I realise that conference recaps aren't usually the most exciting genre of blog posts, so I'll try to keep this both scannable and readable: flip through for the bits you like if you're not into reading it word for word. I won't hold it against you, and you know everyone who says they've never done this is lying!
This session started with Brian Combs of Apogee Search covering some basics about domains and URLs in relation to SEO:
- Begin each web development and business projects with SEO in mind from day one. Thinking about SEO for the first time at day thirty or, better yet, five days before the launch, is a recipe for disaster as well as being potentially expensive.
While we may have heard this before, I'd bet that a fair number of people in the room hadn't really thought of SEO like that. We see quite a few questions in Q&A from people who have been brought into companies to take over their SEO efforts, months or years after a website launched. It's so much harder to fix these things when a site has staff and methods in place which have been in use for a long period of time. - 301 redirects don't necessarily pass all the link strength. We see this question pop up over and over again. While the new site will be credited with most of the old site's history, there still could be a little difference. After all, it's not the same site.
- A static URL may be easier to maintain. More later on rewrites...
- Refer to directories, not files, to avoid file extension changes. To me, that was one of those, "Dude, that's obvious and yet I'd never thought of that" moments, which is one of the reasons to go to conferences.
- Avoid frames and Flash-based files because frames are the creation of the devil. I'd love not to have to write any more on that point, but I should also mention Brian's advice that locational Flash is fine.
- Use a single URL structure. Focus link strength of internal links.
- Keywords in URLs are helpful but not critical. I really would have thought that they were more important than I've heard lately. For some reason, I'm sad about this.
- Limit the parameters and don't use Session IDs. At this point, the two Ebay guys sitting in front of me looked at each other and smiled. I smiled, too.
- Links are more likely to include keywords if your domain includes a keyword. Beware negative branding impacts and spammy-looking domain names. This is an idea that I recently dealt with in Q&A: a person was having difficulty choosing a domain name. He knew that including a keyword in the URL could result in better-targeted links, but he had a good, unique name in mind and wanted to use it. While I don't know which option he chose, that can be a hard choice to make. Do you choose the unique name and embark on a harder marketing / linkbuilding effort, or do you choose the domain with the keyword, knowing that people will be more likely to link to you with better anchor text?
- Challenge: CMS inserts multiple parameters and dynamic components into the URL. Solution: Set up rules around allowing dynamic special characters. For example, replace all special characters, spaces, space encoding with a hyphen.
- Challenge: Channel structure of CMS following navigational breadcrumb can create the same content on multiple URLs. Solution: Implement URL redirects to single preferred URL.
Stephen Spencer of Netconcepts then got very geeky on us with some in-depth information about URL rewriting. He has already made his presentation available for download, although you'll have to go all the way through to Slide 10 to see the presentation he gave us. This stuff is over my head, so I won't try to repeat it here!
Cindy Krum from Blue Moon Works spoke about international site architecture, which is right up my street because I don't like it when people forget about us foreign folk! The provided three options that people can go with when they're marketing to multiple countries and using different languages.
- One site approach. Everything is on the same domain You use subdomains and subdirectories for each separate language / country. It's also solid advice to label each country correctly: don't create germany.example.com when Deutschland is what your users call their country.
The pros of this approach are that it's easy, all links and traffic come to the same place, and yet you can still get country-specific hosting if you're going with subdomains as opposed to subdirectories. The cons are that your homepage is in the "wrong language" for a lot of users. You also have to deal with re-writing content for countries that share a language. The Australian and UK sections can't have identical content.
Cindy mentioned server side translations, showing how this can work with legacy CMSs, meta data, content, and feeds. The downsides are that it's hard to set up, natural inbound links could be in the wrong language, and the translations have to be manually checked for errors. - The Multiple site approach came next, the benefits of which are the ability to add sites one at a time and the possibility of ranking well in multiple country-specific search engines. On the downside, more sites equal more work: more time spent updating content, fixing problems and general upkeep.
- Of course, the blended approach is often most popular, where people are brought to a main site and are able to choose where they go from there. Cindy's view is that this is the most realistic for a world-wide presence. It makes sense to set up country-specific sites as you need them, although you should buy up everything you think you'll need in advance. Negative aspects of this approach include the whole "work" thing, and the fact that this can be technically challenging.
With that said, it's time for me to head back to the SEOmoz booth, where we're giving away SEOmoz tee-shirts and showing off our neat new PRO features. In fact, I'm going to be late for my 5pm start.
Nice recap, Jane. On that subject, I've encountered an interesting dichotomy recently: if you're in a competitive niche, SEO-wise, the weak signals (keywords in URLs, keyword density, etc.) are just that: weak. On the other hand, if you're in a niche where link-backs and other stronger signals are poor (i.e. no one has much of them), the weak signals have a lot more impact. For one of my clients, I'm amazed how much effect URL structures and keyword placement has been, simply because their industry is so bad at SEO.
I agree to that, Peter. I was surprised by that comment since I am mostly working with relatively low competitive SEO and have found this important. This is part of good on-page SEO but of course, if the link juice competition is fierce, the on-page SEO is of lower importance.
ps. sorry about using the dumb link juice word, Jane. Have you come up with another word?
Don't worry about link juice, I'm just glad that I haven't heard anyone referring to nofollow as link condoms for quite a while..
Great recap Jane.
Locational Flash - my assumption would be use of Flash on a page vs. the entire page being served up in Flash.
And Flash isn't entirely a no-no. Like everything, it is the implementation that can go awry. There are secondary ways through progressive enhancement or graceful degradation that the content of the Flash can be served up to the engines. The big gotcha is that the content needs to be a complete match.... if your alternative method content differs or becomes a keyword stuffed tactic, sooner or later you're gonna get burned. Cutts addressed using the Adobe SDK specifically, though there are other methods, with his interview with Stephan at PUBCON (Cutts interview and pdocast).
@Jane - I'm bummed I didn't get around to meeting you at the show...it was a bit more hectic than I was expecting, Chatted with Rebecca for a little bit (our both is right next to yours) and just had a chance to finally introduce myself in person to Rand as I was walking out -- unfortunately had to leave early as the trip was combined with a client on-site. Anyway, enjoy the rest of the show, love the t-shirts, and hope to catch you next time. cheers
Hey Jane,
Thanks for taking time to do this recap. I wanted to make sure that all SEOMoz members have access to my presentation at the session. Please find the presentation (in pdf format) at this link -
SMX West - Demystifying URLs
Thanks,
Navneet Virk, Roundarch
this is a really great re-cap. i love the scannable format, jane. sometimes i put off reading your posts when i open it up and see the long paragraphs so this was nice.
and uh...how do we (poor souls whose bosses won't send them to smx) get our hands on a seomoz t-shirt?
Awsome info.
Stephen Spencer presentation came just in time for me. We are dealing exactly with the whole URL re-writing issue and even though "not critical" they are "helpful" and as you know to get to top ranking we need all the help we can get, specially if all competition is doing it.
Thanks
By session id's are you talking about session id's in the code or showing those values in the url? I never show them in the url because it looks really bad and it seems somewhat unsecure, but I would think any way to get around sessions in the code (namely cookies) would have equally detrimental effects from a SEO perspective (Googlebot can't get to protected pages/sections)
Great recap, thanks!
Like the way you posted this, without personal opinion, you just gave it straight as the "experts" told it.
Maybe not that good if you had attented the session itself, but as I think the majority of readers didn't attend, it is very nice to see such a post!
A real good thing, as the other posts are somewhat, well don't know really, but not that interesting...
Interesting post about URL and some related factors and I appreciate it.. :)
Thanks for the write up, Jane!
Just wanted to clarify that by "locational Flash", I did in fact mean widgets on the page. Don't do the entire site in Flash, and I'd recommend not doing your navigation in Flash, but much of the functionality of a Flash site can be replicated using widgets.
Just remember that the "content" in the widget is not feeding any text to the robots.
Thanks Jane that was fun, and interesting.
Looking for urls are fun. I do keep seo in mind but it can also be fun without in mind. I can spend a whole day online looking for good urls. Thank you for the insightful post.
Thanks for the great review Jane. Hopefully I'll be able to go to one of these convention some day in the future.
@ Jane: After re-reading this post again, I want to say thanks for an awesome re-cap and great resources for us newbies to use and pass on to professors and classmates: I.E. Brian Combs Apogee Search and Navneet Virk of Roundarch.
Thanks fo the great review!!
Great post and all very relevant to several jobs we have on at the moment. Any chance of expanding on the 'refer to directories' point - not quite sure I understand what you're getting at here (it is early after all).
Maybe they took the Do Not Disturb sign from your door so that they could remove the rogue T.
Sorry - pot, kettle, black - I know; I just couldn't resist!
I have nothing, at this point. Absolutely nothing.
You have you - and, I hope, you have Guinness.
It took some effort, but I fixed it.
I imagine that 'refer to directories' means:
bad - www.seonoz.com/hello.php
good - www.seonoz.com/hello/
With the latter, you can change extensions as necessary without needing to do any fancy redirects.
Gotcha - thanks.
Hiya Jane. exSEOllent post yet again...please explain locational flash, as it is the first time I've heard the phrase. Flash is considered an absolute no-no, and flash content on pages rank badly in our website evaluation spreadsheet.
Then would like to comment on "Keywords in URL's are helpful but not critical" followed by "Links are more likely to include keywords if your domain includes a keyword"....bit of a contradiction here, as I'm under the impression that that keywords in the URL is extremely desirable, for obvious reasons.
Enjoy the rest of your time at SMX West...booth manning can be fun...
Hi Jane,
What is locational Flash?
If I had to hazard a guess she would be referring to flash in different locations in the site. Like a widget, or some sort. Just don't don't base your site structure on it.
I have an example of my own about flash and its seo implications. My web design firm's site was originially fully flash, recently iI moved from flash to a standard html structure and after that change I moved up 48 spots for one of my top 3 keyword phrases. I'm still page 5 for it, but I have several changes that I'm going to implement that should help. I'm fully convinced that the move from a fully flash based structure made a huge difference.
Matt :-)
Thanks, Matt; that makes sense.
In that case, "locational flash" wouldn't be content -- as it would have no keywords or links in it.
P.S. Good luck with the rest of the changes to that site.
(Edited to wish Matt good luck.)
I wonder what loational flash would mean? Does it really matter where on the page is the flash object located ?
Great post. I really do appreciate these conference reports if for no other reason than they give you an overview of what is considered important in the industry right now.
It is stimulating a lot of questions which is a good sign I think for a conference report. My questions:
A static URL may be easier to maintain - maintain how?
Use a single URL structure - what does that mean
Why attend conferences, when we've got you :)
I love that quote:
Thanks for the report, Jane.
good review, and thank you for posting it. Santa Clara is not that close to my place/country, so it is nice from you to write down what you listen to. :-)
Regarding the multiple site approach, I have to do that with one of my clients, who's based in France, but as got offices in Italy, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Portugal and Spain. So you can imagine the hassle when we set up each site for each country, and implement the SEO on each of them. Nevertheless, I must say that it is the most efficient thing to do, especially that we got those country specific endings on the URL such as .fr, or .it for instance. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that those country sites show up in a higher position compared to the dot com (their corporate site), in each country. Has anyone else been testing that as well ?
No doubt about that, BottomTurn. Google detects where you are coming from and ranks pages with the appropriate country TLD higher based on that.
Great post Jane.
Why did your good self and the two Ebay employees smile about session IDs? Because you think it's obvious, or because you think it's wrong?
Personally I don't like session IDs. I think they're ugly, unfriendly and the amount of work required in getting around them is a pain. Give me a well thought out cookie any day.
I thought that 'locational flash' might be referring to the use of flash-based maps, but perhaps it's referring to the use of a flash-based site navigation system (although most SEOs would agree that text nav is the best option)... I await enlightenment!
Very good round-up, Jane.
The part about multilingual sites seemed specifically interesting to me as per my experience no matter how many times you might have come across this question, you still never know what is the best option. The hard-work aspect always comes to mind with all three options btw.
And I really like the format you chose: listing the main points and a few words of explanation. Nice job!
WOW!! Great post!
I've Been doing alot of commenting about how universities aren't teaching this SE, Internet Marketing info. in courses in college.
Is this conference available on DVD so it can be shown in a lecture hall? :)
It sounds awesome, some day.......