“Those that know, do. Those that understand, teach.” You've heard the saying, but for few industries does it ring more true than online marketing. Experts in SEO, PPC, Social Media and web analytics take on clients or use their knowledge to create software, but rarely are they found in the classroom.
So even though we typically do not promote offers from other companies on the SEOmoz Blog, we thought the
Internet Marketing Certification Courses Market Motive is offering were worth a mention. Starting on Monday September 14th Market Motive will have online courses with 90-days of lessons taught by an impressive array of industry experts.
At $3,500 the courses are not inexpensive, but students get a lot from the interactive classes, including video tutorials, live phone conferences, online testing, and faculty reviews. The folks at Marketing Motive also agreed to give a $500 discount for SEOmoz readers. Just use the SEOmoz coupon code when you sign up -- CERT30SEOMZ.
About SamNiccolls84 —
Sam Niccolls is an online marketer. He specializes in SEO, SEM, e-mail, and web analytics and currently works at SEOmoz as a traffic and conversion specialist.
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Honestly I don't quite see who this is aimed at. The Pro membership here is way cheaper, as is a subscription to SEO Book and both of those options offer a pretty decent level of insight.
$3K is a lot to fork out on a diploma from a company no potential employer will have heard of.
and how much of the $3k paid goes to SEOmoz by way of commission?
$0.00 if you must know.
Great comments so far.
We should clarify that seoMOZ Pro is a great place to share and learn SEO. And the tools are unbeatable.
Market Motive is a little bit different in that it has structured courses, graded hands-on projects and some tough testing. Students have weekly phone/screen sessions with the faculty to stay on track. Some people prefer this to supplement the conference or forum model.
To stay up to date, the course videos, projects and tests are updated monthly, sometimes weekly. Students must perform an live dissertation defense of their coursework (here’s an MP3 of a recent SEO graduation) and must impress the Market Motive faculty, a live audience, and invited authorities, such as Rand, in order to graduate.
The value of the certificate of completion itself is both overrated and underrated depending on who’s looking. The real value is in the quality of the training, the endorsement of the authorities, and the success record of the graduates who make it through the program.
Hi Michael,
Thanks for taking the time to reply to the comments here. I know, going by the thumbs down to this post the replies might be disconcerting, and I'm glad to see you offered another side to the discussion :)
Personally, I thought the best part of your response was the statement "The value of the certificate of completion itself is both overrated and underrated depending on who’s looking", which probably responds to a lot of the commenters concerns.
The fact that students must perform a live dissertation in front of a live audience and invited authorities completely intrigues me... I think perhaps the post shouldn't be pitched as a place for "Certification" (I think we can all agree that certification in an industry like ours is still largely unknown territory), but rather framed as simply an excellent place to study the arts... with the involvement of well-respected authorities :)
I think Burgo really nails it here. Certifications are a dime a dozen in the computer field.
The developer in me goes 'another?'
the SEO in me goes 'but there is already SEOmoz'
and the marketer in me goes 'don't BS and BSer that's $3k!'.
It seems this class would be a nice launch point for a SEO career but I can't see myself getting one after working as an SEO for any amount of time.
I’ll chime in with my two cents …
I took the SEO Masters Certification with MarketMotive and I am very pleased with the course and the results. My goal for the course was not to impress a new company with my resume, although I proudly include the Certification as part of my resume ;)
My goal was to learn, to understand the intricacies and the fallacies of SEO. I wanted to learn from people who have done SEO for awhile, to learn what worked for them in their own experiences and to put to test their advice on my own small e-commerce website.
The course turned out to be a very good fit for me, I learn by doing. They gave me a comprehensive historical view on why things work the way the do, why certain techniques may work better than others and how to accommodate these techniques based on different environments. I got to learn their personal opinions about the SEO practices they liked and the ones they did not cared for. I even got to witness some outstanding debates among themselves.
Reading articles and blogs is great. Trust me, I spent a lot of time in SEOMoz validating and solidifying many of the concepts being taught by MarketMotive. In the end, being able to build a small site from scratch and put all the rules/regulations into practice gave me a completely different view of what makes a good SEO. In my opinion, SEO is not only knowing the rules and applying them. It comes down to discerning how and when to use them wisely to take their full advantage. More important, was to learn to slow down and evaluate when not to use some techniques or learning to use them in a limited fashion.
The course gave me an overall view of what it takes for Programmers/Developers, Copywriters, Usability Architects, UI Designers to get their work done. I gained respect for their jobs and a better understanding of how to be able to work with them.
The work is challenging, it takes time and it definitely takes commitment. There is lots of material that needs to be researched on your own if you truly want to get the best out of the course. No, they do not spoon feed all the SEO information. After all, part of being a competent SEO is to go out in the trenches, find out on your own what works and what doesn’t, to test, test, test and to keep up with ongoing changes and events.
To me, their value was providing me with a solid base of where SEO came from, how it has evolved and how to take advantage of it by using solid, proven techniques. They gave me the opportunity to put those techniques to work and I was able to discuss and debate the rationale for all my decisions. Overall, a very good learning experience.
It’s a good opportunity to pick the brains of people who have been there and done it and to learn from their successes and mistakes. In the end, people learn in different ways and this course may not be for everyone. I thought the least I could do was to share my own experience.
To anyone taking any of the upcoming courses, Cheers!
Is SEOmoz now agreeing with the concept of certification within our industry? I’ll agree to certification so long as the entire industry recognizes the certificate. I think most would agree that the Google AdWords and Analytics certification hold some merit and is recognized by clients; but who exactly is MarketMotive? Am I walking into a client waving a piece of paper saying “Hey, I’m certified by MarketMotive”, they’d look at me and ask “Who?”
I am taking the MarketMotive course this quarter.
Why? I mean I've been doing this for 8 years now and have one of the coolest inhouse SEO jobs in the country (Tribune).
Here's why:
I teach hundreds of journalists and seeing how they present the materials and the methods they take in making sure the information is understood is important to me because I need to do the same for the writers, bloggers, photographers, editors, managers, technical folks, etc. at Tribune.
I am hopeful that some type of higher education coursework will develop over a period of time for this industry. This is the first crack at it and I want to support it.
The instructors are the best in the industry, period. Getting an opportunity to pick their brains, develop stronger relationships, and just get to know what their favorite drink may be, is important.
Being self taught is always great because you learn things by experience but in doing so you also may miss out on some of the finer points along the way. This course will hopefully provide me with a well rounded SEO education. Not looking for anything breakthrough just make sure I didn't miss a tidbit here or there.
The certification will mean something to someone. Google's Adwords certification doesn't mean much to most people but it does mean something to some people. Why not cover your bases by getting a certification that provides all of the above benefits and just may close a consulting opportunity or clench an inhouse role for you?
I'll report on Twitter and my personal blog what I honestly think of the MarketMotive crew but I can tell you I had my first call today for class and it was very professional and I 'm impressed so far.
I see SEO as an ever changing field. Having this certification, would be like showing that you know how to use an Abacus, almost worthless.
I agree with everyone else and say spend your money on a PRO membership here and/or a subscription to SEO Book. With those two memberships you can exceed what this certification would give you.
Maybe its time to post to youmoz the post i did about Postgraduate Social Media courses and see how that measures up to these.
3.5k for an online course? Is Avinash really going to tell me stuff that I cant already read/see in his many online videos?
btw are they an officially recognised provider of education? Does it count towards an actual degree or is just a pretty piece of paper?
Formal Education is definitely coming to the onine marketing sphere, dont know if this is good enough though.
The course they are offering starts tomorrow?! Would be nice if they offered some evalution tests when thinking about the courses. Kind of give you an idea of what you might learn or be missing in your knowledge.
I also agree with some of the other comments that this is an unproven, unknown certification that may or may not end up being valuable.
Instead of spending $3.5k on courses, I rather spend $80 each month for subscribing PRO member and start to get hands dirty on some practical work.
lol, haven't seen this kind of promotion for a while on seomoz blog though.
No disrespect to the array of industry experts. I am sure we can all say that we have learned a great deal by a few of those people listed above. (and a thank you goes out to those people!)
However, the way I figure it is.
$3500 in course(s) VS 44 months of a SEOMoz pro membership where there is a virtual bottomless pit of useful information to be found, and access to great tools.
I'll take that over a peice of paper that certifies me in an industry where certification isn't really recognized.
I partially feel bad for criticising this, since I have learned a great deal from some of those people above by reading what they had to say....
Someone else posted on here that the "resumes" will speak for themselves.
I couldn't agree more. When I have been discussing possible contracts or jobs, I never got asked about certification, I got asked about my track record and had to show them evidence of that.
My two bits.
100% agree with you.
SEO is for many, if not most, a learning process still. This is why you see many reputable blogs still testing things out, trial and error. Everyones learning. Sure there are experts in the field that we follow on a day to day basis but alot of times, the "expert" are great speakers, not necessarily great SEO's. They are great self promoters and marketers and are good at speaking about what they do (heaven forbid i talk down on the people we, i included, listen to religiously and follow daily, but this is subject for another day)
back on topic - the 44 months of personal training and trial and error, on the long run, will be much more beneficial and get you much more recognized than a piece of paper that someone signed that states that you are certified. The 44 months will put results on your resume and a story to tell. The certification? Does anyone even know how to begin explaining what this certification even is...?
Who knows, maybe as times go by, these certifications will have their place. But let's be honest, some of the most experience experts in seo will inevitably, "fail" an exam or dissertation.What happens to their credibility now?
Call me insecure in my abilities to take a course and become certified, but I like where my career is headed with the results I've shown.
SEO certification that is recognised by others in the industry is certainly a step in the right direction. In the UK we often receive phone calls saying "Don't you want to be at the top of Google for xyz term" and certification would certainly help differentiate us from those charlatans. But, and it is a big but $3k is a lot of cash and if you have to find it out of your personal budget you need to be absolutely sure it will have a large positive effect on your employment prospects. If you are a freelance with a strong track record or already employed and your employer will not stump up the cash I suspect the SEOmoz subscription combined with networking and personal experimentation time may well serve you better in the long term. I'm all for certification in SEO but the price needs to be accessible otherwise those who are good will continue on their reputations (and peer reviewed work) and those who are poor will simply ignore it.
heres the problem i foresee happening with certifications such as these.
1. Despite price of certification, if this certification becomes recognized as the be-all certificate of SEO, whats to stop literally anyone from obtaining this certificate? This certificate holds no secret or exam that weeds out those who are not deserving, its merely - pay $3500 and become a legitimate SEO (according to MarketMotive that is...) Ultimately, this certificate will mean absolutely nothing, thus back to square 1.
2. Let the resume/portfolio speak for itself. When it comes to SEO, it seems like an SEO's track record should often say enough to consider him/her knowledgable in the matter. SEO is a result driven industry - no results? no ones interested. So to say this certificate makes a certain SEO "certified" is just the wrong step in weeding out the charlatans. I say let the resumes and portfolios do what they're supposed to do. Its only a matter of time before those who do not get results get shafted out of clients.
Certifications can have value, provided they are:
1.) Awarded on the basis of merit (i.e. exam), and not just given out as default in return for paying money.
2.) Recognised; this takes time be acquired, but there needs to eventually be some level of acknowledgement in the wider industry.
In principal I have no problems with certifications whatsoever. I also have no problem with paying large $ for online delivery models - to automatically assume this is a poor ugly cousin in comparison to in-class learning can deprive you of valuable learning opportunities.
The emergence of certifications in the online marketing industry merely suggests that the industry is starting to mature. It's a natural and healthy progression for any industry.
Many certifications need to be renewed on a regular basis this isn't a one shot solution I am sure. I would also expect the SEOmoz team to see some value to post this on the website.
I do think SEO should have a certification even if that only means your idea of SEO isn't taking a client's money only to provide a black stain to our community.
Otherwise I agree with most of what is said and a firm believer that if you're willing to invest a lot of time testing and reading I am sure you can learn most of what you need to know but if your time is more valuable then this certification maybe worth it.
Just my thoughts. Please do not Kanye West me off the soap box. :)
im really surprise this post has ended up on the SEOMoz Blog...
This should be filed in the SEO respices > Discount Store. No?
ctri + F :/
I agree that hands on is much more valuable to learning your craft then a certificate or degree, in any field, but I also have seen people hired simply because they have that pretty piece of paper vs real life experience, so I would like to ask you guys opinion. I’m half way through my Web Technology program at my local college, and I’m learning this is not what I want to do for the rest of my life. I’ve been doing it for almost fourteen years in order to stay home with my children, however, I don’t feel nearly as passionate as I do with internet marketing (seo, keywords, social). It excites me, I love marketing in any aspect and would love a career in internet marketing. What’s the best way to really become a valuable candidate to large companies? How do I stand out? I’ve seen many jobs starting at $70,000 year and I defiantly want to considered and am willing to put in the hard work.
Hiii Everyone,
This is so much high price for learn internet marketing, I though it digital marketing course can be easily done with very low prices. According to your charges $3k , if anyone from India, they have to pay around $3k = (3000*64)= Rs.1,92,000. and i think it's very costly
I'd be careful with using that "those that can" quote, as there's another very close one that goes something like this:
“Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach.”
If this certificate was coming from a more well known company in the SEO industry, I might be inclined to say it might be worth it. But from a company that appears to not have the recognition it thinks it does, I don't know that it will ever hold much merit.
when doing a course such as this you need to ask yourself, is my new/current exployer going to think more of me if i have this?..
chances are they probably will as they are looking to hire an 'expert'
awesome resume & results < industry certification + awesome resume & results
This actually looks like a pretty amazing deal. if you think about the value that is gained for just 3500, well 3K for me it’s almost a no brainer. These guys know there stuff, and if SEOmoz is promoting another company on their blog its probably worth checking out.
i understand the need (edit: more desire than need) for this kind of stuff in the SEO industry but really? Maybe its just me but I'm hesitant to listen to ANYBODY when it comes to SEO/SEM. I'm def not the know-all SEO but I've had my share of success and failures. Even the most respected industry leaders I find myself questioning at times. I learn by guidance from industry blogs but mostly from trial and error. But to pay $3500 to be "certified" by supposed industry leaders, I think I'll pass.
I'd much rather spend that $3500 attending a couple conferences and meeting fellow SEO'ers and such.
*note: i only say "supposed" because I find many things I disagree on with what many popular blogs state.
Seems like but expencive to pay in US $$ as where I live, its 48 Rupees = 1USD