It's been a few weeks since I last posted a headsmacker, but this topic has been begging for some exposure. Recently we've worked with some fellow SEOs who've felt the harsh constraint of overly eager, impatient management. Their campaigns followed solid tactics, stuck to best practices and even had some smart, creative elements, but after a month of middling results, the execs requested that our friends move on to "higher ROI projects."
To be fair, I'm an executive myself (chief something-or-other, I think), so I understand the need for fast, visible results. However, SEO doesn't function in this fashion - never has, and I doubt it ever will. Rare, in fact, are the sites who can make sweeping changes, launch viral content, start some link building campaigns and see immediate success. Why? Lots of reasons:
- The engines need time to re-crawl your site. For a lucky few, this might take only days or a couple weeks, but for many large sites and even for smaller sites that aren't terrificly high on Google's "must crawl" list, we've seen as much as 3-4 months pass before a site's pages are fully updated.
- The engines have to crawl all your link partners, too! If you've recently launched some great widgets or viral material or a new content licensing system, it's going to be a solid wait before you experience the full impact of that work.
- The algorithms reward patience. Even if the engines start to see those links right away, it might be a few weeks or months before the algorithm rewards the full weight and heft of their existence. Why? Because search engines learned years ago that manipulative link building is often temporary, while high quality links stand the test of time. This issue is particularly true of new domains (or newly moved domains), so be aware that you might have to earn some trust over time before you feel all the positive ranking impacts of links.
Want a great example? Remember our SEO Expert Quiz? In the first week after launch, we saw hundreds of new links pointing to that page, almost all with the anchor text "SEO Expert" included. But guess what? It took almost 6 weeks before we climbed the rankings ladder to page 1 for the query SEO Expert (at Google, at least - Yahoo! had us ranking there much faster, though I've seen other examples where they lag behind, too). - It takes time to attract links. Last, but not least, on our list of reasons is the growth of links themselves. If you've just started new content, design and promotion strategies to attract links, you not only need time for those campaigns to reach their targets, you need to wait for the links to start rolling in (and then get counted by the engines). This can be a long, tough slog, and understandably, a lot of site owners and SEOs give up without ever getting the full benefit of their work.
Patience can be a challenging quality to find in a manager, particularly in nervous economic times. Just remember - if you're spending money on PPC, which receives something between 12-20% of the clicks on the SERPs, those organic listings can produce a lot of value. Give your SEOs and your campaigns a minimum of 3-4 months to show positive effects and make sure you watch total search referrals (not just rankings for your pet keyword search phrases). Once you start to see increased traffic from the engines for long tail and related phrases, you know you're on the right path.
"Not far. Yoda not far. Patience. Soon you will be with him."
Now if I could just take my own advice and settle my nerves for another 5 days until our big launch...
This is a point I'm constantly working to hammer home in managing my clients' expectations. SEO is a long-term solution. That doesn't mean contracts need to be long-term - a one-time optimization project is suitable for many websites - but I like to keep them looking 5-6 months out for results.
It's a tough sell sometimes - even when some people say "ok, I understand," two months later when they're signing a check and see no increase in traffic they understandably want to ask some questions.
It's all really about definining success as best you can before the campaign is started, which should include setting specific goals. During the goals discussion is the best time to bring up the tendency for the lag in results. Having it in writing in your proposal/contract is a no-brainer, but it's more important to manage the client's expectations and prevent their potential disappointment.
MikeTek said: "SEO is a long-term solution. That doesn't mean contracts need to be long-term - a one-time optimization project is suitable for many websites - but I like to keep them looking 5-6 months out for results."
I think this is a good point. Even the shorter SEO projects have some long term benefits that may be of special interest to the client. As an example, the process of optimizing their site gets them thinking about who their web audience is, how to approach them and what keywords are most effective. These can sometimes translate into their offline marketing collateral and generally help steer where they want to go. This is obviously all on top of the progress made with increased visitor traffic, better search engine listings and (if you're doing a good job) increased conversion rates, which are the results that demand some patience. My point is, highlighting other benefits and linking SEO efforts into the wider picture may be a better way of getting clients to understand.
Another great article Rand.
I've got to say, I deal with this quite frequently. Often times CEO's expect immediate results in even the most challenging/congested markets. I know, as I deal with it on a daily basis. Being overeager will not only affect your progress in the long run (mainly due to the fact that the person doing SEO for you will just get angry and annoyed), but it will also affect the opinion of the non-educated higher-ups, which could result negatively and lead to the ol’ abandon the SEO ship.
I make it a point to educate all prospective clients using examples of other sites that I’ve worked with. Setting realistic expectations over time is key. I know personally, as a friend of mine was hired to work with a real estate firm, who not 2 weeks later, was given the boot because “progress was not made”. Ridiculous considering the market, but again, you need to set realistic expectations and make sure that your employer understands them to the fullest extent. Every niche is different, so time will always vary.
I hope clients would understand this issue a little more. I have clients who think that if I make changes in their titles, content or anywhere in the site they are going to wake up the next day on the first page of google and yahoo.thanks for the post
Thanks a million for this post Rand.
I mailed this link to the entire account managment and department management. Each and everyone replied saying that it hit home with each of them.
I think that how the service is sold and explained in the initial stages is key in getting them to understand the process involved from the stages of implementation to Search Engines evaluating and then to results.
Our managment staff do not read this blog or any other as a matter a of fact, but reading all the comments made them see that these are not just issues we face here in South Africa but universal issues that any SEO company is challenged with.
This post certainly got management off my back, so now I can breathe a bit easier.
Thanks again!
This is exactly why I just advised my company to stop selling monthly SEO, which they had done while I was working out of the office for a bit, and sell SEO no more often than quarterly.
A new office manager had come in while I was working out of the office a few months back (finishing up my degree) and thought she knew something about SEO. She had said she would take on the monthly SEO updates and no one questioned her. After her leaving the company abruptly last month, I was trying to argue that we should only sell quarterly and not monthly.
"Well, the monthly SEO is doing so well! Every month the traffic and rankings have improved!" I went in to see that nothing had been changed since my initial optimization and these were natural, organic increases that could be noticed best with time and patience. I got my way and now only have to do quarterly updates. Sure, algorithms and keyword research can fluctuate on a monthly basis, but if you're reoptimizing a site every month, you won't have time to see what works and what doesn't.
Ugh! I've seen a LOT of this myself. I couldn't agree more - the monthly SEO packages have got to go.
The worst I've seen is when a site is built, goes live and is left alone - and, shamefully, the agency, who sold the client a "monthly SEO" package, watches the traffic naturally building and takes full credit when the client starts asking questions. "Look at your traffic - it's gone up non-stop!" Meanwhile there hasn't been a single edit/update in six months or more. This is the worst of the worst, and I'm sorry to say I've seen it dozens of times.
Wait a second - if the SEO firm made the recommended changes and did all the work, and now every month, the site is getting more and more search traffic, aren't they technically responsible? Shouldn't they be able to take that credit? I guess from a billing standpoint, it might seem a little strange, but this is how media and advertising contracts have been forever. An ad agency designs creative, puts in all the upfront work, places the ad, and for as long as the client uses that creative, they pay the agency 15%. For PPC this same format holds true.
Now granted, in SEO, a lot of companies (including SEOmoz), charge for the consulting and the work as we do it, and don't usually attach a retainer unless ongoing work is required, but the scenario you describe sounds like the client might actually be getting a safer play - they pay over the months so long as the work the SEO did is giving positive results. If the SEO didn't do their job, they can expect a quick cancellation.
There's probably more to this, but I just wanted to point out that not every SEO firm who does work upfront, then charges monthly and doesn't continue making changes is evil or a swindler. It can be an honest, solid business model.
I think maybe I wasn't clear enough in what I was describing. Here's the scenario I'm talking about:
I certainly see no problem in a monthly billing model - but the scenario I've seen dozens of times is one in which the client is being misled.
Furthermore, I've seen this when the agency was contracted for monthly optimization but did not build the site. Again, did nothing, sat back and took credit in the end for a natural growth in links and traffic.
It is all about misrepresentation in this case. As cryptic a business as SEO may seem to the clients, the last thing we need to do is lead them into thinking we're doing something every month when we're not. If reputable SEO companies want to charge on a retainer, that's cool, as long as they're not lying about the actual work being done.
If the traffic and rankings are improving every month from the first optimization, let your client know that that's just how damn good you are. Charging monthly or quarterly without making changes (just based on great, consequent, natural increases from the first job) would be very very hard for people to understand, which is why, as Rand said, most SEO companies don't attach a retainer.
It's hard enough for people to understand what they're paying for in the first place.
wow. those sound like really obtuse clients. We always work on a monthly fee because that's how it fits in with the clients' budgets but we show them results and move up in the rankings. We also create content to broaden the long tail and work on the code when we first start. If a client is paying for a company to do nothing to their site, that's really the fault of the client and they should educate themselves before spending money. Though the SEOs your talking about are probably real A-holes.
Rand is right about ad firms. I worked at a place once paying $25,000 a month to their ad agency for doing nothing. Anything they did was billed extra. It would be nice if SEOs could get one of these retainer deals but we actually have to work for a living :)
Great job mentionning all those different points.
However, not every client is as patient as a SEO consultant, who's happy having climbed from position 87 to 62 in few weeks. Every client client understands that being onpage 1 is very important, and is just like a child on the 24th of December: they just CAN'T wait!
Okay, fair enough.
Usually, with all the talk of "this is going to take time," there are things that we can make pop pretty fast.
Every case is a little different but even a brand new site can rank well for some of the long tail combinations fairly quickly and if we start directing traffic and creating buzz, they can usually hang around while you work on the more competitive stuff ;)
Great article. Maybe because I had a client reduce their budget this month for the same reason you mentioned. It's tough to tell a business owner that it will be coming soon when they're paying for a service every month. I think that's one of the hardest things about selling and maintaining SEO. Everyone says yes when you explain it to them but by about month 3 they're not happy with a 98 place increase because they're still at #65 and are getting no ROI. Time and time again, Yoda is right. By month 4 -6 all is looking great. The trick is keeping the client happy while they wait....
same happening with me as one of my client start asking me three week after launch where we are why over competitor are there and we ar not even though i explain them , look it is going to take some time before you start coming there and the fact that this website is totally new, i think this is great article from rand like always
Rand,
I recently had a situation where I was reminded of waiting for the engines. I've been blessed with a network of sites that get crawled from Googlebot every few minutes and, because of that, I get spoiled with seeing immediate results when changes are made.
Over the past weekend I started working away on 'Paul Newman dead' keyphrase. As I worked I saw nothing. So I went more extreme and more extreme thinking that perhaps the competition was too intense. After 4 hours of consolidating duplicate content, establishing proper URLs, siloing content, nofollowing links that weren't pertinent to the goal, and most importantly rewriting title tags, h tags, and anchor text . . . I walked away from the laptops feeling defeated. Afterall, I had done the same thing for another keyphrase (not mentioning as I don't want SEOmoz ranking for it, paul newman dead isn't a big deal anymore) just two weeks ago and moved from 35 to 8 in the same amount of time. But this time . . . not more than a bump of 5 and still stuck on the third page of Google.
The next morning I woke up, rolled over, rubbed my eyes, opened my laptop, and typed in 'paul newman dead'. Sing praises . . . #1 in Web. Sweet!!
Why'd it take longer? All of the sites that linked to the duplicate content pages that I then 301'd to the targetted page had to be respidered. I didn't take that into consideration. As time has continued on I'm sure more pages have been respidered and the page rank reassociated from the duplicate content page to the targetted URL. Further strengthening our position as #1 for 'paul newman dead'.
Depressing note: The general public ended up searching mainly for 'paul newman'. Which was contrary to what happened for previous scenarios with celebrity deaths. Sigh . . . in the end, SEO is still a little bit about luck (or lack thereof in this case).
This is a perfect example of why patience is a true virtue in SEO.
Other depressing note: Paul Newman died.
Completely agree. The biggest problem I find is trying to convince your customers that you need to wait for results.
Everyone expects things to be instant
I think many 'seo experts' have a nice escape route by making it a general assumption that it can take months to get rankings.
Generally I do not find that to be the case at all, it simply depends on the target phrases for a start.
For new sites they should really be optimised for those longer tail and location orientated phrases which im sure in a great number of instances will bring results within weeks, certainly not 6 months.
If you are givin this advise and building a website slowly and surely in this manner then it is likely to be a success from your clients perspective because you would have stated this goal path.
Im not saying it will bring in ten thousand sales a month but that is another issuae all together. There should be a structure and obtainable goals for the clients, not 'well, we are doing it correctly for tough phrases, we will see if google likes it in 3 to 6 months time.
If you are doing it this way then in my opinion you are not doing the correct job for the client in 90% of cases. Lets face it, most of the seo work done out there is not for blue chip corporates.
However.. having said all that, yes of course I do agree that when there are quite large changes or campaigns, depending on various circumstances, the time of really seeing the success (or not) can vary in time.
If google is doing its job correctly, which most of us agree it does better than most in most areas, then that should never take 6 months either.
I've made the mistake of being too impatient. End up not knowing what caused what. Have to be careful about "fresh content."
This is a great post for a couple of reasons. First because, again, Rand delivers a great 'Headsmacking' idea. Second is more personal. I'm getting read to start a new project (for my school and their website) and I'll plan on pointing them to this post when it comes time to evaluate the results of the project. This is an important issue to consider especially in a time when patience is dwindling. These things sometimes, take....time. Especially in my case when conversion is definitely not instantenous!
True. SEO process in general is slow and resembles more witch-craft or art than programming. Waiting for search engines to do their math in sometimes painfully slow...
Jack https://seoapplied.blogspot.com/
It just reminded of the old saying... Slow and steady wins the race... :)
Absolutely right on the money...
When I first started SEO, it left me disgusted to see my site not get crawled for days together..
And even after link building and promotion, the effect of it was nowhere to be seen...
However, it has been showing results off late and there has been an improvement in the rankings..
Quite rightly said.. (In SEO) Patience is a virtue...
Great article. look it is going to take some time before you start coming there and the fact that this website is totally new, i think this is great article from rand like always
might print this post when I meet with clients about SEO. also, liked the yoda image at the end...nice effect!
What am opportune topic.
I just had this conversation yesterday concerning a set of '14 day old' internal campaigns in a highly competitive market.
By the way, this is my first post here. I've been reading religiously, but had not contributed till now. Thank you for the opportunity.
Waiting for sites who have inbound links to get crawled is another reason to pay close attention to your link building efforts.
How targeted are your LB campaigns? Do you pay attention to how often those sites are adding new content? How often are they crawled? If you keep a check list of what to look for when targeting sites for links, these would be good additions. It will help you gauge the speed your inbound links will benefit your site.
Took me several months of diligently following SEOmoz's advice before I saw results, but the SE hits have been climbing since then. Thanks for everything :).
One of the first things we tell potential clients inquiring about our SEO services is that "SEO is a walking race" - I've heard it and said it so many times that my wife claims I've said it in my sleep!
But I'm starting to realize that the saying, although effective at communicating the slow pace of SEO, is somewhat misleading. A race has a start and a finish line, whereas SEO is an ongoing process without ending.
Ayone care to offer their analogies?
Good solid advice here. It's fair to say that long wait times and the difficulty in being able to measure what exact effect a particular change or action has had is one of the most frustrating and difficult parts of SEO.
So much so, this is probably why many people consider the industry as 'magic wizardry' being performed!
I must ask though what you mean by content licensing system? I was thinking of opening up an API system to allow other sites to syndicate some of my content - however won't Google penalise for duplicated content? To get around that I could insist on using IFRAME's, but then theres the inverse problem - no countable link back to my site (as it's within my IFRAME on my own domain).
Hmm...
This is so true, and one of the absolute hardest things to get both clients and "upper management" to understand. Depsite the fact that prior to taking on any new clients, we marketing people explain clearly that it takes time, explain why/how, and even outline such details in proposals and contracts. Regardless, some clients get extremely impatient and a few have even been combative over this issue. Same goes for management... There have been meetings with them to explain the process in granular detail and information/resources posted to the intranet and a couple of them are so thick headed that they make my job unpleasant from time to time.
Alas, such is my world.
Thanks for this post. I have bookmarked it to show clients when they undoubtedly ask the big question all SEOs dread.
Pavelmaha - good point, but I'm sure I'm safe in saying that most clients still ask about this even after you mention that it takes time (more than once...).
Wouldn't it be wise to mention before you start the campaign that "it takes time"?
Absolutely - creating expectations is a huge part of putting together a successful contract (or for in-house SEOs, prepping for a successful project). However, I feel it's really important to also include the WHYS behind the wait. Hopefully, some of the points above can help serve as ammunition for those cases.
Great point. Managing expectations up front with not just what to expect, but why to expect it has really helped me in working with clients and holding their hand through any business process, and especially SEO work that involves time, waiting and patience. But when that reindexing comes through, what a hero you are! :o)
Whoops, I echoed the same sentiment in my comment.
*Note To Self: Always read comments first and make sure you're not regurgitating someone else’s thoughts.
Good point, and more good points to back it up... actually, I've just begun noticing results for SEO work I did back in January. It really does take time for the effects to kick in, but the great thing is that they usually keep growing once you get over that crest...
Great post (you must be tired of hearing this!)
Managing expectations is key to succeed in building loyal customers (and a profitable brand).
Remember: Quality = experienced results divided by expectations
If that equation is less than 1.0 you're in trouble.
So having a good and honest sales pitch where you explain that it will take 3-6 months before you see real results is a must.
(Then maybe you can sell eager customers on Google Adwords for a quick boost in traffic. )
Relevant all over - we do our own SEO and get more impatient with ourselves than we would with consultants. Probably because we do not really know what we are doing (meant to be a joke but may not be funny) and so have no idea of how fast or slow these things go.
But as an article it has caused us to re-evaluate why our rankings have improved so much over the last 6 months or so. All the backlinging grind suddenly seems relevant (and therefore a more pleasant task) while our blog has taken MONTHS to begin to attract comment and relevant 3rd party content.
So thanks for letting us know we have done some things right and that our reward will be found in.... heaven?
My advice is to always educate clients and manage their expectations... Let them know that SEO is/can be slow, no matter who is doing the SEO. Also, keep them informed about what you are working on and when it is expected to be completed. Might sound obvious to you guys, but most people that I've worked with are REALLY curious about SEO! This can often make it easier to explain to them the different time consuming factors. When they start learning new bits and pieces from you, they'll never leave! It's a cliche, but people do like learning!From an in-house perspective: When you start work, focus on the work that has highest ROI potential. Once you start generating great revenue, your managers (patient or otherwise) will listen!!
Thank you for this post! I have been trying to tell this to people for quite some time. I am going to be sending this to some people in our company today.
This post was well timed for me, because I just launched my own website last week (I've been busy taking care of clients' websites, okay?) and I've been complaining a lot to my SEO that I'm not yet on page one for my name. In fact, my paying clients are on page one, for the most part, and then the places where I signed up so that I could handily drop links for my paying clients, and there I am at #13.
If I paid my SEO (that is, me) anything, I would be complaining about ROI. As it is, my petty huffiness about not zooming up Google as I expected is causing me to be my least favorite client. My paying clients are always pretty chuffed about their results and there I am, getting my services for free, and whining about not being #1.
I've had to remind myself several times that you can never beat Amazon.com, and I'm about to tell myself to quit complaining. But then I might have to fire myself for spending all my SEO time on the paying clients.
Actually, reading this post made me feel better, but now I seem to have developed a multiple personality, so perhaps it wasn't good for me after all.
'...i know that you said it may take about 3-4 months to start making a mark in the search engines but how long do you think it will be for my site...'
I get this one quite a lot.
I always inform the client that it will take months to start to notice a campaign and usually start to help the client understand why Google needs to keep its SERP's clean and relevant so it can sell targeted adverts at a premium and this is why Google needs to start to trust you.
As most clients are business savvy (afterall most understand you get what you pay for which is why they commission a professional as oppose to a bloke from the pub) so they understand this perfectly well.
I normally suggest PPC as a short term model which keeps them happy while the SEO kicks in :)
rand, this is one of those posts i bookmark to refer to it at some point when a difficult client demands the impossible. many thanks
Many clients spend money on other forms of advertising (non-Internet) and it has been helpful sometimes to remind them that these strategies also take a while to show results.
Marketing people will tell you that it takes some time to build that TOMA or Top of Mind Awareness with other types of advertising. Getting respect from the search engines is similar. You may have done top-notch keyword research and come up with a solid plan that was well-executed, but you still have to wait for the search engines to notice and react. This explanation sometimes helps clients temper their expectations.
I also tell them that it is getting better! Often it used to take 6 months or longer. Now most of our efforts start showing results much sooner than that. Oddly, this "it used to be worse" reminder does help some clients simmer down
Good Point.
I like to bring up the old Yellow Page ad. You sign a contract and once it's published you're paying for it all year. Even if every person in that distribution area threw that book on the recycle pile when it showed up in favor of a slick cover on the competitors book. You pay all year even if you don't get a single sale.
At least with SEO, you eventually get somewhere.
Similar to building a new home, you don't decide on a blue print and move in the following week.
You get the permits (access to do your work set up)Scrape the ground, maybe have some soil tests done (preliminary analysis, maybe clean out the problems first)
Build the foundation, frame the walls, set trusses, sheet the roof, run wires and plumbing, put on siding, hang doors, sheet rock, tape and texture... you get the idea.
The good news is that before you do reach the completion you do have something that looks like you know what you're doing and eventually you will have domination long term.
But if you build it fast... the results will be short lived at best, and potentially disastrous.
Welcome to the SEO World... That's the way it is. I thought it was just me. People usually want to see inmediate results.
Let's say if you are getting a check of 10,000 a month to improve a Site's performance, and after 2 months you're not showing results: No improvement in rankings, no increase in traffic and conversions, how do you tell your client to wait 4 to 6 months? How can you tell him that after 30 or40 thousand of investment there's no results?
Is there a way to meassure $ invest in an SEO campaign vs ROI? I mean how can I tell a client that after investing 60,000 he will get 500,000 in ROI for example? How can I tell a client that his keyword in 1st 3 Google results will drive him x,y amount of traffic and conversions?
Great info Rand and you are right having facts to back up the time restraints is a necessasity.