Mystery Guest and I are in the Bay Area for a couple days - we flew into San Jose actually and had lunch just off Sand Hill Road. (I figured I'd show her where the VC "magic" happens) :) We've already got every meal and several coffee meetups booked, which happens when your last trip to the city is cut short.
Before we left, Mystery Guest felt the obligation to pick up some high caliber literature for the plane and I, too indulged, with a favorite old topic - economics. As folks who've read my various Internet profiles know, I dropped out of the University of Washington's School of Business two classes away from graduation to work full time on what was to become SEOmoz. My major was finance - a world that fascinated me initially, but eventually fell miles short of the passion I carry for all things web. However, to help reminisce, I grabbed a copy of Tim Harford's The Undercover Economist, and it got me thinking...
Harford makes some excellent points in his book about the basics of economic theory - namely that, given the absence of abnormal regulation, corruption, or crime, inefficient industries in a free market primarily exist because of lack of information: buyers don't know what most sellers charge, sellers don't know what buyers will pay, there's no easy way to compare pricing, services, or quality. Of course, I couldn't help but think of our own infamous craft - search marketing. In fact, it's hard to imagine a business service with greater inefficiencies in the market. Some terrific vendors are charging $50/hour and making their clients a mint. Others charge $500/hour and provide nearly valueless services. Links are bought and sold with only a guess at the value they might create for search engines and traffic. Competitive analysis reports, site audits, and keyword research fluctuate from the hundreds of dollars to the tens of thousands of dollars and, many times, the difference in quality is almost nil.
Why is the search marketing field such an inefficient industry?
- It's nearly impossible to compare vendors side by side
- Sourcing multiple vendors is incredibly challenging
- Press mentions and fame don't necessarily equate to quality
- Knowledge of how the industry operates and how to judge vendors is knowledge that's nearly as hard to come by as the search marketing techniques themselves
- Incorrect assumptions about the practice abound
- The engines themselves provide little to no guidance on the issue
- A neophyte has almost no chance of separating fact from fiction in claims of services, value, ROI, effectiveness, etc.
- Information about effective techniques (and even techniques that are accepted vs. frowned upon) take months or years to permeate through the consulting industry
- Reliance on references often leads to overpricing
Obviously, the industry isn't broken; in fact, it's booming. But, I suspect that a large reason is that even inefficient, overpriced, poor advice, if it at least hits a few of the basics, has enough of a positive ROI at this point to make buyers lazy (and thus, many vendors lazy, too). After all, why bother to learn the proper ways to do SEO if doing a half-assed job still earns a better ROI than the last 50 print campaigns combined?
Can it be fixed? Honestly, I'm not sure. I suspect that, much like other business consulting services, there may be years or even decades before any level of true efficiency establishes itself. After all, my understanding of TQM consulting is that it was nearly a monopoly, then became a den of carpet-baggers, before finally turning mainstream and reliable.
BTW - Mr. Harford runs a column (and blog) where he answers questions about economics. I'm definitely going to ping him about this one. :) Hopefully, he'll answer my emails...
Hi Rand,
As long as search engines maintain secrecy over their methods then there will always be this uncertainty and the resultant variances in
pricing.
Sometimes i think our business is more akin to a religion.
Nobody knows 100% of the answers, we all seek to interpret the signs
and we use blogs to convert people to our way of thinking.
In many cases the true benefits are long term, not a quick fix
and without any kind of official guide it is difficult for the layperson to
judge the value of our services.
Oops maybe that is a bit too serious :-)
Colin
Dead on...
The human brain is almost predicted to think like a logical function, although as longer you live, you see that the life is more then a logical funtion and it begins to be art. Sometime after it´s just art. So is SEO, you think it´s predictable, you then see it´s not that easy and then you see it´s the art how to attract attention and get natural links. So you win. All those books are a wonderful inspiration to recognize ones more that life is art.
One of my biggest goals right now with SEM is to attempt to identify best practices and standardization to the approach for our clients to use. We are seeing the industry moving towards consulting on how to decide from a larger variety of tactics, but with a standardization of the higher level approach.
While I don't think that there will ever be perfect template approach to SEM -- different markets and different goals for different companies will affect it tremendously, I do believe that working towards a mature industry specific program is just around the corner.
Seems like the hourly rate of consultants in just about every field varies wildly. It largely depends on how well you're able to network, promote, and sell yourself.
Having the relevant skills is important, but being able to sell yourself is so important. I don't mean that in a bad way. But the client often has no idea whether or not the service they're getting is a good value. Being able to present yourself and your services well is key.
Ooh, there's so much richness in this post and these comments!
Some points that resonate:
In all deference to CVOS, I think there's only a couple questions, the answers to which matter to most clients:
The rest is fuzzy. I've spoken at (Yellow Pages) industry events but I'm not fit to sell you yellow pages advertising. We're not listed in any ratings directories of which I know (the cobblers' shoes, don't you know).
There's a LOT of companies chasing online dollars - most are not so good. Some are not so bad. And others really do good.
Striving to do good is a great starting point IMHO.
hey Willscott -
There are many qualified SEO companies, but there are also many SEO companies of ill repute. As you stated, its not a popularity contest between agencies to have the most self-recognition. Long term ROI is the bottom line.
My 6 questions were only meant as a guideline and starting point. There are lots of highly qualified companies/individuals who have never spoken at a trade show event.
CVOS,
I totally agree with you that clients need help framing the criteria and certainly didn't mean to diminish your point calling out your comment.
The list you gave definitely has some good indicators.
My challenge is to keep it simple to avoid clients lost in the jargon while quickly demonstrating a history of postiive returns on investment.
We've taken clients from SEOs whose sales technique was to overwhelm with jargon masquerading as knowledge. After months of billing that guy had the client ranking for their name. Woo hoo!
Maybe it's the class of clients we serve - they want the bottom line quickly so they can get back to running their business, "what's in it for me"?
Cheers!
Wilscott - I love the discussion and I applaud you as a person/firm who tries to reduce the SEO jargon and focus on creating reale value for clients.
This helps improve the reputation of our profession.
Speaking of bizarre economics:
A friend who set me up with a presentation to about a 100-person company told me the other day that he was almost certain I had lost the contract because I came in so far below what the CEO / Marketing Department EXPECTED the project to cost! This despite the fact I was on the high end of the typical pricing ranges for my level of experience.
In some respects, for the right client, you can almost increase your chances at landing a gig with a higher price tag.
Undercover Economist is definitely a good read - really enjoyed that one myself - I would suggest checkin' out "Armchair Economics" if you get a chance.
Feel free to cull the linkdrop after you check out the review - https://www.stuntdubl.com/2006/01/02/armchair-economics/
It was a little less dry, easier to read, and still had fantastic insights.
Do you have any other econ favorites?
I like your comparison between SEO and economics but funnily enough, the SEO industry has so many facets, so many techniques and different ways to achieve the desired results, it's probably the only profession that can be easily compared to almost anything.
That´s why it makes fun to work as one. :)
Rand,
You have even inspired me to write a post about this also offering ways to improve the industry, such as providing more case studies, being more transparent (like you) and so on.
I think the point being made is that a lot of non-technical business owners wouldn't be able to tell which SEOs are legitimate or not because often you're not comparing apples with apples.
You're right that industry experts can easily tell the difference and often we attempt to help consumers by pointing-out dodgy SEOs or firms that employ dodgy tactics... but this is usually done in SEO blogs that will often never be read by a neophyte business owner or CEO.
This means that those business owners are left with only a few options - they can either find a good SEO through referral or by doing their homework, some larger companies with a bigger budget may employ the services of a consultant (although that decision would be based more on how convincing the consultant was or how expensive they are). Or for smaller firms they'll more likely make their choice through media (which can be misleading as Rand pointed-out in his recent post Michael Yack and FabulousSavings.com in the Toronto Star ).
I appreciate your efforts on trying to educate the general public and I strongly suggest every decent SEO to do their best in making our craft as ethical and transparent as possible... but I think rand is right when he suggests that it will take a long time before a non-marketing / non-tech person will be easily able to tell a good SEO from a mediocre one.
And they can also hire a SEO consultant, which will save lots of money, effort and time (not sure which is most important here, prolly time).
Lack of knowledge is a huge factor. For some reason business owners who are hyper anal about every aspect of their business are willing to believe the most outlandish claims by dodgy SEO's. IMO this is because they don't understand how search engines work and this leads them to believe what the shady SEO's are offering.
Business owners need to at least gain some understanding of search engines and SEO's. One way to do this is ask many questions of potential SEO's. If the business owner does not understand something they need to ask for more information. Those of us in the SEO industry need to be more open to explaining what we do to the general public
As the general public becomes more educated the shady SEO's will have fewer opportunities to take advantage of unsuspecting business. It will take time and effort but it can happen.
"having multiple SEO vendors at the same time is a problem, but you can either have them do different things and measure them or hire them one after another"
the statement 'hire them one after another' gets to me. say a company hires me and do all sorts of optimization to their site and start to get them high quality links, then after two months they go to someone else. The new company does hardly a thing and the reeps the benefits of all the work i did, leaving the client thinking the second company must be better. SEO results are never really quite immediate and may take several months for the engines to pick up on the changes and inbound links.
i've seen it happen.
Two factors that influence the cost/benefit of SEO are experience and size of the firm.
In general, small SEO firms will provide more hands on time with a client and get a better understanding of their true needs and goals. A 2-3 person team working fulltime on a website is MUCH more effective than 10 people working a few hours each.
Its almost always better to go small.
The second factor in cost is the experience of the person working on your site. An SEO firm that uses interns or employees with minimal experience may charge high rates, but the quality will be low.
So if you are searching for an SEO firm ask these questions:
Asking the right questions can help determine the economics of an SEO job.
The real question is, did MG like the latest HP? (I know I did!)
IMHO as an Econ grad, that was a good, perceptive analysis of the industry from an economics point of view, Rand. Thanks to the MOZzers too, for bringing pricing issues out in the open.
Regarding your last assertion that even bad SEO that covers (even incidentally) the right basics currently has pretty tremendous ROI: I wonder how long that will hold out as SEO becomes more ubiquitous. If you do the basics for a site in a vertical where there are already 30 sites implementing the basics, your SEO likely isn't going to give you many tangible benefits. As more site owners start to see the value of SEO, I think we'd see a diminishing number of verticals where the basics (in and of themselves, without some more advanced "art-like" work) are of very much value.
if you're on sand hill in the wee hours, don't forget to keep an eye (as opposed to ear) out for the fabled tesla runs.
Many of the people in my area are offering mediocre services, i.e. entire practices based around the meta keywords tag stuffing. There is a huge demand for SEO services - and just like a novice can't tell the difference between an expert mechanic and a quack, they are even less able to tell there difference between SEO.
...Nice one Rand.
I've just had to drop my prices as several "SEO specialists" I know of charge way out of whack prices
They are charging $7000 and up yet don't have someone onboard with hardly any knowledge past the meta tags...
I know another that is really good (like me ;) ) and is charging $90 per hour, another $2500 retainer +++
WT.... I'm just quoting $50 an hour now and doing a good honest job from my home office
I don't need a lot of work to be happy and have no desire to be big but.....
It's all over the place...
Do you guys publish your exact prices???????
We've got ours up in our services section, but since we're taking extremely few new clients, we might be an odd example. You could also look at the recommended list, which shows at least the ranges in which many companies operate.
Pricing can be a perilous minefield. Some people are rather specialized and can just charge very direct rates. If you are taking on large, or complex, projects there is often a need to absorb the cost of sub-contractors to do the best job possible.
Many of the "really good" people -- who command high rates -- in our industry are not individual but front-people who collaborate with other competent people to deliver a strong and valuable service.
IMHO--I think $50 per hour for SEO is too low. Just my opinion.
Also don't forget that SEO is a universal industry and as a result the expenses of SEO companies from around the world would be very different (rent, salaries, bills, local advertising etc) and that affects their pricing.
The reason why the economics of search engine optimization services are funky / don't work is very simple:
It is because every website is at the mercy of the search engines!
It's a pretty poor long-term play to specialize a firm in SEO as the second Google/Yahoo/etc.. Changes the ranking algorithm, all of your knowledge (the only thing of value which you provide) goes right out the window.
One of the reason why other consultants can justify their rates is they can repeat their results - at the end of the day SEO firms just can't guarantee results, and therefore must bank on just grabbing as much cash as they can upfront.
The best SEO business in my opinion is selling information/fodder related to SEO – that way you get paid up front, have no responsibility for results, and get authority in the field in the process. The only problem with doing this is if you sell all of your knowledge, what advantage do you have in the long term?