(Prelude from Rand: The following comes from the lovely, talented Mystery Guest, who felt that we in the SEO industry needed, nay, earned a bit of her outsider's perspective. Thanks, kiddo - you rock.)
A lot of people are under the erroneous impression that I am not only part of the SEO industry, but that I have an extensive understanding of SEO, in general.
This is woefully untrue. I'm pretty much clueless as to most of what Rand does. I've just never been that technologically savvy. Recently, we were given an iShuffle by a gentleman at a conference. I think I broke the thing. When I logged out of iTunes and tried to eject the player, the CD drive on Rand's computer popped open. Rand laughed hysterically at this. Later, I found that after 2 and a half hours of trying, I succeeded in uploading only one song to my MP3 player (“Float On” by Modest Mouse. And yes, I'm sure if I listen to it enough, it will probably come around again. But that will be after I've gone crazy, and, fittingly, crashed my car into a cop car).
So naturally, if I can't get one of the (supposedly) easiest mp3 interfaces to work, my hopes of understanding algorithms and search engines are pretty grim. But here's the real rub – even knowing as little as I do about SEO, I'm kind of the resident expert at my company. I know quite a bit more than everyone else, and when questions pop up people often come to me for answers. I'm guessing that a lot of you deal with clients whose knowledge is equal to or less than mine, so I thought I might share with you what I believe a true SEO beginner knows and doesn't know. Keep in mind, I'm simply basing this on my experiences, and consequently, all of this evidence is anecdotal. Also, I want to make it clear that I work with some very smart people, many of whom have experience working for major online retailers (the biggest online retailers there are).
- Keep the Language Clean. Some people don't even know what SEO is. Often when discussing what Rand does to outsiders, I just say, “Internet marketing”. So please, for the love of Pete, don't launch into SERPs, trackbacks, 301 redirects, or any of those other terms. You might conclude that by talking that way, a potential client will think, “Ah! He clearly knows a good deal about this, even though I don't have any idea what the hell he's saying”. But really, I think they'd much rather know what you were doing. Understanding breeds trust. Try slowly explaining things as you go along. A list of glossary terms can't hurt. There's even one in The Beginners' Guide.
- DeMystify the Search Engine. I have no idea why the hell Ask.com ads mention an algorithm. I can't imagine anyone outside of the SEO industry knowing what that means (also, the commercials ridicule the guy who doesn't know what the algorithm is. Why? Who wants to use a search engine that mocks them?). Most people barely grasp the idea that search engines are corporations – that they actually make money, and aren't simply an index that comes free with the Internet (like the phone book. Wait, does Yellow Pages make money? They must. Through ads, right? Hmm ... now I can't tell if that example is apt or not). And most people I work with exclusively use Google. Most are not familiar with MSN Search (and we live in Seattle), and I know only a handful that use Yahoo!. So they really, really aren't going to get that there's an algorithm behind all of it. The best approach when dealing with people who have this background is to make it clear what search engines really are and how they arrive at results.
- Not All Engines are Created Equal. Now that you've (hopefully) explained how engines work, it's time to differentiate them. Make sure your client understands that different engines return different results. And, true to my beginner status, I don't really get why this is true. I sort of think they should all provide the same info. So you'll probably want to explain that, too. Ooh – and they probably get this (since, hey – they're contacting you after all) but a lot of people don't get that rankings fluctuate, and, like the song goes, that you can be riding high in April, shot down in May.
- Nobody Understands Spam. My boss is a smart dude (I say this un-ironically. He's great.). He's had high-ranking positions at some major online retailers. He's also totally clueless about how spam works. A few months ago, we started receiving spam comments on our blog. “How are these guys finding us?” was his first reaction. He didn't understand that the whole process was automated (I had to explain “bots” to him), and completely indiscriminate. Then, as he was looking through the comments (which I think scarred him pretty badly, because they were pretty dark), he told me, “I don't get it – this stuff doesn't even make sense. Who would click on that link?” (Answer: anyone who wants to read about “crazy anal mortgage cheerleader beaver cell phone”). I had to explain the whole purpose of anchor text, and the role it plays in ranking for terms. This was shocking to him. Most people see links as something you click on, and that's it. Which leads me to my next point...
- Nobody Understands Links. We see them as something to click on. That's the entirety of their purpose. Few people understand that links actually contribute to rankings, and that anchor text is important (the only reason I know is that Rand made me edit The Beginners' Guide). Given to their own devices, their links will all read “click here” because it makes sense contextually. And most people don't know about paid links or sponsor results. They just assume it's Kosher, even when it's clearly not.
- Meta Tags Make the World Go 'Round. Okay, yes, I know they don't actually. But if someone knows only one thing about SEO, it's meta tags. The concept is fairly simple, so people figure it's the explanation behind everything (like String Theory, which is also likely a bunch of crap). So one thing you'll need to do is debunk the myth of meta tags. If you have solid examples of them not working, that would help. Also, and this is just me confessing stuff again, but I don't actually know what meta tags are. I mean, I think they are in brackets in the code of a page, and maybe they're somewhat like title tags. So I'm guessing that even people who think they know what they are, don't.
- Meta Tags II: Rise of PageRank. Like meta tags, people latch onto the concept of PageRank, and assume that it is the answer to life's ultimate questions (but, duh, it's 42. Seriously). And I just learned that it's named after Larry Page, and not, you know the fact that it ranks your pages. Also, I don't really know what PageRank is. I know that it's on a scale of 10, and I think that at one point, links from pages with high PageRank were more valuable (see? Why does it have to refer to his last name? WHY DO YOU DAMN SEOs MAKE THINGS HARDER THAN THEY NEED TO BE?!!!! ... ahem. Sorry. I lost it a little. I'm fine now). Anyway, if PageRank isn't valuable, you should probably explain that. If it is, you should quantify it.
- Oooh ... Keywords. Once someone learns anything about keywords, they become like a chubby kid at fat camp who's just stumbled upon a hidden stash of Oreos. They'll likely try and cram them in wherever they can, even if it's clearly not a good idea. It's probably in your best interest to explain exactly how keywords work, and why stuffing is a bad idea.
Yawn. Okay. That's all, because I'm tired and I don't know how Rand does this almost every damn day. My job requires blogging of a much easier nature ... which brings me to my shameless plug! <shameless> Check out the Cranium blog. </shameless> Thank you.
(postscript from Rand: Yes, Mystery Guest really does write this brilliantly all the time, and if it weren't for the fact that she's wearing a ring I gave her, I would certainly do my best to hire her away and make her a permanent fixture on the blog.)
Rock the house! When I have to give a dev team an in-house intro to SEO, I like to ask a few questions to gauge the level of knowledge (and break the ice). As an example, I recently showed this slide to one of our (geekier) developer teams:
"One set of acronyms belongs to weapon systems found on 31st century mechwarriors. The other set are from search marketing. (1 point)"
After a few more questions, I gifted some Google swag to the attendee with the highest score (hint: google gear is the ultimate in geek cred) and promise even more G paraphenalia at the end of the presentation.
If I had to offer a single tip for introducing beginners to SEO, it would be one universal to all education:
Don't Be Boring.
Although you can be endlessly entertained by any search-related information, the audience listening to your dry and stale SEO101 Powerpoint are going to tune you out before you finish your first slide. Throw lots of SHARP objects at the audience - stories, humor, analogies, references and pictures. These all serve to keep your presentation relevant and the crowd engaged.
Note: Customize your sharpies to the audience. The geeks in the crew loved the hat tip to Mechwarrior, but I don't think it'd have quite the same effect on CXO level execs.
Good work there MG - there's a big danger in SEO (and indeed in the wider world of media) that we end up talking to ourselves. Demistifying can be, I think, one of the best things that an SEO can do.
Only last week I had a meeting with a potential client at the end of which he thanked me for not bull-sh*tting him. By being open & honest about SEO, and what it can & can't do, I think I probably gave us a much better chance of winning his business than any amount of smoke & mirrors would have done.
Learning to explain SEO in plain, clear English (or whatever your native language is), should be as much of a necessity for people in this industry as an understanding of how the engines work.
For this, I tend to rely on my parents. I catch-up with them for dinner one night a week and they'll often ask me how work is going. If I'm able to explain a few SEO concepts to them and they actually understand, I know I'm on the right track for my clients.
I'm going to echo what everyone is saying - this is a great post. It's really a challenge to explain SEO to non-technical people. A lot of my recent clients have truly been clueless when it comes to internet marketing/seo. They all started with "hearing someone at a party say SEO". They then do a search on Google and get overwhelmed with info.
However, I like these clients the best! It is supremely powerful when you can sit in a room with a computer and start to explain things and answer their questions about SEO. No presentation, no fluff. Just simple, plain english. This helps build trust and clients really appreciate someone who is willing to take the time to sit with them and answer their "dumb questions".
I usually spend a few hours discussing general internet marketing and answering questions. Once the work starts I'll come back at least once a month and spend as much time as they want explaining my work and answering more questions for them.
The best part is that an educated client, though he still might have no clue what's going on, will usually stay out of your way and let you make the changes you feel are necessary. Whereas in the corporate world you get a lot of, "no we can't do that because the CEO/CTO/etc don't want it that way."
The clients you also take the time to really sit with and educate also generally give you the best referrals.
MG, it was great to meet you at the SEOmoz party and actually see your interactions with Rand vs just reading them here. You are both truly a great fit for each other. I'm sure one day you will have a story to share similar to the one Mike told us about meeting his wife.
He he! Good post Mystery Guest. I especially like the bit about Meta tags. However, if another 'beginner' asks me to make sure the Meta tags are set up, I will reserve the right to bludgeon them to death with my Google Toolbar.
Hey I wonder if the person who invented the Google Toolbar had a last name of 'Tool'? That'd be consistent with their naming strategy for PageRank, wouldn't it?
Haha, MG. The sales lady at my company LOVES latching onto either meta tags or PageRank. You really hit the nail on the head. Even if I give her better ways of explaining it, she'll instinctively revert to these terms. I'm not bashing her. It takes guts to sell something you don't understand. But her love of these terms says a lot about how simple it COULD seem, if PageRank meant what she thinks and if meta tags were as big a deal as they seem.
As a self-trained SEO (who isn't?) I've only recently tentatively offered to do link-building for our clients mostly because I'm still trying to think of a good way to explain it to the saleslady so she can explain it to the client. It's a dangerous game of telephone.
I hate it when doctors start explaining things using terms nobody understands. Now, I know how our clients must feel!
Try this:
"I'm sorry, but the idea that you're going to understand this is slightly ridiculous. Here's what you need to know: it's expensive, there's no guarantees. You should do it."
Does that work for you often?
Pretty much. If I go to a doctor, I know I'm not going to understand what's being said. And that doesn't matter. I've got a problem, and they have a solution. Don't bother trying to explain it to me, just fix it.
Same with SEO, and lots of marketing stuff; explain to them why it's pointless explaining it to them, and get them to just let you get on with it.
Trust is important.
Fair point. Those clients are going to be the good ones too - the ones where you can say "let's try this" and they say "ok".
I hope you have a trustworthy doctor ;)
Yeh, he's pretty good. It's a good general rule of thumb for life though - if you hire an expert, let them do their job. You're not an expert, which is why you hired them. What's the point in hiring someone just to tell them how to do their job, when you went to them in the first place because they know better?
Hmm ... actually, I have to say I disagree with that. I have never, nor can I ever imagine, telling a doctor, "Just do it. I don't need to know why you're doing it." But perhaps it's just not an apt analogy - I can imagine people are more willing to try things they don't understand when it comes to SEO rather than their own bodies.
You get the idea though.
I mean, if your doctor had a spepecialism in nephrology, and said you had idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, which should be treated with a course of DMARDs, probably adalimumab, would you have the foggiest what he meant, or would you just accept that the guy knows what he's talking about and take the meds anyway?
I'd just take the meds. The same goes for SEO. We can explain what we do until the cows come home, but in the end so much of it is beyond the grasp of our clients unless we literally set out to teach them how to do SEO, and give them a few years to practise, they realistically aren't going to "get" it.
What they need is to accept that, move on and let you do your job.
well put...makes perfect "sense".
:) Thanks.
Yeah, I'm going with MG - bad analogy on that one. Maybe if it was a great accountant who explained how using different types of accounts set up for specialized holding companies could save you money on your taxes, that would be more apt.
With doctors - I want to know every detail right down to the frickin' cellular level. I've already been around a lot of "great" doctors who've erred or misinformed in such a way that proved to be damaging later on. Don't take chances with your doctors, Pete, especially if it's serious.
I suppose that in either case, you should be prepared for both kinds of clients. Some might be willing to swallow the pill without asking any questions. Others want it explained to them - and I don't necessary think their questions are a challenge of anyone's capabilities or services. They simply want to understand what's going on with their company (or their bodies). I just thought I'd try to shed light on that.
I think the idea that you will get both kind of clients is key. Speaking for myself I wouldn't let a doctor do anything to me until I understood as best as I could what he was doing. Everything can be explained so an industry outsider can understand. You just have to throw away the jargon and explain things in their language.
I'm also the type that would have my doctor write everything down so I could research it myself. But I can accept that I'm one side of things and there might be others would just go ahead and trust on blind faith.
As someone who works in an industry that leaves many clueless I take pride in being able to explain as best as I can what it is I'm going to do. My attitude is if a client doesn't understand then I haven't done a good job explaining things. Taking the time to help your clients understand leads to a trusting relationship.
I would take the pill if you asked :)
I think the analogy speaks more to customer service than a specific industry. It is a good point. One could say that thats how you determine if you doctor is good. If he/she can simplify something to the point of understanding and feeling comfortable with it, they likely have a good enough understanding of the industry to be trusted.
SEO works the same way. I've had clients ask me about specific jargon, and the more simplistic answer I provide, the more comfortable they are with me as their developer.
I guess the most important part for SEOs to take from this is try to stay away from jargon if it's not appropriate, and always be honest.
James Pederson
Haha, GREAT summary! I am constantly telling clients "Well, I can give you a lightning-round run-through of what I do in about an hour, you can pay me for it and not remember a thing I said next week, OR you can just pay me to do my job."
Could not agree MORE about the fixation on Meta Tags as what SEO is about, and the complete ignorance about the importance of links by most clients out there.
Rand, if not a full-time position, how about a romantic-dinner- or day-trip-to-spa-per-post pricing structure for MG? :) This was great!
Very nice. And as for...
"So please, for the love of Pete, don't launch into SERPs, trackbacks, 301 redirects, or any of those other terms"
...for the love of me?
Haha. Watch out Rand - Freudian slip there ;)
Seriously - great article MG. Well written (and I've subscribed to the Cranium blog in the hope of getting more insightful stuff, though not necessarily about SEO), so it was worth writing too...
On the subject of Cranium, can you get rid of the humming round? All my friends laugh at me because I am so tuneless...
...and while I can't talk (given the length of my engagement) when are you guys getting married?
What a magic post to remember.
Shaun
Surprisingly I've read it fully,,,.. that too without a bit of coffin...
Superb writeup!
I think it makes great sense to explain everything as simple as you possibly can to the people. You don't 'drive traffic and convert visitors' but 'make things noticeable on the Internet', etc.
So true.
We even keep a "dumbed-down" guy in our office for these very same reasons. He gives us direct input on what the "average" customer would think or how they may react to new campaigns. A lot of the time we don't know what our average customers actually think or we are biased because we work in this industry and talk to tohers who know much of what the average joe doesn't.
For me it's like when I talk to a doctor or other professional. They use big words and usually confuse me before the first three words are spoken. I try and use analogies as much as possible, people seem to understand better when it's explained in a way they can relate to.
Analogies are a great way to explain things. I usually try my best to ask clients questions and understand where they're coming from and look for things in what they say that relates to what I might be trying to explain. It ensures the conversation is in their language and not mine.
And when I need to find out what the average customer might actually think I ask my family none of whom do anything on the web more than casually surf and buy things.
Analogies are definitely the way to go:
Title tags - the headline of a web page
Description tags (via snippets in SERPS) - your chance to promote your USP: Why should I click on this link
Links - like votes from other sites
yada yada yada......
Good examples.
Analogies work so well because you can relate something someone doesn't understand to something they do. If you get the right analogy you can teach people things that previously confused them.
I often think that much of the reason for my (relative) success in this field is that my love of puns means that I can often find a simple way of expressing quite technical ideas.
That or all the photos I have of people....
"We even keep a "dumbed-down" guy in our office for these very same reasons."
I'm reworking my resume now, in hopes of landing a gig like this. Wait til they see just how little I know! They'll have to hire me!
There are lines they we all wish we had come up with... and this is one of them! Kudos, Max.
I've read this post and earlier another one on simplicity. Both are equally good, and the top conclusion one must draw is that as long as you have your website clean, neat, and with original information, you can have excellent results just by abiding by the most elementary SEO rules. Any beginner can have great rankings by simply building good content and doing no black SEO.
Also, I think people must takes things one at a time, because if you read, study, do that, do this, and try to accummulate as much SEO info as possible, within a very short time, this can in fact harm you instead of helping you. Patience is everything.
I'd have to strongly disagree with your opinions. Many companies feel this same way, but when they actually find some time to dive deeply into the world of SEO, or bring in an SEO consultant or make a hire, they find that their traffic opportunities are immense because they've simply "played by the rules" but haven't taken the time to put concerted effort into it.
It's like saying that anyone can play Mozart's symphonies so long as you hit the right notes at the right times... or that you can achieve everything you want in the TV advertising world so long as you abide by the FCC's guidelines.
I'm with Rand on this.
Can anyone do SEO? Absolutely... but whether it makes sense to or they are willing to invest the time, education, etc. is another matter.
Some industries are just way more competitive than others. Some tersm are just way more competitive than others.
No matter how you slice it, when you are talking rankings, there are millions of pages for nearly every search and it's safe to say that there are more than 10 sites for any search that are more than happy to "play by the rules" and develop great sites with great content, etc., but the reality is...
The question here in Austin is who doesn't do SEO.
I used to have to deal with "Well my son-in-law kinda does my web page."
Then it was " Well I do my own web page"
Now it's "Hey my page is number 55 on google .... oops, now it's number 3 ... hey, now it's gone!
Hear my plea ..... NoMoSEO.
Nice well written article. I'll be sure to share this with some of my friends that need help with their SEO.
Definitely a good help to seo beginers. Very well written and quoted the points. Liked it. Thumbs up to you.
hey MG :) now you see, or rather I see... it takes someone who lives with someone who knows SEO, who doesn't know seo (or didn't) to really get it and put it down in a format that helps people who think they know SEO 'get-it', and assists those who really do and are all myopic to take a step back and remember that there really are people out there who have no idea what a meta tag is, and until they heard about SEO - really didn't give a sparrow's fart either.
You know, this is my thing-I-learned/realised/re-realised-today. I generally speak fast, have a weird accent (apparently - I don't think so), and clarifying things in laymans terms to assist the buy and progression of seo services is valid across all clients, big or small - you really don't want to make the incredibly intelligent head of e-commerce at Nike (example) feel thick because he doesn't get what you're on about... you know? So thanks for putting some airborne tootsies back on terrafirma.
I have learnt this through experience. Once we teach a client too much of SEO, then we are in for trouble. There are a 100 questions raised if we adopt a certain strategy and also the same if we were to ask for a Press Release. Excellent post.
Absolutely great post and something I think we all need to be reminded about at times. One thing for those trying to explain things to clients is you always have to listen to your clients and work to understand how much or how little they understand. Concepts that will seem very basic to us aren't necessarily basic to someone else.
Years ago a friend of a friend asked me to help her pass a a pre-calculous exam. She wasn't understand at all, but the real problem was she didn't have a good understanding of alegbra. Once I was able to see that it became much easier to see where she needed help and where we had to focus.
We may have to have a deeper conversation at the next Chinese food run we go on... San Jose I think... if Rand is not explaining it right I guess one of the rest of the crew will have to step up....
It starts with a lot of drinking.....
And ends with: 'Crazy anal mortgage cheerleader beaver cell phone is a brilliant search query!'
Beautifully brilliant!
This seems to be the case in any industry... familiarity and all... but especially true in SEO, and all the more dangerous when the gap between understanding and clueless is so wide.
Great comments about Ask and the algo... shows that even the search engines don't get it, unless they are specifically targeting the "in-the-crowd" in which case they should know that mass-marketing a target audience is kind of foolish.
You've recapped an issue that I mention a lot and I think it will always need to be done. And being a semi-outisder, you did it much better as well.
There will always be more people who understand less about SEO/M and less people who understand more. Assuming that the person you are talking to falls into the latter is just plain silly.
Ask's campaign confuses me as well. All I can think is they are trying to target the the early adopter types, but I think it's been clear that the message isn't work on them.
What I really don't get is what Ask doesn't make more use of their name. It's so perfect for a search engine.
"Need to find something on the web? Just Ask"
"Ask the search engine"
"All you have to do is Ask"
Seems like so many easy ways to go that would work much better than algorithms which the tech savvy think are Google ads and the non-tech savvy could care less about.
Firstly, you work at Cranium? I'm jealous. I saw some video of the Cranium offices. I've thought about bringing a scooter to the offices here at FI. But I can't stay on my kids' scooters for longer than two seconds.
Secondly, you let Rand call you kiddo?
It's fair considering what I call him.
Yeah I have heard her... such a sweet voice and THE Language!!!!!
I know - the vocal equivalent of barbed wire rose (or something - it's late here, cionsidering what time I started - I need to go home)
;)
Mystery Guest, I feel like such a geek as I chuckled all the way through! Really well written point-out-your-geekiness article for me. I'm guilty of many of those (I try really hard not to confuse my clients though!)
I have a simialr process to SiteMost (commented above). Early on I used to run things past my wife, who has no technical undestanding at all. If she understood, I knew it was a good place to start.
This was a fun post to rea. Good idea posting it on for our first Monday morning read!
Yeah, I also run things by my girlfriend, but she knows a bunch of SEO basics since I'm always going on about new things I've read (I'm sure she doesn't pay much attention to my SEO ramblings) but she still knows a lot more than my folks.
he he! true, true and funny.
is that true? i didn't know that either.
great post mg. i agree, you should write here more often.
It is indeed true
Thanks. What a fun read. You should contribute here more often.
Wonderful post, and I agree entirely about using simplicity.
There is like a computer chip embedded in SEO's that makes them, even when they are attempting not to, talk technical.
Great idea for a post, thanks.
I loved this post MG. I am the non-techy person in our web department & I get to be the one that has to ask the guys to tell me again what this does, or how that works. (Since I am usually the one that has to answer the clients' questions). As I am learning all about SEO I think that the points you made were all the same things I ask them to refresh me on daily. Great job!
Nice list Mystery Guest. I bet we could add more. probably just need to quiz more relatives and friends on what we all think about our biz.
I think that's a great idea. The parent or outsider test is always a good one.
A very good read!
An SEO firm I used to work for had this problem from both ends - when someone was speaking to the sales staff, everything would mostly be fine until either the sales guy or the customer dropped a 'technical' term into the conversation, at which point it would become like a bidding war, where each person tries to out-tech the other, neither player really understanding what they were talking about!
On occasions where the customer was very tech-happy, or just wanted something technical explaining, they'd get put through to the tech staff, who would then drown them exclusively in Jargon.
Articles like this should be like a bible for anyone in a tech industry.
I particularly liked the mention of Meta-Tags. It does take a long time for information from a specialised arena to filter into the public consciousness - I can give you an example from the world of home computers, where people are even now telling each other to "defrag, it speeds things up" and "use kazzaa".