I'm having a tough time deciding whether or not online professional networking sites are absolutely brilliant or a waste of time, especially in SEO. We're talking the LinkedIn / Spoke / Xing brigade; you fill out information about yourself but you aren't required to provide a list of your favourite movies or whether your body time is "athletic" or has "more to love." Instead, your information is all about your education, work experience and various fields of expertise.
It all sounds fantastic. What better way to market yourself? The sites in question are generally very tidy, clean, professional affairs. They're what corporate offices' waiting rooms would be like if they were web pages.
From my short time in search, I've determined that being well educated, passionate and intelligent is only part of the deal. Your personality is equally important, and it's hard to get charisma or flair across on LinkedIn. Although I'm well aware that this industry is probably more personality-driven than some others, I do wonder whether these sites are as useful as they seem.
For starters, it's hard to build an online relationship. Through various other online means, I "met" quite a few SEOs before actually coming face to face with them. However, I did not communicate with them on professional networking sites and I'm convinced that, had we all been using a more formal site, we'd not have been networking and forming relationships in quite the way that we were. As it were, we used sites and messaging services that better allow users to flaunt their personalities.
There is the question of potential clients reaching you or your company through these sites, but we've found that the companies and people who we end up working with virtually never find us through a professional networking sites. Did I say "virtually"? I meant just plain "never."
Granted, there are professional fields where anything personal or informal is not acceptable. If you wish to have an online presence in these worlds, you'll find the sites I'm questioning to be of great use. For me, though, I don't have the drive to keep a quality, up-to-date LinkedIn profile, as I've found the most rewarding and profitable SEO relationships don't require such a formal platform. What do you guy think? Is it worth maintaining what amounts to an online resumé in our industry? Or is the "well, it can't hurt" argument just not enough to make it worthwhile?
UPDATE: For those who are interested, here's a really sweet guide on SEO'ing your LinkedIn profile. Still might not help you find drinking buddies, though :)
By: Jane Copland
Are Professional Networking Sites Worthwhile?
Public Relations
The author's views are entirely his or her own (excluding the unlikely event of hypnosis) and may not always reflect the views of Moz.
>>>we used sites and messaging services that better allow users to flaunt their personalities
I think what you meant to say there was "I never would have known Rae was so freaking cool from Linkedin, but through Facebook, I was able to see how much she totally rocked. :P
I keep my Linkedin profile up to date. It really doesn't take a ton of effort once you fill out the initial profile. Just add new contacts in at the end of every conference. The main use that I've found for it is that clients and former colleagues have given me recommendations on my linkedin profile, allowing me to direct people there to see "references" rather than having to get permission to give out former colleagues or clients contact information each time.
That said, I've made some of my strongest contacts in mainly two ways... either in person at conferences/gatherings or via true social networking sites - like Facebook or even forums.
I think you've summed it up well... I know that I should fill out my LinkedIn profile. It's one of those things "to do." Another one of those things.
That makes a lot of sense Rae. I hadn't thought of the idea of using LinkedIn for references though I don't have any to show at the moment either.
I think I filled in a third of my profile and you're right that it's easy enough to fill in the rest and maintain it.
Good day all
I am going to take a step back and be more general. I think that it is beneficial to show more of your personality than to be more reserved and unaffected.
"Business" has a tradition of being uber serious and well, "strictly business." I think this is too affectatious; cmon, we all have personalities (I picture Bill Gates going home at the end of the day and playing with his Voltron action figures).
Seriously, it is more comforting to me to "do business" with someone if I feell that all the cards are on the table. I think the existence of blogs is good for business because it is conducive to more informal conversation. Maybe it is not good practice to tell them you like shots of tequila and still skateboard despite being 28 (until I die), but you need to give people something tangible about yourself so they get to really know who you are.
Successfully networking and socializing is contingent on honesty and chemistry. Some people you will "connect" with and will not with others. I think it will be enormously beneficial for both parties if the rapport is good.
Forcing a relationship because it will be "good business" is not exercising your optimal potential. If you don't link (haha) well with someone and stay with them, you are missing an opportunity with someone else. (Like the continuance of dating a girl who makes fun of you for still skating though you're 28- buh-bye).
The more reserved sites could be used to potentially garner a more informal relationship in the future.
Thanks for reading- good weekend to you
Hell yeah. I was thinking earlier this morning about setting up a network of people who will only refer other fun people to one another - life's too short to want to do business at all costs.
Your comment is one of the best I've seen recently.
A great image.
I use LinkedIn a lot, so I can speak of its usefulness for search marketers, especially for those that are in-house or at agencies. If you are used to MySpace, Facebook, Friendster etc. then you may find LinkedIn very dry, uninteresting and perhaps even uncompelling.
As Jane mentioned, LinkedIn is a professional networking site. With search marketing such a hot area it really is worth your while to build a decent LinkedIn profile.
1. Passive job-seeking - Search is hot. Recruitment agencies scour LinkedIn for search marketers like a flamethrower through dry brush. I probably average a call a week from one recruitment agency or another that 'saw my profile on LinkedIn'. That's a pretty good way to keep your pulse on the job market. Even better if you are looking to move. I also know web analytics & especially Omniture is hot. Every so often recruiters have called simply looking for me to refer search marketers with Omniture experience.
2. Professional networking duh - You don't want that creepy, quiet guy from logistics as a Myspace friend, but there's no reason not to have him on your LinkedIn network. Who knows, he might be the source of your next contract or job.
It's definitely not as smooth as the popular social networks but utilize it for professional contacts. For example, I was able to connect Richard MacManus' ReadWriteWeb with the GoogleMapsMania creator (Mike Pegg) for an article.
3. Competitive intelligence & research - this one is extremely cool. If you have a wide enough extended network, you can actually see which companies are recruiting for what. I remember watching a recent recruitment drive for Murdoch's News Corp happen in front of my (LinkedIn) eyes. Interesting positions filled, to say the least.
You can also get in tight with the super-recruiters (these uber networkers have thousands of connections) and simply ask which companies have been hiring in your area.
Another example is the afore-mentioned Mike Pegg. Guess how I found out Mike had been hired by Google?
Tips:
My tip is to do everything you can to hit that magic '100% complete profile' mark. Get some recommendations, load your description & experience with keywords that describe your core competencies. And whore yourself:
Feel free to connect to me:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucasng
email: ng dot lucas at gmail.com ;)
edit: Even Mr Kawasaki has a top 10 ways to use LinkedIn
I can well believe that recruiters look for people who know how to use complicated systems like Omniture. It goes to show that you should mention everything you know on sites like this, even if you don't immediately think that it's important.
It's great you brought this topic up Jane.
I've had some experience in using these professional networking sites, mostly with LinkedIn and Ryze.
I totally agree that LinkenIn doesn't allow you to show your personality very much which is very important in starting/building relationships online. When you just list your credentials off your resume, everyone just looks the same.
Although, I have to say through my profile on LinkedIn, I have been approached by headhunters for job opportunities and I hardly touched my LinkedIn account/profile at that time. Since then, I have started to complete my profile more.
From what I hear a lot of recruiters use LinkedIn for recruiting purposes.
In terms of SEO purposes, that's a tough call too. I have seen LinkedIn profiles come up in the top 5 SERPs of certain searches though (also top results from ecademy profiles - although, I'm not a big fan of ecademy).
I've also used Ryze for the last 3-4 yrs now. Ryze seems to give you a chance to show a bit more personality but I'm bit on the fence as to their true usefullness for "professionals".
There's a lot (a LOT) of MLM people on Ryze but if you disregard this, I actually found some helpful leads in terms of getting recommendations for suppliers in various countries where I otherwise wouldn't know where to start.
For me, I haven't used any of these professional networking sites for SEO purposes but more as an additional marketing channel and research tool.
Finally, to answer your question: is it worth the time? I probably wouldn't spend that much time on them "optimising" your pages but it's definitely worth the few minutes to complete a decent profile because you really don't have much to lose from it.
Like tao83, I was getting pinged by headhunters almost daily through LinkedIn at the beginning of the year. Answering questions also seems to attract a lot of interest to your profile.
As for SEO purposes, linking out to your own stuff from these types of sites is nice, but the parasitic SEO aspect for reputation management or vanity search optimization purposes is also nice, as well.
I can see where headhunters might approach you through LinkedIn. The site always struck me as one that would be more useful for corporate networking then it would be for more general social networking.
A LinkedIn profile can be usefull, especially when backed up by a personal site/blog, where you can showcase your personality.
linkedin is certainly good for seo and for people who already know your name and search for you; my linkedin profile showed up in the serps for my name after only a week. You can also link to your sites as well :-)
Hi there,
great article, i think its realy worth to invest time in such profiles. i use xing and linkedin, i like xing more actually but really got some great contacts and even clients here!!
Hey Jane, ask Rand where's Whiteboard Friday? Friday's almost over. :)
Second that. I'm jonesing for some end-of-day video mozzery.
And remember, we're on the West Coast, too! It'll be done before five p.m. our time, everyone. All you New Yorkers can have Whiteboard Saturday.
Sigh... ok... * twiddles thumbs *
Hey, did you just call me a New Yorker?! I'm from Chicago, you Aussie ;)
Heyyy, I didn't call you a New Yorker. I pretty much just picked the biggest East Coast city :)
Goddamn people from Michigan (;P right back at ya).
Better than Indiana, Crocodile Dundee :p
Ok, this may be getting silly. See what happens when we don't get our Whiteboard Friday fix?
Scott is working on it as we speak. And don't bug him because he gets cranky when he's working on the videos! It'll be up soon :)
PS: Jack and Dans or the Bulldog tonight :P ?
Thanks. Tell him to hurry up ;)
He threw his water bottle at me!
But seriously, I think he's going to put it up there soon.
I WILL KILL YOU ALL!
Just kidding. It's uploading to iFilm right now, hopefully it'll be speedy on the back-end and live by five.
Wow, that had a very drive-time-DJ sound to it.
Great advice Jane. I started with Linkedin 4/20/07 and already have 18,000+ connections. and your advice will help make them work better for me.
I am requesting that my clients read your post to enable them to get the most from their Linkedin account.
I suppose my point was that LinkedIn is a good way of building certain relationships, but not relationships of the personal kind. However, it sounds like you're leveraging the site amazingly well! I am becoming more convinced that I should go on the site and flesh out my profile some more...
I don't know if I see much value in having so many connections. If I were to look for someone to hire on there I wouldn't go with the highest recommendation or connection count, as that has a spammy feel to me. Like that person tired to "connect with" every one they could find, looking for clicks from people in the same boat.
I'd look for more realistic numbers based on work experience, and cross-reference like crazy.
I guess it depends on how those contacts were obtained and what one does with them. I understand your sentiment though: my friends on Facebook who have 4282 friends at my university? I mean, come on. You added everyone in your freshman biology class, didn't you? No one's that popular.
Personally I find the whole business networking ’scene’ extremely dry and it shouldn’t be like this. We don’t live to work but work to live. I’ve found more business contacts through myspace and facebook that I have through Ryze or LinkedIn. Perhaps I’m not using it to its potential but I find it much more enjoyable and engaging developing a network in myspace and facebook. Plus side is that whilst developing my business network or contacts I can, at the same time, indulge in my favourite hobby……music
Having praised Linked In a few posts back I have to say i am disappointed to see them using Google Ads alongside my business - especially since I actually pay Linked In each year.
eCademy anyone use this site??????
Cheers
David
Maybe I'm an exception in some way, but I've been contacted by a couple of clients through LinkedIn and a couple through Xing.com too. I've also learned valuable tips (not about SEO of course) from my network on both sites.
Very true. Many of them seem to be mirror images of each other as well.
Well, very true. Most of them are same. However, www.paracalls.com seems different from others. They provides professional resources like Business Documents, Dynamic Resume builder, Articles etc, professional resources beside providing an environment for professional networking.
Technically, they are different from others too. Member pages is completely built on Ajax as a result they are very fast.
Michael Rams Backer CEO & Founder 2 Tiny URL Inc. www.2tiny.in
Hi I use another professional networking site, Konnects.com. They do allow members to show off yourself as a professional, but they also offer our members to tell a little about themselves on a personal level. For instance, they have a whole page of our profile wizard that allows you as an option to tell other members your favorite TV shows, books, food etc. It makes it more open for people to not only explore a professional network, but meet others who share the same interests as them.
I also forgot to add - that Fast Pitch has the most aggressive SEO service of all the Social Networks - really giving exposure on the web to my profile.
I created a profile at Linkedin a while ago just to see how it worked, but I rarely visited the site since.
I totall agree with your premise of wondering if these sites help. I can tell you from personal experience that I have a profile on LinkedIn, XING and Fast Pitch!
The only site that seems to offer true networking tools and marketing tools is Fast Pitch - Professional Networking Website.
The key to networking is not just putting up a resume, or connecting to people online - but building a community around shared ideas, content and context. Fast Pitch allows people to do this effectively.... and thus it has become a great tool for me to market and network.
I'm still on the fence about the professional networking sites. I'm playing around on LinkedIn to see if I find value in it. So far, I've had a couple of interesting reasons to stay in the loop.
The new Answers section is interesting, although people are starting to spam it already. I find it's less about connecting with people who do what I do, and more about connecting with people who need what I do or who have something I need.
I would also consider SEOmoz a professional networking site. I wouldn't use linkedin to connect with SEO folks, because that's what sites like this one are for.
In my experience I've found that these sites still end up being just your drinking buddies saying professionally acceptable things about you. Most of the key players you work with aren't very active on these sites (they have a profile but never log on) because, let's face it, they're busy working ;)
As a source of referrals - these networking sites are most very likely the last place someone would look for a seo company.
I've found LinkedIn useful recently, as it was a quick & simple way of keeping hold of contact details whilst switching jobs & therefore email address.
I also used to get quite a few calls from the recruitment agencies, although that seems to have tailed off.
I also agree with those who mentioned the recommendations feature - I've been very active in recommending people I've actually worked with, and hope to gain some web karma sometime soon!
I like the recommendation feature, but last time I was on LinkedIn, it was a trick to find out who'd recommended whom. Has this changed?
I got a freelance consulting offer via LinkedIn (that I tried to redirect to to SEOmoz but failed).
linked in it is a way to start networking, but for sure you will get better results by meeting people offline!
I gave it another look last year and got my circle into it, but its really done nothing for me or the group that I can measure.
I think other networking sites just pulled interest away from it and it comes off as a very old way to use the web to network.
I get much more out of social marketing and networking.
Cool article Jane... I appreciate your expanding insights and substantial posts on the blog.
I agree that the LinkedIn is kind of sterile, but it's definitely a high-power audience worth spending at least little time on.
I've spent wayyy to much time on building up my Digg and Reddit network of friends (anyone? anyone?) and I need to hop on over to LinkedIn and dust off my profile, seeing that I'm moving to Denver next week and I will be job shopping.
Thanks for the reminder.
There are many such applications but in social networking it is the flies that attract other flies not the honey. You make a crowd and people will come to see what the crowd is all about.
For all these social networking the important factor is the data, linkedin now has some good data. Check https://www.linkedin.com/rs?search=&sik=1177021146607&company1=google&startYear1=2000&endYear1=2007
The above link will tell you the list of people worked in Google from 2000 to 2007. This is useful to check feedback about a person before recruiting them.
Linkedin helps in building reputation in terms of business or Job.
I use Linked In and do well - The three links are handy but my big tip is to NOT use your name and use SEO Wherever instead
Works nice!
Charlotte SEO
LinkedIn is a great way to gain new contacts, job offers and contract work. If you're looking to find SEO's on LinkedIn, check out LinkedSEO.com.
Done it. Somewhat half-heartedly. Had nothing out of it (you get what you put in though, I guess).
I think you're absolutely right about that, Will. Too many people use web-based tools as a bit of a cop out; they go on them, sign up, and then wait for something to happen. I see the same thing with job-hunters. There's a big difference between posting your resume on Monster.com and then making a sandwich and watching TV versus actively networking.
I've also gotten very little value out of Linked-in, as I've put very little into it. On the other hand, I've gotten a lot of professional value out of my blog and writing for local associations, because I put time and effort into them and follow up.
With no experience in using these sites, I have little to say except that I remember when I first saw linkedin and I remember thinking about it and deciding if I was going to go through the motions and make a profile. I decided in a couple of seconds that I would not, and really have not had any interaction with such sites since.
This makes me wonder... Did I err to do so? I too am interested to hear what specifically got people to join these sites and what good or bad came from it.
I love the"They're what corporate offices' waiting rooms would be like if they were web pages." analogy.
Very nice. It may well be exactly that tidiness that kept me from choosing in those short seconds not to bother with it.
I see value to the site as well. After I got hired at my current job everyone told me that the team tried to dig up dirt on me doing a google search for my name. Just so they know what to expect before my interview.
Had my name come up on a MySpace page with 300 friends all saying pretty racy things about my activities and habits, I would have probably lost the job right there.
Had a page on LinkedIn showed up, with a decent number of connections and recommendations instead, it would have made the interview process a little easier. People like to hear other people's opinions on products and people.
Needless to say, they couldn't find anything about me online - which is probably also a good thing ;)
I was pretty convinced that anyone looking to employ me (a recent college grad) would be all over MySpace, FB etc in search of dirt. As it turns out, SEOmoz didn't trawl through these sites looking for us interviewees; some people actually pointed to their MySpace pages in their resumes, which is a dumb idea no matter how clean your page is. You'll have some comment or some friend who doesn't reflect well on you.
I like your point about the interview process being made easier (or, at least, more interesting) had the company found a LinkedIn profile. A potential employer would have both your resume, cover letter and profile from which to draw questions and comments.
I'm amazed what people list on their resumes. I used to get applicants with email addresses like "[email protected]" (not an exaggeration). Um, yes, very professional; don't call us, we'll call you.
About a month before I graduated from college, I had the university change my college email address because, although it was only a slight variation on my full name, I didn't consider it to be resume material. Now, my .wsu.edu address is spotless.
Why does this not occur to some people!? my 14-year-old email address of [email protected] looked trashy to me by the time I was 15, let alone 23.
This also reminds me that I need to lock more of my LiveJournal pages :)
I actually currently have an email that has the words monster, evil and bitch in it. I am not looking though and have a professional email address for when I do.
Right now, it's good for a giggle *grins*
I think the concept behind LinkedIn is great. It provides a great way to reconnect with people you've worked with in the past and may have not kept in contact with or even forgot about. I've had a lot of "oh i totally forgot about that guy!" moments on LinkedIn.
I think the real value is in the paid version (I only use the free version right now) and that in 2 or 3 more years as it begins to saturate more mainstream people.
Also, I think its one of those tools that will age well if you really manage it properly. You may not need a job now, but next year or the next, LinkedIn could prove to be a very valuable resource.
I definitely agree with connecting with people you've worked with in the past.
I setup a profile, updated it then kinda forgot about it. Yesterday I got an email invitiation from my old employer, and it was a very nice surprise to hear from him again. For that purpose alone, I think it's worth having a page on there.
I have a profile in linkedIn for 6 months now. I have in it like 30 people i really know and worked with in the past or present. I'm not trying to create a larger network and actually not using it at all except for adding new people i already know. I will test this service the next time that i will search for a job or look for employees. After looking at some contacts that my friends have i'm positive that in the long run this service will bring me much benefits in creating new professinal relationships. I don't see this site as an online presence at all, for me it's a practical tool to manage my real professinal life.
Benny,
https://bloodsweatandbugs.blogspot.com/
I use LinkedIn to ensure I have all my contacts in a single place as when I meet folk at an SEO thing I might then need their services later on (or in one case plug them in a paper).
It's also nice to hear from recruiters to see what going on out there.
I don't really thinkof it as a way to drive business - more of a way to get recruited.
It all depends on how extensively you utilize the functionalities of LinkedIn. True, it's difficult to get across much of your personality on your LinkedIn profile page. But there are at least two ways to overcome this:
1. Get deeply involved in the Question and Answer portion of the site. Do your best to provide useful information to anyone and everyone asking a question related to your expertise. That's the most obvious way.
2. Engage people on their blogs. You already do this with people you know or blogs you regularly read. But if you are wanting to establish more personable relationships with other business professionals, post the link to your blog on your profile and follow the links to blogs on other people's profiles. Start engaging them where they "live." It's not a direct LinkedIn method, but LinkedIn provides the opportunity for you to find people within business verticals. If they don't have a blog URL posted on their profile, send them a msg through LinkedIn and ask them to add their URL so that you can visit and provide feedback.
There is perhaps nothing more engaging than an intelligent comment made about your blog post. Trust me, if you can communicate that you are intrigued by what a person blogs about, you've made a true connection.
I've only recently signed up with LinkedIn, and have very little experience with business social networking sites.
Within just a few days of creating my profile I was given a "recommendation" by a former boss on my profile. I've also found that my newest business associate whom has many, many business contacts uses their site as well - which I believe is something to be said.
Whether it works or not is debatable, but It certainly cannot hurt to join up and spend a few minutes assuming you have the free time. I don't regret it one bit.