In this week's Whiteboard Friday, we are going to be discussing the differences between vendors and consultants. We are very excited to have Rhea Drysdale in the studio to present on this very insightful topic. Rhea is one of the leaders in SEO consulting services, but she hasn't always been. Nope, she used to be *cough,* a vendor. Now, there's not anything wrong with being a vendor, but if you've always seen yourself as a consultant it can be quite a shock to discover otherwise.
Vendors and consultants play two very different roles and you may soon discover that you are not exactly the one that you thought you were.
Please share your thoughts on these differences in the comments below. Happy Friday everyone! Enjoy!
P.S. Rhea doesn't really talk about herself in the 3rd person. I wrote this ;) - Kenny
Video Transcription
Hi guys. I'm Rhea Drysdale, CEO of Outspoken Media, and we are an internet marketing company that specializes in SEO, reputation management, link development, and social media marketing. I'm here today in the SEOmoz office, because our team is attending SMX Advanced. Many of you probably know of Outspoken Media because we're doing live blog coverage of the conference, and I hope to meet many of you here today.
I want to go ahead and talk a little bit, with this Whiteboard Friday, about the difference between vendors and consultants. For us, that's a really big thing. At Outspoken Media, we've been doing a lot of organizational development over the last couple of months, and it's really turned our entire business model inside out. The reason that we got there is that we were recognizing that there is a lot of turnover with some of our clients, where there's a situation that a middle manager would, perhaps, leave the organization, and in those cases, we would often get replaced. Why did that happen? It usually happened because we were just seen as a vendor. We were basically like the McDonald's of link development, where someone came in and said, "I want X number of links and I want to improve my rankings and that's it."
But for us, we took ourselves much more seriously. Just because the client didn't, there was some communication breakdown that was taking place, and we had to say, "Okay. How do we position ourselves to be much more trusted, establish a long-term relationship, really get to know their business model, and work with them to grow that business, not just meet, link and ranking metrics?"
So with that in mind, we brought on an organizational development consultant ourselves. His name is Shem Cohen, of Change Events. He's phenomenal, and he sat down and said, "Well, you're a vendor." It really struck me, because I said, "No, I'm not a vendor. I'm not a vendor, because we're actually ranking on our site with SEO consulting, and for years we've been calling ourselves SEO consultants." He said, "I hate to tell you, you really are a vendor." Finally I kind of let that settle and admitted it.
Once I recognized what a vendor was, it helped me to see where we had to get to, to become a consultant. So let's talk about that today, because you might find yourself in the same situation as us, or maybe you're the client and you're not quite sure who you should be hiring. What makes more sense for your business?
On the vendor side, there are a couple of things that make you a vendor. With a vendor, you're probably really good at doing something, which is great. However, that something is probably a highly specialized skill, maybe link development or content creation. It's one kind of area. It's not necessarily informing a full business strategy. So with the vendor, you're usually responsible with taking strategy in from the client, and once you have that strategy, it informs the tactics and the tools and the implementation and the reporting that you're going to do for that client. You're responsible for those areas of your business, but the strategy is coming from the client. It's not coming from you. So that's kind of the main, main thing there is that you're not really informing that strategy, except in rare cases. But for the most part, you're kind of there on a project basis. Maybe there are certain rankings they want to achieve. They really want to bulk up the on-page optimization for a certain category or a new product launch. So you're there for kind of a short-term thing, and maybe you actually do have a long-term contract of a year or more, but in those cases, you're still on reporting on links or rankings. You don't have full access to data. You're not there on an executive level. You're not informing the business strategy on their end. You're just kind of managing your project.
So that's kind of the main thing. What the client is typically having to report to you, and as a client you should remember this, you need to be holding the vendor accountable for the metrics that they have in place and for communicating with a single point of contact. Otherwise, things can kind of get a little bit confusing.
Vendors are great because everybody needs someone to get a job done with highly skilled labor. But, again, that vendor doesn't really maybe have that long-term relationship where, if you're a consultancy, you want to have the long-term relationships that you're building up trust with. You can do a lot more in terms of SEO, and I feel better at the end of the day when we're a consultant. So that's a vendor.
Now what makes you a consultant? A consultant is someone who receives the business goals from the client, but then they communicate the strategy back to the client, and say, "What we're hearing from you is this is what you want to achieve, but in order to do that we're recommending that you pursue these different methods, which we're going to help you with or maybe we're going to actually bring on different resources or we're going to help manage resources within your own organization and staff this project."
You're going to manage, potentially, other vendors if you're a consultant. So you might be bringing other people in on projects that you're in charge of, based on the overarching strategy that you've created for the clients.This is also going to be something that's usually relationship-based. You're probably getting invited to communions for your clients' kids and weddings and anniversaries, and all those things, because you love each other. So that's much more relationship-based.
You're also informing, on the consultant side, the tool selection for the client. What I mean by that is that, with the client and the vendor, the client will usually just go to the vendor and say, "Hey look, this is our CMS and this is what we have to work with." With a consultant, they're saying, "Hey, we're not thinking that our current CMS is working. What do you recommend?" They're asking you to actually tell them that. That's a really powerful place to be, because now you can effect so much more change.
So internal tool selection and then on the ultimate side of the consultant relationship, you're informing business decisions with the client. That's really the most major thing, is that you're changing their business. You're there. You're in this trusting relationship. On the client side, what you have to remember, with the consultant, is that in addition to communicating your business goals and your resources and your time frame and being truly honest and forthcoming with them, you also need to give them access to your different departmental resources and really let them know what you can truly do and what you're capable of. More important, you need to give them access to your data. Sometimes that can be scary, but we can't come up with a strategy or improve your business unless we have full access to that data. It's reliable and we can help, maybe, sculpt that in analytics and choose the right program that's going to give us the data that we need.
Then lastly, there are probably going to be multiple contacts on the clients' side that the consultant is communicating with. We've probably met IT. In my case, I've probably bribed IT with donuts and gone down and visited them. In addition to that, we know your SEO team. We know your community managers. We know the executives. We've been there. In certain organizations, I know Distilled loves to go down and work out of the office. That's a much more, kind of mutually beneficial relationship. Everyone's on the same page. So there are multiple contacts and that's okay, because you're getting paid to do that kind of work.
So that's the real big difference between vendor and consultant, and hopefully that helps give you a better understanding of where you lie in the hemisphere of SEO, from vendor to consultant, and independent consultants and big consultancies. There are all kinds of different terms out there. So let me know what you are, and hopefully this was helpful. Thank you so much.
Great to see you in that WBF, Rhea.
First step for becoming a consultant will be for most of the people setting up a business as a vendor. Very few people will become a consultant from the beginning. For being a consultant you have to have success, money (to hire people), a lot of skills and business practice.
I agree with you! The client will decide our category. I consider myself as a vendor, because we have to give promise to clients respective to the money they are spending. What I have seen in our industry that client comes to us with their expectations like these are the keywords I want ranking or I need number of visitors weekly or monthly or I need number of likes, shares or +1s on social media etc. Then we have to decide the strategy to achieve that goal. In some cases we have full or partial data access. So all these activities put me in between, but as I have said I consider myself as vendor. :)
Fortunately, we need both. Also, being a vendor usually means you can scale better and achieve a higher profitability!
Really awesome comment I agreed.
I couldn't agree more!
You made my day Rhea ;-)
Outstanding WBF! Listening the way you explained the difference between the two criteria makes it sounds more interesting and makes it easier to understand. Good Job and MORE...PLS!
I know some very successful independent consultants who have always been just that (vs vendors at the start). It wasn't about needing money or team members, it's just how they operated from the beginning with the recognition that they'd have less projects, but much more involvement with strategy and resource allocation, usually within the client's own organization.
I've seen this happen in our industry most often with senior level SEOs who decided to trade in their high-powered desk job for the flexibility of family or personal schedules. They would often transition with their former employer as their first client and that trusting relationship set the standard for future projects. Would love to see some of them chime in if anyone is still stalking this post. ;)
great WBF Rhea.
i am actually in the transition from vendor to pure consultancy. the highest difficulty i find when doing consultancies is related to the grade of narrowness a client may have, meaning with that how open he is about accepting potential big changes in his online marketing strategy.
said that, consultancy can be very rewarding (not just in monetary terms).
Ah, if client start asking me to go to their kids' celebrations, i think i could gain gazillions travel points.
Great to hear! Good luck.
And definitely, that is one of the greatest challenges with SEO...real SEO impact comes from big things (e.g., technical/architectural, strategical, etc.) and they need to be 1) open to that and often 2) capable from a resource perspective.
Even when you can find one or the other, getting the client to a point where both of those line up can be a challenge.
Gianluca, it is so rewarding. My team feels greater job satisfaction with the transition. Yes, vendors scale faster and make more money, but you know what? I'm fine being a lifestyle business. We employ an awesome team who feel professional fulfilled. The relationships we build with each other and our clients are rewarding. That makes it much easier to come into work everyday! Anyways... I'm getting rant-y. The point being, I find that we're on the same path as you and I wish you luck in achieving the highest levels of a consultant. :)
Rhea, I think you're not only and SEO Consultant but a Business Strategist!
One way I think of it is that a consultant essentially becomes part of the company's team and is deeply involved in the strategy and execution, collaboratively.
A prospect (later turned client) once told me that they didn't want someone who just did the work, sent reports and an invoice. I guess that would be a vendor.
Well done and well said!
Hi Dana, I really like the label "business strategist." I've certainly felt more like a business consultant lately than a typical SEO given the direction we're taking with the work. It's all still rooted in SEO tactics, but a much deeper involvement as you mentioned. Also, happy to hear your client found their strategist. :)
Wow! This was great. Thank you!
After watching this I want to become a consultant when I retire from being a webmaster.
rhea, you bring up so many good points here and have to say very seldom am impressed by those who can't seem to differentiate between these two criterias.
I have been an independent consultant for all things singing and dancing for SEO for almost a year now and have increased up to 10 healthy clients who now won't let me go :0)
Thanks for the information and much blessings in your hemisphere as well.
Your pal Chenzo
Hi Chenzo, first, I'm sorry for the late reply. Not used to the sheer quantity of comments on SEOmoz and finally tackling them. Second, thank you for the comment! Happy to hear you're up to 10 clients and things are going well. You've got to be doing something right, keep it up and cheers back at you. :)
I vote for more whiteboard friday's like this!
I haven't given it this much thought and I love how Rhea explained this. Every SEO that services outside clients should watch this video!
@Rhea More please!!!
Yay, your comment made my night! Thanks Stuart for the vote of confidence and I'd love to bring more SEO business strategy to the community.
See, now you're giving away my secrets! I started out as a vendor for my biggest client, and now he calls me his business wife. First we took him from a static site to ecommerce in 1998, and then I started working on his SEO, and his PPC, and then the ecommerce got complicated so I became project manager for hiring a developer to do the migration under my supervision, and then consulted with him on choosing the vendor for his back-end inventory / warehouse / financial management software, found him an email consultant to bring the email program up to a roaring success, oh and I tell him which laptops to buy and how to get his email on his iPad. All online marketing strategies either come from me or have my input, and I've even sat in on interviews for prospective employees for clients, to help him ask the right questions.
That's why I don't take new clients, because once you get three or four of those, you can't handle any more. But this is a business model that works for me - I've got a guaranteed monthly retainer from each, based on the amount of work I do for them, I have plenty of time to work on my own stuff, and every single one of them has been with me for seven to ten years now.
Everyone can be replaced, of course. But it's a hell of a lot harder to replace a consultant (at least the way I do it) than a vendor.
That's a great point! Consultants are the tough ones to replace - vendors can be switched. I also agree that my relationship with some clients has evolved over time. My long-term clients (5 to 10 years) see me as a consultant. Clients who I just started with may have approached me thinking they need a vendor but are now seeing the difference.
Dana, we're in the same boat. It's a process though--working with someone who came to us with a specific goal and soon we recognize that there's a bigger issue that needs to be addressed first or in conjunction with the "vendor-y" work. Let's talk more at MozCon! :)
Meg, I love that you've been working with the one client since 1998! So much data... having a nerdgasm. Also, I'm sorry to scoop your secret, but it sounds like you've got this far more figured out. And, " But it's a hell of a lot harder to replace a consultant... than a vendor." --> so true.
After just leaving the agency world after 5+ years and now stepping into the in-house role, I found this very interesting from both points of view.
I think it is important to recognize that one isn't necessarily better or more important than the other. I think we all want to be seen as a "consultant" or "consultancy" rather than a "vendor" because we've associated a negative view of the latter. Both can be critically important and are needed, the greatest value comes from alignment...both sides, client and agency, are on the same page, and the relationshionship at that time is aligned with what is needed.
And while most firms will probably drive to one form or another, 100% of the engagements of a firm will necessarily be consultancy or vendor based, so it's important to recognize the specific dynamics of a specific engagement so as to manage them correctly.
On the agency side, it's also critically important to recognize when there is a disconnect...hired as a vendor but interactions are for consultancy, or hired as a consultancy but interactions are more vendor like.
At this point, it is important to:
The most dangerous part of any engagement or relationship is the point of disconnect when the two sides are not aligned in their understanding and expectations.
I agree that consultants and agencies should co-exist as equal partners, although the latter might prefer that the former did not exist. The contract should clearly state the deliverables, so that the client has no chance of getting confused.
Hi Brian, you're right. I think my tone in the video was a little too judgmental of vendors. We need both. At times we still find ourselves doing vendor-like work. To your point though, there really is nothing more important than understanding the "...point of disconnect when the two sides are not aligned in their understanding and expectations."
Excellent, bang-on video.
I describe myself as a "web strategist" who does everything from compettive analysis to SEO to PPC to press releases to reputation management. A standard line in my pitch email is "I seek to become your trusted advisor." I explain that I have a range of expertise and strategies. I typically spend hours or days just interviewing the client and learning about the business. I've even gone on the road to do research with sales reps or others.
I sometimes bring in vendors, including designers and developers...or even SEO experts to answer hard technical questions. For instance, I might supply the complete text, nav bar, and info hierarchy to a designer and say: go crazy. But I've already developed the strategy with the client. I will usually call in a developer for anything beyond simple plug in implemenation. But I can certanly diagnose stuff myself, see where it fits into the big picture, and often implement changes myself. I never mark up services form third party vendors. I just arrange for the client to pay directly after I've negotiated the best deal.
My speciality is attracting very high quality links from leading authorities. Soemtimes it can take 3 months to get a single link. But the payoff is hige.
Since I am a former journalist and TV producer, I can produce a lot of content myself -- or know how to get it done. Most of my clients are in the health, fitness and medical fields. Several are leading authorties in their fields. (Getting people form a 30 DA to 45 or even 50 to 63 is a pleasure -- especially since they can write stiff themselves, with me providing targeting guidance.)
I have a handful of clients on long term retainer and enough time to accept the occasional very lucrative 3 month gig. These days, I have only a single freelance link builder on contract.
Occasionally, a prospective client will say: "I have bids from three companies at X, Y and Z dollars for the terms A, B anc C. What is your bid and what guarantees do you offer?" I politely explain that i am not interested in competing on that basis. I try to explain what I do and make the case for my value -- and quite often fail. Which is fine. If they want to hire a vendor, that's what they should do. (Aside: very often the search terms are the wrong ones; bullshit metrics are the bane of our industry.)
Another oddity is that I seldom produce reports beyond bullet points in the text of an email (or IM). But I have regular (up to weekly) check in meetings with clients via phone or video. We'll occasionally dive into Google Analytics or Adwords, but that's rare. We most often discuss strategic developments from the SEO world or competitors.
I guess you could call me a "non technical" strategist. Which isnt entirely true -- since I've managed tech teams in large companues and haven't be able to remain completely ignorant.
But the whole SEO and marketing world seems to be swinging my way: to a more content and editorially-focused approach -- and away from "SEO tricks and tips." These days, I'm getting referalls from designers, developers and eveb people who do some of what I do.
We're certainly transitioning more towards your world. I have to guess that as the industry matures, education is more available, and it becomes easier for clients to track ROI, we gain greater acceptance as a legitimate marketing method. That helps establish a more trusting, long-term relationship with more enterprise-level coordination that will naturally require a consultant vs vendor. Would love to talk more about this sometime. It's an interesting progression.
Ahh, Cool Rhea, finally i got this i am doing both jobs vendor as well consultant for other companies thats great high five :)
High five back atcha!
Great Whiteboard Friday, Rhea! I feel so validated. It turns out that the agency I work at is a consultancy after all! Coming from a 100% vendor company three years ago, I love that as a consultant, we have so much opportunity to be involved in informing overarching business strategy. Our clients (I should say “most of our clients”) treat us as partners on their marketing team, giving access to their ecom data, brining us in to present and then drive comprehensive SEO strategies, and keeping us on long-term as we build a relationship together. We haven’t been invited to any communions or anniversaries yet, but we have had clients share wedding videos with us! ;-) That said, there may have been instances in which we’ve been dropped during middle management change-out. Can’t win them all I suppose.
Thanks Mike for sharing your experiences. It's always important to have validation, especially in an industry that has a pretty awful reputation. I believe that it's companies like yours and ours, and communities like SEOmoz, that are making it easier for clients to trust us.
Hi Rhea
Great WBF. I work as a CONSULTANT (Yes a consultant) for few years notably because I have a marketing background and for me SEO is a marketing tool (that's my mindset for several years).
I agree with you, it's important to develop the best relationship with the client in order to influence the strategy. But clients and projects are sometimes unique. I have a mix of Women and men as clients: Women tend to need more advices for strategies and ROI, that's not always the case for men. Also, people in agency has different skills some are more likely to be vendors others consultants so to me success is a mix of both.
Nowadays SEO's want to become Consultants: OK with that but we should work to improve our commercial and marketing skills to be trusted. Marketing Strategy is much more complicated than you think.
Sometimes when you come out with the search strategy as an example, the client marketing team already has a Brand strategy and the fit between the SEO view of the business and the marketing strategy of the company is not that obvious. There could be fights, talks, ...but finally the job needs to be done and that's the only thing that matter.
Well said. I suspect that most SEOs have come from a pure webmastering background and have no formal marketing training. I appreciate that running a website for profit teaches you many valuable online marketing skills, but to be a consultant you need to convey your offering in the language that a marketer understands. I have seen brand Nazis get in the way of meaningful title tags or using the words that customers might prefer, e.g. "cheap", so a friendly middle ground must be identified.
I'm dying right now. We've been in this exact situation. No, Mr. Big Brand, you do not need your brand in your title tag at the front. You know why? BECAUSE YOUR DOMAIN NAME IS YOUR BRAND AND EVERYONE KNOWS WHO YOU ARE! Other than that, put me down for no opinion. :)
Completely agree, working as a consultant requires broad, general marketing knowledge and understanding. The bigger picture brand and overall business strategy has to come first and any SEO fits in and needs to work underneath that. Gaining this marketing understanding has to be a crucial part of moving from being a vendor to consultancy.
Hi Franck, "...the client marketing team already has a Brand strategy..." --> you're right! We've started asking our clients what their brand strategy is for this reason. Our perception of what works and their perception of their brand can be very different if we don't define this from the start. Brand strategy is a more established field and I'd wager that in most organizations, there has been more research and testing put behind the brand. That's not always the case, but in larger organizations, it's generally true. In those situations, the brand cannot support certain SEO tactics just because the SEO knows kittens are well-received on StumbleUpon and can garner a lot of links. At least that's my belief and that's why it's so important to have open communication with someone in the organization that can speak to those internal values and priorities. Thank you for sharing your insight!
Very useful video! Its a distinction that I haven't fully considered in the past, but I see the power of what you're saying. Ironically, I find myself naturally wanting to be that consultant, but it is often an uphill battle when going into an organization who is looking for a vendor to perform task 'x'. How do you recommend overcoming the delimma of trying to fit a round peg into a square hole, so to speak? Perhaps its just about properly setting expectations up front?
Hi Neal, great questions and thanks for sharing them. I could honestly write an entire book on "how," so without getting into the nuances, I would say that yes, setting expectations and providing education is the simple answer. What's the best way to do that though? Start by listening to the client and asking the right questions. Danika Atkins just wrote about SEO Consulting in-take questions on our blog.
Find out if their expectations feel ridiculous or on target. If you're not on the same page, be honest about that and then show them the data (if you can get it) to educate them on a more reasonable expectation without it tied to anecdotal evidence.
In my opinion the data has to come from a longer upfront needs assessment. At Outspoken Media, we've been recognizing that we have to be more diligent in our prodding for details about conversions, traffic, conversion rate, etc. We need access to accounts BEFORE the proposal (with a signed NDA of course). This stuff is so important to figure out and plan for and we've been scared in the past to ask for it, but without the data we're uninformed and no one wants to put money into an informed plan. That's usually where you'll win the battle and if they're still resistant, I probably don't want to work with them, because they're operating without much business sense and that could spell danger for the contract later on.
Rambling now... hopefully this was helpful. :D
I love WB Friday!
Rhea, great job of explaining the differences between a vendor and a consultant. I wasn't sure where I was going to fit in at the beginning of your presentation but I'm sure now. I am definitely fit iinto the category of a consultant and by the way you described it, I'm very proud of that.
I also do some contract work for other Marketing Firms which includes some consulting for the contractor and as a vendor for their client. So in that sense I am a vendor as well. My business model for my company Integrity Marketing and Consulting, is to be a consultant for my clientele.
I just realized that today is my one year anniversary of doing SEO professionally! I started with my very first paid client on June 15th 2011! PTL! I made it through my first year. It has definitely been challenging and filled with uncertainty. I am starting to see some light at the end of tunnel and I am now pretty certain that this is what I am supposed to be doing.
Thanks again Rhea and have a great weekend along with everyone else!
Congratulations on hitting the one year mark! I hope there was cake. It sounds like you've got drive and a clear focus on what you do, so just keep doing it. Thank you for sharing your story here, I love hearing from other entrepreneurs! :)
Very nice way to explain the differences. I believe that I'm a consultant that work together with vendors. Thanks for the information Rhea very usefull a video to maybe show to clients?
You're welcome and I hope the video is client-worthy. We landed a great client as a result of it and the team wants to add this to our services page, which I'm reluctant about because I should have worn something different. I guess the info is still good though. :D
This video gave better clarity for me. Personally, I'd prefer to give consulting to a business owner who wants to increase their customer base, not just rank better.
@algogmbh_petra: Your comment about starting out as a "vendor" first describes exactly what I'm experiencing!
I thank you both! ;)
Gary Anderson.
Hi Gary, you're welcome and thanks for the comment. Couldn't agree more with this:
"I'd prefer to give consulting to a business owner who wants to increase their customer base, not just rank better."
Hi Rhea,
Thank you for this WBF.
I think that this applies to a personal level as well.
Am I an in-house Linkbuilder or a SEO Consultant which has an influence over the business decisions?
Great tips and focus.
Cornel
Hi Cornel, glad you see a broader implication. It certainly fits. Would love to know which you feel you are?
Rhea,
You are right but for an agency I think is imposibile to be either vendor or consultant. Like in every other aspect of life there is no black and white - it's also shades of grey.
It's a case by case scenario as some clients / accounts will fall into the vendor area and some into the consultant area. Out of 100 accounts in a company maybe 70% will fall into the consulting area and 30% into the vendor one. That could define the company as a consulting one as it has the majority of the accounts on that end.
Even if someone is a freelancer he/she will be for some accounts a vendor and for some a consultant. ( unless he/she only has one account :)
On our side, intrenally we also split accounts / clients like this with the only diffrent that we say provider not vendor and consultant on the other end so is more or less the same and based on thsi we olso set priorities - and I think that's really important.
PS 1:
Nice article - see you at SMX.. next year though :)
PS 2:
You need to do the Jedy wave like Rand at the end of the video otherwise our weekend won't be the same.
Shades of Grey... hmm. ;)
I see your point. There will be different demands based on client type, but we're actively looking for clients that really need more of the consultancy type relationship. However, vendor work is very profitable, so we like both and try to balance them. Not an equal balance, it does reflect your percents pretty closely. Who difficult is it not to drift into consultant mode w/your vendor clients?
ps - see you then!
pps - next time hopefully. :)
Or to put it another way...
You don't want to just sell SEO and marketing services. You want to become as fundamental to the businesses of other people as much as possible.
It takes greater effort in building personal and business relationships - both with the businesses you sell your services to and with other professionals. It can help a *lot* if you have expertise in a specific area of SEO. And there's more responsibility and accountability on your part.
But... guess which one is the most secure and pays more.
The bottom line is this - always go out of your way to build the best relationships you can.
"guess which one is the most secure and pays more." --> we see this. Literally. On our profit and loss statement in Quickbooks. The vendor-based services always return more $$, but we're more fulfilled with the consulting work. It's a balancing act on our end and I don't fault anyone for wanting to be a vendor and bring home the bacon. Great points!
Excellent video Rhea :)
I like the fast food metaphor at the start.. a good way to quickly explain the difference to leads
I tend to categorise vendors as those who are often seen offering "packages", making bold promises & providing blanket solutions without prior knowledge of the clients' vertical.
There needs to be more crossover in the industry nowadays with greater focus on (*ducks for cover*) inbound marketing & content strategy.
I was talking to someone the other day who wanted me to be involved in a project for only SEO & I'm in the process of explaining that I need to be involved right from the start in the strategy - retrospectively fitting SEO is a bad idea if you can avoid it.
My ideal model would be: Client > Consultancy > Vendor/Contractor (small biz) or Client > Consultancy > In-house Resources (big biz)Great to have a variety of people on WBF too - particularly for those of us who are seperated by oceans & can't make all the US conferences :)
Hi Woj, check out Mike's comment above as a vendor who "gets it." I think there's a place for both based on need and business model.
You articulated this difference very well. I have done the full journey from webmaster > self-employed vendor > SEO/PPC agency manager > in-house > consultant.
My consultant hat is now bolted on, so I do turn away retail clients who don't know the difference. Consulting has been fulfilling because you are treated differently than when you walk in for a retail client briefing. If you are lucky to land a big company, you may get numerous projects in rapid succession. I went for a 3-month, full-time strategy assignment, then was asked to hang around full-time for the next 9 months supervising the implementation by their team. I call this technique "inside-out SEO" and spoke about it at Pubcon 2010, because you end up teaching different teams to do their work in a more search-aware way. None of them is "doing SEO" individually, but collectively, they are.
They saw such an amazing ranking success that I couldn't believe it, but it still keeps rising, month after month. Now different parts of this business compete for my time and I am still there two years later, with barely a spare day to handle other projects.
I would encourage experienced SEOs to make the leap to consulting.
Great endorsement for consulting! :)
Great stuff Rhea,
This whiteboard friday clear deference between vendor and conslutant. thanks for this shairng. this business strategy is useful for all companies and SEO consultant.
Thumbs up :)
Hi Rhea,
Great WBF & a subject that definitely holds some challenge for many of us I suspect.
Perhaps the biggest problem for our company is the duality of being a vendor in one sector (web development), but offering more of a consultancy service in the other (SEO). The biggest issue in this situation is the point you touched on when you said "that's okay, because you're getting paid to do that kind of work".
Unfortunately, for those of us stuck with one foot in each camp, client expectations when it comes to what they are willing to pay are naturally aligned to the perceived value of a vendor, not a consultant :(
Thankfully, a genuine love for the work and a belief in how it should be done keeps a smile on our faces, but some days a grimace or two do sneak out ;)
Sha
Hi Sha, a grimace is acceptable. We get still get them, too! Hold onto those smiles though and invest in the clients who get it. There's more personal reward, but I guarantee there will be more long-term financial gains, too.
So what do you call the guy who is stuck in between the two ? ME
I kinda feel that I tend to offer the specific services of the Vendor along with the strategy / advice offered by the consultant. I kinda get where you are going with the but at least for me the line that divides them is very blurred .. wonder if anyone else feels this way ?
I agree. In fact, Iwould go sofar ast to say most SEO folks i have come across wear multiple hats.
Jeff, every decent SEO folk passed through this...
Yeah, I agree that every SEO has been here. For some clients, it is a transition phase but for other SEOs, they will always be a little of both. This video does a great job differentiating the two.
Hi there! Great points about feeling like you're in the middle. There is absolutely a moment when you might recognize that you're somewhere between the two. That's normal. Vendors will often find themselves faced with challenging questions that require strategy to help their customer best utilize their product or services. Likewise, a consultant may find that in order to achieve results for their client, very vendor-like work is needed. There isn't a right or wrong answer here, it's just about personal goals and values. Best of luck on either side... and the middle! :)
Thanks Rhea for this cool clarity between Vendors and consultants.
But when it comes to the SEO industry the vendors too need to be sure of what practices they are executing because many times clients think they can follow the DIY model for SEO and can acheive the SEO objectives by just reading articles and getting things done by hiring people.
If the client has SEO knowledge then it is good but many times the clients do not have adequate knowledge and end up messing up the whole project just by going for a cheaper option.
Consultants on the other hand may charge a higher fee but takes the responsibility for what they suggest benefiting the company positively and stands by the company in any adverse situation arising of the suggestions made by them.
As usually a good consultant alongwith having adequate knowledge about the industry also has a flair for marketing, communications, finance and other aspects of the business giving a complete idea about how the suggestions made fit in profitably for the company.
You're welcome and you're so right! Sometimes, especially in SEO, it's easy to have just enough knowledge to be incredibly dangerous. And, consultants do assume more responsibility in their role. It's important that the client not pass everything to the consultant for that reason. Consultants can help grow your business, but they aren't a long-term replacement for your own workforce.
Rhea, good work, what you were saying came across loud and clear and you were very engaging. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
As for what you were saying, I can think of a lot of clients who need a consultant but only want to pay for a vendor. I think it would be difficult to become a consultant by accident, at least seriously. It's much easier to kid yourself on and pretend you're a consultant when you're not.
I would love to hear a follow-up talking about the steps you took to transition from one to the other.
I'll make sure to cover the transition steps soon. Keep your eyes peeled! Thank you for asking about them.
Excellent WBF, this is very useful.
I find myself in the middle; some of my clients are looking for vendor services while others are looking for consultancy. The video has helped to separate the clients into two groups and apply the correct resource. I found that I had been trying to provide consultancy services to clients who only wanted vendor services. This has caused frustration on both sides. Now everything is clear.
Excellent Whiteboard Friday Rhea, I enjoyed it a lot. It really opened up my eyes to how close what I do as an in-house SEO/marketer is to the work of a consultant, and how well suited I could potentially be to that type of work as my career progresses.
Thank you so much Rhea.
As someone who has recently ventured forth on my own, this is a wonderful definition to have and think about. As many have commented here, I tend to lie somewhere in the middle striving to be a "real" consultant (is that kind of like a real boy.. uhm, girl? Where's the blue fairy when you need her?).
I work exclusively with small businesses and they almost always come to me with very little knowledge. What I get is the standard "I want to rank #1 for (insert keyword with no research behind it here)" or "I want X visitors a day". So they have a vendor situation in mind, but I work to carefully educate them and try to get to the core of what it is they think those results will produce for them. Then we can work on creating a strategy that will achieve those results (which, as we all know, is almost never as easy as ranking for a keyword or pumping in bulk visitors).
I actually love the challenge this presents and knowing what I can really bring to the business relationship the client & I form. I do, however think I need to pad the center of my desk or I will put a permanent flat spot in my forehead. :)
Ha, being somewhere in the middle is normal and both are real! :) Also, pad that desk. :D
Thank you Rhea,
That explained exactly the reason why i believe in a strategic approach to online marketing.
Even before i started my own business i felt constrained by just doing a single element of SEO. Even though a single task can be very beniftial to a company, it is still a narrow approach to reaching the overall business goals. It is kinda like running Adwords campaigns without looking at the landingpages and/or overall succes of the website.
I also agree that most SEO's both function as a vendor and a consultant. The main reason for that is that in order to be a consultant, you have to build on trust first before you can actually start doing business. This means it take more time to start a project and even sometimes means doing a job as 'vendor' in order to show a client you can add value.
Great Whiteboard Friday!
Berry van Es
Digital Footprint
"you have to build on trust first before you can actually start doing business." --> YES! Great point. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, this is so right on.
The difference between a vendor and consultant seems very trivial and haven't really put much thought in it. However, making it clear for my company does allow me to better define my strategy. My putting the focus on one of the two, it is easier to become an experts in one of those fields.
I think it is more likely I will make a clear distinction between the two in terms of processes and responsabilities rather than pushing one activity away.
Great WBF, thank.
A really interesting video, definitely made me think what aspects we as a company fall into. I am definitely going to be thinking a bit more about this as I think we are a consultant company but at times with certain clients we might act as a vendor...hmmmm food for thought!
Interesting WBF
One thing I have noticed is that being a consultant requires you to be in the trenches with the client, giving them pragmatic unbiased advice to ensure they get the right web marketing strategies in place (and then help them achieve those). Because of this we tend to work with clients at their offices/workplace premises so we get a better grasp of their business, build up greater levels of trust (deepening the relationship) and this has resulted in us keeping many clients for 7 years+.
Over the years I tend to find SEO Vendors prefer not to work closely with clients at their offices - maybe their rates are lower and therefore they cannot justify the expense and time of travelling to sit down with clients on site...?
So vendors receive Requests for Quotes and consultants receive Requests for Proposals
Heh, that works on the deliverables side. :)
Great WBF Rhea!!
I too consider myself as a consultant as I develop the strategy, work one-on-one with clients, share the marketing results with clients and work very closely with my vendors to ensure my strategy is being implemented correctly. My vendors do not deal with the clients:
vendors <-> consultant <->clients
Hey Rhea it's nice edition of WBF..
What i find the diffeculties beaging vendor is sometimes it;s too hard to convince clients on our stretagies and work.. but in consulting part clients have mind set that if i hire a consultant, might be he is right on his stretagies!!
Thanx for make us undestand our place.. and where we stand now.. :)
You're welcome, thank you for the comment! :)
Great topic Rhea!
The art of client relationships supersedes the science of SEO (so long as clients are paying your bills).
At the end of the day, it all comes down to client satisfaction, which is determined by perceived value and service level.
Even if client ranking reports look good, but you aren't engaging with your clients, you're not going to keep the relationship very long.
I'm more of a vendor, but we always show value, provide top notch customer service, and show how we're impacting business goals on a routine basis.
The topic of client management and relationships is not one that's discussed much, so thanks for delving in.
Hi Mike, "perceived value and service level." --> Amen!
Love having a vendor weigh-in on the conversation and demonstrate that you get it regardless of your business' classification. Really appreciate it and love to see someone bringing the right metrics and reasoning to the table. Thank you.
Thanks Rhea! We often struggle with this. Some clients we are more of a vendor for and others we are more of a consultant. It takes a lot more effort in the consultancy side for us, but those are usually the most rewarding relationships. This was a very fresh perspective on an old topic and I really enjoyed it. Hope you had fun at SMX.
Thanks Josh and SMX was fantastic. I agree with your assessment of the consultancy work being more rewarding. Really glad you get to do it. And, thank you for the positive support.
It was great to see you on SEOmoz whiteboard Friday!
Rhea great explanation of vendors and consultants and how they are different from each other… I believe many times client force us to play as a vendor and not as a consultant by giving us the access of limited data and information.
I think business should need to understand that SEO consultants are responsible for many other areas as well then just link reporting and SERP rank reporting against different keywords.
If business provide access to full data and information and allow us to work head to head with the ir marketing department.. I guess the results can be phenomenal.
Thank you Moosa! Always appreciate your support and comments. This is so right: "force us to play as a vendor and not as a consultant by giving us the access of limited data and information."
My hope for the video is that it would be applicable to SEOs, but also clients who need to give us the data we need to make informed decisions. You made such a great point!
I think I am actually both .. maybe in transition to more consultancy. But for god sake .... to the kid's birthdays or whatever no please !! Don't ask me to do that !!
LOL. You don't *have* to attend those. We prefer drinks ourselves. ;)
Thanks Reha
Interesting to see someone clearly defining the actual differences between a vendor and consultant. In my own case I find myself labeled as a consultant but in I am definitely a split between vendor and consultant
Great video Rhea! I have thought about this in the past but never heard it clearly defined. The success of your marketing business is definitely in the consulting role but a business will always need vendors too. To truly help a business you almost need to force a consultative role because of all the recent algo changes we can no longer just 'build links' we need to know the business to truly serve them. Just my 2 cents!
Agree 100%! Vendors are faced with taking on more of a strategic/consultative role when customers turn to them for guidance.
Really a Great Whiteboard Friday Rhea... Till today I was not aware of the actual differences b/w a vendor and a consultant, but after watching this Whiteboard Friday I know that to be more successful with our campaigns I need to transform to a consultant from a vendor... And this could be a tricky part just as Gianluca mentioned in a previous comment that this depends upon the mentality of the client upto an extent... Nonetheless, I will work hard to transition myself as a Consultant from a Vendor... :)
We need both, so only do so if it's the right fit for you! Best of luck on either course and I'm glad this was helpful. :)
I don't really think a customer knows or cares about the difference : ) I think they just want to rank, and they want to keep their results....
My theory is, if an SEO company uses a "give us your money and well take it from here" approach they are a BS company.
If the company says hire us and we will "work with you" they will probably help you rank.
The reason I say this is because no SEO/Internet Marketer knows their business better then their client. I don’t know anything about "law" and I doubt most SEO companies do. How can I write great content about law if I am a marketing expert? IMO It just doesn’t make sense.
A consultant is someone who tells the law firm his client how they should use blogging as content, inbound and link building strategy, and who says "I can organize a team of law expert writers to work on your blog, if you have not,the time or possibility to do it yourself.". A consultant does not write posts about law...
I see so a vendor uses a "give me your money" and "see ya" approach?
I've written high quality blog items for a billion dollar company in the private equity and hedge fund space...without much previous knowlege of the filed.
I just asked the top people to send me whatever was lying around: powerpoints, emails, proposals, etc.... I then re-worked into blog posts that got great links. The execs approved the posts and occasionally made edits for confidentiality or accuracy.
Yup, Daniel. That is a correct option if you are skilled in writing. For certain kind of topics, even though I could potentialy write good stuff because I am good in searching the right sources, netherless I would prefer relying with a professional tecnical writer specialized in that topic.
Fair enough. Point taken.
Gianluca, exactly! I couldn't write on any subject nor would I try. We do have an incredible writer on the team who can transition like this, but in the highly technical or specialized fields, we have to hire someone more experienced or provide the client with guidelines and content strategies for them to implement.
Vendors has to perform consultant job anyhow.. if you are outsourcing partner of SEO Company , your responsiblity is less.. you just need to follow what has been agreed.
But when you are provide seo services no matter which.. you have to consult with clients.. you have to give after effects of specific work. you have to be specific before starting work.. so I dont think vendor can survive in long run if they dont have consultant or they dont become consultant in some phase..
I'm pretty sure I'm both at this point. Helping develop a plan and implementing all the work!
I think this is going to open the eyes of some people, and through others for a loop. Good break down between Vendor and Consultant. This will probably help people find their place in the field.
That is a very interesting perspective. I think a lot of "Vendors" call themselves consultants if they are working on a partnership basis with the client just like you said. Obviously while providing tactics and objectives, they go on to dedicate resources they have in shop to meet the strategy of the client. Very good breakdown of the two, this post was very informative. Thank You
You're welcome and thank you for the comment. :)
LOVE THIS! Thanks Rhea!
Valerie DiCarlo
SEO Web Consulting
You're welcome and thank you! :)
I am not sure whether we can even look at vendors in the same light as consultants. To me a vendor is a person whose sole purpose of servicing a client is to make as much money as possible. He is someone who will bill you for any extra help/work, who stricly works according to the rules and terms of the contract. You can often see him saying 'don't this, don't do that, we are not paid for this work, don't spend more than 30 minutes on this client's project. He is someone who address his clients as 'accounts', can't recall their names and contact details without checking higrise/salesforce. He is the person who run a SEO factory where clients are mere units of production in an assembly line. So in the end, it is the level of involvement and engagement and whole hearted concern for your client's well being that sepearate you from SEO vendors.
I am Agree with you !! Because when you talk about SEO Vendors the limitaton will come up.. and you will get only limited result & work with limited timeline.
It's tough to classify a vendor totally in these terms. There are some fantastic vendors out there who have a specific skill set and they simply like doing that work, producing that product or service. They don't want to collaborate with a client or manage teams. They just want to do their job and become the best at it. I think this speaks to work styles more than anything, so I wouldn't judge a vendor too harshly. They have limitations, but those are often self-imposed and at times it fits the client/consultant and the vendor perfectly. We need both.
Thank you for the interesting debate by the way, I like seeing different view points and appreciate all of the comments. :)
Definitely was skeptical with the new face on whiteboard friday. I love Rand because he speaks well and has a compelling tone, i must say that not only were you informative but very good speaking. I would never have thought to ask the question to differentiate vendor, consultant but this helps me better explain with alot more clarity. Hope you post again sometime.
Thank you for the feedback! :)
That one helps a lot.. Thanks for that Rhea. I would like to ask one question what do you think the differences for a Business Analyst being in Client's place and in Vendor's place? What are differences of the roles and responsibilities for a business analyst in Client's and Vendor's place?
So, vendor and consultant are obviously different. As what you have said, when we say vendor your reposibilities is taking strategy in from the client and wehn we say concultant, theyb receives the business goals from the clients but then they communicate the strategy back to the client.
Excellent post :) sometimes don't you think that an SEO consultant simply has to take on the roll of a vendor though because it's the clients request?
If the client asks you to assume the role of a vendor, e.g. "Can you build us some links?" then it is still a vendor project. In a true consultant role, you would help the client to get 3 quotes, then help them choose the best vendor to implement your recommended strategy.
Hi David, great question! In the traditional sense, a consultant would be more like what trainSEM pointed out. However, I feel like if you're informing them on strategy and you're still implementing some (or even many) vendor-like services then you'd still be a consultant because you have a long-term, trusting relationship in which you help strategize business decisions.
This video gave us very clear understanding the difference between vendor and consultant, till now we were thinking that we are consultant but not and also we are not vendors, we are inbetween. We follow all the things mentioned in the video and want to become a complete consultant.
Thank you Rhea.
You're welcome!
i m also agree with you ! He is someone who address his clients as 'accounts', can't recall their names and contact details without checking higrise/salesforce.
Consultants on the other hand may charge a higher fee but takes the responsibility for what they suggest benefiting the company positively and stands by the company in any adverse situation arising of the suggestions made by them.
Rhea- Awesome video! You made many great points distinguishing the clear difference between a vendor and consultant and the important roles they play in building a business relationship. Keep up the great work!
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