For the first time since launch, I've been receiving some negative feedback on certain blog entries, not just from newcomers to the site, but from long-time readers and respected search industry folks. Since the primary purpose of this blog is to provide a hub of information, sharing, news and, on occassion, humor for the SEO community, I thought it wise to ask for an entire thread devoted to:
- Thoughts on what SEOmoz is missing or what you'd like to see
- Constructive criticism for myself and the other writers
- Straight negative feedback with no punches pulled
In the comments here, feel free to be harsh, honest and unabashed. A good ranting (in the right place) never hurt anyone.
For the writers at the blog (myself included), I'd ask you not to take offense at anything you see below or feel compelled to defend or respond (unless it's something you want clarified or are asking for help with, examples, etc.). As always, thanks for the feedback - we take it to heart and it really does make the blog a better place.
UPDATE: One thing we have done, by popular request, is remove the advertising on SEOmoz. We'll think about monetization in the future.
Rand - I believe I know why you've recently received some negative feedback. My mates and I here were just talking about your blog this past week. Since you've requested candor and bluntness, I'll be quick.
- Post on 20 interview questions. Congrats on the Digg, but the comments there turned us off considerably. Personal attacks between your staff and writers on the blog and others had been avoided until now. sad to see. The attacks seem to continue in the next post.
- Guillaume, your new author, does not appear to have a good grasp of English. His writing quality doesn't match that of the rest of the blog. Also, his latest post appears entirely selfish, and while many readers arre probably happy to contribute to your personal projects, this writer does not have the background to make these requests.
- True Search Marketing tips have fallen off of late. While I've enjoyed many of the less focused posts, I imagine that many have not.
- Mr. Martinez's posts, while on ocassion excellent, are sometimes quite difficult to follow. This one uses terms I've never heard before in the industry, a glossary must be provided in such cases.
- The tools are how I initially found this site and I think many folks are chaffing to have the ability to use them again. While it is not duty for you to provide, there should not be continued missed dates and expectations (I've emailed several times on this matter). Simply let us know when they will be available or that you are terminating.
These are all the items I and others here discussed. Hope that is helpful to you.
Obviously, this is a great blog/site, and we read daily. Keep up the solid work.
Thanks for your feedback. I will try to double check my english with a corrector before posting any other blog entries. As you may have noticed, English is not my first language. That being said, I will challenge myself to get better writing skills.
As for my last post, I wasn't even sure myself if it would be of general interest. I really have no personal intention in mind, it was really targeted to benefit the community. Our company offers a similar blog that resemble SEOmoz (in French) and we offer free tips, insights and advices, and I was trying to offer a walkthrough for a typical project so that it could benefit businesses or consultants who are in the same field of expertise. Gregory, I'd be glad to have a chat with you on how this could serve the community, not my personal needs, as this is more of an "open-source, open to ideas" project.
But I take those two feebacks very seriously and will try to address it with Rand and the rest of the authors the best I can.
Thanks for the constructive feedback.
An excellent list, Gregory - thank you. I'd love to see more like this.
Gregory - great feedback. I pretty much agree 100% with almost every one of your complaints.
The only thing I'd like to mention is that the argument in the Mac vs PC post was all done in fun. It's not a continuation of the argument that happened in the interview questions post, we're just having fun with each other in this one.
A valid point has to do with information density in a thread. One of the reasons that I have enjoyed reading here is that forums fill up with chit-chat, arguments, and bulloney. That does not yeild a good return on your reading time. So, if we keep the bull to a minimum the visitors will get higher ROI.
A bit more SEO and a bit less Web 2.0. But, the blog still rocks!!!
And, keep Mike around...his information is great...I give him a lot of credit for trying to explain challenging concepts to the public.
I like the broader focus, because the Web 2.0 and social media should be part of everyone's toolkit these days. If you are doing SEO and SEM you shouldn't overlook these natural traffic drivers.
Hi, the blogs are great, wouldn't change them. Michael's posts can be hard to understand but if you want a choice of easy articles then the forum's are generally a good place to go. Having someone who says something different must be good. What was the old quote about progress only comes through unreasonable thinking ( to paraphrase). Also when i can write as well in French as Guillaume can in English then i will tell him to improve his English. So guess thats my twopence worth and will be quiet for another 12 months now.
Thanks Colin! I will work hard on my major flaws. I wasn't pasting in word to get the basic corrections, which I will. If it still stays hard to get, I'll have someone doublecheck my work.
Thanks for your 2cents
M - hehe you spammer! ;)
Rand .... my young-bearded fellow marketer. ;-)
If you hadn't wrote this post, I wouldn't even know that someone was saying anything negative about you. Does this mean I am not "out there?" Strange, I subscribe to 25+ SEO blogs and 20+ newsletters.
Anyway...
Your blog is the 2nd one I visit every day. Maybe it's because I saw you speak at the SES NYC ... but the point is ... I like it. I read it almost every day. I think this post will help your blog become even better, BUT you'll always have people loving what you do a hating it as well ..... and it's great.
If people do not hate or love what you do then they simply "don't care", and that's the worst thing that could happen to your work.
Good Luck.
Igor M.
It is a terrific blog...and interesting that you are willing to post many different topics here.
The fact that there are negative comments is healthy. Readership has increased and gotten more widespread. Your comments include various negative points. That is healthy. Disagreement is a way to learn.
I don't have the time to read everything in depth. If I don't agree...I don't agree.
Advertise. Why not. It's your blog. You also have a business to support. On top of that business you open this blog up for fascinating discussion and an ever growing readership from wider areas.
More power to you Rand. Not only have you learned an enormous amount of relevant and powerful methods with regard to SEO, you have been willing to share it.
Very few of us would go to the lengths that you do.
Dave
I do not read any blog long enough to form an opinion.
But yeah, long posts that look like they were written to win the keyword game are a little tiring on the eyes of those of us with ADD. Sometimes minimal is better or your start sounding like some sort of strange, SEO evangelist...
AND Rand using words that he must of had to look up is a little silly, come on Rand, we know you are a smart guy, don't turn into a wordsmith on us cuz with the yellow boots and an increased vocabulary, people might start thinking, well you know... ;)
Thank you!
I just want to state that I enjoy what Mike writes and am just ripping sh*t up a little cuz I am bored,,, and I can.
High Quality Links #1 Google
Google also likes Mike!
;)
No beef here.
Ideally I don't want to spend more than 5 minutes a day reading Seomoz.
I used to be a regular reader of WMW but far too much noise on the line with threads of 100s of messages which take hours to read and lead nowhere. I really don’t care if one dc has slightly different results or if there's cappuccino this morning.
Less is definitely more. I can easily catch up if I get tied up or miss a day or two. About 500 words a day is my limit.
Diversity.
That's what I like and find in your blog. Sure there are some articles that don't interest me or are too difficult to truely comprehense, but overall it's a great blog. Actually, they MAKE it a great blog. Diversity.
Just don't loose the main focus on SEO, that at least is my main reason for reading it.
As long as the site's in the public eye there will always be some negative feedback. I don't think it's a major issue by any means :)
You have a great Blog. I visit almost daily.
The only bit of constructive criticism would be on monetizing the site traffic. I can see that you have removed the ads that were there but I believe some ads would actually help the visitor like myself as long as they are things you personally use or indorse.
(IMO) You just need to feel comfortable with your endorsements and separate the paid links or disclose the affiliate link or relationship if you work it into an article or write about what a great guy Greg at BOTW is. As long as it’s understood that you are an affiliate because you believe in the product and not the other way around, I think it’s great.
You can place Amazon links to books that you have read and truly believe they are worth the purchase price. SEO book also has an affiliate program. I don’t know if you have read the book or would indorse it. (Just a thought.) I’ve spent about $1000 at MarketingSherpa. Their affiliate program might be worth looking at. Text Link Ads and BOTW have affiliate programs. Commission Junction does an affiliate program for Yahoo! Search Marketing and I think Google has something similar for sending new referrals who sign up with an account. I believe Chitika and AdBrite also have programs. All these programs seem relevant to me anyway. AdSence is also an obvious way to get a few a few bucks.
I would also be interested in the other blogs that your authors read. Even the official Google Blog has a list of links to what they’re reading.
(IMO) An occasional “Cat Post” is nice once and a while. For example… You could take a vacation to Hawaii and post about what a great time you had. That's about 1/2 of the reason why I read Matt Cuts & Jim Boykin’s Blog. I love Jim’s “Crazy Ideas”. It would be nice to know that you folks get out once and a while, buy a new toy and have some fun.
Thanks for asking for feedback. It shows you care. Aloha, Dave.
This is one of the better blogs, partly because it reaches out to related industries and has no blinders on.
The skill levels of the readership run from beginner to advanced. One usability point is that the reader can't tell from a feed or beginning of a post what level the post addresses. Some SEO's may only want SEO, while other SEO's have additional skills that they use with their clients, such as marketing, design and usability testing. Your own company is not limited to just SEO, so why should your blog hold back?
Your blog writers also have various skill levels and different backgrounds. After awhile of reading, members can tell what author writes to their level of skill or interests and can skip over what they're not ready for or interested in.
Comments and ads are part of blogging. They go with the territory. Censoring comments becomes a forums' type of activitiy and well, we have forums for that. The line is getting blurred, esp. when you try to generate a community, as this blog does. It is unique for this and a pioneer.
Ads? You have every right to find ways to financially support this blog, and pay your authors if that would be your wish. Perhaps donations are an alternative.
This blog continues to be interesting and thought provoking. For me, that's the makings of a "real" blog.
Rand:
Total up the comments and the contacts re: the blog.
Total the negative comments. Divide the negative comments by the total. If it is miniscule don't worry about it. Your readership is growing. Don't expect to please everyone all the time.
If negative comments are consistent with regard to any particular issues or points then look at those points.
Your doing a great job. BTW; I like reading Michael's stuff. We have interacted on some of the issues. Michael presents a healthy alternative way at looking at some of the issues that are addressed. There are many ways to skin a cat.
Dave
I really like this blog.
The one thing I'd ask for is better formatting in the RSS feed.
Thanks.
seomoz is the first site i visit every morning when i get to the office. What i really like is, that there is always atleast(!) one update ever single day.
But as said before, less web2.0 and more seo would be good.
Specially when web2.0 is usually just about remakes of webapps from the 90s with a trendy design and the word social on top of it.
More marketing Rand, else this is good stuff! :)
My biggest bitch is I don't always know who wrote the post! Add some icons up there instead of just the tiny lettering denoting the author.
And I agree with Jeremy - Michaels posts, while informative, do drag on sometimes. As Wit says "less is more".
And I like the 2.0 stuff. I like that you cover realted topics like usability in addition to tactics. I say keep going on that!
I'd like to see more from Geoffrey and Kat as well. I like their perspectives. You've assembled some brilliant and diverse writers Rand (you did write this one, right?) keep it up!
rmccarley, I agree with those writer avatars. I've suggested the issue to rand 2-3 times, so we'll just have to wait... Personally I always try to attach "Seomoz feat.2k" image in my posts to overcome who-wrote-that-problems. I think that other writers could also start doing similar activity.
...and while on topic "suggestions waiting to get implemented"... A public "search by author" or "10 recent posts by this member..." is something I'm still hoping to get implemented. Especially since I write mainly multipart series (like The Project), it would make linking to earlier parts way more easier both me and readers... And the search... my nick is 2 letters => "No results "2k", is too short a word and was ignored." lol .
I added the blogger's avatar to the top of the post. Hopefully this makes it a bit more obvious who wrote it.
Are you confused because you don't know whose screen names are what (i.e. "Oatmeal" = Matt), or because there's no accompanying avatar along with the author's name (i.e. "Homer" avatar = Rebecca)?
I meant avatars. Thanks Matt - that's an improvement. It gets confusing sometimes because I do everything ata glance until I see something to dig into.
I like a "diverse focus" that includes a touch of SEO, analytics, news, marketing, development. I like a blog that helps me be a better webmaster - not just provide ideas on SEO or another single topic.
I know I need to expand my reading list, but your blog and Kim's usability blog are the only ones I read. I can't believe anyone would say anything negative about your blog. Your blog is a service, not shoved down anyone's throat. Some posts I read every word, some I just skim. They're all great. After reading the back and forth between SEOmoz staff members on the Mac vs. PC post, I wanted to join your team, too, just to get in on the fun you guys seem to have. (Only kidding, I love being a work at home mom here in NY). Your posts are witty and whimsical, humorous, insightful, informative, cutting-edge. What's to complain about?
Michael Martinez, You run on and on and on and on and on with your posts. Then you throw in big words that I have to look up (half of the time I think you make them up) Your posts are good, just a tad bit longer than I want to read for a blog.
Personally I would like to see a tighter focus to *old school* SEO & SEM issues, and leave *other stuff* (like web2.0) to other blogs.
I've heard a few private comments that relate to focus - thanks, Keijo.
Please don't drop the Web 2.0 stuff. This is the only blog that I read daily. I will bounce to some other blogs on a weekly basis, but I try to never miss this one (its what I read while eating my lunch at work). Although this site was started as a SEO blog, I think its evolved beyond that, and its obviously doing really well.
Well, Ive been following the blog for a while, and I find it to be hugely valuable, both in the posts, and the comments of many who frequent the place.
I'm no SEO person, my day job is designing and developing, heck I don't even offer SEO services to client.
Having said that, what I've learned from yourself and your team, both here and in the contributions you've made over the years to various SEO forums, has been invaluable in shaping the way my company now develops web sites for our clients.
Its also given me the ability to propel my one and only 'side project' to top 5 positions for some of the most competitive terms in the wedding industry, which is a welcome bonus! : )
For all these reasons, I thank you - its rare to find a company (or individual) that is so open and willing to share its knowledge with others. Its a philosophy I live by (not that I'm smart enough to have that much to share!) and I hope you continue.
I've not read enough of the comments to see much in the way of negative feedback, but if its there, I find it hard to believe its overly deserved.
Sorry for the long comment - but I think you deserve nothing but praise for what you've created here.
So there.
Ben
Huh...I've tried hard to come up with some negative feedback, or even constructive criticism, but I honestly can't think of anything to say. Frankly, I think seomoz is the best seo blog out there (mine included). Is every single post the best post out there? Well, no, of course not, but taken as a whole, it outshines all the rest, imo. I don't know, Rand. I'd give negative feedback if I could, but I just can't think of a single bad thing to say.
I don't have any negative feedback, just a little note, as times goes this blog is less about true SEO then before, its more about web 2.0, social networking, marketing, web design, usability and all other non SEO stuff...
web 2,0, social networking, usability, etc are all parts of SEO and should be taken very seriously if you plan on keeping pace in the industry.
No, its not :)
it's unfortunate you can't see the big picture.
I'm with Cameron on this. Though not strictly 'SEO', these thing are integral to 'SEM'. SEO/SEM are terms that have become very blurred in the past year and are oft used interchangeably. They are also more often used to term someone is is more generally an 'Online Marketer'. Any online marketer who shoes themselves into the box of exclusively chasing organic listings in the engines is leaving a lot of money on the table. They may find much success in their careers but... There is much more to success on the web than being #1 for a term. Varied traffic sources, conversion rates, and usability are essential components of successful SEO/SEM/Online Marketing.
I love the big picture of SEOmoz and new trends spotted here. I will agree that some posts are too scientific for my personal liking and that some posts are just silly. But with a half dozen new posts a day I don't have time to read them all anyway. (BTW: I love the silly posts! The wee me I made of my girlfriend earned many brownie points and the stumbleupon toolbar is great fun.)
Perhaps SEO fits into Web 2.0 more than Web 2.0 fits in to SEO, but regardless, it's certainly the responsibility of the SEO community (or any SEO firm) to keep up with the market trends. With blogs, RSS, AJAX, design, UGC (User-Gen Content), et al becoming such a big part of an SEO's responsibilities, I think there's some overlap, but it's good to hear what you think about the overall value of the posts.
I agree with rand that keeping an eye with technologies is a good thing. However, I also agree with bruno that current web20 posts are missing the edge big time.
IMO most of the web20 posts have been just showcases of new sites/services without ever going deeper on how they affect on SEO of that site and/or how those services utilize serps from major players. How much do we know about accumulation of backlinks, how search engines value web20 content etc. questions.
So web20 posts can be good and interesting topic, but IMO they need to be re-focused to cover SEO topics/views.
About that im talking :)
that I will agree with :)
I don't think its bad idea, im just saying sometimes is just to much of general post about that :)
My only negative reaction to this blog was when I read the EXCELLENT post on interviewing a developer, but then started to read all the off topic comments that followed. Perhaps those should have been split off to it's own thread?
I loved the interview questions as we've put up some ads to hire someone and Rand's questions will come in handy. I was going to post that in the comments section of that thread (and I still may have...I forget now) but with all the off topic stuff, the comment surely would be lost.
Other than that, I just check the feed now and then and pop over when something sounds interesting.
MM's posts don't bother me because he's a frequent poster at my forum and I have a good understanding of what he's all about and where he's coming from these days. (Michael is kinda like broccoli...he's an acquired taste!)
Jill - I'm glad you enjoyed my post on the interview questions.
I agree about all the off topic comments, the "martinez vs the entire internet" tables/css debate wasn't particularly valuable or informative. The page size itself was up to 260k, making it not very practical to link to.
For now I've hidden the comments on that post. If a user wants to see the comments there's a link directly below the blog entry that allows them to do so.
Rand, I've come back to this entry several times today and it's apparent that you're not going to keep everyone happy nor should you even be concerned about it.
I would urge you and your bloggers to continue writing about subjects that you each find interesting. Right now you have an good mix of news, seo, sem, web 2.0, linkbaiting, along with many more subjects and it's that diversity that brings me back.
- If I'm looking for minute by minute coverage of an SES show that I can't make, Barry at SEROUNDTABLE is the 'go to' guy. He and his team provide a fantastic service.
- If I'm looking for some early morning board coverage I'll take a peek at TW and see if I can decipher something DaveN has typed up. (Believe it or not I can understand him better is person but that might have something to do with gin and tonics).
- If I'm looking for tin foil hat theories and frantic misinformation I head over to WMW because it always leaves me wondering what some people are thinking. :)
But if I'm looking for some thought provoking articles about a variety of topics that I'll encounter in any given day, I come here because your site always delivers something that I end up mulling over in my head throughout the day and it often generates more ideas that I usually act upon.
To anyone who thinks that this blog should change, I'd urge them to look at the index page of this site. Look at the topics that are listed. Look at the services that are listed. Why would anyone expect this sites blog to not reflect the same diverse offering?
Don't worry, we're not trying to please everyone. We're really seeking to find those elements that annoy, upset or distract a majority of members.
As that diagram from my post on Friday showed - you need some love and some hate. It's when folks start getting dispassionate that you lose out.
I've been reading this blog for about the last 8 months and I've found it to be nothing but informative. You set out to create an information hub and you've created exactly that. Your content is fresh and updated daily. It's always a good read, no complaints from me.
Hey Rand, I personally started reading your blog because of the tips and advice on concrete. As many others, I don't hang around forums because I am really conscious of my time's ROI. I consider reading your blog and others (I read about a dozen daily blogs) a business expense for which I need to account. Time is the second most expensive asset in this line of business. The only surpassing its value is knowledge. Thus I only invest my time where I consider that the flow of knowledge justifies the time invested. I have found myself doing a lot of skim reading lately and the reason is that the level of technical resource being offered to the reader wasn't just there the in the same quantity and quality as it used to be (then again, this could be just my very skewed perception.)
I am personally very grateful for the great deal of effort and time you and your team puts into this project and I consider you personally responsible for a great deal of personal and professional growth that I have gone through during the last months. And I am sure that many readers can empathise with these words.
During the last couple months though I noticed a slight shift in direction. The 2.0 awards and a lot of the posts were too much on the dark side of the link bait pendulum to my taste. Not that I have ANY problems with linkbaiting or even with dabbling in the dark sort of techniques (and black and blacker I'll wear my hat and be proud of) BUT it's not a linkbaiting hub where I'd be willing to invest my professional education time.
I want to finish this comment saying that Michael Martinez is a great and very generous writer and during this last period it's been HIS posts the only ones that kept the level of critical thinking, information density and technical advice that I look forward to find in seomoz. I believe that he is aware that his writing style is not as concise and to the point as it could be, but to me that adds to the flair and unique style of his and doesn't jeopardize the quality of his posts.
I hope these views are helpful to you and to your team Rand. I really have no problems at all with you monetizing the site in any way or manner. I would just like to go back 3 or 4 months and hear you talk about SEO.
No complaints, just a usability suggestion: Something that confused me initially was that when you hover over 'Add Comment', it doesn't act like click-able text, till you click it.
I agreee you should put the advertising back. For the work you put in and other people on your team who post they should be rewarded directly for their efforts.
That's an IE issue I couldn't find a workaround for. :(
Have you tried...
.add_comment { cursor: pointer; }
Hey that worked. I remember trying that when I built the site but only applying it to .add_comment:hover
Apparently adding it to .add_comment did the trick
Hey anytime! Now at least there is one less issue to be sorted out! 8)
1. Put the advertising back. This is ridiculous. People who frequent this forum are in the search engine optimization business. It is our job to put commerical entities at the top of the SERPs. If you have a problem with commercialism on the web, you are in the wrong industry. Making a blog like this self-sufficient is completely ethical and far better than a subscription system. SEOMoz isn't a charity.
2. Don't Come to Conclusions. The only thing that has consistently frustrated me in posts is the inability to separate law from theory. Just be careful in the way you phrase posts. For example, don't use the word "must" unless you have checked every possibility available and ruled them all out aside from this 1 particular cause. Accuracy is the one thing you should expect out of any blog. Otherwise, be willing to show that you aren't certain. I would rather hear an interesting theory than an incorrect law.
3. Keep Spreading the Love I can't tell you how cool it was to see my name (and my company's) in one of your posts. You really showed PERFECT blog etiquette in being willing to list the poster's name and company in the title of the blog. My posts at thegooglecache have been picked up by seomoz, seobook and seoblackhat, and a lot of others, but only 1 used my name and company in the title. Kudos. That alone turned me from a "Rand is just another talking head in the SEO world" to "Rand really gets it"
Very good input, thanks. Regarding the ads - the CTR and value advertisers felt was very low. Perhaps, once the blog traffic reaches major blog levels (10,000+ uniques per day), we'll think about outside advertisers again and approach folks we feel would be appropriate. We're also considering separate ways of monetization.
i think your blog is awesome. :)
>like broccoli
you are too kind Jill.
I always get annoyed when Mike says "this post is not about topic x" on a post where he states "search engines do not use x" as part of the post.
Also I agree that his post length probably drives more than a few readers away, although I do think some of his ideas are pretty sharp.