses. I agree that if the content is time sensitive it should be dated... but most of the time I think time-sensitive data "self dates". For example:
Bush wins second bid for US president
New Mac G4
Sanctions on Iraq continue without success
Kennedy shot
Adobe purchases Macromedia
Just by virtue of what the content is it tells us when it was created... or at least what time in history it references. Really the only subject I can think of that is time-sensitive is science/tech (especially medical).
But more important: how many of your visitors would even notice if the date were missing?
Thanks G-Man! Something to ponder...
We are also assuming that regular people know the difference between a blog post and an article. I am still continually surprised at how many people need an explaination of what a blog is.
I definitely disagree that time-sensitive information self-dates. This is why so many webmasters have such severe misconceptions about SEO.
Blogs by their name are logs right? Logs by their nature are time stamped. Articles by nature should be timeless.
But articles may be considered spam. IM's write articles for back links. Bloggers write blogs for varied resasons. Articles are SEO tools. Ranked Blogs are usually recommedation filters. Good information is timeless.
If the blog is a diary it should be dated. But dating blogs can be counter productive for the poster at it may appear to readers that posts are infrequent.
Do you think articles are generally spam? I posted a case study question at https://www.cre8asiteforums.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46933
Good points Gman... I totally agree with you. I actually enjoy seeing blogs every so often that display the date in a funky way or dont display the date at all. If you use Wordpress as a CMS and remove the visible date, you can really have a powerful content management system that is timeless.
I'm voting in favor of dates. I think it's good to know the context with with something is written - and time is part of that.
Having said that, the waffle article works for me b/c of the PHOTO. Maybe it's b/c it's lunchtime, or maybe it's because I love a good waffle. But an article with a photo is going to grab my attention ten times faster than one without - no matter what the date is.
Same goes for well-crafted headlines.
I think blog's should really stick to being a news archive with dates associated to each post - this is what separates them from regular content.
Anything which should appear date & timeless should be published separately - as web content on your website.
I think blog readers like to feel they are reading "the latest information" and this is why dates are so important.
Again, I'm going to stick my neck out here, and say that the dates published don't matter. The content doesn't have to be new. It just needs to be good. And you've illustrated my point for me, actually... And why do I say that?
"I think blog readers like to feel they are reading "the latest information" and this is why dates are so important."
The most important part of that is that they "..like to feel they are reading "the latest information"..."
A-ha! So it's not whether the content is fresh or new, it's how it is percieved that matters! It's how it connects to the reader, and what they decide for themselves about it, based on the content!
Let me give you an example (bear with me, this will seem odd for a minute):
A man opens a door for a woman. Now, the woman can look at what he's done and say "what a charming man. He's taken the trouble to stop and hold the door for me. How polite!" OR she can say "what a chauvenistic pig. How dare he? Does he think I can't open a door for myself?!"
Note, the important thing here isn't the act of opening the door, it's how it is perceived. Similarly, it isn't whether the content is fresh, it's whether it is perceived as good. If it is, then the date doesn't matter. If it isn't the date still doesn't matter. Because crap content doesn't.
My two cents anyway...
I have a question for you: if you were building content for seo purposes, would you a) use a blog with its ease of use + ability to ping SEs or b) add it as a webpage to your website?
A blog has its disadvantages but also advantages v. a static site.
Hi David,
I would make it an article, as part of my CMS, but not part of my blog. See my post below about articles vs. blog posts.
-k.s.
For me it comes down to this question:Is the relevance and even the accuracy of what your saying directly proportional to the length time from the article/blog being published?
If your subject matter is SEO then you would be mad to remove the timestamp from your articles.
If your simply posting about recipes then the date it was posted is clearly irrelevant.
My POV, don't withhold information unless it can be beneficial to you and not detrimental to your readers. If if your a regular publisher of articles and blogs then you will most likely revisit material that is date relevant anyway.
I'm going to have to agree with a lot of the commenters and say that dates on blogs are good. I especially agree with simmal_tree that blogs are "in the moment." I mean, if we didn't date our articles at Marketing Pilgrim, you might find the 2% click fraud article and think that it was 2 minutes old (and then report on it; how embarrassing) or 2 years old and completely dismiss it.
Plus, dates help us to develop stories over time. Do you want to read aboutthe NCICL challenging Google's Lenoir deals, then read about the announcement, then read about the bullying, then the tax breaks?
Or, on my personal blog, you might come across one post about Hayden walking, then one post with a video of his first efforts to crawl. From the context you can figure out the timeline, but you'll be mighty confused without it.
The thing that really made me want to comment was this: has there been some change in how waffles are made in the last few months? Decades? I don't like the blog result because it's irrelevant and doesn't help me make waffles, not because it's a whole 7 hours old.
If you're looking for current news, you'll want something with a recent timestamp. If you're trying to dig up older news, you'll want something with an older timestamp. But if you're looking for how-tos, dates are probably irrelevant.
Interesting topic and responses, and one that I'm not sure any consensus will be reached.
Blogs are evolving, just like everything else online, so I'm not even sure we can definitively say what a blog is or should or should not be used for. It has really just become another way of publishing content.
I think we need to give the reader some credit though and in determining what they feel is important and relevant to their search. Are they looking for information that is the most current? Or are they specifically looking for, researching, information within a specific timeframe? Perhaps they are wanting to know what was said about click fraud last July - December?
They may not care whether the information on making waffles is 10 minutes or 10 years old... but maybe they are looking for the most current changes on the subject.
Without the date, there is ambiguity and you may force the reader to seek another source, regardless of whether your information is truly current and relevant.
Looking at things from the other side what about the traffic boost you might get while the article is fresh?
I think in the end the decision should depend on what's being posted. If the post is a news type of post then maybe it shouldn't be the first item clicked in a few months or years.
If it is meant to be a timeless piece then it could be posted as an article instead of a post or it could also be updated every so often to make it more timely.
Geoffrey it's an interesting discussion, but one thing to point out is the difference in where the searches took place.
For the second image the search was performed at Google's blog search. The person searching blogs specifically is likely looking for fresh content and the results should be based in some degree on how new the posts are.
If you have a post that's several years old then it's not likely to show up in the blog search results unless there's not much else being said about the topic.
You shouldn't be seeing an old post mixed in with new posts with the blog search so interesting though this discussion is it might be somewhat moot.
I for one don't mind challenging the status quo as I have several times in the past on my own blog. However, making a move like this is not one to take lightly as so many other commenters have noted. Readers do expect some kind of consistency in blogs they read - and timestamps happen to be one of them. I'd personally consider making this jump, but then I can be experimental. I'd certainly advise anyone that is considering removing timestamps to think very carefully about the benefits of doing this and weighing them objectively against the cons before making this move. Don't just do it because SEOMoz suggests it might be a good idea. Y'know?
It's ridiculous to say that all blogs shouldn't have dates, or that all blogs should. If the time is relevant to the content, as it is for many of our writings, then it should have a date. If it's not relevant, the date only gets in the way.
It was just yesterday that I go so frustrated with something I was reading because I didn't know how relevant it was. If the subject has a time element to it, PLEASE include the date.