A bit of a personal development post tonight, and a short one.
I recently read an introduction to a blog post from Todd Mintz that caught me off guard:
I was checking into my hotel at SES San Jose last year when I noticed in the lobby a prominent person in our industry…somebody who I’ve followed and read for quite some time. As he walked away from the check-in desk, I introduced myself to him and we briefly shook hands. Quickly, I determined that he was giving me a total “mobile hello” as it was quite clear that I was the only impediment between him and his evening beer / bud / bed. In my entire time in the search industry, this was the only time that I have been so thoroughly blown off by someone.
I do continue to read his writings and still assume that his behavior was a consequence of my catching him at a bad moment rather him being a bad guy. However, because I’ve seen so little of him in my social media sphere, there hasn’t been any subsequent interaction that could wipe away this bad experience from how I view him.
I'm pretty sure he's not talking about me personally, but it's a definitely a big fear of mine that, at one point or another during my travels, or even on the web, I've created this same impression about someone else. Perhaps I didn't reply to an email, ignored a LinkedIn request of someone I actually do know, didn't Tweet back at someone who was expecting it, or even missed recognizing a person I've met multiple times - and now they can't shake that same negative experience that Todd had. Maybe they can never read my work or hear my name without thinking of the bad taste left from that incident. You can probably tell those two paragraphs he wrote have been weighing heavily on my mind the last few days.
That fear, however, has also made me think a lot about the judgments I've placed on others over the years. I think of the people who didn't recognize me, who brushed me off, who never replied to my emails. I think about the small amounts of time I've asked for that were never granted or the brief favor that was ignored. And perhaps... They're all due a bit more consideration.
As I get older, I find myself with heavier workloads and more serious responsibilities. The paychecks of 20 people rely on me making the right decisions. The SEO efforts of thousands of organizations rely on me giving the right sorts of advice. The dollars of my investors and the income of my parents, grandparents and (possibly) future children are all strongly connected to these endeavors.
So maybe it's time I forgave the Michael Arringtons and Greg Lindens who never replied to my emails. Time to get past the brushings off, cold shoulders or overlooked introductions. Time to let slide a few of the worse decisions made by executives I've worked with or heard about second hand. Time to have a bit more empathy for my Dad's long hours spent working when I was young, and the time and emotional energy he didn't always have.
Perhaps fear is, after all, not entirely bad. Maybe it can make us a little more aware of ourselves, of our own judgments and of the human imperfection we all share.
I remember specific, separate instances where friends like Danny & Rae have criticized me for always seeing too much of the good in everyone, and never seeing the whole picture. I know that I'm doing less of that now (and while it doesn't always feel good to be more judgmental, it's become an essential part of my job), but I'm also finding that I'm a bit more forgiving of certain flaws - particularly those I see in the mirror. It feels like the right thing to do.
p.s. If you'd prefer not to see these types of posts on SEOmoz, feel free to use the thumbs - I know there are some folks who like to see both personal and professional posts here, and others who'd prefer it was stricly SEO/marketing value-added material.
Fear and forgiveness: probably two things people struggle with the most.
I can forgive all the unreplied emails and tweets in the world, and recognise when someone wants to get to the bar or get to bed or seems like they're being rude when they're not. Happens a lot, most likely.
What I find more difficult to swallow is the backstabbing, nonsensical bullshit that gets in the way of you running your business or me working at mine. That bullshit and heartache takes up more time than half of the real work we do. This industry is populated by talented, hard-working people but is too often damanged, loudly, by petty children.
My personal fear was becoming one of them. I've toned it down a lot in the past twelve months because I've taken on a lot more responsibility as well, and I also know how much their pathetic noise can hurt. When i took on a bit more responsibility, it really dawned on me how much life in general had to offer, both good and bad, that required me to ignore and let go of destructive influences.
Yes. I think backstabbing and whatnot is actually worse online. People do things they'd never do if they had to see them again in person. Compared to what goes on, being brushed off my a tired person at a conference seems like a minor thing
I've encountered similar situations at conferences, and I know Jane had a situation where she went to introduce herself to a well-known SEO and this person gave her the ol' stink eye and made her feel like she's not important enough to talk to this person. When Jane returned and shared the encounter with me, it really changed my perception of this SEO (even though I wasn't even there).
I think Rand's fear is giving the impression that he's too good for something--too good for a panel, to chat with a new marketer, etc. I can agree with that stance--you never want to be the guy traipsing around like your shit don't stink, because we've all had encounters with people like that and they really stick with you as a negative memory.
That being said, I agree with Rand in that sometimes you need to reflect on "grudges" or negative associations you have with someone and see if it's something you can let go of and try to start over by turning a new leaf and giving this person the benefit of the doubt. It's a good sign of growth and professionalism. I know that I've spewed fire and brimstone at "moz haters" early on in my career, and now I have a good rapport with these folks, despite our differences. It's really refreshing and a good learning experience when you're able to respect someone and interact with him/her even when you share different beliefs and viewpoints on certain topics.
I attended SMX East in October of 08 - it was my first conference. I had a similar experience to what Todd described several times over.
There were only a few people who I recognized from SEOmoz and the online community who actually knew who the hell I was and gave a shit.
I remember the first night I was pretty let down. I was hoping to make friends, but I was greeted with what seemed to be a well-solidified clique of people who knew each other well. And because I'm not exactly well-known in the search space I was just another blank face in the masses.
In hindsight I was being naive.
I did hang around the SEOmoz booth quite a bit checking out Linkscape (it had just launched). Rand, you were very gracious and happy to answer all of my questions - even if you didn't realize I'd been hanging around this website for two years or know my name.
You're a busy man - I can't blame you for keeping a claim on your time and attention. I can't imagine the number of people whose hands you shook and names you heard and then quickly forgot at SMX East 08 alone. To remember everyone and take a few minutes to chat with them all isn't humanly possible.
You don't owe anybody an explanation - anyone who feels they deserve one and is holding a grudge until then is free to take it to the grave if that's how they want to live.
Forgiveness isn't a gift you give to the offender - it's about letting your own anger go.
I felt a bit like that (SMX East was my first also), New York can be pretty lonely on your own. Then I got hammered, met some great people who I'm still in contact with now.
Moral of this story: Get hammered.
Yes getting hammered does fix most situations in my experience.
I take a different approach in life than you do I guess. You are more like my cousin (the person I'm closest to in life other than my 5-year old son) in that no matter what you do or try to convince yourself of, what people think, say, feel, or do matter a great deal to you. It matters even more if it is directed at you.
Rand, you are one person. You are one human. A human makes mistakes. I believe it is what makes us considerably better than a machine. Our ability to screw up, learn from it, and bounce back to perhaps make the same mistake again but more often times learn from that mistake to avoid it in the future.
What you need to realize is that you are a good person. I feel I read people really well and I know you are good and your intent is just. Be confident in that. Know that even if you were to be at the same bar as Danny, Todd, Michael, Richard, or others that you don't HAVE TO hang out with them. You don't have to even say hi to them or acknowledge their presence. Do it repeatedly and you may be making a decision not to socialize with them but you are not a machine. You can't go go go go go and have a happy happy happy face all the damn time. It's okay to have 'me' time. To just have time for you.
You've chose a fairly open public life (hello, superbowl) and with that comes a celebrity status. You won't please everyone and you shouldn't even try.
BUT . . . do unto others as you expect them to do to you. I think about road rage in this category. I NEVER get upset driving. No matter what they do. No matter if they cut me off. Flip me off. Run a red light, etc. Why? Because sometime in my life I've done the same thing, or will in the future. If you expect not to be judged for mistakes . . . then you can't judge others for theirs. If you expect high tolerance then you have to give it too.
You may or may not have followed the DiggBar dialogue that I've had with Todd Friesen, Danny Sullivan, and Gregg Boser . . . it gets heated. It doesn't change how I feel about any of them one iotta (sp?). When I see Oilman again, I expect to have the same strange love/hate relationship with him I've always had (he doesn't respect me yet, that's fine...I don't worry about it at all). I call him out in this example because I'm comfortable enough with doing it.
Bottom line . . . if people are going to be THAT pissed at you because you didn't say hello to them, return an email, send a tweet, Link them In or Facebook them . . . they so so so aren't worth it. Imagine what will happen when you actually did do something to them more significant how they'd respond.
This industry is FULL of amazing people . . . not worth getting hung up on the small percentage that may nit-pick.
My long $0.02 (as usual).
P.S. I love posts like this . . . I love it when people are real. 100% real and shed the business shell, the marketing persona, etc. I want to know Rand the person, in addition to Rand the SEO professional.
It absolutely wasn't you :.)
Every time we've met, you've been gracious and accessible and I've certainly noticed that extends to everyone I've seen you interact with.
you just ruined the viral effect of the post lol
should've written....
"I'm not going to say who it was...but that person is mean" lol
I dunno, but I try my butt off to be as cordial and friendly to everyone who takes the time to say hello. While it means that at time I show up late, or do some other task incomplete, I never want to be "that guy" who starts to believe they are so great that they can't say hello to people.
Sure, if you corner me at a show and need something that is a hour long answer I can't do that and I think most people understand that, but not responding to an e-mail seems elitist to me, its just my thing. But I bet your inbox is way more packed than mine. I would at least tell people, hey I'm really busy right now and won't get to your e-mail to maybe 2 weeks or 4 weeks, but I will get back to you.
I tell people that now - if I can help you, I will, but it may take me weeks instead of days. I'll try to respond to every subscriber, @ on twitter, facebook, blog, etc until my fingers fall off.
And when that happens there's Dragon :)
Note: I ignore stupid link requests and sales pitches though.
someone who attended IMSB told me that you are very friendly, and even share beers with folks that you just met.
i checked out your photo album the other day (i believe on flickr), and you seem to travel alot with your group (employees), and even painted a local school.
you may not know this...but small people like me take notice when big ppl like you get involved......even if you're in a different state.
Charlotte, NC
GTFO! :)
Glad that I left that person with the sentiment that I'm a friendly dude, I never believe my own hype, just keep my head down and try to be as good as I can.
Thx for the comment.
Well folks, I have to say - it's great to see a good spirited exchange of thoughts, ideas and perspective. Human behavior and relationships is certainly a fascinating thing.
We spend some much time dealing with computers and what they 'feel' or 'think' or 'interpret' a piece of content . . . nice to see us doing the same with a human for once.
;-)
It's impossible for me to respond to this post without my theology coming out. However, I don't want to be labeled as a crazy religious nut on this site.
So, I guess I will just say this. It is man's tendency to avoid responsibility. The American Man is characterized as a fat, stupid dufus - see Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin, Al Bundy, Archie Bunker, etc. Men in our culture today are trained to avoid marriage like the plague and set up an entire lifestyle that frees you from any responsibility. The coveted lifestyle is a college frat life until you are in your mid 30's.
I bring this all up to say that this isn't how man was originally designed. We were designed to basically divide and conquer. With that, comes much responsibility.
So to Rand I say that it is good to feel this weight. Learn to shoulder it, and then you will take on even more.
As to your comments on forgiveness, my vote is Yes. As men (and women), we are going to make mistakes and hurt others. Likewise, others will do the same to us. Without forgiveness, we are up a creek.
Ok, hope that wasn't too preachy. Would be happy to cite these thoughts in a pm.
Hi Rand,
I believe that being part of a community is about sharing.
You have shared so much with us from a professional point of view, and I believe most of the people here are thankful to you for that (I am), the least we can do, is read and listen to you when you have something more personal to share.
Actually I feel honored that you decide to share those personal stories with us.
Ok, I know what some folks are going to say, and to those people, I want to say that doesn't mean SEOmoz is going to become a therapy counseling blog!
I just think that a bit of humanity cannot hurt from time to time!
I like occasional posts like these. It reminds us that there is a more human side to everything (especially SEO).
It's not all just about linkbaiting, inbound links, link juice, etc.
Plus, it reminds us from a holistic business view that how you treat people (whether intentionally or not) it can have repurcussions on your business reputation.
It doesn't feel nice when SEO cliques are formed and you snub someone you shouldn't have. Besides, there shouldn't be a clique anyways. Share the love and cut out the snubbing.
I totally concur. After all, it's great that we have a huge appetite for SEO knowledge specifically, but similar to eating only sweets, can cause serious problems.
Beyond moderation, it's more about taking life's challenges and truly overcoming what others can sometimes ignore - which comes in blips on the radar an begs for discussion.
Forgiving others is nice, but ultimately it is the responsibility of the other person for their own actions, or in other words, we can only be responsible for our own actions and deeds. If someone is a jerk, that's their bag, never will it reflect on you, personally, nor should you ever take ownership of it. Being overly passive or overly aggressive are really two sides of the same thing. Be fair, balanced, and have empathy, but guilt has no place here.
It's a good post Rand and you shouldn't feel self-conscious about writing your feelings. Many people could say that they've been in a position where they didn't give someone the proper greeting or time of day that they should have. We're not perfect people. That being said, if this was patterned behaviour from you I would have a different comment but (having not met you personally) I understand from others that you are not like that. So it's not worth stressing over.
Thanks for sharing. We are all humans first and marketers second.
Jane
Unfortunately I have been on both sides of the equation. I had a person ask me a couple of times to check out their blog, (happens often). I was busy at a conference and blew it off. They asked again and unfortunately I once again was "busy".
A month later I was reaching out to all my Twitter followers and Facebook friends for a fundraiser. Of course I included this person. They took considerable time to write a lengthy letter on why they were not going to help the cause. Simply, it was in response to my lack of response to them.
It isn't always online.
In everything we do, from PTA meetings to social media, we have a presence. We can't hope to be all things to all people and that same latitude should be extended to those we meet and come to know.
Great thinking points!
Why did I like this post? Because its real, it reminds us that no matter how good we are at something, at the core we are still just every day humans trying to make our way through life.
Rand, its pleasing to see someone whom I admire be willing to expose a little of yourself to the voracious masses (good and bad).
From time to time a little personal touch helps remind us that SEOmoz isn't just a factory were great ideas are churned out. It reminds us that there are people turning those big wheels.
Matt
I think it's OK to feel responsible for ones actions. I think some commentors took it a BIT too seriously. Perception is unarguable. It is a valid thing. Some of the comments to his post were, in my opinion, a bit harsh-but that is just my perception. I think it's good to take his post for what it is and not to further break it down psychologically. His self awareness is refreshing and in a world where we've apparently raised an entire generation of entitled brats, we need more of it.
Just take it for what it is. At least he CARES and caring isn't bad.
Rand. I love posts like this where someone lays their heart bare. I do it on my personal blog but your post is business/personal in nature (more so personal but still business because it's on your biz blog).
Sometimes it's great to read what someone is "feeling" instead of just SEO this and SEO that. :) Keep em' coming. (Two thumbs up) ^^
Ah, the brush off.
When you do it, you aren't aware of it.
When you receive it, you take it personally.
When I first attended SES San Jose in 2007 I got the brush off dozens of times by people, even people I had interacted with online for years. On the flipside I also got introduced to a ton of people by the likes of Stuntdubl and Natasha Robinson (that's why both are the cool cats they are). Eventually I hung out with a small group of great people who I've kept in contact with over the last few years.
To a certain extent, the conference brush off has a parallel on Twitter - when you follow someone and expect a follow back and then perceive it as a a slight when you don't get one in return.
In both these situations, why stress? Pay attention to the people who are engaging with you, as those are genuine two-way relationships. You can always try reengaging with that other person the next time. Bend or break.
PS. I enjoy these posts too.
At the very least, they show the personality of Rand and therefore of SEOmoz, and it's much easier for the community to emotionally connect with a living, breathing brand than the alternative: a cold, soulless corporation.
Rand, you know you've got your share of haters and of people who criticize you (constructive or not) but we all know that you are your own biggest critic. So please take a hint from your President and brush the dirt off your shoulders https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZJex9Ge2-Q :)
Be nice to those you meet and keep in contact with them even if it's nothing more than a "hey how have you been" type of email.
You never know when this person could help you out in the future.
Since you are a CEO Rand, I for one would love to hear more of your musings...Throughout my career I have paid close attention to the "C" level executives whom I have worked under. These guys have "been there, done that"and can offer a treasure trove of life experience that can be used by all.
I think this is indicative of a "rock star" mentality toward the more visible people in our industry, and with celebrities in general. People that follow these celebrities tend to want to be treated as a friend because they feel like they know them so well. Unfortunately the feeling is not mutual, so friction ensues.
I doubt there's a way around this. It's impossible to respond to every email all the time or to be gracious every time you're approached by a stranger. This is a great age of communication, but we still only have so much free time to spare!
I wanted to add that I read Todd's post the other day and thought that it was indicative of what many other people have been through or percieved at a conference or event.
But from personal experience at SMX west last year you and everyone on your team was EXTREMELY nice, open, and accomadating to myself and my team. Andit was refreshing to not only see that from the moz crew but also many other SEOs that I had been reading and in some cases communicating with online for a long time.
Of course there were some douche bags who tought their you know what doesn't stink, there always is, but most people made us feel like we were part of the same big family of search marketers.
So rest assured that at least from our end you and your crew, including your Mom who is alwasy so happy and pleasant when we call your office, were all very inviting.
Miguel,
I was deeply offended when you snubbed me up in Encinitas the other day, but guess thats how you roll now.
Just kidding, tho I may be moving up there shortly - we have to catch up.
,Michael Martin
Google And Blog
Michael Martin, most people are beneath me so I don't waste my time. ;-)
You are alwasy welcome to come on by, just let me know when I and I'll roll out the Red Carpet!
We appreciate the honesty in this post Rand. Being enthusiastic and energetic people who thrive on positivity, it can be very disheartening when we don't get the same enthusiasm back from others. We expect it and feel almost embarassed or offended when the energy we put out isn't returned. I think that's where Todd's comment came from. Call it a slight, call it a mis-cue, call it a blowoff, whatever. You just can't expect people to react the way you want them to. It's tiresome and a losing battle.
Anyhoo, keep the great posts and info coming, and if you ever feel the need to disseminate some personal observations or thoughts, here at OUR SEM company, we're all ears...
Thanks!
Hi Rand,
I actually like reading the more candid personal posts on SEOmoz. I like being generous with both my time and money (especially when time is money) and try to get back to as many people as possible who get in touch with me. This attitude has garnered a lot of friends and business contacts alike, and thought it gets tedious to help out someone just starting out when you've got a big proposal/pitch on your hands, I instrinsically feel better about myself when I am able to make someone else's day better.
As your company grows, I can see how you think it all rests on your shoulders, but I do believe that the relationship and success of yourself and SEOmoz in general is symbiotic - Your staff are as invaluable to you, as you are to them.
I like to think of the SEO/SEM community of as relatively small and tight knit group of experts, so if and when we do meet, I'd love to have a drink with you and get to know each other. That said, I'm deeply respectful of how you truly care about how other perceive you and your actions.
I think it's great that you still try to remember what it was like to be just starting out and to be available to newcomers to the SEO world. There are certainly plenty of people (in every industry) who catch a break or two, decide they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. and then become too good for anyone "beneath" them.
On the other hand, I think the responsibility cuts both ways. Our industry also has its share of wannabes and papparazzi, people who would rather latch their fortunes on to celebrities than have to do the work of making a name for themselves. You don't have to be beholden to everyone who wants a piece of you.
At the end of the day, too, sometimes we're just human. We get tired and stressed, we get stuck on long flights, we go out after the conference and drink a bit more than we probably should, and inevitably we do and say stupid things. As you said, we all have to cut each other a little slack.
I like posts like this. When I was 16 I sent you a pretty long email (3 years ago) and wanted some advice about some articles I had written, it was about a week after I was mention on Matt Cutt's blog so I thought you might give my email a look.
I didn't receive a reply and it bothered me at the time (young, immature etc) but like most people, you get over these things and realise they aren't that important.
If you have 'let people down' or given them a bad impression of you, at the end of the day that is ultimately their problem for not taking the time to get to see the real you :)
Don't sweat it
Glen - not sure how I missed that email! I used to be really good about getting back to 100% of the folks who sent me anything... Maybe spam folder?
In any case - my apologies and thanks for the kind words :-)
I gotta admit that I felt like that with local SEOs
I felt like I needed to be heard even though everyone seemed to ask "How many yrs experience do you have?"
My answer - a little over 1 yr
Conversation will die after that.
I worked in other types of fields that had nothing to do with SEO. At Bank of America I learned that you need to make good numbers, and you need to 'toot your own horn'.
When I passed the local SEOs in rankings then some took notice. When I started to compete on a national level, and tooting my horn, then a lot more ppl started to notice.
In this industry you will not remember the people you meet a convention...you probably wont remember the name or face.
What you will remember is the impact the person made with rankings, and the great articles they write.
My advice for those who want to meet the big 'Fish'...
Work hard...and get results. Start off with your local SEOs, then work your way up. You may get better advice from a local SEO who will spend 1-2hrs with you then 5mins with a well known SEO who isn't focused in the conversation.
If that doesn't work....do it the old fashion way.....
Get in the top rankings for local/competitive SEO keywords, and many will take notice.
Do it on a national level and you'll even break Rand's neck from staring so hard. :P
"The paychecks of 20 people rely on me making the right decisions." That comment is very telling that your heart is in the right place. Great post - it brings up two great points. Don't immediately take every social signal personally, sometimes people are busy and distracted. On the other hand, be aware that your social interactions will be remembered far down the road whether you like it or not, so a little extra warmth is just plain smart.
Getting older and more mature is a bitch. Suddenly, out of nowhere, your parents seem smarter. Suddenly, I'm not quite so smart (damn). Experience has given me more empathy and tolerance towards the mistakes of others, especially after I make that same mistake.
I take Hanlon's Razor to heart "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Rand,
a lovely post and as you put
It's wonderful of you to share this with us.
Hi Rand,
Where does it say you are not allowed to have a personal life apart from the "social networking?" Doesn't everyone get tired and need a quiet minute. I think people should be mature enough to understand that and not take offense if they caught you at that time. Good manners would dictate that after introducing oneself you would allow the interrupted person to dictate whether or not it is a good time to pursue a further conversation and not take it personal.
Rand,
Knowing that this means so much to you and that it's not just about money all the time is what makes this a community different from the rest of the other seo blogs.
If only other companies could be more like SEOmoz.
Hehe, now you cannot ignore me at any shows, Rand ;-) That is a great, and very personal, post. Really like it!
Keep up the good work and watch if someone tall taps on your shoulders over in Europe at the next show....it might be me ;-)
Having met Rand recently at SMX Sydney, I still think hes a top bloke.
I liked the post, a little bit of a personal note is good.
I think you shouldn't take it too personal. There's no pleasing everyone.. Especially if you 'know' so many people, it's impossible to be interested/kind to everyone, everytime
Rand i think this is a fantastic post, I've read through some of the comments below and I cant understand any criticism levelled at this type of contemplation.
We all have to take time to be introspective, if we fail to analyse our past actions, emotions, points of stress we cant process those experiences and learn from them. I think your post poses some interesting questions about the pervasion of social media into our lives.. particularly someone like yourself who is so deeply immersed.
I think you could almost view your experience as an experiment into the affects of technology on the modern psyche and in particular the invasion of scoial media... of always being at work.
I wonder what retirement will mean to you.. is it the day you turn off your twitter, facebook etc? and free yourself of these responsibilities..?
I remember walking right past Danny Sullivan walking alone at smx in seattle last year and for a moment I thought of saying "hi" or whatever, but I could tell he was trying to get into "the zone". He was thinking, and it would have been selfish on my part to "have a moment" for me when he's trying to run a show at his frantic mental pace. There are times to "engage" and times not to. There are always natural visual physical clues about engagement that some are unfortunately oblivious to. Sometimes it's just a simple mistake rather than ignorance, but many people are too concerned with our own desires at times and don't consider others priorities. It is a positive overall thing to dismiss people at times when they behave as though you exist to legitimize them. Of course, politeness is important, but even that does not work with some people. I am just talking generally, so I don't mean any of the obviously intelligent and sensitive people here! And Rand - you are one of the most personable, helpful people I've heard at these conferences, but I'd feel rather silly wasting your time other than to say, "hey man, nice job" or maybe "kinda weak, dude", etc. If I need the serious advice, I'll pay to help with the kids college tuition.
Hey..
You just brought out what I had in my mind on Brush oFF's Cold Shoulders etc.. I love you because you believe the world is good and people are good by nature and only situations lead to bad behaviour (or we consider it as bad from our point of view). I was annoyed when old friends doesn't respond to email or someone we knew just turn a blind eye when we meet them in a function.
Thinking of that we inturn have done that many an occassion to our known ones. This post is excellent and after reading it I feel very light hearted and would love to see more posts like this..
Take Care
You are right about your responsibilites... but I don't think its an excuse for inconsideration. i think you can be both considerate and responsible... not always easy but definitely possible. There is nothing more important in life than other people for me, meeting others is one of my favorite things to do in life.
If I ever get to the point where my job or my responsibility leads me to be inconsiderate to others, I've gone too far... it's not worth it.
I enjoyed this post. I often want to introduce myself to people I find interesting in my industry but am afraid of bothering someone precisely when all they want is that beer/bed/whatever. Great to see it from another perspective.
Rand, although this post is not directly related to the "in's" and "outs" of SEO, we as marketing professionals and humans in a community of peers and idols, require a reality check. Let me rephrase that, a paradigm shift to realize that too many outlets can exist and mispercenption happens to the best of us.
Instead of concentrating soley on superficial elements in life, we need to be concerned with health and happiness that derive from accomplishment and being able to deliver/share with a community of people we would like to befriend.
I personally approve of these sorts of posts so long as they portray in detail the quality of interaction or discovery of misperception - to which we are all prone being in the industry.
After all we've got multiple personalities to deal with, complications like many other professionals and stress that derive from our ambitious character.
My 2 cents unfiltered.
I enjoyed this post because Life is about being human too not only SEO and technical geek. We all now the pressure over our shoulders to keep but it's important to keep ourselves human too.
Rand,
First let me say that you are one of the nicest men I have ever met.
I waited a long time to go to a conference and I went to SMX East in October. There is one person I really wanted to meet and was super excited when I saw him. I went up and introduced myself, in front of a few people i was excited to meet, and this particular person slammed me and humiliated me over something I wasn't even talking to him about. I just mentioned to someone that I wanted to make sure I got good chinese in New York, because I have heard so much talk over avoiding the bad chinese...
Anyway, it was at the night before the conference and it kind of ruined the whole thing for me. I read every thing this person has ever written, I respected them and was treated like dog crap. BUT then I met other great, great people, you being one of them.
I came up and talked to you during a session because you were surrounded the rest of the time. You were so kind, so nice and really treated me with respect. I will never forget that and it was then that I decided to remove myself from another Web community and get more involved here.
We all have long days and we all have tired days and we can't be perfect to everyone, but it is really all in how you handle it.
I really can't tell you the level of respect I have for you, not just for your knowledge or the information you provide, but because you are really a good person.
Just wanted to chime in and I loved your post.
These things happen all the time? It is part of human nature and no matter what you do in life you will always end up pissing someone off. You can't please all the people all the time...and come to think of it, who would want to?
Now that your name has been cleared, I'd like to stand up for Greg Linden. I met him at a workshop last year, and he introduced himself to me. Despite my being a co-organizer of the workshop, he was (and is) far more of a celebrity, but he did nothing to flaunt that fact.
I've learned to be more forgiving of people who don't reply to my email. I've seen what it's like to be overwhelmed by email, and I realize that we need better social protocols to address the extreme asymmetry between someone who gets thousands of emails a day and someone who checks emails constanty hoping for new messages.
Rand great post something im sure most people have thought about, always good to put a human face on seomoz, because you are the soul of the company.
I had a feeling that it wasn't you Rand. I'm sorry I can't make it over to the SMC / SeoMoz function and say thanks to you and the gang in person for all you do. Keep up the good work.
A former business partner of mine used to have very high expectations for those who worked with/for us. He was constantly disappointed.
As for me, my expectations have always been pretty low. So when somebody doesn't acknowledge me, or when somebody doesn't perform the way I'd like, I'm seldom disspointed.
Conversely, I am occasionaly pleasantly surprised when somebody exceeds my expectations.
i had a similar experience when trying to engage big name designer neville brody at an after conference shin digg - was totally shocked at his attitude... gave me a bad opinion of industry superstars and is probably why im quite critical of 'experts' today!
wow personal revelation!
Two CEOs are greeted by an enthusiastic person in a conference lobby. One pushes him a side while muttering "getting tired of these pissants" out of the side of his mouth.... but the other returns the greeting and draws energy from the encounter.
Which one would you bet on?
Both. ;)
Just a different kind of energy from each one. :D
I appreciate the post. One of my husband's colleagues recently died. He knew he was ill and left instructions for a final post on facebook after his death. Events such as this are good reminders to try our best with each interaction regardless of the pressures on us for deadlines and to also understand that everyone has their own set of issues. My personal challenge is that I am not very good remembering faces. If everyone would just wear the same clothes all the time and only show up in the same context that would make it easier for me!
While I do like personal posts to some degree, this one is a little extreme. Not because it is personal, but because of its context.
There are a lot more things to worry about than emails not responded to, and SEO in general. People have other things on their mind and to think a neglected email is somethiing to complain about is rather selfish and egotistical.
I don't know how this spun into a more in depth look at humanity, but I don't think it was appropriate.
At any rate...as I mentioned previously, I do like the personal posts at times, I just wanted to share feedback.
I personally don't find this post inappropriate whatsoever and have to disagree with you here.
Just as Dr. Pete and Brent mentioned, you need to put yourself in the shoes of the person writing this post. Some people are more compassionate and sensitive to the feelings of others.
I also feel bad if I don't respond to someone's email and it weighs on my conciousness - does that make me selfish and egotistical? Or compassionate towards other people's feelings?
And yes ... there are more things to worry about than SEO ... unless it's what you do for a living!
What?
There is something more important than SEO? When did this happen?
Did someone blog about this? Tweet about this? Facebook update about it? Did it get Sphunn? Dugg? Stumbled? How did I ever miss this?
OMG, I so so so need to keep up in the Search industry better.
;-)
I think its about one's attitude- 'not egotistical or selfish'... How important you feel the other person reaching out is for you. It's about the proper social and human values and above all good manners which is sadly becoming a relic of the past.
We are opportunists. If we receive a mail from someone very important but not personally known we manage to take out time to respond. Why can't we extend the same basic courtesy to others?
Rand's mail is reflective of how we operate and what we can do. Somewhat personal but nevertheless true.
OMG!!
What??!? :p
Rand is human after all :)
"The paychecks of 20 people rely on me making the right decisions.
The SEO efforts of thousands of organizations rely on me giving the right sorts of advice.
The dollars of my investors and the income of my parents, grandparents and (possibly) future children are all strongly connected to these endeavors.
So maybe it's time I forgave the Michael Arringtons and Greg Lindens who never replied to my emails"
Rand, with all due respect, I can't help but feel that your perspective, as stated, is overly self centered and self important.
On the contrary, the collective paychecks of those twenty people rely on the team making right decisions and doing the hard work that needs to be done each day. If anything, it is your paycheck that relies on them.
I also don't agree that the SEO efforts of thousands of organizations rely on you. Your perspective is only ONE of MANY that help them shape their practices and contrary to your statement, through their feedback, they help to challenge and shape your own perspectives, beliefs and knowledge.
It seems you've internalized and taken personal responsibility for the earnings of thousands of SEO's, every SEOmoz employee and your family members - including your yet to be conceived children, and have come to expect that if you send someone an email, regardless of how busy they are - they owe you a response. So much so, that you feel a need to "forgive them", for not responding to you.
That is a very jaded perspective.
How does a sense of personal responsiblity make someone jaded? I've been in Rand's shoes - I was VP for a company of 16 where I often felt like I was the only line of defense between bad decisions and the employees (most of whom I thought of as friends). You can't help but let it weigh on you. Maybe that's a bit self-indulgent or even egotistical, but it's hardly jaded, and even the egotism is rooted in good intentions.
You know I like you, Sean, but sometimes I feel like you take the contrarian view just because you can. I think you're missing the point of the post in a big way.
It's Sean's tone. His no non-sense feedback approach. Hard knox approach that just doesn't work with some personalities. I totally get what he is saying but that's because I can read words and seperate them from tone.
I worry that Rand will be the Atlas of the SEO community (or attempt) and that he has already started to feel as if he is Atlas. One man can't take on the weight of the world without being a God. Rand may be a great man . . . but a God he is not. Rand needs to draw boundaries both emotionally and psychologically. His feeling of responsibility to his company and this industry is commendable in my opinion . . . but detrimental to Rand if he dwells on this. Everyone has emotional moments where they self-reflect, if that's all this was . . . no problem. If Rand dwells on this though . . . I am concerned for him.
If Rand becomes the Atlas of SEO it's because he's put himself in that position and it's an incredible marketing move. Make yourself out to be carrying the sins and weight of the world on your shoulders and everyone will join around to help you lighten the load and tell you how incredible you are. Sort of like the comments in ths post.
I won't say anything here other than that it's always very revealing when people judge others by their own standards/assume that they think in the same way that they do.
Oh, OK - I'll say that manners don't cost anything.
Yes. It is.
I'm not judging. I'm saying that Rand is an incredible marketer.
The irony abounds. Lol.
Either you have no stance or a stance (positive or negative).
[/end grammatical rant] ;)
"How does a sense of personal responsiblity make someone jaded?"
I never suggested that Pete. Nor did I suggest that the roles of senior leadership, and in this case a CEO, weren't very important. They are.
I have also been in a postion where I've had global responsibility with well over 100 reports. The fact is, I felt that the way Rand worded his post, based on his own words and not taken out of context the way you did with my comment, was self-indlugent and I believe that most logical thinkers would read those statements that I quoted and derive the same conclusion. Interestingly, my comment started with 8 thumbs up and 1 down, and since then, it seems that the Rand defense team has chimed in. It's a pretty common cycle on this blog when someone takes a contrarian view (i.e. see Michael Martinez).
As for taking a contrarian point of view simply for the sake of doing so, I couldn't disagree more. I simply comment based on what I feel and hopefully with a level of respect (although sometimes I miss the boat), and without regard for whether I get a thumbs up or down. Personally, I find it distasteful to sugarcoat things.
For what it's worth - I didn't miss the point of the post. I just elected to comment on a specific element of the post that stood out.
Irony too. So, Lisa wasn't the only one. Lol.
Irony Sean, Irony.
-With Love, Joshua
While your comment has accuracy. Saying it in this tone to Rand will kill him. He's not like us in that regard Sean. He's wired different.
Rand, ignore the tone and reword it with love and concern for you as a person and you'll get a lot of good feedback from Sean's comment.
Brent,
All I can say about what you just said above is: If you cannot take the heat, you cannot be a leader. Rand can take the heat. He wants to take the heat so he can develop himself. That is why he made his emotions out in public. At this point Sean is the best friend Rand can have. And Rand, in my opinion, is not taking Sean's comment personally negative but as a constructive feedback. If my above opinion about Rand is not true, he will never be a leader (and Rand from what we can see from outside is a leader). People like Sean are one in a million and I respect him for it. I wish I had 100 friends like Sean.
I consider Sean a friend as well. He's a great guy.
Rand is wired in a way where he cares more than most do. I think that is a good thing but it's self-deprecating too if he takes everything to heart.
Sean was blunt . . . I got what he said. But felt (and I may be wrong) that the message may be taken as an attack (thumbs say others agree) when I know Sean well enough to know he didn't mean to attack but provide feedback and help.
As for your comment about people not being able to be a leader if they are impacted by what people say, I just flat-out disagree. I've met fantastic leaders that cry in private, at home, with family over criticisms they receive. They are so dedicated and focused that an attack on their work, role, opinions, etc. is an attack on themselves. I feel Madonna is an example. Clearly a leader in the music industry but she gets hurt/pissed when her front few rows aren't totally into her music.
Hi Sean:
It's always refreshing to read your critiques. You never seem afraid to tackle things head on and say what you think. So you are my inspiration for this comment!
As a small business owner with absolutely no cushion to fall back upon, I can totally identify with Rands post.
Of COURSE his perspective is self centered. It's a personal thoughts kinda post. And as far as being too self-important, I certainly don't know and you probably don't either, what the exact situation in his life is. The pressures he's facing, etc.
I can say that for me, there have been times that I've felt like the whole world has been on my shoulders. Times when I've had to take care of my business and my family amidst some really scary times. If I had written about the times then, I'd be writing a way more intense and self centered post than has ever been written here in moz land.
My point is, that as this is a personal post, it should be treated as such. A snapshot of where the poster is at the moment.
Personally, I enjoy reading posts like this because they give me glimpses of the human being behind the pen (keyboard).
goodnewscowboy -
You're absolutely right, but the fact is, blogs are a place for open communication and free speech. When bloggers build communities and share their ideas, they expose themselves to views both supportive and opposing. I think that's healthy.
I disagreed with Rand's views, so I candidly stated my opposing view. Nothing more, nothing less.
The bottom line is that there are many things about Rand that I have a great deal of admiration and respect for - and I have commented as such.
Nobody seems to jump on me when I do that, however, take a contrarian view and the shit hits the fan. I have no problem with that because it comes with the territory. I will say this - we can all use a good gut check once in a while. I usually appreciate when people are candid and critical when I'm off base. I tend to take those comments and rather than get hurt feelings and go on the defensive (or offensive), I get introspective, consider them and try to be objective about whether they have any merit. In any case, I try to learn from them.
Take a look at celebrities, and in the case of Rand, there is a bit of a parallel in that he's somewhat of a celebrity in the SEO world. These individuals have people blowing smoke up their butts all day long. Sometimes the most healthy comments people hear are from those that are willing (against popular opinion), to tell them what they really think.
In any case, it's simply my opinion - and we all know what they say about opinions, right?
You're right Sean, we all know what they say about opinions, and some people even have more than one.
And yes, it seems that a few people disagreed with what you said. But, in my case at least (as that's the only opinion I can know for certain) it wasn't out of any star-struck desire to defend poor Rand. Anything but - I've said things to Rand (after a few beers normally) that would have me lynched by such fans (if they truly exist).
No, what I'd suggest got the thumbs down is that your comment seemed like a rather snide response to what was an honest & sensitively written post: it may be that those people who gave you a down-thumb misread your tone, but then maybe you misread Rand's.
And, with all due respect, writing 'with all due respect' before you slag someone off doesn't stop it feeling like you slagged them off. Again, that may not be what you intended, but it's how I read it.
Hey Ciaran,
I agree that Rand's post was honest and sensitively written. In fact, I believe Rand to be a very sensitive and thoughtful guy. I simply thought that he was off base with how he worded those select comments I referred to.
I wasn't judging Rand, but rather his "perspective as stated". It could very well be that he didn't intend for it to come across that way, but to me, it did, so why not comment on it?
If I was attacking Rand, I might have written something like "Geez Rand, you sound like a conceited SOB", or even "Rand, it's clear from your comments that you are self centered and self indulgent".
But I didn't do that, did I? Rather, I wrote:
"Rand, with all due respect, I can't help but feel that your perspective, as stated, is overly self centered and self important.
If you found my comment snide, that's understandable, but it wasn't intended that way. I think that's a symptom of individual personality and the fact that the written word doesn't always clearly convey emotion or intent.
On a final note, I started my comment off "With all due respect", because I do respect Rand and because I was writing an opposing view - not because I was being duplicitous or manipulative in my intent.
Sean,
I've re-read your comment, and your reply to my response, and I still feel that yours came across badly (hence the down thumbs). For all the use of "perspective as stated" or "with all due respect", it still reads like you are essentially saying"Geez Rand, you sound like a conceited SOB", but much more eloquently. However you've said that wasn't the aim, and I believe you.
Apart from anything else, it's kind of none of my business, especially as Rand is obviously happy with the tone himself, and it all just takes away from the post itself. That said, I still think that it is easy to mix-up honest criticism with being rude, especially when it's on a site that, to a large exten, only exists because of the person being criticised.
Cheers
Ciraran,
Bugger off. (With all due respect of course).
Sean
Sean.
That actually made me laugh out loud.
Up yours.
Love,
Ciarán
Be careful Ciaran. The next time I'm in the UK I may show up at your place of employment and drag you out to the local pub for a few pints and laughs.
Warmest Regards,
Sean
Sean - fair criticism, but I'll try to respond, at least briefly.
I get lots of emails or messages through Q+A that say things like - "I saw XYZ video where Rand recommended this, then we tried it and it didn't work" - it really gives you a sense of the responsibility youv'e got as a blogger/speaker at conferences/publisher to be accurate and cage discussions with a lot of caveats.
For example - I wrote a post arguing against the use of Sitemaps a couple years ago. I can't tell you how many people have told me i nthe recent past that they stayed away from sitemaps usage after that one post. And guess what - it probably seriously hurt them, because in the last 2 years, sitemaps have been incredibly positive for every organization I've seen them work on.
When it comes to family and employees, I'll give you another example - 10 years ago, when I started working in this business with Gillian, I was young and very dumb (I'm still a little of both, I'm sure). I made decisions then that put us on a really bad path. We had almost a half million dollars in personal debt and almost no way to make the tiny payroll (only 3 or 4 of us at the time).
I'm certainly not suggesting that all the success is attributable to me - the team at SEOmoz is incredible. But, the CEO is absolutely responsible for an organization's strategy and if we make wrong moves, lose money and have to lay people off, that's my fault. Likewise, the goal of SEOmoz, as a venture-backed firm is a strong exit. Again, no doubt that the decisions I make are impacting my family - living and not-yet-born - and everyone who owns shares in the company, which includes everyone who works there.
I wrote in the past - The Buck Stops Here. And I think that still applies. SEOmoz's success will certainly come because of the actions of many people, collectively doing great things. But if we're faced with failure, that responsiblity and culpability is mine alone.
Rand,
You need to let go of this feeling of personal responsibility a bit.
Although you are a well respected seo expert, you are, at the end of the day, just one opinion (and the emphasis is on opinion - albeit a good one). If someone acted upon a piece of your advice and didn't cross reference it against other seo experts, or even test things out for themselves, I feel that they have nobody to blame but themselves.
If someone buys shares in a company simply because Warren Buffet says its a good buy, and then the share price tanked, don't you think that the investor should have done their OWN homework before listening to someone else, even if that person is an expert? Do you think he feels personally responsible for their investments going down the tubes?
People have to form their own decisions and carry their own cross. It's not your job to save them.
Rand,
Although I still stand by my perspective relative to how your post was stated, that's a well written explanation and I appreciate you taking the time to do so.
Sean
I don't want you to think I don't appreciate the feedback, and clearly, from all the thumbs up your comment received, there are plenty of others who feel that way. I'm really thankful that we can be honest and opinionated, both in positive and negative ways, here on SEOmoz without getting personal or insulting.
Don't change, Sean - you're helping to keep me honest, and that's a very critical piece of personal growth. :-)
Really?I'm okay with personal posts but how about disabling comments for them.