On Monday, Brian Provost at ScoreBoard Media Group authored a post called - The First Question You Should Ask Your SEO Consultant. Brian's exceptionally good at expressing himself, so I won't paraphrase:
“If you can rank a site in lucrative markets, why would you do it for clients instead of for yourself?”
That’s the first thing you, the prospective client, should ask each of the SEO consultants you are considering...
Brian proceeds with what is, in essence, a direct indictment of SEOmoz's business model and the model of most of these folks as well:
...For many of us, we only consulted as long as we had to in order to build up our bankroll. I’m constantly amazed at how many of these “SEO Firms” with the big followings generate little to no income from their own projects. If there is a stronger signal of quality for a lack of confidence in their own ability, I can’t think of it.
That said, I charge a lot and I have an addiction to cars, so I may divert some more energy to consulting before a car purchase. It’s really, really hard to ween yourself from the Consulting Crack Pipe, but with that said, if your consultant does nothing but consult/teach, that’d be a huge red flag to me. If anyone with more than 3 years of experience is allocating more than 50% of their time to consulting, I’m going on record as doubting their skills.
The funny part is, Brian and I actually agree about this issue. Our opinions differ, however, when it comes to which skills, exactly, are being called into question. While Brian believes that SEOmoz (I know he didn't specifically mention us, but we're a perfect match for the profile) is bad at the practice of search engine marketing, I think the truth is that we're bad at starting up different business models. For me, personally, SEO is what I'm passionate about - I love teaching people about how the search engines operate, speaking at conferences, giving presentations to small and mid-size companies, answering questions over email and generally helping good companies perform better in the rankings.
I'm certainly willing to accept my limitations, and I would like to broaden what SEOmoz does - we have 3 unique internal projects that have all been under way for some time (but getting the client work done and keeping the bills paid keeps getting in the way 
). However, I recognize that Brian makes an excellent point - despite having a few 5-figure and several, smaller mid-3 figure contracts each month, there can be little doubt that the value of ranking well in the right industries can provide considerably greater returns.
First off, before anyone replies, I think it's valuable that you read Brian's entire post - his position isn't absolute and he does allow for some "excuses" as to why talented folks might take on consulting or client work. What interests me most about this topic is how other talented SEOs, whether you work for a company in-house or at an SEO company or (particularly) as a private consultant would defend themselves from these charges. Are we good SEOs, but bad businesspeople? Lazy enterpreneurs? Risk-averse and lacking in confidence?
BTW - I think I'm adding Scoreboard to my must-read blogs list. Thanks for the tip, Aaron!
A comment I forgot to make...
SEO/SEM is MARKETING. Would you ever question someone at Ogilvy (500 marketing offices globally) - "why don't you just run television ads for your own company, instead of selling your services to others?"
Of course not, because their business IS marketing. That's what SEM consulting is - marketing! There's so much more than just getting a site ranked on Google, or getting an article dugg to drive traffic. These are tactics within a marketing strategy - ones that most businesses wouldn't have a clue how to do without the help of an online marketing consultant (SEO/SEM).
Okay - rant over. Back to work...
Kind of what I was trying to say here
One could argue that SEO is simply good web site administration.
lol.... relate the root question to personal relationships..
Some folks enjoy strutting their stuff and playing around... others want secure and familiar.
... and their are multiple explanations for each of those preferences.
Don't spend time trying to analyze these things! You will not understand it - they don't understand it.
Great analogy...
My start in this field can actually be pinpointed to a post on a forum where I asked a question and got a response from you and 2 other "greats" from the past.
Thanks! I hope that you are having fun and making some money!
well said, EGOL.
I think many of the other comments cover a key element in the discussion... that SEO is a service. It is one element of all of the elements in today's businesses. If the market you are trying to rank in is so lucrative, it is probably extremely competitive as well. So to be successful in their market on your own, you would most likely not only have to be on top of your SEO game, but every other aspect in running the business. Which is precisely why there are specialists.
While there is some validity here, the concern I have with these type of stances is that they also negate the fact that anything else could be as or more important than making money. The industry seems to attract those who enjoy a lot of variety (which might be contained within some of his acceptable answers) and people who really enjoy helping others to succeed.
Certainly money is great, but it is also pretty cool when clients call up all excited seeing their sites move up within the ranks.
I agree - this and a few other posts have highlighted reasons why you may work in, or even as an, SEO, but not be self-employed.
I fell into SEM from a more traditional online marketing role because it was obvious that it was an area that we needed to get better at. And whilst I don't have some of the tech skills to set up & run my own money-making sites (and as Jane said, no real interest in running directories and the like) what I enjoy is being able to explain issues to a non-tech audience is ways that they can understand.
And also, as a frustrated journalist, I love the fact that it is an area which is having a huge impact on the way that publishers create content - running www.shit-spammy-directory.co.uk might make more money, but I would probably be bored to death in about a week.
I have to agree with most of the points of Brian's post.
It is a good business strategy for a SEO company to build it's own properties online. Sites are real estate and the good thing on the web is that the land is free. Not building on a free land if you have the expertiseis a bit stupid if you ask me.
The original question "“If you can rank a site in lucrative markets, why would you do it for clients instead of for yourself?”" is valid imho. It is actually two simple questions in one "why do you want to make less money?" and "Where did you learn SEO if you are not working on your own sites?".
Personally I never call myself a SEO and I am not working for anyone but myself for the simple reason that I enjoy building things for my own and the fact that I could never take the responsibility to work on someone's else site. If I mess up a site it will be mine and only mine, if I succeed with a site again it will be mine and only mine. The way I see it working on your sites is freedom while working on clients sites is the real responsibility.
Frankly, I got tired of the extreme work and needed a break and to go do something different - 10 years will do that to ya.
I like what I'm doing now - like speaking at conferences - which I never would have done had I not moved to client-side.
I get to teach people what I know, inspire them, fire them up about SEO (witness on my birthday card today "Judith, happy birthday. Birthday wishes Judith. Judith's b'day today. Happy memories Judith... think you'll find this is very SEM friendly although doesn't read the best!"), speak at conventions, socialise, and all that good stuff.
I also like being a poster child for women in technology at my office. I out-geeked the IT department apparently! (OK... kinda scary...)
I didn't like having to worry about not passing on commercially sensitive information to competitors who, in the niche market I was in, didn't have a clue. I'm much happier client-side now!
That's the perfect answer to Brian's question. People should do the work they love.
It's kind of a funny article really (and not funny haha); while I generally agree that any good SEO should have tried out some of their own sites/projects/ideas at some point, I don't know that that really has anything to do with their choice in careers.
People do what they do because (yes, this is an overly-simplified list):
-they have to
-they don't know anything else
-or they really like what they do
it's like saying, don't trust ambulance paramedics, or nurses, because if they were any good they would have been doctors (and make more money)
People choose to do what they do for an infinite number of reasons (they like it, they don't have the motivation or guts to take the leap themselves, whatever)
That's why some people choose to be paralegals instead of lawyers...
or flight attendants instead of pilots...
or dental assistants instead of dentists
When I was in University, one of the best professors I had, taught an incredible Business class. Great guy, very knowledgable. He was able to break complicated concepts down into interesting and digestible pieces that helped his class learn and grow. He fostered my desire to be an entrepreneur...
And if he had chosen to go and start his own business instead of following his passion to teach, I would be poorer for it.
That's not quite true. Brian recommends nine SEOs at the end of his post, of which eight are in your own recommended list :)
Well, if you want to get technical, it's precisely accurate, because the majority (most) of the people on that list DO fall under his indictment. :) There's 40+ on the list and 6/8 from Brian's are on there.
p.s. edited your post for weird spacing issues ;)
Buiding and running your own business, even online business, involves much more than just marketing. Some people want to run their own show and wear many hats, some prefer to concentrate on what they do best (or like to do best).
eSherpa - Perfect answer! You get an A+ ;-)
I learned SEO from running my own online businesses. I made a ton of money, and had lots of fun - for a while. Then, the combination of business management, accounting, legal, customer service, contract negotiations, and all the other aspects of running my business began taking its toll.
Working 16+ hours a day, 6-7 days each week and constantly telling my wife and kids that soon I will work fewer hours began to wear on me.
Throughout my experience, however, I found that my favorite daily "job" was marketing my websites. Voila, I began consulting, sold my business - and now work a pretty regular 40-50 hour/week helping others and still spending all my nights and weekends with the wife and kids. Oh yeah, and I can actually take a vacation now!
I suppose I could have made millions if I continued on with my business - but at what cost? My marriage? My family? My sanity? No thanks! Consulting is fun and rewarding, and my stress induced insomnia has gone away! ;)
Thank you Scott, you're too kind. I agree, there are things in life that money can't buy. The trick is to never forget about it.
I don't know if Brian is commenting on the state of current SEO companies/consultants or on the current state of the SEO business. To put it bluntly, search/internet monetization right now is the wild wild west, the final frontier, and the gold rush all rolled up into one. Opportunities are rife because the market keeps growing by ludicrous amounts every year. The number of people willing to spend money on/around the internet expands constantly, and as a related service, SEO's fortunes (and composition, and tactics, and so on) will grow to match.
Consider web design in the early 90s. Everybody was doing it, qualified or not. Thousands of "web design" companies sprung up overnight, it was easy to do the basics and hard to do well but the customers were so uninformed and the market so undefined it didn't matter. Nearly anyone who had paid attention to computers in the last 3 years could do it. And if you weren't doing it, you knew a friend's cousin who "taught himself HTML". The market was wide open and nobody knew where it would end, and what form that ending would take (both market cap wise and where the service providers would end up). Now, many years later, the market has consolidated around a service format. Many companies have in-house departments for maintaining their web sites, though the original design may have come from an external source. Others hire high-end agencies (some folded into advertizing agencies). The little guy is still out there, but it's no longer "easy money"; the majority of entities requiring a web site already have one, and the people shopping for a new one are now informed about and actually require programming and graphic design skill.
As I said before, I think SEO is at this kind of watershed moment, and if you consider the context of Brian's statements then he is right, for right now. If you are concerned with money and being a "competitive throat slitting american alpha male" then you should not be ignoring these opportunities, because they will not be around for long. But if you are going to be or want to be a service provider for the mature market when all of the flakes, conmen, opportunists, and the lazy, fall by the wayside (some having earned far more money then is probably karmically right ;) ) then a service company/agency approach is a nice one to take. The SEO industry's needs and organization are not fixed, and neither approach is "right" in the absolute sense being that they both could be right for right now.
PS-I am not implying that Brian is a flake,conman,etc., but merely pointing out the diversity of the gold seekers in both the early web design example and how I see things now in SEO.
Seems to me that over at SEOmoz, you *are* building an in-house project - the blog (which ranks very well in the highly competitive SEO field). The primary way of monetizing that (at the moment) is through consulting (assuming premium members are a small fraction of revenue at the moment).
I see no problem with combining client work (up-front money) with investing in your own business (longer to turn a profit, but potentially hugely lucrative for little recurring work).
I agree with the linked article if we read it as saying that you don't want to work with an SEO company / consultant who couldn't build a profitable online business in one form or another. What kind of business they choose to build depends hugely (as you and others rightly point out) on a whole bunch of other factors / circumstances.
Edited for formatting
Maybe a client wants to rank for something I could care less about. That's why I'm not building my own sites to grab those rankings. There's more to this biz than ranking and money and more money. Consulting = interacting with people and less time sitting on front of a computer all day - that's why I do it!
I like your point. If we do work for a hair salon and have them rank for terms like "hairdresser Portland" (I'm just making up examples), there's no way we'd ever want to build a site to rank for those terms ourselves.
However, working on ranking things for our own interests would be far more fun. In terms of business, the question is, which venture is going to pay more? If you need to pay bills and your Portland salon is paying well, a fun project that doesn't pay as much may have to be put aside.
Ultimate goal, of course, is to create in-house projects that will pay more than clients. How easy does that sound?
Not true, create a hairdressers yellow pages or directory type of site rank well for "hairdresser (enter state, city whatever)" and see the subscriptions and money coming in from a site that needs very little maintanance after the first year.
I'd rather create something that's both interesting and monetisable. Idealistic, yes, but I don't see myself having a fun or productive career creating directories that most people find spammy and hellishly boring. I believe you can make good money and create interesting content at the same time.
I pretty much agree with the general tone and have worked to make my own income more personally- than client-generated. Two points (or "excuses") that I would make, however:
1) Fun (which gets forgotten all too often in this industry)
I have two sites I work with in relatively competitive areas that I have no connection with personally because it is fun (and educational) to test yourself against good competition in "foreign" waters. I have other clients (some referred to in the SME threads!) where it is fun and extremely satisfying to work with them and see their business grow. (And I sometimes get bored just working on my own sites all the time.)
2) Some people are entrepreneurs and some don't have a business bone in their body. Making your own money from your own projects is anathema to some people - their intuition freezes in the headlights of personal responsibility. And they will always be happier working for someone else - and doing a great job at performing the tasks but not taking the responsibility.
Scoreboard's a good daily read - I like my SEM blogs snarky and thought-provoking...
And I sometimes get bored just working on my own sites all the time.
I agree with that, although I'd possibly take it further. I worry about becoming over-familiar and even a bit complacent with some sites if I don't change the way I look at things every so often. Dealing with clients exposes you to different markets and let's you deal with new challenges; plus, like you say it can be educational and fun.
Some clients have a value beyond the money - consulting work depends on what the consultant gets out of it.
Then you must be a fan of my posts! (Just kidding--I've got the snarky part, but I'm not sure if I'm that thought-provoking...hmmm, maybe we should create a Rand/Rebecca hybrid. Randbecca?)
Seriously, yes - far rather read a snarky post with individuality than 10 Ways To Get Out of Bed in the Morning. Keep getting those thumbs-downs! Rand's also been provoking my thoughts and comments too much lately when I'm supposed to be working (or skiing)...
Rand, with your last paragraph I was totally reminded of my own situation but I can't explain why I'm in it.
Maybe I am wasting my time on SEO websites and forums, maybe I am a lazy entrepreneur.
I had a blog before most people had blogs. I started my blog almost four years ago, and then let it go after six months. By now it could have been something big.
I know this wasn't really the focus of your post but I read it with this perspective.
I was working on so many projects and have helped so many others to build their projects but haven't taken the time to follow all of the ideas, business projects, that I have had. I especially got this feeling when I had to introduce myself recently when I joined cre8asiteforums. I could list all of the knowledge, training and experience I've had but I didn't have much to show for it other than other people's projects and none of my own.
I was actually talking about this with a friend last night. So your post might have been the last straw... I might take it as inspiration and do something of my own. :)
The same question could be asked of any consultant in general. Why does McKinsey or Accenture or an infinite number of smaller firms do their projects? Because they make a boatload of money helping their clients' businesses.
Brian's thesis only holds water if, as an SEO, your clients are primarily adwords & affiliate arbitrageurs.
Don't apologize for building your company Rand! You specialize in whatever you do best. Rock on.
I know I definitely have had my own reservations about this very topic. I have both a full time job and a small client list of SEO/M consulting that I do. I do the consulting cause I find it fun. Plus I really like getting twice the pay in the same amount of time!
Yep, this is a great punch in the face on lots of undeskilled SEO-consultants.
Sweden is infested with them, they know how to sell, but they dont know a thing about SEO. And they sertanly cant earn any money from a project of their own.
I read the original blog post by Brian earlier this week and I agree with him 100%. I don't see why any decent SEO would work doing services or consulting when they could be working on their own projects.
That same time spent on client's projects would be better spent building up your own sites… and it will earn you much more money.
I guess some people are under the false illusion that they have some type of security working for someone else. The real security is in the passive residual income you will make from building up your own sites/business.
I agree with what's being said by most here.
In my case it is definitely about motivation. I got into this with a friend, and where he makes sites for clicks and generates a lot of cash, I'm in it for other reasons. He's doing this part-time while in professional school and once he's done he probably won't have the time for these sites anymore. I'm trying to make a career out of this and one day feed a family on it.
I work in-house for a retailer by day, and work on other client sites by night. In my business model I try and work out a commissions structure vs. a large lump sum. This way I'm not a burden on the site owners unless they are making money, and the more money they make, the more money I make - everyone is happy. So I guess you could say I don't have my own sites, but I have my hands in the pockets of a few others.
It also helps to change it up once in a while so you don't get bored working on the same topic.
Hi Rand,
No money in SEO consulting? Search on Spannerworks
and Icrossing.
The consultancy was sold for £40m . Now would that not tempt you?
Unless you have serious backing and a good business plan it is very
difficult to survive the early year(s) of a startup. However i wouldnt
mind betting that an awful lot of SEO consultants
have their own sites which they slowly build up over the years when they are mainly
helping their clients. Often referred to as
"Oh its just a small site for my pension".
Thanks for the good article
SEO is an industry based primarily on the new Google economy. Without Google there wouldn't be such an emphasis on this emerging market. Google's popularity, rather than keyword only ranking system plus their Adsense program has spawned an industry where individuals, inspired by ideas and technology, can participate in a democratic online world economy. It’s good!
For 15 years I have served 250+ clients with strategic consulting, development and deployment of web sites. It is only because of Web 2.0 APIs, Google, and the emerging social economy that I can now turn my attention to my own dreams of owning site(s) that will hopefully monetize traffic.By building my own sites I am fine tuning my SEO skills daily. And as the emerging economy impacts traditional business, those SEO skills are ever more in need.
Today companies understand web sites. Few people understand Web 2.0 yet, or at least, how it impacts traditional business. Smart developers are constantly refining their keywords, linkbait, virals, and popularity through Web 2.0 social media, therefore traditional company's site rankings are slipping further and further away from top SERPs. Because SEO was evolved by these New Economy individuals interested in their own sites, an industry now exists to service the very companies that have disappeared from ranking.
But the reality is that creating ones own site and acquiring the threshold traffic for worthwhile monetizing takes massive amounts of work. There’s no such thing as a free lunch (great example article of that fact here). So at least half the time I don’t mind charging for ‘knowledge transfer’ (as we so eloquently put it) and sometimes they even buy me lunch.
Just thinking out loud here:
I guess asking an SEO why they don't just use their skills to promote their own business prevents them with a mindbending question, but there's always something that bothers me about that question.
If you're looking for an SEO consultant and you're going in with the assumption that all the really good ones only work for themselves, then at the end of the day, you're still stuck with what you're assuming is the second tier. If you think the good ones only work for themselves, then you have no chance of getting the good ones. So, you're stuck with the ones who are willing to work with you anyway.
I guess the point is really to see how they answer the question. It's ruined now, though because everyone who has read Brian's post and this post will be ready with a slam dunk answer anyway.
Brian is totally right. I find it so strange why every SEO wants to work with clients. From a business/moneymaking standpoint it makes no sense to me, no sense at all.
Perhaps this will clarify:
https://www.seomoz.org/blog/how-to-price-an-seo-campaign
;)
I started working as a consultant because I wanted the intellectual and financial freedom/satisfaction that comes from working for yourself.
I agree it makes sense to use your SEO skills on your own projects if you can. It’s not just a great way to earn additional revenue but also a great way of testing ideas before trying them out on client sites.
However, when a client approaches me they have already done a lot of the work. They have taken the financial risks that I might not necessarily be prepared to make. Plus making a competitive website a success can be a fulltime job in itself.
I have a few sites that I earn additional income from and many more ideas that I’m sure I could earn more from, but I simply don’t have the time to realize these ideas - or the funds to wait around whilst I’m waiting for the return on my SEO investment.
Nor am I prepared to take the risk of working for nothing for 6 months whilst I put the ground work in.
So they tick away in the background and I try and make time but I also have the bills to pay. My long term intention is for these sites/ideas to make more money but I also have secure my future with a guaranteed income.
And human interaction is far more fun than sitting on your own staring at a screen all day with a sick feeling caused by not knowing if you are ever going to make any money from your efforts.
Glad to see you listen to your coworkers, Rand--I told you how much I enjoy the Scoreboard Media Group blog at least two weeks ago. Grrr...
heh....amazing how you can say something to your boss a dozen times and it goes ignored until someone else validates it, huh?
Right!.... and then it's HIS idea!
I'm just giving Rand a hard time--no hard feelings :)
<blockquote>“If you can rank a site in lucrative markets, why would you do it for clients instead of for yourself?”</blockquote>
Say I make an e-commerce site for myself and sell books. I have amazon or barnes and noble do all the dealing with the customer and I make a 5% commission.
Now say I go to a local book store that ships worldwide. They don't make 5%; they make a much larger profit margin and are willing to give me more in order to get all those extra sales from people on the Internet. By working with them I make more.
Shame - he didn't publish my comment a few days ago.
Bottom line is that SEO is a service industry, and service industries supply specialist knowledge/resources. That's what they get to charge for.
Doesn't mean to say people can't set up independent revenue streams from SEO services - it makes perfect business sense.
But that's doesn't invalidate the service industry as a business model - it just means companies focused on delivering those services are probably more prone to volatility.
The old saying "Do it with someone else's money" comes to mind here. Working for clients is a lot safer.
Rand, you and I have a similar business model in that we run SEO companies, and are not SEO consultants. We have several projects that we have been wanting to start for some time but, as you said, we're too busy doing client work. Clients pay the bills and they soak up all of our "spare" man hours. We could hire more people, just for these new side projects but its not that easy to do necessarily, because each project, client or internal, takes a team not an individual.
I don't get the argument. It's like saying a good CMO should also be the COO.
Well put.
Rand & Crew:
I actually hold SEOmoz and what you built here in very high regard and wrote about it a few months ago:
https://www.scoreboard-media.com/seomoz/
Certainly not the target of my post.
Take care,
BP
Brian - wow, those are very nice compliments. I hope we can live up to the expectations :) Great topic, BTW - I think everyone who consults or offers services thinks about this a lot.
I identify when you say that internal projects get left behind, because you need to pay the bills. We here have the same problem - we have a couple of very cool ideas, but no actual time to really work on them, because we need to do the third-party SEM work.
But I think you really nailed it when you say that SEO is your true love. That kind of underlines the priority level you have regarding your business model. You may make less money, but you are more focused on what you love to do.
I agree to a certain extent with what Brian says, I would love to do for myself what I have done for so many of my clients but lets be honest they are all experts in their chosen fields (which is why they are sucessful) and I am an expert in my field.
I would love to be a master of all trades and a jack of none, but for now I think I will focus on making my SEM business a success :)
The nice thing about being an SEO expert is that we don’t have to deal with all the other business type tasks and concentrate on our SEO task only.
I personally work on several personal projects and try my best to manage them from a business sense. My main priorities however are in helping other businesses achieve their goals with SEO.
Why? Because that’s what I started doing 7 years ago and have loved doing it ever since (it's also what I'm good at)
What we are dealing with here is 2 very different mindsets - the entrepreneurial business man and the SEO expert - very few have both of these qualities and if we do, we rarely have the time to do both.
Where I can, I try to make use of my skills for business gain - when there isn't time I work on helping others.
SEM is an in-house position in my mind.
“If you can rank a site in lucrative markets, why would you do it for clients instead of for yourself?”
Even when this is the case, as long as your SEO consultant answers along the lines of "That doesn't matter; the fact is that I DO do it for my clients" (i.e. they can prove that they have been effective for other clients), then what difference does it make whether their successful for themselves?
Given the choice of hiring an SEO with a proven track record for numerous clients or one that has been successful for themselves but never shown that they can do the same for other people, I'd be going with the latter.
I think the direction you choose (consulting vs. projects) depends a lot on the opportunities available to you.
If you started learning SEO in your spare time, then that extra time is the resource you can exploit, building sites for yourself.
If you were thrown into SEO on the job ("can you look into this Google stuff for us?") then you may become the in-house expert at that company -- or at your next company.
If you merged into SEO from some other marketing job, then you may establish a lot of agency connections - handy for starting a consulting gig.
If you're a good business person, you'll pick the path of least resistance, and that can be many different paths for many different people.
It is an interesting topic, and quite a challenging one. Considering it takes a year to see proper results on natural (lets ignore PPC which requires initial capital). How often does an SEO guy (usually technical in background) have an idea he'd want to optimise that will survive that long and deliver enough ROI - Yet still not mean one must do it full time?
Is there such a mystical beast as the "2 hours a week, easy money scheme?" and if so, is it ethical, credible and challenging? Personally, I've come across some interesting money making schemes like these and usually find that a lot of energy is put behind them. But the characters are usually quite savvy and sales like oriented.
I don’t do SEO for myself because I don’t have an idea I feel is worth investing in, but further more I do this everyday – to do it for myself after I come back from work seems a bit excessive.
It’s a question of motivation and intent, as far as I see.
>>Considering it takes a year to see proper results on natural
d00d - get a new consultant now
I agree with a lot of the comments on this post. But in particular, the fact that only managing your own products can get monotonous and mundane. And if you spend a lot of your time consulting or managing other folks' products, you get a change from time to time. You also get more human interaction, which in this day in age, is important. =)
besides, isn't running your own consulting company still running a business even if you don't sell anything other than your services?
I agree with both of you guys here. As Rand pointed out, its simply a matter of whether one wants, or has the capacity to, extend, add or recreate their business model(s).
I have personally been experimenting with other means of income when it comes to SEO. Many new or small businesses can simply not afford the man power certain actions online take (a majority of the population in my community is NOT computer savvy), let alone any kind of decent consulting. But what if their was some kind of profit sharing involved? Or, taking it a step further, what if we partnered up with people who could create the business plans, and do the more manual, tedious actions of a business and we would cover all technical, SEO related actions?
What if we as SEOs slash our fees and up our time and dedication to clients for a bigger pay off for all?
Probably only works on a small scale though...
I think evangelising SEO and its worth means that people like Brian can do consulting work when they want to buy that new car. But it's not always about money, there is an enjoyment of something purely for its own sake. I met Rand on a panel at SES London when I worked for Ask.com and his commitment and enthusiasm for SEO was obvious. Why else would anyone ever wear yellow shoes?! Without evangelists out there the value of SEO becomes lost.
SEO is still seen by many as a dark art and is still widely misunderstood, and unfortunately the market is full of charlatans willing to capitalise on this. Without stand-up, open professionals teaching companies about search and demystifying the whole process we'll always be in a market where providing a substandard service is all too easy because the client expectations are not accurately informed.
I think that there's a great amount of value to consultants, but I think that model fits in better with the large clients that have a lot of money to throw at the project (and have a team to implement recommendations) versus small to mid size business that are very dependent on SEM. I personally feel that those are the people that need the most help as it truly affects their bottom line.
That said, I must say that if a client came to me and said "I'm working with a consultant" the first thing I would look at (on their behalf) was how well that person optimized their own site.
You should consider your site as a client. I'm fortunate that I don't do all the SEM work for our clients on my own and have a great team here. So the duties of marketing our own site gets distributed. But anyway, each month a report is generated the same as all the clients and recommendations are made and put into production.
I understand how the clients have to come first to pay the bills - trust me, I was in that situation for a long time. But at some point, I think independents need to get someone to help them marketing their own site.
Hello,
The fact of the matter is that there is just way to much compeition anymore.. Without the highly popular PPC Advertising which gets the "Wanna Be's" showing at the top of the results pages, we wouldn't have many "Real Organic" SEO Listings.
I mean, we have thousands of Search Engine Optimization companies online but yet over the past year, Not one of the "So Called" expert SEO Firms can knock off Wikipedia's #1 spot on google for search engine optimization..
Why? Because everyone wants to be to technical with their thoughts and portray SEO for google and others as being some rocket science powered only our seo company can do it crap. When, I have yet to see a company really explain how to get a #1 listing.. Those who don't have any seo skills can do it, so why can't these "expert" Seo Companies?
Just my thoughts,Webwonder
My thoughts are along the same line as yours. I just wrote a post responding to that as well, although I was more critical of his stance.
Scoreboard Media Group Doesn’t Get it | SEO is Marketing Online
Those who can’t do, teach.
Say it all really.
And thank god for teachers, I wouldn't be where I am without the good ones.
Sorry, but I consider that to be one of the most ignorant statements around.
Again, it assumes that there could be no reward in helping others to learn and grow. There are many facets to teaching. Yes, some people have little real world experience and are primarily educators of theory, but there are also lots of people who have been very successful in their fields who have gone into teaching because of the reward of sharing that knowledge.
Perhaps the great thing about this environment is that you can continue to do both, and most probably do because everything is in constant flux. A lot of teachers are also drawn not only by the teaching aspect, but by the learning that they continue as well.
This kind of statement is more of a self-serving move to attack or blame someone else for their own failures. If we fail because our teachers were only good enough to teach, maybe we simply didn't learn to begin with.
I agree. Flippant generalisations like that are very silly. They leave no room for very successful people who've taken to teaching their craft. For example, successful athletes who become successful coaches. Successful writers who mentor younger writers... of course I could go on, but I won't.
And those who really can't, sit on the sidelines being sarky (nowt wrong with being sarky, but not without some sort of back up)..
I'm sorry to respond to an old post, and one I've already responded to to boot, but I just haven't been able to get your comment out of my head. I am currently finishing up my undergraduate degree and beginning the process of applying to graduate school to continue my studies. I am not studying computer science or anything directly related to computers, but I work full-time as a web developer to support my family.
Many students love to make comments like this when their professor perhaps isn't the greatest, or (and this is my case) when they've fallen behind in class and are looking for someone to blame. This semester I am a teaching teaching assistant (as opposed to just grading papers behind the scenes) and can I just say, the first time I stepped in front of 46 students and tried to coherently explain material that I thoroughly understand and am very familiar with, it was the hardest thing I have ever done. I gained an entirely new respect for my professors that day, the time they put in preparing lessons and lectures and the crap they put up with from students like you.
I can immediately name to you teachers and professors from throughout my life who have had a profound effect on me.
Lastly, isn't this whole site, the very concept of SEOmoz about teaching? What are you doing here if not trying to learn more about how to carry out your chosen profession in a more effective manner? Every time Rand or Matt post something (or Rebecca, Jane, etc...) I am excited to see what I can find out that I don't know. What new technique can I try. I sure hope thats why you are here.
Apologies for my verboseness, I promise to return to my terse style on my next comment.