How Many SEO Consultants Actually Know What They're Talking About?

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Rand Fishkin

2012-09-25T11:08:22-07:00

Thanks so much for putting together this project Kurtis & Ashley. Great to see the results. Next time someone complains about how evil the SEO industry is, we can use this as a strong point of evidence that SEOs are by and large, talented, intelligent, ethical, and on the right page (even if methodologies differ).

One request - can we link to all the folks whose sample answers we used?

randfish edited 2012-09-25T11:09:34-07:00
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Thanks so much for putting together this project Kurtis & Ashley. Great to see the results. Next time someone complains about how evil the SEO industry is, we can use this as a strong point of evidence that SEOs are by and large, talented, intelligent, ethical, and on the right page (even if methodologies differ). One request - can we link to all the folks whose sample answers we used?
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- Ashley Sefferman
 
 2012-09-25T11:13:19-07:00
 
 Thanks for the comment, Rand! We were super pleased with the results as well.
 
 The sample answers are from our fantastic top five finalists who are all linked to in the section following the charts :)
 
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 Thanks for the comment, Rand! We were super pleased with the results as well. The sample answers are from our fantastic top five finalists who are all linked to in the section following the charts :)
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- Matthew Egan
 
 2012-09-25T12:01:04-07:00
 
 Rand said, "we can use this as a strong point of evidence that SEOs are by and large, talented, intelligent, ethical, and on the right page (even if methodologies differ)."
 
 Correlation vs. Causation. The companies sampled were pulled from their own Google Rankings, so we have a correlation here that the SEOs who are doing really well in the rankings, are obviously doing good SEO for themselves, so they aren't horrible at SEO.
 
 That shouldn't come as a surprise: Good SEOs rank better on Google. *gasp*
 
 I'd like to see a study that pulls these companies from more diverse sources, or specifically targets companies that do outbound marketing as I'd wager good money that is where our negative reputation stems from. You could make the conclusion from the above study that "SEOs who rank well in their target cities, do good work, so choose an SEO who ranks well" but I can't get behind the statement that ALL of the SEO consultants out there are represented by this study.
 
 There is a Web Design company here in San Antonio that recently started an SEO company because they like the idea of getting a monthly retainer with clients they can't get any regular money out of doing only web design. Their clients have later come into our offices and using SEOmoz tools like OSE we can see the types of links that they're building. Spam, Crap, Nonsense.
 
 They listed this company up on directories and did comment spam where the same copy paste text was being used for their client's website, as well as BDSM sex sites and penis enlargement pills. It was spam of the highest order and she'd had no idea that was what they were doing with her money.
 
 She was also nowhere to be found on Google, not even #1 for her own name.
 
 These guys are not ranking well here in town, but they spend a lot of money on sales people who do cold calling and convince these business owners to A) let them own their clients domain, B) setup a cheapo landing page that their client cannot access, and C) do super low quality link spam and call it SEO.
 
 But the clients don't know any better, so it all sounds great to them.
 
 I'm not trying to be negative here - this study highlights some of the best SEOs and that shows in that they rank well in their own cities - but it's not the people like Dave from Beanstalk who are giving the SEO industry a bad name - it's the people who are leveraging an enhanced visibility of SEO to sell directly to companies who don't know any better.
 
 Literal snake oil salesman are the problem with our industry. Every time a business owner gets burned by a shady SEO provider, their opinion is forever tarnished towards our industry.
 
 Ian Lurie said it right in his comment over at SERoundtable, "If I throw chum in the water, I get nothing but sharks. This wasn't a real test - it was link bait." SEOmoz did the exact opposite of what the Webmaster World folks did, sampling from a group much more likely to achieve the desired outcome in the end data.
 
 The sampling needs ALL SPECTRUMS of SEOs to provide data that we can draw conclusions from.
 
 MatthewEgan edited 2012-09-25T12:01:30-07:00
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 Rand said, "we can use this as a strong point of evidence that SEOs are by and large, talented, intelligent, ethical, and on the right page (even if methodologies differ)." Correlation vs. Causation. The companies sampled were pulled from their own Google Rankings, so we have a correlation here that the SEOs who are doing really well in the rankings, are obviously doing good SEO for themselves, so they aren't horrible at SEO. That shouldn't come as a surprise: Good SEOs rank better on Google. *gasp* I'd like to see a study that pulls these companies from more diverse sources, or specifically targets companies that do outbound marketing as I'd wager good money that is where our negative reputation stems from. You could make the conclusion from the above study that "SEOs who rank well in their target cities, do good work, so choose an SEO who ranks well" but I can't get behind the statement that ALL of the SEO consultants out there are represented by this study. There is a Web Design company here in San Antonio that recently started an SEO company because they like the idea of getting a monthly retainer with clients they can't get any regular money out of doing only web design. Their clients have later come into our offices and using SEOmoz tools like OSE we can see the types of links that they're building. Spam, Crap, Nonsense. They listed this company up on directories and did comment spam where the same copy paste text was being used for their client's website, as well as BDSM sex sites and penis enlargement pills. It was spam of the highest order and she'd had no idea that was what they were doing with her money. She was also nowhere to be found on Google, not even #1 for her own name. These guys are not ranking well here in town, but they spend a lot of money on sales people who do cold calling and convince these business owners to A) let them own their clients domain, B) setup a cheapo landing page that their client cannot access, and C) do super low quality link spam and call it SEO. But the clients don't know any better, so it all sounds great to them. I'm not trying to be negative here - this study highlights some of the best SEOs and that shows in that they rank well in their own cities - but it's not the people like Dave from Beanstalk who are giving the SEO industry a bad name - it's the people who are leveraging an enhanced visibility of SEO to sell directly to companies who don't know any better. Literal snake oil salesman are the problem with our industry. Every time a business owner gets burned by a shady SEO provider, their opinion is forever tarnished towards our industry. Ian Lurie said it right in his comment over at SERoundtable, "If I throw chum in the water, I get nothing but sharks. This wasn't a real test - it was link bait." SEOmoz did the exact opposite of what the Webmaster World folks did, sampling from a group much more likely to achieve the desired outcome in the end data. The sampling needs ALL SPECTRUMS of SEOs to provide data that we can draw conclusions from.
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 - Ashley Sefferman
 
 2012-09-25T12:21:39-07:00
 
 Thanks for the lengthy response, Matthew.
 
 The reason we used high-ranking SEOs is because that is how many businesses new to the SEO world find consultants. We tried to use queries similar to ones that would be used by a person running a website such as PEPS. To make it neutral, we used the same queries across all searches and reviewed all results. Nobody is here to say that there aren't people out there doing shady work, but after the study, we do think it is less of a problem overall than many people are lamenting.
 
 Not all SEOs are represented in this study, but it's a good representation of the SEOs that business owners in big cities who are researching SEO for the first time are likely to find. It's easy to focus on negative individual experiences as a false truth about a group of people, and our goal was to conduct a study to give us our own experience based on a company setup like PEPS. Our results were anything but negative, and that's what this post is about.
 
 Including SEOs that don't rank but do send outbound marketing is an interesting idea, and I agree that it would give us a more representative sample of varying qualities of SEO consulting. Perhaps it's something we can look at doing in the future.
 
 I understand and share your concerns about the presence of snake oil salespeople in the industry - if the intent of this post had been to discuss this problem, it would have looked pretty different. Really what we were trying to accomplish with this study is to see whether or not high-ranking SEO consultants across the country knew their stuff and were willing to share it (the "willing to share it" portion probably also weeded out some black-hats, as another commenter noted).
 
 AshleySefferman edited 2012-09-25T12:21:47-07:00
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 Thanks for the lengthy response, Matthew. The reason we used high-ranking SEOs is because that is how many businesses new to the SEO world find consultants. We tried to use queries similar to ones that would be used by a person running a website such as PEPS. To make it neutral, we used the same queries across all searches and reviewed all results. Nobody is here to say that there aren't people out there doing shady work, but after the study, we do think it is less of a problem overall than many people are lamenting. Not all SEOs are represented in this study, but it's a good representation of the SEOs that business owners in big cities who are researching SEO for the first time are likely to find. It's easy to focus on negative individual experiences as a false truth about a group of people, and our goal was to conduct a study to give us our own experience based on a company setup like PEPS. Our results were anything but negative, and that's what this post is about. Including SEOs that don't rank but do send outbound marketing is an interesting idea, and I agree that it would give us a more representative sample of varying qualities of SEO consulting. Perhaps it's something we can look at doing in the future. I understand and share your concerns about the presence of snake oil salespeople in the industry - if the intent of this post had been to discuss this problem, it would have looked pretty different. Really what we were trying to accomplish with this study is to see whether or not high-ranking SEO consultants across the country knew their stuff and were willing to share it (the "willing to share it" portion probably also weeded out some black-hats, as another commenter noted).
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 - Matthew Egan
 
 2012-09-25T12:37:04-07:00
 
 I hear you, but my comments come from the fact that your first three words are "as an industry" where in reality the sampling size is much smaller than the entire industry, but instead agencies ranking well locally.
 
 I was sitting with Rand at a meetup a couple years ago and he'd asked me if ranking well for "San Antonio SEO" brought us large clients, or small clients.
 
 He already knew the answer and of course, he was right that city specific SEO keywords tend to bring typically smaller "mom and pop" businesses and not the big non-profit organizations like PEPS.
 
 The majority of the larger work we've handled has come in through blogging, word-of-mouth from other agencies, designers, speaking gigs, and just folks who had worked with us on SEO before. We've gotten more business directly from writing YouMoz posts than we've ever gotten from ranking well locally. That's a fact.
 
 The team has even joked that when I write a good solid blog, I better be ready for the phone to ring, and they're right. It isn't usually the "[City Name] SEO" keywords that pay the bills, maybe 10-20% of our business comes from that.
 
 We haven't done any direct SEO for ourselvesin over 12 months, it's all just stuff we've gained unintentionally by blogging, guest blogging, doing stuff we do because it generates business, it's just coincidentally good SEO.
 
 My point is - the Webmaster World folks ran an Ad, that is how some people find SEOs, you used city specific search terms, that is how some other folks find SEOs, but as I've experienced in my three years of running an agency myself, the best opportunities for SEO consultants don't come from running ads or ranking well, but sheer power of offline relationships and a strong reputation for getting results.
 
 We're not the folks doing the damage "to the industry".
 
 MatthewEgan edited 2012-09-25T12:38:25-07:00
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 I hear you, but my comments come from the fact that your first three words are "as an industry" where in reality the sampling size is much smaller than the entire industry, but instead agencies ranking well locally. I was sitting with Rand at a meetup a couple years ago and he'd asked me if ranking well for "San Antonio SEO" brought us large clients, or small clients. He already knew the answer and of course, he was right that city specific SEO keywords tend to bring typically smaller "mom and pop" businesses and not the big non-profit organizations like PEPS. The majority of the larger work we've handled has come in through blogging, word-of-mouth from other agencies, designers, speaking gigs, and just folks who had worked with us on SEO before. We've gotten more business directly from writing YouMoz posts than we've ever gotten from ranking well locally. That's a fact. The team has even joked that when I write a good solid blog, I better be ready for the phone to ring, and they're right. It isn't usually the "[City Name] SEO" keywords that pay the bills, maybe 10-20% of our business comes from that. We haven't done any direct SEO for ourselvesin over 12 months, it's all just stuff we've gained unintentionally by blogging, guest blogging, doing stuff we do because it generates business, it's just coincidentally good SEO. My point is - the Webmaster World folks ran an Ad, that is how some people find SEOs, you used city specific search terms, that is how some other folks find SEOs, but as I've experienced in my three years of running an agency myself, the best opportunities for SEO consultants don't come from running ads or ranking well, but sheer power of offline relationships and a strong reputation for getting results. We're not the folks doing the damage "to the industry".
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 - Jeremy Webb
 
 2012-09-26T01:07:21-07:00
 
 Unfortunately I agree that there is selection bias here, although this was an admirable research project. You only need to go to a real world meet up of web folk to find a whole lot of misinformation being peddled by people who really believe it.
 
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 Unfortunately I agree that there is selection bias here, although this was an admirable research project. You only need to go to a real world meet up of web folk to find a whole lot of misinformation being peddled by people who really believe it. 
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 - Joe Robison
 
 2012-09-27T22:05:59-07:00
 
 I value you input and explanation a lot more here Ashley. I guess from the point of view of experts ranking well in the top results for search terms, this is an excellent survey. And it is really good to know that the top results aren't full of black hats and the like, which would do further harm. Still doesn't prevent the good mom and pops of the world from getting conned through outbound phone calls and ads and such, nor does it take them into account, but of course that's for the next survey!
 
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 I value you input and explanation a lot more here Ashley. I guess from the point of view of experts ranking well in the top results for search terms, this is an excellent survey. And it is really good to know that the top results aren't full of black hats and the like, which would do further harm. Still doesn't prevent the good mom and pops of the world from getting conned through outbound phone calls and ads and such, nor does it take them into account, but of course that's for the next survey!
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 - Joe Robison
 
 2012-09-25T12:23:00-07:00
 
 100% agree with this. Taking the top 5 organic results is absolute selection bias. I do applaud the work and it's interesting and good to see that good companies rank at the top, but instead of choosing the top 7 from 11 cities, take the top 50 from 2 or 3 cities and compare all of those.
 
 Going forward there needs to be some type of seal of approval or certification program run by SEOmoz or a collaboration between SEO thought leaders + the BBB + Google + some independent non-biased 3rd party organization and educate consumers on the meaning of the certifications and why they should trust it.
 
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 100% agree with this. Taking the top 5 organic results is absolute selection bias. I do applaud the work and it's interesting and good to see that good companies rank at the top, but instead of choosing the top 7 from 11 cities, take the top 50 from 2 or 3 cities and compare all of those. Going forward there needs to be some type of seal of approval or certification program run by SEOmoz or a collaboration between SEO thought leaders + the BBB + Google + some independent non-biased 3rd party organization and educate consumers on the meaning of the certifications and why they should trust it. 
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 - Brent Rangen
 
 2012-09-25T12:26:10-07:00
 
 Somebody has to get the ball rolling. If you focused on only perfection in the end result, you would never move past strategy & planning. At least we have identified people like Dave here, people who you can actually trust giving a referral to because in all honesty, I don't trust the majority of the people selling these services.
 
 Quite frankly, I'd prefer only seeing results for agencies that do enough to get noticed. It's not hard to get your business that far. Why even highlight the others or give them any citations on the web at all?
 
 Mr.Rangen edited 2012-09-25T12:30:36-07:00
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 Somebody has to get the ball rolling. If you focused on only perfection in the end result, you would never move past strategy & planning. At least we have identified people like Dave here, people who you can actually trust giving a referral to because in all honesty, I don't trust the majority of the people selling these services. Quite frankly, I'd prefer only seeing results for agencies that do enough to get noticed. It's not hard to get your business that far. Why even highlight the others or give them any citations on the web at all? 
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 - Anthony D. Nelson
 
 2012-09-25T12:36:20-07:00
 
 I agree with Matt's comment here. Ashley writes that using Search is how many companies find an SEO consultant. I'd agree with that for medium/large companies. Unfortunately, I bet a lot of small companies who truly have no idea what they are doing end up going with a web design firm who they already do work with or perhaps reply to one of the many spam SEO services emails we all get.
 
 That being said, I thoroughly enjoyed this post and am happy to see the most of the firms ranking well appear to be doing so through legitimate, long-term tactics.
 
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 I agree with Matt's comment here. Ashley writes that using Search is how many companies find an SEO consultant. I'd agree with that for medium/large companies. Unfortunately, I bet a lot of small companies who truly have no idea what they are doing end up going with a web design firm who they already do work with or perhaps reply to one of the many spam SEO services emails we all get. That being said, I thoroughly enjoyed this post and am happy to see the most of the firms ranking well appear to be doing so through legitimate, long-term tactics.
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 - Matthew Egan
 
 2012-09-25T12:45:57-07:00
 
 @Joe - Dave Ramsey, known for his financial books and radio show, has what he calls a "Endorsed Local Provider" and this is a program that only has a handful of types, so... realtor, insurance provider, investment banker, I think is the list. Companies pay in to be considered, and they do check into these companies to know what they are doing.
 
 SEOmoz could make a lot of money if they acted as a "referral source" or whatever, for connecting businesses with SEOs. Unfortunately, SEOmoz is well known to SEOs, not as well known to non-SEOs.
 
 @Anthony - That's ultimately my complaint with the piece, and I do feel terrible for what I'm sure looks like I'm ribbing Ashley about, but it's not those people who have "damaged our reputation" and that is what the stated purpose of the study is supposed to disprove, but there's more to it than that.
 
 The problems with our industry have nothing to do with those people who were questioned, but instead that web design firm you mentioned who do tack on SEO simply because it's one more thing they can charge for.
 
 That would be a pretty awesome study, how web design firms that claim they offer SEO respond to these same basic SEO questions.
 
 MatthewEgan edited 2012-09-25T12:46:12-07:00
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 @Joe - Dave Ramsey, known for his financial books and radio show, has what he calls a "Endorsed Local Provider" and this is a program that only has a handful of types, so... realtor, insurance provider, investment banker, I think is the list. Companies pay in to be considered, and they do check into these companies to know what they are doing. SEOmoz could make a lot of money if they acted as a "referral source" or whatever, for connecting businesses with SEOs. Unfortunately, SEOmoz is well known to SEOs, not as well known to non-SEOs. @Anthony - That's ultimately my complaint with the piece, and I do feel terrible for what I'm sure looks like I'm ribbing Ashley about, but it's not those people who have "damaged our reputation" and that is what the stated purpose of the study is supposed to disprove, but there's more to it than that. The problems with our industry have nothing to do with those people who were questioned, but instead that web design firm you mentioned who do tack on SEO simply because it's one more thing they can charge for. That would be a pretty awesome study, how web design firms that claim they offer SEO respond to these same basic SEO questions. 
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 - Danielle Ruderman
 
 2012-09-25T13:41:36-07:00
 
 I agree with Mr. Egan. Unfortunately some of our clients find their SEOs by answering those spammy emails they get from random "SEO consultants", or by using a friend of a friend or their neighbor's son who decided last week to become an SEO. They are looking for ways to save money, as always. And they actually believe some of the nutty claims these folks make about getting on page 1 in a nanosecond, etc.
 
 We spend a lot of time pushing back on oddball requests from these so-called consultants (we host websites for some clients who use outside SEOs). It would be great if everyone looked for the top consulting companies in a local search - but the reality is that many small business owners (our core clients) often fall prey to cold calls, emails or low price offers.
 
 The real challenge for us as a website development company is how to educate our clients so they don't take bad advice or get suckered into deals with shady firms. Believe me - there are PLENTY of bad SEOs out there...so many that we're considering partnering with some SEO firms around the country so we can recommend their services to our clients. This will, we hope, avoid the problems caused when our clients bring an SEO on board who does not know what he or she is doing. If anyone has thoughts on how to best do this, I'm all ears :-)
 
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 I agree with Mr. Egan. Unfortunately some of our clients find their SEOs by answering those spammy emails they get from random "SEO consultants", or by using a friend of a friend or their neighbor's son who decided last week to become an SEO. They are looking for ways to save money, as always. And they actually believe some of the nutty claims these folks make about getting on page 1 in a nanosecond, etc. We spend a lot of time pushing back on oddball requests from these so-called consultants (we host websites for some clients who use outside SEOs). It would be great if everyone looked for the top consulting companies in a local search - but the reality is that many small business owners (our core clients) often fall prey to cold calls, emails or low price offers. The real challenge for us as a website development company is how to educate our clients so they don't take bad advice or get suckered into deals with shady firms. Believe me - there are PLENTY of bad SEOs out there...so many that we're considering partnering with some SEO firms around the country so we can recommend their services to our clients. This will, we hope, avoid the problems caused when our clients bring an SEO on board who does not know what he or she is doing. If anyone has thoughts on how to best do this, I'm all ears :-)
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 - Matthew Egan
 
 2012-09-25T14:21:41-07:00
 
 You're the exception, as far as web development folks go, where the attraction is of course to the monthly retainer that most SEOs enjoy. Web Designers don't have that, and they want it, so if you "follow the money" you'll find designers doing the bare minimum, or worse, to provide what the customer asked for.
 
 I think your idea if a fantastic one and it's an example of leveraging external expertise to still provide the client with optimum service while all parties involved profit financially. Win win!
 
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 You're the exception, as far as web development folks go, where the attraction is of course to the monthly retainer that most SEOs enjoy. Web Designers don't have that, and they want it, so if you "follow the money" you'll find designers doing the bare minimum, or worse, to provide what the customer asked for. I think your idea if a fantastic one and it's an example of leveraging external expertise to still provide the client with optimum service while all parties involved profit financially. Win win!
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 - Dr. Peter J. Meyers
 
 2012-09-25T13:57:18-07:00
 
 The original WMW piece that sparked this (in part) also used a biased sample - self-selected respondents to an ad. I'd say this methodology was less biased, if imperfect. If nothing else, I think this study shows that those original conclusions are questionable and may have over-emphasized a small set of "bad" SEOs.
 
 I also think we have a tendency to see the bad in our own industry in very self-serving ways. In other words, "Look how everyone else sucks!" is too often a ploy for self-promotion. That's as damaging to the industry as the people who actually do lousy work, IMO. This is just another perspective, demonstrating that the picture is more complicated than we sometimes like to make it.
 
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 The original WMW piece that sparked this (in part) also used a biased sample - self-selected respondents to an ad. I'd say this methodology was less biased, if imperfect. If nothing else, I think this study shows that those original conclusions are questionable and may have over-emphasized a small set of "bad" SEOs. I also think we have a tendency to see the bad in our own industry in very self-serving ways. In other words, "Look how everyone else sucks!" is too often a ploy for self-promotion. That's as damaging to the industry as the people who actually do lousy work, IMO. This is just another perspective, demonstrating that the picture is more complicated than we sometimes like to make it.
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 - Ashley Sefferman
 
 2012-09-25T14:07:58-07:00
 
 Thanks for the insight, Dr. Pete. When we created the initial project design, we wanted to get as close to the original study as possible through a more comprehensive, un-biased strategy. We agreed that the metrics and benchmarks used would be the best way to help test our hypothesis, and the study began. While there are a wide assortment of steps that could have been taken to lead us to similar (or different) conclusions, we stand behind the data and its conclusions.
 
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 Thanks for the insight, Dr. Pete. When we created the initial project design, we wanted to get as close to the original study as possible through a more comprehensive, un-biased strategy. We agreed that the metrics and benchmarks used would be the best way to help test our hypothesis, and the study began. While there are a wide assortment of steps that could have been taken to lead us to similar (or different) conclusions, we stand behind the data and its conclusions. 
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 - David Veldt
 
 2012-09-26T06:21:52-07:00
 
 First, I applaud you and your team for the work required to put this together. There's been a lot of great points made in the comments, and I'm inclined to agree with most of them.
 
 I do feel like this is only a small part of the story. As someone pointed out, less than half of the sample size even gave a full response. Only only half of that number (or, more than 14) "provided ethically sound answers for all four questions." I'd hardly say that's a "true indicator of an industry with ethically-driven motivations from the majority."
 
 While I agree that most uneducated companies in the research phase would indeed turn to Google, I think it is only one of the places you should have drawn your samples from.
 
 Lastly, I think most would agree that a big reason you got decent responses was because you were the ones making the initial contact. A huge problem are the SEOs sending out unsolicited offers and free "analysis," or even those that have a sales team on staff making calls. In my experience, its those emails that contain some of the most shady advice and questionable offers. In fact, I'd hypothesize that it's these types of emails that lead people in the majority to the negative view they may have about our industry. I get as many SEO "offers" as I do emails from Nigerian princes and cheap meds companies.
 
 David_Veldt edited 2012-09-26T06:22:00-07:00
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 First, I applaud you and your team for the work required to put this together. There's been a lot of great points made in the comments, and I'm inclined to agree with most of them. I do feel like this is only a small part of the story. As someone pointed out, less than half of the sample size even gave a full response. Only only half of that number (or, more than 14) "provided ethically sound answers for all four questions." I'd hardly say that's a "true indicator of an industry with ethically-driven motivations from the majority." While I agree that most uneducated companies in the research phase would indeed turn to Google, I think it is only one of the places you should have drawn your samples from. Lastly, I think most would agree that a big reason you got decent responses was because you were the ones making the initial contact. A huge problem are the SEOs sending out unsolicited offers and free "analysis," or even those that have a sales team on staff making calls. In my experience, its those emails that contain some of the most shady advice and questionable offers. In fact, I'd hypothesize that it's these types of emails that lead people in the majority to the negative view they may have about our industry. I get as many SEO "offers" as I do emails from Nigerian princes and cheap meds companies. 
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 - eyepaq
 
 2012-09-26T06:27:45-07:00
 
 There is always room for a follow-up article or even more. Then if you will compare the data with the first set or sets based on the sample used in each there will be a pretty good picture staring to show up.
 
 The next episode will be nice to feature some companies that are not there - in top 50.. or 100. or that are not even indexed / listed.
 
 You can leave iAquaire out of the list though :) It will be hard to assign it to any of the sets :D
 
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 There is always room for a follow-up article or even more. Then if you will compare the data with the first set or sets based on the sample used in each there will be a pretty good picture staring to show up. The next episode will be nice to feature some companies that are not there - in top 50.. or 100. or that are not even indexed / listed. You can leave iAquaire out of the list though :) It will be hard to assign it to any of the sets :D
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- cnoble
 
 2012-09-25T20:11:21-07:00
 
 Rand, I don't know that this is really a strong case study to point to in order to prove that agencies are NOT doing unethical or blackhat stuff. Over half of the chosen agencies declined! Perhaps these are the agencies who may have tipped their hat if it was, say a mortgage site, a dentist, or attorney requesting help rather than a non-profit. Perhaps the "unethical" agencies aren't working much with reputable non-profits right?
 
 And out of 86 total selected agencies there were only 6% who answered as you would expect?! That seems like it shines light on a problem.
 
 Also, why was Salt Lake not included? We were the site of the first Mozcation thanks, in part, to our healthy SEO industry and being home to several great agencies! Anyway, loved reading the data and the answers.
 
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 Rand, I don't know that this is really a strong case study to point to in order to prove that agencies are NOT doing unethical or blackhat stuff. Over half of the chosen agencies declined! Perhaps these are the agencies who may have tipped their hat if it was, say a mortgage site, a dentist, or attorney requesting help rather than a non-profit. Perhaps the "unethical" agencies aren't working much with reputable non-profits right? And out of 86 total selected agencies there were only 6% who answered as you would expect?! That seems like it shines light on a problem. Also, why was Salt Lake not included? We were the site of the first Mozcation thanks, in part, to our healthy SEO industry and being home to several great agencies! Anyway, loved reading the data and the answers. 
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 - jennita
 
 2012-09-26T15:46:51-07:00
 
 Hi, we didn't pick the cities based on where we've traveled before. Per Ruth Burr in a comment below:
 "We wanted to select a mixture of large and medium-sized cities, so we compiled a list of top cities by population and then a second list of top cities by population with populations under 500K. Then we used Google Insights for Search to narrow the lists down to cities that actually have at least some search volume for the given keywords."
 
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 Hi, we didn't pick the cities based on where we've traveled before. Per Ruth Burr in a comment below: "We wanted to select a mixture of large and medium-sized cities, so we compiled a list of top cities by population and then a second list of top cities by population with populations under 500K. Then we used Google Insights for Search to narrow the lists down to cities that actually have at least some search volume for the given keywords."
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- SEODinosaur
 
 2012-09-27T10:48:54-07:00
 
 Dave's answers are great and i'm not trying to take away any credit..
 However, his site? made me "hmmm"
 
 I was always under the impression that no one can guarantee anything in SEO because no one owns search engines...
 
 https://www.beanstalk-inc.com/services/guaranteed.htm
 
 What's Included In Our Guaranteed SEO Services?
 - review and assessment of targeted keywords
 - review and optimization of site structure to insure spiderability and increased content priority
 - optimization of titles and meta tags
 - optimization of content advanced link building
 - manual search engine submissions
 - monthly review and report on rankings across the major search engines
 Price: Ranging From $3,995
 
 Click here to order our guaranteed SEO Services.
 
 (Simply type guarantees in the SEOmoz search: https://www.seomoz.org/pages/search_results?q=guarentees)
 
 Also, can someone please define consultant for me? I thought SEO consultant(s) teach a company what to do. I may be wrong here but this company appears to me to be a take your project/money and do all the work.
 
 SEODinosaur edited 2012-09-27T11:05:11-07:00
 2 0
 Dave's answers are great and i'm not trying to take away any credit.. However, his site? made me "hmmm" I was always under the impression that no one can guarantee anything in SEO because no one owns search engines... https://www.beanstalk-inc.com/services/guaranteed.htm What's Included In Our Guaranteed SEO Services? <ul><li>review and assessment of targeted keywords </li><li>review and optimization of site structure to insure spiderability and increased content priority </li><li>optimization of titles and meta tags </li><li>optimization of content advanced link building </li><li>manual search engine submissions </li><li>monthly review and report on rankings across the major search engines</li></ul> Price: Ranging From $3,995 Click here to order our guaranteed SEO Services. (Simply type guarantees in the SEOmoz search: https://www.seomoz.org/pages/search_results?q=guarentees) Also, can someone please define consultant for me? I thought SEO consultant(s) teach a company what to do. I may be wrong here but this company appears to me to be a take your project/money and do all the work. 
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 - Dave Davies
 
 2012-09-27T12:03:53-07:00
 
 It is definitely an area of discussion among SEO's. I've opted to offer one since 2004 and it's worked out pretty well but I don't begrudge SEO's who don't - there are many talented ones in that pool.
 
 I should note that the guaranteed format also only works for a specific type of campaign (i.e. one in which only a small set of keywords will generate revenue). The format doesn't work at all well for large ecommerce sites, etc. where the focus isn't on rankings for a specific few phrases but rather should be placed on acquiring a large number of targeted visitors from hundred or even thousands of different phrase (products, locations, etc.).
 And re: consultant - To me (and others might skew the definition differently) when I'm acting as a consultant I view my job as to outline clearly what needs to be done and how to do it but not the actual implementation. That's my version anyways. :)
 
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 It is definitely an area of discussion among SEO's. I've opted to offer one since 2004 and it's worked out pretty well but I don't begrudge SEO's who don't - there are many talented ones in that pool. I should note that the guaranteed format also only works for a specific type of campaign (i.e. one in which only a small set of keywords will generate revenue). The format doesn't work at all well for large ecommerce sites, etc. where the focus isn't on rankings for a specific few phrases but rather should be placed on acquiring a large number of targeted visitors from hundred or even thousands of different phrase (products, locations, etc.). And re: consultant - To me (and others might skew the definition differently) when I'm acting as a consultant I view my job as to outline clearly what needs to be done and how to do it but not the actual implementation. That's my version anyways. :)
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- SEODinosaur
 
 2012-09-27T14:33:42-07:00
 
 It's funny but we have done vary similar testing. We contacted the top companies for many keywords and acted as if we're interested in a quote.
 What did we find:
 Most SEO companies lie or are simply not knowledgeable enough. They told us broad numbers for our chosen keywords instead of [exact], they "guaranteed" placement and they did not give us the answers that would get us placement. IMO SEO companies for the most part are not to be trusted. Hopefully the great work that is done here on SEOmoz will help change that.
 
 SEODinosaur edited 2012-09-27T14:35:07-07:00
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 It's funny but we have done vary similar testing. We contacted the top companies for many keywords and acted as if we're interested in a quote. What did we find: Most SEO companies lie or are simply not knowledgeable enough. They told us broad numbers for our chosen keywords instead of [exact], they "guaranteed" placement and they did not give us the answers that would get us placement. IMO SEO companies for the most part are not to be trusted. Hopefully the great work that is done here on SEOmoz will help change that.
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 - Dave Davies
 
 2012-09-27T14:41:59-07:00
 
 You've touched on one of my biggest pet peeves.
 I've had prospective clients contact me and tell me I'm wrong and search volumes are WAY higher than I told them because they got another quote. Take a peek and wouldn't you know it, now I have the fun task of explaining Broad Match vs Exact Match and why broad can yield helpful data - but exact match contains the number to use if you want to know the search volume for a specific phrase.
 
 Like you, I'm not sure if they're lying which would really be horrible given that that lie is basically built when the real numbers don't stand up and you know the client is about to lose money - even if you get them the rankings ... or they could just not know what they're talking about which I suppose is better from a "you're not an ethically bankrupt business person" perspective but is almost as bad from a "please don't call yourself an SEO" angle.
 
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 You've touched on one of my biggest pet peeves. I've had prospective clients contact me and tell me I'm wrong and search volumes are WAY higher than I told them because they got another quote. Take a peek and wouldn't you know it, now I have the fun task of explaining Broad Match vs Exact Match and why broad can yield helpful data - but exact match contains the number to use if you want to know the search volume for a specific phrase. Like you, I'm not sure if they're lying which would really be horrible given that that lie is basically built when the real numbers don't stand up and you know the client is about to lose money - even if you get them the rankings ... or they could just not know what they're talking about which I suppose is better from a "you're not an ethically bankrupt business person" perspective but is almost as bad from a "please don't call yourself an SEO" angle.
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 - Matt Janaway
 
 2012-10-09T08:40:09-07:00
 
 Very very scary!! It must be a lie, surely? I cant imagine anyone working with search engines wouldn't know the difference between broad and exact - but then again, nothing ever surprises me in this industry.
 I get so many questions, usually daily, from so-called "SEO Specialists" who are asking questions that they really should know. Not only should they know but they should NOT be offering an SEO service without knowing the answers to the questions they are asking!
 Just take a peek at the Q&A and there are many questions from supposed SEO's asking about stuff they really should know about.
 
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 Very very scary!! It must be a lie, surely? I cant imagine anyone working with search engines wouldn't know the difference between broad and exact - but then again, nothing ever surprises me in this industry. I get so many questions, usually daily, from so-called "SEO Specialists" who are asking questions that they really should know. Not only should they know but they should NOT be offering an SEO service without knowing the answers to the questions they are asking! Just take a peek at the Q&A and there are many questions from supposed SEO's asking about stuff they really should know about.
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 - Dave Davies
 
 2012-10-09T08:50:43-07:00
 
 Sometimes I think it's lack of knowledge, sometimes I think it's a function of SEO's wanting to show higher-that-real search volumes to justify a campaign.
 
 You're right - either is very very scary.
 
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 Sometimes I think it's lack of knowledge, sometimes I think it's a function of SEO's wanting to show higher-that-real search volumes to justify a campaign. You're right - either is very very scary. 
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Associate

JonoAlderson
Associate

2012-09-25T11:49:08-07:00

I'm not convinced that using organisations who rank well for SEO firm [location] or similar are going to be highly representative of the industry as a whole; it's pretty much a given, surely, that SEO firms whose primary funnel is optimising their own presences around SEO terms are going to have a business model based on low- to mid-level packaged services, surely?

I'd be interested in understanding the behaviour of the SME / client behaviour in terms of seeking out SEO firms... How much is driven by word of mouth, where packaged services are perceived to have worked (anyone can take a site that's generating 100 visits, and get it to 200, right, for a whopping 100% increase) and how much does this perpetuate and reinforce bad behaviour? How many actually Google 'SEO firm' and shop with the obviously off-the-shelf stuff?

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I'm not convinced that using organisations who rank well for SEO firm [location] or similar are going to be highly representative of the industry as a whole; it's pretty much a given, surely, that SEO firms whose primary funnel is optimising their own presences around SEO terms are going to have a business model based on low- to mid-level packaged services, surely? I'd be interested in understanding the behaviour of the SME / client behaviour in terms of seeking out SEO firms... How much is driven by word of mouth, where packaged services are perceived to have worked (anyone can take a site that's generating 100 visits, and get it to 200, right, for a whopping 100% increase) and how much does this perpetuate and reinforce bad behaviour? How many actually Google 'SEO firm' and shop with the obviously off-the-shelf stuff?
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- Danielle Ruderman
 
 2012-09-25T13:55:27-07:00
 
 This is true... I'd be curious to see an experiment where website owners go find SEO consultants themselves. It would be interesting to see how they go about looking for SEO help... what searches they do, what makes them pick one company over another... what factors influence their final choice.
 
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 This is true... I'd be curious to see an experiment where website owners go find SEO consultants themselves. It would be interesting to see how they go about looking for SEO help... what searches they do, what makes them pick one company over another... what factors influence their final choice.
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Christian Greiner

2012-09-25T11:57:23-07:00

I'm glad you received some sound advice, but I'd expect nothing less from someone who took the time to respond to those inquiries thoroughly.

To be honest, I'd be more interested in hearing the "SEO advice" of the "I do not provide free consulting" crowd. I think they're the ones who would give you the real gems.

greinerseo edited 2012-09-25T12:07:20-07:00
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I'm glad you received some sound advice, but I'd expect nothing less from someone who took the time to respond to those inquiries thoroughly. To be honest, I'd be more interested in hearing the "SEO advice" of the "I do not provide free consulting" crowd. I think they're the ones who would give you the real gems. 
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Globalme

2012-09-25T11:29:19-07:00

I cannot believe more than 60% refused to respond to four relatively common questions without compensation. I always found that the more detailed information I provide in response to a website inquiry, the easier it is to convert the lead to a client. Great study...

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I cannot believe more than 60% refused to respond to four relatively common questions without compensation. I always found that the more detailed information I provide in response to a website inquiry, the easier it is to convert the lead to a client. Great study...
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- Dr. Peter J. Meyers
 
 2012-09-25T12:01:56-07:00
 
 To be fair, there comes a point where you just can't. As an independent consultant, I try to reply to everyone, but if I get 2-3 leads in a day, I can't spend an hour on each one, especially when it's clear they would all be an unlikely fit (and I'm hearing this from more SEOs daily). I don't think we can draw many conclusions about the 60% that didn't answer.
 
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 To be fair, there comes a point where you just can't. As an independent consultant, I try to reply to everyone, but if I get 2-3 leads in a day, I can't spend an hour on each one, especially when it's clear they would all be an unlikely fit (and I'm hearing this from more SEOs daily). I don't think we can draw many conclusions about the 60% that didn't answer.
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 - Joe Hall
 
 2012-09-25T13:00:55-07:00
 
 I 1000% agree with this statement.
 
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 I 1000% agree with this statement. 
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 - JulieJoyce
 
 2012-09-25T13:54:53-07:00
 
 I agree with you guys although my doing so adds zero to the conversation.
 
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 I agree with you guys although my doing so adds zero to the conversation.
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 - morimoto hideo
 
 2013-05-23T18:47:09-07:00
 
 I love your reply Julie, which also adds zero to the thread ;-)
 
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 I love your reply Julie, which also adds zero to the thread ;-)
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 - Kristi Davis
 
 2012-09-25T13:40:25-07:00
 
 I also agree, Dr. Pete! I read the whole article thinking what were these people THINKING about, sending those types of detailed comments to an unknown entity with no phone call, no guarantee of business. A complete hour wasted, how do they value their time?
 
 On the other hand you had 3 smart people googling a name, tying it to SEOmoz, and then taking a lot of valuable time to answer. That sounds like a super smart person.
 
 Great blog post though. Good try and it was interesting seeing the responses.
 
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 I also agree, Dr. Pete! I read the whole article thinking what were these people THINKING about, sending those types of detailed comments to an unknown entity with no phone call, no guarantee of business. A complete hour wasted, how do they value their time? On the other hand you had 3 smart people googling a name, tying it to SEOmoz, and then taking a lot of valuable time to answer. That sounds like a super smart person. Great blog post though. Good try and it was interesting seeing the responses. 
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 - bluehorseradish
 
 2012-09-25T21:44:14-07:00
 
 @KristiBug, Yes, at Blue Horseradish, we had some fun figuring out that SEOmoz was behind this. We had a few amusing exchanges with Kurtis in the process.
 
 Agree with Dr. Pete, it makes good business sense to check out potential clients, to make sure it's a good fit for both sides.
 
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 @KristiBug, Yes, at Blue Horseradish, we had some fun figuring out that SEOmoz was behind this. We had a few amusing exchanges with Kurtis in the process. Agree with Dr. Pete, it makes good business sense to check out potential clients, to make sure it's a good fit for both sides. 
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 - Simon Gough
 
 2012-09-26T02:10:08-07:00
 
 Well spotted guys! I would agree that if you're considering spending an hour crafting a decent response to a lead email, it makes sense to research the client to make sure it will be an hour well spent.
 
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 Well spotted guys! I would agree that if you're considering spending an hour crafting a decent response to a lead email, it makes sense to research the client to make sure it will be an hour well spent. 
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 - Globalme
 
 2012-09-26T12:13:48-07:00
 
 Lets not forget that the request comes from peps.org which tells a lot about the entity. I agree that it would not be wise to spend an hour on a random request but this looks far from random to me.
 
 Even though the request that you reply to may not turn in to actual work, this is a great way to create a relation with this "potential" client.
 
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 Lets not forget that the request comes from peps.org which tells a lot about the entity. I agree that it would not be wise to spend an hour on a random request but this looks far from random to me. Even though the request that you reply to may not turn in to actual work, this is a great way to create a relation with this "potential" client.
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 - Dave Davies
 
 2012-09-27T09:35:04-07:00
 
 I respond to all I can and am as thorough as I can be and *shocking* it works pretty well.
 
 The interesting this is that giving solid answers will provide one of two situation:
 1 - an educated client who understands that what you do is difficult, requires years of education, and that you're worth what you charge because of this ... or,2 - the client will run of and try to do it themselves or higher someone who'll "submit their site to 8 gazillion directories for $19.95".
 If the first happens, you got a better client, if the latter - you've avoided a client who would have been a nightmare to work with to begin with.
 Personally, I view that time spent as a natural filtering system that insures that the clients we do get are the ones we want and they understand the what and why of what we're going to do.
 And sometimes (just sometimes) it's nice to help people out ... make sure that even if they don't choose you ... they make an educated decision.
 
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 I respond to all I can and am as thorough as I can be and *shocking* it works pretty well. The interesting this is that giving solid answers will provide one of two situation: 1 - an educated client who understands that what you do is difficult, requires years of education, and that you're worth what you charge because of this ... or,2 - the client will run of and try to do it themselves or higher someone who'll "submit their site to 8 gazillion directories for $19.95". If the first happens, you got a better client, if the latter - you've avoided a client who would have been a nightmare to work with to begin with. Personally, I view that time spent as a natural filtering system that insures that the clients we do get are the ones we want and they understand the what and why of what we're going to do. And sometimes (just sometimes) it's nice to help people out ... make sure that even if they don't choose you ... they make an educated decision.
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 - Andrew McGarry
 
 2012-09-27T10:26:29-07:00
 
 >I think there's still far too much over-promising in this industry
 Glad someone with authority pointed this out!
 
 Depending on how busy I am you could get a 5 line email or a full report, and if you're at an agency where you have to justify every hour through time management software - good luck trying to help people without getting it in the neck from account managers.
 
 Personally, it's sales people I see over-promising. Any half decent SEO knows to under promise and over deliver. With all the algo updates and insanely competitive niches, it gives you a realistic shot at success.
 
 AndrewMcGarry edited 2012-09-27T10:26:50-07:00
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 >I think there's still far too much over-promising in this industry Glad someone with authority pointed this out! Depending on how busy I am you could get a 5 line email or a full report, and if you're at an agency where you have to justify every hour through time management software - good luck trying to help people without getting it in the neck from account managers. Personally, it's sales people I see over-promising. Any half decent SEO knows to under promise and over deliver. With all the algo updates and insanely competitive niches, it gives you a realistic shot at success. 
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 - SEODinosaur
 
 2012-09-27T13:52:03-07:00
 
 @Dr.Pete would this not be the best time to expand? When supply is higher then demand...
 
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 @Dr.Pete would this not be the best time to expand? When supply is higher then demand...
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 - Dr. Peter J. Meyers
 
 2012-09-27T13:56:39-07:00
 
 Sure, if expansion was my goal, but I'm not looking to build another company. Granted, others are (and that's fine). I would argue, though, that you still have to be selective - I think it's often better for both sides to quickly determine if a client is a good fit, and either move forward or move on. When I move on, I do try to provide referrals or some form of help (I don't want it to sound like I just blow people off). I just think that there comes a point where you can't give absolutely every lead equal and in-depth attention. If you don't prioritize, priorities have a way of being created for you.
 
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 Sure, if expansion was my goal, but I'm not looking to build another company. Granted, others are (and that's fine). I would argue, though, that you still have to be selective - I think it's often better for both sides to quickly determine if a client is a good fit, and either move forward or move on. When I move on, I do try to provide referrals or some form of help (I don't want it to sound like I just blow people off). I just think that there comes a point where you can't give absolutely every lead equal and in-depth attention. If you don't prioritize, priorities have a way of being created for you.
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 - SEODinosaur
 
 2012-09-27T14:18:21-07:00
 
 I agree. However, I feel that no response from 60% of these companies in itself give SEO's a bad name. As you stated "When I move on, I do try to provide referrals or some form of help (I don't want it to sound like I just blow people off)" which is exactly what a reputable company should do.
 
 There are many companies out there and 60% of the top ranking sites are too busy or simply not a good fit they should still respond. IMO if the potential (even not potential) client took the time to request a quote, the company should take the time to answer it. Would you consider no response proper business etiquette?
 
 Lets look at it from the other perspective. Would you want to do business with any of the 60% that did not respond? If they don't have the decency to respond to someone that's not a good fit, I wonder how they treat their customers.
 
 
 
 SEODinosaur edited 2012-09-27T14:18:52-07:00
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 I agree. However, I feel that no response from 60% of these companies in itself give SEO's a bad name. As you stated "When I move on, I do try to provide referrals or some form of help (I don't want it to sound like I just blow people off)" which is exactly what a reputable company should do. There are many companies out there and 60% of the top ranking sites are too busy or simply not a good fit they should still respond. IMO if the potential (even not potential) client took the time to request a quote, the company should take the time to answer it. Would you consider no response proper business etiquette? Lets look at it from the other perspective. Would you want to do business with any of the 60% that did not respond? If they don't have the decency to respond to someone that's not a good fit, I wonder how they treat their customers. 
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creybot

2012-09-25T11:16:30-07:00

Great article - it's nice to see what "random" SEOs are thinking. Helps me gauge where I'm at, too.

My thoughts on the current state of SEO? For small businesses, I think it's Thunderdome. The two most common types of responses I get whenever we broach the subject of SEO is either that of complete distrust, or complete confusion that leads to the client throwing their arms up.

I think there's still far too much over-promising in this industry, with SEOs hiding behind the "mystery" of Google's algorithm as a defense against getting any results.

I'd like to see a continued push on generating solid, original content first. I think a lot of people just want to try and build on what they have, but so much of what they have is garbage.

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Great article - it's nice to see what "random" SEOs are thinking. Helps me gauge where I'm at, too. My thoughts on the current state of SEO? For small businesses, I think it's Thunderdome. The two most common types of responses I get whenever we broach the subject of SEO is either that of complete distrust, or complete confusion that leads to the client throwing their arms up. I think there's still far too much over-promising in this industry, with SEOs hiding behind the "mystery" of Google's algorithm as a defense against getting any results. I'd like to see a continued push on generating solid, original content first. I think a lot of people just want to try and build on what they have, but so much of what they have is garbage. 
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- David O'Donnell
 
 2012-09-25T19:42:28-07:00
 
 "I think there's still far too much over-promising in this industry, with SEOs hiding behind the "mystery" of Google's algorithm as a defense against getting any results."
 
 Agreed, however I think this ends up backfiring when companies cancel SEO contracts because they don't and can't understand the value of the service. It's always been a priority of mine to educate (continually) the client so that they know and understand the value of what they are paying for.
 
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 "I think there's still far too much over-promising in this industry, with SEOs hiding behind the "mystery" of Google's algorithm as a defense against getting any results." Agreed, however I think this ends up backfiring when companies cancel SEO contracts because they don't and can't understand the value of the service. It's always been a priority of mine to educate (continually) the client so that they know and understand the value of what they are paying for. 
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Brent Rangen

2012-09-25T11:06:12-07:00

Congrats Dave! Well deserved! Before referring past clients out I analyzed Beanstalk's footprint online, it was immediately clear to me that they do practice what they preach. It's a lot of hard work, contributing quality to authority sites and at the heart of it, a very nice fella.

Mr.Rangen edited 2012-09-25T11:12:47-07:00
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Congrats Dave! Well deserved! Before referring past clients out I analyzed Beanstalk's footprint online, it was immediately clear to me that they do practice what they preach. It's a lot of hard work, contributing quality to authority sites and at the heart of it, a very nice fella. 
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- Dave Davies
 
 2012-09-25T13:46:15-07:00
 
 Thanks for the Hat Tip Mr. Rangen. :)
 
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 Thanks for the Hat Tip Mr. Rangen. :) 
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 - Kevin McLeod
 
 2012-09-25T14:01:59-07:00
 
 Right on! Good to see a Canadian company getting a nod here. Well done Beanstock!
 
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 Right on! Good to see a Canadian company getting a nod here. Well done Beanstock!
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 - NakulGoyal
 
 2012-09-26T12:33:41-07:00
 
 I have noticed you guys for several years now, I completely agree with Mr. Rangen. Keep it up Beanstalk.
 
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 I have noticed you guys for several years now, I completely agree with Mr. Rangen. Keep it up Beanstalk.
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John Cashman

2012-09-25T11:40:05-07:00

SO CLOSE! Congrats to Dave and Beanstalk SEO!

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SO CLOSE! Congrats to Dave and Beanstalk SEO!
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- Dave Davies
 
 2012-10-16T12:16:49-07:00
 
 Thanks :D
 
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 Thanks :D 
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Marie Haynes

2012-09-25T12:23:22-07:00

This was very interesting. I'd love to see the same test run on SEO companies that do not rank well. I think this study is biased because SEO companies that advocate the type of linkbuilding tactics that would get sites penalized probably got penalized themselves and don't rank well themselves. The only sites that are going to rank well for "SEO company" are ones that really know what they are doing. (And that is great by the way!)

If a website owner is searching for an SEO in their city and does a Google search they will likely come across someone who knows what they are doing. But, what about the businesses that get cold called and solicited by phone? I believe that many of these so called SEOs are the dangerous ones.

Now we just need to educate business owners on how to choose a good SEO.

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This was very interesting. I'd love to see the same test run on SEO companies that do not rank well. I think this study is biased because SEO companies that advocate the type of linkbuilding tactics that would get sites penalized probably got penalized themselves and don't rank well themselves. The only sites that are going to rank well for "SEO company" are ones that really know what they are doing. (And that is great by the way!) If a website owner is searching for an SEO in their city and does a Google search they will likely come across someone who knows what they are doing. But, what about the businesses that get cold called and solicited by phone? I believe that many of these so called SEOs are the dangerous ones. Now we just need to educate business owners on how to choose a good SEO.
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Joe Knapp

2012-09-25T21:38:19-07:00

This is an interesting study however, the research is severely flawed. To pick a handful of people to test, and to think somehow it represents the whole industry, is severely flawed.

I could pick a select sample, that will produce a very negative result. If I go on the freelance sites in pick 100 SEO's from there, I am pretty sure the answers of these questions will be appalling. I'm not knocking the freelance sites. I think the freelance sites are very good. But people have to be selective in their hiring. I suspect many small businesses (the bulk of business in American small business) use those freelance sites.

You are assuming that people use search to find an SEO. As others have mentioned that may be a flawed assumption. Some research into how SEO's get new clients may be necessary.

You also assume that people will spend the time and answer those questions for free. We get many people every month asking for free advice. Sometimes we give it, sometimes we don't. It depends on our work load. But I think it's a flawed assumption to assume that you're going to get accurate advice when you're not paying for it.

In order to be successful in SEO and marketing requires very good research skills and methods. I'm surprised at the research methods used here.

I am sorry that I cannot agree with the conclusions from this research. It is possible that the industry on a whole produces many white hat's. But there's no way we really will find that out until we do the research properly.

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This is an interesting study however, the research is severely flawed. To pick a handful of people to test, and to think somehow it represents the whole industry, is severely flawed. I could pick a select sample, that will produce a very negative result. If I go on the freelance sites in pick 100 SEO's from there, I am pretty sure the answers of these questions will be appalling. I'm not knocking the freelance sites. I think the freelance sites are very good. But people have to be selective in their hiring. I suspect many small businesses (the bulk of business in American small business) use those freelance sites. You are assuming that people use search to find an SEO. As others have mentioned that may be a flawed assumption. Some research into how SEO's get new clients may be necessary. You also assume that people will spend the time and answer those questions for free. We get many people every month asking for free advice. Sometimes we give it, sometimes we don't. It depends on our work load. But I think it's a flawed assumption to assume that you're going to get accurate advice when you're not paying for it. In order to be successful in SEO and marketing requires very good research skills and methods. I'm surprised at the research methods used here. I am sorry that I cannot agree with the conclusions from this research. It is possible that the industry on a whole produces many white hat's. But there's no way we really will find that out until we do the research properly. 
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- CMC-SD
 
 2012-09-26T08:28:52-07:00
 
 I agree. It's nice to be reminded that there are still ethical, friendly, helpful SEO firms out there ... but we already knew that. This says absolutely nothing about the overall state of the industry.
 
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 I agree. It's nice to be reminded that there are still ethical, friendly, helpful SEO firms out there ... but we already knew that. This says absolutely nothing about the overall state of the industry. 
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- Dave Davies
 
 2012-09-27T09:49:05-07:00
 
 To the point of the questions, just want to note that the questions all seemed fairly reasonable to a prospective client to be asking. I think every SEO has had to say, "I can't answer that without a commitment" but generally that's when a client is asking for a full breakdown of everything you'll be doing to a level where the research would be in the field of a full analysis.
 In this case, all the questions seemed reasonable and more geared to "I want to know if you know what you're talking about before we consider hiring you." So I answered them. :)
 
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 To the point of the questions, just want to note that the questions all seemed fairly reasonable to a prospective client to be asking. I think every SEO has had to say, "I can't answer that without a commitment" but generally that's when a client is asking for a full breakdown of everything you'll be doing to a level where the research would be in the field of a full analysis. In this case, all the questions seemed reasonable and more geared to "I want to know if you know what you're talking about before we consider hiring you." So I answered them. :)
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Luke McGrath

2012-09-28T04:59:48-07:00

Really good work, I favourited this on Twitter when it came out but sadly had a car accident earlier in the week - I've been hoping it would be a good return to work read and you didn't disappoint!

I'd love to see a study of just paid results - I wonder whether its the people who spend the most for rankings, rather than do the work to earn them organically, who might be more likely to be 'shady round the edges'. Or they might be wonderful TAGFEE businesses spending their ad budget wisely. Who's to say?

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Really good work, I favourited this on Twitter when it came out but sadly had a car accident earlier in the week - I've been hoping it would be a good return to work read and you didn't disappoint! I'd love to see a study of just paid results - I wonder whether its the people who spend the most for rankings, rather than do the work to earn them organically, who might be more likely to be 'shady round the edges'. Or they might be wonderful TAGFEE businesses spending their ad budget wisely. Who's to say? 
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Patricia Nemeth

2012-09-26T11:34:24-07:00

This was a great read and it was interesting to see how well I did on the test.

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This was a great read and it was interesting to see how well I did on the test. 
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Donna Duncan

2012-09-25T18:28:31-07:00

What a fun & interesting case study! Just curious, what were you planning to do with any "shockingly black-hat response(s)"?

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What a fun & interesting case study! Just curious, what were you planning to do with any "shockingly black-hat response(s)"? 
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- Ashley Sefferman
 
 2012-09-26T10:01:06-07:00
 
 Thanks for the comment, Donna! We were prepared to share all results of the study from day one, whether they supported our hypothesis or not. Fortunately, we did not receive any shockingly black-hat answers to report :)
 
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 Thanks for the comment, Donna! We were prepared to share all results of the study from day one, whether they supported our hypothesis or not. Fortunately, we did not receive any shockingly black-hat answers to report :)
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Ryan Kent

2012-09-28T14:06:43-07:00

The idea behind this report is excellent and needed. Our industry does have a negative reputation. I do believe much of that reputation has been "earned" over time and there are legitimate reasons for it.

My bank recently suggested I begin using their credit card processor for my agency. I agreed and completed the application. I was promptly called and informed they have black listed SEO agencies and will not process my payments. Really? I was infomred SEO agencies are in the same classification as herbal viagra sites. I explained I am registered as a corporation in two states, with our local chamber of commerce, Duns & Bradstreet, have a perfect banking and credit history, etc. I was informed there was no flexibility and they simply will not process payments for SEO agencies. It is quite a wake up call to just how bad things are with the industry.

While I love the idea behind the research performed, I share the sentiments others mentioned regarding the methodology.

Only choosing the agencies who rank at the top of search results. The question to ask is where does the SEO industries bad rap come from? It does not seem to originate from major corporations who have the funding to take steps to measure quality. It comes from the millions of small business owners. How do they decide on a SEO provider?

- respond to e-mail offers- perform a Google search but click on an ad- perform a Bing / Yahoo search- via forums, blogs, Q&As, etc- oDesk and similar sites- etc

Here's an idea for the next study. Buy a domain and through up a 1 page site "Coming Soon - Seattle Consulting Services". Place your e-mail on the home page and then survey some of the e-mails you will receive from SEO providers. How would that change the results?

I am also curious to know how those who were unwilling to speak in detail via e-mail would have responded. Some may have been completely legitimate but others may not reply in writing because they do not wish to leave a paper trail. I could go on but you get the idea. The way the study was performed it seems unbalanced towards the best possible outcome.

I very much applaud SEOmoz for stepping up and venturing into this area. I look forward to any similar studies conducted in the future.

RyanKent edited 2012-09-28T14:07:37-07:00
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The idea behind this report is excellent and needed. Our industry does have a negative reputation. I do believe much of that reputation has been "earned" over time and there are legitimate reasons for it. My bank recently suggested I begin using their credit card processor for my agency. I agreed and completed the application. I was promptly called and informed they have black listed SEO agencies and will not process my payments. Really? I was infomred SEO agencies are in the same classification as herbal viagra sites. I explained I am registered as a corporation in two states, with our local chamber of commerce, Duns & Bradstreet, have a perfect banking and credit history, etc. I was informed there was no flexibility and they simply will not process payments for SEO agencies. It is quite a wake up call to just how bad things are with the industry. While I love the idea behind the research performed, I share the sentiments others mentioned regarding the methodology. Only choosing the agencies who rank at the top of search results. The question to ask is where does the SEO industries bad rap come from? It does not seem to originate from major corporations who have the funding to take steps to measure quality. It comes from the millions of small business owners. How do they decide on a SEO provider? - respond to e-mail offers- perform a Google search but click on an ad- perform a Bing / Yahoo search- via forums, blogs, Q&As, etc- oDesk and similar sites- etc Here's an idea for the next study. Buy a domain and through up a 1 page site "Coming Soon - Seattle Consulting Services". Place your e-mail on the home page and then survey some of the e-mails you will receive from SEO providers. How would that change the results? I am also curious to know how those who were unwilling to speak in detail via e-mail would have responded. Some may have been completely legitimate but others may not reply in writing because they do not wish to leave a paper trail. I could go on but you get the idea. The way the study was performed it seems unbalanced towards the best possible outcome. I very much applaud SEOmoz for stepping up and venturing into this area. I look forward to any similar studies conducted in the future. 
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AvenueSeo

2012-09-28T15:02:13-07:00

I am going to speak from a different perspective here- that of the small business owner, the client. Many of you seem well aware that there is a shady layer hovering over the reputation and tactics of SEO professionals, more than is exposed here. Certainly not all but, as we know, enough bad apples will spoil the bunch.

I am here deperate for SEO help. I truly need to outsource the job of SEO but in asking for recommendations, I have been told many stories of like minded colleagues spending a nice chunk of their already small budget for minimal or no real results. I am scared to death to put my little, but hard earned, business in a position of poor cash flow because I am spending money on SEO services hoping for results that never come. Instead, I grow at a slower pace and spend the little free time I have trying to learn all that I can and apply my part-time, "self taught", SEO knowleged to my business. As SEO professionals, you know this is not wise and so do I. However, there are no guarantees at my level of business and no "Angie's List" of services to feel comfortable taking that step at this stage.....as much as I really want to. I am all for taking risks, but mindful, educated risks.

I would love to have some sort of process or service to rely on that would allow me enough peace of mind to take the risk of spending the money I need to spend on SEO and get the services I want to get. Some of you have some real ideas of what is needed and I hope you will keep exploring those ideas to work at bridging the gap between small business owners who want the services and reputable providers of SEO services. It is truly needed!

Just my two cents! Thanks for hearing it.

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I am going to speak from a different perspective here- that of the small business owner, the client. Many of you seem well aware that there is a shady layer hovering over the reputation and tactics of SEO professionals, more than is exposed here. Certainly not all but, as we know, enough bad apples will spoil the bunch. I am here deperate for SEO help. I truly need to outsource the job of SEO but in asking for recommendations, I have been told many stories of like minded colleagues spending a nice chunk of their already small budget for minimal or no real results. I am scared to death to put my little, but hard earned, business in a position of poor cash flow because I am spending money on SEO services hoping for results that never come. Instead, I grow at a slower pace and spend the little free time I have trying to learn all that I can and apply my part-time, "self taught", SEO knowleged to my business. As SEO professionals, you know this is not wise and so do I. However, there are no guarantees at my level of business and no "Angie's List" of services to feel comfortable taking that step at this stage.....as much as I really want to. I am all for taking risks, but mindful, educated risks. I would love to have some sort of process or service to rely on that would allow me enough peace of mind to take the risk of spending the money I need to spend on SEO and get the services I want to get. Some of you have some real ideas of what is needed and I hope you will keep exploring those ideas to work at bridging the gap between small business owners who want the services and reputable providers of SEO services. It is truly needed! Just my two cents! Thanks for hearing it. 
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- Frederic Chanut
 
 2012-09-28T19:07:47-07:00
 
 Anyone can self declare "SEO Experts" and it has been the case since the start of our profession.The debate you are going into is totally worth it: SEO need qualification & standards.Similar to accountants, lawyers and other service providers, I think our industry needs standards, regulation and a common corporation body where users can be rated (both individuals and companies profiles).
 Testing regularly members on their knowledgeEncouraging members to list their clientsGetting feedback from clients themselvesGet ready to demote a member for unethical activity
 What are the drawbacks in doing something like this? What should we look out for?
 
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 Anyone can self declare "SEO Experts" and it has been the case since the start of our profession.The debate you are going into is totally worth it: SEO need qualification & standards.Similar to accountants, lawyers and other service providers, I think our industry needs standards, regulation and a common corporation body where users can be rated (both individuals and companies profiles). Testing regularly members on their knowledgeEncouraging members to list their clientsGetting feedback from clients themselvesGet ready to demote a member for unethical activity What are the drawbacks in doing something like this? What should we look out for?
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Marisa Brayman

2012-09-25T13:31:07-07:00

This was extremely interesting to read. I found the positive results surprising at first, but after reading the comments, I do agree that using the best ranking SEOs doesn't give an accurate representation of the whole industry. Regardless, I love that you did this study. It's just one for of the thousand reasons I love SEOmoz--you guys take the time to do stuff like this!

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This was extremely interesting to read. I found the positive results surprising at first, but after reading the comments, I do agree that using the best ranking SEOs doesn't give an accurate representation of the whole industry. Regardless, I love that you did this study. It's just one for of the thousand reasons I love SEOmoz--you guys take the time to do stuff like this! 
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Sha Menz

2012-09-25T13:54:34-07:00

Very interesting exercise indeed!

My first thought was "Wow. Nice to see the SERPs are actually helpful for SEO terms".

The second: "Just Google, or did you use Bing too? If not, why not?"

On the subject of exactly where the problems in the industry are coming from, in my view "familial" and "contact" SEO are at the root of a lot of it.
- Familial SEO = Every second small business client who tells someone that they have just contracted an SEO at a particular price per hour or month, suddenly has a nephew, niece, uncle, 5 brothers or a best friend, all of whom are "expert" SEO's with massive experience. Of course, it's interesting that with such expertise in their circle of family and friends, they chose to look elsewhere for help in the first place.
 
 When I come across the Familial SEO phenomenon, I generally give the client the option of choosing which way they want to go. I learned a long time ago that if a client is primarily focused on getting things "on the cheap" and willing to go with someone who has little or no idea what they are doing for the sake of saving dollars, then they are unlikely to commit to what's required to produce quality content, make site modifications etc anyway. Not to mention the fact that every future conversation you have with them will come with helpful advice about article spinning software or questions carefully designed to glean information that might be useful for their expert helpers.
- Contact SEO = The client who decides that the information they have absorbed from you with regard to specific issues with their own website somehow qualifies them as an SEO. I have to say it takes me a couple of days for the shock to wear off when I receive a LinkedIn or Twitter update that tells me a client has updated their profile to add SEO to their skill set 8O.
 
 While I would love to believe that I am so effective at teaching my clients that this is a good thing, that simply isn't the case. I've been alarmed to see this happen several times in the past few years. The most alarming of all, a client with no aptitude for even following advice for their own site, who set themselves up as a local "internet marketing" vendor :(
Oh dear. I think I need to go back and read your post again to lift my spirits! :)

Sha

ShaMenz edited 2012-09-25T13:56:42-07:00
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Very interesting exercise indeed! My first thought was "Wow. Nice to see the SERPs are actually helpful for SEO terms". The second: "Just Google, or did you use Bing too? If not, why not?" On the subject of exactly where the problems in the industry are coming from, in my view "familial" and "contact" SEO are at the root of a lot of it. <ul><li>Familial SEO = Every second small business client who tells someone that they have just contracted an SEO at a particular price per hour or month, suddenly has a nephew, niece, uncle, 5 brothers or a best friend, all of whom are "expert" SEO's with massive experience. Of course, it's interesting that with such expertise in their circle of family and friends, they chose to look elsewhere for help in the first place. When I come across the Familial SEO phenomenon, I generally give the client the option of choosing which way they want to go. I learned a long time ago that if a client is primarily focused on getting things "on the cheap" and willing to go with someone who has little or no idea what they are doing for the sake of saving dollars, then they are unlikely to commit to what's required to produce quality content, make site modifications etc anyway. Not to mention the fact that every future conversation you have with them will come with helpful advice about article spinning software or questions carefully designed to glean information that might be useful for their expert helpers. </li><li>Contact SEO = The client who decides that the information they have absorbed from you with regard to specific issues with their own website somehow qualifies them as an SEO. I have to say it takes me a couple of days for the shock to wear off when I receive a LinkedIn or Twitter update that tells me a client has updated their profile to add SEO to their skill set 8O. While I would love to believe that I am so effective at teaching my clients that this is a good thing, that simply isn't the case. I've been alarmed to see this happen several times in the past few years. The most alarming of all, a client with no aptitude for even following advice for their own site, who set themselves up as a local "internet marketing" vendor :(</li></ul> Oh dear. I think I need to go back and read your post again to lift my spirits! :) Sha 
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- Ashley Sefferman
 
 2012-09-26T10:05:05-07:00
 
 Hi Sha! Thanks for the kind words :) In response to your question, we used Google as the primary search engine for this study. However, it would be interesting to see the results from different engines for the same queries lined up next to each other. Good thinking!
 
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 Hi Sha! Thanks for the kind words :) In response to your question, we used Google as the primary search engine for this study. However, it would be interesting to see the results from different engines for the same queries lined up next to each other. Good thinking!
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identity

2012-09-25T12:15:53-07:00

Interesting study. Happy to see it went the direction it did! Of course, hopefully anyone knew to SEOmoz also understands that the results still would have been shared even if they took a less rosy course.

I'm sure that there will be plenty who support the results, but plenty of others who will disagree or show otherwise.

The reality is, unfortunately, this industry will always face this challenge and will always come under fire for it. The very nature of what has helped so many of us carve out new, respectable careers in this field -- low/no barrier of entry and wealth of information shared -- also makes it easy for hobbyists, "flavors-of-the-month" and scammers and the ethically-challenged to "hang their shingles" as well.

There are all degrees here that can lead to this view, from truly black hat, to mis-informed or just varying opinions.

And for many of those outside the industry, if you call yourself an "SEO," then you must be one...and to many, SEO is SEO is SEO.

Half the challenge then is education, not just within the industry, but just as importantly, outside the industry. I've worked for myself, over 5 years on the agency side, and now in-house. In all cases, a large amount of my time still comes down to educating the "buyer," whether that was my clients, client contacts and their peers, or now, the internal teams and peers.

It can be challenging to block out some of the negative, but the best thing this industry can do is recognize that some of that will always be present, and continue to focus energies on fighting the good fight and educating those around us. As SEO buyers become more and more knowledgeable, it only makes it harder and possibly less desirable for the scammers, quick-buck-artists and the like to continue.

Of course, that is the idealist view...I imagine this will fall somewhere in between. Your mileage may vary.

Cheers

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Interesting study. Happy to see it went the direction it did! Of course, hopefully anyone knew to SEOmoz also understands that the results still would have been shared even if they took a less rosy course. I'm sure that there will be plenty who support the results, but plenty of others who will disagree or show otherwise. The reality is, unfortunately, this industry will always face this challenge and will always come under fire for it. The very nature of what has helped so many of us carve out new, respectable careers in this field -- low/no barrier of entry and wealth of information shared -- also makes it easy for hobbyists, "flavors-of-the-month" and scammers and the ethically-challenged to "hang their shingles" as well. There are all degrees here that can lead to this view, from truly black hat, to mis-informed or just varying opinions. And for many of those outside the industry, if you call yourself an "SEO," then you must be one...and to many, SEO is SEO is SEO. Half the challenge then is education, not just within the industry, but just as importantly, outside the industry. I've worked for myself, over 5 years on the agency side, and now in-house. In all cases, a large amount of my time still comes down to educating the "buyer," whether that was my clients, client contacts and their peers, or now, the internal teams and peers. It can be challenging to block out some of the negative, but the best thing this industry can do is recognize that some of that will always be present, and continue to focus energies on fighting the good fight and educating those around us. As SEO buyers become more and more knowledgeable, it only makes it harder and possibly less desirable for the scammers, quick-buck-artists and the like to continue. Of course, that is the idealist view...I imagine this will fall somewhere in between. Your mileage may vary. Cheers 
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Rob Woods

2012-09-25T11:19:10-07:00

I have to agree. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Beanstalk and Dave to anyone. I've worked with and chatted with Dave in the recent past. Great experience. I'd consider Dave and Beanstalk to be among a half dozen or so I would recommend without hesitation.

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I have to agree. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Beanstalk and Dave to anyone. I've worked with and chatted with Dave in the recent past. Great experience. I'd consider Dave and Beanstalk to be among a half dozen or so I would recommend without hesitation. 
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Zeph Snapp

2012-09-25T11:32:02-07:00

REALLY enjoyed reading this! It must have been a super fun project to work on. The one bone I have to pick is that by not following up via phone, or paying a small retainer fee you probably weeded out many of the companies who would have made grey/black proposals.

No matter, I'm glad to see that the good guys are winning.

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REALLY enjoyed reading this! It must have been a super fun project to work on. The one bone I have to pick is that by not following up via phone, or paying a small retainer fee you probably weeded out many of the companies who would have made grey/black proposals. No matter, I'm glad to see that the good guys are winning.
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- Ashley Sefferman
 
 2012-09-25T11:42:54-07:00
 
 Thanks, Zeph! It was a great project to work on, and we definitely learned a lot.
 
 We decided to keep the project communication online-only early on, but the thought did cross our mind. It's a factor to keep in mind for the next project :)
 
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 Thanks, Zeph! It was a great project to work on, and we definitely learned a lot. We decided to keep the project communication online-only early on, but the thought did cross our mind. It's a factor to keep in mind for the next project :)
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polarking

2012-09-25T11:38:11-07:00

I always wondered about this thanks for the post. I have always found that you find the Good guys. The bad guys find you. When I get a call asking me to search something on Google it's usually a bad firm in my experience

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I always wondered about this thanks for the post. I have always found that you find the Good guys. The bad guys find you. When I get a call asking me to search something on Google it's usually a bad firm in my experience 
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- Chris Hubbard
 
 2012-09-25T13:21:56-07:00
 
 I think you hit the nail right on the head here. The phone bank solicitation and bulk emails offering SEO services should set off alarm bells in your head.
 
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 I think you hit the nail right on the head here. The phone bank solicitation and bulk emails offering SEO services should set off alarm bells in your head. 
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 - Steve Morgan
 
 2012-09-26T02:31:25-07:00
 
 I think it's true of any industry. If someone has to win business by visiting door-to-door or hitting the phones/emails and contacting strangers, it's not a good sign. A truly good business shouldn't seek business in this way - they should rely on referral/testimonial marketing or at least inbound marketing (i.e. the leads should come to them, not the other way around).
 
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 I think it's true of any industry. If someone has to win business by visiting door-to-door or hitting the phones/emails and contacting strangers, it's not a good sign. A truly good business shouldn't seek business in this way - they should rely on referral/testimonial marketing or at least inbound marketing (i.e. the leads should come to them, not the other way around).
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- Marisa Brayman
 
 2012-09-26T07:53:53-07:00
 
 This is one of my favorite comments I've read in a while. I think it's something we should all tattoo on our eyelids. "You find the good guys; the bad guys find you."
 I get phone calls and emails every day from SEO, marketing Adwords agencies offering me something, and they're all crap. The legit companies simply don't employ these types of tactics to get business (for the most part).
 
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 This is one of my favorite comments I've read in a while. I think it's something we should all tattoo on our eyelids. "You find the good guys; the bad guys find you." I get phone calls and emails every day from SEO, marketing Adwords agencies offering me something, and they're all crap. The legit companies simply don't employ these types of tactics to get business (for the most part). 
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Ryland Bacorn

2012-09-25T11:45:24-07:00

This is great to learn that we are among good people offering high quality services. It was/is only a matter of time before those who cannot provide the goods move onto the next big thing in internet marketing.

Thanks SEOmoz for keeping us optimistic!

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This is great to learn that we are among good people offering high quality services. It was/is only a matter of time before those who cannot provide the goods move onto the next big thing in internet marketing. Thanks SEOmoz for keeping us optimistic! 
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Mario Lurig

2012-09-25T11:45:16-07:00

I want to know more about the 3 that figured out SEOMoz was behind it. How did they figure it out?

Beyond that, this was a fantastic idea, execution, and result.

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I want to know more about the 3 that figured out SEOMoz was behind it. How did they figure it out? Beyond that, this was a fantastic idea, execution, and result. 
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- Ashley Sefferman
 
 2012-09-25T11:53:52-07:00
 
 Thanks for the comment, Mario! To gather data in the most neutral way possible, we set Kurtis Bohrnstedt (the SEOmoz Research Specialist) up with a PEPS email address. The three agencies that figured out SEOmoz was behind the project did a quick search of his name and found his employee profile on our "About" section. We wanted to be transparent, so we filled them in on the project immediately. All three were kind enough to keep their lips sealed until the case study launched :)
 
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 Thanks for the comment, Mario! To gather data in the most neutral way possible, we set <a href="https://www.seomoz.org/team/kurtisbohrnstedt" rel="nofollow">Kurtis Bohrnstedt</a> (the SEOmoz Research Specialist) up with a PEPS email address. The three agencies that figured out SEOmoz was behind the project did a quick search of his name and found his employee profile on our "About" section. We wanted to be transparent, so we filled them in on the project immediately. All three were kind enough to keep their lips sealed until the case study launched :)
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 - bluehorseradish
 
 2012-09-25T21:46:16-07:00
 
 Ashley, yes we (Blue Horseradish) did keep the cone of silence intact...until now!
 
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 Ashley, yes we (Blue Horseradish) did keep the cone of silence intact...until now!
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- markkennedy
 
 2012-09-25T17:31:27-07:00
 
 Hi, Mario. When Kurtis filled out my form, I was curious why a Seattle Hospital was looking for help from a company in Philly. Not that we won't help people across the country, but usually those potential clients are references. However, he came from a Philadelphia search term.
 
 Also, when I checked my search logs, I saw the IP was on the west coast for that visitor. So like Ashley pointed out, I Google'd his name. And as you can guess, there are not many Kurtis Bohrnstedt's in the country ;)
 
 So I politely shared my findings about his name, the keyword and the IP and he was very upfront about everything. Nice guy all around and I'm glad to see the end result of Ruth, Ashley, and Kurtis' hard work. Nice job, guys!
 
 And a well-deserved congrats to Dave Davies, too!
 
 markkennedy edited 2012-09-25T17:32:12-07:00
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 Hi, Mario. When Kurtis filled out my form, I was curious why a Seattle Hospital was looking for help from a company in Philly. Not that we won't help people across the country, but usually those potential clients are references. However, he came from a Philadelphia search term. Also, when I checked my search logs, I saw the IP was on the west coast for that visitor. So like Ashley pointed out, I Google'd his name. And as you can guess, there are not many Kurtis Bohrnstedt's in the country ;) So I politely shared my findings about his name, the keyword and the IP and he was very upfront about everything. Nice guy all around and I'm glad to see the end result of Ruth, Ashley, and Kurtis' hard work. Nice job, guys! And a well-deserved congrats to Dave Davies, too!
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Doug Roberts

2012-09-26T10:49:34-07:00

The problem we face is the perception of "SEO" and it's not hard to see why potential clients can be cynical and suspicious.

It seams that not a week goes by when I don't get multiple emails offering me link exchanges, emails offering me bargain-basement SEO or guaranteed rankings. I get phone calls from scammers pretending to be Google trying to sell me rankings and then being verbally abusive when I question them!

I've also had reports from small business owners who tell me about their experience with some of the industry leading directories. When these organisations are telling people that the reason they're not ranking is "because you're not paying enough."

It doesn't create an overwhelming sense of satisfaction.

So while it's good news that the responses were so good in this study. I do still worry that it doesn't capture all those occasions when the first touch as been from a less than reputable organisation.

I think it makes a big difference if the client instigates the relationship, based on a little research rather than reacting to a cold call/email promising easy wins/short cuts to rankings...

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The problem we face is the perception of "SEO" and it's not hard to see why potential clients can be cynical and suspicious. It seams that not a week goes by when I don't get multiple emails offering me link exchanges, emails offering me bargain-basement SEO or guaranteed rankings. I get phone calls from scammers pretending to be Google trying to sell me rankings and then being verbally abusive when I question them! I've also had reports from small business owners who tell me about their experience with some of the industry leading directories. When these organisations are telling people that the reason they're not ranking is "because you're not paying enough." It doesn't create an overwhelming sense of satisfaction. So while it's good news that the responses were so good in this study. I do still worry that it doesn't capture all those occasions when the first touch as been from a less than reputable organisation. I think it makes a big difference if the client instigates the relationship, based on a little research rather than reacting to a cold call/email promising easy wins/short cuts to rankings... 
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Palwinder Sharma

2012-09-25T21:32:45-07:00

Congrats Dave... Well Deserved.

And Now. I have a questions.. like in that survey you guys had asked a question that "We get lots of emails from people wanting to trade or exchange links with us. Should we be saying yes? Will this help with SEO?"

And our senior said that no we should not exchange links as it's against the google Policy..

But WHY NOT??

Why we cannot exchange links if they are relevant to our website and are having good PR. I don't see anything wrong in this.... because it will be good if some one is referring you when your services are needed or been asked. don't you think so...??

Kindly Correct me if i'm wrong..

PalKaushik edited 2012-09-26T00:55:18-07:00
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Congrats Dave... Well Deserved. And Now. I have a questions.. like in that survey you guys had asked a question that "We get lots of emails from people wanting to trade or exchange links with us. Should we be saying yes? Will this help with SEO?" And our senior said that no we should not exchange links as it's against the google Policy.. But WHY NOT?? Why we cannot exchange links if they are relevant to our website and are having good PR. I don't see anything wrong in this.... because it will be good if some one is referring you when your services are needed or been asked. don't you think so...?? Kindly Correct me if i'm wrong..
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- AndreWey
 
 2012-09-25T21:56:26-07:00
 
 You're not wrong, if this was the case, all linking for the good reasons would be against Google guidelines. Google hates automatic and purchased link programs. Reaching out in a relationship management style in order to gain links is NOT against guidelines.
 
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 You're not wrong, if this was the case, all linking for the good reasons would be against Google guidelines. Google hates automatic and purchased link programs. Reaching out in a relationship management style in order to gain links is NOT against guidelines. 
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- Ruth Burr Reedy
 
 2012-09-26T11:41:18-07:00
 
 In my experience, a request from a relevant site in your niche, with good PR, is so rare as to be almost un-heard-of. I do think that the 22.2% of respondents who said "yes, if it's relevant to PEPS" were not wrong - it's a case of there being two possible right answers. But if I were not going to go into the details of when, exactly, one should accept a link exchange and how, exactly, one can figure out whether it's worth doing (something most non-SEOs would have a hard time doing), "pretty much never" is the response that I would give.
 
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 In my experience, a request from a relevant site in your niche, with good PR, is so rare as to be almost un-heard-of. I do think that the 22.2% of respondents who said "yes, if it's relevant to PEPS" were not wrong - it's a case of there being two possible right answers. But if I were not going to go into the details of when, exactly, one should accept a link exchange and how, exactly, one can figure out whether it's worth doing (something most non-SEOs would have a hard time doing), "pretty much never" is the response that I would give.
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Mat Bennett

2012-09-26T02:09:34-07:00

I don't think that it is a big surprise that companies ranking for those terms know what they're talking about. It's good to see that confirmed though.

I'd love to see a comparative study against those SEO companies who cold call. My feeling is that the results would be very different. I don't know what the state of play is in the US, but here in the UK those are the firms that are preying on small businesses and given them the hard sell for some pretty questionable practices.

I am "lucky" enough to talk to some of these from time to time thanks to clients saying "you need to talk to Mat, our web guy" and handing out my number. The fantasy that they weave on the phone is quite incredible. Wouldn't be hard to get a target list of firms together :)

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I don't think that it is a big surprise that companies ranking for those terms know what they're talking about. It's good to see that confirmed though. I'd love to see a comparative study against those SEO companies who cold call. My feeling is that the results would be very different. I don't know what the state of play is in the US, but here in the UK those are the firms that are preying on small businesses and given them the hard sell for some pretty questionable practices. I am "lucky" enough to talk to some of these from time to time thanks to clients saying "you need to talk to Mat, our web guy" and handing out my number. The fantasy that they weave on the phone is quite incredible. Wouldn't be hard to get a target list of firms together :) 
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Desmond Walsh

2012-09-26T23:49:58-07:00

Only a week or so ago I was asked by a colleague to recommend someone here in Australia to do some SEO work for a client of hers. I found a lot of people in my extended network claiming/offering SEO expertise and I wish I'd had the information in this post to help me sift. Bookmarking for future reference.

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Only a week or so ago I was asked by a colleague to recommend someone here in Australia to do some SEO work for a client of hers. I found a lot of people in my extended network claiming/offering SEO expertise and I wish I'd had the information in this post to help me sift. Bookmarking for future reference.
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Simon Dalley

2012-09-26T01:19:01-07:00

Great article - nice research, and I'm glad the results have come out the way they have. I had a horrible feeling when I started reading this it was going to be another industry bashing piece!

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Great article - nice research, and I'm glad the results have come out the way they have. I had a horrible feeling when I started reading this it was going to be another industry bashing piece!
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Chenzo

2012-09-25T11:18:17-07:00

Ashley - you sure are a light in a very dark room - as I have been approached more in the last 3 months with clients sites that have been destroyed with horrendous black hat tactics and excruciating painful tactics which will affect them negatively for a very long time.

Keep up the great work.

I think more people need to learn how to say "NO" more than saying "YES".

your pal
Chenzo

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Ashley - you sure are a light in a very dark room - as I have been approached more in the last 3 months with clients sites that have been destroyed with horrendous black hat tactics and excruciating painful tactics which will affect them negatively for a very long time. Keep up the great work. I think more people need to learn how to say "NO" more than saying "YES". your pal Chenzo 
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AndreWey

2012-09-25T18:46:46-07:00

Very good article and interesting survey results.. One comment. Saying a definite and harsh "NO" to people interested in link exchange is not good advise, if you can get a link by reaching out to webmasters of relevant and good quality sites, this is not against Google guidelines.

AndreWey edited 2012-09-25T18:50:46-07:00
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Very good article and interesting survey results.. One comment. Saying a definite and harsh "NO" to people interested in link exchange is not good advise, if you can get a link by reaching out to webmasters of relevant and good quality sites, this is not against Google guidelines. 
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Roque Lage de Llera

2012-09-25T14:48:57-07:00

UnderRugSwept made a point there!!

I was going to say that the results would be much different if they had picked up, the bottom 5 instead of top 5, even worse if you pick up on 2nd, 3rd pages, etc..

By the way, i totally loved the research and really liked how all the people involved reacted that well.

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<a href="https://www.seomoz.org/users/profile/364657" rel="nofollow">UnderRugSwept</a> made a point there!! I was going to say that the results would be much different if they had picked up, the bottom 5 instead of top 5, even worse if you pick up on 2nd, 3rd pages, etc.. By the way, i totally loved the research and really liked how all the people involved reacted that well.
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Ade Lewis

2012-09-25T23:31:22-07:00

Fantastic study and great to know that as an industry we generally do know what we are talking about.

I would love to see the results of a similar study in the UK but I suppose that the black cat is already out of the bag.

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Fantastic study and great to know that as an industry we generally do know what we are talking about. I would love to see the results of a similar study in the UK but I suppose that the black cat is already out of the bag.
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Jeremy Langer

2012-09-25T13:16:41-07:00

Very informative article, Ashley. It was nice to get a good measure on the quality of the services provided by some other SEO companies. Keep up the good work, SEOmoz!

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Very informative article, Ashley. It was nice to get a good measure on the quality of the services provided by some other SEO companies. Keep up the good work, SEOmoz!
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eververs

2012-09-26T09:51:26-07:00

Very cool article and study! I must say, even though most were pretty basic questions, the results varied a lot. But then again, there is never a true right or wrong in a lot of cases. If context specific knowledge is factored in, I'm sure there would be a bit more alignment in the answers. Rather than choosing the more 'popular' answers to get it right. Other than that, I find this eye opening study very relevant as a base for future studies.

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Very cool article and study! I must say, even though most were pretty basic questions, the results varied a lot. But then again, there is never a true right or wrong in a lot of cases. If context specific knowledge is factored in, I'm sure there would be a bit more alignment in the answers. Rather than choosing the more 'popular' answers to get it right. Other than that, I find this eye opening study very relevant as a base for future studies. 
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PMurph

2012-09-26T07:01:19-07:00

Great article and really shows that the industry is doing quite well at giving information to clients and trying to practice ethical tactics.

I saw a comment from Dr Pete in the comments here that I think makes a good point. He said that a lot of the tactic to entice prospective clients to do business is putting down other people and the bad job they are doing (at least I believe that is what I interpreted). I totally agree. I think that the business owners could do a better job of explaining (like the companies in the study did) where SEO is today and how their company can help.

Explaining the shift to more quality content and advising against possible bad tactics was great to see from everyone there.

The industry is not close to being dead, but we definitely need to watch our reputation. There is a responsibility of the white hats (all of us on here I am sure) to hold our industry at a high standard of ethics.

Good Jobs again on the article!

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Great article and really shows that the industry is doing quite well at giving information to clients and trying to practice ethical tactics. I saw a comment from Dr Pete in the comments here that I think makes a good point. He said that a lot of the tactic to entice prospective clients to do business is putting down other people and the bad job they are doing (at least I believe that is what I interpreted). I totally agree. I think that the business owners could do a better job of explaining (like the companies in the study did) where SEO is today and how their company can help. Explaining the shift to more quality content and advising against possible bad tactics was great to see from everyone there. The industry is not close to being dead, but we definitely need to watch our reputation. There is a responsibility of the white hats (all of us on here I am sure) to hold our industry at a high standard of ethics. Good Jobs again on the article! 
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Brahmadas R

2013-03-26T00:04:07-07:00

Hi Ashely, I like this post.
I don't know whether I am a authorized seo consultants
I usually read posts published by out industry leaders
watch Google web master tools help videos, listen questions and answers
I have optimized many blogs and websites and succeeded in bringing organic traffic

Still I don't believe that I am an authorized SEO consultant or seo expert

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Hi Ashely, I like this post. I don't know whether I am a authorized seo consultants I usually read posts published by out industry leaders watch Google web master tools help videos, listen questions and answers I have optimized many blogs and websites and succeeded in bringing organic traffic Still I don't believe that I am an authorized SEO consultant or seo expert 
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teamebg

2016-10-05T21:35:09-07:00

Guys if you are thinking of hiring an SEO first look at how they get there business, if they do not have several Google top page listings for their own company. Why do you think they will be able to do this for yours?
Find out what search keyword you want to rank for, find out the search volume on a monthly basis for this keyword and then ask you seo consultant to demonstrate where they have ranked a term that gets this level of volume in the top three of Google. If they cant answer move on.
A good SEO gets paid £75+ an hour the best charge thousands per month, If you pay £99 or $99 a month you expect to get less than an hours work and this will probably be delivered offshore by someone who does not not what they are doing. Do you really think you are going to get an SEO consultant to add £££ to your bottom line for £99 a month?

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Guys if you are thinking of hiring an SEO first look at how they get there business, if they do not have several Google top page listings for their own company. Why do you think they will be able to do this for yours? Find out what search keyword you want to rank for, find out the search volume on a monthly basis for this keyword and then ask you seo consultant to demonstrate where they have ranked a term that gets this level of volume in the top three of Google. If they cant answer move on. A good SEO gets paid £75+ an hour the best charge thousands per month, If you pay £99 or $99 a month you expect to get less than an hours work and this will probably be delivered offshore by someone who does not not what they are doing. Do you really think you are going to get an SEO consultant to add £££ to your bottom line for £99 a month?
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Matthew Bertulli

2012-09-25T13:16:29-07:00

The main emphasis of this study really intrigues me. I believe that design and tech firms are starting to advertise themselves as SEO consultants because design includes SEO friendly methods of development. Many platforms in themselves have back end fields designed for SEO friendly websites and easy to use editing tools to help site owners stay on top of SEO. That little knowledge translates into a push towards advising clients of search engine optimization best practices. It is always a learning curve since this industry is fast moving and changing frequently.

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The main emphasis of this study really intrigues me. I believe that design and tech firms are starting to advertise themselves as SEO consultants because design includes SEO friendly methods of development. Many platforms in themselves have back end fields designed for SEO friendly websites and easy to use editing tools to help site owners stay on top of SEO. That little knowledge translates into a push towards advising clients of search engine optimization best practices. It is always a learning curve since this industry is fast moving and changing frequently. 
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Kirk Bates

2012-09-25T13:24:01-07:00

Congrats Dave! Nice job! Thanks Ashley and Kurtis for making this happen! You have done our industry justice!

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Congrats Dave! Nice job! Thanks Ashley and Kurtis for making this happen! You have done our industry justice!
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- Ashley Sefferman
 
 2012-09-25T13:33:29-07:00
 
 Thanks for your participation, Kirk! Your responses were a huge help :) Also, don't forget Ruth Burr who played a huge role in bringing this project to life!
 
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 Thanks for your participation, Kirk! Your responses were a huge help :) Also, don't forget <a href="https://www.seomoz.org/team/ruthburr" rel="nofollow">Ruth Burr </a>who played a huge role in bringing this project to life!
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 - Kirk Bates
 
 2012-09-25T13:35:19-07:00
 
 Right. Sorry. Thanks so much Ruth!
 
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 Right. Sorry. Thanks so much Ruth! 
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- Dave Davies
 
 2012-09-27T09:39:07-07:00
 
 Thanks Kirk. :)
 
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 Thanks Kirk. :)
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wakodeprashant6

2012-10-15T23:46:25-07:00

After reading the survey result, I can only say "Wow". Congrats & Cheers Dave for clearing the SeoMOZ Test. Good luck.

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After reading the survey result, I can only say "Wow". Congrats & Cheers Dave for clearing the SeoMOZ Test. Good luck. 
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- Dave Davies
 
 2012-10-16T12:15:54-07:00
 
 Thanks. :D
 
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 Thanks. :D 
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Mike Kalil

2012-09-25T11:29:23-07:00

But TLDs can affect rankings, right? SEOMoz's best practices: "Like hyphens, TLDs such as .info, .cc, .ws, and .name are spam indicators."

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But TLDs can affect rankings, right? SEOMoz's best practices: "Like hyphens, TLDs such as .info, .cc, .ws, and .name are spam indicators." 
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- Ruth Burr Reedy
 
 2012-09-25T11:39:31-07:00
 
 That's a good point, Mike, and probably worth clarifying. There are some TLDs that are spam indicators, but in the context of the question (.com vs. .org), the answer we were looking for is "it won't make much difference."
 
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 That's a good point, Mike, and probably worth clarifying. There are some TLDs that are spam indicators, but in the context of the question (.com vs. .org), the answer we were looking for is "it won't make much difference."
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Nick Stamoulis

2012-09-26T06:27:14-07:00

It's wonderful to see so many SEO consultants doing great work! I know there will always be scammers and spammers out there but it's nice to know that maybe, just maybe, there aren't as many as we (or the public) think. Let's show the world what great SEO and SEO consultants look like!

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It's wonderful to see so many SEO consultants doing great work! I know there will always be scammers and spammers out there but it's nice to know that maybe, just maybe, there aren't as many as we (or the public) think. Let's show the world what great SEO and SEO consultants look like! 
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eBrandz

2012-09-26T11:57:18-07:00

Its always easy to sit back and find mistakes with a study like this. But I really want to applaud Ashley, Kurtis, Ruth and seomoz team for conducting this survey. Nearly 3 months of work? Awesome!

Dr Pete is spot on when he says that we have a tendency to see negative in this industry for self serving purposes.

The initial question emails, the follow up email and finally the revelation email were all very classy.

Among all the so called surveys done on this topic, I would really trust this one. I don't mind Seomoz doing such survey, but I hope that many others don't start doing similar surveys. It would be a waste of many seo company's time.

And note to my team - Google client before you give out answers ;)

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Its always easy to sit back and find mistakes with a study like this. But I really want to applaud Ashley, Kurtis, Ruth and seomoz team for conducting this survey. Nearly 3 months of work? Awesome! Dr Pete is spot on when he says that we have a tendency to see negative in this industry for self serving purposes. The initial question emails, the follow up email and finally the revelation email were all very classy. Among all the so called surveys done on this topic, I would really trust this one. I don't mind Seomoz doing such survey, but I hope that many others don't start doing similar surveys. It would be a waste of many seo company's time. And note to my team - Google client before you give out answers ;)
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motor

2012-09-28T05:16:53-07:00

I study much for this best content

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I study much for this best content 
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NakulGoyal

2012-09-26T12:32:05-07:00

Very interesting...great work SEOMoz. This was a brilliant idea. Kudos for whoever came up with the idea and everybody involved in making this happen.

How did those 3 companies figure it out ? Were there any loose-ends ? How'd they know ?

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Very interesting...great work SEOMoz. This was a brilliant idea. Kudos for whoever came up with the idea and everybody involved in making this happen. How did those 3 companies figure it out ? Were there any loose-ends ? How'd they know ? 
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Jenny Stradling

2012-09-27T11:02:52-07:00

We sent this blog post to the team in our office, and my partner Chris Weatherall, had the following to say:

The answer is 6! That test sucked because they dismissed the companies that wanted to have a more in-dept talk with them and the ones that figured out it was SEOmoz. Also the companies you'd find in the searches they ran have to be more reputable because they are ranking for those difficult terms for a reason. Most people in the general public find SEO after they search for web design, web development and marketing terms NOT SEO terms. The test needs to be conducted with those queries to find the real crooks ripping people off. Any real online crook knows better than to rank for terms that will bring in traffic from those educated in the field they want to take advantage of.

Thank You

Chris

2 1

We sent this blog post to the team in our office, and my partner Chris Weatherall, had the following to say: The answer is 6! That test sucked because they dismissed the companies that wanted to have a more in-dept talk with them and the ones that figured out it was SEOmoz. Also the companies you'd find in the searches they ran have to be more reputable because they are ranking for those difficult terms for a reason. Most people in the general public find SEO after they search for web design, web development and marketing terms NOT SEO terms. The test needs to be conducted with those queries to find the real crooks ripping people off. Any real online crook knows better than to rank for terms that will bring in traffic from those educated in the field they want to take advantage of. Thank You Chris
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- Dave Davies
 
 2012-09-27T12:08:26-07:00
 
 While it's been admitted that the methodology does not factor in everyone nor target specifically the unethical (or they would have simply replied to a few of the "I can get your site ranking in 90 days" emails we all get on a daily basis) I think the point was to show that there are a solid set of SEO's who behave well to help offset the horrendous reputation the industry gets based on the actions of the others.
 Of course, as a participant I'm obviously biases but I think it served it's purpose to that end. And let's call a spade a spade ... all data, no matter how it's acquired, is never 100% accurate - one can only work within the confines of the data being collected. :)
 
 1 0
 
 While it's been admitted that the methodology does not factor in everyone nor target specifically the unethical (or they would have simply replied to a few of the "I can get your site ranking in 90 days" emails we all get on a daily basis) I think the point was to show that there are a solid set of SEO's who behave well to help offset the horrendous reputation the industry gets based on the actions of the others. Of course, as a participant I'm obviously biases but I think it served it's purpose to that end. And let's call a spade a spade ... all data, no matter how it's acquired, is never 100% accurate - one can only work within the confines of the data being collected. :)
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eBizUniverse-ChicagoSEO

2012-09-26T21:25:58-07:00

Great mini research project and I'm glad to have have been part of this study. Kudos to Ashley and Kurtis for what you've done. I was just going through the email that Kurtis sent me first and my initial response was brief and a request to talk over the phone. There are many competitors fishing for info so it's something we do to weed them out. Kurtis' response was

"Thank you so much for taking the time to help us out. Unfortunately I don't have access to a phone, so it would be great if we could communicate through email. Your responses to the questions would be greatly appreciated, so we have a vague understanding of where we stand before we get started."

It sounded funny to me that he didn't have access to a phone, which at first was a red flag but seeing that he was emailing from a PEPS.org email address made it seem trustworthy.

Funny to know now that it was all a setup...Anyway I think what you guys did was fantastic and this vindicates the genuine SEO companies and also provides a guideline for anyone looking to do SEO as well.

Thomas - eBizUniverse

eBizUniverse-ChicagoSEO edited 2012-09-26T21:30:57-07:00
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Great mini research project and I'm glad to have have been part of this study. Kudos to Ashley and Kurtis for what you've done. I was just going through the email that Kurtis sent me first and my initial response was brief and a request to talk over the phone. There are many competitors fishing for info so it's something we do to weed them out. Kurtis' response was "Thank you so much for taking the time to help us out. Unfortunately I don't have access to a phone, so it would be great if we could communicate through email. Your responses to the questions would be greatly appreciated, so we have a vague understanding of where we stand before we get started." It sounded funny to me that he didn't have access to a phone, which at first was a red flag but seeing that he was emailing from a PEPS.org email address made it seem trustworthy. Funny to know now that it was all a setup...Anyway I think what you guys did was fantastic and this vindicates the genuine SEO companies and also provides a guideline for anyone looking to do SEO as well. Thomas - eBizUniverse
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SEOCharlie

2012-09-26T11:38:57-07:00

I like the idea of the project. What I feel, is that maybe it were the "wrong" people who answer the questions. I mean, it´s not the same talk about Panda from someone who really understood the all mess with links and other SEO -Offsite- stuffs. Agencies and Consultants are not the same.

I would love to do the same thing in other countries outside US.

Results could be really different :)

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I like the idea of the project. What I feel, is that maybe it were the "wrong" people who answer the questions. I mean, it´s not the same talk about Panda from someone who really understood the all mess with links and other SEO -Offsite- stuffs. Agencies and Consultants are not the same. I would love to do the same thing in other countries outside US. Results could be really different :) 
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- jennita
 
 2012-09-26T15:39:47-07:00
 
 You should totally do it! :)
 
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 You should totally do it! :) 
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Shirley White

2012-10-02T02:35:50-07:00

superb written.... it will help me a lot.

Thanks a lot for this superb post Ashley :)

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superb written.... it will help me a lot. Thanks a lot for this superb post Ashley :) 
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SpookSEO

2014-01-11T08:06:28-08:00

What people doesnt understand about the industry we live on is that it is very complex. Several people doesnt get what we do and just take it for granted. But still despite the negative impression they have we still move forward. We are still continuing the task we have. SEO people are great people. Full of intelligence, creativity and always aims whats best for the industry. Thank you for the great post Ashley, i would like to recommend your page. Its a great read.

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 What people doesnt understand about the industry we live on is that it is very complex. Several people doesnt get what we do and just take it for granted. But still despite the negative impression they have we still move forward. We are still continuing the task we have. SEO people are great people. Full of intelligence, creativity and always aims whats best for the industry. Thank you for the great post Ashley, i would like to recommend your page. Its a great read. 
Cancel
George Wyngaardt

2013-05-21T08:04:30-07:00

Wow where was I for this hot topic ? I am going to perform the same experiment in South Africa. Can you help me out with the structure you used? I am trying to setup a community but struggling with content. check out my blog SEO Active

KeriMorgret edited 2013-05-22T08:30:58-07:00
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Wow where was I for this hot topic ? I am going to perform the same experiment in South Africa. Can you help me out with the structure you used? I am trying to setup a community but struggling with content. check out my blog SEO Active
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John Black

2015-07-16T10:15:50-07:00

Great post. Very interesting for me as I am a SEO consultant as well.

Regards,
Hafiz

MattRoney edited 2015-07-20T16:34:24-07:00
1 0

Great post. Very interesting for me as I am a SEO consultant as well. Regards, Hafiz 
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SEO Consultant

2015-07-21T18:57:21-07:00

A very good read Ashley, thank you.

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A very good read Ashley, thank you.
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Avishek prakash SEO Expert

2016-01-23T06:31:41-08:00

yes true,

i am also #SEO Consultant from india

provide SEO services from Avishek.asia

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yes true, i am also #SEO Consultant from india provide SEO services from Avishek.asia 
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Anita_Clark

2013-01-19T05:52:25-08:00

A big kudos to Dave and his team at Beanstalk SEO for walking the talk!

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A big kudos to Dave and his team at Beanstalk SEO for walking the talk! 
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Premnath321

2012-12-10T05:08:59-08:00

If i said honestly,,,Really there are very few peoples who knows what is they are talking about.The Concepts are also varies person to person.

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If i said honestly,,,Really there are very few peoples who knows what is they are talking about.The Concepts are also varies person to person.
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Dan Elder

2012-09-30T05:56:37-07:00

Really interesting article and very well written.
Cheers
Dan

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Really interesting article and very well written. Cheers Dan
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Ory Purhonen

2012-09-29T09:18:39-07:00

Excellent article Ashley. From my dealings with smaller SEO agencies, I've learned they aren't always up-to-date with the latest algorithm updates. Occasionally makes me laugh..

Regards,
Ory

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Excellent article Ashley. From my dealings with smaller SEO agencies, I've learned they aren't always up-to-date with the latest algorithm updates. Occasionally makes me laugh.. Regards, Ory 
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Tarjinder S. Kailey

2012-09-30T23:15:35-07:00

Great article! SEO is not just simply seo. Anyone can say that they are experts. Be wise enough to set your qualifications and standards.

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Great article! SEO is not just simply seo. Anyone can say that they are experts. Be wise enough to set your qualifications and standards. 
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Dirk Steffes

2012-10-12T06:39:44-07:00

I love that kind of posts! Next time you should ask for some proposals!

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I love that kind of posts! Next time you should ask for some proposals! 
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Scott Frangos

2012-10-14T19:51:59-07:00

Another great in-depth article based on solid research by SEOmoz -- thanks. What struck me in the replies you received was that few seemed to even pay attention to content above links and ranking at all -- especially regarding the ongoing Panda dance. In discussions at SEMpdx, and recently with a fellow on LinkedIn, I'm still finding a number of SEOs that just don't get it . Ranking is not the holy grail when visitors don't engage with content and go on to become prospects, leads and visitors.

ScottFrangos edited 2012-10-14T19:53:29-07:00
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Another great in-depth article based on solid research by SEOmoz -- thanks. What struck me in the replies you received was that few seemed to even pay attention to content above links and ranking at all -- especially regarding the ongoing Panda dance. In discussions at SEMpdx, and recently with a fellow on LinkedIn, I'm still finding a number of SEOs that just don't get it . Ranking is not the holy grail when visitors don't engage with content and go on to become prospects, leads and visitors. 
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Nigel Packer

2012-09-28T07:34:30-07:00

Doug pointed out an interesting aspect of the marketplace that is reflected across the board.

We receive endless daily emails from Indian and Asian companies offering all manner of duplicitous tricks to “get you to the top of Google”. These are targeted at spurious email addresses attached to our domain name (anything @ mycompany.co.uk).

If these are an example of the types of emails that are sent out, unsolicited, every day then it is not surprising that SEO gets a bad reputation. I am now receiving emails for purchase 1000 likes and get 10,000 followers for as little as $100. None of these are of any worth as they are evidently fictitious profiles.

We in the industry are aware of these tricks and ignore them, however, the vast majority of business owners who have been told in the local pub or bar by a “wiz with computers and all things like that” do not have the wherewithal to differentiate between a genuine skill set and the get rich quick scammer who will take their money give them what is advertised and not care professionally if it damages their reputation.

When business people have been burnt by these scammers they are wary of investing in suppliers who are skilled at what they do.

A recent client I was training explained that they were spending $8000 per month on SEO services and had been doing so for 12 months. I had examined their website and although they had been getting many thousands of visitors the return on investment was pitifully low. I explained that they could employ 2 trained people for the amount they were spending with the SEO Company who would be better at the job. Their site had dropped from the SERP’s front pages because of the deceptive practices being employed by the service provider.

It has been 6 months since starting that project and they are finally getting somewhere, fewer visitors but more conversions = more money in the bank. They have taken on one person and I am training them in ethical ways.

It is essentially an educational process. Make sure that the customer is aware of the need to set objectives, understands their customers and makes an informed decision on their strategy with the support of your knowledge and guidance.

The research you carried out on the project was well intentioned and gave some good results. I wonder what the results would have been like if you had selected the SEO companies from SERP page 100.

Kind regards

Nigel T Packer

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Doug pointed out an interesting aspect of the marketplace that is reflected across the board. We receive endless daily emails from Indian and Asian companies offering all manner of duplicitous tricks to “get you to the top of Google”. These are targeted at spurious email addresses attached to our domain name (anything @ mycompany.co.uk). If these are an example of the types of emails that are sent out, unsolicited, every day then it is not surprising that SEO gets a bad reputation. I am now receiving emails for purchase 1000 likes and get 10,000 followers for as little as $100. None of these are of any worth as they are evidently fictitious profiles. We in the industry are aware of these tricks and ignore them, however, the vast majority of business owners who have been told in the local pub or bar by a “wiz with computers and all things like that” do not have the wherewithal to differentiate between a genuine skill set and the get rich quick scammer who will take their money give them what is advertised and not care professionally if it damages their reputation. When business people have been burnt by these scammers they are wary of investing in suppliers who are skilled at what they do. A recent client I was training explained that they were spending $8000 per month on SEO services and had been doing so for 12 months. I had examined their website and although they had been getting many thousands of visitors the return on investment was pitifully low. I explained that they could employ 2 trained people for the amount they were spending with the SEO Company who would be better at the job. Their site had dropped from the SERP’s front pages because of the deceptive practices being employed by the service provider. It has been 6 months since starting that project and they are finally getting somewhere, fewer visitors but more conversions = more money in the bank. They have taken on one person and I am training them in ethical ways. It is essentially an educational process. Make sure that the customer is aware of the need to set objectives, understands their customers and makes an informed decision on their strategy with the support of your knowledge and guidance. The research you carried out on the project was well intentioned and gave some good results. I wonder what the results would have been like if you had selected the SEO companies from SERP page 100. Kind regards Nigel T Packer
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Steve Morgan

2012-09-26T01:13:02-07:00

What an interesting, fantastic study. Good work, guys!

While I understand (and to some extent agree with) some of the comments above, no study is going to be 100% perfect. I also think that choosing agencies that rank for "[location] seo" keywords is a good bet, because those are the one that small/local businesses are likely to find and it's small/local businesses who I believe to be more susceptible to dodgy practices (e.g. a large business may have dedicated marketers who can sniff out dodgy SEO practices, but a small business owner may not be able to do so and place his/her trust in a potentially dodgy agency).

Anyway, I would love to see follow-ups to this research, whether it be done by SEOmoz or someone else (a YouMoz submission, perhaps?):
- Some non-location-specific head terms, just to see if there are any differences, as some of the above comments suggest - e.g. "seo" / "search engine optimization" / "seo services"
- Those who send junk emails to people. Hat tip to DanielleFWM for mentioning this in an earlier comment. I can imagine that those who have to try and win work by sending unsolicited emails could paint a much darker ('blacker'?) side of the SEO industry...
- Other locations! What about the UK (where I'm from?) - e.g. "london seo" / "manchester seo" - or other major cities - e.g. "paris seo" / "new delhi seo" / "madrid seo" (in their native languages, of course!)
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What an interesting, fantastic study. Good work, guys! While I understand (and to some extent agree with) some of the comments above, no study is going to be 100% perfect. I also think that choosing agencies that rank for "[location] seo" keywords is a good bet, because those are the one that small/local businesses are likely to find and it's small/local businesses who I believe to be more susceptible to dodgy practices (e.g. a large business may have dedicated marketers who can sniff out dodgy SEO practices, but a small business owner may not be able to do so and place his/her trust in a potentially dodgy agency). Anyway, I would love to see follow-ups to this research, whether it be done by SEOmoz or someone else (a YouMoz submission, perhaps?): <ul><li>Some non-location-specific head terms, just to see if there are any differences, as some of the above comments suggest - e.g. "seo" / "search engine optimization" / "seo services"</li> <li>Those who send junk emails to people. Hat tip to <a href="https://www.seomoz.org/users/profile/410077" rel="nofollow">DanielleFWM</a> for mentioning this in an earlier comment. I can imagine that those who have to try and win work by sending unsolicited emails could paint a much darker ('blacker'?) side of the SEO industry...</li> <li>Other locations! What about the UK (where I'm from?) - e.g. "london seo" / "manchester seo" - or other major cities - e.g. "paris seo" / "new delhi seo" / "madrid seo" (in their native languages, of course!)</li></ul>
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ksailam

2012-09-25T13:33:45-07:00

This article is fantastic. I really hope that everyone sends this out to a local mom and pop store which may be getting scammed by a so called SEO pro. I hate hearing stories about folks forking over $1k a month and getting virtually nothing in return.

If you anyone is interested, I would be more than happy to contribute more questions on how to snuff out SEO scam artists assuming you know nothing about SEO.

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This article is fantastic. I really hope that everyone sends this out to a local mom and pop store which may be getting scammed by a so called SEO pro. I hate hearing stories about folks forking over $1k a month and getting virtually nothing in return. If you anyone is interested, I would be more than happy to contribute more questions on how to snuff out SEO scam artists assuming you know nothing about SEO. 
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GuruBlogger

2012-09-25T13:20:49-07:00

Great write up and so very true! I just left a content marketing company that touts that they're on top of SEO... well they're not. I actually ran an SEO score tool on some of their articles that they write for small business... the KW Density was less than 2%!! So many out there that are jokes.

It is also entertaining to see companies advertising SEO when they don't have a blog and the front page is under optimized!

GuruBlogger edited 2012-09-25T13:21:06-07:00
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Great write up and so very true! I just left a content marketing company that touts that they're on top of SEO... well they're not. I actually ran an SEO score tool on some of their articles that they write for small business... the KW Density was less than 2%!! So many out there that are jokes. It is also entertaining to see companies advertising SEO when they don't have a blog and the front page is under optimized!
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Moosa Hemani

2012-09-25T13:42:06-07:00

Glad that good amount of people are replying to the emails with proper research and keeping the ethics in mind… which was not really a case few years ago…

Most agencies you have targeted are US based which in my opinion is considered to be the hub for SEO activities… how about running the same kind of undercover test to agencies from different part of the world including India and my country Pakistan… I am not sure about the results but this will be a good way to find out the rate of ethical agencies around the world…

Just a piece of suggestion.

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Glad that good amount of people are replying to the emails with proper research and keeping the ethics in mind… which was not really a case few years ago… Most agencies you have targeted are US based which in my opinion is considered to be the hub for SEO activities… how about running the same kind of undercover test to agencies from different part of the world including India and my country Pakistan… I am not sure about the results but this will be a good way to find out the rate of ethical agencies around the world… Just a piece of suggestion.
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- Asad Memon
 
 2012-09-26T03:46:48-07:00
 
 Ha. Those responses would surely be interesting! :)
 
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 Ha. Those responses would surely be interesting! :)
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Marisa Brayman

2012-09-25T13:55:25-07:00

I was just thinking: I wonder how different the results would have been if you'd conducted this study just six months ago, pre-penguin. SEOs have no other choice but to be legit at this point. If they're not, they must be completely out of the loop of the latest SEO news and algorithm changes.

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I was just thinking: I wonder how different the results would have been if you'd conducted this study just six months ago, pre-penguin. SEOs have no other choice but to be legit at this point. If they're not, they must be completely out of the loop of the latest SEO news and algorithm changes. 
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George Andrews

2012-09-25T14:09:26-07:00

Very interesting concept and I enjoyed reading the responses.

I would answer the domain name question differently than most.

Yes, I totally agree that domain name will not matter for SEO. But I think you leave a number of potential visitors on the table if you don't own the main TLDs for your domain name/brand (e.g. seomoz.com, seomoz.net, seomoz.org, etc...). I would stick to .com and .org in this day and age, mainly to make sure I don't lose visitors to the .com version of the domain name. But many also choose to include .net and others when they are protecting their brand.

Great post and kudos to the winners!

GeorgeAndrews edited 2012-09-25T14:11:16-07:00
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Very interesting concept and I enjoyed reading the responses. I would answer the domain name question differently than most. Yes, I totally agree that domain name will not matter for SEO. But I think you leave a number of potential visitors on the table if you don't own the main TLDs for your domain name/brand (e.g. seomoz.com, seomoz.net, seomoz.org, etc...). I would stick to .com and .org in this day and age, mainly to make sure I don't lose visitors to the .com version of the domain name. But many also choose to include .net and others when they are protecting their brand. Great post and kudos to the winners!
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Caleb Donegan

2012-09-25T13:11:33-07:00

Fantastic article! The industry is so clouded with sketchy business propositions and shady techniques, it is great to see that the companies ranking well in the industry are both reputable and intelligent about SEO. As someone who works in the industry, I appreciate the positive spin on SEO consultants that has in many instances become difficult to find.

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Fantastic article! The industry is so clouded with sketchy business propositions and shady techniques, it is great to see that the companies ranking well in the industry are both reputable and intelligent about SEO. As someone who works in the industry, I appreciate the positive spin on SEO consultants that has in many instances become difficult to find.
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Joffrey Drummond

2012-09-25T13:03:57-07:00

If’s that’s not a true indicator of an industry with ethically-driven motivations from the majority, I’m not sure what is.

Unethical SEO companies are not ranking for keywords they are email blasting victims.

They are lurking on forums to quickly answer questions of victims.

They are not in the SERPS.

[edited for formatting only]

KeriMorgret edited 2012-09-25T13:07:24-07:00
2 1

If’s that’s not a true indicator of an industry with ethically-driven motivations from the majority, I’m not sure what is. Unethical SEO companies are not ranking for keywords they are email blasting victims. They are lurking on forums to quickly answer questions of victims. They are not in the SERPS. [edited for formatting only] 
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Hannah Marr

2012-09-25T11:27:56-07:00

Amazing!!

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Amazing!!
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Michael David

2012-09-25T11:51:14-07:00

This is epic awesomeness. Really interesting stuff.

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This is epic awesomeness. Really interesting stuff.
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Elizabeth Fee

2012-09-25T12:23:30-07:00

Awesome read! I am curious... did anyone call those who would only provide an answer over the phone? It would be more or less interesting to hear what they may have had to say... although I suspect a sales pitch to just "pick" them would have been result.

In any case, for someone who is relatively new to the SEO world and trying to navigate my own business to ensure that I provide others with ethical, helpful, and quality SEO advice, studies like this certainly give me greater confidence in my continuing education of SEO from others more advanced. Of course, SEOmoz is always the first place I look to for guidance!

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Awesome read! I am curious... did anyone call those who would only provide an answer over the phone? It would be more or less interesting to hear what they may have had to say... although I suspect a sales pitch to just "pick" them would have been result. In any case, for someone who is relatively new to the SEO world and trying to navigate my own business to ensure that I provide others with ethical, helpful, and quality SEO advice, studies like this certainly give me greater confidence in my continuing education of SEO from others more advanced. Of course, SEOmoz is always the first place I look to for guidance!
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- Ashley Sefferman
 
 2012-09-25T13:31:12-07:00
 
 Thanks for the kind words, Elizabeth! We decided early on in the study that we would keep our communication with agencies online-only, so we did not converse or use data from any responders that would only provide answers over the phone. I hope that you found the study responses useful :)
 
 AshleySefferman edited 2012-09-25T15:11:29-07:00
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 Thanks for the kind words, Elizabeth! We decided early on in the study that we would keep our communication with agencies online-only, so we did not converse or use data from any responders that would only provide answers over the phone. I hope that you found the study responses useful :) 
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Bethany Davidson

2012-09-25T12:34:08-07:00

I agree this was simply outstanding! Great work, Ashley!

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I agree this was simply outstanding! Great work, Ashley! 
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Rabie Ibrahim

2012-09-25T12:47:14-07:00

Great article , Thanks Ashley & SEOmoz

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 Great article , Thanks Ashley & SEOmoz
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SanketPatel

2012-09-26T04:03:53-07:00

Ya still many people struggled with setting standards of quality, You have choose perfect topic for analysis. your case study is really nice. One thumbs up for your deep study and for your research.

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Ya still many people struggled with setting standards of quality, You have choose perfect topic for analysis. your case study is really nice. One thumbs up for your deep study and for your research. 
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RaeLaga

2012-09-25T14:24:17-07:00

I'm trying to figure out the value of a SEO contractor and I'm looking for the answers to these type questions:

What's the page worth for an SEO contractor creating new content?
What is the Incremental value of unique visitors?
For a SEO pay for performance contractor, what's the value of a new page of content?

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I'm trying to figure out the value of a SEO contractor and I'm looking for the answers to these type questions: What's the page worth for an SEO contractor creating new content? What is the Incremental value of unique visitors? For a SEO pay for performance contractor, what's the value of a new page of content? 
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- Dave Davies
 
 2012-09-25T16:45:25-07:00
 
 Unfortunately this is a VERY tough question to answer without more details (read: impossible). It would depend on:
 - what type of content?
 - what is the purpose of the content?
 - who are these visitors? (i.e. targeted conversion-oriented or information seekers)
 - how does the content convert?
 - how much content is being written?
 - are there other services being included by the contractor?
 - etc.
 I imagine most people reading this post (and jump in if you think I'm wrong) won't be able to give a solid answer without knowing the full details. At least, not anyone I'd personally trust.
 
 2 0
 Unfortunately this is a VERY tough question to answer without more details (read: impossible). It would depend on: <ul><li>what type of content?</li><li>what is the purpose of the content?</li><li>who are these visitors? (i.e. targeted conversion-oriented or information seekers)</li><li>how does the content convert?</li><li>how much content is being written?</li><li>are there other services being included by the contractor?</li><li>etc.</li></ul> I imagine most people reading this post (and jump in if you think I'm wrong) won't be able to give a solid answer without knowing the full details. At least, not anyone I'd personally trust. 
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 - RaeLaga
 
 2012-09-26T11:54:14-07:00
 
 what type of content? Articles mostly, landing pages, photos, egreetings,
 
 what is the purpose of the content? For SEO improvement, traffic and ultimately ecommerce transactions. It is an e-tailer.
 
 who are these visitors? (i.e. targeted conversion-oriented or information seekers) We hope new customers that will buy something, but also avid for the sport.
 
 how does the content convert? Let’s say 1%
 
 how much content is being written? We are looking to create a formula. Brainstorm: create 100 pages
 
 are there other services being included by the contractor? Yes, but primarily stemming from some new original content of articles, news releases, landing pages. Is there a formula to say that a new page is worth $____ on a pay for performance deal, and that a new visitor is worth $___ (take the 1% and multiple by average order size and that is a start). Therefore, each new page of content is worth $___ each. How much is the SEO value or new visitor value of each page worth? How much should I ask for EACH page I create? Of course there is a long-term value of each page as it helps with page rank, links and new traffic. I need a starting place for the value of each page or prediction of new traffic based on that created content page.
 Does that help?
 
 I need to try to figure out some formulas, but everything is so theoretical I'm having issues!!! Any geniuses that can help me?
 
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 <ul><li><ul><li>what type of content? Articles mostly, landing pages, photos, egreetings,</li> <li>what is the purpose of the content? For SEO improvement, traffic and ultimately ecommerce transactions. It is an e-tailer.</li> <li>who are these visitors? (i.e. targeted conversion-oriented or information seekers) We hope new customers that will buy something, but also avid for the sport.</li> <li>how does the content convert? Let’s say 1%</li> <li>how much content is being written? We are looking to create a formula. Brainstorm: create 100 pages</li> <li>are there other services being included by the contractor? Yes, but primarily stemming from some new original content of articles, news releases, landing pages. Is there a formula to say that a new page is worth $____ on a pay for performance deal, and that a new visitor is worth $___ (take the 1% and multiple by average order size and that is a start). Therefore, each new page of content is worth $___ each. How much is the SEO value or new visitor value of each page worth? How much should I ask for EACH page I create? Of course there is a long-term value of each page as it helps with page rank, links and new traffic. I need a starting place for the value of each page or prediction of new traffic based on that created content page.</li><li>Does that help?</li></ul></li></ul> I need to try to figure out some formulas, but everything is so theoretical I'm having issues!!! Any geniuses that can help me?
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 - Dave Davies
 
 2012-09-27T09:44:44-07:00
 
 Unfortunately I'm away from the office (speaking at Digital World Expo to be specific) but would be happy to look into this when I'm back. If you want to email me - I'll look into it for you. :)
 
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 Unfortunately I'm away from the office (speaking at Digital World Expo to be specific) but would be happy to look into this when I'm back. If you want to email me - I'll look into it for you. :)
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TankNewMedia

2012-09-25T15:34:19-07:00

Hi Ashley,

I'm curious how you guys chose Overland Park, KS as one of the locations. I'm based in Overland Park...and most people always just choose Kanas City.

Great info!

John

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Hi Ashley, I'm curious how you guys chose Overland Park, KS as one of the locations. I'm based in Overland Park...and most people always just choose Kanas City. Great info! John
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- Ruth Burr Reedy
 
 2012-09-26T11:36:08-07:00
 
 Hi John,
 
 We wanted to select a mixture of large and medium-sized cities, so we compiled a list of top cities by population and then a second list of top cities by population with populations under 500K. Then we used Google Insights for Search to narrow the lists down to cities that actually have at least some search volume for the given keywords.
 
 1 0
 
 Hi John, We wanted to select a mixture of large and medium-sized cities, so we compiled a list of top cities by population and then a second list of top cities by population with populations under 500K. Then we used Google Insights for Search to narrow the lists down to cities that actually have at least some search volume for the given keywords.
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Steven Macdonald

2012-09-26T02:23:59-07:00

Excellent article Ashley, well researched and it's great to see the majority of responses were positive. Good news for those bashing the SEO industry.

Steven_Macdonald edited 2012-09-26T02:24:12-07:00
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Excellent article Ashley, well researched and it's great to see the majority of responses were positive. Good news for those bashing the SEO industry. 
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Paweł Korniak

2012-09-26T03:38:37-07:00

Great recognition :)

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Great recognition :) 
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James Wittering

2012-09-26T03:54:40-07:00

Fantastic project. Good PR for us and slap on the bottom for those who insist in peddling poor advice.

Looking forward to any sexy little infographic you wish to share!

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Fantastic project. Good PR for us and slap on the bottom for those who insist in peddling poor advice. Looking forward to any sexy little infographic you wish to share!
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SEMNinja93

2012-09-26T00:39:33-07:00

I do recommend different TLD's for specific targeting of different countries, based on language!

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I do recommend different TLD's for specific targeting of different countries, based on language!
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EQ-Richie

2012-09-25T11:34:46-07:00

Excellent article. Thank you for sharing your results.

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Excellent article. Thank you for sharing your results. 
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Scott Redgate

2012-09-25T16:04:58-07:00

Awesome study!!!

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Awesome study!!!
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Joel Rivera

2012-09-25T16:56:05-07:00

This was a great idea. I've been asking a bunch of experts about how to get into the 7 pack of google and I've received so many different opinions and have tried what makes sense and left alone what doesn't. At the end of the day no luck. Oh well. I'll keep on trying since I know SEO takes time. But thanks for this study, it highlights a lot.

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This was a great idea. I've been asking a bunch of experts about how to get into the 7 pack of google and I've received so many different opinions and have tried what makes sense and left alone what doesn't. At the end of the day no luck. Oh well. I'll keep on trying since I know SEO takes time. But thanks for this study, it highlights a lot.
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Joel Rivera

2012-09-25T17:14:17-07:00

I wonder who is the best SEO in NY

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I wonder who is the best SEO in NY
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- Avishek prakash SEO Expert
 
 2016-01-23T06:27:36-08:00
 
 search Abhishek prakash #SEO Expert, #SEO Consultant,india or visit Avishek.asia
 
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 search Abhishek prakash #SEO Expert, #SEO Consultant,india or visit Avishek.asia
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René Hansen

2012-09-25T23:59:08-07:00

Great undercover mission! Nice to see that a great deal of SEO companies display very similar treatment of current SEO problems.

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Great undercover mission! Nice to see that a great deal of SEO companies display very similar treatment of current SEO problems.
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mohammadrazaseo

2012-09-29T07:45:45-07:00

Great Articles i like wow

1 1

Great Articles i like wow 
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Vinod Duvasi

2012-09-25T12:26:08-07:00

Simply Outstanding!!!!

1 1

Simply Outstanding!!!! 
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Phil Gregory

2012-09-26T01:50:32-07:00

I'm not really sure what the benefit of this whole survey was, except perhaps to pull a bunch of SEO's here to read the article? We could have been working , earning money for our companies. :D

we all know there are plenty of ego inflated fools out there, let them do what they do. I know that so long as I'm doing the very best by my clients, I'm not concerned with the so called ninja's.

Only one thing matters at the end of the day. RESULTS

PhilGregory edited 2012-10-12T06:17:30-07:00
1 2

I'm not really sure what the benefit of this whole survey was, except perhaps to pull a bunch of SEO's here to read the article? We could have been working , earning money for our companies. :D we all know there are plenty of ego inflated fools out there, let them do what they do. I know that so long as I'm doing the very best by my clients, I'm not concerned with the so called ninja's. Only one thing matters at the end of the day. RESULTS 
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- jennita
 
 2012-09-26T15:42:07-07:00
 
 We ran this test/survey in response to one done that showed the opposite. We were intrigued by it and decided to run our own test.
 
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 We ran this test/survey in response to one done that showed the opposite. We were intrigued by it and decided to run our own test. 
 Cancel
 - Phil Gregory
 
 2012-10-12T06:21:51-07:00
 
 The point I was trying to make is that, whilst it's an interesting observation, it's a little distracting. I came on moz today to see the great stuff you guys do and found my comment edited on one thread.
 I'm never going to be a fan boy for the sake of it. I recognise quality material and always give credit where it's due. but I don't think it's right that people essentially follow you around the board, disapproving of dissent. I like what SEOmoz do, but you are not immune from making mistakes, publishing pointless articles or packing videos with cutesy fluff, just to get feedback. Surely we have a right to recognise that and pass comment?
 
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 The point I was trying to make is that, whilst it's an interesting observation, it's a little distracting. I came on moz today to see the great stuff you guys do and found my comment edited on one thread. I'm never going to be a fan boy for the sake of it. I recognise quality material and always give credit where it's due. but I don't think it's right that people essentially follow you around the board, disapproving of dissent. I like what SEOmoz do, but you are not immune from making mistakes, publishing pointless articles or packing videos with cutesy fluff, just to get feedback. Surely we have a right to recognise that and pass comment?
 Cancel
Liang Chen

2012-09-26T01:48:32-07:00

Quote: " Three clever dudes (Mark Kennedy from SEOM Interactive, Larry Chrzan from Blue Horseradish, and Brady Ware from Softway Solutions) quickly figured out SEOmoz was behind the project,"

Objection:) With all due respect, I just feel they could've done more though. Content is at the core of all things SEO, with such a brilliant opportunity presented to them, they missed the opportunity to provide the content and earn recognition.

LiangChen edited 2013-01-17T13:57:37-08:00
1 4

Quote: " Three clever dudes (Mark Kennedy from SEOM Interactive, Larry Chrzan from Blue Horseradish, and Brady Ware from Softway Solutions) quickly figured out SEOmoz was behind the project," Objection:) With all due respect, I just feel they could've done more though. Content is at the core of all things SEO, with such a brilliant opportunity presented to them, they missed the opportunity to provide the content and earn recognition.
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- jennita
 
 2012-09-26T15:43:58-07:00
 
 That seems a bit slimy to do... no?
 
 2 2
 
 That seems a bit slimy to do... no? 
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 - Liang Chen
 
 2012-09-28T01:58:39-07:00
 
 slimy maybe depend on what angle you look at it. Simply because what could been offered would've represented value to the charity org, isn't it? And with or without the knowledge of SEOmoz's involvement, such an response will be and should be provided anyway. So why not provide your best answers? I'd do this even knowing it was a competitor trying to test our service/knowledge, let along a neutral third party like SEOmoz.
 
 Maybe shouldn't pretend didn't know it was SEOmoz, but still should've provided answers.
 
 LiangChen edited 2012-09-28T04:10:14-07:00
 1 0
 
 slimy maybe depend on what angle you look at it. Simply because what could been offered would've represented value to the charity org, isn't it? And with or without the knowledge of SEOmoz's involvement, such an response will be and should be provided anyway. So why not provide your best answers? I'd do this even knowing it was a competitor trying to test our service/knowledge, let along a neutral third party like SEOmoz. Maybe shouldn't pretend didn't know it was SEOmoz, but still should've provided answers.
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JohnA10

2012-09-25T12:12:58-07:00

SEO is like religion, at the end, nobody has the truth.

1 4

SEO is like religion, at the end, nobody has the truth.
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- jeffbaker
 
 2012-09-25T16:13:59-07:00
 
 I have to disagree... because if SEO is like religion, then Matt Cutts is like God. And I don't feel comfortable making that association. ;)
 
 P.S. I am not one of the people who placed a thumbs down on your comment.
 
 3 0
 
 I have to disagree... because if SEO is like religion, then Matt Cutts is like God. And I don't feel comfortable making that association. ;) P.S. I am not one of the people who placed a thumbs down on your comment. 
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How Many SEO Consultants Actually Know What They're Talking About?

Enter: The PEPS Project

The project design

Case study overview

The (SEO) Fab Five

And the winner is...

The current state of SEO consultants

Comments 167

Enter: The PEPS Project

The project design

Case study overview

The (SEO) Fab Five

And the winner is...

The current state of SEO consultants

Comments 167

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