(WARNING: This post is a little personal, a little off-topic and doesn't offer any SEO advice. If that's not up your alley, feel free to skip it. Thanks!)
The flight monitor status shows us hovering dead center on the icy, arrow-shaped island. Mystery Guest is next to me, watching a thriller from British Airways' extensive in-flight collection. And, since I've got a history of writing personal posts from 30,000 feet, why not continue the tradition...
We're on our way back from Spain, where I was invited to keynote the SMX Madrid conference. It's been nearly 14 straight weeks of on-and-off travel - Chicago, Santa Clara, Phoenix, Los Angeles, Sydney, Auckland, San Francisco, Long Beach, Ashland, Jackson Hole and finally Madrid. The airports start to feel the same and the cab rides all blend together; the skylines, the new friends, the weather - these remain distinct.
Travel brings with it perspective. I like to think each time I leave, I come back a little wiser, a little older, a little closer to building something great. The segments of my life are defined by the trips I take - the day or week of downtime between removing my shoes and placing all liquids in a clear, quart-sized, plastic zip-top container. The sliver of plastic that opens up room 307, 204, 1633 – no, I didn't have any crisps last night from the minibar.
In many of the cities I visit, there's a familiar face – one I've seen in countless cities over the past half decade. Along with his impish smile and proclivity for Diet Coke is that reassuring sense that I must be in the right spot – if Danny Sullivan's there, it must be an important show and, therefore, worthwhile to attend, to speak, to promote this not-so-fledgling business I'm growing. It's always my hope that by attending, I won't just be pushing the SEOmoz brand, but helping the new SMX conference series, too.
We've taken some heat in the past for being overly friendly with SMX – promoting their shows excessively on the blog, becoming overly defensive when they're criticized, spending time and energy on them. Let me be clear about this – we're going to keep supporting the series, obsessively and unconditionally. There are plenty of business reasons: a high overlap with SEOmoz's potential customer base, press coverage, opportunities to meet PRO members in person and build relationships, even lots of good business development potential. But there's another reason – a much more important one.
In 2004, the SEOmoz blog had just started and I was a small-time SEO consultant, working to fight my way out of the sandbox with only my 4th real client. I was posting incessantly on forums, scooping up and trying every bit of SEO knowledge, real or false, I could find. When I posted on the SearchEngineWatch forums, asking about the value of attending conferences, Danny himself PM'd me and offered not one, but two press passes to SES NYC so I could attend the show with my grandfather, Si (who'd been helping me decipher PageRank and patents). For the next two years, his generosity only increased, and yet, he never asked anything in return – he still hasn't.
When I first met Joe Morin in 2005, we went out for drinks at a pricey bar in downtown Toronto with Danny. The next day I remember Joe's exact words walking down a carpeted corridor between the hotel and conference center: "As long as I'm around, I'll never let Danny pay for his own drinks. If it wasn't for him, none of us would have a job." In San Jose that same year, I heard similar sentiments from Greg Boser, Todd Friesen and Gary Price, that would be echoed by dozens more over the years to come.
Is Danny perfect? Oh God, no. He takes generally horrible photos (don't let him near your camera), has remarkably picky food choices (don't get him started on corn), can be notoriously late, invents sadistically terrible trivia questions, and it's hard to say whether he participates in events or just Twitters them. However, there's little doubt in anyone's mind that Danny Sullivan and, in a large way, Chris Sherman, are jointly responsible for the respect our industry has struggled to achieve. Take them out of the equation and you're almost certainly left with a search landscape devoid of communication between engines and marketers and one in which SEO still carries much of the same snake oil salesman reputation it enjoyed in the late 1990's.
So, when Incisive Media purchased Danny's companies – SES (the conference series) & SEWatch (the website) - from Jupiter two years ago and snubbed Danny directly, rejecting him despite the fact that he had no non-compete (essentially saying "we not only don't think you're worth paying a reasonable sum to stick around, AND we don't think you're important enough to be a competitive threat, either"), I took it personally, even if Danny didn't.
The original title of this post was, in fact, "There's No Such Thing as Just Business – It's All Personal." It's not just a line from a mafia movie – it's a deep-rooted belief and it's how Gillian and I have always run this business. There are probably plenty of people who aren't wired in this fashion, and I imagine that in many ways, it's a blessing. I've had the conflict of working alongside someone I haven't gotten along with or who's mistreated a friend and it's always a struggle, because I can't separate the two. The case of SES and SMX falls directly along these lines. At a recent SEOmoz board meeting, someone noted that it might not be in the business' best interest to "be quite so religious about SES vs. SMX," and while, from a purely financial perspective, that might be true, I find such singular assessments too narrow.
SEOmoz isn't just a business – it never has been. When the website started, it was on a .org for a reason – no business was conducted there. The blog content, tools, and articles were given away entirely for free to the wider search community, as a way to say thanks and pay forward the incredible help, sharing, and generosity that had been forthcoming in places like SearchEngineWatch, Cre8asiteForums, HighRankings, SEOChat, and at Danny's SES conference series. As the SEOmoz brand grew, it made sense to take some of the many client requests we received, but we've always tried to maintain the brand identity crafted in those early years. It's why we've never moved any of our free content behind PRO and a big reason why we continue to engage in time-consuming free content projects like the SEO Industry Survey, the Web 2.0 Awards, and the Beginner's Guide. 2008 even brought our first charity client project – providing pro bono consulting to Seattle Children's Hospital. The philosophy that created this company may not always be the most instantly lucrative model, but it will always be the right model for us to follow.
This philosophy extends into business and personal relationships as well, and if you're someone who follows SEOmoz closely, you can see it reflected in the partnerships we form and the company we keep. Our cross promotion deal with Indextools started because Dennis Mortensen and I became good friends. That goes for Richard Zwicky at Enquisite, and Jeff Rohrs at ExactTarget. The VP of Sales at our host provider (Superb), Curtis R. Curtis, is not only a huge SEOmoz fan and one of our greatest allies, but a great friend, too. Will, Duncan and the crew at Distilled have been friends for 2+ years. We might not have a code of ethics posted on our website, but the message is in what we do, how we do it, and who it's with.
SMX never asked us for exclusivity. In fact, when I brought it up, Danny thought it would be a potentially negative image to convey, and so we've never gone that route. In fact, Jane pitched to attend SES London and Rebecca did likewise for SES Toronto (they were both informally rejected; i.e., no reply). I had settled on attending SES NYC if invited, but, like Michael Gray, was not asked to return. I was asked to speak at SES Toronto by Andrew Goodman and replied noting that I was concerned that Incisive had put a ban on SEOmoz, but would be happy to attend if they cleared it. I never heard back. When Kevin did his interview on WMRadio, he noted that for competitive reasons, some folks haven't been asked to attend the shows - perhaps we fall into that category, yet aren't technically "banned."
None of this will be news to the SES crew – I've been in touch directly with Matt McGowan (whom I have the highest respect for) with these exact sentiments. I'm not against attending or speaking at SES events, but I am uncomfortable with it. Helping to grow a brand and a company whose backers (by whom I do not mean Kevin Ryan or Matt McGowan, but rather the decision makers at Incisive) I strongly disagree with is not high on my to-do list. Good people work for Incisive, good people speak at their shows and participate on their blog, good people program their content. But, behind the scenes and nestled in the cornerstone of their ownership is a fact I'm simply uncomfortable about – they didn't support the person who's supported me, supported SEOmoz, and supported this industry more than any other. Looking the other way for the sake of a few more eyeballs feels disingenuous.
Will SMX become the bigger, better show? I don't know. What I do know is where my energy and my support belong – behind people who would give it back without a moment's hesitation. Perhaps, more than following a golden rule or trusting in karma, acts like these – both business and personal (for those who see a difference) – are actually self-preservation, shoring up the uncertain future with certainty in our relationships.
It's not just a philosophy to apply externally, either. When I look around SEOmoz, I feel that it's still a place where things have the chance to go right. This wasn't a company built like so many of the startups I read about, around solving a technological problem or filling a consumer need. It was a company started by two people who loved each other and loved working together – my Mom and I. It was a company that meandered through near bankruptcy and failed business models into survival, then growth, and finally outside investment. And through all that time, we tried to maintain a sense that ours was a different kind of business; one where people came first - our people, our partners, and certainly not least, our community - you.
I know that considerable concerns surrounded our acceptance of external capital last Fall. Folks worried if SEOmoz would maintain the same attitude and the same community it had as a family business. I don't expect that those worries have been entirely laid to rest, and I'm not sure they ever will be, but I can say that so far, Gillian and I still run the public facing parts of SEOmoz much the same as we always have. I know that some aspects have changed - I'm not on the blog quite as much as I once was. Not surprisingly, managing 15 people takes slightly more time than managing 7. There's quite a bit more focus on the PRO content, although I think we still generate more free, high value material than nearly anyone else in the industry. And of course some things are a bit more corporate - we have an in-house counsel (though if you've met Sarah in person, you know that none of the usual stereotypes apply), we report to a board of directors, and I don't write many posts like this one.
Overall, I'd say we're doing pretty well, though. The community at SEOmoz is stronger than ever, the PRO subscriptions continue to grow (at almost 2,500 members today), and I find the brand still inspires smiles and positive conversation wherever I go. We've been lucky - lucky to have so many great opportunities, lucky to stand on the shoulders of those who crafted this industry from its nascent beginnings before we arrived, and lucky to be surrounded by so many great people. When you look at my profile page, you'll see that my favorite thing about SEO has remained constant in all the years since I started.
Back in Seattle. I'm alone in the office Memorial Day morning and debating whether or not to publish. I think I will. I've got more than a few emails in my inbox asking for more introspective posts, and it's been a long time coming. Here's to hoping that instead of generating controversy, hysteria, or angry comments, people simply take it as an opportunity to learn more about me and more about SEOmoz. Despite the fact that my hair appears to be thinning on top (much to Mystery Guest's dismay) and there's more gray strands in it every day, I'm still young, still at the start of the learning curve about how to build a company and run it well. Here's to hoping that the decisions we make for personal reasons are the right ones in business, too.
There are several messages within this post, although one is particularly meaningful to me. You spoke of your SMX vs SES dilemma, bias or whatever you would like to call it.
In the late 90's, I had this overwhelming mindset that my company needed to "be all things to all people" - to satisfy as many as we possibly could, in order to be successful. We had to be "ubiquitous" to use the highly overused word that seemed to have been coined in 1997 during the .com bubble build up.
At the time, for my company, this meant needing to be partners with Lucent Technologies, NEC, Ericcson and a host of others.
The reality was that we ended up feeling like we "belonged to nothing", and were "members of everything". We had no identity, and our business had no clarity - no focus.
We ultimately changed and decided to focus singularly on our partnerhsip with Lucent, because they always seemed to be our "Danny Sullivan". It ended up being another key decision that launched us to real success.
Our work was more fun, it was more exciting and our relationship with Lucent garnered many friends that I still keep to this day. We made a great team and I dare say, we "owned" the Dallas market as a team for several years.
In the internet world, the term "friend" has become ubiquitous, and by virtue of it - almost meaningless. One is much better off to:
1) Chooses his or her friends very wisely
2) Not add to the mix, if it dilutes the value of or focus on - the current one/s.
In closing, my feelings on this are - go with your heart and ride with the horse that got you there. You seem to be doing both - and rather well.
There's nothing wrong with drawing a line in the sand and saying - "This is our side". When it comes to taking a side, I would have gone "all-in" with Danny as well.
There is nothing but continued success ahead for SEOmoz.
I wish my shiny badge let me thumb comments up twice. This is insightful and thoughtful Sean.
It is a very shiny badge... but your missing the hat of music and sound...
I might be wearing the hat. I hate to break it to you, but my profile pic isn't a live-updating webcam...
lol that would be a great/shocking enhancement to moz! or maybe just for staff - so we can see how hard they work.... :)
no was refering to the hat from the blogging session....
Rand,
amazing the clarity that can come from 30,000ft. Perhaps it is thin air, or some sense of isolation or removal from the typical hustle and commotion that normally surrounds us.
Of course, you tend to have clarity even without the altitude, not to mention without attitude -- something most appreciated by many of us in this industry I'm sure. With all the varying personalities, that isn't always the case.
Thanks for deciding not to shelve this post. It is beautiful and poetic and deserves its voice.
I attended my first show this year when I went to SMX West -- flying solo, it was too hard to justify the cost (not that I didn't think they were justified or worth it), thankfully joining Netconcepts has provided me with these opportunities.
Along with wanting to take in as much as I could, I had goals of finally meeting a number of people, some I didn't but hope to yet at Advanced, some like yourself, I was lucky enough to at least have gotten 5 seconds to just introduce myself personally (hopefully more time next time), and thankfully there were quite a few that I at least had a few minutes with.
While meeting each of these people was an honor and true pleasure, it all started with meeting Danny the night before the show began. I had no idea what to expect, and perhaps anything I would have expected would have been wrong anyway. It's hard to imagine anyone being so laid back, welcoming, and genuine, who has reached a level of position and notoriety within any industry like Danny has. He not only exudes the passion for this industry, but for the people within the industry. Needless to say, that brief encounter set the stage for the rest of the show...and what a stage it was.
We spend so much of our time focusing on all the technical and intangibles, it's important to remember that the underlying foundation for us all is people.
The desire to share information, to help each other out, and to connect with one another around something that we are all so passionate about, is a defining element to our industry. And we probably wouldn't have gotten this far without it.
When it comes to the search marketing industry, I'm not sure it could be defined as either business or personal -- it's business done personally -- would any of us have it any other way?
Rand, thanks for sharing.
Cheers and Happy Memorial Day.
Looking forward to seeing you again at SMX,
Brian R. Brown
~identity
Rand, thank you for your very kind post. It was a real surprise to find today, and a nice one as I tried to get energized after a long weekend away from work.
Like you, I respect and like Matt greatly. And I've no wish to get into a PR catfight over my negotiations with Incisive now, just as I didn't want that back then.
Kevin Ryan and I went through one of these a few weeks ago. It wasn't pretty, and I'm pleased that afterward we had a phone call, a good chat and a positive dialog out of it (and we both are unified in a message to anyone who cares -- no, neither conference is banning speakers). Watching from afar the recent TechCrunch - Wired catfight, as a spectator, I thought surely both sides could be better. And I resolved I certainly wanted to be when dealing with similar issues myself.
So I'll leave it at this. The deal was not the same as Jupiter offered. Moreover, Incisive as a player new to the space, looking for me to build a long-term business for them, should have been offering a long-term reason for me to stay with them. That's what I asked for in general. Nothing like that was ever offered. At one point, it was even suggested by Incisive internally to staff and externally I was somehow making unreasonable demands. To quote what I said before:
"The reality is that I never put forward any figures to Incisive. I asked them to make me a substantial offer for entering into a long-term relationship with them, no figures attached. An offer never materialized. I was given no long term proposal at all."
Pondering Next Steps -- Making No Fast Decisions has more details, and those after such insider baseball can also read what I said here: Happy 10th Birthday, Search Engine Watch - A History Of The Site
In the end, it made more sense for me to go on my own. And for Incisive, losing me and making SEW/SES more "regular" in relation to the many other editorial products they operate may have made more sense as well. No harm, no foul -- just time to go different ways, I suppose.
Rand - I couldn't help but comment, as I am sure you knew I would...
First, thank you for the compliments, they are 100% mutual. That said, you and your team have not and never will be banned from SES or ClickZ Events (I thought we had put this to rest – not even sure where the banned rumor came from). Come on down to SES San Jose or Toronto, it would be great to hang out!
Second, I understand where you are coming from, that said, as someone in the trenches so to speak here at Incisive, I disagree with your assessment of the company and its people, it’s not just Kevin Ryan and I who deserve respect. As for your loyalty to Danny, I completely understand - I too would feel the same if I was in your shoes. A bit about Incisive Media... Incisive is made up of really interesting, hard working, super intelligent, business men and women and the executive team, who founded this company (much like you founded yours) goes to bat for all of them time and time again. As someone who has worked for startups (PropertyRoom.com and a couple that aren’t around anymore) and public companies (Charles Schwab and Pearson Plc) I have not come across such a positive corporate culture before. In fact, I have been here as we have grown from 200+ to 2,000+ in the last 2 years and I must say very little has changed (no easy feat as you mentioned above). Now, I know you must be thinking that it’s easy to compliment the hand that feeds you, and yes I agree, that said very few of us have to work for Incisive as many have been offered jobs elsewhere, that said for the time-being we have all chosen to stay – because we are treated as we would treat others. (In all honesty I hope no one from Incisive reads this, as it will only weaken my position at the bargaining table.)
As for Danny and his relationship with Incisive, all I will say is that Incisive did not change the deal – terms offered where consistent with what was agreed upon with Jupiter. The falling out has in fact split a very tight industry in ways many thought could not happen, at least not so fast. It is unfortunate, as I did not have as much time working with all of you as I would have liked.
I am not sure what the future holds, SMX has done well with the Advanced event (I went last year and it was well worth it, the SEOmoz bowling/pool/beer funnel party was equally a great time!). The Third Door team has also done well with their SEL and SMN properties. After a slight rebuilding period, which is to be expected, SearchEngineWatch.com is stronger than ever (traffic and content) and in my opinion only going to get even stronger as we roll out new and much needed products to the market including Job Boards, revamped premium content – tons of great SEM video and audio content has been added, webcasts and more…) and attach additional respected columnists and editors to the brand. Search Engine Strategies also has experienced growth globally adding events in new cities across the world while maintaining our existing events domestically. We have made some major changes, as requested by our biggest fans, the delegates who shell out thousands of dollars to attend, all while maintaining the unparalleled learning environment that is expected of such a strong brand. Both the SEW/SES team and the Third Door team have challenges ahead of them, some similar and some very different – that said, we are both very interested in the communities opinion and I think both do a very good job at listening and incorporating suggestions. In fact (and this goes out to all who read this) please do not hesitate to contact me at Matthew (dot) McGowan (at) oba (dot) co (dot) uk if you have any thoughts, concerns and/or suggestions.
Thanks again for the post, if you are interested Incisive’s CEO has started a blog (our SES/SEW/ClickZ.com team has had a very positive influence here)… check it out you may start to see what I mean – Matt
It's good to see this here. I don't know internal details of any side of anyone's deal, but this came across genuinely...
Hope your boss doesn't read re: the pay thing....!
Matt - a very good comment, and certainly appreciate your participation in the conversation, as always.
Just two items - #1 - in your email to me, you said that you weren't on the content side and didn't know if we'd been purposely excluded or not. I'm guessing you looked into it, but I never got an email back from you so made the assumption that no news was bad news.
Also - #2 - are you aware of all the talks between Danny and Incisive on contract issues? I'm certainly not, and wouldn't want to conjecture. I'm not sure it weakens the argument, though - a relationship with an organization the size and scope of Incisive is always going to be very different with a personal one with the folks behind Third Door.
BTW - Offering job boards & premium content, eh? Sounds like SEW is becoming more directly competitive with SEOmoz. :)
Hi Rand - thnks for the note... and no, not competing all that much (maybe a little) - a very different offering
1. I am not on the content side - 100% commercial - that said, you have not been excluded... my fault if I did not make that clear (and I really do hope to see you and some of you team around and about at SES events - on the podium and in the seats).
2. Danny answered this below, I did not mean to confuse the issue.
Just a quick note - to EVERYONE on this thread - I completely understand where you are all coming from (ask Danny or Rand, I am sure they will agree with me), that said, I ask you all to give us (SES, SEW and ClickZ) a try... if in the past you were customers of ours take a minute and check us out once again (you may like what you see), if you have never been let me know (e-mail above) it would be great if you gave us a try.
@Rebecca thnks for the comment below, it's much appreciated... and fantastic to hear about the Iron Man, enjoy!
I don't think this post was off-topic at all. Business is personal for a lot of us.
When I arrived at SEOmoz, I was the seventh in-house employee. Now that we have (counts on fingers; needs more fingers... gives up) around fifteen people in the office, and with the changes SEOmoz has gone through, I still feel like we've retained most of the personality and passion-driven environment that was built before I arrived.
Thanks also for the frank discussion of your views on SES. Probably nice for everyone who's in the conference-going scene to see that "on paper."
I fixed one typo - you said I never heard back from SMX London (which certainly never happened! I was on Linkbait & Viral there) instead of SES :)
I think this has been the most honest and inspiring post I have read by a business owner. It reflects on eithics, values and the way your mind and business works in Tandem.
I started reading SEOmoz to learn SEO about a year and half ago - at the point in my life I thought that if I stuffed the page with the keywords I should do fine. I had a lot to learn.
Over time I learnt about SEO, and kept reading but not contributing to the community. I learnt about the community, understood the attitudes and got to know the online personalities, while at the same time building my own mentally without realising it.
I finally signed up mid last year, but first contributed much later in the year. And havent looked back since. One of the reasons is that I believe that you have built not only a company, but a community that is worth its collective weight in gold.
90% of the SEOs I know and interact with are via SEOmoz. And honestly? If I would have to go into business with anyone, it would probably be another mozer first.
So I dont question your stance on SMX and other partnerships, I applaud them. A successful business sometimes is like running a family - the better the members gel personally, the more respect they have for each other, the better it will function.
I've often found that people who invoke the "it's not personal, it's business" mantra are the ones actively going around screwing everyone, much like people who like to say "life isn't always fair" spend a lot of time trying to make sure it's unfair.
Hi, Rand! I've noticed that you don't post to the blog as much, and while I understand that SEOmoz has grown and you're busier than ever, I do miss your "voice" on the blog. You are one of the main reasons I started coming here every day. So I'll take this post - off-topic or not - as a Memorial Day present :)
Great job of letting us into your world, and why you choose to do things the way you do. I think you've mentioned before that you've spent some time contemplating a book about SEO, but rather than write a book about that, I think it would be fantastic if you wrote a book about your journey through SEO.
Happy Memorial Day!
Rand when your talkin about seo experiments and metaphors, that's when I usually pay attention - the thought experiment sort of things even if MM 'debunks' them all lol - most of the off topic stuff on SEOmoz I just scan.
I'm an seo and most of the guys who visit seomoz are probably seo, but some of them run organisations as well, like myself.
Ethics in business aside - We're (my partner and I) are trying to cultivate the same sort of environment I think you are so passionate about at SEOmoz - I even have my mum and uncle working with me now :)
This was an excellent post - glad you made it, and once again, you've inspired (puke!) me to perhaps go back to my blog and open up that little bit more abut our business aims.
Rand - a lot of people have already said much the same as I'm about to, so I'll keep it short.
I love Danny (not in that way, no matter what the photos from Sydney might suggest).
I love this post.
And posts like this are a big reason why I love the Moz.
Lovely.
Beautiful post, Rand. It's posts like this that keep you real, and SEOmoz real, and it reminds me why you and your company are so special.
I am a very small fish in a big pond, and when we meet briefly at SMX Advanced in Long Beach you were so nice to me it was a pleasure. From that experience my respect for you and SEOmoz grew and continues to grow.I meet Danny for the first time in the 90s (though I am sure he doesn't remember because it was only once) at a small conference in Boston, but he was also very sweet and willing to talk to me no matter how long I wanted to talk.
Thank you very much for showing so many that ethics and integrity have a key roll in doing business.
I admire what you say here and it almost doesn't matter if we agree or not (though I do).
Thank You :)
Reminds me of when I met Danny first time - was last year SMX London - I asked a question - Is it a bad idea to link to bad neighbourhoods using the nofollow tag?
He looked at me like I was mad. (actually all the presenters were really confused by this one)
Terrific post, Rand.
I've felt for quite awhile that SMX Advanced has become the mother of all SEO conferences, even though it's not even two years old yet. SES San Jose just doesn't seem to have the same kind of value (though I can't speak to the other SES's because I haven't been) that it used to. It has gotten so big that networking has become unwieldy and also the sessions seem to stretch out a bit too long. So from a purely "business" perspective I feel the same way--next week should be great.
Reading posts like this makes me ever more confident in the work we are doing with you guys. Your philosophy (which is pretty close to summed up with the 'business is personal' line) originally got us reading the blog, got us to be friends and has now made Distilled and SEOmoz closer even than that. Continued good luck for the future (oh, and see you next week at SMX Advanced - a brand strong enough that we simply call it 'Advanced' far too often!).
Good to see another mighty Brit attending Advanced :)
I find it funny that I meet some Brits more at US conferences than I do back home.
I better not comment on Rand's post, it's a little too close to home.
Haha. Yeah - we met in the US first and have only met in the UK once, I think...
Ciaran is calling for a London SEO btw to catch up post 'Distilled as global SEOmoz associate' news. Even if we have to buy our own beer, we should catch up in the UK after advanced at some point.
I'll get a LondonSEO set-up for 19th June. Make sure you bring along all of your SEOmoz friends and Distilled minions ;)
Can I come ;) ????
Everyone who's into SEO is invited, so you're more than welcome - as is everyone else here. I'll post an update on the website soon: https://londonseo.org/
PS. Sorry for going OT mozzers, feel free to down thumb me ;)
lol. I would gatecrash even if you wouldnt invite me lol.
re: offtopic - didnt you know SEOs suffer from ADD? happens all the time.
Duncan's getting married that weekend. He won't be around and I might be oop north. This isn't going to be the best way to plan one, however....
Good, so my plane ticket will be arriving when?
I might be able to cover you if the BA flight is as cheap as mine was to Seattle.
Darn it, I'm OT again. Sorry for messing up your post comments Rand :)
You obviously don't come by here much. We're very good at pushing conversations into the right wall and ending up talking about strange, random things.
Best. Post. Ever. Or maybe 2nd best. I'd have to go back and re-read the previous "musings from 30,000 feet" post to decide. :-) In any case, great stuff, Rand.
This post should probably be a 5 star in Thursday's roundup!
LOL - yes I did read it again
I'm impressed with the level of transparency SEOmoz operates at. At times it takes a lot of courage.
SB
I think you're confused here, Rand. I pitched to speak at SES Toronto last year and, after a few rejections, was ultimately accepted (thanks, Andrew!), and this year I was invited to return and speak on a panel but I turned it down because it's right before the half Ironman I'm doing. I don't really know much about the Danny Sullivan/Incisive rift and the ensuing SEOmoz/Rand fallout, but I just wanted to clarify that, from my perspective, SES/Incisive has continued to be friendly and inclusive with me--I'm just not sure if the same goes for how they are with Rand. :-/
Hi Rand,
My respect for you has doubled. You are a nice man Rand. SMX or SES: you are too far and too distinct from any of these.
Hats off to Danny; Hats off to Rand! ! !
To add to this, i must tell you that i am a pure PPC guy who knows very less about the technicalites of SEO but i still keep reading each and every post posted on SEOMoz.
Thanks a ton.
Ankur P Mody from India
This is a great post - I'm a big believer in loyalty and what it says about a person. Thanks for sharing this perspective - it's great to see validation of perceptions you get from conferences.
Bravo! Simply bravo!
Now this and the 30,000 feet post are the kind of post I enjoy. I remember telling you once that I don't care much for seo and after the look of shock, or dismay ( I couldn't quite decide which it was) crossed your face, I never had the chance to explain my statement. It is the personal side of seo that I love, the people, the noise, posts like this.
I could care less about debates on whether no follow page sculpting works or the ethics of planting fake stories for linkbait. But getting to know you and Si in China or wandering Gulangyu with Chris Sherman or having breakfast with Kim Krause Berg in New York or dinner with Mike Grehan in Nanjing is more rewarding for me than anything. Of course I make my living from seo but its the fantastic people I've met that makes this industry so special.
Make it your personal business to keep these posts coming.
Rand, can't say enough, and what I could say was probably already said. This was a great way to start my week. Knowing that (and i knew it already, but this proved it) someone else with so much more influence has the same beliefs has myself. The world would be a much better place, hell the internet would be a much better place, if we all focused on relationships and not money. Thanks for sharing, and I can't wait to meet you next week.
Kate
Rand, it is great that you put so much heart & soul into SEOMoz. That is why it so strong and you receive so much SEO love back!
Are you in London in the coming months? I would pay a lot in Google Adwords coupons to shake your hand!
Thanks for the post, Rand. It was a welcome break. You and the moz'ers have always been open and forthcoming. As such, this is a breath of fresh air in our industry. This just convinces me more that there are some real "gem" people in this business and I hope someday to be able to afford to attend one of the major conferences (or convince my employer to send me) in the near future so I can meet many of them in person. Keep up the good work!
Hey Rand, did I read correctly in this post you were recently in Jackson Hole? For all the long travel you did across the globe, and to all the SMX and other trade shows going on, you stopped into our little mountatin retreat! Wow... I just wanted to drop you a line and say thanks and hi!
Might I ask what you were here for? Vacationing I hope and getting some R&R between conferences! I don't know of any major SEO people here, but me... so I am curious on a persona level.
If you ever heading out this way, look me up on SEOmoz. I'll take ya out for a beer... we can forget about shop talk when relaxing here as there are rules in Jackson Hole... vacation and down time.... :)
Rob May
The only thing you need to apologize for is not doing enough of posts like this.
The karma rule is a very good one to follow...treat others like you wish to be treated and reap the rewards.
Also, I think too few people in this industry who write are comfortable enough to follow your lead in writing these type of reflective posts which is unfortunate because there are far more takeaways here than in the 8 million posts abouts how to generate backlinks.
Excellent post, Rand. I have always been impressed with seomoz tranparency, honesty and integrity. In a world of heightened change and competition, I am always encouraged by the excellent community that I have chosen to surround myself with. I will be attending SMX Advanced....and am very anxious to meet some of the fine folks that I only know today by their words.
Having had parents who ran their own companies, one in early computer days, one in architecture - i'm very familiar with the sentiment Rand has expressed here, and if anything it proves how valuable a company and group SEOmoz is. From experience I know that running a company in this way, aligned with your ethics and "doing the right thing" is by far the toughest way to go, from a personal and business perspective.
In so much I'm happy to be a pro member just to support you guys and really look forward to seeing you at a london conference soon!
As to the join up with Distilled, I can see the same ideas in play there and am happy to see the collaborative wisdom of this site grow just that little bit more!
Happy bank holiday (thats what we had in the UK!)
Hey Rand:
There's not much I can say that hasn't been said. A superlative post and one I'll be going back to read for sure.
Thanks for deciding to share.
Thanks for the incite into your company and your personal philosophies. I have always been impressed by not only the resources this site provides but the idea's supported in the community within this site.
I never felt like i couldn't say something or asking something when I was a newb. And I never feel as though my opinion doesn't count. It is a testament to the company you have created.
I hope this doesn't sound like a kiss ass comment. Its just there are alot of choices out there and I think this place both company and community are a great fit whether you are a pro or free member.
Nice post - how come your profile url ends in 63?
@randfish,
I enjoyed the insight of your article post.
I have to admit I was concerned when you took on a finacial backer but I no longer have those concerns.
Your integrety is your shinng light and I will continue to follow that light.
I also agree with Gladstein. Business is personal for most of us.
Welcome back and glad you decided to post.