Andy's hilarious post at SEJournal made me sit back and think. The SEO community, in my mind, centers around a few areas of mass congregation.
In the offline world:
- WMW Conferences (aka PubCon)
- SES Conferences (primarily New York, San Jose and London & Chicago to a lesser degree)
In the online world:
- Threadwatch
- WebmasterWorld Forum
- SEW Forums
- HighRankings Forum
- Sitepoint Forums
- DigitalPoint Forums
- Matt Cutts' Blog Comments (lately they've been busier than TW's)
If you're active in these areas, your username/handle will get recgonized. If your comments or posts are particularly valuable, you'll find that folks often click through on your signature or search for your site/profile. If you then run a blog or site with particularly great stuff, you may find yourself growing bigger and bigger in the community.
Good examples include Bill Slawski's recent trek into the blogosphere with SEO By The Sea, Aaron Pratt's SEOBuzzBox and Scott Fish's FishSEO blog. Technically, Bill was well known prior to serving up a blog, primarily for his exceptional contributions at Cre8asite forums (which is an outlier - it has some great SEO minds posting regularly, but is not a place to "meet the crowd," so to speak).
SEOmoz's popularity originated with the tools, which we initially built for internal use and ended up deciding to share. Then, through coverage of the SES NYC show last year and speaking engagements in Toronto & San Jose, SEOmoz became a more popular destination. However, it was only in the last 3-4 months that this site has become widly trafficked, although I still wouldn't consider myself part of the A-List. I've made my own categories of bloggers and personalities below.
A-Listers (everybody knows their name):
- Danny Sullivan
- Mike Grehan
- Barry Schwartz
- Aaron Wall
- Matt Cutts
Original Gangsters of SEO (several of the above fit here as well, but I'm segmenting, so no dupes):
- Greg Boser
- Todd Friesen
- Dave Naylor
- Eric Ward
- Bruce Clay
- Joseph Morin
- Brett Tabke
- Dan Thies
- Andy Beal
- Shari Thurow
- Detlev Johnson
- Ammon Johns
- Chris Sherman
- Mikkel Demib Svensen
- Jill Whalen
- Darrin Ward
- There's dozens more, too...
And folks that many people know, who often contribute to the progress, discussions, fights and humor of the SEO world:
- Michael Gray
- Michael Martinez
- Andy Hagans
- EGOL (only I know his real name!)
- Donna Fontenot
- Jim Boykin
- Dr. Edel Garcia
- Chris Boggs
- Loren Baker
- Alan Webb (Webby - also an old-schooler)
- Shawn Hogan
- Todd Malicoat
- Lee Odden
- Patrick Gavin
- Ian McAnerin (also OG)
- Bill Slawski (the aforementioned)
- Ben Pfeiffer
- John Scott
- Phillip Lenssen (OG blogger)
- Way too many more to count, nevermind list...
Remarkably, though, SEO is a small community - very tightly interwoven with discussions spreading back and forth from blog to forum to forum to blog. Junkies have more than enough reading material to be busy for 40 hours out of the week without doing an ounce of "work." It's a strange, sordid world we live in, but we love it and we'll be here for the foreseeable future (except Nick W; he bailed).
If you're someone who wants to get noticed in the SEO sphere... Andy's recommendations are good ones, but I'd also advise that you think about how you present yourself and the attitude you adopt. Testy and vulgar definitely don't fit in.
Best traits to have in the SEO sphere:
- Brilliant sense of humor (you can succeed on this alone)
- Self-deprecating (never take yourself too seriously)
- Professional, never too casual or disrespectful when you don't know the crowd (more true in person than online)
- Even-tempered (anger and coming unhinged doesn't fly - take your licks like everyone else, trust me - we all have)
- Cordial and friendly (it's easy to like the people in SEO - go ahead and do so, don't just pretend)
- Logical & Thoughtful (SEOs are a very smart group - keep your wits when you post or speak, memories last in this field)
I'd guess that SEO has room for at least another dozen big personalities over the next 5 years - I'm fascinated to see who it's gonna be.
Actually, I think there are a lot of people still around from the old 1998-2000 JimWorld days. Many posting under nicknames then have switched to their real names now, or vice-versa.
Me, my first love was and still is building websites -- web design. :)
I'm just too damn busy to think about getting famous. OK, that's only partially true... I think about it a lot and do participate in a couple of forums, distribute articles, and do a great deal of lurking on other blogs. But really, my whole day could be wasted responding in blogs and forums and I have a business to run, a family to spend time with and a DVD library that screams to be watched. In a way I envy a lot of you who seem to have endless time to post in forums and blogs AND keep up working with clients, SEO research, testing, etc. Kudos to you... now I gotta get back to work!
Quite frankly, being too damn(ed) busy is a lousy excuse. Part of growing your business and commanding larger fees is becoming well known in your space. If you're not out there as an "opinion leader" and being recognized as an expert, you're capping your own potential.
MAKE time.
This is a very interesting list you got here, Rand. I base the SEO more on what they've accomplished in the actual SERPs more than how many forums they post in, but I see your point. They are some big players in the SEO community.
The list I would love to see is a list of what sites people have done and what they are ranking for, so we could actually look at the techniques on the actual site. I know this would probably never happen with all of the non-disclosure agreements and privacy issues, but it would make for very good reading.
I nominate Neil (engine) for the OG list too - or at very least the "unsung heros of SEO list":)
Why end my long streak of lurking? That’s a good question and I’m not sure I exactly know the answer. I’ve received more requests from family and friends for help lately…that is a big part of it. I guess I’ve also reached a certain point where I feel I can help others. Most of my lurking has been learning. I couldn’t contribute because I didn’t feel like I had much to contribute. I also rarely had questions that someone hadn’t already posted information somewhere online. I’m also starting a SOE/PPC related-blog and that has fueled my interest in the community.
In the ten years I've been involved in this industry, I've seen it change from a warm, cosy and fun profession, to a high-tech, fast-paced business. Being a refugee from JimWorld, I still see many of the nics posting and blogging today. The folks that have come and gone either couldn't or wouldn't change with the times. Those that are still around have adaped and grown up with the business.
New people are coming into the industry every day. This always means there will be the opportunity to educate, to train and to inform. But watch out, they won't be newbies next year.
Keep on blogging and posting!
Hi Rand,
Consider myself an SEO. I’ve been at it since about 2000 but I work for a large company and focus exclusively on promoting my employers website. I spend way too much time going to all the blogs and forums, (I found this blog post by listening to the daily search cast) but I almost never post. This is very rare for me. I just lurk.
I am starting to wiggle my way into the community anyway though. I go to as many conferences as I can so I can meet and speak to as many of you folks as I can individually. Everyone (Including you) is genuinely friendly and easy to talk to. I always go out of my way to say “Hi” to the person sitting next to me. I’ve met almost all the folks on the “A List” that way. I always tell them about the problem I’m trying to solve or learn more about and no one even overtly pitches to me. They usually help me out if they can or recommend someone they respect. I do my best to keep in touch on a personal level afterwards if I can. I also do everything I can to work with the best SEO “A List” individuals I can get.
I sincerely enjoy the process and the community. I’ve thought about speaking at SES but not because I want to attract clients, sell a book or whatever. I would just like to become more integrated into the community, make new friends and expand my business contacts to help my employer dominate our niche online.
John Scott is one who has inspired me greatly years ago, he will always be on top of the A-list.
Thanks for the list!!
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My website:www.congruous.org
Thanks for al the great comments with regard to SEO experts. I know that there are a lot of names thrown out but the reality is that the true SEO experts are on the ones getting number one rankings again and again!
These tips should be given in a "new users" section. Sound great for people just starting to get involved in a blog or forum. Then again, they are all pretty common sense to me...
OMG, Rand I just came across this from doing a search on your site. I had to read it because of the great picture of Bruce Campbell (love him)!
Anyway, I'm also a lurker like Tom, but have posted here and there since 1999 (still semi-active in JimWorld forums, now increasing my scope to others). As far as "A" lister or "B" lister, I think Bruce Campbell pretty much encompasses the overall thought, the "A" listers had to start out as "B" listers first;)
As a side note, why is your name not in the "A" lister category? I would consider you there, after meeting you at the Toronto '05 SES I became a fan of yours as well. You are a very smart and personable man. I do look forward to hearing you speak at the San Jose SES next month on the Social Track. I have tons of questions about social tagging/bookmarking.
Mike - I think John, while better known than I, probably is not (yet) an SEO whose name everyone knows. He's a smart guy and a neighbor of mine, actually, but his profile isn't one I'd characterize as "known wherever the acronym SEO is known" - that's what I meant by A-listers - it doesn't refer to skill or quality, just fame.
It is not easy to get on the "A" list. It is a very closed group. You can become friends with the "A" list quite easily. Unless you have been around for quite a while or have a populer forum/blog you are not going to get on the "A" list. I know a lot of people on the list and most of them no me but I am by no means on the "A" list and I have been around since 2003.
On the number of SEOs, it's interesting how many "lurkers" there are. Makes it a challenge to gage overall size. I started with SEO in 1997-8 and never made a forum post of any kind until 2001. It was Kim's forum I believe. Just call me "OG Lurker".
For reference: - Marketing Sherpa lists 121 SEO firms in it's latest buyer's guide - SEMPO has over 400 members - SEO Consultants lists 150 firms/consultants
There are other lists too, but all together don't count everyone who is a SEO practitioner, particularly the large number of independent consultants.
deleted dupe post
Actually, Todd - I want to, but didn't have the time. Maybe late tonight I can do it...
And Todd - the link to Stuntdubl is broken in your profile - needs an https://
Yah, Rand, if you wouldn't mind, please link my name to debt-consolidation-quote-info-center.biz. Thanks! ;-)
Wow once uploaded my pic looks TERRIBLE what gives!
That's because you're not using an adorable dog as your picture. :)
ciml is definitely an OG;)
Thanks for havin' the balls to post this list Rand...I was too worried to miss someone:)
Heh...if you really wanted to get up the "smooch factor" you could have linked to them all:)
Yeah - I think there's at least 50K folks who call themselves SEOs worldwide, if not more, but only about 3-4K who are active, regular participants in the online "community" we've come to know and love :)
Thomas - very true (although Brett's on there). I'm one of the people who never make it over to SEOChat (anymore), and there's certainly a ton of folks not on the lists (after all, a guy's gotta work sometime).
With the A-listers or some of the very popular folks, though, you'll typically find them in 3+ forums, commenting on multiple comments, and being linked to by 10 or more notable bloggers on a regular basis. Jen fits that more than Tim does, although his "weather reports" may have changed that somewhat.
Shak and Jake probably belong in OGs, but even I don't know who ciml is??
My point, though, is that you probably could actually write out a comprehensive list - that alone tells me that SEO is barely bigger than a midwest high school ~3-4K.
ciml WMW Profile 3770 posts in 4 years and lots of good stuff.
If you look at how many different people attend SES and PubCon across the globe and then add hobby SEOs that spend about 10 hours/week on it you prolly come closer to 10k.
I don't know if there are any forums out there that give away this information, but OMTalk for example has already almost 700 active users where 99% speak german as native language. Now estimate the US market about 6-10 times as big, add the UK, Canada, Asia, ... and the number is much higher. Or just do a search on the number of WMW profiles: Google Search [allintitle:"WebmasterWorld Member Profile"]
I think the community of folks that go to a lot of conferences is quite small (less than 100) and pretty much knows each other, but there are also LOTS of people that look up to these folks.
And, don't forget the SEO-Graveyard, where people who were SEO's, like me (1996-2002) ride off into the sunset, train in a related field so we can work with SEO's, and for kicks, blog about you all and run a forums for SEO's and other web site folks to get a little link love in.
And yeah, there's really nothing like going to conferences and getting plastered with a bunch of SEO's to make you feel special. The first time I did it I was worried I didn't sound professional to the people I was meeting. Funnily enough, someone I most worried about later hired me.
At the next one, I'm planning on dancing on the bar.
The list is by no means all-inclusive - I'd have to spend a lot longer. I simply wanted to do some illustration, providing a full blown list would be much, much more time consuming.
I hope no one's offended because they're not on the list... There's no prize for being mentioned, after all. :)
Good to see ya:) Out of curiousity tom...what is the motivation for ending a long streak of lurking? I'm sure there are plenty others who have done the same. After seeing it for sometime...what finally makes community participation attractive?
I DEFINITELY agree about the sense of humor bit. Before I knew anything at all about SEO, I was accepted into the fold simply because I joked around. Now, that can only take you so far because in the end, its those who know SEO that people come to respect.
Randfish, I’m one of those silent 50K. I’ve dabbled in SEO and pay per click campaigns as a hobby for about 7 years—off and on. Although I have enjoyed the forums, I rarely if ever post. I’ve decided just recently to become more of a participant. By the way, I’m impressed with your site, tools, and articles. Keep up the good work.
One thing that really gets you noticed is good information. I got my start in SEO forums about a year ago and since then I have been heavily involved in several SEO/marketing forums, helping people, whom like myself at one point, know nothing about SEO/M.
I can't tell you how many e-mails I get from people saying "are you scottfish from SEOchat?" or, " I saw your post on so-and-so's blog." -Being active really helps, not only do you build up a loyal following of readers for your site, but you can drive a lot of business by branding yourself correctly.
Rand has done an excellent job of branding SEOmoz and himself as well! I've always been the only "fish" in town, that is untill I learned SEO, now I'm competing with Rand Fish(kin)... But Rand, you do know, I have the real claim on the last name of "Fish". :)
Knowing EGOL's real name moves you up toward the top of the A list!
I think it makes a huge difference which community you're in. There are some WMW folks that are quite famous there (take Shak, ciml, bakedjake, ...) that make it never over to SEOChat for example. Also there are some people that are only well-known within certain types of SEOs (Button Pushers come into my mind). Also the community is bigger than a lot of people think. There are even people like Tim Mayer or Jen Slegg that are recognized by thousands of people out there and would be on the top of a- or b-list for many SEOs out there.