There's a reason we use the terms "white hat" and "black hat" for SEO: it used to be the Wild West. Black hat tactics were so effective, they were almost necessary to market online. Paying a few thousand dollars to an SEO could get you to rank #1 for almost any term (before you let them go and your competitor paid them the same to outrank you). You only got a few thousand dollars in return for that ranking, though, since there weren't many people shopping online yet.
Fast forward to today: Ranking well on Google is insanely profitable—much more so than it ever was in the early days—and Google's algorithm has advanced dramatically. But former SEOs and people outside our industry still hold on to that idea that a few thousand dollars of "technical SEO" can make them magically rank #1.
So, how do you convince your old school clients things have changed?
The immediate answer
When this comes up in conversation, I have a few trump phrases that usually bring clients around:
- "Yeah, that used to be a great tactic, but now it puts you at risk for getting a penalty." (Really, any response that includes the word "penalty" stops clients in their tracks.)
- "That makes sense, but Matt Cutts said..." / "Good point, but Google's official blog recommends..."
- "I / another coworker / another client / a Mozzer has tried that, and it had disastrous results..."
Basically, acknowledge their idea as valid so you don't insult them, then explain why it won't work in a way that scares the shit out of them by mentioning real repercussions. Or, you know, just persuade them gently with logic.
If you can't persuade/scare the shit out of them, tell them you'll do some research and get back to them. Then do it.
If that doesn't work...
Okay, so you have answers for on-the-spot questions now. They will work anywhere from moderately well to amazingly well, depending on your delivery and the respect you've gained from your client. But the client may ask for more research, or be skeptical of your answer. To be really effective, the right answer has to be coupled with a lot of respect and a logical, well-delivered explanation.
Many of you are probably thinking, "I establish respect by being right / talking professionally / offering a lot of case studies during the sales process." That's the sort of thinking that doesn't earn respect. You gain respect by consistently being:
1. Respectful, even if your clients are wrong
It's embarrassing to be wrong. When your client says, "What meta keywords should we put on this page?" and you chuckle and say, "Gosh, meta keywords haven't been used in so long—I don't even think Google ever used them," your client is going to fight you on it, not because they're particularly invested in the idea of using meta keywords, but because you've made them feel wrong.
So when your client is wrong, start by validating their idea. Then, explain the right solution, not necessarily digging into why their solution is wrong:
Client: What meta keywords should we put on this page?
Answering like this will keep your conversations positive and your clients open to your ideas, even if your ideas conflict directly with theirs.
2. Honest
You're probably smart enough not to make up client anecdotes or lie about what Matt Cutts has said. Where I usually see dishonesty in consulting is when consultants screw up and their clients call them on it.
It looks bad to be wrong, especially when someone is paying you to be right. It's even worse to be caught in a lie or look dishonest. Here's my mantra: It's not wrong to make an honest mistake. When clients tell you you've done something wrong, consider it a misunderstanding. Explain where you were coming from and why you did what you did briefly, then fix it.
(Note: this obviously doesn't work if you made a stupid mistake. If you made a stupid mistake, apologize and offer to fix it, free of charge. It'll lose you some money up front, but it'll be worth it in the long run.)
3. Direct
This is the best outline for any answer:
- Brief answer, in one sentence
- Deeper explanation of answer
- Information to back it up
- Reiteration of brief answer
I can't tell you how many times I've heard another consultant (or myself) not be entirely sure of an answer and ramble on for a couple of minutes before stopping to complete silence from their client. Or know the answer but think it's too complicated and deliver an answer that only confuses their client more.
By starting with the answer, the client already knows what's coming, so all other information you give after that will naturally support your answer as you go, rather than possibly leading them down the wrong path. Consider these alternatives:
Standard answer:
Client: How much will this increase our rankings?
You: Competition is always a huge part of the equation, so we'll have to look into that. It's easier to rank for, say, "yellow sapphire necklaces" than "blue sapphire necklaces" because there are more blue sapphire necklaces out there. But this is definitely what we should do to increase our rankings.
Direct answer:
Client: How much will this increase our rankings?
You: I don't know, it's not something that we can definitively say in SEO, unfortunately. Competition is a huge part of the equation, so we'll have to look into that. But, regardless, this is the most effective action that we could take to increase our rankings.
The more direct answer admits doubt, but is still much more convincing in the end (though both are vague and obviously top-of-mind examples... just ignore that).
4. Complimentary and inclusive
It's called the Benjamin Franklin Effect: "He that has once done you a kindness will be more ready to do you another, than he whom you yourself have obliged." (Props to Rob Ousbey for telling me about this.)
When your client has done something right, compliment them on how they've made your job easier since you don't have to fix their mistakes. When your client has done something wrong, let them know what they should do to fix it, but help them share in the work to make the change. It'll make the client feel valued and it'll take a big part of the workload off of you.
5. Proactive
Good project management is the key to effective consulting. When clients don't know what you're working on, they get worried that you're wasting their money. Make sure that you consistently:
- Meet; I like to have scheduled meetings once a week
- Share a 3-6 month project plan, with dates and deliverables outlined
- Ship those deliverables on time
- Respond to emails within a day or two, even if the answer is "Great question! I'm prioritizing [other project for the same client right now], can I get back to you in a week or so?"
- Follow up with open questions; if a client asks you a question in a meeting you don't know, admit you don't know, say you'll get back to them after you research it, then actually do that
I think that project management is often dropped because it seems so easy that it's de-prioritized. Don't believe that: this may be the most important of the five traits I've listed.
To sum it up: be honest, selfless, and proactive, and your clients are going to love you.
Even if you're a terrible SEO (though try your best to be a good one), clients are going to respect consultants who put their clients' business first, are open and honest about what they're doing and thinking, and get their work done without being micromanaged.
Now that you've earned your client's respect, they will be open to you changing their mind. You just have to give them a reason to.
Nail it with a great argument
When a client says, "Can we rank for 'trucks' by putting the word 'truck' as the alt text to each image on this page?" our mind immediately says, "No, why would you think that?" That's not going to win the argument for you.
The reason we SEOs say "why would you think that?" is because we know the answer. So, teach your client. Start by validating their idea (what did we just learn about clients being wrong?), then explain the right answer, then explain why their answer won't work:
Client: Can we rank for "trucks" by putting the word "truck" as the alt text to each image on this page?
You: Well, that would certainly get "trucks" on the page more often! To really optimize the page for "trucks," though, we'll need to put it in the page title, and a few times in the body of the page. SEO is all about competition, and our competition is doing that. We have to at least match them. Once the page is optimized for "trucks," though, we'll still have to work to get more backlinks and mentions around the web to compete with Wikipedia, which ranks #1 right now for "trucks."
Don't focus too much on their mistake.The more time you spend on the disagreement, the more frustrated your client will get; the more time you spend on your solution, the more impressed they'll be with you.
If that doesn't work, do the research to tell an even better story:
- Give examples from other clients. Don't give away too many names, of course, but knowing that you've solved this problem or a problem like it in the past makes clients feel much more confident in you.
- If you've never seen this problem before, reach out to your SEO community. One of the best parts of working at Distilled is that when a client off-handedly emails me a question, I can email all Distilled consultants and usually get an answer (or at least an educated guess) within an hour or so. If you work on your own, build a community online, through Moz or another online portal, and ask them.
- Forecast the effects of your solution. I'll be the first to admit, I'm not good at this because it can take a long time. But if your client is resistant, it's definitely worth the trouble. Take clients through how you worked out the forecasting so they can see how much they'll gain by working with you.
Once you've got proof behind your argument, restate your position, add your new arguments, and then follow up with your position and what you recommend your client does now. Make sure that you end in an action so there's something concrete for them to focus on.
Practice, practice, practice delivery
You can have the perfect explanation and a great relationship with your client, but if you trip over your own words or confuse your client, you won't be convincing.
Written reports
Edit the paper multiple times. Only include the information that directly leads to an action item, don't include all of the information that they already know, or that just shows you did your homework. That stuff is boring, and will encourage your client to skim, which will often lead to misinterpretations. Next, have a friend who's been in SEO for awhile and knows about this old school stuff edit it. It's hard to know where your descriptions might break down without someone else's perspective.
Verbal presentations
Practice your presentation ahead of time: talk through your recommendations to a friend or coworker. Have them interrupt you, because you will definitely be interrupted when you're talking to your client. Make sure that you're okay with that, that you can have a separate conversation, then jump back in to the report.
For presentations that are brief and over the phone, make sure that you've already sent your client something written. If it's a report, make it clear and to the point (as described above), if it's not, outline the action items in an email or a spreadsheet, so your client has something concrete to look at as you discuss. I've also found clients are able to digest information much better when they've already read it.
For big presentations - the ones that need an accompanying PowerPoint, follow the same advice as I gave in the written report section: Edit to be succinct, and get feedback.
This is pretty much a post on good consulting
I've consulted clients on technical SEO, promotions / outreach, creative, and content strategy-based projects, and I've found that the key to being effective in every one is a) coming up with a good answer, and b) everything discussed in this post. Building respect and communicating effectively is the foundation that supports your answers in almost every relationship, consulting, in house, or even personal. The key to convincing your clients that their black hat, overly white hat, or completely UX-based solutions are wrong is all sort of the same.
So what do you think? What resistance have you come up against in your consulting projects? Share in the comments below!
Honest? What is «honest»? Aha ... now I remember it ...:-)
It is a great post Kristina. Thank you
A lot of what you explained here goes against how so many agencies and "SEO experts" run their business… everything is "proprietary know-how" for fear of "teaching [ourselves] out of a job." And that's exactly why I love this post so much. :)
I'm probably an over-sharer, or at least a 'teacher at heart,' but all of my best & most successful projects have been with clients that I have a respectful, trusting client/consultant relationship. They trust me to understand & do what's best for their business as a whole (not just for rankings) and I trust the client to recognize my value & stick with me long-term (even if I do teach them what many SEOs would not - although I think that also adds to the retention).
Helping the client understand how SEO works has never hurt a project or relationship & actually seems to make my life easier and the project more successful. I guess my thought is that is that being open & honest / educating the client on SEO allows me to focus on more advanced inbound marketing tactics that the client would never get to… you know, since they're also running the business on their end.
Really great post, Kristina!
I know! Although, I think that, as industries go, SEO is actually one of the best about sharing knowledge. We've had to learn from each other, so there's been some moral obligation to share, at least through blog posts. I spent the first two years of my career as an SEO reading Moz, Distilled, and Portent blog posts.
But, yes, being an over-sharer myself has probably been the aspect of my consulting that has built the most trust. It shows that my reasoning is solid, that I'm open and honest with them, and quite frankly, it usually proves that they can't do my job, rather than teaching myself out of one. It shows that I know a lot off the top of my head, while they would have to spend all that time researching things. :)
So, keep the good consulting up! It's consultants like you that build a good name for our industry.
This is all very true when it comes to SEO "experts" preying on people with a new website and no true SEO understanding. No need to take advantage of their ignorance because it's just not right. I hate those emails from India SEO guys saying that they conducted a thorough review of the site and can get me indexed to the top....Really???
from a client side point of view, honesty is the best policy. Especially as I am an active-ish member on here and other forums, and if i get a little feeling your not being honest I will dig around and try and get the proper solution - which then makes feel less confident in any future updates I get.
I would rather have, I don't know about this, let me do some research and I will come back to you, than an on the spot lie / made up to sound like you know everything.
Cheers to you for staying proactive Andy, and good to know "I don't know, let me research with my team and get back to you" is better than making up an answer to try to sound like an expert. It can be a tough line to navigate when us SEO providers always want to sound like experts who know it all.
Thanks for the blog Kristina, its very interesting to get this perspective.
Maybe its just me but a some of your example Q & A's come off as quite patronizing for example:
Client: Can we rank for "trucks" by putting the word "truck" as the alt text to each image on this page?
You: Well, that would certainly get "trucks" on the page more often!
I completely agree with your points about being honest and putting the clients business first though, most people don't expect you to be particularly invested in their company, however a strong understanding around the business, rather than just its SEO requirements, will make your life significantly easier when it comes to planning actions beyond the obvious.
Yeah...when you want to start a conversation off on the right foot by validating that their idea has some merit, it can get kind of condescending. I won't lie and say that's never been a problem for me. But I wanted to show the strongest examples, and what I'd say. The key is in your tone, I think.
I think one of the biggest barriers, especially with Small Business clients who have been burned by black hat SEO's in the past, is to get them to feel like you are on their side. You have to make them feel like you are part of THEIR marketing team and you only win when they win. Many of these clients believe that you are in it just to make money off of them but once you get them to buy in to the fact that you can only continue being profitable if THEY are being profitable then they have a much higher trust in you (and much higher retention rates!).
Agreed! People are much more open to new ideas if they feel secure that you have the same end goals in mind.
I think I need to read this weekly. I am constantly struggling with people who hire me to do modern, safe SEO & inbound marketing, but still expect me to follow through on the promises their previous old school spam providers made.
I don't like using the penalty scare tactics, but it does work.
One thing that helps is when I cite trustworthy sources when going into the detailed explanation - especially when it requires a lot of detail. When a client does not believe something, a few Artie's from Moz, SEL, or Google itself help to back up ideas that may not fit what the client had been repeatedly told in the past. And it could help steer clients to more accurate sources of info when they start looking things up on their own.
"I think I need to read this weekly." - Wow, what a great compliment! I'm glad it's raised some helpful pointers for you.
Yup, scaring clients with penalties is a little mean, but it works. And after awhile, they'll start to trust you more and it'll be less necessary.
And, yes, citing trustworthy sources is a great move!
Hi Kristina, love the 'trump phrases' - the P word definitely works!
We actually have a different problem - these days some clients are so paranoid that they rarely get on board with any ideas without us having to persuade them that it won't result in a penalty.
Many are turning into conspiracy theorists and the hardest part of account management is convincing people that their paranoia is unfounded.
Yeah, that's true. I usually argue that the majority of Google's penalties don't touch anything that would be a good idea if SEO weren't a thing.
So, links purchased and buried in the sidebar or footer, obviously no value for marketing if not for SEO. But links from reputable bloggers reviewing your product are just a good marketing move - they may ignore those links, but they probably won't penalize you for them (and, Matt Cutts has said as much, which you can link to).
It's not just clients who think black-hat SEO still works, previous employment companies I used to work for had the very same thinking that this still works, but search engines are getting very clever in the way they work, which makes old-school techniques redundant that much it usually turns bad.
This is a normal situation. A lot of clients are not ready to new technologies, and their business too. So, they don`t know what is SEO. We try to explain them what is SEO, and do our SEO work, a double job. It's hard, yes, but it's really.
I enjoyed this post Kristina! I especially liked your communication tactics - it is so important to make people feel like you are listening to their ideas/them, but simultaneously protect them from their own ideas. In my experience, the education actually has to start during the sales process with new clients to be super-effective. I won't take on the client unless I determine we are aligned appropriately during the sales process. Otherwise, too much effort is focused on buy-in rather than results. Great post!
Yep, I totally agree. Setting up the proper relationship - you as the expert and your client respectful and willing to learn - can make or break a project. A lot of people will argue that they'll lose sales by not pandering during the sales process, and that's true, but those clients would have been demanding and not in it for the long run.
Unfortunately a pedant client, it shows too often. They think they know everything and yet whenever there is a problem they look to you for solutions ...
Kristina, thank you for this Zen approach!
Interesting, some articles that I have read on this subject are not so complete, but this post has helped me a lot, thanks for the information you have given us
But what about the questions like do whatever you want but give me traffic and ranking that's all i want.
Those questions should be an online marketer's dream! They're letting you take the lead, set the objectives and make the rules. The only issue is if a) they don't want to pay you enough for this, or b) when they say "do whatever you want" they mean "do something magical without actually changing my site."
Both of these should be addressed this in the sales process. Take the time while selling a project to clearly outline the goals, the role they'll need to play, and how much you're going to need to achieve those goals. Don't take on projects where clients won't pay enough or won't let you change their sites. I know it feels like you're giving up your income, but you can't succeed with projects like that, which is a waste of your time and theirs.
Good luck!
I really liked your suggestion specially "Don't take on projects where clients won't pay enough". :)
The way to achieve the best search engine rankings has dramatically changed over the years. As Kristina Kledzik points out, many business owners don't understand the new changes and still have that same old-school thinking. Kledzik does a brilliant job with different scenarios of explaining this to clients. One example is to be respectful when your clients are wrong by showing how Google ranks pages differently. Another way is to be more direct with your clients, because honesty is always the best policy. Another way is to be proactive and to include them in the process. The key is to simply give great, analytical examples to back up your theories to clients. One major point that should be emphasized is to continually educate your clients about Search Engine Optimization during this entire process so that you are on the same page.
awsome post
great post!
Great advice. I appreciate the advice to help us all grow our businesses and to build up the industry.
Great stuff. Particularly item #5. As an SEO company that prides itself on high-quality service and tries to distinguish itself from black hat SEO providers, I sent out that section to my team to remind them of the principles we stand for. Hopefully they always refer back to them!
I agree, but I put it at the end because I think most people respond to it with a, "duh." Still, it's what's forgotten the most. Glad to be able to give some guidance to your team!
Always tough when your new client is use to old outdated SEO tactics. I often use a few of my clients who've received manual penalties due to old SEO tactics and express why they have came to work to me. Most business owners are in it for the long term and if you have any sort of reputation they will listen. Solid Article.
Glad you liked the article!
You raised a good point: having a solid reputation helps a lot. Make sure you participate in forums like this and speak at conferences or work for a company that has representatives speaking at conferences. As much as these tactics help, working at Distilled sets the foundation for me.
Honesty is the best policy ;o)
You make great points. As much explanation (and evidence) that supports your claim is best. Usually if you send them to a blog post written by an expert on the topic (especially Matt Cutts), they'll back right off.
Matt Cutts is an SEO's trump card. ;)
Practice a lot and for different scenarios. It's a must!
Some old school clients are tricky as hell! Sometimes they can goad you to answer something else and connect it around to another topic, ending up misunderstanding you (and blaming you if anything goes differently from what they thought)
Cool post Kristina! :)
Yup, that's a whole other level I didn't get into: when clients misunderstand, whether on purpose or not. My advice is:
Both of these tactics take a lot of practice to perfect (I can still get lost in conversations that get fast paced and tricky), but handling these situations makes you a really excellent consultant.
Thanks for a great post, I think this goes wayyy beyond SEO. Every facet of Internet marketing is changing very quickly. For instance slideshows are not a great way to convert visitors into leads yet many business owners still want them on their sites. This can be applied to all aspects of marketing for clients that are simply out dated in their knowledge of current best practices for SEO, PPC, Web Design, and anything else in the industry you may be providing.
Thanks a lot for this valuable insights!
Great learning material for a newbie like me!
Great post, Kristina! Yes, convincing old-school clients about the potential dangers of outdated SEO techniques can be really hard. A client of mine often asks me on the stagnant PageRank, which I have absolutely no answers for. Sometimes clients look for exact metrics from your online marketing efforts in order to justify their investment. In reality, it can be really really tough to bring them home on a couple of points that they have learned over the times. In my personal experience, in consulting business, better communication skills stand you in good stead more often than not.
True! In situations like this, I like to ask myself, why are they holding on to PageRank? Probably because they want a metric that gives them an idea of how much Google values their page. So, explain to them why PageValue is meaningless and they want to use Page Authority, and use that in your reports.
As seo is a complicated subject and it changes frequently,seo companies should teach their clients accordingly to overcome knowledge gap.nice post ! It gives idea about common queries raised by clients and how to takle with them.
Wow Kristina, these are great tips!! This is what I use to name "social engineering" :-) Sometimes a great work is to know your client to do the job. Thanks!
Good post Kristina. Yes, we all have been there; trying hard to make the client understand that what he mentions is long lost. I usually overcome this by putting client's business first. Rather than using words like ranking, traffic etc., I use business goals, revenue, return on investment, conversion rate etc which directly makes an emotional impact in the client. And I always work on improving these.
Great move! I've always been told by better consultants at Distilled that I should do that, although I often find myself relying on metrics that I'm comfortable with. Way to be one step ahead!