Every few months, some mainstream news outlet runs a piece on how SEOs are just a bunch of “snake oil” salesmen. The implication is clear – we’re the carnival barkers of marketing, promising you #1 on Google and bottling moonshine as magic potions. Cue outraged SEO industry posts until we’re out of breath, wait 6 months, then repeat.
Here’s the simple truth the angry back-and-forth arguments ignore – there would be no snake-oil salesmen if people weren’t lining up to buy it. I’m not here to excuse thieves and liars – they exist, and they should be called out. I’m here to tell you why you need to open your eyes and stop gleefully walking into the same trap over and over.
Why We’re All to Blame
This topic can get emotional fast, so let’s step back for a minute and consider another example in the technology industry. Lately, there’s been a lot of outrage about poor human rights conditions in consumer products’ factories, most notably Apple’s problems with workers at the Foxconn factory in China. One side is quick to defend Capitalism, while the other side rushes to blame corporate greed.
Both sides may be right, to some degree, and I’m not here to argue the veracity of the claims. The deeper, more interesting question is: what drives it all? Are corporations and shareholders looking to squeeze out profits? Sure, to some extent. What about us, though? We want a $600 computer that fits in the palm of our hand, plays movies in HD, takes video of our cats, and connects instantly to all of human knowledge. One month after we have it, we want it to be 10% lighter, 10% faster, make our cat look 10% fluffier, and cost $549. So, where did the greed really start?
Yes, “All” Includes You
Sorry, but you need to hear this. When you interview an SEO company, have wild expectations, only hear what you want to, demand results “by any means necessary,” and want it all for just $99.95, then what do you expect is going to happen? You’re going to attract thieves and liars, and you’re going to deserve it.
Ok, rant over. This isn’t about being holier-than-thou and I’m not just here to scold you. I sincerely want people to stop selling and buying snake oil. So, here are six tips to keep you from wasting your money on magic beans...
(1) Educate Yourself
I know what you’ll say – “I don’t have time, and SEO is complicated.” Guess what – that’s exactly what the snake-oil salesmen want you to believe. They may even say it out loud during your first meeting. Modern online marketing is complicated and covers a lot of ground, but you don’t have to know everything. Invest a couple of weeks in learning just enough of the basics so that you can ask the right questions. While I was writing this post, we re-launched The Beginner’s Guide to SEO – that’s a great place to start.
It’s not just about SEO, though – educate yourself about the company you’ll be working with. Is their reputation good? Do they even have a reputation? Do they have a website (I hope so, but you’d be surprised)? How long have they been around? It’s amazing how people will spend hours deciding whether or not to see a $10 movie or research where to get a donut but then will walk into a meeting and spend $10,000 with no information at all.
(2) Trust Your Instincts
We all feel pressure – time pressure, budget pressure, angry boss pressure, and just the pressure of fatigue and wanting to move things forward. When that pressure kicks in, we ignore our gut. We walk into a room and instantly have a bad feeling or just plain dislike the people we’re talking to after 5 minutes, but we shake it off because we want the ball to keep rolling. Don’t ignore your instincts – almost every time I’ve had a bad feeling about a prospective vendor or client and brushed it off, I’ve regretted it. There’s always another vendor, and the sunk cost of a couple of hours of meetings is nothing compared to what you’ll lose if you pay for 6 months of bad SEO.
(3) Roll to Disbelieve
Sorry, nerd joke. If it looks too good to be true and it sounds too good to be true, then it’s probably a duck. Look at all of the recent Ponzi schemes where people were getting a 178% return rate against a market that was at -3%, the creator of the scheme got busted, and then EVERY SINGLE INVESTOR acted completely shocked. Really?
We don’t believe most lies because of the skill of the liar. We believe most lies because the liar tells us what we want to hear. Ask the tough questions, even (or especially) if you like what you hear. Bare minimum, make sure you ask about the next two items…
(4) Ask About Tactics
We’re a very results-oriented business culture, and that’s great. You should ask about metrics and ROI and know what you’ll get for your money. Just don’t let empty promises of results gloss over the details of what specific tactics the vendor plans to use. It’s not just about whether they use “white-hat” or “black-hat” tactics – it’s about whether they have a plan at all. A qualified vendor should be able to map out what they’ll do, and they should be able to explain why they choose to do it that way. It’s also about accountability – if someone tells you what they’re going to do, you can check later to see if they did it.
(5) Find Out the Risks
All SEO carries risks, no matter how “white-hat” it is – most notably, the risk that you’ll spend your money on something that provides no benefit. Every vendor should be able to ballpark the risks in their approach – if they start saying things like “We only use Google-approved methods,” keep pushing. Rules change, and the best SEOs know how to adapt. The ones who think their methods will always work (just because they’ve worked so far) are the ones whose clients get slammed by algorithm updates.
(6) Plan Status Updates
The worst thing you can do is to set a vendor loose, check back in six months, and realize they’ve done something completely different than you expected. Actually, there’s something even worse – when you check back after six months and they can’t even tell you (or won’t tell you) what they’ve done. We see this all the time in link-building – someone hires an SEO firm, rankings drop months later, they suspect the vendor was to blame, but they have no record of what that vendor actually did. I’ve been involved in the kind of detective work that happens at this point, and it isn’t pretty.
Treat your vendor like they’re part of your in-house team – you don’t have to micro-manage, but you should demand accountability. It’s good for both of you – as a conscientious vendor, nothing’s worse than going in the wrong direction for months because of bad communication. I think an Agile approach (borrowed from the software development world) works well – do short, frequent check-ins, agree on some kind of documentation (like a shared document with link sources or tasks), and adjust as needed.
What About Black-hats?
Before I hear about it in the comments, let me be perfectly clear - when I say “thieves and liars”, I am not talking about “black-hat” SEOs. I’m talking about companies that literally steal their clients’ money and lie to them about risks and results. If you want to pursue black-hat tactics, in the sense of knowingly violating Google’s policies, that’s your business. Whether or not I agree with you, all of my advice in this post still applies. Skilled black-hats may not advertise their tactics openly, but once you’re face-to-face with them as a prospective client, they should still be honest about their methods and the risks.
Hi Pete,
what you describe is the dumb economy.
I'd like to just to say that at the base of the dumb economy there's ignorance. Ignorance due to the scarcity of information about why SEO and web marketing online is not cheap, or simply about what it is. To talk about scarcity of information is quite astonishing, if we think how the web is filled with sites about all the possible emarketing disciplines.
But sites that are purposely focusing the businesses CEOs and management public, the ones who know almost nothing about Search Engine Optimization, Data Analytics and Social Media Engagement and with old school classic Marketing knowledge only, can be counted with the fingers of one hand.
This ignorance makes easy to believe that being on Google ranking like Amazon is just a question of some hacking and not much more. Well, maybe something more, but nothing that cannot be fixed in an hour or two by a devs, or that PR online is the same than sending a press note to a magazine. Oh, and then they can always tweet like bots, update Facebook during lunch time and Google+... who cares, none is on Google+.
The problem is that online marketing, even though it can be defined as a mature social-economical science, is still thought as the younger sister of Marketing and its strong technological facet is driving crazy many when organizing the corporates' structures (for instance, putting SEO under CTOs and not CMOs).
So... snake oil vendors will exist since when the basic knowledge of Online Marketing won't be mainstream, as it was (with notable exceptions) with Medicine. And maybe we should start talking less in the comfort of our "clubhouse" and more and widely to those ones who finally are our clients.
Hey Gianluca,
While I really like this article (Dr Pete is no dummy!) I actually like this insight even more. It's also the main reason why I think Rand is one of the top SEOs in the world. Not nessecarily relating to SEO knowledge, but more in terms of his emphasis on education and understanding, and even passion for, the general industry of web marketing (inbound marketing? internet marketing? whatever the name).
It was no surprise watching a presentation and Rand said Neil Degrasse Tyson is a personal hero of his, for the same reason: in his passionate pursuit of education, he not only is able to effectively relate knowledge onto others, but he also uplifts his own field in the minds eye of the public, even when explaining concepts that are basic to him.
I try to take this approach with clients, and so far it's worked wonders. Then again, I'm still pretty new to all of this, so who knows if I'm doing it right or not :)
And this is increased by our ever-evolving industry. Monthly Google updates require clients to be knowledgeable about Pandas and Penguins when they have their own industries to worry about. This means that we as SEO's/inbound marketers need to put an emphasis on education and communicate these industry changes through effective CSR. If our clients are in the loop, they will be much less likely to panic and fall for: "1000 static text links to your website. Guaranteed Results!"
That's a great point. What bugs me some days is that you honestly see it in traditional advertising/marketing, too. Why doesn't Madison Avenue get flack for multi-million dollar ad campaigns that drive little or no business while we get beaten over every dollar? They have history, and an "Old Boy's Club" and a lot of, frankly, mythology to protect them. We come out with transparency and data and get beaten up over every drop from #4 to #3 for a day. It can be aggravating at times.
Way to speak the truth!!! I really love the honesty. These are just some of the main reasons why SEOs are constantly having to break away from the mold and continuously improve. We all must make strides to avoid the dumb economy in order to get good clients.
Gianluca is exactly right.
Bring SEO into the spotlight of a more transparent marketplace and watch the SEO snake oil burn-off.
Unfortunately, I believe we are very far away from this...
Here is how we are viewed by many: https://www.theverge.com/2012/5/10/2984893/scamworld-get-rich-quick-schemes-mutate-into-an-online-monster
I wish more prospective clients would read this it would help point them in the right direction.
We have a seo company in our area that sells this snake oil. (I'm sure most do) It's super sad they sell these prepackaged seo services. I know because we get people coming to us after months of paying for no results.
BTW, I think I have a bottle of Dr Pete Snake Oil in my refrigerator.
https://www.dr-petes.com/
;) I have no relationship with them, but their stuff is delicious. I like to buy it as gag gifts.
I actually meant the "Hidden Valley Ranch" in the post picture but Dr. Pete's has a Herb Bacon Dressing that sounds good.
To be fair, ranch dressing IS a miracle condiment.
I do basic to mid-level SEO as a bolt-on to my web services packages and I must say, I don't think it's the £99 (basic SEO), it's more that some clients have no realistic idea of the work involved in SEO, some are cheap and want to have ebay for under £2000 and others go too far the other way and wont buy anything less than £5000. I have clients with really basic SEO that make it work because they update their blog, they socialize with other professionals and engage with their market; Sure they could do more, but it's working for them. Just as I have this one really annoying client that phones me up, e-mails me etc telling me what he knows about web design and SEO.
On snake oil salesmen it's not all about price, I remember inviting an external SEO consultant to talk with me and he said "Look in 6-months I got this company to top 4 in google". I think the business he referenced was on page 4 of private mode in chrome but in normal chrome they were about position 4-5. He was very pleased with this, so I showed him a website I built, it wasn't hard it was on #1 of the same page and sure, it was not as pretty as the polished page he was showing (basic landing page). Now I'm the first to admit I'm no SEO guru (hence not offering above mid-level SEO £500 per month). The point being that this guy had a "reputable" business charging like twice my fee and had absolutely no clue what he was doing and others were lapping this up because when he said magic words like link-backs, content creation and my all time favourite optimization they thought they were getting grade-a when effectively they were buying "not fit for human consumption"
That's a great point - it's easy to pick on the bargain basement people or the foreign outsourcing companies, but that's an oversimplification. I've met companies charging thousands/month that were screwing people (and not just in SEO, to be fair). I do worry about the "bargain" mentality and you often get what you pay for, but you have to do your homework at any price level, and there are crooks in Armani suits, too.
It can always help to posistion it with the client, what and how much would you do for $99.99/month... they usually struggle to give you an answer they are comfortable with. Sure even with outsourcing you will struggle to get a decent return on that and recently a whole bunch of Australian firms trying to maintain that low price point have really started to struggle as the churn and burn mentality has pissed off more existing customers than new customers they can find in the market to replace them with.
Agree see soo many of these companies in the Australian market now who offer these crazy low prices, where they offer $299.99 (All you can get SEO! with Guaranteed RESULTS!!) then they take on say 30 client at $299 each, they employ a junior fresh out of high school to manage the "accounts", they throw him a Bruce Clay SEO guide and then things work like this over and over. The question is will you get quality work for your $299 when you have some one who is managing 30 accounts?
Don't get me wrong their are some quality companies in australia but their are also some very poor quality companies too.
I seriously had this conversation with a new client prospect
"We used to have an SEO who was awesome. He had us #1 for all of our keywords"
Me: Wow that's great, why don't you use him any more then?
"Well he was charging us $150 and then he wanted to raise his rates to $300, so we fired him"
Me: $150 per hour to $300 per hour?
"What! No, $150 per month to $300. Which is too expensive, so we fired him"
Me: The stuff you just asked me to do is going to take like 20-40 hours per month.... For less than $150...
"I don't see the problem"
LOL
Many businesses utilized the cheap/automated services in the past and that's their impression of what SEO is and what it should cost. They don't realize that a) it doesn't work and b) it actually costs money.
Were you able to land the prospect afterall or did they stick to "what they know"?
Well I wouldn't compromise my pricing down to $3/hr so in the end my educational pitches fell on deaf ears, and we didn't end up working together.
I've found that clients who expect to pay more and are willing to are typically the best clients to have and cause the least problems, where the ones who are barely paying anything expect the world and criticize everything you do.
Exactly, those who are willing to pay more typically have a better unserstanding of SEO and don't expect instant results. Those paying less think that it's as easy as flicking a switch and can get their site ranking for anything in months for a nominal fee, despite what they are advised.
I have learnt, the hard way, to never drop my fees. My fees are my fees, there is no wiggle room.
I agree. I've also had clients however who have said, "I know you can do it for less. Just lower your fee" Lol!
I don't like to work hourly, and I hesitated to set an hourly rate for a long-time, but I find it helps end those conversation before they go nowhere. If someone has a heart attack* if I say $150/hour, then I know I'm not talking to a prospective client :)
*No one has actually died because of my billing rates
Being a budding online retail store owner I recently set off to "learn" SEO myself. Yes I have read the Beginners Guide to SEO and many of the blog posts here (Rand, thank you) and I have devoured everything there is to learn on Google and a few SEO for Dummies books. Recently I managed to submit a site map on Google and insert some relevant code so that Google recognises me on its Analytics (watershed moments I assure, amongst many others).
In no way am I even close to qualified, but this is what I have learned. Keep it natural, create lots of fresh content preferably in an optimised way, build meaningful relationships across the web and use these to develop backlinks to your site that are valuable, develop your social networks through sites like Twitter, FB and Google+ (in doing so don't pimp your product but your content), be human and stay away from quick wins because you will get caned by the next Panda or Penguin if you take short cuts. Effectively, build a solid base and let it grow over time and you will be rewarded.
In doing this develop a keyword strategy based off thorough keyword research, weave these well chosen words and phrases naturally on-page into your site (goodness this can be time consuming) do the same off-page with appropriate and meaningful links back to your site (but watch your anchor text cos they need to be natural too).
What else; submit your site to appropriate online directories, write articles and publish them onto established ezine sites, comment frequently in forums, but only those that have some sort of editorial test to pass, create a off-page blog with interesting useful comment and link it back to your main site, submit your url to social bookmarking sites, do a few press releases, get a professionally taken photo and keep your avatar constant (I learnt that today), get likes on FB, and +1 on Google because they prove your site to be relevant...the locals around me have a famous saying when they are up against it: "how to?" As in how the heck can I do all of that, I'm a one man band with good intentions!!
So I've paid a content writing service to help with some of the content stuff, problem is they just aren't my style and even with the best intentions they can't do it the way that the owner would. Everyday I check my keywords in Google, they are basically nowhere to be seen but I'm sticking to the plan...but yes the urge to buy some snake oil is there, very very strong, very strong indeed!
Thanks for the great site and blog it is truly invaluable. And if you want a newbie's opinion please don't hesitate to ask, I need those relationships so much because I believe all of you I'm doing it the hard way. And i know there is no such thing as a free lunch.
The greed to get desired results (like getting rich) as quickly as possible with least amount of efforts make people vulnerable to being scammed. It is not just with SEO, it is with everything. The whole diet pill industry thrive on this greed. So why single out just SEOs. Lets be real. Some businesses just don't want to do the real company stuff (like investing in contents, social media, making a world class website etc) even when they know that they need to, as it is just too time consuming and expensive for them. But they still wish to be number 1 in their niche some how. Then they look for someone who can help them get what they want and the way they want. Scammers seize this opportunity, jump straigh in and cash in on their ignorance.
I do think we sometimes have to remember that these things are NOT unique to SEO. We like to think we're being unfairly picked on, and there are certainly new and unusual aspects to what we do, but scammers and victims have been around for millenia.
I wont write a long detailed seo comment as Rand said be specific while commenting ..;)
So, there is only one thing we should keep in our mind while living life is "Biggest Achievement in life is being true to yourself"
My boss keeps getting SPAM in his inbox from these companies and he keeps asking me to look into them and call them up and try to get something going. I've told him time and time again that we shouldn't do this. One of his sites even got Penguin pelelized and he STILL wants to do it! I'm currently resorting to "losing" those emails and experiencing temporary amnesia.
Believe me, I've been there. I dont have the answer, but I do feel for you. Make sure you document the risks and put them in real numbers. People get wowed by empty promises, but they feel loss and risk even more strongly. If they hear the risks WITH the promises, they often think twice.
IMO at least 90% of so called SEO's are scummy liers or they just don't know what they are doing. We designed a dedicated page for the company I work for and it now ranks #2 in Google for the term "SEO Quote". If you check the page it tells the truth. This content exposes what others do, and unfortunetly it's still not enogh for most people. When I tell a prospect no guarentees and a 6-12 month avg. time frame, they disappear!
The saddest part of all this is after these companies get burned, they are too proud to come back to our cmpany for "real SEO" (reputation building).
I truly believe that as long as we stick to honesty, it will pay itself off!
We were just talking about this last night at an SEO Meetup group.
I think some fundamental problems with these "information services" is that
A) "anyone" can do it and be an "expert" (there's no degree, certification, etc)
B) People uneducated about SEO think it's some kind of "add-on" to their hosting or a piece of software you run that gets instant results
C) It's not tangible and not "real" because it's on the internet, so it's not worth as much money
D) Everyone's neighbor's son knows that computer stuff and can do it for free
I actually wrote a small rant just about this as well that we need to STOP being "SEOs" and start being TEACHERS and actually educate people and clients so they understand the true purpose, goals and processes that follow marketing and business basics. This is not some push-button system, it takes hard freaking work.
Don't know if we can do links or not so the mod can change it if they want -- here's the URL
https://zoomspring.com/dont-be-an-seo-be-a-teacher/
Yeah, I think we've seen that with a lot of digital/online skills. People think that, because they can open Word, they can publish a newsletter, etc. It's just a reality we have to fight through, and education is definitely a big part of that.
ha ha... loved that label... "Dr. Pete's 100% Genuine Snake Oil"... Thanks for the laugh!
At the end of the day you get what you pay for with SEO as you do with any other service or product.
The monthly fee dictates the quality and quantity of work. For $99 or $299 you're not going to get a large number of hours from staff with a lot of experience, however for some startup's this still represents a large chuck of marketing budget.
For many startups, I now just recommend they hire an SEO consultant or Developer with SEO knowledge to build or fix their website before pointing them towards the Beginners Guide to SEO to help them market their business themselves until they are in a position to seriously invest in SEO.
Additionally, I do think there is a worrying lack of regulation in our industry for a practice that can be the life or death of a business.
This is vitally important to the SEO community. I encourage these types of awareness posts, sometimes we just need to know the cold truth. How many times i've ended up in a discussion with a client about how they intend to circumvent the search engine algos using proven methods. Well, newsflash, its not going to work anymore or will not in the immediate future. Just focus on customer, customer and customer, then the business will take care of itself.
A well written & much needed post Dr. Pete, good job.
I believe that since around February with the start of Google's algorithmic changes aimed at 'levelling the playing-field in the world of SEO', Google have taken away the magic potion that once existed.
Now, to rank highly, a website/web page really needs to 'deserve to rank highly'. Previously, through ethical white-hat SEO, a weak page with a poor offering could rank highly, so easily. Now, for those feeble weak pages, there's no more magic potion that can be applied, if it doesn't deserve to rank highly, chances are it wont. And all credit to Google for making this so.
If a client has a strong online offering then any professional ethical SEO can make it rank highly, generally & relatively speaking. If the client has a poor offering, they need to go back to the drawing-board before they can rely on SEO, there's no such thing as magic anymore (in SEO). All may not be fair in love & war, however all is now more fair than it used to be in the world of SEO.
Agree indeed.
There are many reasons why a lot of internet thinks of SEO as a load of BS. Mostly, there are a lot of BSers in the industry who have no ethics. While they may have seen a lot of short term gains, they will ultimately get taken down a notch in the next Google update.
I've seen "guarantee page 1 in a week" jerks demonstrating their success by having the client sign into google and then search their keywords... in most circumstances, their site does come up... if Google would just fine tune the relevance and not simply bring up previously viewed content, these goofballs wounldnt get away with it!
I am waiting for this kind of post since I started my SEO career at least Moz come up again to help SEO community. Good work Dr Pete.
I will share this post every individual client who wants first rank in just $99. With the reference of this post we are in better position to clear our point.
Simple awesome work.
As far as I'm concerned this is a really simple issue for agencies. If a client says they can get SEO elsewhere for $200, then politely wish them well and ask if they would mind putting a meeting in their diary for 6 months time to see how things are going.By all means warn them about the dangers of what they're about to do, but do not attempt to provide your quality service at the price of the scammers. Just because I can buy a second hand bicycle for $50 does not mean a Ducati Diavel is also worth $50.
my new favorite quote:
"We don’t believe most lies because of the skill of the liar.
We believe most lies because the liar tells us what we want to hear."
thank you dr. Pete!
Hi Pete,
I'm aware of a mainstream news outlet that recently labelled our industry as being a bunch of snake oil salesman, just as you mentioned in your opening paragraph. I was very pleased to see at least 2 prominent figures from within our industry rush to comment in order to try and correct what was a very mis-leading article and one of those 2 people even requested an apology from the publisher.
I do agree that all parties are to blame for the market in snake oil existing. Recently, I am finding more and more that I have no sympathy with the buyer. Although I've had a bellyful of bent SEO's, I've also had a bellyful of those who bought their services either knowing full well their SEO's were breaking all the rules or even possibly having encouraged them to do so.
It is a case of "buyer beware" and I think all novice buyers would do well to follow to your advice above.
In an ideal world ..
THEN you give a quote
and usually at this point of time they go , OH NOES .. that is a lot of money but I can get page one result in 6 months for $100 a month from " BLAH BLAH SEO " and off they go ...
Cheesy line perhaps but I quote Harvey Dent
You either die the hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain
Wait a minute Dr. Pete,
so, you're telling me that business owners have to take responsibility for themselves *gasp*... What is this world comeing to?
Absolutely love this post! There are so many of these guys out there, and clients really just aren't educated enough to spot them. It's a shame, really.
I think the fact there is no real barrier to entry for SEO, very little in terms of recgonised education (if any at all), very difficult to explain in a way CEO's of companies understand or care, difficult to guarantee results, which means even the best of us end up with some failures, constantly a moving target so you may tell clients a strategy is flavor of the month, only to tell them it's all different the next, difficult to maintain margins in the SMB market if doing "whitehat" things like content, and the fact you can go to some of the best SEO conferences around and some of the speakers there have been doing "SEO" for less than a year but are experts (I find that a little mind boggling and it happens quite a lot) all work against SEO in someway.
On the other hand, it's a pretty young industry and I am sure it will keep changing/growing up on a yearly basis, plus it's awesome when it's going right !!
Not offended at all here Pete. I've run into similar issues with clients and prospective clients not feeling like SEO services are all that worth it. Most of them have been burned to some degree in the past.
I've learned that the more relevant information I'm able to present them with the more likely they are to buy into the worth of SEO
Indeed there are too many SEO snake oils for sale on various platforms offering the ultimate SEO cure by SEO quacks.
I bought Iolo system mechanic for a year now.Quite effective in keeping my PC in good order.Is this a snake oil?
( Thinking of renewing it when it expires).All suggestions appreciated.
Thanks.
As always
Dan
PS. I am also using Glarysoft Utilities,Privager,Toolwiz Care,CCleaner,Malwarebytes etc etc free edition
Are they safe?
Boy that was good. One of the best blog posts I think I have ever read. I have to put a link to this on my blog.
Very true.
RE: "The Beginner’s Guide to SEO"
After all the recent updates Google did, the only and ultimate SEO guide is this:
Anyone know of a SEQ outfit that hired an Psychologist? Is there a list some where that shows buyers what they are supposed to get from a SEQ at what rate? Sort of like a going market rate that can have swings up and down? What about reselling the buyer hosting and infrastructure networking? Anyone doing that? I think SEQ is just like the MADMEN TV show where the niche needs to be played by actors. Good Salesmen. To me a good salesman are those who choose who they work for based on the buyers honesty and morality of the product they are selling. SEQ has an important part to play in this countries future where we compete with the International set of anything goes. When you can do it and put your name on it for years then run for president and have no baggage that would be a worthy effort. I like "Biggest Achievement in life is being true to yourself" and your profession should be added among other things. Just wanted to add a second to that. How is it possible to keep politics out of salesmanship when your talking to CEO s? Since politics only have winning in mind, IE the Corporation is a Person, how can truth be held to a standard. I always have one of those lie detector machines set up in the conference room before the meeting with SEQ and other salesmen. Oh and a box of tissues for sweat.
Interesting that snake oil comes from Hidden Valley, the same place much bogus SEO drives traffic. There ARE improvements one can make to a site for SEO, of course, but it's possible to DIY with a little (lot of) elbow grease and patience. If you don't know how to do at least a litte SEO yourself, how are you going to know if the firm you hire is doing its job?
It all goes back to being educated. Just because you have money to throw at a problem doesn't mean that there aren't shady individuals looking to prey on ignorance and cash. A simple search of SEO experts will reveal plenty of ads for hucksters making unfounded promises.
I think transparency (from the vendor's side of things) is one of the most valuable things in business. The part about being upfront about your methods and risks digs at the point: people truly respect blunt, upfront honesty.
Snake Oil is right. I was talking about this last night and was calling SEO companies Snake Oil Salesmen. I get phone calls all the time from SEO's promising First Place rankings for a monthly fee. Mostly for about $100 a month. If SEO was that easy then everyone would be doing it.
Interesting article...Pete and I have to agree. We all sometimes over promise way too much to our clients and end up being that snake man. Often times there are factors beyond our ability, including resources, time, and non-controllable factors that we just can't control.As SEODinosaur said "if you stick to honesty, it will pay itself", and that's true. Never over promise anything, be honest with clients and let them know every step of the way what you're doing. If you can offer training/teaching do it, your clients will be ever more appreciative for it.
Great post! I still hear clients and potential clients saying things like SEO is "gaming the system", or "tricking the search engines". It's like anything else...any other industry where there is rapid growth and constant changes...there are always people trying to get premium results on the cheap. In this industry, it's critical to do some research, and at least have a working knowledge of what questions to ask and have a plan. If an internet marketing professional doesn't take the time to talk with a website or business owner and educate them about how it works, their methods and how they apply (or don't!) to your business, they should simply run the other way. Thanks for a frank and clear analysis of a very murky topic!
SEO should be taken as on-going process. Moreover everyone involves in online business should know basic of SEO.
I like this line of your post:"I think an Agile approach (borrowed from the software development world) works well – do short, frequent check-ins, agree on some kind of documentation (like a shared document with link sources or tasks), and adjust as needed."Every work should be documented. If possible, please use a ticketing system like jira ( https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/overview ) or mantis (https://www.mantisbt.org). Even though they are software bug tracking system but I think they can be used to document SEO work. Another approach could be BDD style scenario writing. For Example:
@Scenario 1
Given googlebot comes to RunningShoe.co.uk
When it crawls home page
Then it should be find "UK best running shoe | RunningShoe" inside title tag
These kind of scenario writing will be helpful to document all SEO related work.
Interesting and much needed piece Dr. Pete!
I recently had a conversation with one of the potential client who was asking me for guarantee to bring results on the first page of Google and later he actually handed over a project to a person who offers him guaranteed services! (which is not me)
In the scenario above and in most cases I believe client is the one who should be blamed because they get attracted by the people selling snake oil… seriously!
Ideally client should read the basic guides so that… a) they can expect something achievable from the service provider and b) they can ask the right question from the service provider.
At the same time influencers and ethical service providers should come up with a quick guide that target current and to-be SEO clients and tell them what they should ask from the client and what they should expect against their investment in SEO services.
The reason snake oil exists is partly down to the lack of professional exams & governing body and recognition that, for example, any laywer or doctor has to achieve.
I have spent my whole career being asked whether what I do for a living actually works!
SEOs don't get any respect because too many agencies take on clients with a Ford family car budget and DUKE THE STATS to convince them they can win a Formula 1 race.
Every agency in Scotland has burned at least one big client and I know this because the client tells me about it when I talk to them. It's a worrying trend I see in the UK overall.
On top of that, CEOs and MDs have it drummed into them to keep costs low. Therefore, content budgets are always tiny compared to design, etc. Yet we need magnetic content to ensure we have a natural backlink growth profile.
Snake Oil? Unfortunately, the industry as a whole, reaps what it sows.
And does anyone here wish to debunk the merits of GoDaddy's SEO package?
Previously, if I had a U.S. client for a small project I would recommend GoDaddy for hosting. Not any more. Their upselling tactics make black hatters look trustworthy.
Hi Andrew,
I agree with you that the lack of any governing body makes the problem worse. Having said that, it doesn't cure all. I have a finance background and am a professionally qualified accountant but I have plenty of experience of qualified people still trying to cheat. Where's there's money, there's scum and often the scum rises to the top of the pool. Some will even lie about their qualifications.
https://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16227342
True but how often do accountants get asked does accountancy actually work?
I was going to use medicine as an example there but then thought better of it ;)
To be fair, though, do you see that in traditional advertising and marketing? Fortune 500 companies spend millions on ad agencies just because they've worked with them for a long time or someone else did or they have a connection. Their measurability and accountability are sometimes much worse than online marketing, and they often lose a fortune for their clients, but they maintain a mystique. I actually think we take an unfair beating at time because of our data and relative transparency. If SEO or PPC fails, you know it. I honestly don't think certification is the answer, at least not in the near future. I'm not opposed to it, but I just don't think it's a cure-all for any of this. These are growing pains we need to go through.
Great post! More clients need to hear or read things like this. I know some of my clients in the past have had snake oil salesman tell them lies. They ask me about their options and I tell them that like any business there are 'thieves and liars' and if they want to go with them they need to understand the consequences.
It sounds tacky to say but we sell relationships and trust. I know this business is filled with scammers so when we take on a client we work towards building trust and levels of understanding. Anyone that says they can get you to #1 should not be trusted. Of course, that is what we are trying to do but I never guarantee something I have little control over
I like the point 5 - "find out the risks- all SEO carries risks, no matter how white-hat it is". Let's say, it is similar to any surgery- all expertise, past experience, good intent and sound practices of the surgeon not withstanding, the patient could still die!
I think the issue here is a lot of people who hire SEO's don't want to pay for an SEO so they go with the cheaper guy who makes unrealistic promises then doesn't deliver causing a domino effect of bad information so when the company gets bigger and can afford to pay 5000+ a month for SEO services they think it's a scam and that is really what hurts us all.
I remember working for a black hatter that charged $3K a month it was a learning experience at most, but I did learn that you can't expect results for little pay because SEO is a lot of hands on work that involves talking to people and creating good content (good content I did not learn from Black Hatters that came later, but still) this is the case in my eyes and it's pretty sad, but also I think some small business owners need to wake up and realize digital marketing isn't "free" someone should be getting paid to do the work...yes the platforms you work on can be cheap, but my time isn't and that's also part of the frustration.
"Treat your vendor like they’re part of your in-house team – you don’t have to micro-manage, but you should demand accountability."
I think that's the best kind of relationship and SEO provider and client could have. This is a team effort! I can't do my job without your help, and you can't do SEO without mine.
I think this is a reflection of our discount, "throw away" culture. Many people want things quick and easy, without little true effort. And sadly, some snake oil tactics work, often for years.
Well, SEO is like consulting or like being a coach of a sports team. You can't guarantee results but you can guarantee you'll bill... always makes client relations tough and a tough industry to build relationships in. People have the same problems with lawyers too. Its a part of doing business I guess.
I think people like me are the reason that folks don't know what things should cost and what they should expect. I absolutely detest providing my contact information to any website that is afraid to tell me on the website exactly what to expect and exactly what those services cost. It's fine to tell me the price, have me agree to it and then set up a consultation. I do not want to be called and "sold," though. I don't have time for that kind of nonsense.
Regardless of whether you are sellling a product or a service, if you are afraid to show me up front what your prices are and describe them in a way that makes me want to buy them, I am highly suspicious and will almost never contact you. If you are asking me to spend money on content services that will persuade people to take some form of action but you cannot manage to do that on your own website, what am I supposed to think?
In the end, folks end up going to the crappy places because they are the only ones who will reveal their prices. It's the only price they know!
Hi Scott,
I get your message and partially agree with it. But not completly since my own site may look crappy to your eyes. Only prices for standardized reports...
Many SEO's, specially qualified individuals, explain and somehow show their skills and track on their sites just the way I do, decent portfolio with known names and brands, penguin-proof link profile for the advanced forensic customer ("I know what I'm looking for" kind of), Linkedin recoms, Xing recoms and so on. You can buy your weight in "Likes" and "+1's", but no one would recommend a liar in a pro network.
Introspective. I guess this no public pricelist is somehow a defensive reflex against those competitors looking for a reference, then charging far less than that reference. It is like the races, what happens when leading car brakes late? Second car blocks wheels... At least. Copycat competitors may get the job thanks to a fantastic quote, only for failing results when they cannot spend more time on that particular project because it doesn't pay the bills. Then they reinforce the Snake Oil legion...
Thanks for your thoughts, Scott!
It's interesting, but I found that, once I posted a couple of consulting packages, I got more leads for services NOT listed on my site. Putting a dollar amount and a structure out there helped people get what I did and trust me more, and that opened up conversations about custom work.
That's probably worth an A/B test with a spinned off site of mine :D
Thanks for sharing Dr., we humans are so weird ;-)
Well, I thank you all for at least considering my position. When all people see is $99 prices, it is not unreasonable for them to assume that is what all places charge. Then, they get burned by crappy links, bad results and, worse, punitive action by Google and they assume all companies are the same.The first guy lied to them and got them bad results. Once bitten, twice shy - especially for triple the price.
It's worth a shot offering up a few packages with prices and specifically stating why those plans that are triple the price or more than what "Sr. Cheapo" charges are better deals than the $99 train to Nadaville. If nothing else, it cuts down on time wasted talking to people who don't have a few Franklins to rub together.
Desperatly true! Please Mr. Customer: out of the queue, away from Snake Oil!
Want a quote? Here it is. Too expensive? Here is quote #2. Not yet? Wait, I'll get me an apple and step into the oven myself. Oh, thanks for hiring me Mr. Big-Biz-Small-Budget, bon appétit!
Does this sound familiar to you? Then you are as guilty as the Snake Oil dealer. You, honest and serious, you have to have a serious price, does Porsche offer big discounts for 911? No. That's why they are "the 911's".
Time to rescue this: https://www.seomoz.org/blog/6-reasons-you-need-to-charge-more (see 4, 5 & 6)
I was recently talking about Negative SEO and as an introduction mentioned my struggle (OUR struggle) from my very beginnings with burned customers trying to make me apologize for faults I never comitted.
It is a complex subject and I read "emotional" within Dr.Pete's lines. It is a hell of an emotional matter! Just 2 quick bullets (out of the many more you may think of)
I find a moment of relief when sitting at the meeting table and the question appears:
-"What guarantees do you offer for results?- My standard answer is:
-"My job is maximizing your probabilities of success rather than abusing your need for success"
Look, I'm no guru at all but know what? This statement plus a decent pro track bring bacon home.
Keep educating and chase the firestarters & snakes to their holes!
Suerte!
One of the best posts I've ever read on the matter.
The intro, while tackling a much broader topic, stands well on it's own too: greed begets greed.
Great write-up Pete.
The problem is you have people who have no experience in online marketing, they get a website up and running and start offering SEO services and start pushing sales to people offering the world, just to get the funds comming in. they offer crazy thing and when clients realise they are not ranking first for "Credit Card" just like they "Guaranteed" after 3 months of work for $399.95/month, the client is pissed they start posting every where that SEO is a scam ect ect.
Expectations need to be set straight from the start in my eyes, if you are running a business you need to be ethical, the sales pitch with guaranteed results is something which really annoys me, I mean Google even advises people not to trust these companie, I have been posting for ages about it example: https://jamesnorquay.com/australian-seo-companies-guaranteeing-results/ but companies keep pushing it.
In the end of the day big business is waking up to scammy SEO, they want ROI forecasting, they want to see the team working on the account in the pitch process and not the sales team, the people who get burnt are small business who are looking for a quick win at a low cost.
There is one discussion in SEOmoz group on LinkedIn. Here is the link
So many comments are telling the exact things which you have showed in example. This is really so sad for this industry. The players are gambling with clients and when client feels that he is fraud by the company then after client will not trust any company and understand all the companies just Snake oil salesman.
Thanks Dr.Pete! Such types of posts are really helpful to show to the clients.
Part of the problem is some clients are cheapskates. They want to rank for "credit card" and spend the equivalent of a cup of coffee to do so, and keep all the profits. Their thinking goes, I'll make loads of money this way, and "of course" the hired staff would be pleased rank and hand me all the profits for a token sum!
It never occurs to them that the if the SEO knows how to rank for the keyword, they also know the value of it, and anyone who could actually do so wouldn't sell out so cheap. The only ones who'll take that sort of job at such low rates are those people you've described who don't know what they are doing and therefore don't know the true price.
Its a great SEO help!!!!
Thanks Dr Pete.